On today’s episode of Behind the Brush, Beth is joined by legendary Gold Coast-based artist, Fernando Hervas. Having worked as a makeup artist for over twelve years, Fernando has done everything from bridal to shoots, created an amazing product line with Silk Oil of Morocco and worked with celebrities including Abbie Chatfield, The Veronicas and DJ Tigerlily.
Listen as Fernando shares with Beth how he built his high profile clientele, lost & rebuilt his entire Instagram presence and why working in retail might be your best way to crack into this amazing industry.
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On today’s episode of Behind the Brush, Beth is joined by legendary Gold Coast-based artist, Fernando Hervas. Having worked as a makeup artist for over twelve years, Fernando has done everything from bridal to shoots, created an amazing product line with Silk Oil of Morocco and worked with celebrities including Abbie Chatfield, The Veronicas and DJ Tigerlily.
Listen as Fernando shares with Beth how he built his high profile clientele, lost & rebuilt his entire Instagram presence and why working in retail might be your best way to crack into this amazing industry.
Episode resources:
If you enjoyed this episode then please either:
This is Behind The Brush by Saint Jack. If you're not a good listener, I don't think you're, this industry is good for you. You don't have to be the best makeup artist. You don't have to be the worst either. You just have to be use, find a makeup style that you like. I guess when we all start, we want, we try every single style to be up there, but then you fall into a niche of, you know, your bronzy gls or your smokey eye looks, or your cut crease look. So yeah, I definitely say it's an amazing industry to be a part of. Yeah, there's room for. Hello and welcome back to Behind The Brush. It's me. It's Beth, your host makeup artist and founder of Saint Jack. How are. It has been a couple of weeks. I am doing well, but a lot has been happening, so let's do a little rapid fire update for everybody. Biggest one, I moved house. Huge. It is absolutely huge. It is a much bigger job than you anticipate. Like I feel like people move house and they're like, Oh, you know that's a big deal. You know that. That's a lot of effort, and then you're actually in it and you're like, When did I accumulate all this crap? Anyway, I did it. Thank God I'm here. I'm loving it. Two weeks ago I went to the AFL Grand Final. I paid $350 for my ticket. I am a lifelong. Sydney Swans fan obsessive. And if you know anything about football, you know that it was one of the worst games in the history of games. And the Sydney Swans got massacred in front of my very eyes, which was very painful to watch. And then afterwards I was like, Well better go to the bar. And I had about 8 million pickle back shots. And if you've ever had a pickle back shot or if you know what it is, you would know the deep sense of regret. I felt the next day, not only because I felt like crap, but also because I had spent so much money and I had no nothing to show for it. So that was a little bit of a disaster. But I mean, it's all in good fun. It's part of the game, you know, winning and losing part of the game. And also, I did already talk about this on my Instagram and got lots of positive comments from you guys from some of you who have also watched it. But I binged all of Heartbreak High on Netflix in about 24, 48 hours. What a show. What a show. It just, I understand that Heartbreak High was around 20 or so years ago or whatever. I haven't watched the older version. I dunno if it would hit the same in 2022, but this show, wow. Kids who are in high school right now are so lucky that this show is being made. But more importantly, as an adult who couldn't be further away from school, I was watching it and I was like, Wow, what a great story about representation, about accepting differences, about embracing differences. And also the makeup was on point. The styling was on point. If you need a new show, as I desperately do, I highly recommend you go and check that. In terms of Saint Jack, I am reasonably reluctant to say anything because I feel like I sound like a broken record. I'm like the girl who cried wolf about this, this second product, because I still haven't told you what it is. I'm not ready to do that yet because I, I wanna time everything perfectly. You gotta time these things perfectly guys. You get it. You understand. But while I haven't been on the air, aka since the last time I recorded the podcast with Connor, things have progressed at quite a rapid speed. And I would say that we are now meal weeks away rather than me a month away from this product launching. And that is, Truly something that I am very, very, very proud of, and it also scares the shit outta me because I am putting everything I have, and I mean that in a literal financial, emotional, and spiritual sense. I am putting everything I have into this because I believe in it so strongly and I believe in it so strongly that you are going to love it as much as I do. I have been using it for the last few months. It is just such a brilliant addition to my routine. And I can't wait for you to try it. I, I really can't. And I also can't wait to expand our Saint Jack community from this amazing cult status artist vibe, and open the doors a little bit and let some more beauty enthusiasts in with this particular product. So it's a really exciting time. And look, I don't, I've never said this on the podcast, but if you are a fan of the show, if you are a fan of the brand, fan of the makeup cleaning list, and for whatever reason, you are not subscribed to the Saint Jack email database, you know, you go on the website, scroll down the bottom, put your email in, get 10% off cheeky code. If you are not on that database, I would highly recommend that you get on that database asap. I don't know exactly how I am going to roll this out. But I do know this, I will take care of the people who have always taken care of me first. And what I mean by that is if you are a Saint, Jack, og, if you are Behind the Brush listener, if you are someone who has been clapping for me in the background this whole time, I wanna give you first access to this product because I will be very honest with you and say that the initial run of this product, I have done as much as I can, but there's still limited quantities. So I want you to get that first access and I will be communicating that via email. So there's my little, there's my update for you with some tangible advice. So I think, I think we're in a good spot. But anyway, none of that. None of anything of the last five minutes is why you have clicked onto this episode today. You are not here for me. You are here for Fernando. I have been singing, There was something in the air that, No, that Fernando Abba song all day because guys, I got to speak to Fernando Hervas today. He has been in the makeup industry for over 12 years. He is the celebrity makeup artist at the Gold Coast and beyond. He got his start in retail. Ding, ding, ding. His piece of advice is to get your start in retail. And then he built his freelance profile by working with influencers and other high profile ladies. He is now one of the most sought after event artists in the sunny State. In fact, we had booked this interview in for today, and then yesterday he got a super big job that he had to do this morning before the interview. Like, people want him, he's in demand. I want him, I want him to do my face . He often collaborates with the Veronica's, aka the founding fathers of the Australian national anthem. And has recently painted the faces of chat build. Olivia Molly Rogers and Kira McGuire to name a few. This chat was really fun. We, you know, we took it off book a little bit. Guys like, you know me, I'm always prepared. I got my questions, I got my research. But you know what? I jumped on this chat. We were both in great moods and we just vibed. There's so many great stories in there, I'm not gonna spoil them. Also, some really beautiful advice for boys and beauty and making sure you never let anyone dim your light. So that's absolutely enough for me. Ladies and gentlemen, Fernando Hervas Fernando. Welcome to Behind The Brush. Oh my God, I'm so excited. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. Thank you so much for being on the show. My understanding is you were doing a big job this morning. What were you working Yes. So I don't know if you've heard of the label Bridget and B Anchor, I believe it is. I have actually So yeah, they're up here on the Gold Coast currently doing a big launch and a launch party. So Versace Star by Bloom hit me up yesterday asking to work my magic on some talent that are getting flown in. So yeah, it was very exciting and it was an opportunity not to be missed. And I also got to work with the amazing Natalie Anne hair, which she's, she's been such a big icon in hair for so long, and I've just been so inspired. It was just amazing. It was very, very, very cool. That's so cool. I can't believe how quickly you can just mobilize into, like two nights ago you were going to sleep thinking, I'm just gonna be chill on Wednesday. I'm I know And then next minute it's like style bys on the phone. He's like, Come on, you gotta get Yeah, I know, I know. But you know what? Yeah. But you know what? I think, especially in this industry, after so long, we work smarter and that's what makes me happy. What do you, what do you mean by that? How do you work smarter? So obviously you, I guess you get to a point that obviously you can choose jobs that you wanna do. I am, I am such a yes man for so long. But I think over the years, I've, I've realized that I've gotta put myself first as well. This industry is so cutthroat and it's very fast paced, and we've gotta do so much hustling where I've, I've, I've gotta just take a step back. I don't know, I just, Yeah, I just, I just want more time for me, and I think that's the most important part. I totally agree with that. I, I mean, work smarter not harder for me. That's like boundaries, you know, that you can say, Yes, I could do that job, but sometimes even I gotta think about it now and I'm like, eh, do I really like, do I really have to do that particular job? So I completely agree, but. For the sake of the audience, just in case they don't know your story. I would love to run through just the early days to get, you know, kind of get everyone up to speed and talk a bit more about how you got into the industry before we crack into the really good stuff. So the first question I ask all of my guests is, Fan, what did you wanna be when you grew up? All right, so there was two things I wanted to become when I was in school. One was a. So I have a massive passion for animals fear lines. So yeah, def definitely wanted to go down that veterinary science route. I think the whole part of it scared me towards the end was, you know, not, it's all not fun games. It's all, it's not all puppies and kittens. It actually was like surgeries, really hectic stuff, which I'm, I've got quite a weak, weak stomach, so that didn't really, you know, Oh, oh. Like in that respect, I was thinking like it would be really heavy because animals die and that's like the saddest thing that true. Absolutely. Absolutely. But I think just that whole part of it, Cause literally you're like a doctor and you're trying to save these animals from anything and I'm so weak at the knees, so I just thought, yeah, not for me. But you know, I've gotta fur baby and obsessed with her, so yeah, that's fine. But yeah, so I was going down that route at school, plus I was a dancer as well at a very young age and I literally fell into dancing quite young. I loved it. I've always loved performing. I always say that I came out of my mom dancing cause I was such, I was such a big mover when I was little. So yeah, so definitely being a dancer was definitely the next route. So I did that, you know, into my early teens, into my early twenties. Again, literally wanted to kick, you know, kick ass in dancing. I wanted to move overseas. Wanted to be like a Britain dance or a Christina Aguilera dance or like a backup, like getting into that. But yeah, had a very small ankle injury and that kind of shifted very quickly. It's so crazy how I think about this. Even with sports people all the time who are at the top of their game. It's like one bad game, you hurt yourself and it's all over. That's so sad to me. The saddest thing, , are you poor things. So you were a dancer. I mean, obviously you were dance, doing dance while you were at school, like high school and stuff like that, and then you progressed and that was actually your career straight Yeah, so Trader High School did full-time dance, did a lot of steads, did a lot of like, you know, concerts and shows and you know, same thing, like could have went down the route of moving to la, working on cruise ships, things like that. But I think just the traveling, I think back then I was quite young still, so it's quite scary to do it on your own. So, yeah, so, you know, hitting my nine, you know, hitting my 19 year old self, I met my partner and yeah, like I think, you know, when you do meet someone, it's almost like, Oh, I don't. Leave now, like I've met someone. So yeah, so that kind of really just, you put a hurdle in it, but it thought, you know, I had my, my, my time in dancing. I, like, I, it, it, obviously I still do it casually a little bit, but yeah. And then obviously being in that industry of dance, being surrounded by beauty and fashion and, you know, really, I've always been captivated by, by makeup. I was very good at drawing when I was in school, so always had really good art, like, you know, art performance results. So yeah. So I think that's all kind of entwined, hence where I am now. So dancing was like your gateway drug into the beauty world. think so. Absolutely. And I feel like, yeah, that was, yeah. Even though like at a very young age, I used to be very know, I used to watch my mom, like she would never step out the house without a full face of makeup. So I used to watch her put a red lipstick on perfectly her blush, her, her bronzer and her eye colors. And I was like, Wow, Mom takes so much pride. Like that must take so much time. But you know, that was her. And it was so beautiful because at any age when making feel so confident, wearing minimal or as as much makeup as they, as they do, um, so as a young kid that was like, Wow, that's so not, that's so cool to see. And um, yeah, I think that kind of just, you know, I don't know, like I felt like it just was like another option, like another, you know, route to go through. Yeah, for sure. Were you, while you were doing dancing, were you in any kind of situations in your work where you needed to be doing makeup or anything like that? Like did you start picking up brushes while you were doing the dancing? Like I'm keen to know how the transition happened, Well, a little bit like obviously a lot of the girls obviously, like, you know, I would help all the girls put their lashes on, do a liner on them. Yeah, lashes, when you are the boy dancer. Oh my God, that's like the dream yeah. I remember like, you know, the other stage moms, but like Fernando help, help. Because obviously I do wear match makeup at all and I still don't wear any makeup anyway. But yeah, I just love, I just love getting the girls ready and stuff. So yeah, so I've always been around it, like obviously there was times that ourselves had to put makeup on my CU Boys, so you know, we'd put a bit of blush and bronzer on some fake mustaches at the time for like certain looks and things, which was funny. But yeah, pretty funny. I wish I did make up in school. Imagine, Imagine the killing. I'll do it. Formal day. Oh my God. Don't we all Wait, so h hang on. Like how did you know how to put lashes on somebody else? Like there, there are people and I'm like talking about more like regular beauty, whereas like makeup, whereas like not artists, there are people who like cannot for the life of them, put lashes on themselves. But you are a boy who hasn't done makeup before and you are putting lashes on people at dance. I think I just winged it. I think I may have just seen a video of something back in the day. This is obviously long before YouTube and everything, and I, I kind of thought to myself, Hey, it can't be that. Like the strip looks like a lash. It kind of goes where the lash line looks at where it should go. If it's too long you trim it. Like I just, I thought my, you know, my telesis or my, just my thought pattern, Okay, that's how it should go. I knew not to put too much lash glue cause I'm thinking I wouldn't want lash glue on my eyes, so why would I do it on them? So just little things that I picked up that I kinda just, you know, just put into full throttle and yeah, I was like the go to for like lashes, you know, lining girls lips. So, yeah. So it was pretty surreal. Oh my God. I wish I had you around when I was in high school and I was discovering fake lashes for the first time. I remember the first time I ever wore them. I was going to an 18th and I went to a Mac and I bought like the $22 lashes or whatever, and then they put them on me and you should have seen me. I was like walking around like I'm the biggest batty in the world with these lashes. Oh my God. And it's like, if I could have had that all the time, my life would've been very different. know. And these lashes, lashes, like, you know, back then were so much different. They were big. They were like, you know, stage lashes. They were huge. That particular example I just gave you, I look deeply unwell and I have the photos, I'll put it, I'll put it up on the Saint Jack story actually when Oh, goes live cuz it's pretty funny. But, so I love, I love going deep into the vault just to give people the plot, you know, it's all for the plot. So how did you move out? So you had the ankle injury obviously, so you weren't gonna keep going with that. So how that was on a holiday in Spain with my fam, with my family after high after like year 12. So we went overseas for a couple of months. I fell down some stairs, like I tumbled kind of, Yeah, I inflamed like, you know, to a ligament or tendon. Nothing really got cured properly. I recently have just done it again. But anyway, that's another story. you fall down the stairs again or did you hurt just a little bit of a silly dance move. But anyway, yes, a bit of a twist. But anyway, so then that kind of just, you know, kind of thought, okay, well can't really do dance anymore for a while, so what I wanna do. So, you know, I went, I just went into like a retail job, full-time work. I didn't do anything too crazy. I used to be like a goal class cinema supervisor, which was run, which was amazing. I loved it. Movies, theaters, They were so fun. And then, yeah, and then I got an opportunity with Napoleon. First of all, we love a friend who works in the cinema because I used to enjoy 50 tickets. Um, I love that. the Canditt bar was my favorite. The Canditt Bar is still my favorite, I know, we won't. and I know, and I may have, may or not have done, I think we used to call it double. Double. So when you're making popcorn, it was like, back then it was like one scoop of the butter or one scoop of the sugar or the, the other salt. And I used to do double butter, double salt, and like the popcorn would come out. So fluro yellow, it was so bad, but it tasted good. So my like Canditt bar side was fluro yellow. So everyone would come and get it and then the manager would be like, Oh my God, what are you doing? I'm like, People are loving it. That's how they do it in America, baby. It's true. So how did you go from the cinema to Napoleon? Was it something you were actively looking to do to No, not at all. Not at all. Like that's the thing. I've always loved beauty, but never thought I would go down that route. So I went to an Napoleon event here on the Gold Coast. They had a ambassador by the name of George, who, I'm not sure if you're, The used to be the actress. She used to play Angel on Home Inoa, which was a massive, massive fan on it, you know? Anyway, she was here to open this store on the Gold Coast. I was, I was like, I was friend, like, oh my, you have to go meet Melissa. Like this is your opportunity. Just as a fan girl. Nothing, nothing to do with Napoleon at all. And then, yeah, literally met her. Had the best night of my life. It was so, she was so beautiful. Napoleon himself was there. I met him and yeah, went, got offered a job with them like three days later as they were wanting more guys to join the industry. Right. obviously saw there was something in me. I did mention I had no makeup. Real proper training. They're like, No worries. We'll, you know, we'll train you Oh my God. So, but you know, obviously, cause I have had that beauty background, I've had a little bit of that stage presence with dancing and being around it. I feel like I picked it up a lot. I, I know I just picked it up. It's very hard. You can teach people makeup, but if it comes from within it's just so much more organic. Yeah, I do definitely feel that there's only so much you can teach and there's probably like this extra stretch that's either you understand it and it's within you or you Yeah. And I'm sure that there are plenty of people who can operate perfectly on the, I've been trained to do this, so I can do it. But I did hear someone, and I can't remember who said it, but this was years ago. I read it on someone's Instagram and it's stuck with me the whole time. It's like you're either a makeup artist or you're a makeup put Yeah, Do you know what I, There's a and I'm the artist. I don't put her on, on any on, like, I don't put, I can't put the shit on me for like, I can try to do a cut on me, but I just don't think it would work where I just love the canvas. So yeah, it's very, I think that's very cool quote. Cause it's very true. I truly wish I could remember who said it, because I remember at the time reading it and being like, Oh fuck, I might be a puter on or right now. Like, I need to, I need to sort my shit out. But it really stuck with me and I would definitely agree. I mean, I see that coming through your work. So you're working for Nepali and you're working in retail there, training you up. So are you starting to do makeup in store? Yeah, literally I was doing like, I do remember my very first Smokey Eye appointment, which probably wasn't as good as it may have should have been, because I was like, Okay, Smokey Eye, probably a bit of black pencil. Smudge it in, let's go for it. And yeah, they may have, may not had that little bit of a pan eye look, but hey, the girl loved it. You know, the manager all the time. She may have tweaked it here and there, but I was like, she was like, Damn you, that's the bad and you've had no training. I said, No. Yeah. Worked for Napoleon for five years, had great training with them, Continu doing like, you know, little diploma certificates with them, certificate courses. It kind of really just helped me, you know. Succeed. But you know what? Working in that first retail environment was so good. Like, I still can't say it enough, like working as a makeup artist in a store is your best experience you can ever have. Yeah, I, It is actually something that I first heard Priscilla Ono say it because I did a course with her years and years ago, and she said, I got a job at Sephora. And that changed my life, was working with different faces who were coming into the store, and you couldn't control it every day. And I've heard so many artists say it on this show as well, that I hope it's starting to get through to anyone who might be listening, who's thinking about a career in it. It could be tempting to just say, I'm gonna be a freelancer and work for myself, but the richness of the experience in store sounds amazing. Yeah, no, it was, and like obviously I, I, you know, it was just so amazing cause you literally work on every age, every skin tone, every ethnicity, and you learn about textures, skin like, yeah, it was really great. Like, I Canditt yet, I can't praise it enough. Yeah. And so you worked there for quite a few years and then you worked at Mac, is that Yeah, so a lot of, you know, a lot of transitioning with a lot of the people I was working with moved to Mac. Mac was then starting to really come big in Australia. There was only like maybe one store in Brisbane at the time. It was quite new. Obviously we've all heard about Mac Mac's always been, you know, they've been around for yacht donkeys year like so long, and we've always thought of Mac as like a really high grade makeup artistry product. Back then, obviously I was still scared. I was like, oh my God. Like, you know, that's why would you know? Why would they pick me? Like, you know? But you know, I won them over. I was with them for about nine years, Wow. So when did you stop working at. so probably now. Oh, I think it's probably like, I think it's probably like six years ago. Wow. I reckon six years. so what did that look like six years ago? You were working at Mac and then you decide, I don't wanna work in store anymore. I wanna go out and do my own thing. What was driving that decision? Driving the decision that you'd get when you couldn't book people in. They would ask you to come to their hotel room after work to do their makeup. And they were like, We'll pay you cash or we'll pay you whatever. Like, can you please do it? And I was like, Okay. Like, I'm like, I guess really good. They were happy with you freelancing. Obviously they didn't want you to cancel. You know, change shifts around for it. But yeah, they were so good with it. So yeah, most Friday afternoons, Saturdays I'd finish work at Mac then you know, I'd, I've my kid in my car, go to the hotel room, you know, do two, do three girls makeup while they were going out. Cause obviously getting makeup going out was really popular back then. And it still is. But back then it was, you know, it was a thing. And then, yeah. And then next morning back at Mac again, same thing that afternoon I'd be on and became something was actually happening to a lot of in the store and Wow. Like we're actually almost doubling our, with just a little bit of side hustling. Where were those clients coming from? They were just coming in store. Like obviously my last stint at Matt, I was working at Mac, I was working at the pro store in James Street in, in Brisbane. So it was like really high traffic. We were in a beautiful area of Brisbane in the valley and so you'd get that, you'd get a really, a beautiful clientele based and yeah, they were happy to spend and they were happy for you to come, you know, come to the hotels and come to their homes and, you know, you started giving your mobile out here and you know, I'd have like a little Web Web website and pass that on. So it started becoming a word of mouth thing that people got to a point that they're like, Oh, well, if people can come home and like come to my home and get my makeup done, then I don't wanna go away. Like, I'd rather just get my makeup done at home and then go straight to the event rather than come in store, get their makeup done, then they gotta drive all the way home, either in. Yeah, I mean I remember even, again, this is me telling like old wives tells of my own life, but I remember going to get my makeup done again around 18, 19 cuz it was, it was a thing you'd get it done when you were going out. And I was just thinking to myself, Oh, it's so annoying to have to drive half an hour each way, pay for parking, do this, do that. And it's like, yeah, redeeming product is cool, but have you ever had your makeup done in your own house? yeah. And that's a thing like you, there'd be, there'd be girls, a lot of clients that would regularly get their AL products, like constantly they're getting makeup done and they probably got to a point, they're like, We don't need all these products. We just wanna pay, get our makeup done. So I think that's where the flip the switch turned for low people. They thought, you know what? We're still getting the service. We don't need all that extra junk just sitting in our makeup closets. They especially probably don't need it because they're getting their makeup done so often by the sounds of it. So you quit Mac six years ago, Feel like it. ish. Let's just Yeah. Ish. I feel like, I feel like time is really going very quickly. It's going quickly. And there was a whole two year gap in the middle of it that we're just not gonna talk about, but that's so it was like six years ago. So I'm trying to do quick math. It's roughly 2016 ish. 2016 ish. of, that's like the golden age of Instagram. Now, I also know, because I have been following you for a long time, that your original Instagram got to taken from you. But let's put that aside for a moment. Even though we should have potentially a little warning in this chat somewhere about cybersecurity, but Mm-hmm. did you start after you'd quit Mac and wanted to go freelance, did you start just going crazy on Instagram? Was that something that just came naturally or were you not quite yet? No, like I remember when I was working at Mac, I did have an Instagram and I remember just posting maybe we were able to take photos of girls in the chair at Mac. Obviously just little formal girls and brides. Even some brides were getting their makeup done at Mac, so we were taking photos of them, I was posting them. Then I started becoming a bit more creative, so I started just doing some creative shoots with like some local photographers. But yeah, it was all just like networking and it got to a point that I thinking, yeah, like you said, you don't wanna keep working in like, it was not so much draining, but I just felt like there was no potential. Like it just, you, you could obviously grow in the, in the company, but unless you were a store manager or an events team artist, there was no, there's nowhere else to go. Mm. I feel like, and again, I haven't worked in a retail environment, but just based on my understanding of it, it's like you can work in store, you can be an artist in store, and then brands like Mac for example, have, you know, key artists and senior artists that work for the brand, like Nicole Thompson or Pinky used to be. Right. And then you've got that, but then it's like beyond that, where do you go? Like there is gonna be a ceiling there, so I suppose you're kind of running your Instagram. Like what were those first months or even years like being a freelancer? Like was it hard? Did it just kind of come naturally It was definitely so hard. Like, you know, I know there's a, there was a couple of us that kind of s sprouted into the freelance route, so, you know, I joined forces with a couple, you know, we'd work in, in a, in a hair salon together, you know, would share clients. Cause obviously people, you know, you just, yeah, just kind of started like getting clients here, clients there, posting photos of, obviously photos was such a big thing. But yeah, like I just, I just feel like we just got to a point they thought, you know what? Let's, we can make a full. Living out of this. And I think that's what none of us really thought at the time when you were working in retail. Cause obviously you wanted your solid wage every week. You wanted your permanent hours that you knew that you could live on. But when it started, when the tables turned, I was, you know, getting booked fors and getting for photo shoots and I was getting paid more than what I was doing pretty much in retail. That's when I thought, wow, I'm gonna just keep doing this. Like, Mmm. I think working for yourself, it's very scary, but the same time is, you know, it's very rewarding at the same time. Yeah, definitely. What do you think were the key aspects at that time that really set you apart? Because there are lots and lots of freelancers out there who also have to have kind of other jobs to supplement the income because you know, they're not quite there yet where you know, they can make a full-time living out of it. So obviously at that time you were making it work, and so I'm just really curious for you, like, is there something that stands out for you of like, I was doing lots of this at the time and that helped me stand out. Like was it something you were doing, follow up with clients or something like that? Do you know I guess obviously like influences obviously really played a really huge role, I guess with this out of my career. So I think, you know, you know, that's like, that's now what, four or five years, five years ago, influences with a shit like. They would, you know, you know, they would still offer to pay, but if, if it was quite a big influencer, you are happy to do their makeup for free. You're happy to collab on tags, on shares, on stories your following go up. Cause obviously that's where I feel like a lot of us, you know, if you work on really high top models and high top celebs influencers, that's where you following really grows. You can still grow it organically through, well, I don't think you can now. It's very difficult. It is. It's a, you know what, and let's just preface that by saying like, this is kind of more of a history lesson because the way Instagram works today compared to six years ago is so different. And we all know that. But that, that's really interesting. I have heard this before, that, you know, working with certain, like high profile people kind of propelled the following up and then people kind of equate, or they used to equate following with worth like, Oh, he's got lots of followers, he must be good. I'll book him. Or he's doing makeup for her so he's good. I'll book him and that kind of works. So were you like DMing these people A little bit and then I'd be getting DMing from them. So yeah, it was a bit, bit of both and I was just really active. And I think that's the thing, I was really active on Instagram, really active in stories. I'm not scared to show people who I behind, you know, Behind, the Brush That's the first time that's ever happened. Yes. And it was so natural as It was, oh my God. Yeah. So yeah, so I'm not a, I'm a, I am a bit of a show pony. Like, I don't mind being in front of the camera. So I think people love that, you know, Fernando, he's a makeup artist, but he's got a personality, he's got character, he's got, you know, he's got something to offer. And I, that's a thing, like I'd rather be at a job and, you know, be really myself and not have to be like someone different. And that's a thing. And that's why I'm pretty, I've always been true to myself and I feel like that's what people either really love working with me because yeah, like I bring so much good vibes all the time. You know, I've been on jobs where either the other artists or a hair artist is really not having a good day. And that's not, it's, that's not me. Like I, I feel like you should leave that at home. I think it's, like you said, I was really active. Influencers really helped me get that, you know, work and Yeah, like you said back then it was like, Oh my God, if that person's using this person, if that person's using that, if they're wearing this, I need to buy that. So it's, it was very, it was very pit moment of, wow, this is now going to another level, which I never thought it. Yeah, I mean, it's pretty cool. I think that similar things are starting to happen with TikTok, but TikTok is more global in a sense. So like you could upload a makeup video and that could get people who like makeup from all over the world watching it rather than Instagram. You could geotag it and then it would be people in your area would see it, and it works a little bit differently, but hopefully TikTok will kind of take off in that direction where we can use it again to kind of grow our own businesses as artists. Like for brands, it's amazing for artists. I'm not so sure at the moment beyond just like views, like, I don't know, but that's okay. I, I'm like, That's okay. They're there. Instagram will , Instagram will bounce back. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, even recently, so like I always do a full blown scroll of Instagram. You know what? Let's just address it now. I always do a full blown scroll of Instagram every time I have someone on the show, like I go all the way back down to the bottom. It was probably towards the end of last year or the beginning of this year that you got kicked out of your Instagram account. Is that right? Yes. So it was Nobe October last year, I believe. It actually was my mom's birthday, which was really creepy. So it's been a year to year yesterday. Oh my God. yeah. Oh my God. So, yeah, it was a, Whatever
night it was, it was about 7:00 PM I did a five o'clock post as I usually kinda did, or I still kinda do five o'clock get replied back into replying to comments. And yeah, it was about 7, 7 30 I went to, I went to go back onto my home screen and all of a sudden my whole Instagram went gray. Like the whole page just went gray and it logged me out. And I was like, Okay, what the hell? So then I tried to log in with my details password. It kept saying that it's sending a, like, you know it send code to your phone number. So yeah, sorry. No, no. Phone recognized. I was like, What is this? And then I went to my partner's phone, opened it up on his phone, and he goes, Look, your name is still there, but your posts are gone. But yeah. So your, your name's still there. Your, your profile pictures still there. Your followers are still there, but there was no grid. Which I was like, Okay, what's going on? Kept refreshing, kept refreshing. I couldn't log in for the sake of me. I went onto my laptop, couldn't log on. I was having this, I was having a bit of at this time, cause I thought, Okay, this is serious. And then probably about four minutes later, got a WhatsApp message from some random number saying, Hi Fernando. I've just been scrolling social media and I've just noticed that your Instagram has been deactivated. Do you want, do you want me to help you get it back? And I was just from this random number and I was like, Excuse me. So I, I wrote back and I was like, Sorry, how do you know this? And he goes, Oh, I'm an internet. I'm a, what was it? He was like, I'm a social media traveler or something. I've just noticed your Instagram has just been deactivated. And then he sent me a screenshot of his laptop and he had like 50 Instagram pages opened. Mine was one and my page was fully disabled. And then I was like, Wait a minute. And then not, not long after, I actually realized that he was the hacker of the account of my account. So he was holding my account ransom. I then contacted Instagram, contacted Facebook. I just couldn't get anywhere with them. I had friends text messaging me saying, Have you blocked me on Instagram? Cause I Canditt find you. I was like, No, babe, I think I've just been hacked. They're like, Oh shit. My partner was, we were both just freaking out. We're like, Oh my God, what is God? What's happened? Yeah. I just let that, I just, I dunno. Then I contacted a lady, she also messaged me. She realized that I was, I was, I was, you know, inactive, She's working software. She got a guy to help me. We on, we're on like Zoom calls at like midnight trying to get my page back. He went into like back office, Back office of Facebook. So there's people that do a lot of Facebook ads. So he was going into like Facebook, he goes, Your page is still there, but it's been disconnected from your Facebook. Your mobile's been disconnected. He's like, Have you had like someone trying to be you? And I said, Look, I think someone is trying to be me. So, but that's why they've disconnected me. I'm pretty sure I had my two, my two factory verification on, which was very bizarre. I still dunno how they got in. But they did. And yeah, so that night I was a mess. My page had been gone. I think it was the next day, The next morning I got a phone call. I think that night actually
at 2:00 AM in the morning from Facebook, I believe in Russia. It was really weird. He was like, No, you can't have your page back. I said, Pardon? He's like, You've been, you, You violated guidelines. You've been trying to impersonate someone. I'm like, I pardon? Like, what do you mean this is my makeup page? This, this is me. Like you're speaking to me. He let you just the cold shoulder and just said, No, you're not getting it back. And this was someone from Facebook alone. And I was like, No, no. I'm so effing appealing this. So days and days went by. I kept emailing Instagram, emailing Facebook, getting people to help me just become, It was just long drawn out process. So for about two weeks, I had no social media presence, but hey, It was refreshing in a sense. It was kind of cool. Not in a, I know it. It was such a weird feeling. Sure. It felt like something died, which is, That's what it felt like. So I was a little bit in mourning about it, and then, yeah, then I kind of came to realization. I was like, Uh, okay. I'm not getting my page back. What do I have to do? I literally was just gonna give Instagram a flick. I thought, No, I'm done. I've grown my page. I can't do this again. This is not gonna help. Like, yeah, it really made you feel like worthless after all the years of content and work that you put in, how someone can just take that from you. But then not only me, I was finding this out that a lot of people, it was happening to a lot of people as well. So, you know, there was a girl in Adelaide that got her page hacked. There was a girl in Melbourne, like there was all these makeup artists. I'm like, why are they targeting makeup artists? This is so bizarre. So then, yeah, I kind of like tried to reach back to this guy on WhatsApp. He never really came through with the goods. He was like, Nah, he was just wanting them, me to transfer him money, crypto to get my like, So yeah, it was so, it was so up. So yeah, so two weeks I was inactive and then someone said to a, just so it's there, just so people know that you're, because that's a thing. People I had just, which was so weird, weird. weird how, how part of the fabric of who we are. Like we let these accounts be like, I remember that happening to you so vividly. I can't believe it was like a year ago today ish. But it was just awful. And I have seen it happen to other people, but I've seen their accounts get recovered. I suppose though, having come back the other end of it, I think you got hacked at like, what was it, like 28 K or something and now you're just under 20. Like you've done a pretty good job building it back. I have, and that's with a lot of help as well. Like obviously I think I did lean on my influences and all my, you know, people of, of you know, of, of status to help me, you know, get that my page recognized again. So yeah, I grew to like three or 4K probably in about four, three days, four days, which was pretty good. And then I did a really cool reel to kind of, you know, do my first one back and then, yeah, then it kinda just helped, you know, it starting to go up and down a little bit as they do. And then I joined some influencer giveaway. So they're the ones that you become sponsors. You do pay money towards it, but you are guaranteed real followers, which you do some of go, some of stay. So yeah, I did two of them and yeah, it's there. I realized all this, It's not about the follower you have, so I feel like as much as we all want the massive following number just to sit there, like every time you hit like a milestone, it's like, Yay, thanks for 10 K, or yay, I'm on 15 now. I'm like, No. Like I Canditt a number. Dictate. Dictate me. Dictate my worth, dictate my, in this industry like, so yeah, it's been a bit of a mind. But yeah, we've just had to come to the, we've just had to come through it and then. Well, good on you. I feel like even there's a lesson in that to say, okay, I had been pretty obsessed with my Instagram. I was absolutely devastated when I lost it. Like, don't get me wrong, I would be devastated if I lost my personal Instagram and I've got like 500 follows. It's not a big deal. Like I get it, but like to kind of come out the other end and be like, That didn't tell me that I was a good makeup artist or not. My follow up numbers don't really matter. And I mean, I guess everyone stay vigilant, man. Like change your password every so often. Do all the things. Like I always say I'm gonna do it and I always forget. I'm really bad with security. I'm definitely gonna be changing my password before this podcast goes I know it's just, it's just nuts because it's like electric can just change overnight or just change within a second. Interrupting this episode of me talking with more of me talking. It's Beth, the founder of Saint Jack, and I just wanted to quickly remind you that the Makeup Cleaning Miss is a must have for your professional Artistry Kit made with the highest quality alcohol, so it absorbs quickly and smells so good. The mis kills the bacteria on the surface of all of your products, like your eyeshadow, palettes, Bronzes, blushes everything, so everything can stay nice and clean between clients. Proud Australian Made. Get your hands on the missed online at ww dot Saint Jack dot com au and use code Brush 15 to join the hundreds of other artists like 10 Jay Penny UA and Jack Kale, who always had the miss by their side. Now let's get back to the show. Over the last few years, I mean, you were doing influencers kind of to get your, like, you know, you're following up, but like also to get more bookings and things like that. But over the last few years, like even just recently in the last year since you've had your account back and what I have been able to see, you've been doing makeup for like Abby Chatfield, the Veronicas, like DJ Tiger Lilly and you know, you're doing a lot of really high profile people and I'm just really curious. I always, I mean, you mentioned to me that you love celebrity. I love celebrity. I'm the kind of person who gets starstruck when I see bloody scutty cam from the block. So I don't know how I would cope with Queen a Chatfield in the I know, I You approach those jobs any differently to how you would if it was just like a normy off the street, You know what? And they, and they are still Normies off the street and that's the thing. And I've, you know, but I'm the same like I fan girls so hard, but you know, you keep a real, and at the end of the day, they're real people, so you just listen to what they want. I don't know. I guess I've had to learn over the years that, you know, they are at this status for a reason, but they've worked hard to get there. But yeah, they're just like real people. But yeah, I still get nervous. I still get like nervous we, or whatever, you know? We keep it real. We keep it Yeah, absolutely. Is there anything that really stands out to you as like a, Oh my God, pinch me moment Where because of like, your client was a celebrity or something like that, that you got to do something really cool or go somewhere really cool. like there's been so many moments, like, you know, for instance, like, you know, I did the Veronica's concert a couple, you know, a little while ago and that was amazing cause we're backstage, we're, you know, in the dressing room. And that's all fun cause you see the girls get so excited and then like, you know, Celeste, Barbara is backstage as well waiting to meet them and I'm. Oh my god, this is crazy. Cause I'm part of the Veronica group, like the tours, Barbara is there to meet the Veronica and I was like, so you do see all these moments? Like if you weren't there, you Canditt tell people that those things and like, you know, and like, you know, DJ Target, Lilly were backstage at one of her shows and you know, we, I walked on stage with her, like I walked stage with her. Like it's pretty cool. Like it's, and I feel like I've always liked that life. Like, you know, you see, you know some, you know Britney's Britney, SP's makeup artist back in the day and Beyonce is like you and Kim Kardashian with Mario. Like you always see them following them when they're off to appearance. I think to see that you are part of that and I've always liked that. I dunno if I could cope that level of lifestyle that they do have. As in like the celebrity or the Yeah, absolutely. Like I feel like, you know, they get hounded so much. So crazy. Yeah. It's so full on. But you're right. I can picture like Chris Appleton and Mario like walking behind Kim, like when she's like doing the Delft Shaana. Although I think Makeup by Arielle did that. But anyway, I digress. When it comes to doing celebrity stuff, so like let's say for example the Veronica Show, right? They would obviously know what they're wearing because it's their tour. Like they would have like outfits and stuff prepared by like stylists and things like that. And I think, you know, events like Fashion Week or the Met Gala or tours or something like that, it's like the whole thing has to be cohesive. The hair even down to the nails, the outfit, the shoes, the makeup obviously. Is there like a different level of collaboration that comes with those sorts of jobs and how does, like what does that look like? Cause I've never done anything like that where I'm collaborating with like multiple people beyond like working with a hairstylist at a wedding. But it's not quite the same thing as being like, okay, like even Delta Good at the AFL Grand final with like the pink with the Row Williams, like her hair and makeup. Glam squad would've had to have known the brief. Do you know what I Yeah, absolutely. that look like? Yeah, so pretty much like obviously the girls, I've known the Veronica for years, so obviously the girls trusted whatever look I wanted to do on them. But then I just like, you know, I just made sure what I just asked the hairstyles what hair we're doing. I asked their manager, Yep. So the girls will think of this type of look and they were very, very cruisy. They're probably one of the most Cruz girls in the industry when it comes to just, you know, doing, you know, whatever a glam we want on them. Obviously it's stage. So I had to amp up, you know, the empty of extra bronze, extra highlight, make the eyes more defined, make lashes a bit bigger. So obviously, yeah, I'm pretty good at the eye of seeing and I always ask people, still ask people, what color jewelry you wearing? What color shoes are you wearing? Cause you want everything to be seamless. But yeah, sometimes when you're on, like for that stage appearance, you can go a bit extra and doesn't matter. I live for extra. I live for extra. Like I've got girls coming in on Saturday and they're going to a festival in Melbourne. And so they're like, Yeah, whatever. Like, you know, blah blah, I'll pick my outfit on the day. And it's just exciting sometimes to have like the opportunity to do something that's not like the classic, like bridal soft, glowy, brosy, whatever. But we love that too. It's We absolutely do. play. But switch gears for a second because it would be absolutely remiss of me not to mention silk oil of Morocco. So you are obviously very talented, you're very sought after, and then you are a imagined approach by silk oil of Morocco, or that collaboration somehow happens and you end up with a makeup line under your name, which launched last year. So tell us about this, because I'm sure a lot of people listening use the Yes. Everyone. Yeah. So this actually happened just before Right. that. We all gracefully went through. we all don't talk about No, so, so I was approached by the owner to go into this warehouse or head office. She had seen a post that I did for a, for one of their products as in their men's range. I collabed with them on a men's range. It was a photo of me holding up some styling like a sponsored post? it was like a sponsored post. I did that and the owner must have seen it the next day in when she was at work. She goes, Oh my God, who's that guy? And you know, the head of marketing was like, Oh, that's Fernando. He's a local makeup artist. Oh yeah. We've just got him using that. And she's like, What? Hervas Fernando and what? He's a makeup artist and what? And so all these things were ticking. Obviously alarm bells were going off in her mind, thinking, Wow, that, why don't we do something Alarm bells or cash register sounds. Both both. So, yeah. So I had an email from their marketing saying, Hi, Shirley, the owner of, would love to meet with you. We have a proposition for you. We have an idea. And I was like, Okay, very weird. Okay. Like, Yep, I'm just gonna go in. So I went in there, She had a whole board, there was a, it was a board meeting. She had all these posters up, all these like flat lays of ideas. So I've walked into this like, Wow. Like my name's plastered everywhere. What's this? Oh my God. Yeah. And then she's like, Have you ever thought about having your own makeup? And I was like, Napoleon putting ter. Obsessed with your own name. You've got a great name though. You've got a beautiful name. Like I've got a very, like when I go to Mecca for example, and they say, Oh, let me just look you up on the system. I say, Beth, Wilson. And they're like, Oh, there's a good couple hundred of Oh really? Yeah. And I'm like, Oh, nevermind. So every time now I'm just like, Let me just give you my email address. Like Yeah. Make you've got a name for it. You've got a name for it. Yeah, I didn't really like my name when I was younger, but anyway, that's another story. But I know people didn't like things. Different people just are like, these days though, these days. It's cool. Everyone's cool. Cause I went in there, she asked, Yeah, she pretty much asked me, Look, we would love to do a makeup collaboration with you. We love your bronzey makeup looks that you do. We would love you if, you know, if you had any ideas of maybe like an eyeshadow palette or a lipstick. Like, you know, it was very Blauer. It was very much like, you know, maybe this or this. And I was like, Yeah, Like I could absolutely do that. I think, you know, I feel like I could knock out this amazing eyeshadow palette that's good for everyone. And then I feel like, you know, oh, I nudes and nude and like liners, so let's maybe a of liners and lipsticks. So yeah, it started with, you know, that and then now it's another level of likes still. Such a beautiful range. Makeup artists everywhere. Love it. Makeup artists everywhere use it. How involved were you in, say for example, so the first drop was like nude lipsticks, lip liners, and glosses. So like a lip kit basically in like different shades of nude with different undertones, and then you've got the eyeshadow palette as well. How involved were you in creating that in terms of like the formula and like the colors and things like From everything. I literally, I had to put my hands in everything. And that's the thing, Shelly was so invested in me wanting it all under the, you know, Fernando tick of approval. So I sampled like, yeah, probably like 500 eye colors. I sampled. Oh my God, like 50 million lipsticks. I, I wanted colors that were universal that would suit everyone. I wanted an I palette, which was universal ob obviously makeup art is amazing, but for the everyday woman as well. So, and that's the thing with their audience, they had a lot of, you know, they've got a big TSN following, so we, they wanted products that were universal because sometimes like us, if we see products that are too professional or too, they look too scary to use that people won't use it. So we just wanted to keep it, but lux. Yeah, I mean like even for example, like I know some of my friends who like wear makeup but don't. Don't work in the field or whatever, they'll look at even like a Morphy palette and be like, We don't know how the fuck to use that. And I'm like, you know, what's this fair enough? Cuz I probably use like five out of the 30 shade. So I get it, I get it. But yeah, you can tell like with everything that there was purpose there. So I, I'm interested now that you've kind of got that product line with them, is that something that you are looking to do more with? Cause I know you did like a limited edition drop. Also just have to say, you released this like really beautiful red and it was named after your mom. I know. Yes. She was cute. I remember when you released that, I was like, that's such a beautiful nod, like to your family heritage and like closing the, the loop between like, I used to watch my mom put her That's it. made it. That's so nice. So cute. Yeah. No, she's, yeah, she's a, a vivid red lip wearer, so yeah, we, we had to pick homage with her and, you know, I wanted that really beautiful blue base red that make your teeth really white still. And yeah, we obviously get different options of long wear of a stain and a lipstick. Yeah. So that was pretty, that was pretty awesome. And that was my, that was actually my partner's idea. He'll tell you that. Cause you know, he, you know, he always, he's such a good ground. He's always, he's such a good, I always say like a soundboard for me. So if I, if I've got ideas or even like when I post on Instagram, I'll be like, Does this photo look any no, that, that angle doesn't look good on, let's change it. Like, he's very good and he's, he's not in the industry, but he's so good at knowing, you know, cause this what I do. But yeah, so with my, I definitely feel like that was his idea, but I put into fruition and Yeah. Surely of So Morion, oh my, that's amazing. Let's do, so yeah, that was just like bang. So, Yeah. I am obsessed with the voice that you're putting on when you're talking about Shirley I have no idea what her voice sounds like. I have no idea. from England, so she actually has a PME accent, but yeah, I'm not good at funny. Yeah. But yeah, No, I'm not gonna make you do it. Yes, yes. do, that's it. Let's do it for mama. So, yeah. But yeah. That's, Yes, I do believe there's more coming. Well, there is more coming. So Canditt say, I do believe, and I do believe there's a photo shoot happening next week for something coming. So yeah, that's my little, That's my little, yeah, that's my little, that's my little scoop for you. And this, this should be released at the end of the month. It's all do believe it will be released at the end of October, let's hope. And it or may not coincide with my birthday this month as well, so yeah. okay. I yeah. I like the sounds of this. Yeah, this may happen and. believe I'm very excited about it cuz the range is just so Yeah, and that's the thing. It takes time. It takes time to sample. It takes time to get testers, takes time to get packaging, right? So yeah, I'm not someone like, even as much as people want things done quickly, like Shirley's very great in knowing like she has so many amazing ideas. But I just said, Okay, let's just tick all these ones off first before we even venture into that next one. But yeah, I'll definitely believe I'll still be with the Silk of Morocco for quite a, for a little while still, which I'm so pleased and I'm excited. own my name and my likeness for the rest of all time now Hey man, I like that for you, I, it must be really nice to do that in collaboration cuz I know like even for me with Saint, Jack can be really hard like when you're doing it on your own, but also like I just amen to that. Like it does, this stuff takes so much time. Like people are getting so frustrated with me cuz I'm trying to release my next product by the end of the year and they're like, You've been talking about it for so long. I'm like, the fact that I've even done it in less than 12 months is like astonishing. I'm like, it's just for most people they don't understand cuz it's like sample after sample after sample, and then once you're finally done with your sample, actually ordering it and putting even little eyeshadows inside the little box of. Pallet. It takes so long somebody has to So long, so time. But it's good because you know that it's good quality and I'm sure that everyone will be very excited for the release of that. But as we kind of come to a close of the interview, because I'm so grateful that you have given me this time today, especially after you've been working, I wanna ask you, Oh, you're welcome, I wanna ask you a question that's like a little bit more personal, and I really hope that you don't mind me asking this. But the reason why a couple of months ago, there was a makeup artist in Adelaide and he put on his stories that he had recently just got a job in retail. Like we were just talking about. He's gone down the path we were just recommending, right? And he said that he's been working really, really hard and he was in tears on his Instagram story because he had had two or three women, probably slightly older women, like maybe, I don't know. I'm not gonna say what age after I've said that they're older, but you know, like they're not Gen Z or whatever. Right. And they've gone into this store to like maybe get a foundation shade or something like that. And he's gone to help them. And they've either give, they've either given him the, Oh, you don't actually work here, do you? Or they've given him the, No, I'll wait for someone else. And he was like crying on his Instagram story because he was like, I work so fucking hard and I love my job and I'm good at my job and I'm just as good as my job as like any other person working in this store. But he was being discriminated against because he was a boy in makeup. So having been a part of the industry for so many years, having worked in retail, having been a freelancer, like did you ever experience anything like that? And if so, like what advice would you give to this guy that I'm talking about? Anyone else who might be listening? I feel so bad. That's terrible. I know it broke my heart. I started Oh, that's sad. Absolutely. I got so ridiculed. I have been SBB by, I've been told that I wasn't, I didn't know what I was talking about. And this, this was a couple of times working in the retail environment from ladies and girls coming into the counter wanting to wait for another female to assist them. Yeah. And it does it, It didn't hit me a couple of times, but funny enough, this quick story. I was working at Mac. And these two South American ladies came in and I actually speak Spanish fluently as from background from Spain. So they came in, they had their Spanish accent going on, obviously chatting in. And then I said to them, Hi, ladies, like in English, can I help you? Like, is there anything? And they both looked at me up and down and they're like, No, we'll wait for the woman. And I'm like, Pardon? And they're like, You don't know what, what we need. And I was like, I work here. And they're like, No. And I was like, What the hell? Like, are you serious? And then they started bagging me in Spanish to each Oh my saying, What the hell does this pretty much, What the hell does this lose? I think he's talking about. As if anyone would buy makeup from him. Guy. Men shouldn't be in this, Men shouldn't be working in a makeup shop. And these girls were not old, they were quite young. And I found that so offensive. So I turned around and started speaking Spanish to them. They Oh my God. Give us a little, give us a little bit of Spanish I was like, since, So, Yeah, So pretty much I said, I know exactly what you, you guys want. I'm a makeup artist. And they flipped it. And they both walked out. They were so Oh. They were so embarrassed. And I was like, What a kick in the guts. I had to stand up for myself because I thought, I am not letting anyone walk all over me. So that was probably one that was a really pivotal moment of like, you know, I guess I was lucky cause I could actually could listen to what they were saying and obviously, you know, they probably wouldn't have said it to me, to my face. They were bagging, but they didn't know I could understand them, which obviously really took them off guard. But yeah, I was like, what the hell? Like, yeah. And obviously with this guy, I could fully understand it that, you know, we feel, you feel like worthless. You feel like, you know, we do know what we're on about. We work hard for where we are. And people, I feel like there's still people in, there's people still probably that feel that this is a very female dominated industry, which it is. So us guys have to sometimes, you know, become close and really, you know, go for like, you know, boss mans like we just have to. But yeah, I definitely feel like, you know, we, we are very much on the outer at times, but we just have to stay in our own lane and, you know, Either, and people gravitate you because, and they're the people that you wanna work with. They're the people that you wanna surround yourself with. You're not gonna make everyone happy, which I've learned. Yeah, so definitely I got, I cop that so much in retail and yeah, it made me feel like I just wasn't worth it. And yeah, definitely came home, you know, complaining that, wow, like am I in the right industry? Like this feels like it's a female orientated industry. So it was really tough and really hard to swallow. But yeah, you definitely come through it and you just have to, you know, just believe in yourself. Such great advice. I feel like for anyone really who feels like, I mean, I wouldn't call being a man a minority , but I mean like who? You are a minority in the beauty yeah, So it's great advice for anyone who feels like they're in some sort of minority or some sort of group that doesn't necessarily fit the conventional box of what our grandparents might expect and make up artists to look like. It's like stay true to yourself. Push on anyway. Fuck anyone who tells you any differently and just keep going. I wish we could have said the F word a couple of times back I mean, well, so this is my podcast, so I'll say whatever I want and Yeah, no, But also, but also like this is probably why I couldn't work in retail because I would just do it and that's no good. I'm not confrontational at all. But if someone had disrespected me in the way that you just described, like Yeah. Oh, I'm definitely not. Yeah, I definitely stand up for myself now. Back then. I'm surprised I even did that as well, but yeah, it was really shocking. But yeah, people Canditt get away with it because it's just disrespectful, it's rude. So yeah, we are in 2022. for it. we're not here for it. We're not here for it at. no. So the last thing I wanna ask you, I suppose, is more about advice on a broader scale, just advice in general. If you have one piece of golden wisdom, if you were at a job and your clients teenage daughter said to you, Fe, I think I really wanna be a makeup artist, what would you say to them if they, anyone at the beginning of their career, ready to get started? Yeah, I would be say, I would absolutely say perfect. Go into a workout, go into a retail environment, get some experience working in retail, get experience working with you. Like I said, d. Skin, ethnicity. But yeah, it is, It is hard because people can see how well we can do as a freelancer rather than having to go through through the retail sector first. But that was by far the most amazing experience you can have because then you don't have to be in there forever. It, you can literally do it for six or 12 months just to get that little bit of grounding. Customer service is so important. You've gotta listen to people. Even though we can say what we think, what people could wear, or what the colors they like, you have to listen. And that's the whole part of this industry. So if you're not a big communicator, I don't think this industry's for you. That is my favorite point to end on there is room for everyone. I think I've said this so many times, and I say it not even just as a makeup artist, but as like someone, a content creator or as a brand owner, it's like it's really easy to look at social media and look at, be like, Oh, this person is like killing it. Like they're fully booked or they've got so many like orders coming through for their silk of Morocco collab, or you know, they've got so many followers overnight, and I didn't Blauer, Blauer, Blauer, all this crap. It's like none of it matters. None of those people are you. There is room for you. There is room for everyone. And there's a million, Well, there's plenty of millions of faces in Australia and beyond to do makeup for, so just go for it. Just go for it. Well, fan man, I have loved this. This hour has flown by. I've I know, I know. We've so much. to do it. My pleasure. Beth. It was so amazing. You're amazing. I love this. I love this. I love this podcast. Cause like you said, it really gets to, you get to learn a little bit behind the artists and Yeah, we all have these same issues and we have these same things that we all are going through and struggle and sometimes it's just nice to actually hear that what other people have gone through. Yeah, I think especially in the case of this beautiful man in Adelaide, like when I, when I heard that, I was like, Oh my God. Like I can't relate to that because that hasn't happened to me. But like I am sure as hell that it's happened to Fern or that's it. before. So like for you to be able to share that and be vulnerable so that they can learn and like you'll support it. It's like that's why I'm doing this. So yeah. My pleasure babes. What an absolute legend. I have been following fan for years. I don't actually even know how long, I would say at least the last three or four years I've been following him in his journey and his work, and the fact that I get to organize this interview with him and talk to someone who I've admired for so long who's done so many things that I would love to do in my career and get to call that work. My God, I'm a lucky, lucky lady. And we were all very lucky to get to vibe out with him today. Like he was working his ass off in the hours before that interview and he still showed up and still had so much to share with us. After we stopped recording, I begged him to paint my face and he was like, Yeah, we could like snatch that. It would be great. And I was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then fe, if you're listening, I just remembered I'm gonna be on the Gold Coast on the 18th, 19th of November, so hit your girl up . But in the meantime, there were like so many little lessons sprinkled throughout that last hour or so. But here are my top. Actually top three. Number one, make sure you change your social media password every so often. I am gonna do that right after I stop recording. number two. Followers are great, but they don't define you. Look, I've had a variety of artists on this show with some varying perspectives about whether they care about follow accounts or whether they don't, and also to some degree, I think it's. Politically correct for us to say we don't give a shit. Like, oh, it means nothing. But deep down, deep down, surely, you know, we, we look and we have to actively stop ourselves from passing judgment on where we are sitting at the moment. And, you know, while most of us try to remain unbothered by the numbers, realistically, if you've got 28,000 followers and in a flash, everything that you built with your audience and also something that I've just realized, all of your content is gone and that was your primary way of communicating with your clients, you're gonna feel violated. And as Fern said, you might even feel the need to in a new account, the need to prove yourself all over again. And I, as a firsthand witness account of, you know, what happened to him, I watched him lose it. I saw him start a new one. I saw his, you know, following Bill back up. And yes, he used the resources at his disposal to, you know, help that. Speed along quicker, the follower growth quicker. But in the process, he really discovered that the audience didn't define his worth. As an artist, his work speaks for itself. His personality speaks for itself, and his clients are gonna find him no matter what period. Number three, this one goes out to all my boys and makeup or any non-binary angels in makeup, or even women in makeup who feel like they're being discriminated against as an artist because of something as insubstantial as their size or their appearance or the color of their skin. Or maybe you've got a tattoo that people don't like, I don't know. But there is room for each and every single one of us in this industry, and you simply cannot allow anyone to let you feel any differently. I've actually witnessed this firsthand while I was working alongside a male makeup artist. Somewhat recently. The father of the groom walked in towards the end of the makeup application. You know, as I do, they get to see the first look and all this sort of thing, and he was kind of standing back there and. I'm not even gonna do the voice. Um, the father of the groom voice. But, you know, he starts making comments that were essentially, you know, saying that all this stuff, aka all the makeup, you know, was so unnecessary. And no, she, she doesn't need it. Love. You don't need it. You're beautiful without it. But, you know, the person who is talking to is like, Oh, your turn next, You know, the classic father of the groom joke, right? And she's like, Oh, Jeff or Dave or whatever. He was your turn next. And he's like, Oh, no, no, no place for men. No place for men in, Oh, wasn't the, And I did I to his job, whatever it is, and started implying that like he shouldn't be doing it. Like how disrespectful that, that comment was to the artist who was working, who was well, he is male. Apps are fucking lonely. Not grow up The fact that you exist, I'm talking to you, whoever is listening, the fact that you exist is a miracle. So do not shrink yourself down to fit into anyone else's idea of what they want you to be. It is your only job on this earth to be exactly who you want to be. Huh? Wow. Did I just turn into Oprah Winfrey?, Guys, that's enough. That's enough for me. I'm in the process of coordinating the next very exciting interview. I think you guys will all be a little bit surprised of who's coming next. It's gonna be really good one, pretty different style from Fern, so like to keep it fresh. If there's anyone in particular that you want me to have on the show that you want me to talk to, or if there are topics that you want me to talk about in a solo episode, please let me know. For example, I've been thinking recently that maybe it would be fun to do like a manufacturing type episode where I talk you through like what goes into building a brand and how I made the makeup cleaning mess, things like that. If there's anything you wanna know, let me know. I will find out for you. I will make an episode with you. If you, there's anyone you want back, let me know. But in the meantime, guys, come follow me on social media. Canditt, Boost up my numbers, . You can find me on Instagram and TikTok at Beth Wilson underscore mua. You can follow the brand Saint Jack on Instagram. That's at b y Saint Jack by Saint Jack or on TikTok. Where? At Saint Jack Cosmetics. I still haven't managed to get the guy on Instagram who has the handle at Saint Jack to reply to my DM begging, give it to me. So yeah, we're still in the process. A journey, man. Life's a journey. See then love.