Elona Commerell is one of Perth's finest makeup artists. In this episode of Behind the Brush, Elona shares how she started her career behind the counter in retail, before going full-time freelance, discovering her love for educating and opening her own studio, MUSE.
Listen as Elona and Beth talk about juggling the pressures of working for yourself, why your career trajectory does *not* have to be linear and what YOU can learn from a piece of marble (yes, you read that right)!
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Elona Commerell is one of Perth's finest makeup artists. In this episode of Behind the Brush, Elona shares how she started her career behind the counter in retail, before going full-time freelance, discovering her love for educating and opening her own studio, MUSE.
Listen as Elona and Beth talk about juggling the pressures of working for yourself, why your career trajectory does *not* have to be linear and what YOU can learn from a piece of marble (yes, you read that right)!
Episode resources:
If you enjoyed this episode then please either:
This is Behind The Brush by Saint Jack. Like you could hit it 99 times and the marble won't crack, but it's that hundredth time that seemingly the marble will just crack in two. But it's easy to think that it's just that one strike. But it's actually like the compounded pressure that has been imposed over time. And it's one of those things where like everything happens as it should. And I think as a makeup artist, all you need to do is keep your head down and focus on what you are doing and what makes your heart sing. I know it sounds so corny, but it is so true. Just focus on what you really love to do and what Mark you want to make and people pick up on. Hello and welcome back to Behind, The Brush. It's me, It's Beth, your host makeup artist and founder of Saint Jack. Cosmetics. How I, uh, . I am good. I am feeling a little bit out of my depth because I am recording this from the closest thing to a professional podcast studio I have ever been in. I have a coworking space. And there are multiple sites in different suburbs, and one of the other sites, so not the one that I actually work from, has a podcast studio in it. And I decided after almost a year of doing this show that it was about damn time, as Lizzo would say, to get into a more professional setting and out of my house. And the reason why I made this decision is because of a very sad tale that I am about to tell you which directly relates to today's guest. So I asked today's guest to come onto the podcast almost immediately after arranging the interview with Fernando because I was like, I'm gonna be organized, we're gonna get on it. And I knew that I wanted her on the show next, So I'm talking. Lona Camal, an absolute angel . So I organized to record the podcast with her a week ago, and I did everything the same as I've always done. I have a microphone that I've always had that I bought at JB a year ago, like SISs. You know, I didn't know anything about podcasting, and then I just decided I wanted to do a show. I didn't understand the technicalities of everything, so I set up my little microphone that I plug into my six year old MacBook and. For the first time ever in the month or so since I've moved house, I was having insane internet problems. And we record the podcast like online, obviously , because Elina lives in Perth and I live in Melbourne and my internet was just bugging the whole time and there was a lag and it was dropping out and I had to leave a couple times cuz my internet was just killing me. And then at the end of the show, it was just taking a really long time to upload to the place it's meant to upload. And I was thinking to myself, this just does not feel right. And I just had this gut feeling that something about the recording wasn't going to work. And. I was right, because often our gut feelings are right, and a few hours later, after waiting hours and hours and hours to see whether or not it was going to work, I discovered that only 10% of Alone's audio had actually uploaded. So there was only six minutes of her talking. There was an whole hour of me talking, but talking to myself, because we only had six minutes of her talking, I was mortified. I was so embarrassed, but I was just heartbroken because it's one thing for me to waste my own time with something as stupid as the internet not working. But it's a whole other thing to waste someone else's time, especially someone who I admire and respect so much, who is so busy, who has so much going on and out of the kindness of her heart was like, Yes, I would love to come on your show. And then I had to text her later that night and be like, Sis, it didn't work. Is there any chance you would trust me again? To give it another go. So she kindly obliged, which I still cannot believe. And for that reason I have decided that I never wanna record the podcast with the guest in my house ever again in case something goes horribly wrong. Uh, and now we're in this professional dig. So the audio might sound a little bit different. I hope it sounds a little bit better. And yeah, look, I mean, I speak to the makeup artists who come on my show before the show, after the show, and build really great relationships with them. It's not very often, in fact, it's never happened that I've had the opportunity to have the same chat twice. So in the first take of this conversation, you know, I had questions that I wanted to ask and I was waiting on answers and I didn't know what they would be. And I had like a timeline of what Alone's history was and you know, how her career had transpired up until now. But now, As if she's my new best friend, I know her story, I know her history. I know what you know inspires her as an artist. So this second take of the conversation is actually a privilege because we get to have a much more natural chat and just talk shit about artistry and career and how, you know, she thinks that you could take your career to the next level, and that is truly a silver lining to what. Just a horrifying situation for me last week. Like I was so embarrassed and so upset and I just, alone's, generosity has just blown me away. So let's get into it in case you dunno who alone a comrade is, and if that is the case, please pause the podcast right now and search her Instagram and take a look at her work so that you understand the kind of mastery we are talking about alone is a makeup artist based out of Perth and she is actually the first makeup artist I've had on the show from Perth. A little side note there, Penny Anir, God bless her, is from Perth, but she now lives in Brisbane. But I mean like alone is actually in Perth right now. So she left school in year 11. Jill was like, Nope, this isn't for me. I'm gonna do a hair dressing apprenticeship. And she did that for around a year before realizing that's not for me. And she pivoted into makeup and she never looked back. She worked at Napoleon before getting her dream job at Mac, and she worked her way up from store hosts to events artist, and then finally becoming assistant store manager all the while building her freelance career on the side in December, 2020. So almost two years ago now, she opened the most glamorous, perfectly pink studio in the heart of Perth called Muse. She has a team of amazing artists working with her daily and has now started her own makeup academy, which just blows me away. And I honestly wish that there was something like that available to me in Melbourne when I had started out in 2016. Look, let's be real. If I didn't love Alone before we recorded take one of this interview, I for sure love her now having experience firsthand her true warmth and generosity as a human being. On top of that, my God, she is a talented artist. Guys, that is enough for me. These intros get longer and longer. I'm trying to cut them down. I'm so sorry. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Aona Alona, welcome back to Behind. The Brush. Thank you. Beth. It feels good to be back. Oh my God, it's good to be back exactly one week later in exactly the same circumstances, to have the same chat I just mentioned to you that I said, you know, I'm gonna tell everyone in the intro what happened. But yeah, it was such a saga. But we're just gonna have the same great chat all over again, and I bet you it's gonna be even better. I think so. I think so too. So we'll jump straight in because , which is so funny because you've already given me so much of your time in this life. Oh my God, how will I ever repay you? Tell everyone, what did you wanna be when you grew up? All right. When I was a little girl, I really wanted to be a vet because I was a huge animal lover, and I think it was like year eight we did, we started doing biology in school and then I very quickly realized that along with understanding biology and being a vet, that meant surgery and blood and like sad animals. And so that was very quickly just off the table . It was off the table for me, not a vet anymore. Yeah, look that I can't deal with blood. I also can't deal with sad animals. I'm looking at my dog. When I left the house today, I was like, I'm so sorry. I was so sorry. I wish you could come with me so it's too much. But so you ended up, obviously you went to school for a time, but you left school early. So tell everyone a bit about that and what you did when you left. Yeah, so I would've left school around year 11. I wasn't super engaged with the high school education system as it was. So I guess back then being a makeup artist wasn't really much of a career path at all. So being someone that wanted to work in some form of the beauty industry, I had an interest in hair. So hair was the best option for me because obviously you could do an apprenticeship. There were, at the time, like it was more of a solid job prospect. So I did hair for about a year. That came to an end, and then that came to an end, and then I ended up wanting, I had the intention of going back to hair, but I just thought I wanted some time away from the industry first. So then I thought I'll just do. Makeup. And then it was just one of those things where I studied a diploma of makeup and special effects, and that was literally just because I was like, If I'm gonna do a course, I may as well just go the whole hog and do the longest one available. And then it was literally like the Which is so funny because I feel like a lot of people will be like, If I'm gonna do a course, I might just like dip my toe in. But you're like, Nope, I'm gonna do all of it. I'm gonna do special effects, Everything. If I'm gonna do it, I'll just do all of I love it. it was the best decision ever. The very first day I walked in there, I remember I made eye contact with this boy and we are like best friends to this day. We just like locked eyes. We just like gave each other a little smirk and then like, I think we did a face chart on the first day and I was like, this is so much fun. And I just, ever since then, the rest is history. Wow. So what year was that that you studied? Because you've been in the industry for about a decade, right? So that would've been in 2012. So I would've just, I would've, I would've been in what would've been year. So this is your decade. This year is your decade of being in the industry, being the queen. Yes. So you did the course, so how long did that run for? It was six months, six months, three full days a week, and then two non-contact days. So it was technically full-time study. Wow. Love that for you.. I wish I had just had the balls to do that. Like I was such a nerd in high school that not only did I just see it through, even though I wasn't like, I don't know, some of the stuff I found really interesting, but others I was like, I'm just doing this because I have to. I sometimes wish I just had the balls like you to just pursue what I actually loved. I was really lucky. My mom has always been someone that never really like. Didn't really impose that ideology like, you need to go to university, you need to get a good education so that you can make lots of money and buy a house and settle down. You know, it was, She was awesome because she was always like encouraging me to sort of follow what I was passionate about. So I was really lucky that at that young age I had that support where she was like, No, like, whatever you wanna do, I'll support you or explore. We can figure it out and then see where it goes from there. And like, I think I'm really lucky that I had that support because otherwise, you know, if I was encouraged to go to uni, I probably would've studied a degree that I probably wouldn't be using today. Uh, you mean exactly like I did Yeah. That, that Bachelor of Arts in Criminology is really serving me so well. Yeah. I mean my parents are super supportive as well, like, especially now that I think, like I've found my path and I think a couple years into it they saw, Okay, makeup can be a job. It's so funny, I have a sticker on my computer at the moment and it says, Social media is a real job, mom. And it's just like, you know, creating, creating content, doing makeup, all that stuff. And it's like, my parents are super supportive, but there was a time there where my mom was like, You're either gonna get a proper job or you're going to uni. So I was like, All right, I guess I'll do both. But anyway, it's not about me. So what did you do after the diploma? After that I was so ready. I was like, I am a makeup artist. You know? I was like so into it. I was so ready to start working. So I applied at Napoleon. So I would've started at Napoleon like just after I turned 17. And that was a great first stepping stone because like first day in, there was someone that sat down was like, I just wanna get my makeup done and just buy all new everything. And then we're like, Oh, Lona, that's perfect. You, there you go. First person, like straight off the press. And I was like, What? Okay, doing a full makeup, I can do that, I think. But then like trying to sell product, I was, I had no idea. But you know, it was such a great experience because, They just throw you in there. They're like, Cool, you work for Napoleon now do it. Do the thing. So it was amazing because on Saturdays we were just doing back to back makeups like all day. So you learn timing, you learn working with diverse ranges of people. The range was a bit smaller as well. So I think as a new artist it's easier to wrap your head around cuz there's less foundation shades, which is a blessing and a curse I think now that I like know more. But this, so the range was a lot smaller so it was easier to sort of navigate and build an understanding of product knowledge and that sort of thing. And just like a great experience. I worked with a really small team. I think there was like three or four of us and we became really close and yeah, that was really, really fun. And I was at Napoleon for about. To eight months. It wasn't a huge amount of time. And then by that time, I had applied at Mac and the only reason why I didn't apply at Mac initially was just because I just sort of got in my own head. I just thought, you know, if I, you know, I'm not one of the Mac girls and at that level I need to get more experience and be a certain caliber before I even consider applying because you know, that was just the perception that I had. So anyways, when I finally did I like, you know, once I started working at Mac, I was like, Oh my God, oh my God, this is it for me. It was so exciting. the cult. I'm part of the popular girls. Yeah. I'm in the cold and it's so funny, like even in my interview, I remember wearing like this, there's a really dark lipstick called Sabar. It's like this deep, deep. Eggplant color. And I remember like going into this interview with like a slick ponytail and this cyber lipstick on and I was like, Pick me . I am one of you. So that was so funny. And yeah, that was awesome. And then Mac was a different experience. So I was there for about three years. So a longer period of time from, and it was like a few days after I turned 18 that I started there. So I was obviously like thriving, just like beaming off the fact that I was a fully fledged adult and had scored what was my dream job at the time. And so it was a bit different at Mac, like it was a much bigger team. I think there was like 10 to 15 people on this counter and makeups that would only, you would only as a Mac artist do like one make up a weekend, but you would work with so, so many people, you know, way bigger, like understanding of like foundation matching and that sort of thing. So that was obviously such a great experience. Mm. I do feel like this is just like my experience working alongside different makeup artists here and there. I do feel like there is something to be said about people who have worked at Mac just really understand foundation matching. There's something about it because the range is like so extensive that they just really get it and like undertones and things like that in a way that maybe some freelance makeup artists who haven't worked in retail don't have that just like off the bat, like they have to really work at it. It's so true. It is so true. And I think it was just a thing because there were so many foundations. And I remember when I first started there, you know, I would look at someone's skin and I'd grab like, you know, like a couple of shades in, like a cool tone, couple shades in a warm tone, and like try and match it. And then by the time you get to the end and you'd finally get the color, they'd be. So many bottles of foundation that you tried cuz you're like, not that, not quite that, this, that, not quite that. And you're having to navigate it so much. And then towards the end you'd look at someone, you'd be like, Oh, you're this color. And then you'd grab it, but then you'd grab another shade next to it so that they would know what it's, you know, like if you watch the right color, they'd be like, How do you know? Yeah. Cause I just do honey I'm a magician. Okay. Yeah. Lots and lots of trial and error that you have not seen Yeah, exactly. So when you were working at Mac, I mean like obviously you were working on counter and you just mentioned you didn't get to do as much makeup when you were working in stock. Cuz obviously you're waiting for people to come in and be like, Oh yeah, I need this lipstick. I'm going out tonight. Or I need a powder. Like, which one do you recommend? It's like a different kind of kettle of fish. But you told me in Take one that you kind of progressed from working in store and you were chosen for the events artistry team. So tell everyone a little bit more about that and what that Right. So that was, that was so, so much fun. So essentially to be an events team, artist Mac do certain certifications to be able to progress in terms of what you're allowed to do in and then outta store. So at the beginning you do like a certification to be able to do like a makeup application and then like lesson, and then you work your way up. You have to go through these tiers and then you do outside of store artistry assessments. And then there's like, you know, you have to re, the first one is like you have to recreate a certain makeup to like recreate an image exactly as the image is. This is training you for backstage, there was a backstage element and then there was like advanced. And then after you've completed all of those, then you can apply for the events team, which you then had to like, you know, you literally had to apply for it, you get interviewed and stuff. So getting to work on the events team, I was like, Oh my God, yay. You know, you can work you. So what essentially that means is it means that you can you get pulled out of store whenever there are any, like fashion shows or PR events that Mac are like working on or sponsoring. Obviously in like little Perth, there wasn't a huge amount, but like, Perth Fashion Festival was a massive one. And Anit born like a number of other fashion shows that would come to Perth. What did you just say, Oh my god. It's, it's, it's so funny. I feel like everyone in WA is like, Oh yeah, Buit. But yeah, fully. So it's, it's a non-for-profit ball that is made for breast cancer awareness and it's actually one of the Oh wow. Okay. wa. There's like a full fashion show, dances, everything, so it's like a ball and a show and it's so much fun. Oh my God. Amazing And it says the word boobs. And we love that. I was like listening and then I was like, Hang on, did she just say boo dalicious? I was like, What? So that's really cool. So I guess, is that where you like started getting your, I guess, taste for like colorful more editorial style makeup during those, you know, that era? Yeah. I, I think that was definitely the beginning of it, because I guess backstage makeup is just so different from like Instagram makeup or makeup that you see. On counter when people are just sort of like wanting to get their, you know, their makeup done for a night out. Like the skin is so, so, so pulled back. And then there's just like one key focus and one element. And I think working underneath like other talented artists and recreating their vision and their work, I think it's is is such a great learning experience cuz it goes beyond sort of what your interpretation of it is and then it's you sort of putting aside what your personal style is and then completely embodying someone else's. And I think, you know, obviously not all the time, it's so great to cultivate your own personal style, but I think it teaches you so much about like how to understand. The way that things are applied and how people work with product and how that goes beyond how you would sort of do it. And I think it challenges your skill to be able to sort of like recreate something to a tee as well rather than like that's closest enough. That's the gist. And so that was really fun and being able to do stuff that was outside of just that regular makeup. I think that definitely was a, a catalyst for it. But I guess when I started sort of cultivating my own personal style, it probably would've been like after I started freelancing for some time it was once I started renting a small studio space and I think cuz I was paying like a weekly rent, I just thought, well I bet may as well utilize the time that I'm in here. So that's when I started getting models to come in midweek when I wasn't doing bookings. And then I would just do content, you know, we would just like, You know, look up like a color palette or like, you know, makeup inspiration, like a couple of photos and sort of blend them all together and recreate something and make it your own. But I think it was from there that I think I really started to cultivate like an idea of like what I like to play with and what I like to do. And I think that's when I started just really throwing color at people. You know, Yeah, like a paint gun. So I mean, you just mentioned the studio space, which is the one that you rented before you made your own, which we'll get to a bit later. But just to kind of fill everyone in, because you were working at Mac for about three years, but you also started freelancing on the side. And so I mean, you know, I've, I've spoken to so many people on the show before who've kind of done both at the same time and you kind of just like manage it. Something that I'm personally struggling with at the moment is kind of wearing all the different hats of all the different things in my business. And I think when you're working in retail and then when you're also doing freelance, that it's really hard to just like do everything all at once. And I just like wonder how you cope with that, Like how you cope with that transitional phase between becoming a freelancer who was then going to rent some studio space to work in while also being in retail. You know what I mean? Totally. Well, I think like back then Instagram was a bit different, so it was a lot easier. Just I think like I had one Instagram, I was already posting stuff when I worked on counter, like of cool makeup looks that we got to do cuz they really allowed that and cultivated that as well. So then I, while I was still working full-time at Mac, I got promoted to Toic and the roster is Sunday to Thursday, so that means that I get Fridays and Saturdays off. So while I had that time off, that's when I started freelancing and taking bookings. Prior to that I was probably having to turn away more than I could take, you know, just cuz I was working every Friday and Saturday. And that's a bit disappointing as well, you know, when you like love your job but then you know that the money that you could have earned, taking that one to two faces probably could have, like that would equal the whole day's work. Yeah, yeah, for myself in a pretty like comfortable little spot there where I was able to take bookings and build my freelance business as well as still have the security of full-time work and not leave Mac. Cause I wasn't ready to leave Mac at that time either. I still loved it so much. So I started doing that and I guess, you know, with Instagram then it was just like, you know, you just had to be consistent and just post photos, Mm-hmm. I guess it was a little bit easier. There wasn't so much that element of like content creation where you have to, you know, almost create a set where there's the perfect lighting and this and that. It would honestly just be, you know, freelancing. You like the makeup, you take the photo, And that was enough. up the brightness, and that was enough. Yeah, exactly. Cause it's like, I think a lot of people who do listen to this show are probably more towards like the earlier years of their career and maybe they weren't working in that kind of golden era of Instagram that you are talking about, which is really maybe like 20 17, 20 18, where it was just so much easier. And sometimes I think back on it and just in so many ways, I'm like, why didn't I do that while while I had the chats, while it was so easy. And now it's like not only do you have to be a makeup artist, you've gotta be a videographer. You've gotta know how to make, you know the production design. You're right, it is like a set, It's like everything in the background has to be perfect. It's gotta fit the aesthetic. You've gotta know how to edit the video to a certain sound. You've gotta know what sound is like cool at the time, which by the way, hint for everyone. Anything that's like cool on TikTok right now will be cool on Instagram in like three weeks. So that's my hot tip for you. But it's very different now. It's very different. so different. So I guess I was lucky back then cuz it was just a matter of just sort of like posting, It didn't my, my grin didn't need to have an aesthetic. It was. Beautiful makeup, just back to back makeup that I was creating. So that was a little bit easier. And then obviously like once my freelance business had sort of built up to the point where I was like fully booked on like Saturdays and Fridays, then it kind of got to a point where I was working seven days a week. I mean, this is what I wanna know though. It's like when you are at that stage, and I know that, I know that like right now, like where you are in your career right now, you are working so hard and like so many hours I'm sure. But it's like when you are working seven days, when you're doing five days in store and two days freelance, like honestly, like how the fuck do you cope with that Because it's like, yes, you have the time off and then you take the bookings, but it's like, where's your me time? You know? To be honest, I Where is it? I think the work life balance, like my personal life, just like, I think it was hard because I was so young, like I was 19, 20 years old at this time. So I was like, I would work all week and then I would still wanna be able to maintain a social life cause I was young, so I would still, you know, go to my friend's birthdays. I'd still go out. And then I think at that age you can just operate on slightly less sleep. And then I would just like go work the Friday, work the Saturday and
then I would have an 11:00 AM start on Sunday and then just like make it off the hair of my tail and then just spend the rest of the week. Like I'd come home on a Sunday and Monday night and just like make sure I'm resting, relaxing my Yeah. Oh my God. through it. You've just unlocked a core memory of like very, very early in my career, like not sleeping enough, going out way too late, not being quite well, and being like, I'll be fine on this job, and just like pulling it together. Whereas like these days, if I'm working the next day, exactly these days, if I'm working the next day, even if it's like midday, like a midday wedding on something, it's like best believer I'm in
bed at 9:30 PM with my book. Because if I do anything different to that, I'm wrecked. Yeah, . I'm like, I need a full eight hours. I need to have a Blauer GI breakfast so I don't get hungry like everything It's so true. It's so true and embarrassing, but you know, I feel like everyone gets to have their time where they're young and stupid and they're like, Oh, it's okay. I can stay out till X time, or I can drink this or do that, or whatever, and it'll be fine, but not anymore. I'm too old for that now you your body captures up with you. So I think at the time it worked well for me because my body was like, I can do anything. My brain was like, Yes, we can. You know? And it worked. It definitely worked for a period of time. my God. So good. get it done, don't you? You do, You gotta do what you gotta do. So you obviously, you leave Mac, you go work at that studio, so you're paying rent. So this is a big deal. It's like when you start paying rent to work in a space rather than being paid to work in a space, right? So rather than being paid to work in retail, you're now paying someone else to rent a space and it is solely your responsibility to fill it right and make money in it. You obviously had clients that you'd built up in those kind of two days freelancing, but I'm assuming that you would've met people along the way while you were working in retail. What was it like those first few years working in that studio space and did you feel comfortable, like in, you know, that you were gonna make money or were you stressed? Like what was the tea? the, at the beginning. I think there's always, I think whenever you leave like a secure full-time job that there, it's, it's, it is so inevitable that you will have a thought that says to yourself, like, that self-doubt that just says, But what if I can't? So I think that is so natural and I think that you would be like a superhuman if you didn't have that thought, because it's important, I think, to like understand risk in life. I think that I did sort of give myself a bit of a crossover. So when I left Mac, I started working casually at a makeup school. So it started off me just doing, you know, like a beginner's course on a Monday night from six till nine. So it's just three hours and then I. you were taking as in like you were hosting, I don't know what the right word is, Taking lecturing. That would be the professional word. I started lecturing at a makeup school. Correct. So I did that and then that sort of built up to me doing like the, the course was called Industry Ready. So that was like the entry level, you know, beginners to advanced course. And that was two days a week on a Monday and Tuesday day. And that was great, you know, that's awesome because I got to immerse myself with makeup still. I got to talk about makeup in a different way. And I think teaching and, and being in that education side is so enriching. So I had that and that gave me, it didn't give me like a lot of money cuz it was only like two short days a week. But it gave me enough to sort of take the pressure. Of me having, you know, feeling that like the real, the real pressure of making sure that I get bookings every single hour of every single Saturday. So I guess there was that nice little buffer that sort of carried it through while I waited for my freelance business to grow. But yeah, I think I was really lucky that, you know, I think by that point there was enough I was getting enough work that I was able to sort of like continue posting and I think, cause I had like those few days off in the week then, then I could also like do my own private content as well as lecturing and talking to people. And word of mouth is like such a great asset for a small business, especially when you're working so closely. It's such an interpersonal job. And I guess maybe luckily that we're in Perth, like so many people know each other. So I guess you could talk and spread the word about people that you like. Yeah, so true. I mean, I think it's so great that you were doing like that other job as well, and that you will like speak about that as kind of being your buffer, right? Because it's in the same industry, it's in the same line of work, but it's like there's some stability there that helps you feel more comfortable and it's like, it might not be part of like your career being on a straight line trajectory, but it's all kind of adding up to the same thing. And I think sometimes people feel like, I've gotta be a freelancer and I've just gotta make all my money doing like bang, bang, bang makeup appointments after the other, and like there's no room for anything else. But I just think that that's like not true. And I think it's a great reminder for people to know. It's like, not that I think that you would feel any shame for like, you know, having this other job, but it's like, it's something that I, I would like to encourage, you know, to have that stability, to give you the freedom to be like, Okay, then I don't have to spend every single minute stressing out that I don't have appointments. I can take three hours out to do content. Yeah, and I, I'm a big believer that I think, like whenever I'm talking to anyone that wants to freelance, like the bookings don't come straight away. And I think with anyone, like any business, even outside of makeup, I think it takes up to two years, I think to have like a solid, consistent freelance network of like clientele that will give you consistent work where you are busy but booked and busy. I think it takes two years to get to that point. So I, I think that there's definitely like that o like there needs to be a crossover between having your secure full-time work and then slowly creating more space for your freelance work to come in. You know, obviously there's some people that do it in different ways. Some people will maintain their full time, like Monday to Friday jobs and just work Saturdays and Sundays freelancing or whatever works for you. But I think that there's no linear way of doing it. And just because you're a freelancer doesn't mean that you have to do, like you said, solely that and, you know, exclude anything at. Else as well. Yeah, it's just so interesting and it's not something I've shared on the podcast before because it's not my story to tell, and maybe I'll get this particular artist on the show one day because she's super talented. She's based here in Melbourne. But I went to a dinner at some point last year, it must have been around about a year ago, and sitting around this really nice dinner table with like lots of really established Melbourne makeup artists. And one of them was like, you know, I actually work two or three days a week in an administrative job. I think it was like in an accounting or a law firm or something like that. And she's like, And I. I love it and it, you know, it's a different part of my brain that gets unlocked and it's like, and I do that, you know, in the earlier days of the week, like Monday through Wednesday maybe, and then on the weekends and on Friday or whatever I do, you know, makeups and things like that. And she's like, I love having that balance. And I just think it's important. And I know that, you know, obviously your career has, you know, transformed since then. But at that particular point, I think it's important to say to people, it's like you can make makeup artistry work for you in so many different ways. Like it does not have to be this whole, I've got full time, I've got this, I've got that. To be successful, it can look like whatever you want it to look like. Like I don't talk about it very often, but like I myself have like quite a few different jobs on the go to make it possible for me to do all the things that I wanna do, like with this podcast, with my brand, like everything. And it's like you just have to make it work for you. And we're lucky that we can do that. You know? That's my ramp for the day, Yep. Totally. And that's the thing. The job is fluid. And I think for me, my goal when I was freelancing was if I could just get a fully booked Saturday, if I could make sure I get eight bookings a week, that is enough money for me to be able to pay my house, rent my studio, rent everything else that I need. And anything plus beyond that is amazing. But that was, . That was my target, you know, And I think if you can work towards that, you know, it's totally doable If you just have like a clear, like set line side of like what at least you wanna sort of gain out of that as well. Plus the teaching was so enriching. Like that was, you know, that that really made me realize how much I loved being in a place of education and actually sharing knowledge and not just doing makeup and applying, but actually like helping people grow and helping them learn. And like I was just thriving in that environment. I just had like, had the biggest smile on my face the whole time. The days would go so quick. Be excited for the next week. That's so beautiful by the way. Cuz you hear sometimes teachers are like, Ugh, like it's so annoying. Or PE sometimes people just find teaching others how to do simple things. Really frustrating. Like, for example, me trying to teach my parents how to do anything with technology or their iPhone, but , that's like one thing that really grabs my gears very easily. But do you think that that like kind of teaching, like is that something that comes to you quite naturally or was that something that you had to work at? Because I think it's quite different to be able to articulate what you're doing right to students and like explain things rather than just like doing makeup on someone yourself and never having to explain it. Yeah, look, it was never something that I really, throughout my life had always been that, that I was really aware of that I did, you know, like throughout my life it wasn't like I was constantly like trying to teach people how to do everything that I knew. It was sort of like once I got into a place with makeup, where I guess I'd sort of reached a place where I felt like I had like mastered it to a, to a degree where I felt like I could share knowledge and you know, started doing a beginner's course. And then it wasn't until I was just sort of doing it that I was like, Oh wow, I really enjoy this. And I actually really liked talking about the why. And I think it's one of those things where I think it really helps you realize as an artist, like how much you actually know. When you start talking about why you do something, how you're holding that, what the, you know what you're trying to create the steps to be able to do that. When someone asks you a question and you're like, Oh, great question. It's because of this, and then you realize that you actually know all of the answers. I just found like that was the thing that I think I sort of surprised myself and was like, Oh wow, this is actually something that I really, really love and really enjoy and know enough about that I can like share a level of expertise. Interrupting this episode of me talking with more of me talking. It's Beth, the founder of Saint Jack, and I just wanted to quickly remind you that the Makeup Cleaning Miss is a must have Your Professional Artistry kit made with the highest quality alcohol, so it absorbs quickly and smells so good. The Miss kills the bacteria on the surface of all of your products, like your eyeshadow, palettes, Bronzes, blushes, everything, so everything can stay nice and clean between clients proudly Australian Made. Get your hands on the MIS online at ww dot Saint Jack dot com au and use code Brush 15 to join the hundreds of other artists like 10 Neil Jay Penny Anto, and Jack Kale, who always had the miss by their side. Now let's get back to the show. And you can make it work so good. How lucky. How lucky those students are. But also there are more students right now, and we'll talk about that in just a second because you've obviously since started your own academy, which is so lit. It's so cool. But I just kind of wanted to touch on before we talk about the studio, because it's so amazing when you were doing those years of freelancing, like you do so much kind of work. Like I really encourage everyone to take a look at alone's Instagram. If you don't, you know, haven't familiarized yourself. It's like you've got color, you've got brighter, you've got soft lamb, you've got this, you've got that, right? It's like, was there anything in those years where you started freelancing where you're like, I'm really drawn to this. Like this really feeds my soul. Like if it was editorial or bridal, you know, have you kind of like pick a lane? Was there something that really stood out to you in the work you ask you this question all the time. They're always like, What's your favorite? I. Yeah. I swerve all over the lanes. I find it really hard to decide. find it really hard to d . Yeah, that's just me. Like spoon. Um, like I, I think I, I think, I think I'm like, naturally I'm the kind of person that needs to be quite engaged, otherwise I get bored quite quickly. And I think that if I had to pick one, it was like, if I had to pick my favorite food until like, to eat until the day that I die, I just wouldn't be able to, Cause I'd be like, Oh, but what about this? And what about that? And I also really love this, so I think I love that like boot, like editorial, like that glam editorial where it's like a bit more pretty than your, than your, you know, traditional editorial makeup, which is lot, a lot more like artistic and a bit more avantgarde. Like, I'll stick a lash on there and like a really highlight, really pretty highlight in, in a corner and I'll, you know, Add a pretty highlight, you know, so I, I like to make it a slightly more glam, I guess. But I think with me, I think what I love about makeup is just like how diverse it can be. Like I love doing that, like no makeup, makeup where it's just skin care and the science bit of concealer and it just looks like raw skin. And just then I love that. But I also love just going, you know, the full ty as well. So it's just so hard to pick. And then I also love, I was just laughing. I was, I was just laughing at the use of the expression, the poor, like, oh my God. Is it 90, 98? Yeah, I think it's really hard for me to pick a lane. It's so hard. I like all of it. I really do. I think Well, to be honest, You're good at all of it, so you don't, you can screw, screw it all over, you know, all over the makeup land if you want. That's totally fine. I was just like curious to know, cuz like you really do like nail the kind of classic glam, like the kind of makeup that you would want to wear when you were gonna run into your ex-boyfriend. You're really good at that sort of thing. Like I just look so hot right now. You're so good at that. But like you're also I've lost it. But you're also so like good with color and with shapes and it's like geometric and you've got gems and you've got other shit that you're sticking on people's face. Like what inspires you? Like where does that sort of part of your artistry that more like, I guess like fun, colorful stuff come from? all sorts of places. I think like, you know, I will just walk up and down the aisles of like Spotlight and Kmart, anywhere that has like an art and craft section. And I'll just like see if there's any little like stickers or like glitters or anything that sort of catches my eye that I'm like, I will figure out a way to incorporate this and put this on someone that there's a will, there's a way. So I'll literally just will always, and I'm such a mag Pi as well, so I'm a sucker for anything like sparkly or pretty. So I'm like, Ooh, I'll make it work. So there's that, I guess for just like finding inspiration in that way. And you know, there's a number of artists that, like, I look up to so much on Instagram as well, and I'm sure everyone has those artists as well. So I guess there's, there's them Anyone you wanna shout out? Nikki makeup is probably my number one. She's, She's the queen. She's the queen, really is. Also, can we just talk about how her voice is like the most soothing thing in the world? And she'll always upload her tutorials and they feel like they come up on like a Sunday morning, like Australia time and you know, your girl's been like, You know, drinking or whatever the night before. And then I turn on Nikki makeup and then she's like, and blah, blah blah. And she's like applying moisturizer to someone's face and it's like the most soothing thing I've ever seen in my life. And I'm like, I could actually watch this all day. This is my asmr. Yeah, fully. And I've actually learned so much from those tutorials as well, just like seeing the way that Same. with the product because I feel like it's so effortless and light and she doesn't, she doesn't even try. She just does it. So that's incredible. So I mean, I look up to her a lot in terms of like her skin and just like how she curates makeup. But then obviously Pinterest, like I've just got Pinterest boards where I will just like save anything that catches my eye if I'm like, Oh, that's an interesting shape, or that's some cool colors, or this or that. I'll just like make a big board and I just like to mash up a few different looks. Like if I'm planning content with someone, I'll literally just like pull a couple of screenshots and then just, you know, maybe use colors from one, the shape from one and like, you know, something from another, like another element from another, like maybe a small detail. And then just figure out a way to sort of blend. all together just to make it individual, but also, you know, like that's the best way to sort of learn what you can and can't do, what you're good at, what your strong points are. Cuz you know, if you, unless you just really just like try and put pen to paper or like Brush to face, you know, I think that you, you don't, you don't really know what you are capable of doing either, so you just kind of have to just like create a safe space with the model that doesn't mind if you fuck it up. And just like, and just like, you know, go to It's so true. You know? Oh my God, you've unlocked another memory for me. I, I reckon it was like the beginning of 2020, which is a perfect segue cuz we're gonna talk about 2020 in a second. I, I got a model in and it was like the first time that I got her in, I did like a full day at a salon that I rented a chair up for that one day. And I had one model in the morning and one model in the afternoon. I was like, Yeah, I'm gonna bang out so much content, like this is gonna be awesome. And then I did this like green look on her that was inspired by she artistry and Perth like Sam, look, you know. love Sam. Yeah, yeah. Sam. Yeah. She's amazing. Like I'm obsessed with her. I'll drop her handle in the show notes because I can't remember exactly what it's, I think it's she makeup artistry. Anyway, she's amazing. makeup artistry. Thank God somebody's on the ball today. Um, , but she did this amazing green look and she like posted like a real of kind of what she had to do it. And this was like in the middle of lockdowns here. So like I didn't have, you know, too much access to go into store and buy things, but I had all the stuff that she used and I was basically like, I can recreate that. And like, I still air down this girl, she's so beautiful. Her name's Bree and she came in, she looked really great, but it was not the sort of thing like it was bright, bright green. Look, it's not the sort of thing you wanna be walking down the street in. And then so I like follow her on her personal Instagram or whatever. She's taken the hottest photo of herself, but she's like, it's, it was probably like May and she was like a full Grinch moment and I was like, Oh no. I was like, I'm so sorry It's like the things we do to these girls, But I was like, Thank you so much. Thank you so much for your time. But anyway, look, that's just, that's my trauma that I'll deal with later. But I wanted to talk to you about 2020 because that's when you opened your studio. So let's talk people through this, because obviously we're not gonna talk about lockdown because it sucks. But we'll just say we were in lockdown and you started having a feeling that you maybe wanted to open your own space. So let's talk through that. Yeah, so I guess like in the middle of lockdown, I, I had moved out of the other studio that I was in just because, because I couldn't work, so I was just chilling at home. And I guess where I guess we're all, if I really go back to like the genesis of it all, it would've been like my sister and I would've just been bored on the phone, just chatty, because I guess that's what everyone was doing when they were at home. Just like calling people, being like, Hey, Hey, what's up? so my sister, she's actually really good at makeup herself. She was the one that sort of gave me an interest in makeup. She's older than, she's two years older than me, so she would be watching lots of like YouTube videos and stuff and I would walk over and be like, Because that's what old people do. We watch YouTube videos. I think I'm your sister's And I'd be like, What'd you do? And I remember watching these like old school YouTubers, you know, like, and like pixie. Woo. pixie, Woo, all of them. And my sister, she actually, her first job was at price lines. She would always get like all of the drug store makeup and that sort of thing. So good. she was actually the one that was more into it than I was. Anyway, so she, and then we just sort of flipped. Now I've gone like full creative and she ended up doing like a science degree. So she's, she is a chemist by like, yeah, she's a chemist. So she, her understanding of like ingredients and product knowledge is just ridiculous. Like it said, it's so good. Like it's such a great tool for me as well, cuz I can just like center an ingredients list and. What do you reckon? And she's like, Oh yeah, amazing. Like it's got this, this, this. And I'm like, What is this Oh my God. funny. She's like, Oh, don't worry, that's just water with an extra molecule. Like it's such a, she's, she's so great. So anyways, where does board at home? And we're like, Oh my God, you know, how great would it be if we started our own makeup line? Like, wouldn't that be so great? She's like, Oh, you know, I could communicate with the labs. And I was like, Oh, you know, I would be able to like do all the artistry and this. And we're just like having this like, you know, how great would that be? Conversation. And then, you know, we like literally even made like, you know, a full idea of like what our inspiration would be. Like, how we brand it, how we'd mark ourselves. Cause we had all the time in the world to Hey, I mean, look, it's the way you're telling it. You're like making fun of yourself. But this is exactly how I started Saint. Jack . Except I was basically talking to a mirror. Yeah. So it's how shit happens. That's fine. I didn't have someone to talk to about it, but that's fine. Yeah. And then we were like, well what should we call the brand? And then, I was like, I've got no idea. And then my best friend James, the one that I actually met at my makeup course 10 years The lock eyes Guy, The Lock Eyes Guy. We live, We, we live together. And he is like, he loves Greek mythology. And then, so he was like, What about Muse? Because in Greek mythology, the Muse are the nine daughters of Zeus and they're the goddesses of art and science. So we were like, Oh my God, they're like The Sisters of Art and Science. Like that is literally us. We should call it Muse. So that's where like Muse as a name sort of got onto my radar and then fast forward a few weeks or months, then everything started to open back up again. And we were, people were contacting me to do their makeup again and I thought, Oh God, like I don't actually have the studio space to work out of anymore. And I was like, I could work at home, but I'm also not used to that. I could, but I would rather go back to what I was doing and at that level. So I was looking and looking and looking for a space, and there just was never really anywhere big enough because I was already running my own private education. I was running like a four week makeup artist course called Level Up for other makeup artists that wanted to up skill. It was like, So where were you running? Where were you running? The Level Up course? was from the old studio. Right. Okay. I was renting. So that obviously had to go on pause while I, while we were in lockdown. And then, so I wanted someone bigger that, that was bigger than just a table and a chair and a mirror for me to be able to just do my makeup bookings I'm sorry. It's just so funny because it's so true. It's like you rent a space, but it's really just . It's really just a table and a chair. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. So we wanted more than a table and a chair. We wanted more chair. I needed room. I needed room to facilitate things. So, and then I guess that was just like, well, I guess I just have to bite the bullet, you know, There's just no better time than now. And then, yeah, and then that's just how Muse was, was born. You know, I guess like once I kind of got the space, I was like, well, I don't, I guess I'm obviously gonna call it Muse and I guess cuz it has that double meaning, like Muse I think by definition is to be the source of inspiration for a creative artist as well. So I guess it was fitting as. So what is the actual space of mirrors like? Because I've actually never been to Perth my whole life, but I will try and come visit because I've always wanted to go, but like I can see it on Instagram and I can see that it's like visually so beautiful. Like it's this beautiful pink, It's like so nice. But it's like, what is it like, Like how many artists can work out of there at one time? Like how does the space work? Right. So I built Muse to be like a, like a collective space, cuz I think anyone that works in freelance makeup knows that as much as it is a highly social job, it's also a bit lonely as well. You know, like at the end of the day when you're cleaning your brushes and you're exhausted and you're like, Huh, I'm tired and hungry and lonely. So I kind of wanted, like I wanted to create like a space where, you know, where we could work together, bounce off each other, bring in work for each other as well. So the space at the moment, it has the, It's built with three hair stations. There's seven makeup stations and a lash room. And that's pretty much like the workable spaces in it. So at the moment we're at four capacity, so there's two hairdressers that work out of there. They rent a chair. They're amazing. They're so great to work with. I do quite a bit of hair styling as well, so I just use a third chair. And then Brody, who does lashes, she's also a makeup artist. And then beyond that, there's six more makeup artists that work at Muse. So on a busy on a weekend, it's like it's pumping. It's so good on a weekend cuz everyone's like buzzing. Everyone's excited cuz they're going somewhere. We've just started doing like cocktails cause now it's summertime, so like it's good fun on a Saturday and then throughout the week is obviously a lot less makeup. So I do a lot of like one-on-one lessons with like make butters or regular women that wanna learn how to do their own makeup. And there's probably about like four or five of us in the studio on a weekday, which is really nice as well. It's like a little bit slow, but we've still got, you know, something happening and yeah, it's really, it's really great. So it's exactly what I had envisioned, which is just, you know, so relieving and fulfilling. So exciting as well. Like it just sounds like such a beautiful spot. Like Jack Kale, who I had on the show, who was the first ever guest I had on the show has recently opened up a studio in kind of inner city Melbourne, and he's got a few makeup artists working with him in that studio. And I was in there the other day because I was like, Long story, but I was going to something and I was like, I'm gonna get my makeup done, I'm gonna treat myself. And I went in there and it was the same thing. It was like Friday afternoon, it was buzzing and it was just like so fun to be in there. And I just feel like it's such a privilege for clients, like for people who live around that studio or people who live around you, to be able to be like, No, I'm gonna pop into Muse and I'm gonna get my makeup done because not only are they gonna make me look amazing, like it's gonna be really fun. It's gonna be part of my whole experience of whatever I'm doing like that. Yeah, and it is part of the, it's the whole experience and it's so much fun. So good. Yeah, it's so true. It's just, you know, it's what they say. It's like so much more than makeup. It's like the whole, it's the whole shebang. But what I do wanna also talk about is the fact that you are now running your own Muse Makeup Academy. So you've come full circle, you started lecturing as a part-time job when you went freelance. You had, you know, your Level Up course before you open the space. Now you have the space. And now, from what I can see on Instagram when I'm, you know, flicking through all your stories every day, because you know, I'm biggest fan, I can see that there are so many really cool new people learning how to be makeup artists and makeup, you know, Kings at Queens in there, and you're teaching them all. Like, what is, what is that like? It's honestly been so fulfilling. So this Monday just gone, that was their second last class of the 20 week course. So that's the last class that I am doing. Any lecturing I have, that's the last like demo that I do. And then this Monday coming will be their final photo shoot. So that's really exciting. They're literally on the home stretch now. So at the moment, Music Academy, I just facilitated my first like long course that's like beginners to advance. Entry level full makeup artist course. So I think I've had them since May, and it's one day a week for 20 weeks and the course has been split into three different modules. So yeah, the beginner's intermediate advance, and we've gone over everything from all the basics to working on. People like, you know, different ethnicities, people of color, different eye shapes, age ranges. And then in the last segment we've been doing like, what's some really fun stuff, like high intensity color airbrushing, graphic liner, face tapes, embellishments, all that. So now they get to incorporate everything they've learned into their final photo shoots. I'm so excited now that we're sort of reaching the end of the course. Like even last, the last week, they were just like, Oh, I don't know what I'm gonna do. Like on my Monday nights now. Like, I've just loved coming in here so much and I've just gotten such great feedback from them. And I think the best thing is just seeing their progress. You know, like from them first coming in, some of them having never done makeup, like none of them had done makeup artistry before. You know, And they're just seeing what, where they're at now and how they're, you know, asking questions about like, their business, am they cultivating how they're gonna grow their own businesses now and they're getting their own jobs and they're getting booked for photo shoots. And it's, it really is just the epitome of like, what is the most fulfilling, enriching part of makeup to. So it's just been such an awesome experience. And I tell you what's so cute, and you might not even know that it's happened yet, is that it's possible, you know, you said that when you did your diploma, like, you know, Eight or nine years ago, you met your best friend there on like the first night and you've been friends ever since you've lived with him and like you're such like so close that that might have happened under your very own roof. Like you might be doing that for someone like, isn't that amazing? and it's just so Oh, it's so nice. Yeah. I was just gonna ask you like if that's kind of like the first intake, cuz that's like from May to what, like the first week of November or something. This year. It's like, where do you see that academy going? Like do you have any goals for that that you know you haven't hit yet? Like what's the dream? totally. So I guess in the next 12 months I'll, Well, I'll have a break over Christmas just cuz it's just so crazy and no one wants to start learning in the silly season. So from January I've got another course starting and that will start from the beginning of Jan until July. And that is the only course that I'm running for 2023 just because I'm planning on doing a bit of travel next year as well. I only had this year, I like ended up going to Berlin. It was just like this random, this random trip that I just went on with one of my close friends who's originally from Berlin. And I just like fell in love with the city and I just love, like, it's so artistic. They like cultivate, you know, like expressions so much. It's, it's, it was such a cool city. So I really wanna go back there and then just use that as a base and just do a little bit more like fashion work, editorial work. So I'm gonna bring a little kit over. I would love to do some, like one on one training in master classes and stuff while I'm over there and as well as Fashion week. So like I wanna go to Europe and just do as many as I can. And then New York Fashion Week is the same week as my birthday, so I'd really love to go do that. So I've got a little plan of like how I'm gonna reach out. Oh. reach out to a few and stuff just to sort of get my foot in the door just to sort of branch out to a different part of makeup that I, you know, obviously really love. Cause I've done shows before and I love that. But just, you know, bigger scale. So I guess that's a bit of a goal for next year. And then when I get back, I would love to more seriously look at like Opening News Academy as like an established space. So at the moment I'm running Music Academy out of Muse, which is great, like I've got the space for it. But I would love m now to sort of be like the HQ that people come to where they wanna have services done and that sort of thing. And then Music Academy will be like education, like a space people could use for photo shoot, you know, that whole side of things like the creative professional artistry side. And then music can be the, you know, the fun experience when clients sort of come into and a space for people to be able to work out of and that sort of thing. It sounds so good. I love the vision because I feel like, you know, we can all get like very stuck looking at what everyone's doing right now, but it's like you sometimes forget, like you have goals and dreams, but so does everyone else. And it just sounds like so amazing to be able to do that and also good for you. Like a friend of mine is a hairstylist and she's decided, she's like, I wanna work at the Met next year. She wants to work at the Met. I'm like, Okay. I was like, I don't know how you're gonna do that, but ok. And she's like, So I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna reach out to this person and I'm just gonna book flights to New York to be in New York while the Mets on. And I was like, Power to use this. Like, good on you. Like good on people who are willing to like put themselves out there and just like give it a crack because you know what, like the worst thing that can happen if someone says no and then you just move on and onto the next thing. But I don't think they would have to be out of their mind to say no to you. But coming up to taking up the second. Hour of your of your time in this life. I have one more question for you, and it's funny. Oh, do you watch, or have you ever watched Grey's Anatomy? Not, Not since I was a kid. I'm actually so bad with tv. I don't even own a tv. know what, that's probably a good thing because it's like I waste my time with like, Garbage television like the Real Housewives. The reason why I was gonna say it is I always ask everyone the same question at the end of the interview and it's like, what is your advice for, you know, anyone starting out in the industry? And I just had this memory, like as we were talking, it's like in the first ever episode of Grey's Anatomy. It's like the chief of surgery takes all the interns into like the surgical room that they've never worked in and it gives them like this super, like it gives them this super inspiring speech about like, some of you will fail and like some of you will be excellent and whatever. Anyway, but then I just, I was like, Oh my God, that must be what it's like when they start out at the music academy. They're like, some of you will be lit and some of you won't. But , I just had this like vision of you would probably at some point or another during this course have to give some sort of like inspiring like piece of advice or something like words of encouragement. So I'm curious to know as my last question for you, what advice would you give to someone at the beginning of their career in mic? Such a great question. I think like just coming back to what you were saying about how people, they can sometimes look so closely at what other people are doing and then just completely overlook what they're doing and where they're at in their own personal, you know, makeup journey. And so I guess my advice would be that, you know, skill compounds, so you know, even if you feel like you know, you are not quite where you wanna be yet, or that you don't have, you know, the experience or the work or whatever, like everything that you're putting into it now is compounding for wherever you wanna be down the track, you know? And I just feel like it's one of those things, it's like, you know, sometimes you don't see the growth straightaway and then all of a sudden everything will just open up and then you'll get that big job or something will happen, or you just sort of get this aha moment and you can really just nail a makeup that you weren't really able to do before. And it's easy to sort of think that that just sort of happens outta nowhere. I think especially on social media, when you're looking at what other people are doing, it's easy to think that that sort of stuff just comes outta nowhere. It has compounded over time and it's built up to that point that you don't see. I think I was reading this, this book once and they talk about, like, they were talking about like how people used to crack marble back in the day and they used to say it would take like a hundred taps of like a chisel to like crack I'm like, What book were you reading? It's called, it's actually an amazing book called Atomic Habit. It's actually like one of those Oh yes, just like, it's so good. I have it in my car. I borrowed it off my friend and I still haven't read it. Oh you know what? Get around audio books. Then you can just re like listen to it while you are in your car. So smart. they're narrated by the, by the author. So they say in the way that it was intended to be written. Highly recommend. Anyways, I digress. Love that little extra tidbit of advice, get on the audio books and they were saying that like, it's that like, you know, 99, like you could hit it 99 times and the marble won't crack, but it's that hundredth time that seemingly the marble will just crack in into. But it's easy to think that it's just that. Strike, but it's actually like the compounded pressure that has been imposed over time. And it's one of those things where like everything happens as it should. And I think as a makeup artist, all you need to do is keep your head down and focus on what you are doing and what makes your heart sing. I know it sounds so corny, but it is so true. Just focus on what you really love to do and what Mark you want to make. And people pick up on that, like clients, people that wanna book you for photo shoots, like they'll pick up on what you're putting back out. And if you're so heavily focused on what other people are doing, there's a really high chance that you'll be doing what you think that people want to see rather than what you wanna create. O, you just gave me the sound bite for the episode, Oh, it's so true though. It's so true. And it's like the coolest part of this job, and it kind of goes back to what we were talking about before, but the coolest part of this job is that you can make it whatever you want it to be, and I think the sooner you realize that and just start doing whatever it is that you wanna do. The better off you're gonna be, the more you're gonna thrive. I was smiling before with the Hundred Taps of Marble thing because it reminds me of when Lady Gaga was in A Star is Born and she was talking about how Bradley Cooper like noticed her and she wanted to be in movies forever and nobody would let her. And like there was this soundbite where she was like going to every single interview and she was saying the same thing. She was like, There could be a hundred people in a room and only one could notice you. But there's like these really like so embarrassing like montages of Lady Gaga saying the same thing in like a million interviews for that movie. But it's true. It just takes one person or one tap of Marvel to open up your whole life. Oh my God. Elina. Harra, thank you so much for coming back on the show and for chatting with me. This was so much more fun than the first time. This is such a vibe. I feel like I'm gonna have to like get everyone on the show once as like a test run and. I'm just kidding. My, um, my mental health could not withstand that, uh, ever again. So never again. We have a podcast studio now you have, Look, you've cracked my marble. I have a professional podcast studio now. So thank you so much. From the bottom of my heart, truly. Thank you. you for your time, Beth. It's been amazing. Oh my goodness gracious me. I think it just says so much about alone's grace that at the end of that recording, I think it was when we had gone offline and we were like virtual high fives. We did it, and I think this time it worked., she thanked me for my time. I'm just really overwhelmed. I was really, really upset when that conversation, when that original recording didn't work because she's a really powerful woman, you guys. She's a really powerful human. Like she inspires me so much, not just with her artistry and what we see on social media, but the way she treats people and the way she treats the industry. And I can just imagine what it must be like to be one of her students and how supported you would feel, and how free you would feel to be whatever kind of artist you wanna be. So I'm glad I could do that for you a second time. I'm glad she was down to record that with me a second time, because it was worth every bit of stress that I felt last week to do it again. It's speechless. I just, I think I fell in love today guys, but here are my shop Two takeaways from that chat with alone. Number one, Skill Compounds. This is probably one of my favorite phrases that alone used in our chat and she actually said it last week as well, so I'm glad that we got back to it. It just makes so much sense. Skill compounds every face you do, every time you practice something new on a content model or push yourself, challenge yourself. You are improving your craft and you are becoming a better artist. Don't be afraid to try something new or you know, just like challenge yourself like, Oh, I don't know how to work with Dssa, Myrick colored paints, so I'm gonna get one of those and I'm gonna play with it and I'm gonna see how we go and I'm gonna go from there. When you try something new, even if it doesn't work out on that particular occasion, You will learn something from it. You will learn how to use that product next time or how to do that shape better next time. And so you are contributing to those 99 cracks in a piece of marble that will eventually lead to the one giant crack that splits the marble later down the track. I like the analogy. I think I need to work on how to use it. I think she nailed it. I might need to read the book. number two. You don't have to pick Elaine. Just do what makes you happy. Elina has done everything for a fashion to editorial, to soft lamb, to full glam, to embellish looks with tiny pieces of chain on people's faces. So when I asked her what lane she felt most, most comfortable or happy in and she said, You know what, I screw screw all over the place. I don't have a lane. I was like, You know what, go off sis. You don't have to pick a lane. You don't have to do bridal just because some other makeup artist, you know, does bridal and you know, that makes you think that maybe you should do it. You don't have to want to do eCommerce shoots or fashion or whatever because you see somebody else doing it and they said that you'd really enjoy it, but you just know deep in your heart that that's not for you. You don't have to do that. Do what makes you happy and success is sure to follow. Oh my God, this episode is a labor of love, y'all, and I am so happy that you have made it here to the end of the line. It might only be my mom listening right now, but just in case , I am gonna let you know where to find me. If you wanna follow me on Instagram, it's at Beth Wilson underscore mua. Same on TikTok. And for the brand Saint Jack, it's at B y Saint Jack on Instagram and at Saint Jack Cosmetics on TikTok. Please be sure to follow along because as I have been saying for months and months and months and months, the second product is almost ready. I was about to absolutely Blauer my cover just then and tell you what it is, , which would've been so rogue, but also if you've even got to this point of the podcast, and you fucking deserve to know what it is, to be honest. But I actually had a message from the manufacturer of the packaging today to say that we are almost finished. So as soon as. Those bottles are in the air. I am telling you all my secrets and we are getting ready for a very exciting time to be part of this community. Thank you so much. I love you so much. I'll see you on the next one. Bye.