Make Mondays Work with Coach Kon

Sunday afternoon is calm, then the thought of Monday hits and your chest tightens. That reaction is not just “part of the job.” It is data. James Gable sits down with Coach Kon (Kon Apostolopoulos), a leadership development coach and founder of Fresh Biz Solutions, to unpack why so many people dread the start of the workweek and what leaders can do to change that feeling fast. The big idea is simple: we don’t hate Mondays, we hate how Mondays feel and leaders shape that environment at zero cost. 

We dig into the practical drivers of employee engagement that matter in construction leadership and workforce performance: helping people feel valued through psychological safety and respect, building connection and belonging, making sure work feels productive and meaningful, and supporting learning and growth so careers do not go stale. Coach Khan shares concrete behaviors that improve team communication immediately, like being fully present for short conversations, giving real gratitude, and turning vague expectations into clear, measurable standards. 

Then we zoom out to resilience and grit in uncertain times. Coach Khan walks through his “Seven Keys to Navigating a Crisis,” including self-care, flexibility, preparation, realistic optimism, and kindness. We also tackle how ambiguity breeds mediocrity when expectations are unclear, why feedback has to be ongoing, and how performance actually lives at three levels: people, process, and organization. If you lead a crew, a department, or a company, you’ll leave with a clearer playbook for culture, communication, and results. 

Subscribe, share this with a leader who sets the tone on Mondays, and leave a review with the one change you’re going to try this week.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to the Uncommon Communicator Podcast. I am your host, James Gable, and this is where we bring enlightenment to the topic of communication. Are you ready to take ownership of your conversations? Are you looking to possess the skills to navigate and facilitate conversations to a mutual understanding? Then grab your growth mindset and let's go. Welcome to the Uncommon Communicator Podcast. I'm your host, James Gable, and I am so extremely happy to have with me Coach Khan. I'm going to ask you to tell us a little bit about yourself.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Oh, it's a pleasure. First of all, thank you for having me, James. It's a pleasure to be with you. I'm a big fan of the show, and I've always enjoyed your exchanges and the conversations that you bring to all of us. So, yes, my name is Con Apostolopoulos. And if uh the audience hasn't figured it out, I'm from Ireland. No, I'm just joking. Not from Ireland. Very obviously Greek. And uh I am the founder and CEO of Fresh Biz Solutions, which is at its heart a talent management and leadership development company. Um when people ask me, though, what I typically do, I break it down a lot simpler than that, James. I explain to them that the companies that I work with, construction companies, 50 to 500 million dollar companies typically, um, they all have wonderful business plans that they've put together. They've spent a lot of time, a lot of energy compiling that. They've put their strategies in place. And um, when I come in and sit down and talk with them, I explain to them that those amazing plans that they have are only as good as the people that they have to execute them. And that's where I come in. So I can help them essentially make sure that they have a people plan that sits right next to or below their strategic plan that can make it real. And what does that mean? That means that sometimes I will come in and I will help them develop their leaders uh through workshops, through programs that we do. I can help them with their um with their thinking, with their executives and with their emerging leaders through coaching, through executive coaching. Um, a lot of times I will speak and I will help align, I'll facilitate sessions for them to make sure that there's alignment and teamwork in what they're doing. And ultimately, I can help consult on their people programs to make sure that their systems, the way that they hire, evaluate, and reward their people, all of those systems are aligned so that every dollar that they spent is a dollar spent in the right direction. So at the heart of it, it's a very comprehensive approach to make sure that we can get maximum performance and we can optimize our workforce so we can get the most out of that investment.

Why People Dread Mondays

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Yeah, and that's exactly where we met. And I said in a couple of your trainings, I've I've um what do they call it? RD'd ripped and deployed a couple of your techniques in training because they're so effective, like specifically the expectations uh that you said. I utilize that in my trainings, and you really do bring that people focus because at the end of the day, that's what we are, right? We're humans performing work in a group of other humans that require a little bit of training to be able to uh communicate. And of course, this communication podcast, uh, you know, we talk a lot of construction. You share both of those uh lines, which I'm very excited about uh talking to you about because really communication ties to everything. I've been throwing this number out here. I've heard some kind of Yahoos saying that you know, 99% of our problems in construction are communication issue related things. I think that number's wrong. I think it truly is. I can find 100% of the reasons back tying to some form of communication, and you really bring a different level of training, uh wrapped up in all that you do that really does cover uh some communication. But I'm really excited about what you're working on right now, uh, about this making Mondays work. Is that did I say that right? Um making Mondays work.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

So I I'll ask our audience. I mean, I want them to kind of close their eyes for a second, not if they're driving, but think about how you feel on a Sunday afternoon, just relaxed with your family, spending time, and then all of a sudden the thought of coming into work on Monday creeps into your head. What's that feeling? What is that feeling that hits you? Now, if you're one of the lucky minority, you probably feel excited about going to work, about working on the projects that you have with the team that you have and the environment that you have. But unfortunately, for the majority of people, the feeling that they typically describe is one of anxiety, of stress, frustration, sometimes fear, a lot of negativity. And that is an indicator of the kind of environment that they're operating in. Um, this is another example, James, where the advancements of technology, we've focused a lot on that. But what we forget is that we need to counteract that or balance that, if you will, with a more human-centered leadership model, with an approach that really helps us uh realize that we're dealing with people. Organizations are made up of people. And for everybody out there that has a responsibility as a leader or sees themselves as a leader in their environment, I want to remind them leaders are the ones that shape the environment. It is our responsibility to create the kind of environment where people don't stress about Mondays, where we can truly make Mondays work. Why? Because we can create the kind of environment where people feel seen, they feel engaged, they feel committed, they feel strong, and they feel positive about where they're going, even in uncertain times, so they can perform at their best. Mondays are shaped by leaders, and that work, that effort costs nothing.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Wait a minute. You're telling me there's a way we can make work better, Mondays better without any cost.

Four Drivers Of Engagement

Environment Shapes Performance

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Absolutely. Absolutely, because all of the things that I want to propose to people are simple adjustments that we can make, to your point, that can enhance our communication to make things better. Let me give you an example. Let's start with with the engagement part. I mean, we want to be able to spark engagement in your people. If you want people to be on board with the work that you're doing, you got to engage them. And people have fundamental needs in order to feel engaged. What does that mean? Well, the research that I did in the Burke book that I wrote, the best-selling book, The Engagement Blueprint, I discovered and I've written about four fundamental needs that every worker, and by the way, every human being has. And it starts with the need first and foremost to feel valued. We all want to be able to feel valued in the work that we do. Um, what does that mean? It means that as a leader, I can create an environment where people feel safe. I mean, in our construction industry, we see that all the time, the emphasis on safety. But we typically talk about physical safety. But it's not just the physical. We need to be able to create an environment where people feel psychologically and emotionally safe to be able to speak up. If something's wrong, if they see something, if they have an idea, they want to be able to feel like they can speak up without being punished or without feeling like they're stepping out of line because they brought something to the table. So safety is a fundamental piece of feeling valued. Respect. Everybody talks about respect and their values, everybody has it in their mission statements, somewhere about there. But truly, what does respect mean? Well, there's a respect that we need to give each other and a civility that we need to bring to our workplace because we're peers, because we're human beings. And then there's an additional level of respect that we can earn by going above and beyond and supporting our team, by doing something a little bit extra, and recognizing that through your respect is another way to show people that you value them. Create space for people to belong. Show them gratitude. Show them that you know what, hey, I am grateful for the work that you're putting forward. I thank you costs nothing, and at the same time has such a big impact. And then ultimately, if you're a superintendent walking the yard and you see somebody, pause, stop, be present in the moment. Take those 30 seconds to be present. Don't try to multitask in your head, look at your phone, check everything else. If somebody's in front of you, give them your attention. That in itself, right there, shows you that you care and you value that person. These are some simple examples of what it means to feel valued. Did any of that cost money, James? Nope. And so there's one thing, another need that people have. I mean, you and I have talked about this. What are we trying to do here? We're connecting. People have the need to feel connected. We are tribal creatures. We want to know that we belong somewhere. When you wear, for example, that that shirt that has the brand logo of the company that you're working with, you're just making a statement. I belong somewhere. I'm part of a team. And when you wear that badge proudly, that's a sign that you've created an environment where people can feel connected, connected to the values, to the shared goals, to the team, to each other. As a leader, make sure that you're connected to those people. Then the third part, James, is the need that we all have to feel productive. I explain it to people that if we were to take a group picture and then I handed you that picture, what's one of the first things that you would do? Well, I look right at this guy right here. There you go. That's what we would all probably do, either first or second action. We would look at it and say, Where am I in this picture? Well, it's the same at work. People want to know where do I fit in? Where do I belong? Where am I in this big picture that you're describing at work? And so you want to feel like you're not just consuming information or direction. You want to feel like you're contributing. You want to know that the work that you're investing, the hard work that you're putting in is making a difference. It's moving the needle, it's helping your clients, your teammates move forward. And then ultimately, speaking about forward motion, it's the need that we all have to feel supported to learn and grow. No matter who, where you are in your career, you don't want the same thing over and over again. Think about it like water. Your career path is like water. But there's a big difference between a swamp and a river. Nobody wants to feel stale and stagnant. We all want to feel like we're flowing, like there's movement in our career, there's a path that's happening. And sometimes that flow may be slow and steady, and sometimes there might be like rapids, like they're going that and we're quickly accelerating in our path. But either way, we want flow in our career. So the need to feel valued, the need to feel connected, the need to feel productive, and the need to feel supported are the four drivers that get you to engagement. That's right off the bat, James, where you can start and you can say, I'm sparking engagement in my team to make Mondays work.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

Wow. And so are you sure you're not a lean consultant? Because most of the words you're using in there really fall along the lean philosophies. Uh, I've been training that recently. I work for co-build construction, and and our motto is we create environments for people to succeed. Previously, it was flourish, like uh the understanding that we want people to be able to develop and succeed. And then then we've adopted lean practices, which is everything that you talked about, which is specifically which was really surprising for me. Looking at uh when I first dabbled into lean construction, it was all about like uh flow, which is very important, but getting stuff done, right? You think it's money related, what's productivity, which it is, but it the key in the I mean the key, the hallmark of lean construction is respect for people. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

And and like you, I'm I mean, I have a background. Yes, I work with people, but I also have studied, I've got my my certifications in Lean Six Sigma, and the truth that comes through a lot of these different methodologies and these influences, James, is universal. The truth is the truth, and we constantly go back to the source of truth to draw from our different models and our different methodologies. But that truth is universal. People want to feel like they're part of something, they want to feel valued from that piece, like the drivers that we just talked about. And when we can create that environment for people, it's so critical. I mean, I heard a story recently that just reminded me of this fact of what we are as leaders. Somebody was complimenting an award-winning gardener about how his gardens were so beautiful and the work that he did and everything else, it was like a masterpiece. And they said, How do you do it? And basically, the gardener simply said, I remove all of the things that stop it from growing. The flower itself is beautiful. If I remove all of the other obstacles, meaning that if I put it in a good place where it can thrive and the soil is right and it has the right amount of sunlight and water and everything else, and I create the right conditions for it, the flower is going to thrive. You don't accuse a flower of being lazy or incompetent or wrong if it doesn't grow. Perhaps you need to move it to a better place. And so the environment that we create with our people is like the gardener more than anything else.

Ownership Over Stress And Languishing

SPEAKER_01 13:02

Well, so tying in that gardener uh idea to this idea of making Mondays work. Like I know for me, and I I want to share a story. Uh, this is somebody we come we know together as well, too. But uh the idea of making Mondays work is uh I've taken it upon myself to fix my Mondays, and I want to talk a little bit about that. But what you're talking about is it takes the team, it takes leadership. We're responsible for the Mondays of those that we're leading. And I think that's just an important thing uh to really point out. But uh, to do we have a mutual friend, Chuck Lujan, he wouldn't mind a shout out. Uh, old Chuck was uh superintendent, worked for me, worked for Adolphson and Peterson for a long time. And when he retired, it had been about a year, I met him at I think Tommy's uh retirement. And and I said, Hey Chuck, do you know what day of the week it is? Just assuming he's retired and he has no idea what day of the week it is anymore. That's what I dream of, right? And he that's where he, I mean he's really open about this. That he it it took him almost a year to realize and to get rid of that stress that he had put on himself uh all the way through that Sunday evenings and preparating. And I'm I'm there as well too. We've all been there where you're feeling that even in places you enjoy working, it's the preparation for going into that Monday. And I thought, okay, this just comes with the job, it comes with the territory. Uh, but to carry that load emotionally uh beyond your working time frame, I thought there's something much, much deeper to this. And this is why I like where you have an approach here where we're gonna we're gonna help the humans before they get to that point.

Building Team Resilience In Uncertainty

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Well, absolutely, James. And you know, and and and with our friend Chuck, I mean, that's that's the key to get to that point where the days really don't matter, where the level of attention and effort that you can put into that is is regardless of the day. When you start, when you start feeling the pressure of that Monday, uh, no matter what, it's it's counterproductive. It's it's prolonged stress and it creates a lot of friction along the way. Um, but again, it's a sign. It's your body, your body doesn't lie. It tells you the truth and it tells you everything you need to know about their environment that you're in. But rather than them begrudging the environment and everybody else's fault, take ownership of that. I challenge leaders to take ownership. Um, stop looking across the way and thinking that, you know what, the grass is greener over there, or I'm gonna go somewhere else. The grass is greener where you water it. Take ownership of that. Water your patch of grass, create the kind of environment and space where you and your team can thrive. Because guess what? The we spend so much time in our workplace. It's not just about surviving the week. Truly, when you want to be productive and want to be successful in what you're doing, try to find ways to get beyond that. Because guess what? High performers will not tolerate that for a long time. You're gonna lose your best people if you don't create an environment where they can go beyond just surviving to thriving and trying to get that and they can flourish like you were talking about. It's not about floundering. Uh, and and it's one of those things where Adam Grant had this wonderful expression. He revived this word. It was during the COVID years, but it applies now in any sort of crisis that we're in, in the situation like we're in. And he talked about the word languishing, where we're not when we're not quite at the point where we're like on our knees and desperate, but we're not quite doing well. And we're we're we're kind of in this gray, opaque, okay kind of state where you know people are like you ask them how you're doing, yeah, I'm okay. But they can't really pinpoint what's wrong or what's good about what they're doing. And this in this kind of like foggy area, languishing. You don't want to be languishing, you want to be above that, you want to be to that point where you are doing well and you understand what you're striving for, but that takes ownership. I challenge people. I was at a conference recently, and there was a lot of young professionals, and I challenged them. I told them never let anybody take the steering wheel of your life's vehicle. You're the driver of that. You need to be doing that. And if you want to call yourself a leader, take charge of that. Take hold of that steering wheel and start driving in the direction that you need to go. You know what you need to do with your team. So start by sparking that engagement. But you know what? Headwinds are going to happen. I mean, right now we we've been experiencing this past year ups and downs and turmoil and a lot of headwind in business and everything else. Well, this kind of volatility and uncertainty means that we really need to be able to build resilience within our team. And what do we mean by that? Well, the resilience is all about that that belief that shows up, that confidence that, you know what, we're gonna get through. It's not about sunshine or rainbows. It's about that that quiet confidence that says, you know what, we can do this. We've been here before, we've been through something similar, we've outlasted other things, we've been through crises before, all the challenges. We can make this work. And as leaders, our team is gonna feed off our energy. If we're panicked, if we are scrambling, if we are uncertain, they're gonna read that, they're gonna understand that, it's gonna make them very nervous. So being able to forge resilience in difficult times is essential. That's what's gonna take the spark of engagement and really make that a flame. That's gonna, that's gonna keep those coals going to fuel this engine that we want to be able to build. So we do that in a way that really breeds confidence and belief. Think about it this way. I read a study from Cornferry the other day, and it said that only 11% of CEOs that were interviewed, and it was a sampling across industries and across the world, but it said only 11% felt confident that their teams could handle this kind of uncertainty and volatility. Think about that. The other almost nine out of 10 have no confidence in their team. What the hell does that mean? You look at it and say, how are we going to get through this? And whose responsibility is it to build that? Well, I challenge you again that this is part of the leader's responsibility to start owning that. And it starts with clarity, James. You and I have been through these workshops. We've talked about this kind of piece about how do we navigate this kind of uncertainty. Well, it starts with a clarity about understanding where are you, what's changing, what's not changing, what's impacted, how am I feeling about this, and how's my team responding to this? And really being able, as a leader, before you start rushing into try to solve these problems, take a moment to diagnose, take a moment to get that clarity and understanding. And once you have that, then make the commitment towards action. And with that commitment, you can build the courage in yourself and your team to move forward. Because when you're starting to move forward, you're reclaiming a sense of control in uncertain times. I tell people, you know, that forward motion is the kind of thing like when you're riding a bike. When you're riding a bicycle, it's a lot easier to balance and direct the damn thing if you're pedaling. If you're stationary, it's really hard to balance on a bicycle. So get some forward motion, but do it with purpose, with commitment, with clarity about where you're going to get ultimately to that sense of belief.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

I want to dive into the uh ambiguity and clarity thing in just a minute, but I want to still touch on this resiliency idea. Uh currently I'm working for uh Cobild construction. Again, I mentioned what the what our motto is, but in addition, what uh what COBILD is doing is unique to the construction industry in regards to grit and resiliency. Our CEO, uh, she's she has studied it and we're presenting it as an organization to our team as well as to the trades that work within us. And it's all built on grit and resiliency. And it talks about being in the zone, being in the swamp, which is, you know, you're kind of always in and out of out of the swamp area, and I'm sorry, out of the um storm. And then we have people that are in the swamp, which you almost that's where we talk about languishing as well. So I think there's some ties in in the language that we're using, but what we're working to do within our own people is to know that construction is hard. This is difficult. We're gonna give you skills to know and recognize when you're in that storm, which you have to be in the storm to grow your zone. So we're working to build that. That's where the resiliency uh resides. And then recognizing when people are in this uh they're they're out in the swamp. And I gotta tell you, you know, we we've seen it with our trades and and and even people within our own organization that we know are in it. And they don't even know it. They don't know that they have that and and have to find uh I mean, they're they're Grounding, they can it's barely enough can they build resiliency? But I'd love to know if you've got some other ideas on how resiliency is built um individually first, and then I because I I see how we're doing it as an organization, but it's very straight right here, doesn't it?

Seven Keys To Personal Resilience

SPEAKER_00 22:18

Well, uh my first book was called Um Seven Keys to Navigating a Crisis, and it was essentially a roadmap. It was seven successive successive steps, if you will, in order to get through that. Now let me quickly run through it because I think from an individual level, you can break it down in such a way that it really helps. So you start with the first thing you have to do in a moment of crisis like that is self-care. That's step one. Like when you hear the message from the flight attendants or the or the captain on a on a on a plane before you take off, they say, put your mask on first before you help others. Why? Because you can't help anybody if you're incapacitated. So the first thing you need to do is check yourself, get that clarity, where am I, how am I feeling, what do I need to do? Then step two, we really start raising that awareness level and truly understanding mindfully where are we? And kind of, okay, this is what I need right now, this is where I'm at, this is what I need to kind of be able to focus on. Transitioning into flexibility at a time of crisis, at a time of difficulty, if you will, when you're going through that storm, uh I want you to think about that. When I ask executives the simple question, do you relate more to an oak tree or a palm tree? More times than not, the executives will always relate to the oak tree. Why? Because they see the strength, the size, the build, the the inflexibility that they they portray them, they see themselves in that image. But what they don't realize is that that that solidity, that immovability that the oak tree has in a storm becomes its disadvantage when the winds are howling and the rain is pouring and the ground is getting softer. Whereas the palm tree has that flexibility to bend all the way down to the ground. Its leaves can get shredded. But guess what? When the storm is over, that palm tree will rise back up, dig a little bit deeper in its roots, and its leaves will come back. Whereas the oak tree is tumbled over and devastated. So flexibility is key. And then we transition to key four, which is preparation. Not planning, but preparation. Planning implies a very definitive path. But a lot of times we don't know what's going to happen. In an uncertain time in crisis, we always don't know what happened. But preparation is different. It's like preparing yourself for the inevitable, for different things that might happen. And that is goes a long way in being able to have that discipline to react no matter what happens. And then when you're ready to commit to action, you can move forward with initiative and with positive intent. Steps five and six. So taking action and positive attitude. Have you ever heard of it? Yeah. Admiral Stockdale. And he talked about when he was a captive during Vietnam, and he's talking about describing about the different attitude that people were displaying or feeling at the time. The ones that survived were not the optimists. They were actually the ones that died first. The pessimists were probably second, but the ones that endured were the ones that were the realists. So having a positive attitude, but in the sense of realistically looking at things with that belief that I can make things happen, like we talked about, but also understanding that these are not easy times, that grit that you need to get through. And then ultimately, key seven is kindness. Kindness to yourself. We started out with self-care, but kindness to your team, to others. Because when you get away outside of your own head during a difficult time and you start focusing about how to support your team, how to support others around you, that strengthens you and you get a lot back from that reaction. So seven keys to really create that individual resilience that we're shooting for.

Ambiguity Versus Clear Expectations

SPEAKER_01 26:13

Yeah, I love that. And that's super important to be able to navigate, like you're talking about this world that we're living in right now. Um so I'm gonna I do want to jump into the the concept of ambiguity. Um one thing that you one of the kind of key outcomes that you talk about is recognizing where ambiguity is quietly breeding mediocracy in their text. And I just want to clarify with kind of this statement is we're uh I'm currently um in an organization that's growing, building, we're we're building structure, we're building, we're kind of identifying things as we're going. We've had to utilize these words when uh interviewing people that you have to be comfortable that we are you're in the plane while we're building it. And there was actually one superintendent that said, you know, no, thank you. Like companies like DPR, Hensel Phelps, Adolph Sand Peterson, the plane's built. Get in, find a seat. We've got everything that you need, you know, put into place, the system's in place. But what we've found though is there's a little bit of entrepreneurship that goes along with it, but there's a whole bunch of ambiguity, and we've been struggling with that uh with uh some people because that it is it does become uncomfortable, but you tie it also to mediocracy. Are we talking about something different here?

Truth Telling And Ongoing Feedback

SPEAKER_00 27:32

So, yeah, let's clarify exactly what we mean because there's a difference between being in a place where things are not defined because of the stage of the company or the or the journey that we're in, right? Um, if I tie it to the resilience piece, um there's a term that I use in the book often that's called a navigator. And when you think of a navigator, a navigator may not have been in this particular spot before, but they understand enough about the industry, about the area, about the theory in general. They have enough experience that they can recognize the signs and be able to navigate him or herself and their team through this process. So they've recognized that. For example, you know, we've been through enough crisis, you can understand that there is a there's a process to that. Um, and crisis and change and everything, they have a beginning, a middle, and an end. But what people don't understand is that the end comes first. We end whatever it is that we were going through. And with that ending, there's certain reactions that people have. It's almost like a grieving process where you go through that. And then you transition once you accept the fact that things have changed and they're not going back, into this middle stage. This messy middle is where ambiguity, in a good sense, your ability to be comfortable with this uncertainty comes into play. The thing that you're talking about is being comfortable as we are working through things, we're taking risks, we're evolving, we're in this in-between stage before we get to the other side, this new beginning where we can start forward at this new level. So when companies are in this flux, that's the part that a lot of people are not comfortable with. The kind of ambiguity that I point out to people is when under normal conditions of working, okay, high performers want clear expectations. High performance is associated with clear expectations, outcomes, results, all of that. Because performance is about results and outcomes. So when you can define that, people can shoot for that. Ambiguity, however, in daily-to-day activity is the friend of mediocrity. It breeds mediocrity. Why? Because when you're not clear about your expectations, people can kind of claim they met it or they're not. And guess who thrives in that kind of environment? Mediocre performers. So that's a difference about that. We're talking about performance management versus a stage where a company is at where things are not clear and we're transitioning and we're in flux. It's almost like a teenager going through a growth spurt. The clothes don't fit quite right, but they're in between, and you need to figure out how to manage that process. And so two different things, but the ambiguity part, you know, you need to know when it's appropriate, when it makes sense to be in that environment because you're in flux transitioning, or if it's a day-to-day thing and you're trying to manage performance.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

And I can see, yeah, thanks for clarifying. That's definitely a little bit of a difference. But I do think that that ambiguity does create a different level of stress with individuals who aren't necessarily ready and waiting for you know that type of growth, that direction. But I want to key in on what you said there too, though, because when you what you're referring to is ambiguity in reference to performance uh expectations, is that right? Like, what are some examples of like ambiguity and performance expectations that that create that uh mediocrity?

SPEAKER_00 31:02

Well, uh if you've ever heard a leader, if you've ever had a leader that's told you, you know what, I want you to do better. Uh, I want you to become a better team player, I want you to put more effort into this. What the hell does that mean? Um is that about a half a pound or a full pound or more that you want me to put into this? I mean, these are concepts that are opinions, these are concepts that are fluid. They have no specific way to measure that. I don't know if I'm doing that or not. If you're asking me to run into a room and the lights are off and you said, go here, where's here? If I can't see it, if I can't understand my bearings, how am I knowing where I'm gonna go? I'm gonna be a lot more hesitant as a performer to try to go in a certain direction because I don't want to trip over. I don't want to hit the wall, I don't want to do all that. When you bring turn on the light and you bring clarity to a situation, you say, look, this is what I mean when I say I want you to be a bigger team player. I want you to be responsive to your team members' requests. I want within 24 hours, if an email comes in, I want you to be able to respond to that. I want you to have some productive thing. Don't be just yes, no. I want you to offer your insights and really help that and collaborate with people. And I want to see you partnering with them. I want an update during our one-on-ones about the progress that you're making on this and how things are shaping up. How's the relationship going? What's improving? Where are you still stuck? And I can help you. That's a very different discussion than saying, I just want you to be a better team player.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

And I think you what you're talking about are those soft skills that are probably some of the hardest to do because it it involves bringing that that clarity. It's it's it we have to understand ourselves. That's one thing I've always uh noticed in my ability to notice and support others is I have to know know your there's probably some know thyself first. There's probably some old English way of saying it. Uh, but also that helps you know others, but be able to bring it down clear clearly, and then you know, another uh principle kind of core value is to uh speak the truth and rumble well. You know, those are that's something that we've been talking about recently uh as an organization. It's it's a core value, but it's probably the hardest one for us to do. And I think even that even excluding the rumble well part, being able to truth tell somebody the truth during an evaluation, and a lot of times, like the best time isn't that once a year when we sit down and meet. It's that it's when things are happening, and that's what becomes probably the most difficult uh time is like, is it the right time to say it now? I don't want to, you know, don't want to hurt their feelings. There's so much that's involved with speaking the truth uh to somebody, and I think that comes down to kind of what you're it's definitely communication, but clearly speaking the truth to somebody at the right time.

Performance Is People Process Organization

SPEAKER_00 33:57

Well, there's there's a lot to unpack there. Let me first of all kind of brag a little bit, uh, humble brag, if you will. The know thyself, it was um a statement, a quote that was actually carved on the temple of Apollo in ancient Delphi. So when they would go in to seek counsel from the oracle, the first thing that they would see is know thyself before you ask those questions. Um, so that was one of those things that that's been around for a long time, and and we Greeks can kind of lay claim to some of those ideas. Uh, but as far as the truth goes, um, you know, M. Scott Peck in his book, um, The Road Less Traveled, had said, truth comes with a certain responsibility. Uh, many people use truth as a blunt force instrument uh to take out their their aggressiveness, to, to, to hurt people. Uh, but truth is a big responsibility. And understanding the timing of the truth, like you're talking about, and how to position things in a way that it's helpful. Again, even then, the Greeks used to talk about is something true, is something helpful, and is something going to benefit people from that piece. I mean, we we want to be able to make sure that this is something that it can stand. We communicate for a purpose. Um, James, the whole premise of your podcast, your theory here is to communicate. But there's a reason why we communicate. We communicate to connect, to make things better, to shed light on things, to be able to bring something forward. As human beings, we have that need. Um, and so when we go ahead and we communicate, this generation especially, and I challenge everybody in our industry to kind of think about this. We want to invite younger people, this younger generation into our industry. We need them in here. But they will not tolerate the old way of doing things of no news is good news, or if you mess up, I'll come find you. These younger workers demand feedback and they demand it on a regular basis. And we need to be responsive because performance management is an ongoing thing. It's not an event, it's a journey. It's something that we need to be doing on a regular basis. We need to regularly be bringing forward and kind of letting people know, okay, this is what we're doing, this is why, this is what success looks like. Now go out and do this. What do you need from me? Do you need more direction? Do you need more support? And in constant contact, is this more work than what it used to be for a lot of the old school leaders? Yes, but that's the job. Because the old school leaders tried to be superdoers and they tried to be the best performer on their team. Um, but when you are now trying to lead a team and influence and kind of reach out further and get more done and perform better as a team, you cannot afford to be the best performer on your team. You need to stop being that high performer and start being the leader of a high performing team, which means you need to develop your people to become leaders and performers just like you. Great leaders don't create followers, great leaders create more leaders, and that's what they need to be doing.

SPEAKER_01 37:09

Yeah, and you what you nailed is also just another like passion of mine is you know, it in in construction, it's really everywhere. We take our best performer, person who's who's getting it done. And I'll use the drywall finisher for this example because this is an actual example that happened on a project, and they made them foreman because they had they had to you know bring in a bunch of people and they needed a bunch more uh work done. And this person was not a foreman, they were the best finisher, and that that's where I think trades are failing. That's where we can fail is we just because uh, you know, you you don't give them the tools, yeah, they'll let them train in an apprenticeship for four years, and then okay, now you're gonna go lead people, figure it out. And I think that's the the gap that's missing in construction. It's missing in, I'm gonna say in our society, just because there's such a gap between uh people of a certain age uh as well as the younger age, there's a gap in there, and it's I mean, it's it's numbers, it's pure numbers, and also it's people getting into construction, and now we're finding that there's this gap of knowledge that you we haven't been handing the baton over. You know, I've had this conversation recently with somebody of uh my certain age as well, too, that like our generation that taught us, they they held stuff back because they were worried about their jobs. It was just how they operated that generation, and so we weren't even really given all the tools necessarily that we needed. And now there's a huge gap between this younger generation. So I think there's such a need for leadership training, exemplifying leadership, true leadership to the next generation because we need them. We need them to do, but we also need them to lead as well, which I think you're doing a great job. You're sharing a lot of those leadership skills, tactics, abilities to um, you know, process through uh one-on-ones and those type of things, which is gonna be the thing that's gonna drive our industry to a better place for sure.

SPEAKER_00 39:11

Yeah, and and I've written extensively about this concept because it it's it's a it's challenging the old way of thinking. What you were describing about, you know, people holding certain secrets uh close to the vest because they think it's uh it's gonna secure their job, it's gonna make them irreplaceable. Um and it could be in in the trade secrets about how things are done, about the shortcuts, about the the secret sauce that that gives somebody the the edge. Uh, it could be in a sales environment, somebody who's doing business development, maybe it's their connections and everything else that they're reluctant to share those contacts and everything else. But with 10,000 boomers basically retiring every day, we have a silver tsunami. We have a situation where we are losing so much knowledge every day, our industry is bleeding out, and every industry for that matter. But the one point that I want to emphasize is that um if you are irreplaceable, you are unpromotable. That's what I remind people. If the company cannot replace you because of you hold the secret or you have a key position or you do the work of three people, the company is not going to try to replace you, but they're not going to promote you either. So you have worked yourself successfully into a uh a cul de sac and a dead end. You've got these golden handcuffs on that you cannot move. So if you're all of this was intended for you to make progress in your career, you've just stifled yourself. And so that's that that that's a big problem that people need to get out of that. But that's ultimately where the third part of this secret sauce, if you will, of making Monday's work leads us. And that's the outcome, the performance. Because if engagement is the spark to get people excited and motivated to act and committed, if resilience is what it takes to kind of keep that going through the headwinds of uncertainty, of volatility, all of that leads us to one specific area, to performance. This is the whole reason why we do this. So we want to be able to fuel performance. As leaders, we need to be able to show people that they can excel, they can really knock it out of the park. And so that's the key. But you know as well as I do, James, where's the first place we look at when performance is struggling? The first place we start turning to and we start griping about is people. Is that fair? That's very, yep. But when we look at performance, we need to understand that. Uh let's take it out of the industry for a second. I want people to understand this. Uh, when we think about performance, if I ask you, have you been to a performance recently? It could have been a theatrical performance, maybe, excuse me, a concert, maybe a movie, whatever it was. Have you been to something like that, James, recently? No, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:58

Movie.

SPEAKER_00 41:58

Very good. If I ask you how the performance was and you said great, what is it that you mean?

SPEAKER_01 42:05

Mm-hmm. Well, and it was terrible because I saw a movie that my son wanted to see, and I saw it with him. But uh, if I were to say great, yeah, what does that mean? Great. Yeah, it's just too generic.

SPEAKER_00 42:14

Well, even if you say it's terrible. What but what is it that we mean? I mean, sometimes it could mean, let's say it was a concert or something or a movie, right? It could be, if in the case of the movie, you may look at it and say, okay, maybe the acting wasn't good. Maybe the actors were not the right people. I mean, it's it's it's the right right, they didn't execute the lines well, that was horrible. Uh, it could be the way that the editing flew, uh, the scenes were connected and it wasn't disjointed and it didn't flow right. Or it could be the way that the whole idea was staged to begin with and produced. Maybe the the the even how who picked these people, who did the casting for this thing, who did it, so all of that may play into it. Whether it's bad or good, these factors play into it. And Gary Lumler, who's one of the forefathers of performance at that level, at the industrial level, back in the 90s, quoted, he said, you know, performance happens on three different dimensions. It happens on the individual, on the process, and on the organizational level. And he described that as a Venn diagram with three overlapping circles. And he says, we tend to focus on the people. But the fact of the matter is, you put a high performer, a good performer in a bad process, a bad system, and the system will always win. And it's the same thing with that. But even with the organization, do we have the right people on the right seat on the bus going in the right direction? But bottom line, all three dimensions need to be operating at a high level for you to get truly that optimal performance that you're looking for. So when we talk about that, when I walk talk about making Mondays work, it's about doing that diagnostic work and making sure that we fix that. Are our people able and willing to execute? Are our systems, our processes aligned so they don't create friction, but they allow flow? And are we clear about our vision, our values, how we're organized, where we want to go? Part of what you're describing with your organization right now, James, is that you guys have really spent time. Your CEO has spent time looking at this and saying, I want good people on my team. I want to make sure that they're positioned well. Let's fix our processes, even if they're not perfect. Let's kind of fix that and adapt that for where we're going. And let's make sure that our people are motivated, they're trained, they're they're able to execute that. That's why you guys are doing well, because you're hitting on all three of these areas to reach that optimal performance.

Where To Find Coach Khan

SPEAKER_01 44:41

Yep, that's so true. Uh, I do want to add, like for my wife and I, when we say that a movie has great cinematography, that means it was boring. So we certainly do use this uh descriptions in movies that maybe not what other people think. It might win an Academy Award, but it was boring. No, that was a great analogy. I really appreciate that. Uh one thing, so as we kind of wrap up here, I you know, I think there's there's there's so much we could talk on. I mean, we should we should we should continue this. Uh it never even occurred to me, like I'm a big fan of Roman uh philosophy, which I know is rooted from Greek philosophy, which is right from where you're from. So maybe at some other point we can hit uh in, I don't know if you dive into the philosophical side, but I certainly have. Uh I'm sure there's some ties to uh specifically I prefer the brand of stoicism, uh, but it's all rooted, uh, you know, it's all it all comes from Greece. It's all the world that it's all roots from there. Well, maybe we'll have another time to talk about that. Uh, before I ask the kind of the last two questions, uh how about now? Um, tell why don't you tell the listeners how they can get a hold of you, uh, what you have uh to offer. We'll certainly put them in the show notes at the end. But how can how can folks get a hold of you?

SPEAKER_00 45:55

Well, the easiest way is through my website. Uh it's freshbizb-izolutions.com, freshbizsolutions.com. Or if they uh spend any time on LinkedIn, uh they can find me there under Coach Khan. And con is spelt K-O-N. It's hard to get people to trust you for some reason when you say your name is con and you spell it with a C. Um, so I wanted to make that clear for everybody. So it's CoachCon uh on LinkedIn. They can either place reach out to me. I'm always happy to connect, always happy to be able to support that. If they have more interest in learning more about resilience, pick up my book, Seven Keys to Navigating a Crisis. Uh, or if they want to learn more about engagement, the recent best-selling book, The Engagement Blueprint, is out. Both of those are available through Amazon. Um, or just reach out and let's have a conversation.

SPEAKER_01 46:46

I love it. Yeah, I encourage everybody to do that as well. So, two questions. Uh, first one is what does the world get wrong about CoachCon?

SPEAKER_00 46:58

Ooh, what does the world get wrong about that? Um, that's an interesting question. Um, I think people um I sound more academic than I am. Um, I'm much more about the practical pieces, much more about um the heart and soul of things. Um, I speak to the head because I have my facts together a lot of the time, and I and I explain why things are important that way. But ultimately I appeal to the heart, and I think people realize that only after the fact.

SPEAKER_01 47:31

I love that. That's a great answer. And then the final answer is look, we've been talking 40 minutes or so. You know as well as I do. At the end of every one of your session, everybody's gonna remember one. If they can walk away with one thing, if they bring one piece of homework back, that's a win, right? Uh, what's the one thing from our conversation here that our listeners could walk away with and say just a couple of sentences?

SPEAKER_00 47:54

Well, I think it's it's kind of where we started that. I want people to understand that most of us, all of us, we don't hate Mondays. We just hate how Mondays feel. And the important thing is that leaders, leaders can shape that feeling of Mondays for their people. And at the end of the day, you can make Mondays work and it costs you absolutely nothing.

SPEAKER_01 48:16

Love that. Love that. Well, thanks so much, Coach Khan. I appreciate your time. And well, see everybody later. See you bye. Congratulations. You made it all the way to the end. You're officially a one percenter. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the Uncommon Communicator with me, your host, James Gable. Make sure you like and share this episode. This helps spread the message of communication to the world. Check out our website, The Uncommon Communicator, for more and connect with me on LinkedIn to keep building those communication skills. See you next time.