A conversation with Rebecca Durose-Croft, Content and Services Director for Westchester Education UK, about how Westchester partners with education publishers, ed-tech providers, and other education entities to create superior curriculum materials for students and teachers.
Find all of our episodes on your favorite podcast platform or at our website.
A conversation with Rebecca Durose-Croft, Content and Services Director for Westchester Education UK, about how Westchester partners with education publishers, ed-tech providers, and other education entities to create superior curriculum materials for students and teachers.
Find all of our episodes on your favorite podcast platform or at our website.
Welcome to Westchester words, education ed tech and publishing I'm Nicole Tamasi. In this episode, I'll be speaking with Rebecca Durose-Croft, Content and Services director for Westchester Education, UK and international. Rebecca brings in an impressive amount of experience to her role, having worked for entities, including Oxford University, press Pearson education, Cambridge University, press, and Marshall Cavendish. Prior to joining Westchester in 2020. Rebecca was a guest a couple of months ago in Westchester Words, along with Marquita Celestine and Kaye Jones to discuss culturally responsive education. Rebecca, it's a pleasure to welcome you back again.
Rebecca Durose-Croft:Oh, it's lovely to be here, Nicole. Thank you,
Nicole Tomassi:Rebecca, I really enjoyed the episode that you did with Marquita and Kaye a couple of months back, and I'm looking forward to learning a bit more about you today. As I had shared with the listeners a moment ago, before joining Westchester, you had held editorial and production roles at both university presses and education publishers. I was wondering if you could share with our listeners a little bit more about your professional background.
Rebecca Durose-Croft:Absolutely. Um, well I've always worked in education and I've worked in educational publishing for about 15 years now. Um, when I left university, after my bachelor's degree, I worked at the university of York in their higher education academy, and my role there was to support students on their learning journey, especially those with special educational needs. Um, this, so this was predominantly thinking about ways to break down their barriers to learning. So along with my team, I produced various prints and digital materials to support them. So this was my first step in educational publishing in a, in a roundabout way, at least. Um, and it was the first time I saw firsthand how strong learning materials that were shaped for specific learner needs could have a huge impact on the way students learnt and moved forward in their education. So I moved to Oxford and I studied for a master's degree in publishing so that I could really understand the industry and its entirety. Um, and while I was studying, um, knowing that educational publishing was the area I wanted to go in, I took up a part-time position at Oxford university press in their dictionaries department, which I just loved. And, um, when I graduated, I moved into a full-time position, um, in the education department, specifically the international education team and this was where I really cut my teeth and where I gained knowledge in international markets and curriculum. So for the UK, for the IB IGCSE, but then also specific markets such as the Caribbean. Um, I then progressed into the English language teaching department, where I had a central role in the media team as the ELT script editor. Um, I'd majored in film for my bachelor's. So it felt like this was quite a natural fit for me, uh, but to better understand the needs of the student and what we were producing, I really felt I needed a better understanding of ELT, so I gained a qualification from Cambridge university to teach English to adults, and I taught English, um, to, to adults in English language schools in Oxford alongside my full-time role. Um, I then progressed a bit further at OUP and became a development editor in the primary literacy team. And this was where I focused in on the UK curricula and with my team produced print and products for phonics reading schemes, working with the department for education's lesson and sounds framework and creating pathways to reading through policy documents and training videos. I left OUP about eight years ago and became a freelancer working for a variety of educational publishers nationally and internationally. And that was across both print and digital in editorial management and consultancy roles. And I joined Westchester, uh, as a full-time member of staff in January this year,
Nicole Tomassi:Indeed. And, and what an impressive history. I didn't realize just how extensive the variety of work that you've done is in ELT in primary education, in higher education in international. So you bring a lot of different perspectives into the work that you're doing and how do you find that that informs, you know, the work you're doing here, having been on the publisher side of the desk?
Rebecca Durose-Croft:I think it massively informs the way my team and I work with our clients. When we're first connected to a new or potential client, we always try and make it very clear from the go that we're an extension of their team. We're here to add support, experience and knowledge, and we can work as collaboratively as desired. It's true that some projects have very strict briefs and we can of course work to those. Uh, but we're increasingly finding that the relationships we're building with our clients mean we can work with them on projects way before the brief itself is pulled together. Um, so we are working with them to shape those briefs and shape what that project is looking like from a consultancy point of view because of our collective experiences in education, coming at it from an in-house angle, I always want our clients to feel confident about two things, firstly, that we work with the best freelance resources, um, all of which are highly experienced in their subject field and curricular. And secondly that we are here to take the load off them, to give them a full service from end to end and not add to their to-do list. Uh, these are things that were always really important and most concerned me when outsourcing. Um, so to let clients know that we get it, I think is really important from the very first conversation.
Nicole Tomassi:For those, uh, of the audience who are listening from the states. I just wanna clarify when you say a brief, would that be the request for proposal or the RFP as we call it in America?
Rebecca Durose-Croft:Yes. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That. So, you know, even before, you know, almost like we're getting involved from concept stage.
Nicole Tomassi:Okay. So pretty far upstream.
Rebecca Durose-Croft:M m-hmm< affirmative>.
Nicole Tomassi:And, and that probably makes the project even more collaborative and.
Rebecca Durose-Croft:oh, absolutely.
Nicole Tomassi:And the end results even stronger.
Rebecca Durose-Croft:Yeah, absolutely.
Nicole Tomassi:Rebecca, the last 18 months have presented a variety of challenges for education publishers and ed tech companies, as a result of both the pandemic and then towards the end of 2020 in the UK Brexit. Can you talk about some of the ways that Westchester works with publishers and ed tech companies to help them address some of the issues that kind of resulted from these events?
Rebecca Durose-Croft:Well, Yeah, I mean, what in 18 months it's been for everybody, u m, I've already mentioned m y background in teaching, but it's important to say that most of us that hold editorial positions at Westchester have been teachers in, in some capacity. U m, so that in itself gives us an extra v iew p oint in terms of the struggles educators have faced in the past 1 2 in the l ast 12 to 18 months. U m, and the struggles they continue to face, c uz we're not quite through it all yet. U m, in terms of working with our clients though, it's no surprise that there's been a need for content to be reversioned for a digital classroom and for individual home learning. U m, so we've been working with our e d t ech and publisher clients to do just, u h, to create a nd adapt content for a variety of subjects a nd c urricular working directly into their online platforms. But the way I see it anyway is that we also have a, a bit of a duty to stay abreast with these developments, u m, in global c urricular and assessment changes so that we can have deeper conversations w ith our clients to help them produce the best content w ith a n appropriate objective when the time comes, which links back again, to my point o f about having a consultative approach with our clients.
Nicole Tomassi:I'm gonna throw in a question that maybe you're not expecting here. So have, have you seen that, you know, as changes have progressed over the last 18 months that companies are reaching out to you more for those consultative, u m, kind of discussions as in terms of, you know, how best to repurpose content or how best to meet the needs of students who may still be learning from home?
Rebecca Durose-Croft:Absolutely. I mean, from an ed tech point of view and a digital point of view, um, a lot of the work we've been doing has been very much focused on the shift we've we've through in the past 18 months with digital learning and with, with home learning. So absolutely our clients have been coming to us to do this reversioning work, but to your point about the consultative role, um, I think once clients realize that the background we all have in education and that added value we can bring to their projects, um, we definitely still are having those conversations and we start shaping those briefs to be something which is more focused on the objectives that we are now looking at in education, whether this be assessment or curricular based changes.
Nicole Tomassi:Schools, as well as many parents like yourself and me, we all wanna see a healthy return to the classroom because the bottom line is, is that most students tend to have better academic outcomes when they're in the same room as their peers and with their instructors. Looking ahead towards the day when that happens, you know, whether it's partially or fully, what would you share with companies who are producing educational materials to be focused on so that they can support the continuing needs of students and teachers as we work our way through this pandemic and come out on the other side of it?
Rebecca Durose-Croft:That's a really good question. Um, I can only really speak to my experience and my view of education, but the first thing I'd say is that I do think we need to look at education from a holistic viewpoint. Um, so we need to really take into account into account students, mental health, um, social needs and their home life as these really do just underpin everything a child goes on to learn and do in a classroom and let's face it. They've been through a lot and some more than others. So I think there's definitely a gap for materials that focus in on looking at the learner beyond the curriculum that they're learning. Um, you touched on there about teachers. I think teacher support material is going to play a huge role, um, going forward, um, in the next few years, um, whether that's around assessment changes or around just how to support those children who are finding it trickier to get back into education in the classroom. Um, I also think though let's strike while the iron is hot in terms of digital publishing and really keep driving that forward, cuz there's been some fun, drastically innovative things produced over the past 18 months. So I think we need to keep pushing those boundaries and see what we can do there. Um, but with an understanding that digital publishing doesn't mean, um, and digital learning doesn't mean learning on your own, um, you know, digital learning can be brought into the classroom in some really in innovative and great ways to get children learning together.
Nicole Tomassi:So it's a matter of finding a, a healthy balance between an in-person instructional environment. Um, and if a student is, you know, interested in doing something asynchronously in, in the home environment and has the ability to do so to kind of encourage that as well, is that what I'm hearing?
Rebecca Durose-Croft:Yeah. I mean And, and encourage that, um, that digital growth as well. So where children, you know, all children learn differently. Some, some children will open a textbook, read it and it goes in, some children have to do to learn they're called kinesthetic learners and some, you know, have to have to be told it, you know, so they all learn very differently. And what digital publishing does and digital learning does is it's able to kind of encapsulate all those different things of doing, seeing, hearing. Um, so if we can bring that into the classroom in a collaborative way so they can work socially and collaboratively together could be a really good way forward to move from this kind of at home individual learning, um, to being back in the classroom, but not losing that digital side of things cuz you know, children love that and they engage with that.
Nicole Tomassi:They sure do. I've I've I've seen it. I've seen it in my own house. Yeah. I, but interestingly, they also like to disconnect and read a print book. So.
Rebecca Durose-Croft:Absolutely, It has to be a mix. It has to
Nicole Tomassi:Yeah. They seem to be finding that balance, uh, of their own accord. So it's, it's encouraging to say the least<laugh> um, to switch gears a little bit, Rebecca, some companies are hesitant about engaging with a content development vendor and there's a variety of reasons for that. Um, including possibly the belief that it might be more costly to do that. How would you and the team at Westchester work with a prospective client in order to address those types of concerns?
Rebecca Durose-Croft:We pride ourselves on having very transparent and upfront conversations with our clients. So it's say that from, from the very beginning. Um, but this, this goes back to my previous point really about ensuring clients understand that with Westchester they'll receive high quality work that won't impact on their workload. I mean there's a cost associated with everything<laugh> whether it's our time or their time somebody's paying for it. So an understanding of that is very crucial and that links into that, you know, as I just said around those transparent conversations with them, um, but as I also mentioned, it's for us, it's not just about churning out content. Uh, we offer so much more added value from our collective experiences and education to shape and inform projects from the very beginning, I personally don't think you can put a price on and we hope that our client learn that too.
Nicole Tomassi:So really it should be seen as making an investment in creating the highest quality materials possible.
Rebecca Durose-Croft:1 00%. Yeah. A hundred percent that
Nicole Tomassi:Before we wrap up our conversation today, Rebecca, is there anything else that you would like, uh, for our listeners to consider in the realm of all the work that you're doing for clients?
Rebecca Durose-Croft:So really just linking back to my previous point about looking at education from a holistic viewpoint, um, thinking about social and emotional learning, um, this links to the work we've been doing for our clients in terms of CRE reviews. So looking at their content and ensuring it's appropriate for all learners, uh, whatever their background and ability,
Nicole Tomassi:Just a reminder to listeners, if you had not caught the previous episode that, uh, I had mentioned at the top where Rebecca and Kaye Jones and Marquita Celestine talked about culturally responsive education, catch that either on our website or on your favorite podcasting platform. Rebecca, I really wanna thank you for joining me today. I enjoyed our conversation and I learned so much. Thank you very much for taking the time to speak with me.
Rebecca Durose-Croft:You're very welcome. Thanks Nicole.
Nicole Tomassi:Thank you for listening to this episode of Westchester words, follow us on your favorite streaming platform to be notified about new episodes as they become available or to listen to previous episodes, you can find all of the episodes plus additional content that's been shared by some of our guests at the podcast pages of our websites, Westchester publishing services.com and Westchester education services.com. You can also get in touch with us either by completing the contact us form that's available on the homepage of each website or by sending us an email at Westchester words, Westchester ed svcs.com to share your thoughts or comments about today's discussion and let us know what content you'd like to hear Westchester cover and future episodes. I hope you'll be able to join us for the next episode of Westchester words when we'll be talking about another topic of interest for the education ed tech and publishing communities until then stay safe, be well and stay tuned.