Modern Church Leader
Hear pastors share what's working in their churches. Welcome to Modern Church Leader, a show for church leaders to learn business strategies, leadership skills, church tech tips, and generosity. Tune in for powerful interviews to help you grow your church to be more effective, efficient, and powerful for the kingdom of God. For more information, visit https://www.mclconference.com/
Modern Church Leader
The Impact of Hospitality and Friendship on Faith w/ Craig Cooper
How do you navigate life when the path abruptly changes? Craig's story is a compelling testament to resilience, showcasing how life's unexpected turns can lead to fulfilling new chapters and how he embraced the power of simple acts of love and kindness. Don't miss this inspiring conversation that will encourage you to see God’s hand in both the grand and modest moments of life.
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Learn more about Craig at https://www.craigallencooper.com
Join Craig, Frank, and so many other wonderful teachers and speakers at this year's Modern Church Leader Conference!
Learn more by visiting https://www.mclconference.com
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Let's do this. Hey guys, frank here with another episode of Modern Church Leader, excited to talk to Craig Cooper today. Craig, welcome to the show.
Speaker 1:So happy to be here. Thanks so much for having me, Frank. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Like you got this really cool story. You've written a few books. We're going to talk about one of those stories, but tell us a little bit about you, like how did you get into ministry and what are you up to these days and all that We'd love to hear kind of the journey.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Thanks for asking. Yeah, so I live in the greater Nashville area just south of Franklin, Tennessee. My wife and I actually are celebrating our 25th wedding anniversary which is super cool. And uh we do anything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, A little vacation next week, just the two of us and super stoked to to do that and turn everything off and just reflect and enjoy. Um, it's going to be. It's going to be great, yeah. But we, um, yeah, we live in the greater Nashville area. We've got four kids. I'm in kind of in the launch phase with two of them One.
Speaker 2:Wait, what's the launch phase? Graduating high school or college? Which one?
Speaker 1:Well, it's both. So my oldest daughter, karis, just graduated from the university of Alabama, which is hilarious because I went to ut and knoxville.
Speaker 1:So I always say go vols, but they alabama actually gave her a big scholarship and she went into their honors program so we bought the hat and everything and I said roll tide, um, except when alabama's playing tennessee, yeah, and then my blood runs deep orange. So that's awesome, but, yeah, super grateful. So she just graduated from college, so she's going to do a master's degree and then kind of go into life in the real world and all of that. So she's doing an internship over the summer. And my son just graduated from high school and is heading up to NYU for Clive Davis Institute. He got accepted into Clive and they only accept 60 students into that program for music production worldwide. So we were blown away. I mean we celebrated like crazy. Lara caught it on video and that video went viral. It went all over the world. It was really cool, uh, when he got his acceptance.
Speaker 1:So I say we're in the launch phase on that end because really two of our kids aren't living, uh, at home right in in the fall. And then, um, I've got, uh, my other daughter is in high school and then my youngest daughter is in middle school. So we're right in the thick of parenting. And, yeah, I'm Tennessee born and raised. I, above my computer, here I've got quotes from Drew Holcomb, the neighbors of the song that says I was born here and I was raised here and I'll make my grave here. It's home, tennessee, um. I love it, but we we lived in.
Speaker 1:I lived in chattanooga, grew up attending and then went to school in knoxville, ut. That's where I met jesus. That's where, honestly, the three biggest introductions in my life happened. Through a campus ministry there called volunteers for christ, vfc. That's amazing. Yeah, I was introduced to jesus, uh, introduced to my wife. Life happened through a campus ministry there called Volunteers for Christ, vfc. That's amazing. Yeah, I was introduced to Jesus, introduced to my wife and introduced into kind of the whole trajectory for ministry and so massive impact on my life. And you know that was back in 1995. So I'm dating myself here, but I'm getting older.
Speaker 2:Hey, I can relate, man. I met my wife before, but I'm in San Diego.
Speaker 1:I love San Diego so much, come visit.
Speaker 2:Man, I love San Diego. We'll either do some golfing or we'll go to the beach One of the two.
Speaker 1:You don't want to golf with me? You're going to be hearing four, a lot Four.
Speaker 2:Look out the ball is headed to your head. Most of golf is just having a good time, so I feel like we'd have a good time. I can do that.
Speaker 1:Hey, top three favorite sunsets in my life were in San Diego. I took my wife to Coronado and we watched the sunset there and everybody had their phones out taking pictures and stuff. So I love San Diego. It's super cool and I'll take you up on that.
Speaker 2:You just text me when you're coming out. But yeah, I became a Christian in college. My wife and I had met, but we kind of reestablished the relationship as Christians and eventually got married. And my first job I was a youth pastor for five years.
Speaker 1:I feel it.
Speaker 2:I have a strong. My campus ministry, college ministry days were some of the best of my life. Like it was an absolute blast. Met some of my best friends to this day. Like for Memorial Day. Like four families get together every year. We're all from that campus ministry. We go out to the lake and hang. That's amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a good time. You know what?
Speaker 2:I'm saying, yeah, it is. It's a good time of life, campus ministry, we go out to the lake and hang so, um, yeah, it's a good time you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Uh, it's a good time of life. It's you and I'd love to see what's happening in the college campuses now. I've, you know, with hundreds of kids like professing faith in Christ and getting baptized in different moments where, like, the passion band has gone out and you, like the passion band has gone out, and you know, I've seen jp and jenny allen and different people um maddie prue, uh post about what's happening and it felt like that in 1995. It felt like that for me at uh, at ut.
Speaker 2:I was in the number one party dorm in the us at the time in the whole us because san diego state I'm sure is it ranking up there Like it was a whole U S and it was.
Speaker 1:It was called a Hess hall and they called it the zoo, and I mean there was no air conditioning so everybody left their doors open and their windows open. So it was like so communal, it's like something back in the seventies. But then tons of people were on, you know, on drugs and on all kinds. You know there was, but what happened is God just like reached in and started transforming people's lives and we had Bible studies where you know the rooms just like your dorm room just packed out 30 people Right, and it's only supposed to fit two. You know it was really cool, what was happening. I feel like that's happening now.
Speaker 2:It's really cool yeah, yeah, it's, uh, it is pretty cool. Um, so that's when you became a christian and then you did you go into full-time ministry right from there, or what's the, what's the story post campus yeah, so well.
Speaker 1:The night I came to faith in Christ it was October 26th of 95. A guy came up to me who led the campus ministry and he said hey, champ, what's God doing in your heart? And I said I just want to give my life to Jesus and do what that man is doing. And I pointed to the guy who had just preached the gospel and led me to the Lord. Just preach the gospel and led me to the Lord, so that what ended up happening from there is the man who led the campus ministry said hey, let's get together every Tuesday, so with myself and my twin brother I have an identical twin brother every Tuesday 2.30, presidential court. He sat down and he just really discipled us like, walked us through the gospel, walked us through different books, walked us through, you know, I remember him being in our dorm one time to come, you know, get us. And he kept his eyes down and he looked real a little uncomfortable. And then I kind of looked back like what's he uncomfortable with? We had this like big poster of of a swimsuit model and they're like is that bad? And he's. And he's like well, you know, bro, you want to. You know, guard your heart and we, like, immediately ripped it down and he just walked me through everything.
Speaker 1:I ended up naming my son after him Joshua Landis, wow, cooper, after Bruce Landis a massive impact on my life as a mentor. But yeah, he he's. You know. They started asking do you feel called to ministry? And I said yes and so graduated in three years, went to a school of ministry, a pastor's college, came back, got married and married on June 5th and then started into ministry June 15th and, uh, like you, I mean I did youth ministry, I did campus ministry, but we were in a small church at the time, it was about maybe 200, 250 and it grew to about a thousand. And what happened was I was doing youth ministry, campus ministry, worship ministry, small group ministry and I packed my days. I just had something every night and then would try to connect with my wife on Sunday night and I was exhausted.
Speaker 1:It wasn't sustainable and it wasn't working. And I started praying Lord, if I'm supposed to do something different, let me know. And, um, I thought I hit a major burnout and the team, actually they, you know, they kind of discerned all of that and they're like, hey, we're going to let you, we're gonna let you go and go find some business experience. Go and business experience go. Just you know. And I was devastated, like, um, they announced the church. You know, craig hasn't done anything wrong that would disqualify him from ministry, but he just needs to do something different and based on the needs of the church and where he is at the time, there's no longer a match. And I was like it crushed me, right, but, and it I felt like a, it wasn't a loss of a job, it felt like, you know, loss of a calling, like what's, what am I, you know. But god used it, um, that in the midst of all the brokenness, he really drew me to himself and I would take long, long walks on sunday afternoons after church and just pour my heart out to the Lord.
Speaker 1:And about five years later, you know the church, we stayed in the same church, which was, you know, it was kind of humbling Right Right. About five years later, you know, the lead pastor said hey, I feel like I wish I had never let you go and we all feel like you're called. Would you consider coming back on? And I had developed a successful career at that point in recruiting and staffing and so I took a 50% pay cut, went back with the church and the intent was to help plant a church Right. And so did that for five years. And then we relocated to the Nashville area to help plant Redeeming Grace. Then we relocated to the Nashville area to help plant Redeeming Grace. Yeah, and that's where life just changed in a big way too, when we came to Nashville.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was awesome. Yeah, I mean I'm sure that was a crazy ride. I mean that was a 10, 20-year encapsulation of going into ministry, however long that went. Then you get you know they're like, hey, this isn't working and you spend X number of years being a recruit my wife was a recruiter, by the way, so I, I kind of what did she recruit for?
Speaker 1:What type of specialties?
Speaker 2:She bounced around. She spent most of her time at a company called SAIC which I think yeah is has a different name now, or like leidos or some like yeah, but she was an inside recruiter for them for a long time and, uh, so you know, just defense contracts, all kinds of positions in that world was kind of her her thing, that's awesome so yeah, but I remember when she started recruiting and she was like the newbie and it's kind of a sales job right yeah so recruiting your sales right, it's, it's like that, it's in that lane and uh man, it was hard when she started.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she was you know, entry level, mostly making commission with a draw, like it was. You know, you know it was a tough go, but she, uh, she figured it out along the way and ended up doing pretty well.
Speaker 1:So yeah, wow, well, tell her. I said what's up? Uh, I, I know that whole world. I did pharmaceutical, medical and biotech recruiting and then what's crazy is when we went to plant the church, I got offered I was on a like a personal retreat, you know to come over here and pray through the area and everything and I got connected with a group. That uh guy was a believer, the man who owned the firm, and he was looking for a believer with staffing experience, right, and I'm like I. I got connected with him and I was like I've been out of the game for five years. He said, craig, you would be perfect for our group. He made me an offer on the spot. If I had not had that time in the wilderness, out of ministry and doing staffing, I wouldn't have been able to do what we do. I took the job as a healthcare IT recruiter and he brought me in as a senior recruiter because of my you know five years of recruiting experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, and you know, having me help lead the younger guys and the team and everything, and, and he prayed for the church, plant all this stuff. And so I was able to go by vocational and not take any money from the church but be able to give back to the church, plant all this stuff. And so I was able to go buy a vocational and not take any money from the church, uh, but be able to give back to the church while we helped establish and plant the church Right, and I ran with them for six years and it was. You know, god, he never wastes pain. He never wastes, uh, any of that. He uses it all. But I couldn't see it until it happened and it happened in a flash, right, um, and I'm I'm so, so, so grateful yeah, and, but it didn't seem like a flash when you were going through it.
Speaker 2:It only seems like a flash now that you look back on it. Right, you're like, wow, that was a short yeah, but I bet you, those long walks on sunday, uh were extremely long walks and you probably did a lot of them.
Speaker 1:They were. Yeah, my shirt was wet, you know, with tears. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean for real, not just the sweat, but the. I mean I, I really I love Psalm 62, eight. It's one of my favorite verses. Trust in him at all times. Oh, peoples, pour out your heart before him, for God, as a refuge for us.
Speaker 1:And I felt like God just was inviting me on those walks to, um, like, pour it all out Right and, and which meant I could be honest with him about how that hurt and the bewilderment and not understanding what was going on in my life at the time. And uh, you know, I think of it's like if you have a neglected milk carton. You know, we had that happen in the fridge one time at another place in the, in the garage. You know, and you, you know, you, you look at that and it's curdled milk, it's nasty. Um, you you open that thing up, pour it out in the sink and you're about to upchuck, it stinks and all of that.
Speaker 1:But I felt like God was saying hey, you can pour out what's in your heart, even if it's as nasty as curdled milk. And that's part of trusting in Him is pouring your heart out before Him. And so I'm really grateful that I got let go. Yeah, because I was running at a clip that didn't sustain communion with God in the way that we all need. And I needed those Sunday afternoon walks and the quiet moments and yeah it's, and it probably saved my marriage. Honestly, the I mean we're at 25 years now and, like the first two years were hard because I was doing it was it was not sustainable.
Speaker 1:And so we started slowing the pace. Andvor in the grace and it was awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. So good, god is good. That's one of the things when I've had moments, you know, not the same, but you know the tough times and you're just like remembering that God is good and he knows how to give good gifts. And it's good Like. You know, like really trying to like remind yourself of that kind of stuff during the hard times and then being able to look back and go man, that was tough but like, look look at the the fruit of staying close to God and doing the right things through all those moments. And you know it sounds like you look back and you got lots of fond memories. I do, and you know it sounds like you look back and you got lots of fond memories, I do.
Speaker 2:I mean, so we're going to get into kind of your story. Like you wrote the book Glad You're here, yeah, and that's based on a pretty cool story. Yeah, you know, who knows the journey you just described? Maybe, if you do something different, like that story doesn't exist. So, yeah, right, like. But so tell us, you wrote a book. It's called Glad You're here, two Unlikely Friends Breaking Bread and Fences.
Speaker 1:And that's the subtitle. We say Unlikely Friends. I co-wrote it with my best friend, Walker Hayes, and he's a singer, songwriter, country music star and for people who you may know, the song Fancy Like yeah, we fancy like applebee's on a date.
Speaker 2:I'm telling you. We have 20 middle school kids coming over today and I'm gonna play that song to start the party. That's crushing pool party for, for all the middle school graduates.
Speaker 1:And that's how we're gonna start it off, you're gonna, you're gonna have to video that. I want to see that if anybody breaks out into the fancy like dance. It went crazy viral that song did and launched his career into another stratosphere. But when we met it was over 10 years ago and we say unlikely friends because we really were. You would have never put the two of us together on paper to become best friends, but God did that and so we.
Speaker 1:He was an atheist. He wanted nothing to do with the church. He had some church hurt from the past and he was really struggling with alcoholism. I didn't even know how deep it was at the time but you know he would say, hey, he was a high, high functioning alcoholic Um and he was struggling with a kind of a failing music career. He had.
Speaker 1:He moved here, like many people do um to Nashville. He came from Mobile chasing a dream and um ended up playing at the bluebird and all this kind of stuff, found out that they sing their own songs at the bluebirds. Who went out and he's like, okay, I gotta write original songs and he started doing that. He got signed pretty early on, you know, with capital records and and but he had kind of the same moment that I had, where he got cut, he got let go, he lost his record label, and so very early on, as we were hanging out together and the story is, our wives met first. So his wife is Lainey, my wife is Laura. They met at a neighborhood function, um, and then where's the connection?
Speaker 2:proximity wise, are you guys? You live in the same neighborhood and that's. They ran into each other at some function. You're saying that was kind of like just the random connection.
Speaker 1:We were. We were all living in West Franklin and they were in another neighborhood. That was, you know, maybe five minutes from where we were living at the time, but they had a mutual connection and, uh, someone had we've we've all moved different times, you know, at this point.
Speaker 1:But so essentially, uh, laura and Laney find themselves together at a, at a someone's house, and that house, um, actually was kind of in our backyard, you know, at the time, uh, you could see it from where we were. And so then they reconnected. They saw each other at a basketball. So our kids, my son and and, uh, their boys, were playing basketball and you know, laura recognizes laney and hey, you know, and they reconnected, and so lara invited them to church, like, hey, would y'all want to come to church? Um, and laney said yes, and you know, walker, he wasn't too happy with with lara at the time now.
Speaker 2:Our lives are way more spiritual than us anyway, I get it a hundred percent.
Speaker 1:Well, our church was meeting on Saturday nights. It was a brand new church plant. We, we, we were trying to just get any building that would allow us to meet, and so, you know, saturday night's a good time and we were in the boonies, real South of Franklin, right next to Thompson station. And you know this is the winter we met, so the sun sets in Nashville at like four, 30 in the afternoon and you know, there so it's nighttime when you're driving to church and all this kind of stuff, a lot of hurdles, a lot of hurdles, um, to do this. But they said they were going to come and they and they, they came. You know a lot of people would say, yeah, I'll come. Right, 30 people in this church plan at the time. So they, they show up, walker, you know, comes in and he says the first words out of my mouth were um, we're glad you're here. But I said it like dude, glad you're here, like he felt it, you know, and I was stoked that they came. You know, we did the meeting and everything, and then afterwards, um, it's like, have y'all had dinner? And they hadn't. So we all went to one of their favorite places and that ended up becoming a rhythm like they would come saturday night we would do dinner after church and then we would be over at each other's houses, like on a Tuesday, wednesday night, back and forth, and then we would go to all the kids' games together. So Walker and I would do like the scoreboard for my kids' baseball games and all this stuff, and so we developed this huge fast friendship.
Speaker 1:And so we developed this huge fast friendship and I was a struggling church planting pastor, discouraged and you know, and he was working through his stuff, and we kind of bonded over our brokenness, including like, hey, you know, he's like I lost the record, I'm like, dude, I got let go from a church you know like, and he related to me and I related to him and I felt like I could tell him anything and everything and um, he, god, just um, really blessed both of our families through that friendship. So, laura and Laney, super tight best of friends, walker and I, super tight best friends, and our kids were the same, uh, but again, he, he didn't um want to have anything to do with the name Jesus, um, when at one point they lost a sponsored vehicle that they had sponsored through kind of songwriting stuff that he had. And they came in and pounded it and everything, cause it was basically uh, it was part of the uh, a sponsorship, and they took it back. Um, so they didn't have a vehicle. So well, I started praying like Lord, please help us to be able to give them our van, because they need it. They had borrowed it before and they have a bigger family than we do.
Speaker 1:And so I closed the deal in staffing and we bought a little used vehicle and we cleaned up our van and we secretly took it to the ball field one night after his son Baylor's game, and I had the keys, the title and the pen in my hand and I, and then, you know, he came up. He's like what do y'all do? Hey, bro, what are y'all doing here? Because we had missed the game. And then he's doing them. He's looking at like why do you have two cars? What do you do? And I had, bro, all you got to do is sign and this is yours. And he stepped back like no, no, no way, no, I'm not taking the car.
Speaker 1:And I was like I've already signed my part, like all you got to do is sign. And we kind of had a little bit of an argument because I didn't want to take no for an answer but he didn't want to like accept it. And finally Lila, his daughter, his oldest, said Dad, just take the car. And so he, he took it. And it was a little awkward when they drove away because I was telling Laura like I hope I didn't offend him. You know, I hope this didn't damage our relationship. Right, I was concerned. And man, I hope this didn't damage our relationship. Right, I was concerned. And a man boy, it did not damage our relationship. What it? It really broke down some walls kind of in his heart and everything and some barriers. And he's, he really contemplated a lot about that and he would always we'd be at the ball field and be like, dude, you gave me your car and he didn't know how to thank me.
Speaker 1:So he wrote a song and the song was called Craig and the song is really all about our friendship and my relationship with Jesus, saying from the perspective of a man who didn't believe in him, who didn't believe in Jesus, and it was written as an atheist. And when I first got it I just wept and realized, oh, I'm right where God wants me, because I was looking around going. I'm really discouraged, I'm not seeing anything major happening in my life, in ministry, and we came here to help plant a church and see lives changed and what's going on. And you know, lord, am I in the right place? And um, I had sent an email to the pastoral team of redeeming grace and I'm not sure there's fruit here. I'm not sure I'm supposed to keep going.
Speaker 1:Anyway, he dropped that song in my lap and it really overpowered me. It felt like God himself singing over me, like the Zephaniah 317. The Lord, your God, is in your midst. A mighty one he'll save. He'll rejoice over you with gladness, he'll quiet you with his love. He'll exalt over you with singing, loud singing, and and um, that song was not really meant to go to anybody else, but his team heard it and they loved it and they put it on an album.
Speaker 1:And uh, then walker and laney lost a child. We walked through that as they lost oakley, their seventh, seventh in childbirth, almost lost Laney and slowly over time Walker's looking about what really matters in life and he would have deep conversations with me and things. And the guy was doing a lot when he was out on tour, read a book called the Secrets of an Unlikely Convert and he really resonated with it and really related to it. God was doing a lot when he was out on tour, read a book called the secrets of an unlikely convert and he really resonated with it and really related to it. And then when he got back, he sat down with us at a sushi restaurant and said I got something to share with you and I thought he was going to talk about, like you know, tour songs.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And I said what's up, man? And I've got like chopsticks in my hand, sushi, like coming out to my mouth when he says I believe. And I was like you believe, what do you believe? And he said all of it and I put my chopsticks down and I was like well, are you saying you believe Jesus is the son of God and that you want to live your life for his glory? And he said that's exactly what I'm saying, bro. And I was like I just stood up and gave him the hugest bear hug that I've ever given anybody, like squeeze life out of both of us and really into both of us. And I had to excuse myself. I went into the back restroom and fell on my knees and just worshiped God.
Speaker 1:And now Walker sings that song. They recut it with Mercy Me like Bart Millard of I Can Only Imagine. And now he sings it in a celebratory way in his concerts while he shares his testimony, whereas before he's saying it in a real contemplative way, like I don't know about all this, you know. But yeah, that's the story of glad you're here. It's been unbelievable to see. Only God could do it. In fact, we've got tattooed on our wrists Isaiah 40 to eight. I am the Lord, that is my name, my glory I give to no other. Uh, so that anytime I hear the story, or he shares the story, I think every grain of glory, every ounce of praise belongs exclusively to Jesus. So mine's on my left wrist and his is on his, his right wrist, yeah, that's it, man.
Speaker 2:I mean, I don't even really have anything to ask, like that's just awesome, like only god, you know it's territory that that story, I mean it's.
Speaker 2:It's like amplified in the sense of, like it's walker hayes and you know, like he he's a country star and all that. But like, okay, strip that part out for a sec and like, just how cool, like you guys loved up on this family and you cared about him and you built a friendship and they loved up on us and like, yeah, yeah, like you, it wasn't. Like Sometimes, as Christians, we can get up. It's all about helping people know Christ. That's the thing You're going after. Helping people. That's the main goal. People aren't open to it. You move on to the next people.
Speaker 2:That can be a thing I don't think maliciously or with you know bad intent or anything like that, but you end up doing that kind of thing. But like you just built this great friendship with a family and, and you know it, it took years. I don't know how many years that story went over, but it sounds like a number of years. Um, and your kids are best friends and you know, after x number of years, and your kids are best friends and you know, after X number of years, you know God is working the whole time and somebody gets to know him. Like I just think that's. That's like what it's all about. It's the best story on the planet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, yeah. Well, thanks for letting me share it, cause it always builds my faith. You know, you get. You get into just living regular life and we can forget I can forget just God's extraordinary work and ordinary daily life. I've got hanging over my window frame here, a verse from 2 Timothy 2. It just says remember Jesus, remember Jesus, I think my kids can memorize that one.
Speaker 2:They like to say Jesus wept, because it's an easy one to memorize, you know, so maybe remember Jesus.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's remember Jesus Christ, you know, risen from the dead. But, man, we can even get into living the Christian life in a way that you forget the Christ for whom you're living.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:It's just so. I find that so. Anytime someone shares their testimony, they share their story, they share what God has done in their lives. It just reinforces what we all need to remember, um, which is remember jesus. All right, so I appreciate the opportunity to reshare what how did he deliver the song to you?
Speaker 2:yeah, like what. What was that? You know, it wasn't supposed to go to anybody, but you did. He just text you like no, it's funny.
Speaker 1:Yeah no, that actually laney sent it to lara because walk walker was like. I mean, I've never written a song for a dude before this is a little different.
Speaker 1:You know, and I don't even know how he's going to respond to this and right, what he didn't know is it's his version of giving you a car. Yeah, well, he. And he that's what's so funny. Yeah, he just always, he always would say stuff like um dude, I'm going to do something for you, you know, and and uh. But he was trying to communicate gratitude, right, right, um, but the. But he was trying to communicate gratitude, right, but the way it was delivered.
Speaker 1:Actually, I had just gotten back from a ministry retreat and I was deeply discouraged coming back from that retreat and I had taken a walk in downtown Franklin, down Main Street, up 11th Avenue and back on Fair Street and I had just really had one of those Sunday walks. It wasn't a Sunday, it was a Monday, but one of those walks where I just poured my heart out to the Lord and I said Lord, you know that I try to encourage other people. You know that I just need you to please encourage me right now. Right, is anything I'm doing making a difference in anybody's life? Please help me see that you have me where you want me, because we were about five years into the church plan at the time and I was like I'm not sure my contributions are doing anything here.
Speaker 1:And that night I took Laura on a date. We were at the Chipotle. We came into our car and I'm telling her how discouraged I was, telling her the way I was praying, and her phone buzzed and it was from Lainey. And I remember being a little bit agitated that she was looking at her phone while I was trying to pour out my heart and I'm like babe, who's that? And she said it's Laney. And I was like can you tell Lane that you know we're out on a date? And she's like well, it's got an MP3 on it. It says your name, it says Craig. I think we should play the memo, the note, and I was, I kind of resisted that and she persisted.
Speaker 1:And that's when, through the speakers, I first heard I met craig at a church called redeeming grace. It's like he understood my I don't want to be here face. I fell out of place, I smelled like beer. But he just shook my hand, said I'm glad you're here. And then it goes through. And just like I was overcome with emotion I was, I just wept and and I couldn't respond. So I just said to lara, you know, probably an hour later, I was like can you just say I'm speechless? And she just said Craig's speechless and yeah, but I mean he's played that at PAX Stadium, houston, 70,000 people and he'll share his story. Yeah, and I mean that's why I have this on my wrist, because I'm like man, only God can do that Unbelievable. I couldn't dream of it and God did it. That's how he delivered it. He delivered it through his wife and I'm so grateful.
Speaker 2:That's cool. One of the kindest things I've ever received. It's the power of just loving people right. Then God worked through it all Like you were doing what you do, like to love people and and be like Jesus. And then God does something pretty crazy Like and he's and and uh, you know, some dude is writing songs about you.
Speaker 1:And he loved on me and man, yeah, I'm, I, just, I just I'm so thankful for that expression of kindness, yeah, because I'm a guy who kind of can beat myself up, you know. Yeah, so to hear that and is like, whoa, thank you Lord.
Speaker 2:Big deal. Well, I guess we could sit. It's such a cool story. I could sit and keep asking you questions about it. But like you're also coming to speak at our conference in October, Woo Cannot wait.
Speaker 2:Like you're. You know the random connection is you happen to run into Tithely somewhere and you've been using Tithely at your church or maybe in your like somewhere. You had a connection right. And so Justin, our marketing guy, you know, knew of you and somehow you know made connection and here we are. But you're going to come and speak at the conference, but hospitality on the you know the topic of hospitality or something around hospitality and I can't help but think like that whole story kind of is about showing hospitality to people. Right, like glad you're here when he shows up to church and take it from there, kind of thing. So yeah, tell us more. Like you know, it's obviously months out, you're working on things, but why hospitality? Why is that something that you're excited to talk about?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I love the idea of just transformational hospitality and building deep relationships. In an isolated and lonely world, I feel like we are more. Our world is more connected than ever before. But there's a world of difference between table connection and tablet connection. And we just have a ton of tablet connection. You know it's, it's the iPhone, the iPad, the computer, the. You know social media, instagram, facebook, twitter, not X, sorry about that. Uh, and Facebook, twitter, not X, sorry about that. And you know TikTok, you name it.
Speaker 1:I mean, we are more connected than ever before, but more we're lonelier than we've ever been, and so table connection is is transformational hospitality. It's eye to eye, heart to heart, soul to soul, person to person, around a table of, or how many followers you have or your influence, anything like that, but just because you're breathing and you're created in the image of God, you are filled with value and worth and dignity, and it has nothing to do with your achievements or your or your accolades. I was at a, an event where we we wrote down a lie that you have to get out of your head, you know, and what I wrote down is my value, and my worth is dependent on my accomplishments. I wrote that as a lot. You know that's and and we took it up and we burned it, you know, in in a fire and different people shared their different lives and whatnot. But I think we live in a very achievement oriented culture and then you add in all of these different metrics, you know, on socials and whatnot, for how well you're achieving, and my goodness, it leads to anxiety and to depression and really to isolation, you know, because you're, instead of being vulnerable, of being vulnerable you are, at times we can put on kind of the mask and of whatever we think will help us to achieve. And so that's what's on my heart.
Speaker 1:Really to talk about is um, transformational hospitality, and I just love reading through the gospels and you see, you see that happen everywhere. Jesus goes, like people are coming and he has. You know, jesus was known as the friend of sinners and tax collectors. That was not a um, that was not like a stamp of approval of him, that was a slam, you know, for jesus from the religious, quote-unquote religious elite and um. Yet what we find with the savior is that people who are broken are drawn to him and he and he set them at ease in his presence. You know. That's why he says come to me all you are weary and heavy laden, I'll give you rest. Like it was restful to be around jesus as a broken person. Um, it wasn't restful to be around him if you, if you were kind of putting on the airs that you were yeah, you had it all together yeah, you had it all together, yeah he had some.
Speaker 1:He had some words for, you know, for the pharisees and sadducees, the religious elite and those who thought they had it all together. But, man, if you came in going, I've blown it. I have blown it. Jesus had a way of of uh setting you at ease and we have hanging over our coffee station. It says to all who are weary and need rest, to all who mourn and long for comfort, to all who failed and desire strength, to all who have sinned and need a Savior, this home opens wide her doors with a welcome from Jesus, the mighty friend of sinners. And I got that from Ray Ortland Jr, who got that from, I think, 10th Prez in Philadelphia, I believe. But, man, I have seen God do unbelievable things, just as people dine together over a table of grace. It's amazing. So let's talk about that.
Speaker 2:I can't, I can't wait. It's going to be fun and it'll be fun to meet you in person and just kind of hang out, and you know we'll uh I'm excited yeah, I. Want to hang in san diego is what I want to do, I want to get, I want to get out there man watch the sunset, we're watching plague off. We we might have to just play craig. You know I'm going to get that mp3 and play Craig at the concert or at the at the conference to open it up.
Speaker 1:Um well, you'll hear. You'll hear me immediately share Isaiah 42,. Eight then, cause that's where I'm, a hundred percent, a hundred percent, Um, what like.
Speaker 2:As we wrap, tell me about glad you're here ministries Like, what's that you know?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it yeah. Well, it really is about everything that we're talking about here. I, you know, I share. I continue to write and speak. People can go to CraigAllenCoopercom and check out the info on both of those, on both of those, but glad you're here.
Speaker 1:Ministries is really to help equip other, you know, churches and organizations and nonprofits and businesses, you know to to have open arms of transformational hospitality, you know, so that you can welcome people just as they are. I think it's what we all need, you know, we, we need that acceptance that's not based on our performance and uh, and so it's the opportunity to to speak and to write. Um, I just dropped another book called Overflowing Mercies, which is a devotional book, uh, and it is on meditation, meditations on the tender heart of God, and so where people would see through glad you're here the, the hands and feet of Jesus at work. They, many people wrote in and shared that through overflow and mercies, you would feel his heart. You know what's God's heart for you, what's his heart for me and and else. And so, yeah, continue to write, speak and just watch what only God can do through it all.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's amazing man. Well, Craig, thanks for coming on the show today and telling us the story. I had a good time. So hopefully everybody listening just appreciates that story and goes to check you out. I'm glad to hear ministries and comes to MCL to hear you speak. Man, let's do it.
Speaker 1:I can't wait for MCL. It's going to be awesome. It's going to be fun.
Speaker 2:It's going to be fun. Thank you for having me?
Speaker 1:Where should folks?
Speaker 2:go? Should they go? So they just look for Glad You're here, ministries online or somewhere else that you like people to go check it out.
Speaker 1:Everywhere my handle is is essentially at Craig Allen Cooper everywhere, and Allen is a L L E N and so if you just type in Craig Allen Cooper, it'll take you to Craig Allen Coopercom. And then I'm mostly active on Instagram Try to share encouragements, you know, on a regular basis there, but you can find me pretty easily through Craig Allen Cooper anywhere and then that's connected to glad you're here. Ministries yeah.
Speaker 2:Love it, love it. That's awesome. Well, thanks for coming on, craig, appreciate it.
Speaker 1:My pleasure. Thank you, Frank.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks guys for listening. Uh, great show shared on all the socials and we'll check you guys next week on another episode of modern church leader. See ya.