Modern Church Leader
Hear pastors share what's working in their churches. Welcome to Modern Church Leader, a show for church leaders to learn business strategies, leadership skills, church tech tips, and generosity. Tune in for powerful interviews to help you grow your church to be more effective, efficient, and powerful for the kingdom of God. For more information, visit https://www.mclconference.com/
Modern Church Leader
Strengthening Church Finances Through Biblical Principles w/ Abel Pomar of AdelFi
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For more information on AdelFi Credit Union at https://www.adelfibanking.com
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Hey guys.
Speaker 2:Frank here with another episode of Modern Church Leader. I am here today with Abel Pomar. Abel, what's going on, brother?
Speaker 1:Hey, God bless you, Frank. Good to be here. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:It's good to see you and I mean this one's going to be kind of fun because you've spent a long time in like the financial services world doing a bunch of things and now you are at AdelFi where you're helping churches and ministries with things and you'll get into it. But it's cool because obviously, tithely, we were born out of wanting to help churches raise money and to do it online, as the world was moving online. So you know, we have a bit of a you know, an overlapping kind of mission and how we're helping churches. So glad to have you on the show today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, glad to be here. Glad to you know partner or chat with a partner in the body of Christ that's out there helping ministries succeed. So excited to be here, amen.
Speaker 2:Well, why don't you start off by just kind of telling the audience a little bit about yourself and your background in church and even your professional life, how they've kind of come together?
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. I'll give you a quick synopsis. I grew up in a Christian home, and so I think I was introduced to the Lord, at least from my parents' walk with the Lord at a very young age, active in church, you know all that usual thing, but I think it wasn't until I turned 19 that I think God brought me to a place where I had to kind of question do I really believe in God, right? And that was when my dad passed away unexpectedly.
Speaker 2:Oh man.
Speaker 1:And it really rocked my world. It was a very challenging time. Long story short, I think through that period of time I immersed myself in God's word more than I ever had before and it matured me, I think, in my faith quickly. And then it's interesting Around that time I met who is my current wife. At that time she was just part of the church, younger than I was, but she was so mature for her age and she just kind of came alongside me than I was, but, but but she was so mature for her age and she just kind of came alongside me, because I think she saw what I was going through and just constantly was a positive voice pointing me back to the lord, and I think through that channel as well, you know, I I leaned on the lord more and more and so I deepened my faith there and, um, I haven't let go since. So God is good and I'm blessed for that. So I'm grateful.
Speaker 1:On my professional side of my life, I think the journey was one where, you know, I always felt that I had kind of this kind of I don't know appreciation or affinity for just all things, kind of numbers, you know, kind of more of an analytical person by nature and I found myself in, you know, a large national bank for a number of years doing what I thought was really good work and I'm proud of the work I did there. I think it's a good institution, good bank. But it was interesting to me because as time progressed and this was right around 2013, 2014, the organization was going through some changes around 2013, 2014,. The organization was going through some changes and I saw the internal culture of the organization was shifting in such a way where it was pushing employees to support causes and maybe beliefs and lifestyles that as a believer in Christ, as a follower of Jesus, were really at really at odds maybe with my faith at times and challenged that. And I found myself really kind of questioning you know, wow, you know, how do I, how do I lean into my professional skills and be who I am as a sincere Christian at the workplace.
Speaker 1:So I did the best I could, right, in one-on-one settings with teammates and others. I could share my faith and it was very openly received in that sense. But on a more formal level, it was discouraged from anyone doing that Right. And right around that time, AdelFi at that time was called Evangelical Christian Credit Union and the credit union at that time was looking for a chief operating officer union and the credit union at that time was looking for a chief operating officer. I came to find out about the opportunity through a friend of mine who saw a posting and said hey, you know, that kind of posting sounds a lot like what you do and what you like to do. Have you ever thought about this? And that person knew how my faith walked right. And they saw the evangelical Christian in the name and said maybe it's a good fit.
Speaker 1:So I kind of put it off because I thought I've never heard of such a thing as a Christian credit union. What is this? So I didn't really do much with it. Talked to my friend a month later he said did you follow up? I said no, I followed up. Anyway, long story short, after the process of contacting a recruiter, here I am. I was hired on as COO, became the CEO in 2016, and been just loving what we do at Adelphi.
Speaker 1:We changed our name, by the way, in February of 2022. The reason for that is, yeah, the reason for the change of name is, first of all, evangelical Christian Credit Union, big mouthful, right From a marketing perspective. Who can remember such a big name? So we used to kind of go by E-C-C-U. And then you think about that and you go well, what is Iku? People would call us Iku or whatever, and nobody knew what that was. So we changed our name to Adelphi, which is taken from the word Adelphos, which appears over 300 times in the New Testament. It means brother and sister in Christ. We shortened Adelphos to Adele and put FI at the end of it to kind of signal that we're a financial institution, kind of digitally oriented. And there you go. It is who we are today, adelphi so that's the story.
Speaker 2:What do you guys do there? Like give us the the you know elevator pitch on what Adelphi does for churches.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so for churches we do many things. We do banking primarily, right. So all the treasury management, you know, basic checkings, savings account, money movement. We do a lot of money movement internationally for missions work. There are a lot of ministries that use us for that purpose and we do something unique in that area because a lot of institutions, well, from a secular perspective, they look at international money movement into some kind of dark countries, from dark meaning dark from the gospel perspective, and they say, well, you know, could this be money laundering, could this be terrorist activity? We vet our ministries really well and we know where the funds are going. They're going to spread the gospel. So we can kind of green light activities that a large national secular bank might say no to because they just don't understand the activity. So that's part of the unique value I think we bring there from a money movement perspective. We also do commercial real estate loans for churches as well. So if the church needs to refinance their building or acquire a building, that's right up our alleys, right, so right.
Speaker 1:You know kind of bookend it with banking and lending all the way through.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, yeah, that's pretty cool. Um, and how long has the organization been around?
Speaker 1:We've been around since 1964. So this year, as a matter of fact, I turned 60 years old in um October, um, so it is a unique anniversary for us. Us, it's an exciting time because since I've been at the Crite Union, we've been diversifying it a bit. We still help ministries and churches, we also help small business owners and we also help consumers right. So we provide all these services amongst the full gamut of the body of Christ. I like to say yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's very cool. Well, now that we kind of understand your story a little bit, you know you got a glimpse into it and what you do. I mean you guys have a unique vantage point on churches and ministries just from a like financial stewardship perspective. So I wanted to get into like what you're like in your experience, you know, working there and working with churches. Like what are you seeing that really helps churches improve like financial stewardship? Uh, you know, over time, like you guys have like just I don't know an interesting, you sit at an interesting place where you help churches with kind of all their finances and I'm sure you've seen a lot of churches do good things and maybe not so good things and you know you've you've been able to kind of figure out what works well there. So I'd love to get your take on improving financial stewardship of churches.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely, over the decade that I've been involved at the credit union, I can say I can see a number of things that I've seen work and maybe not work right.
Speaker 1:And it really all starts with leadership. Right, it really I guess I hate to kind of use that phrase it starts at the top, but it really does right. It starts with the elder board, it starts with the senior pastor. There really has to be a visible commitment to good stewardship. Right, it can't be about egos, it can't be about agendas. It really has to be about the Lord and it has to be about going back to biblical principles, about you know. Ultimately we make plans, as the word says, but God determines. And I think if a leadership body embodies that and seriously embraces that, um, it isn't just words on on a page of a bible, but really lives that out, I think it could be very powerful. Because I think at times we've seen leaders, um, and leadership uh bodies get into trouble when I think they think they're doing things out of their own strength and they're doing things out of their own.
Speaker 1:maybe, um, you know skills and talents and, uh, you know their own ideas, are kind of putting things forth. Right, it really comes back to that leadership commitment, to stewardship.
Speaker 2:Um, another thing that I like just pause on that for a second. Like, what have you seen Like? Or do you have any examples of like, uh, and not necessarily specific? Oh, this seen Like? Or do you have any examples of like, and not necessarily specific? Oh, this church did this, but like. You know, what does it look like for a leadership team to really embrace good stewardship at a church?
Speaker 1:You know, I think a subtle way that you can see this is typically by how many, how ambitious a program that they have in their church.
Speaker 1:So it's great to have programs. We all want to help every aspect of the body of Christ and I think most churches try to help as many people. But I think, coming to terms with the reality that there's a limit to the resources God has given you today, and what should be focused on today, versus trying to be everything, including maybe what God hasn't called you to, so it's kind of seriously sitting down and understanding what has God called this congregation to and staying focused and not getting too broad and too ambitious with the aspirations, making sure that it really is God leading you there, as opposed to just some maybe whim or some idea that a leader particularly has. I think that's an important one and one that I don't, you can't it's hard to teach out of a textbook, right, but I think it's a call to prayer, it's a call to humility, you know, and it's a call to be honest with yourself as a congregation, right, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm jotting down a few things as we're chatting. I love that. Do you find that churches, when it comes to good stewardship, like the way that they communicate to the membership is part of that?
Speaker 1:Very much so. I think that you know leaders set an example and they live out an example. And the communication of stewardship. I think most congregants I mean I'm a congregant, right, I sit in my church pew and, as we all know, there are the financial appeals that go out if there's a campaign or a certain objective that the church is trying to reach, and those are all justifiable and make sense. But it isn't just about stewardship, isn't about just making an appeal, it's about teaching the body of Christ.
Speaker 1:You know what place money has in the life of an individual, right? And I think money is such a test for all of us, right, because it can be a false sense of security and it can feel like if I just hang on to more and more of it, I'm going to be okay or I'm going to be better off. And it's a very deceiving thing to put your trust in money because at some point you're not going to have enough to solve all of the problems that life brings. Right, only the Lord can help us through those challenges. Right, I think it's helping the body understand the place money plays, helping the body of Christ understand the kind of supremacy of Christ, not only in the universe but in our hearts. He has to have that place of supremacy in our hearts for us to surrender. And I think that's all you know teaching.
Speaker 1:And I don't know that enough churches spend enough time talking about. What does generosity really look like from a biblical perspective? You know God isn't exactly calling us I don't see it in Scripture to empty our bank accounts and basically become impoverished. I don't see that in Scripture. But he does call us to be a cheerful giver. But what does that mean? How do we become a cheerful giver in a society where you see inflation over the last few years, kind of wreaking havoc right through congregations and communities? I think we you know from the pulpit more needs to be taught about what that looks like, definitely yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that. I love that. Okay, definitely, yeah, yeah, I love that, I love that. Um, okay, uh, like you hit kind of leadership, vision and strategy uh and making that a big, big part of things. Um, what, what's the? What's the next thing on your list in terms of, like, just good stewardship out of church?
Speaker 1:well, you know, I think. Then it comes to the practical things. So you know you could teach it from the pul, you could live it out, but you have to hold yourself accountable and that's, I think, where budgeting comes in. You have to live within your means, right, and this is something that I've seen over the decade. You know, we have teams of relationship managers that work with ministries and our relationship managers see a lot right ministries and our relationship managers see a lot right.
Speaker 1:And what's difficult at times, I think, is some congregations, some ministries, have a hard time being honest with themselves about, let's say, expenses.
Speaker 1:And it's good to have best practices, certain performance ratios that you know, maybe like salary to total expenses or other things like that, so that you can kind of keep an eye on it.
Speaker 1:It doesn't mean that every church has to be perfectly in sync, but you should have certain key metrics that you watch and if they start going in a particular direction or a trend starts to emerge that doesn't look good, have a conversation within your leadership body about it. Don't let it fester, because the longer you let something fester without at least looking behind the curtain, the bigger problem you might be creating. So that willingness to be honest, willingness to, in a sense, recognize that you might have put a great structure in place five, 10 years ago. But that organizational structure or are those processes or those controls you have in place, they may need adjustment over time because the factors around you and circumstances around you are changing Right. So you know, being willing to to, to adjust, um, to course correct, I think is important that lead. That points back to humility, you know, and having the humility to do that right.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I think those things are are extremely important what are some of the numbers that you guys, uh, encourage churches to look at, like some of those kind of key metrics to help you pay attention, not just, oh, this is how much money is coming in and this is how much we're spending. Hopefully they're paying attention to that. But you know what are some of the other things that you help churches kind of understand and then make them part of their, like, budgeting or their financial process and yeah, and it's a great question, it really depends a lot on the church circumstances.
Speaker 1:But in general terms, we look at, like, debt service ratio as a key metric. We look at salary to expense ratio as a key metric. We look at attendance and average giving per household and things of that sense to really give an idea of what's going on in the church. You know things like debt coverage, right, debt service ratio that's important because, as you just said a moment ago, you should have enough income to cover your expenses. If you don't, you have a problem, right? Well, we encourage our members to have, you know, well, above a one-to-one on that ratio, right, in most cases, probably about 125, at least 25% more income than you have expenses, right.
Speaker 1:It's hard, you know, because I get it, churches are put in place, put in a community to help and serve and there's so much need around us that sometimes it's hard to know when to say no or where to stop. And that's why I made that point earlier in our conversation. That kind of knowing how many programs that you can take on realistically is so critical to the, I think, the long-term health of a congregation, because I've seen it over the last 10 years. When a church takes on more than it can do, it can find itself in trouble, and then it's it's sustainability, uh, comes into question. You know, possibly right, and then more uncomfortable things have to be done to to rectify the situation right, yeah, no, that totally makes sense.
Speaker 2:Um, any examples of, uh, you know situations. Again, you don't have to be specific about who or where or anything, but you know just where you've seen churches do a really good job at. You know, being financial stewards and like improving over time, like getting better and better at this practice.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah. So one specific congregation comes to mind in Las Vegas. This is a congregation that Hispanic congregation growing very significantly over the last few years. This particular pastor kind of adopted this philosophy of wanting to be good stewards right and wanting to teach his congregation how to be better stewards themselves so that they could, you know, thrive in this country, and so one of the conversations I had with this pastor really was very encouraging to me personally because he said that he had to spend about five years.
Speaker 1:This was not a one or two sermon exercise.
Speaker 1:He said it took about five years for him to help this congregation move to a place.
Speaker 1:Specifically, he was measuring digital giving as a success metric right, and it took five years for him to move his congregation from about 80 to 90% cash to about 90% online giving. Yeah, um, like midweek uh bible studies on stewardship and giving and other things where he helped the congregation understand not only the, the, their responsibility from a biblical perspective on giving, but how the church would benefit from moving its giving to online mechanisms where you know you, you get um better security for their staff, because their staff having to handle so much cash was becoming actually a security problem. There was also kind of the logistical problems of just depositing things and moving things around and how more efficient their processing of donations became when you move things online. So that was a phenomenal example. But, as I said, it was a committed leader who knew that to help people understand a new concept and to embrace new practices it takes time, it doesn't happen overnight and you've got to have that commitment from the leadership to see it through, and he's a great example of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's cool and we hear you know stories like that, obviously being in the digital, giving kind of tech space, it is a big deal for churches to go from cash and check moving to the digital and it doesn't surprise me it took them five years, you know?
Speaker 2:I mean we still have churches today that are don't have digital giving and they're. They're just coming and they're saying, you know what? We had some new members or some younger members, or maybe some people moved away and they still want to give, like all these different little things that make them take the step into digital right. Um, and it's 2024 and churches are still, uh, out there, you know, passing the plate as the primary means of of raising money and allow people to give. So, right, yeah, that's, that's a great story that's a great story.
Speaker 1:That's a great one. There's other examples too, where we've had ministries that have again committed to far more. And again I don't blame the hearts of these organizations for wanting to help their communities Because again there's so much need around the world and in our country, but not knowing where those limits are, which goes back to budgeting and setting, you know, performance targets. I mean it's interesting because you know ministry is such a hard thing but to execute ministry you do need the financial side of things to run well to enable the heart, you know work, to happen right. So it's this interesting art of balancing those two things which I think comes into play. And I see a lot and I've seen this where certain churches in certain geographies that had very large amounts of land around their church and, as they were kind of challenged with some budgeting situations, I know in conversations with some of our relationship managers we've been able to connect some of those ministries with other Christian partners and investors who are able to go in, and churches that have like a lot of like just raw land, or have been able to redevelop some of that land for low income housing. All that helps the church with new revenue streams where they don't necessarily have to sell off the land but they could partner with these other institutions and kind of co-share some of that revenue, In essence helping the ministry kind of continue to fulfill its mission. So there's a lot of unique situations that we get involved in. It's all very case specific.
Speaker 1:But you know, I'm always shocked and amazed at the body of christ and how pervasive it is. You know, sometimes if you watch the news it feels like where's the body of christ? It feels like we're not there anywhere, right. But when you really get out in the world, we we're, we are everywhere. God has his remnants everywhere and he pulls together the resources to really help his kingdom grow, um, as he determines, right. And it's pretty neat thing to see it from from vantage point I get to see it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I love it, abel. I love what you guys are doing. It's cool to spend some time just talking through what you've seen from your vantage point. How do churches get a hold of you guys to learn more about what you're doing? Churches can bank all over the place right, there's lots of banks out there, but you guys, being focused on serving churches and ministries, I think know unique and special and, like you said you, you can look at a church's finances with a different lens than maybe a traditional bank, because you understand, you know the the work that churches are doing and how what income looks like and all of that. So, yeah, I'd love, just yeah. Where can people go to learn more about you guys?
Speaker 1:Absolutely Easy to find us um adelfibankingcom. Let me spell that because people will always misspell Adelphi, so it's A-D-E-L-F-I Banking, b-a-n-k-i-n-g dot com and you can learn more about us there. We really serve the entire United States from a banking perspective for ministries and non-ministries and individuals. We also it's kind of small little known fact is we also serve missionaries in about 125 countries around the world as well, who bank with us, because we can get them funds from the US pretty easily too. So it's kind of a neat thing we do there as well.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. Okay, adelfibankingcom Folks go check it out. We serve lots of church leaders so hopefully you know we can send some folks your way and they can just learn more about what you guys are doing.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you, Frank, appreciate that.
Speaker 2:Love it. Well, abel, thanks for coming on Again. Like with every podcast, I could sit and keep asking questions and talking about these things, but I also want to be respectful of people's time, as they're, you know, driving to work or from work, or however they listen to their podcasts. So thanks for coming on today.
Speaker 1:It was a pleasure, Frank.
Speaker 2:God bless you Appreciate it, guys. Thanks for listening. We appreciate you guys. Follow If you're not, you know, subscribed on a podcast, if you're on YouTube or seen it on social media. We would love your support. Give it a like. Give it a like, give it a comment and we'll catch you next week on another episode of Modern Church Leader.
Speaker 1:Bye-bye.