How the Next Iteration of the Internet Will Transform the Fashion Industry and Benefit Independent Designers and Luxury Brands Ft: Michelle Reeves

THE EPISODE:  
Michelle Reeves speaks on how blockchain and emerging technologies can support the work and careers of independent fashion designers and the business of luxury and lifestyle brands. And best yet, not at the cost of the planet or human exploitation. She offers deep insights on how brands can better connect with and bring unique value to their communities, streamline operations, drive revenue, and protect their IP. Want to learn more about how web3 and immersive experiences can positively intersect with the world of fashion and brand growth? This episode is a must-listen.

EPISODE RESOURCES
Visit our website for guest info, transcripts, links, and resources for today's show.

GUEST: 
Michelle Reeves is an international entrepreneur who has built multiple businesses across Web2 and Web3. She is the Co-Founder & CEO of MAVION, a global fashion and NFT platform that connects physical assets to digital collectibles that drive rewards to NFT holders & brand partners. Named on the 2022 Power List by Marie Claire USA, and “Queens of Crypto” by FORBES, she is a trusted voice in NFTs & Web3 fashion. She has educated & consulted for top executives and fortune 500 brands entering into the Web3 space across sports, fashion, and entertainment including Netflix & Nike. As Michelle’s influence continues to grow, she remains committed to using her knowledge and expertise to promote the development of a more decentralized and democratic digital world. She is passionate about empowering individuals and communities to take control of their digital lives, and she believes that the potential of blockchain technology to transform the world is only just beginning to be realized.  

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GUEST QUOTE:  
"It's sophisticated how these black market industries are operating. It is so overdue to incorporate some kind of verification truth serum into luxury goods to protect the consumer and to protect the brand themselves."  

Transcript

*NOTE: The transcript below does not include opening teaser and intro in time stamps. Begins at beginning of the interview… powered by AI.

Ashley Smith (00:03.966)

Hello everybody and welcome back to From the Blockchain. I am incredibly excited about today's show and today's guest. I think we're gonna be able to bring you a lot of value. Today I'm gonna be speaking with Michelle Reeves, a lovely lady that I've had the pleasure of meeting in person, which is very exciting because she actually happens to live all across the world from where I am. But Michelle Reeves is the CEO and co-founder of Mavion. She's an international entrepreneur who's built multiple businesses across Web2 and as the co-founder of Mavion, a global fashion and NFT platform that connects physical assets to digital collectibles that drive rewards to NFT holders and brand partners. I'm super excited to dive a little bit more into that. Named on the 2022 power list by Marie Claire USA and Queens of Crypto by Forbes, She has become a trusted voice in NFTs and web three fashion. She has educated and consulted for top executives and Fortune 500 brands entering into the web three space across sports, fashion and entertainment, including Netflix and Nike. As Michelle's influence continues to grow, she remains committed to using her knowledge and expertise to promote the development of a more decentralized and democratic digital world. She's passionate about empowering individuals and communities to take control of the digital lives and believes that the potential of blockchain technology to transform the world is only just the beginning and is only starting to be realized. Welcome to the show, Michelle. Thank you so much for being here. I know you have a much longer bio and I'm hoping we dive a little deeper into your history and expertise. But thank you for being here. How are you doing today?

michelle (01:45.55)

Great, Ashley, it is so wonderful to connect. Last time we saw each other was at the 11-11 launch with Paris Hilton and her new media company.

Ashley Smith (01:55.47)

Yes, yes, that was a very interesting event to be at. I think, Michelle, when I think of you, I think that you belong to this group, and please, excuse me if I'm like totally, if this is inappropriate, but you belong to me from my eyes into this more professional, business savvy group of especially female leaders that have spent really getting to understand web3 and what can be done with the technology. Kind of, although I'm sure you've de-jointed a little bit yourself over the last couple years, I kind of put you a little bit up on a pedestal and you do have a pretty interesting network. And I'm sure you have some insights from that network as to why they care. You know, Paris Hilton being a great example of someone who's doing some neat things in the space. But let's... Let's dive right in. Why don't we start with that? Why don't we talk a little bit more about you and your professional background to give some context to our audience?

michelle (02:58.058)

Yeah, I feel like Web3 actually is a little deja vu for me. So if we go back a billion years to 2007, I was working for this agency, IMG. They happened to represent a lot of our favorite athletes, personalities, models, you name it. At the time, Tiger Woods, Roger Federer, Heidi Klum, Kate Moss were people that I was supporting their agents with. And I remember having these conversations about this thing called Facebook.

Ashley Smith (03:02.246)

Mm-hmm.

michelle (03:27.722)

And of course the knee-jerk reaction from all the agents was, it's a scam, it's a fad, this is a total liability waiting to happen, we cannot have the talent connect and communicate directly to the public, absolutely not, we're gonna lose money. And of course I think we all know how that story panned out in the long run. And so I'm just really used to this initial knee-jerk reaction of, oh hell no, to things that are new, because it's unknown versus leaning in to grow with it, to go into the corners. So I kind of feel like I'm this emerging tech secret agent who's like, you know what? I'll go into this deep dark corner and check it out and see what's happening. I'll report back with what we should do. And that's what's happening in Web3 now with this new capability. It's like a bag of magic tricks and no one quite knows what to do with it yet, except there's just some cool stuff to play with. And that's where I think we were last year and what the public saw were these big explosive headlines of, you know, on Monday, this is so cool, it's the future. On Tuesday morning, oh my God, this has exploded, no one touch it, you know. I feel very comfortable in that space. It doesn't feel scary to me. It fuels me. It fuels my strategic creative thinking. And I love being the person who can then build that bridge for the magic trick of Web3 with which brand this could really help.

Ashley Smith (04:57.01)

So, and maybe let's dive into that a little bit deeper. What is it about Web3 and the technology that excites you and that thinks that you can bring value to brands and companies through the tech?

michelle (05:10.542)

First off, it's a truth serum. The truth will set you free. The idea that we finally, in a digital world, have this truth serum where we haven't had something that verifies and can't be changed and altered and copied or deleted is … That is a revolution. We hear it ad nauseam of what blockchain technology is as a digital ledger by having this truth serum, it allows us to interact very seamlessly. I love power to the people, so how can we use this truth serum to set freedom alight for individuals? In fashion, I look at something very simply as all these designers. Before blockchain, if you were a designer, you had to go and make the network, make the connections, have the education and really put yourself out there in a very high risk, high cost way to be discovered. You would have to manufacture clothes, you would have to know the right people, the right rooms to be in. You would have to have lawyers, you would have to have trademarks, you would have to protect any of your creative assets. Today in fashion with Web3 emerging tech like AI, with the support of blockchain behind you. You can create things at home without having access to expensive materials. All you need is a Wi-Fi connection and your pure raw talent and the blockchain will protect you because you can verify and authenticate this was yours, you created this, no one can take that ownership away from you and you can more seamlessly be a part of these digital web 3 communities to be discovered, to connect to a top influencer, a great brand or the people that you

Ashley Smith (06:47.172)

Mm-hmm.

Ashley Smith (06:51.88)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Ashley Smith (07:01.151)

Thank you.

michelle (07:06.562)

going to really connect your vision and creative thinking too.

Ashley Smith (07:13.942)

I don't want to go off too much on a tangent too early on in our conversation, but I don't have any hard opinions on this in particular. I'm not as well informed as I could be on the issue, but Shein fast fashion business, there's been a lot of criticism as of late from designers, for example, where their designs are just being totally ripped off. Now that's alleged. I don't know what's true. It's not true. But I think what you're saying actually is... could potentially be a problem solver for some of these designers, especially the ones who are more, I don't wanna say mom and pop, that's not the right word, it's not very fashionable, but folks who are really starting out. Any additional thoughts on that?

michelle (07:55.594)

Yeah, no, so many thoughts. Independent designers have been used and abused in this space to the point that these big heavyweight machines, if you will, like the Sheins, the Azoses of the world, would even reach out to them. They'd buy their products and then literally just send it straight to the factory to absolutely copy. They weren't even trying to hide their trail.

Ashley Smith (08:20.07)

Mm-hmm.

michelle (08:23.974)

because they knew that they could outlaw your any one of these independent designers. They wouldn't stand a chance. And now one by one, a few of them have actually said no, and they've bound themselves together. And in creating more class action suits against some of these brands, they can make some noise, but they can't stop it. And that's what I think the difference is. Like, yes, it's one thing to get the headline, if you recognize for the public to say, yeah, that was wrong, doesn't matter. Shein is a money-making behemoth that just feels like it can't be stopped. I think that these tech tools are really important for a lot of reasons. One, protect the IP of the incredible design ideas of independent designers. But two, it is so unsustainable. Even if you look from a consumer, a global perspective, success in growing a business for the future cannot just be at the cost of landfill, ethics, how we treat the human capital within these factories. It is, I think VCs have really hurt the fashion industry by looking at one set of metrics of what success looks like. And I love.

Ashley Smith (09:48.307)

Mm-hmm.

michelle (09:48.514)

that with Web3 technology, there's a new set of metrics that can be measured and prove success. These are metrics that an individual, independent designer can take control of. They can create digital fashion. They can create immersive experiences, not at the cost of the planet, not at the cost of human exploitation, and very low cost, very high returns, can make their own kind of new noise, you know, with, I look at things like AR filters. I was just down in Sydney maybe a month and a half ago talking to the top 100 fashion brands of Australia. And I was lucky enough to be at the end of the conference. So all day I've heard these brands talk about, you know, the future of AR, VR, AI, metaverses, gaming, and it's so far off. Nothing for us to worry about today. Let's focus on.

Ashley Smith (10:19.143)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

michelle (10:46.03)

SEO conversion. And so I thought, oh God, they're going to love me when I get up there. So I get up, I hold the mic, I'm like, hey, I'm just going to put it to you. If you do not have your eye on web three, you're not setting yourself up for success. Here's how you can use it today. Right now, every one of you are manufacturing lines of dresses, bathing suits, handbags just to send to your influencer community. And they will photograph it, they will use it for 15 minutes, they will throw it to the side. That is costing you thousands of dollars in manufacturing. The footprint of sustainability is thrown out the window with shipping. And it's pointless. Why not create a JPEG? A JPEG that can be used for your AR filters, get that out to influencers, send it in two colors, have the influencer community vote.

Ashley Smith (11:40.542)

Yeah. Mm-hmm. So, I'm going to go ahead and turn it over to you. So, I'm going to turn it over to you.

michelle (11:40.758)

Would you love to see this brand make it in pink or blue? Vote now. Make the best selling color, save money. Everyone wins. It costs you less. It saves you more and it increases your bottom line. It's not that hard. And you can do this today. I saw this tidal wave of culture shift happen in the room where everyone set up and thought, wait, hang on, this is what web three does. Yes. It creates.

Ashley Smith (11:58.818)

Mm-hmm.

Ashley Smith (12:08.27)

Right.

michelle (12:10.166)

benefit for you. And I think that's the thing that's been missing from the general conversation about Web3 is the actual use case of benefits. How do we make lives better? How do we make businesses more efficient? How do we save money but drive more revenue where it matters?

Ashley Smith (12:16.018)

Mm-hmm.

Ashley Smith (12:28.154)

So when you're speaking to companies and exploring some of these ideas with them, is that you think one of their biggest objections or challenges is that they just don't understand what the current opportunities look like?

michelle (12:41.326)

Absolutely. You've got people who are inside these companies, their job isn't to be a Web 3 disciple. Their job is to make great fashion and sell it for the highest price at the lowest cost in the fastest way. It's impossible for them to have their finger in the pulse of what this actually is in the tech world and how they can use it. Those are too many dots to connect. There's so few people I think out there like you and I who are the builders who are...

Ashley Smith (12:54.532)

Mm-hmm.

michelle (13:09.842)

I describe it as the flood of last year of interest and now the flood waters have subsided. There's muck left. But when you get through the muck, what is left are the actual real pillars of value that will change and create the empires of the future in all businesses across all industries. And that's hard for them to get out there and do. They've got bosses to report to and bottom lines to meet.

Ashley Smith (13:36.598)

Yes, that makes sense. So let's talk about that a little bit more. How does this relate to Mavion?

michelle (13:43.246)

So, Mavion is that bridge. I think of us as being that platform that's going through the muck of all the tech that's being like put out there in the headlines, what's real, what's not, what's just emerging versus what can be used now. And we work with our beauty and fashion brands to help them understand how they can implement it today. And I think a lot of those brands too, when we talk to them are like, look, we don't want to build a game. We don't want to build a metaverse. I'm like, great, you don't have to. If you're a…

current consumer isn't into gaming, don't build a game. If your current consumer loves handbags, loves lipstick, let's look at how the technology can make that experience better. How can the lipstick create fun filters so that they've got this great hot pink color in real life, but how could they use it across their other behaviors in Snapchat, in TikTok, in just their everyday Zoom calls? How can that lipstick

Ashley Smith (14:18.053)

Mm-hmm.

michelle (14:42.506)

be a living portal, a device in their handbag that offers benefits? Can they use that lipstick and scan their phone over it and unlock codes to the next season's color? Can this lipstick be a physical ticket that gets them into some of your previews or unlock content or a partner with another fashion brand that has the same Pantone color? We're kind of like a

talking about, don't think about the tech, think about what do you wish this lipstick could do? I think my best example when we talk to them is my Margarita story, which is, imagine this, you know, like your friends come over and, you know, they're sitting in your living room and you're excited to see them and all they keep talking to you about is this thing that they just bought called a blender. Like, hey, Ashley, I got this blender and it's got...

five speeds and it's got a lid and you plug it in and you can get the blender in red or stainless steel. You can get blenders that are really big or really small and you're like that's cool Michelle, like why are you talking about the blender? Well Ashley I haven't yet told you it makes margaritas. Like no one cares about the speed of the blender, just what does it do? Oh it's going to make me a yummy delicious drink every Friday? Done! So we need to help brands understand what is their margarita.

that they can put in front of the consumer and make them feel good.

Ashley Smith (16:13.518)

That's a wonderful example. I love it. It's memorable and it's one that like I might need to recycle at some point. I am wondering a little bit about key learnings over the last couple of years. You know having experienced the ups and downs now you're not new to innovation and probably have seen roller coaster

michelle (16:21.666)

Go for it, go for it.

Ashley Smith (16:42.19)

adoption or lack of adoption or public sentiment, etc. But any key learnings that you're thinking about as you move into the second half of 2023?

michelle (16:55.086)

Yeah, I'd say number one, it's not a race. If we go back to even just the Facebook, social media examples, it's not like this is a space where there's a land grab and you've got to be the first. You don't have to get it right the first time. The social media stars of today aren't the ones who started 15 years ago. They're the ones who maybe started 15 months ago, six months ago.

michelle (17:24.574)

and enter the space in the way that is most suitable to you. So don't feel like there's just one way to enter. Don't feel like you're behind and you've got to catch up and you've got to quickly just do something. It's okay, take a beat, take a breath, understand what it is you actually want this to do for you. Are you looking to create, oh, are you looking to create noise and headlines as a marketing campaign?

Are you looking to drive sales? Are you looking to increase your user base? Are you looking to collaborate and see how you can expand into a new group of users or an audience? Understand what it is you want out of it first and then work backwards to make the plan make the most sense for you. But just don't be afraid to take a moment and really be thoughtful in how you build your campaign.

or the model that you're using within this technology world that is really still changing. Even if you think you've got it right today and it's perfect, you might find in two weeks' time as you're bringing it to life, something new has just launched and that might be a better fit. Be willing to take a moment, make the changes as this technology is changing, and just put one foot in front of the other.

Ashley Smith (18:45.234)

Mm-hmm.

Ashley Smith (18:49.582)

Mm-hmm. I'd love to know, so that being said, who within organizations do you find yourself speaking to the most? I think that the assumption generally out there might be that it's people on the tech side that are exploring what can be done in tech. But by the way that you're speaking, I think you're probably speaking to people who are more in marketing.

Correct me, who are you talking to and how are they bringing these ideas into their organizations in an effective way?

michelle (19:24.426)

Yeah, it's two groups. It's either the founders or CEOs, or it is all the marketing teams. The product teams are just different. They're looking to create efficiency in what already exists, whereas I think marketing are the ones of, hey, we have something new and the product teams have to catch up and make that more efficient. So it's definitely marketing who want the noise, who are looking for new opportunities to...

Ashley Smith (19:29.78)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

michelle (19:54.722)

differentiate from their category and it's founders and CEOs who are like, we need to create new revenue streams. We need to create a new proprietary capability. Particularly in fashion, the number one proprietary thing to own, of course, would be verification and authentication, particularly for more premium limited edition items within fashion, accessories, luxury goods.

So we're seeing a few brands who are starting to do that with one-off collections. And I've been talking to a couple of bigger houses about what to do for an entire supply chain. How can they make this an inherent part of the back end in the supply chain as they're creating goods, as they're manufacturing, as they're sourcing? So it's just inherently in their business.

not just a marketing add-on for this one collection launch. So we're starting to see it go a little deeper into the back end of the fashion ecosystem.

Ashley Smith (20:49.574)

Mm-hmm.

Ashley Smith (20:53.138)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. And there's two things I want to get into a little bit there. One is, so on that more back-end side, what would you say, as people are figuring out what that might mean, what's the biggest value-add there? Like, why should companies be thinking specifically about that process part?

michelle (21:16.638)

Again, if it's more in that luxury, scarce space, the verification of your goods has a high value. With counterfeit markets, all those kinds of things, that's the easiest way to combat the authenticity of that. It also creates a lot of efficiencies for a lot of the secondhand reselling applications if you look at the real reels of the world.

Ashley Smith (21:21.479)

Mm-hmm.

Ashley Smith (21:25.307)

Mm-hmm.

michelle (21:41.874)

There's a lot of cost against the authenticating of the products coming in. To have a streamlined solution built into the backend, that's a huge cost saver for them in changing the process of goods coming into the supply chain from day one. If it's for other brands that are less focused on luxury goods and secondary sales,

Ashley Smith (22:02.63)

Mm-hmm.

michelle (22:09.31)

It's about the product provenance, the origin of where these materials are coming from. Whether you're a small, medium or big size brand, they're already recognizing the opportunity to stand out from the current greenwashing of EECOM. Right now, any brand in Web2 can say, this jacket was made from recycled plastic bottles. Was it? I hope it was. You said so. Here's hoping.

Ashley Smith (22:31.13)

Mm-hmm.

michelle (22:36.682)

But with the ability to prove that origin story, a lot of brands are excited to get ahead of that. And it's a really cost-effective way to tell a new story, engage with the consumer. And as they think about Gen Z and even Gen Alpha, they care about that. I think about Web2 was always about where the product is going. It's all about tracking. That was a really big innovation to have Amazon.

You order it at 10 a.m. It's at your house by 4 p.m. That same day tracking, fast delivery, it was all about where it's going. And in Web2, it's all about where it's from. The real flex of the future, in my opinion, is where is it from? Because anyone can create a look. You can get that fake Louis bag. You can look like you've come from somewhere.

Ashley Smith (23:13.074)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

michelle (23:31.862)

where you've really come from, where that piece has originated and what it's made of, I think that's the flex, not the logo, but the actual materials.

Ashley Smith (23:37.83)

Mm-hmm.

Ashley Smith (23:44.554)

Mm hmm. Yeah, that's super interesting. And I think you've actually touched on my second question was about the luxury items and verificational that I think adds a lot to it. For someone who's listening, who is maybe hearing this type of idea for the very first time, I think it still feels very conceptual. So can we maybe just very high level outline what that means? Like you've got a physical good and now there's some sort of...

blockchain authentication. What does that mean? Like how is that without getting too techie? Like, what does that look like?

michelle (24:14.538)

Yes. Yep. Okay. So really easy example. I was in Japan this summer with my two little kids and in Tokyo, some of the world's most exciting, most luxurious secondhand consignment luxury stores. You go in and it is wall to wall Birkenback's. I'm talking not like 10 or 20, but hundreds.

of tan beige sand-colored Birkenbags on one wall, hundreds in red, hundreds in blue, you name it. It's almost a little like a big, it almost becomes like a commodity, like, whoa, all these Birkenbags. You kind of forget for a moment until you walk up and look at the price tag, nope, it's still $50,000 US dollars for this bag. Then you think to yourself, is this real? How is this $50,000?

Ashley Smith (25:02.307)

Yeah.

michelle (25:10.238)

In talking to the sales team, what's your authentication process? Oh, we're known for our standards. I'm like, so it's a trust us policy. Yeah, I'm not cool with that. Anyone. I don't care whether you're Kim Kardashian or someone who's been saving up for 10 years. $50,000 is a significant amount of money to bet on a trust us policy. So here's how this would work.

a blockchain solution in that Hermes Birkin bag. Within that bag, there'd be what's called an NFC. This NFC is like a little tag or chip. It can be fabric, it could be a hard plastic piece, it can be metal pieces. Depending on what it is, it can be very durable, so it can't easily be worn off or cut out, essentially. What it does is it's this piece of technology within the physical product.

that allows anyone to scan and see this verification code and see where this code was implanted from, if it was truly from Omaze themselves, or was it put in by some other account? There's only one Omaze account, if you will, so you can see very quickly, like a website, is this on the Omaze official account or is this something else? Particularly in bags, they all come with this, today, a plastic.

Ashley Smith (26:33.146)

Mm-hmm.

michelle (26:38.462)

credit card looking thing with a number. I don't know anyone who knows what to do with this plastic card. It has a serial code on it. Does anyone know how to look up what that means? And by the way, you can manufacture that plastic card anywhere, anytime. So think of this as a way to put this almost like CIA device that's hidden inside of a physical good that you can scan and see.

Ashley Smith (26:39.934)

Mm-hmm. I don't have any questions.

michelle (27:08.402)

really quickly. Real, not real. And that's it.

Ashley Smith (27:12.026)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And of course, for anyone who's purchasing, thinking about the secondary value, that there's people out there that just buy bags and sell them. So, yes. Yes.

michelle (27:22.93)

Yes, they are. Huge, huge business. If you've been watching to the high profile influencer or celebrity, Bethany Frankel on Instagram and TikTok recently did a whole expose, she went to TJ Maxx, which they now sell a lot of premium goods, and from an official TJ Maxx store purchased a pair of Manolo Blahnik shoes.

And she was sharing them on her socials. Look what I got. I love TJ Maxx. What a score. They retail for 1500 or something. I got them for a few hundred. And people on TikTok were like, uh-uh, they didn't make them in that color. That's not real. And what people have been doing is going to physical stores, buying the real goods, and then they return fake goods. So it is-

Ashley Smith (28:04.873)

Mm.

Ashley Smith (28:14.342)

Wow, that's incredible.

michelle (28:17.63)

It is so sophisticated how these black market industries are operating. It is so overdue to incorporate some kind of verification truth serum into digital, into luxury goods to protect the consumer and to protect the brand themselves.

Ashley Smith (28:24.939)

Mm-hmm.

Ashley Smith (28:31.96)

Mm-hmm.

Ashley Smith (28:36.026)

Yeah, and I will add, just because we're talking primarily about fashion and luxury goods, and I think that's such an interesting and important use case and where I think it's going to probably, you know, people are going to appreciate it maybe earlier on. But I just saw Lowe's hardware is doing something very similar. They have an innovation lab and they are putting in a chip into their power tools that will only be enabled like the

the tool is only operable if it's purchased through the retailer and if somehow it's stolen, which apparently organized theft of these types of things is actually quite common. And then of course, if it's being sold on the secondary market, you can see if it's been purchased legitimately or not. And also there's been mention of, you know, if things have been returned, you can see that.

Maybe it's still the same item, but you can see that it's been returned. So anyways, there's lots of ways this can be done and I think hardware to luxury fashion is an interesting range of use cases. So I just for yeah.

michelle (29:48.366)

Absolutely. I think about this across even the medical industry too, for medicines, for much needed aid that gets sent and sometimes gets intercepted and stolen as countries are reaching out and helping other countries and then placebos are replaced. It is wild, the actual use cases across so many industries. I love that Lowe's are doing that. I did not hear about that yet, so very cool.

Ashley Smith (30:13.338)

Yeah, yeah, fun LinkedIn find. I wonder then, you know, for people who work within companies where they think this is something that they wanna explore, but they have no idea, like, how do I even start? Who do I talk to determine A, what's a good fit? What's a good strategy for us? What's our why, right? And how do, who helps us actually execute?

on some of this stuff because it's probably not in their wheelhouse. I'm sure you've had experience. I mean, it's certainly part of what you do. But maybe you can walk us through that process for companies who are like, Whoa, this is brand new. I want to take it on but where to start?

michelle (30:55.582)

Yeah, there's just not many that are doing it. And it's just the nature of an emerging industry. I think Mavion is one of the few that really are doing that. We focus on the beauty, fashion, lifestyle industries. We've definitely spoken to and helped a few other industries. It's a little harder. You kind of find these one-offs, freelancers or engineers and developers that we can pair and build more custom solutions for.

But it's just, there's no, there's just no easy thing to Google right now and be like, oh, that's the place to go. You know, it does take a little bit of diligence to find the specialist operators like Amavion within your field who have the expertise, who are building it and are actually starting to put real use cases out there. You know, it's unless you are a company that has your own tech team.

Ashley Smith (31:32.898)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

michelle (31:54.738)

you do have to go and find some people outside to bring in. It's going to just take a little bit of time to find who those right people will be. I wish I had a better answer.

Ashley Smith (31:59.954)

Hmm.

Ashley Smith (32:04.258)

Mm-hmm. I do keep think... Yeah, no, for sure. I think... recognizing that challenge is important so people don't feel stupid as they begin to search like what's the starting point and I think especially right now as it's still so nascent like Really finding

those teams or those groups that have some history and vetting. Because I think a lot of people may be capable of doing some of this work, but you have to also make sure they're not bad actors and that they are doing things in the way that you want them to be done. And that way, it doesn't negatively impact your brand. Yeah. You, yeah, go ahead.

michelle (32:43.963)

Well, there's also the challenge too of not even knowing what you're asking for. You know you delivered this kind of product or service. You know that there's got to be a better way or there's something cool you want to do. And so finding a trusted forum to talk to, to ideate and then build the plan, that can be a challenge too. So even knowing what to ask for, I can appreciate, can feel really daunting in itself.

Ashley Smith (32:51.242)

Mm-hmm.

Ashley Smith (33:13.15)

So let's lean in a little bit into your niche with fashion. And if someone's interested in watching, at least just watching what the opportunities might look like, are there resources or people? Is there anything you follow to kind of try to stay on the pulse, besides of course your day-to-day work and the people you're speaking to? But is there anywhere you may refer to for people who are trying to learn more?

michelle (33:40.93)

That's a great question. I actually found that the answer was no. That's honestly why I started my own podcast this year because I realized I was spending my days on Zoom talking to the world's most innovative founders, leaders, CEOs across all industries who were leaning in and doing this and taking the time. I thought I shouldn't just have these conversations and learnings live in my head in this one Zoom call that needs to be shared.

So I launched What Now in, gosh, March of this year, and I've spoken with everyone from the Los Angeles Rams, the NFL team, to Time Magazine or Time, Christie's, Aloe Yoga, a 17-time Grammy-winning music engineer who does all of the amazing work for like Lizzo, John Legend, Skrillex, Beyonce, Alicia Keys, like you name it.

And you realize actually how pervasive this technology is for those who are pushing the line as far and as fast as they can. So there's a lot of great ideas being shared on each episode. So you can see, I mean, even my last one was with Chris Jenner's company, Safely, which is a cleaning suppliers company. And you're like, what on earth could a, you know, a multipurpose spray?

do with anything in blockchain. We talk about it. We actually ended up doing a bit of a jam session in the podcast episode itself on, well, what should we do? It came up with a few ideas. Start there, have a listen, see what dots are connected and where you feel inspired, which industry is more aligned to your own industry as a listener. But yeah, I don't think there are a ton of tools. It feels very ad hoc.

There are weeks where I'm like, oh my God, there's so much great information being shared on LinkedIn. And then I'll dive into Twitter and be like, oh, there's a couple of good little nuggets here still being shared. And then I'll go to some Web3 summits and be like, yes, okay. What's hard is the expertise is being shared by people that you've probably never heard of before yet. And Ashley, as you just said, vetting who are the good actors versus those who are not.

Ashley Smith (35:37.714)

Mm-hmm.

michelle (36:06.47)

you know, it's going to take legwork for you to do on your own. And look at their credentials, look where they're speaking, look who they've worked with, see how they work and, you know, what the quality of their work has really done, what's their network, and that's going to just take a little bit of time to do. Yeah.

Ashley Smith (36:28.422)

Yeah, no, I appreciate that. That was perfect. So I was going to segue into your podcast. So I am going to put a link in the show notes so everyone can find the What Now podcast by Michelle Reeves. It's got some great episodes there, as you mentioned. So one to follow. I really appreciate you serving the public in that way because I think that's clearly as well, I feel a lot of people are

first of all, not willing to commit the time to say digging through Twitter, which I can appreciate. People got things to do in life. So, you know, before we wrap up, I'd love to know a little bit just what are you most excited about? I know that's a simple question, but whether it's something in fashion and AR, VR, in the metaverse, in blockchain or AI, what in terms of digital transformation are you most excited to either participate in or watch?

michelle (37:24.202)

Okay, I got to tell this story because it just happened this week and I feel like I want to go on a publicity train for this woman. She's so talented. So there is a fashion AI artist, her name is Opei, and she prior to becoming an AI artist was a stylist for some US retail stores. And during the pandemic, retail stores of course shut down, she didn't have much to do so she kind of taught herself AR, VR.

AI within the fashion space. Now prior to doing this her job was to go on set sometimes and she had one role as a stylist pull some key looks and that was kind of it because when you're on set in fashion there's someone who's doing nails, someone who's doing eyebrows, someone who's doing makeup, hair, then you've got the photographer, then you've got the agency, then you've got the creative brief, then you've got the location scout, then you've got the person who's actually casting the talent and the models.

And on a 12 person set as a stylist, you know, she's like, I pulled these looks with one vision in mind. It never looked the way that I had it in my head because you've got 12 layers of people that it goes through and changes. Well, with the power of AI now, she has created the most captivating output of campaigns because she does 12 people's job in one. She is one person doing all those things.

And in speaking with her, that vision was always there, but she never had the ability to unleash it. And now she can. It is just her and her vision coming to the page or the screen in the makeup, in the casting, in the location, in the actual fashion. She is the designer, the photographer, the talent scout. She's everything. And it is blowing my mind what has been locked inside of her and now she's able to share it. So I think about

Ashley Smith (38:59.175)

Mm-hmm.

michelle (39:22.454)

You know, OPE is one of the millions of people out there who I'm sure feel the same way. We've all got these visions of what we wish we could create. I am so absolutely excited for the visions that we are going to be hit with in fashion in pretty much every industry because we're taking the shackles off of people and we're taking them out of the boxes that traditional roles had put us in.

No, no, your job is just this. Just deliver this. We do this and now you can do it all. So go for it and like, let it flow.

Ashley Smith (39:51.834)

Mm-hmm.

Ashley Smith (39:57.156)

Mm-hmm.

Ashley Smith (40:00.514)

Awesome, I love that. I think people have a lot to learn from you, so if they want to follow you, learn more, learn more about Mavion, what are the best places for them to find you? I'll make sure to put links in the show notes.

michelle (40:15.214)

Well, thank you. I'm old school. I'm an Instagram girl. So at Michelle J Reeves, and of course, LinkedIn, Michelle Reeves on LinkedIn, and then just good old fashioned website, michellejreeves.com.

Ashley Smith (40:19.371)

Mm-hmm.

Ashley Smith (40:28.826)

It's a really great website by the way. And I see there like if people want to speak to you about speaking engagements, all of that's there. So I do implore people who are wanting to know more and speak to Michelle to check that out because there's lots of resources there. Michelle, before we close, any closing thoughts, anything we didn't touch on that you're thinking of that we should talk about quickly?

michelle (40:50.766)

Ashley, I love that you are breaking open the space. These are those important conversations. I get to see you at industry events, but I think opportunities to open the windows and let people look in, come in, are really important. I think for anyone who's listening, remain curious.

You've obviously, if you've come this far in this episode, you're here because you want to learn more, which tells me that you are capable of doing more as well. So do not be sidetracked by the obstacle of the unknown. Just keep leaning in, keep listening to Ashley's podcast, listen to other podcasts, connect the dots on your terms.

you'll find your path. You'll build your path and I promise when you do, it is going to feel so flipping great because you'll have discovered and created something that is brand new that others have not experienced before. So just keep at it.

Ashley Smith (41:53.05)

Wonderful. What a great message to leave on. Thank you so much, Michelle. It's been Awesome getting to reconnect with you and hear more about what you're looking at everyone in the audience. Thank you for joining us We'll see you again next week from the blockchain Here no, there we go