46: From Olympic Gold to Consulting Firm Founder with Adrian Moorhouse

What does it take to build a consulting firm that lasts 25 years and successfully exits to a Big Four firm?

Adrian Moorhouse, Olympic gold medallist and former world number one swimmer, shares the story of how he transitioned from elite sport to building Lane4, one of the UK’s most respected leadership development consultancies. After retiring from swimming, Moorhouse moved into talent development in British Swimming before co-founding Lane4 in 1995 with academics and a sales partner, applying principles from sport—such as improving inputs to drive better outputs—to leadership development and consulting.

Over the next 25 years, Lane4 grew into a multi-million-pound consultancy before joining EY in 2021. In this conversation, Adrian explains the strategic choices that shaped that journey: building a team with distinct roles for sales, delivery, and account management; overcoming growth plateaus; and navigating the realities of selling a consulting firm. He also reflects on leadership, learning, and the mindset shift required to move from individual performance to leading a team-based business.

In this episode you will learn

• How Adrian Moorhouse transitioned from Olympic athlete to consulting entrepreneur
• Why separating sales, delivery, and account management can unlock consultancy growth
• The importance of “better inputs lead to better outputs” in building consulting capability
• How Lane4 broke through a revenue plateau by redesigning roles and investing in new business development
• Why understanding the difference between the customer and the consumer matters in consulting
• What founders should expect when selling a consulting firm and navigating an earn-out
• How leadership mindset shifts from individual performance to building a high-performing team

Connect with Adrian:

LinkedIn: Adrian Moorhouse

Prof. Joe O'Mahoney helps boutique consultancies scale and exit. 

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Visit Joe’s Website:
https://www.equitysherpa.com

Transcript

Welcome And Adrian’s Backstory;

Joe 0:00

Welcome to the Consulting Growth Podcast. I'm Professor Joe O'Mani, CEO of Equity Sherpa. We help owners of consultancies quadruple the equity value of their firms over a two to four year period. If you'd like to know how we do this, visit equitySherpa.com. Okay, welcome back to the Consulting Growth Podcast. I have the real pleasure here to be interviewing someone that you might know for several reasons, but um I we're joined by Adrian Moorehouse.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

So Adrian, welcome to the podcast. Thanks, Joe. It's good to be here actually. Looking forward to it. I've been obviously keeping tabs on your what you've been doing and your what you're writing and the work. So yeah, quite looking forward to being uh grilled.

Joe 0:43

Well, I think both you and I probably have too many fingers in too many pies. Um and uh as we chatted about prior to this, it's hard to do everything well if you're doing too much, isn't it? Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Yeah, and I've had myself doing quite a lot, yeah.

Joe 0:57

So so um Adrian, um, you know, man many of the listeners will will know you from the Olympic days, and many will know you from the um from your consultancy role at uh lane four. Um but do you want to give us a brief overview of how you transitioned from from an Olympic leader, if you like, to a to a business leader? I guess it's a question you've been asked a lot, so sorry to rehearse it again.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

No, no, but that's fine because I think that in the context of business, I think it's quite a useful one because um, yeah, my sub the three Olympic games. I was 28 when I retired from swimming. So I was um more mature, let's say, rather than a child, a child coming into Somerset. Um a couple of key pieces back as a backdrop. My father was a company director, and when he was actually about 50 or so, left that business to set his own business up from our kitchen table type thing, uh stair room. And I was a teenager and my brother, I've got one brother, and we were both teenagers, and we watched him do this and we had that family conversation around the kitchen table, which said, look, if this goes well, it'll be great. If it doesn't, we're gonna sell the house, sort of thing. And so we were kind of vested as a family in his business world. Um and he was a wool merchant. So we I'm from Bradford, and he was a sort of trader, you know, he'd buy the wool from import of New Zealand or wherever and then sell it on. So he's, you know, had to mark up, mark up some a ton of wool and then make some money out of it. So that's interesting information. So I became a swimmer, retired from swimming, um, and was looking for a job, which is kind of, you know, I then the first thing I did was sack my agent because I realized that having an agent was gonna tie me to my past

From Olympian To Talent Development;

SPEAKER_00 2:40

and wouldn't help me be free for the future. So um, because all the agents want you to do is talk about who you used to be rather than who you could. So I wanted to be somebody new. Um so I was looking for work. Um the head of swimming, the director of swimming at the time was a good friend of mine because we I'd grown up through swimming, and he was saying, What are you gonna do next? And we were chatting about different things. And I said, I didn't want to be a swimming coach because you know, spent so many time in pools, I don't really want to be on public size basically. Um but he we we talked about talent development actually because the the pathways in swimming, I'd always been quite observant, critical, talking to him about how we burnt kids out, and and he said, look, you've always been quite vocal about it. How about you get involved in talent development? So this is before it was really organized. And so he gave me a job, created a job for me, which was head of talent development for British swimming. Um, so I had to sort of work with the coaches, create a strategy for it, get funding for it, influence the coaches and try and draw this program together to sort of look at how we educated rather than just flog the kids in swimming pools. So I was very I was a big fan of better inputs leading to better outputs. So, you know, if you get good nutrition, I'd buy it, psychology, physiology, biomechanics, all those things that come together. And of course, so talented people have not got access to that. So I was looking at access. So my whole world was talent development for four years.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

And that's the easy link, if you like, that's the transition into business. Because, and then I met the guys at Loughborough University, Graham Jones and Austin Swain, who were working in business. So they were doing some sports psychologists, head of department, Graham, and doing work in business for 3M, who's phoned the university and said, Look, um, like the sports metaphor, but what do you do with because we've got some bunch of VPs with big targets, lots of pressure, need to work in a team. So, how would a sports psychologist approach that? You know, innovative, very innovative thinking from 3M, right? So I met Graham, I wanted him to work on my swimming program, but he talked in, we were in the bar and we're just chatting about business and what he was doing in the business. I went, that's really good. That's really sounds really good. Because what you're doing is not doing the rent a hero stuff. You're actually giving people tools to work with in the same way I learned my tools as a swimmer. So um, and I met the guy at 3M who ran that division um with Greg. So what can I meet him? And we did, and then got this guy called David Cook, um, who mentored me for a long time after that, said to me, He said, Look, these guys are brilliant. Um, I can get a year of consultancy from these guys for the cost of an hour for you to do a rah-rah speech. Wow. He said, So I'm going to I'm going to go there every time. He said, But it's a great business, and I think you should you should help them get a business set up. So that was it, really. So that was a trigger. And and so I had a mate who was a sales director. Um, we were chatting about it, and in the end, we all decided to leave our jobs and quite lane full.

Joe 5:32

And how many how many of you were there?

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Well, Graham, Austin decided to stay in academia for a little bit longer. Um Graham had half foot in the foot out, a bit of a university, a bit of business for a while. So there were three there were three, four of us in the beginning. Um yeah, so that was the start of it in 1995. But what I think was on my reflection, what I think was really interesting was that, and that you know, that we all took, we know consulting, right? You and I. So what

Founding Lane4 And Early Model;

SPEAKER_00 6:00

was fascinating was Adrian, the other guy called Adrian Hutchinson was my sales friend. So he was a sales guy, and we had Graham, the professor, and me learning at my craft to be a consultant, and Austin, who was sort of uh freelancing still. Um, but we so we had a salesperson selling the consultancy in right at the beginning. And so we almost like two of two of two of us would do the work for three salaries, which was I've always thought about that when I talk to people about how you get to mark go to market and how that sort of feast and famine and consultancy. We from the very beginning, we had somebody whose job was to just create relationships, open doors, and then start to get people to be interested in what we did, and then of course they gray them in through the so yeah, so that was the we it was a small group of us, but one person who actually just sort of didn't do any consultancy.

Joe 6:52

And and how long did it take you to go from founding to you exited to EY, didn't you?

SPEAKER_00 7:01

Yeah, we exited in 21, was it? Yeah, 2021. So I mean it was a good 25-year journey.

Joe 7:08

Okay. Yeah okay. And when you started, were you did you think you would sell, or were you just starting it to make a bit of cash on the side, or what was the did you have a vision at the time?

SPEAKER_00 7:21

Um no, but we worked with David Cook, the the 3M, the chap at 3M, who did some facilitators through strategy, facilitators through vision setting and you know, breaking it down, all that stuff. So and we had our aspirational targets, and you know, like everybody knows you reach the start, and you think you're gonna make loads of money. But um so I wanted to grow something, it was never gonna be on the side because interestingly, my dad, when he set his business up in his 50s, that was more of a lifestyle business. He never grew it beyond what he and my mum and a couple others could do. So it was almost like carried on working from home. So he wanted a lifestyle business at that age. I was 30 and I remember talking to the other guy. I said, I want an entity, I wanted to create a business that's got legs, sustainability, and keeps on going. And so it was all about building a business, a real strong business with front front office, back office. And and so, but the intention wasn't to sell it, the intention was to grow it and be really good because that was my world. In my world, I come from a world where you put a lot of effort in, yes, you build something and you get reward and that whatever that is. So it was going to be my job, it was my career. I I wanted to just do that like I was a swimmer before. I was going to be a leader of an HR consultancy. Um, it took me a while to sort of accept that I'd made that transition, actually. Yeah. Okay. Um but but no, the we never intended to sell it. We wanted to be the biggest and best independent. Um, but then things changed.

Joe 8:52

Right. Okay, so so you know, I guess this follows your philosophy of, you know, better inputs equal better outputs. And so if you're if if if you're aiming to build something that's good and you know, you you you're doing great work and you're running a good business, it's it's going to be valuable down the line.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

Yeah, and we and we knew that. I think talking to David, he said, like, if you get build up that a lot of it is about revenue growth. We look at that sort of a in the vanity space, I think. So look, how can we grow revenue? But recognizing that then obviously make making a the ship run well so you can get a profit was a set sort of second bit. Okay, it was a fast following it very early on. But um, it was quite it was quite interesting about building a business that that had the right inputs. Because obviously, as an ex-swimmer, I've got these two professor, professor of psychology and a doctor of psychology, who are the who are the product really. They're the guys that have got the content, the expertise that is being bought by their client. Yeah. I'm learning to do that from them because I really wanted to understand how to do that well. Um, but I'm also I became the sort of de facto leader because of my personality straddled the two different personality types of like Graham and if the deep professor of psychology. Yep, yeah, and Adrian, who without stereotyping, was a sales guy and maybe maybe a little bit shallow, but but not. But just I mean, that sort of person, extrovert, introvert, and midway between. So I was always going to try and be the person that ran the business. And they both said to me, look, you've got to run it because you're the best to map navigators. And so then I treated it like I was a swimmer. Then I treated it the same way. I was like, okay, well, when I was a swimmer, I would have like a nutritionist, a psychologist, a biomechanic, a physio, da da. What's the version in business? Well, okay, good accountant, good accountant, good um IT of support, good HR support. I went to um Business Link when they were the business link was around in the old days. Yeah. So I went to our local Yeah, Business Link in Reading, and they gave a grant and they gave us a guy that would help us with our strategy. So I was not, I was totally open to getting advice and getting really good inputs from people, recognizing that I was the aggregator of that. I was never going to be the specialist at anything. And I think that also helped John because I think that I'd never done any of the jobs before. So the only thing I could do was to help those guys be good at what they did.

Joe 11:15

Right. Okay. Okay. And but I I'm guessing as you grew, you required, you know, uh, you know, uh on top of the the skills that you developed uh from a from a swimming background

Building A Real Business Engine;

Joe 11:30

and from a, I guess, you know, picked up from the coaching side of things and your philosophy. What really, or was there anything that really challenged you personally? Because obviously as a managing director, whilst you can outsource, you know, a a fair bit and should outsource a fair bit, was there anything that you needed to develop that you struggled with or that you needed to work on?

SPEAKER_00 11:56

I I think really understanding the the how the balance sheet and the PL worked. I mean, really understanding cash and yeah, I mean, that's huge. I mean and I and did I struggle? I'm I'm numerate and I you know I math A level right. So but so I'm I'm sorry, so I do understand it, but trying to understand it in terms of the levers that you pull and how you invest in a business, grow a business. I and I did um again, I was a learner, I'm a learner. I went to the IOD and did finance for non-financial directors and I did all sorts of programs like mini learning sessions. I'm a real big fan of applied learning. So I really needed to find stuff that worked for me. You know, because I mean in the old days, you know, when I was a swimmer, when they made us learn about nutrition, I'm going, well, why? Will that help me swim faster? And they go, Well, yeah, it will. Okay, I'll do it then. So therefore, so therefore, for me, will this thing help me do better? So finance and really understand the dynamics of that because I think in consulting you you see all sorts of pitfalls around managing the the money, in fact, frankly. And I think understanding where you need to invest and yeah, so that was kind of a biggie. Um account management, and I know you've written a piece on this recently. I I or you've we've we've done talks you've talked a bit about account management. I think that this idea of understanding the difference between the customer and the consumer, that that was huge for me and for Lane Forward, just really starting to get to grips with what you offer to a group of people, particularly on our world. You know, we we touch on the L and D, right? So we did we get trade training people and we've got L and D buyers, but actually you've got delegates that might think you're great, but then you've got to look after the buyer as well, the person that signs the check. So that sort of difference between consumer and customer was huge for me.

Joe 13:43

Yeah, okay, okay. And and what what inflection points did the company hit or did it hit them at all where it it you needed to change what what you were?

SPEAKER_00 13:56

Yeah, that that's a great question from experience. Um yeah, and that we we hit about six million, five, six million um 2012. And we were bumped, we did three years, six, six point two, six nine. We couldn't break through that. We've had the nice growth. It was a couple of things before that, by the way. We hit the financial crisis of 2008, 2009 was a bit of a challenging time. Uh it was a really challenging time. We had to let two or three people go. Um, but then making through into 2012, we were bumping along the same sort of number. And it was almost like, well, why are we why can't we break through this point? Um, and I think it was this piece where you've got people who love you, the clients, and they repeat by, and you've got um yeah, a good reputation, you're doing good work, and they keep on coming back to you. But that new client breaking through the new clients as well, yep, and then keep on growing and farming. So sort of hunting and farming, isn't it? This sort of how do you split that activity and get the right people doing the job? So we yeah, 2012, we put in an account management system. But so we basically did all the people that were brilliant, but were brilliant with the buyer, yeah. So people who are very good with the the end user, um, the different skill set. And so we found that we had to try not to get the consultant to do everything, but that was quite interesting actually. So we invested, we took us a big investment, it was a couple hundred thousand probably. Um, and we had to help people get into roles that were because a lot of people like to do multiple roles, like liked a bit of this, a bit of that. We said, no, no, if you're really strong at that role, particularly client account management, account looking after the client, we need you to do that more. We reduce your billing time. Yeah, if you're really good at delivering, and then just really enjoy that and we'll increase that, and then we'll create a new business team with a marketing budget. Um, and so that in one year went from six to nine million. We've huge. Yeah, it was a huge so that inflection point you talk that we yeah, we're bumping along, and we it was like um we took a hit in the six months because of the way the accounts were reported. Yeah, in six months, that investment um we went down for a bit for about four or five months, but then having holding the nerve and realizing it was going to work in the end. Um so that was a big one actually, because a lot of people were worried about that and nervous about reducing billing and putting people into different roles. But the whole principle was about new brip new business and marketing and then account management.

Joe 16:20

Right. Right. And it'll be worked almost immediately. Yeah, it did. It was it was it was six months of um nervousness.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

Yeah, yeah.

Learning Finance And Account Management;

SPEAKER_00 16:30

Because you put a lot of investment into it and it didn't, it took time for it to pay off. Yeah. Um, but there was something about holding the nerve and seeing the pipeline growing and seeing the account, the current accounts growing as well. So yeah.

Joe 16:42

And what's my go on thing?

SPEAKER_00 16:44

No, I think we're still predicated by and do good doing good work as well, by the way. So you we can talk I've got a real and that's I think my interesting, healthy balance between the the great consultants and the and the sort of the business of consulting, which is you've still got to do the great work, you've got to be really good, you've got to deliver what the client needs, as well as thinking about how you're gonna grow your business. But the two you can't do one without the other because ultimately if you're doing average or you're doing because you've taken too much work on, it's not the quality slips, you've still got to maintain the quality. But because we had a team of people really looking after the delivery, they were they were fascinated. So basically it was delivery people wanted to do great quality work. That was where they got out of bed, and then you've got the account guys getting out of work because they just wanted to grow the client. And so those two things meeting.

Joe 17:32

Did did you struggle with finding people who could do new business development? Because it is it it's quite um it's quite an unusual set of skills that not everyone is suited to, and it's hard to buy in as well.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

No, it's a good qu and then again a good question. Um because as well, the the buyer, the person in the person the client wants to meet often the person that's going to be doing the work, right? So that new business piece, it's what I figured was it was a bit about um if the if it takes three or four meetings to get to a settle, to get to a client to give you some of the contract. If somebody can take the first one or two meetings, that gives you that builds, you you can be more busy doing consulting. So it's just somebody to sort of feel the first two meetings and evangelizing about the business we used to talk about. It's just going in, talking it, but then really going really quickly with yes, I can bring any drinks in or I can bring Graham in early on. Um that sort of character we because of our background, we found ex-athletes who were really yeah, who maybe haven't maybe hadn't sold before, who were kind of in the like the target like the used like performing, they're like they have fun groups, and they're also proactive, like to go.

Joe 18:49

I tell you what, I've never heard that angle before. I've been in this game for a long time. That's maybe that's what what uh you know we've been missing. That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

But but also we found team players as well, and we never did individual bonuses. Never. Yeah, okay. So it's all team, you're you're in it for uh everyone's in it together. So then you know, success has many fathers, and so in our world, and so like knowing you can't say, oh, that person did that better than you. So therefore we said, look, no matter what, this whole thing is gonna be budgeted against us, the bonus is gonna be equal. So we all put the work in because we all want results. So that was quite interesting. So we found people who, as I say, the sports people who maybe but liked working in a team, like we had ex-hockey players and people who wanted to do that, but not just that, by the way, Joe. I think we had other people, but the characteristics was team playing, persistent, like a target. Never did cold calling. There's no cold. So we did everything that's all about relationship and nurturing relationships and picking up on people that moved to other clients.

Joe 19:47

Okay, great, great. And and I think I I I like the two specific things you mentioned. One is you know, having that salesperson, but getting the delivery people in early. I think that reduces the risk of what you get often, which is sales throwing something over the parapet and and it's not being suitable or not being scoped right or being sold at the wrong price. Um, I'm also a fan of of your take on bonuses, sort of individual bonuses versus team bonuses. Um I I I have seen individual bonuses work very well, but it does tend to create a more competitive and sometimes um friction within within the senior team

Stuck At Six Million And Breakthrough;

Joe 20:30

as well.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

Yeah, no, yeah, no, you're right. I think that interesting, we talked right at the beginning. You sort of we talked about my past careers and leader. I was never really a leader in the sport apart from my sports job when I did the talent. So in sport, I was looking after myself. I wanted to win the race for myself, whereas in business, and that was a big shift. We talked about the transition, so becoming, if you like, other-centered rather than self-centered. Yeah. So as a swimmer, I'd grown up, and that's a different story about how that happens. Yes, yes. Shaking that off and realizing actually, if I was going to be successful in this, it is absolutely a team game. And I became, I tried to model my old swimming coach rather than me the swimmer. So and that's a big that's a biggie. When I looked at what he did for the athlete, I went, you know what, his behaviour, how he got the very best out of 20 kids. Yes, that's what I need to do in business. I don't need to just look after myself. And so that's sort of dawning moment, probably in a couple of yeah, we were two years into lane four. Um, I kind of realized I also got a bit of feedback from from good friends. And it's like, you know, Adrian, you can't do this by yourself. This is this is it. And so that really, I think helped a lot with the the whole principle of lane fall.

Joe 21:42

Right, right. You're you're very self, and we talked about this before the call, actually. You mentioned self reflection. It's it I've noticed a few times you've you you've all either sought feedback or have noticed something isn't working and then acted on it. Um, and sometimes through the advice of others. Seeking out mentoring opportunities.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

Yeah, no, I mean, I think is it in my personality? I did I was it trained through being a sports person? I think there's got to be a bit of I think it's my my parents. My dad, my dad was a huge mentor for me. Um and his humility and recognising that you never get anything done. You've got to put effort in yourself, but you're gonna have to work with other people and just never get, you know, keep your feet on the ground, lad. I'm from Bradford, right? Keep your feet on the ground, keep your feet on the ground, lad. You know, don't get above me. So there's something about um recognizing that you don't have all the answers. Actually, I I also hit a plateau in my sporting career when I was about 20 because I was trying to do it all myself. And that was a dawning moment for me when I realized that when you get to that level, I mean I made the Olympics, my first Olympics and I came fourth. Um, but I realized that at that level, you have to play the team game, you have to really start to understand where you need that feedback and so and get advice and just because it it's a very different game when you top five in the world sort of thing. So I think that really sort of helped me move in a to a different place, away from self-centered to more understanding the way other people make a difference. Um and so yeah, and I've always been, I don't know, I've always wanted to learn how to be better because you know nobody ever starts off the finished article, everybody learns either from experience or from a piece of mentoring or feedback, or you know, there's many ways of learning, isn't there? Um and yeah, so I've always been keen to that. Yeah.

Joe 23:41

And and and moving to to more recent times, how large were you when um you you decided to exit and and how how did that process work? Did you go did you run an exit process or were you approached? How what what what happened there?

SPEAKER_00 24:02

Yeah, so we weren't looking to exit, so we didn't run a process at all. Um and we started partnering with the big four because we found that one of our strategies was to find a bigger player to piggyback and to go in as a resource that would help them. So we started with KPMG a long time, well, quite a while ago, and we did some work with the civil service on one of our big contracts. Um and they were asking about us joining them. And then we said no, and then we just we carried on being a partner of theirs. And then we partnered with EY on a big Met Police piece of work in London. Um, and before COVID, this was a you know, have you thought about joining us? Can we talk about maybe coming in? No, no, we're not doing that. And then and then COVID hit, of course. It was almost like the real hard yards happened then. And so for all and for all of us, I mean particularly, you know, a lot of our work was face to face. And so we took a it was a we were about a 50% revenue hit. Wow, okay. Yeah, so it's a big one. And we were up in the 20s in million, 25 for 24 million. And so, but we but like lots of other organizations, when it came through, the signs of recovery were pretty strong. So we actually had a strong recovery rate, and it looked like we were going to bounce back to 18 million within a year. And so, but we came out of that, and we were all a bit knackers, actually, like a lot of people, I think. And the EY, but the EY contract was still going, and you know, we saw shut signs, and then we also the other couple of things, we were doing a lot more online, um, obviously, and digital virtual stuff and self-serve diagnostics, and we needed a bit of investment in a tech platform, really. Probably probably need about a million quid of the tech investment. So we went and then we thought, where do we get that? So we were looking at private equity and we were thinking about should we do some get some investment? And then, but we we'd worked with other companies that have been burnt a little bit by private equity and they're finding it quite hard. Yeah, um and then UI came to say, look, maybe the time is right

New Business, Team Bonuses, Hiring Profiles;

SPEAKER_00 26:00

now for UI come and join us. And by the way, you four, there were four of us that are in the business at the time, you four can become equity partners. And right, yeah, do you know what I mean? So that and then there was also, and this is how it would look, and here's what we could do, and you could, you know, we need the entrepreneurial spirit, and you we can plug you in here and da-da-da. And so it was a we were rude, we knew them over time, and we liked that, we liked the team, the people consulting team that we were joining, were good people, we were nice people, and um so yeah, that's so that's we kind of went into it slightly reluctantly at first, but then went through the process and and it went, yeah, and it was a it was a good deal. I think we felt we were we were as a strong piece, and it felt for us like we were joining, it was almost like if you've got to climb the mountain again, you've got put your somebody's got their arms around your shoulders, sort of thing. Yeah, and so I think that was interesting, and also because um it was a three-year earnout, and for all three of us out of the four, would be 60 in three years' time. We were all 57. And so it was almost like, okay, that's interesting. So the three will coincide with us being 60, and that's and here's a a chance to realize some capital value in the company. So all sorts of things, not these personal situations for a few of us that meant this was the time, the time to do it. Um so we did it.

Joe 27:15

Okay, okay, and and uh it's great the the deal went well and the earnout went well. Is there anything that you would I'm sure there is, but what what are the things that you would advise others in your position to do or think about during the exit and earnout period that either perhaps you found to be important or that you wish you'd known earlier?

SPEAKER_00 27:45

It's a good one. And yeah, because there's lots of lots of confidential bits in this. Yeah, sure, yeah. Yeah, and you know you know that. I know you know that. Um I think you've got to be if you want to realise capital value out of the investment in your investment in your consulting business, there's a price to pay. You'll get some money for it, but there's a price to pay. You've got to work out whether you're able to manage that. And um and not kid yourself. There's a lot of about what it might be like because there's a rose-tinted piece of let lenners that comes with the story that's been told. And so just be really careful to investigate what that means. And actually, I think I it helped me a lot because I faced into it in the in the when I decided we're gonna sell it, I faced into a lot of the if like the mourning period, the the the sort of what does that mean to let go of something? And so when I was in there, I didn't feel like they were messing with my baby, as it were, because it was I let go. And so I think that a lot of people you you've got to let go.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

It's not your company anymore, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:49

And I think people want to think they can influence it and do whatever you can't. And so if you're prepared to trade off, that's the trade-off. But as we know, there are many ways of taking money out of the business. That's a trade sale, trade sale is one of the private equity, and there's many ways of doing it. Um, and that one suited us at the time. Now, I would I would consider all options if I was exit, trying to exit my business. Um, and I never, I'm one of these people that also realized and I never look back and regret stuff because I always go, you know what? With the information I had at the time, the context I was sitting in, I made that decision. I still have to stand by that. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Yeah, would I have done something differently? Well, you know what? I didn't have that. I couldn't look into the future. I had what I had at the time, and I made that decision based on the context at the time. And that therefore it was the right one to make at that time. Um also my decision to leave last year was the right one to make at that time.

Joe 29:46

Yeah, okay. Okay, and that was after the earnout, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

Yeah, and also, well, I mean, that as people probably aware now, if you're in the consulting world, that EY went through a phase of trying to float off its consulting business. I don't know if you remember, something called Project Everest. So you've got this business, so lane four being bought by EY, and within one year, so we've got our feet under table, but within one year it announces it's going to do the Everest IPO. I'll try and float the consulting business. So all bets are off in terms of the investment in lane four. It's all about gearing the business up to float. And so a lot of distraction, a lot of the things that we could have done were sort of put on hold. And so, therefore, the landscape as a partner in EY at that time was very well volatile in lots of ways. Because different people thinking about different things, different pay attention being paid. So um when it came, because I was hopeful to get find something different to do in consulting in a bigger, big organization, and I did some great work. I I actually did some projects, some big good projects. And yet when it came to the end, when they said, Look, you're 60, the earner actually also you have to retire as an equity partner at 60 in the big four or in white. And so, would you like to take a retirement? I went,

Letting Go Of Ego And Leading Teams;

SPEAKER_00 31:00

absolutely. I'm now ready to go. See you later. So, but yeah, I haven't retired twice in my life. It's quite funny. Yeah, yeah. But they think I retired. I I haven't retired. This is this is a label they put on it.

Joe 31:12

Yes, of course. And and uh and what's keeping you busy now? You you mentioned before we started um a few projects you were involved with. What's um what's top of mind at the moment?

SPEAKER_00 31:24

Well, there's two two two things really. So I I've gone back into a smaller consultancy, a company called Fieri, which is a bit light lane for it's a it's a a lot, there's only about 25 people in it. So I'm mentoring and helping those guys think about growing their business. But as a chairman, sort of on the inside, if you like, putting some of these lessons we talked about. And I in fact I pointed them to one of your um podcasts and whatever your. Yeah, so always tell always learning. So helping those guys grow their business in Fieri. Um, it's a leadership business. I'm doing some of my work through there as well. So it's like nice to have a home to actually do my own consulting through. Yeah. And um I'm also working with a private equity firm called AMA Capital, um, looking at their portfolio companies. Well, when they're investing in businesses, can I support the top team through that change as they come into the deal, as they come and then get the investment? And then obviously the pressure comes on. So, how can I work with the top team to think about how they manage that, manage the investment and stay sane, as it were? So, I'm working with them on the inside of uh businesses that they're working with. I've got a couple at the moment. Um, but that also helps me think with them about other things we could do in terms of investments in an investor as well. So that's quite interesting, having not gone that route with the what with Lane 4, but actually now to go to that place and be an advisor to those guys um with Amor. I'm really enjoying that.

Joe 32:53

Um I think your um your philosophy of uh inputs and outputs, good inputs equals good outputs is is a great one that isn't isn't common in private equity when they're dealing with people businesses. So if you found a good home there of PE that you know appreciate it's not all about just you know selling more um and you know sort of whipping the sales team, uh I think that that's fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

Yeah, yeah. No, and it's it but the one I'm in at the moment is in the motor business. It's nothing to do with it. It's an interesting thing. Oh, right, okay. But but all people, all businesses are people businesses, are there that maintainers. So so that's quite exciting. I'm also I'm also chairman of a local trust in Windsor and Maidenhead where I live that runs leisure facilities. So um, and that's that that's pretty cool. I really enjoyed that because you know families around here now, and just making sure that those guys think about how they offer to the community, you know, leisure facilities, but also um support. Yeah.

Joe 33:54

That's great. That's great. Giving back as well. That's uh yeah, that's that's really positive. Um good. Adrian, thanks so much for your time. It's been absolutely fascinating talking to you and congratulations on on the successes with lane four. Um yeah, um, real, real pleasure talking to you. Yeah, thanks, Joe. It's good to chat through it. Thank you. Cheerio.

SPEAKER_00 34:17

Yeah, good.