C Section Births - Do Parents Pick A Destiny?

What happens when your doctor offers multiple C‑section dates—and you’re astrologically aware that each Moon Sign and Rising Sign suggests a possible 'karma' for your child?

 Is picking a C- Section date “playing God,” or is it mindful stewardship? Can a 48‑hour window meaningfully alter a soul’s experience, or does consciousness—attention and intention—do the heavier lifting?

In this episode we step straight into that high‑stakes crossroads, unpacking  the emotional wiring of astrological factors of family dynamics, and the lived reality that a child’s birth chart is also an ' EVENT CHART' for the parents. 

With a real case in hand, we explore the tug between Sign Elemental harmony and growth‑provoking tension, and how Squares can ignite character while Trines smooth the path. We examine how Moon Sign and Moon Phases, Decans and Fixed Stars all inform the possibilities in a newborn babies character traits and life unfoldment.

By the end, you’ll have a grounded way to think about Electional choices for birth: balancing medical prudence with symbolic clarity, respecting seasonal context and relational fit with the parents’ charts. 

Whether you’re expecting, advising clients, or simply fascinated by the intersection of astrology, ethics, and family karma, this conversation offers tools, cautions, and perspective for choosing wisely when timing is on the table.

 If this resonated, please subscribe and share with a friend who loves Astrology, and leave a review to help others find the show.

*** To contact our guest Robert Meissner for his  Professional Astrology & Tarot Sessions: Robertmeissner65@gmail.com

Find out about YOUR important chart placements !

~Alexander can be contacted for Consultation and Coaching sessions.  You may contact him via his  email: info@astrologyspirit.com or website: https://www.astrologyspirit.com/

You can view his offerings and book directly here: https://www.astrologyspirit.com/book-online 

Thank you for listening!
Alexander & Sheila 

Transcript

Framing Astrology And Birth Choices

SPEAKER_01 0:16

So, welcome folks once again to another episode of the Astrology of Family Karma and Relationships Podcast. I'm Alexander Mallon, your host, and today we have uh a guest astrologer with a really interesting topic. So let me introduce uh you know astrologer and intuitive and tarot practitioner Rob Meisner. So, Rob, tell us a little bit about yourself and maybe you can kind of kick off um this this this question you had uh you had when we were talking about this this topic of birthing. Um our our topic is astrology and birthing and labor and delivery, and we'll we'll kick kick into that in a moment.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Yeah, so uh Rob Meisner, my mother got me into astrology and tarot many, many years ago. Um it's been a while since you've uh you've been my teacher, and uh thank you for all the insights that you've given me. Um very, very uh, very, very insightful and uh helped me a lot throughout my years. Um obviously, one of the things that you know really affects you as a person, anybody, especially women, but men too. You know, you don't even think about men as well. It's having a kid.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

You oftentimes don't when it comes to kids, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:27

You know, but men do get affected by having kids as well. Uh, very, very important. Um, it is um, like you said, um, birth chart isn't just your birth chart, it's also an event chart for your parents. Um, so uh when I uh knew that I was gonna have my second child, well, my first child as well, but especially my second child, the second time first child was kind of an emergency C section. So it was like, you know, like a normal birth or whatever. Second child, they the doctor actually said, Hey, you know, you have you have a range of dates, you know, we have this date for you that you can have the C section, but you can change it if you want. So obviously that got me thinking, hey, um looking into potential charts saying, hey, um the the date that she gave us was has you know sun moon square. Wow, we can actually change that if we want. First time, like I never would have imagined or ever heard in history that hey, somebody can choose a birth date and time for their child. Um you're not gonna force your conscious yeah, into um uh obviously that puts you into play, but you know, it also for me when I thought of that, it was like, yes, that's kind of something heavy as well. So you have to be very, very responsible. Um takes a lot of introspective.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Um well you just said something key. I I'm sorry I I interrupted you for a moment. You you were saying it it brings up the issue of consciousness or or or or conscious awareness, I think is but I mean, is that what you're yeah?

The Offer To Choose A C‑Section Date

SPEAKER_00 3:03

So obviously when you pick the birth chart for somebody um or anything, you know, and you that's so can have such a heavy effect on somebody, not necessarily dire, you know. I felt the weight of responsibility on my shoulders to make sure that hey, you know, if I have this opportunity, I get this right. Um, so I kept coming around to hey, I can pick this day. I was looking at the Thursday or the Friday, especially the Friday. That they would have had an uh Aries moon. But at the end of the day, um I didn't know what the effect of conscious change would be. So I just reverted back to the original date that they gave us. And well, let's let's mom was okay with that as well.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

So let's pause for a second and just kind of bring up our PowerPoint. We have a few slides. Uh, you know, after all, visual aids can can be helpful, I think, in astrology, and we have some charts to to look at as well. So, of course, you know, uh I I mean I kind of loosely have titled this program uh the astrology of birthing and delivery, you know, uh the subtitle My Doctor Offered Various Dates to Have Our C-section Birth. And so again, you know, our guest Rob Meisner. Um that is, I think, a working title. I mean, I am a Capricorn after all, and this is this is the functional fact of what we're getting at here. And you know, we don't have necessarily answers, folks, but we have we have questions and some some ideas. So, you know, it kind of hits me that you know every parent dreams of parenthood. And and as you say, when you are um certainly a fellow student of astrology, you it it it it takes on different dimensions about this this being, this soul, and and who they might be and what their potential is. So uh in the 21st century now, as you put as you pointed out, Rob, um, you know, when our obstetrician offers us different dates of when to have this baby, when to birth this this being, not only are we considering uh the general health of mom, certainly, and baby, but then there's the the subtext, you know, for for the student of astrology. Gee, what what does each chart possibility? I mean, if you've got three or four days options of when you might have a c-section, you know, what does the chart describe about that being or about that experience? Or you know, well, who will this baby be? Who who are they? What will they how will they be experienced by the world? After all, chart does describe that. So this idea of as above so below, the old axiom, as above, so below becomes a really critical idea, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:52

Yes, among others.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Among other things. So it's on your it's on your mind, like as above, so below, where where you mentioned earlier, my consciousness, where is my headset?

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Yeah. Well, um another thing that you know shamans tend to point out is energy flows where attention goes. Um obviously, you know, where you where you put your energy and where you look into in this particular case, uh, where you pour over energy, um, you give all your attention to it. Well, not all of it, but a lot of it. Um, so obviously, you know, as a parent, you want the best for your child, you want the best outcome. Um, but then you also have to consider ramifications of what you know any decision, maybe unintended consequences would be. Um Yeah, well, so this particular case put me off.

Responsibility, Consciousness, And Electional Astrology

SPEAKER_01 6:48

So well, that that's why I came up with a couple of other slides here. You know, we we have this ideal, right? Where we're we have these these joyful ideas about, and certainly most moms especially carrying this this soul in their body, have these joyful ideas of what where it might go, how who the who this person, this soul will be. Of course, that can go sometimes wonderfully right and sometimes not so perfectly as the Gary Larson slide here says, you know, the midvale school for the gifted, but he's he's you know, he doesn't figure out the doorway here. Uh not too rare for gifted who can be a little out of their bodies. You never know what's gonna happen. So, you know, we're so here we go. We're gonna sort of you know start the engines here of the general query uh of this this topic, uh these charts. You know, what what what are we talking about here? And one of the things I always teach uh every client that I have is something fundamental that we're considering when we talk about astrological charts, is that you know we're looking at winter, spring, summer, fall. I mean, you're really you're talking about what is your season of birth, what is your season sign? And I think that that season sign theme is a really important concept. I think this idea is not just your your birth date or your astrological sign. Your astrological sign is really a shorthand for understanding the turn of the seasons. You know, it is you know, an astrological sign is a calendrical uh shorthand for a uh a day, month, and year, uh, but or a day, a day and a month, certainly. Uh that so each sign's a kind of shorthand for that that phase. And again, Western astrology certainly, particularly, is constructed above the equator, this idea of the seasonal phenomenon uh above the equator, um what happens from springtime to summer to fall to winter, which really discusses in terms of the seasons, let's say spring to summer to fall to winter, the arc of the sun, the sun you know raising every noon hour higher and higher in the sky until summer solstice, and then descending into the fall to the lowest point during winter solstice, December 21st. So the that that arc of the sun, the arc of daylight, and for humans like daytime, daylight is is good. We're diurnal, we're not nocturnal. So daytime experience and you know, long days, short nights for the spring summer, or longer nights and shorter days for the winter months, um, are what astrology charts talk about, really. The sun, the sun, sign, the season sign describes that. So when you're having a birth, in this case a c-section, you you know when your child's gonna be born within a few days, right? I mean, you knew this was a December birth, huh? And so without necessarily probably thinking about it, because you have a lot on your mind when you have a baby, it's you know, three trimesters in and you're getting ready to deliver. Um, obviously you knew you had a Sag baby, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

And all that that implied.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Yeah. Well, I found interesting though, too, about her the chart that you know we've ended up settling on is that she's got a sun insag, but it's pretty much by itself.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

And you know Well, we'll bring the chart up and we can dig into that chart. But so the fact that the sun is is by itself in the chart you're saying was significant?

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Yeah. Um, but also that she does have the Capricorn stellium right there, and she was born right when COVID was starting to just starting to come out. So that's power-packed timing.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

Yes. Well, let's go back to um our chart.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

But her personal planets, if you look at it, were actually not very close to the sun. Um, Mars and Scorpio, uh, Venus, um, even Jupiter, I think, at the first degree of um of uh uh Capricorn.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

Well, we'll dig we'll bring up her chart here really quick and come come back to it. We have a few other slides to dig into. But so here's that slide of her son being overhead. She came at uh December 3rd of 2019 at 11 uh three in the morning in Poughkeepsie, New York. It's basically just uh uh north of New York City, for those people who don't know, uh the Hudson Valley area. So since she's born at 11 o'clock in the morning, just past 11.03, that sun is arcing, and it rose in the morning is arcing toward that midday point overhead, its highest point. So she's born just before the sun is at its highest elevation for that day.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

Oh there's a question. What's your take on? I know a lot of people are having c-sections, the scheduled c-sections. Um, to your point earlier, people are born during the mornings, usually. So this is a pretty typical time, and more and more people are being born during the morning. We're seeing probably less and less people born at night.

Seasons, Sun’s Arc, And Sign Meaning

SPEAKER_01 12:02

Well, we in prepping the show for our listeners and our viewers, Rob and I were kicking around this idea of um looking at the different dates that your optetrician provided, the possibilities of when this C-section, this birth can can happen. And um I had thrown out the idea let's let's kind of keep that 11 o'clock roughly, that morning time for a potential for all these dates we're gonna look at in a moment. Uh, because I would think most obstetricians, most uh most labor and delivery uh doctors, excuse me, and uh staff probably uh feel that the morning is a better time for a procedure because you never know for sure what happens in a medical procedure. Um I've had over the decades clients uh who are electing surgical dates or electing um you know some kind of medical procedure date. Doctors typically suggesting morning time just in case anything were to happen in any given procedure. So yeah, I think we have to presuppose that probably more obstetricians will be delivering children by c-section somewhere in the morning hours, than let's say late afternoon or evening hours, right? I mean, it's less likely, and depending upon the weather. I guess if it's a wintertime birth as yours was in a wintering wintertime zone, probably less likely to deliver a child by c-section in the afternoon or the evening hours when you could have inclement weather issues um both you know entering, getting to the getting to the the the the the the delivery room or maybe I guess exiting too.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

Funny you mentioned that because um that night um as I was coming back from work last the night before, there was a bad snowstorm, I got a flat tire, and um it was the struggle to get to the hospital in time.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

We made it so so Emmy's chart should show that because charts describe circumstances. So that was the that was the night before Emmy's birth when when she when uh Natalia was getting close, it was like time.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

Okay. Let's go back to our our cheat sheets here for a moment, our visuals. So um, you know, one thing to keep in mind, of course, always with astrology is that what we're looking at is a season sign, you know, and and a sub-season sign. So that's another factor. If you had a couple of days to choose from for a C-section, I mean, it is possible that a child could be born. Talk about Cuspi, you know, between one sign and another, between, let's say, Scorpio and Sag or Saj and Capricorn or something for this wintertime birth. Um, it is possible that a child might be, you know, one sun sign or another. And that brings up a whole nother thing where a lot of astrologers, I think, Rob, would say that um, let's say in this case for Emmy, she's in December, um, that um that a Scorpio and a Sag are two really radically different people. Um that so if we if she was to be born maybe on that cusp within a day or two, that would be another consideration of whether I have a Scorpio child or a Sag child. And the way I look at it, since my my you know background, uh uh my other passion, most people know, is that I'm a very avid backyard astronomer, um, from an observational standpoint, it doesn't really matter a whole hell of a lot those few days, those few degrees. You know, the seasonal change happens over time, happens over weeks. It doesn't really, I mean, there is a there is a truth of from day to day, like I found March 21st. You know, right around the beginning of Aries, the end of Pisces, that turn of that season, when in celestial mechanics, the sun begins to climb over that uh celestial equator and we begin to have longer days. There is a definite significant shift in nature from the cold and the dark and the difficulty of winter to the beginning of springtime when Aries starts. So it is true each cusp of each sign does have this natural shift period, which also means um people tend to respond to the environment. You know, we we tend to gear up for blizzard time or we tend to gear up for for you know beachgoing time. There are two different things. Uh so within a couple of days, it can, of course, make a difference what the flow of nature is and the flow of of social consciousness is. But at the same time, you're kind of within a two or three, four-day period delivering a child by C-section. And so whatever's happening in the kind of the outer world that's imprinting mom and dad and the baby, that the chart is mirroring, I mean, it's going to be within sort of sort of that cusp. So I look at people born the cusp as kind of both signs. That's that's what I look at. But in this case, it doesn't apply to to um uh Emmy's birth, of course. But I just thought it it it deserves being said that that season of birth is part of what a chart is. And of course, that time of birth is really critical. I love this graphic. You know, where are we in that the sun's journey from you know midnight to rising to noon hour culminating to sunset? And what do we collectively typically do? Those are the houses of a chart. So if we had a a time variation from one potential C-section date to another, um, you know, we would be going from you know, perhaps one sign or another on the ascendant, which every astrologer knows would be a significant um difference. So when we bring up Emmy's chart, we'll see that um for sure. Another issue is the moon phase and the moon placement and the and the moon degree. Here, over a three or four day span of potential C-section birth. This was, as we see in those charts, when we bring them up, a really big issue for you, right? Because you could have had a for Emmy, you could have had a moon in Aquarius or a moon in Pisces or a moon in Aries, is that right?

SPEAKER_00 18:21

Um yes. Uh usually, I mean, I don't know if we could have gotten the um you know the earlier date, but the later the Aries moon was probably more on the table.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. So the the moon sun phase, the moon sun phase could even be at issue from over a four-day period as that phase changes. But but again, I look at nature uh astronomically when I'm out there at the eyepiece and my observatory. I I'm I really look at it as you know having subtle variations over a two or three-day period. But if you had a if you had a birth option, you know, over a four or five-day period, which kind of you did for Emmy, you know, it could be a different phase. And each moon phase, we know, has a different astrological sort of meaning, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:11

Yes. Well, yeah, to your point, I mean, I kind of got the feeling, yeah, no, she's definitely going to be a Sag no matter what. Um but you know, there's a like the subtle I got a little worried about the subtle um distinctions between, you know, what would you know this moon phase and um that moon phase. I don't think Jupiter would have changed. I don't think Jupiter would have uh been in the previous sign. Had I been there for a few days, but it was Jupiter's really um close to uh um beginning of uh Capricorn there.

Morning Births And Medical Practicalities

SPEAKER_01 19:51

I I think I think we'll see that on December 2nd, uh yeah, that Jupiter actually did ingress into Capricorn on Emmy's birth date. So uh technically an astrologer perhaps would see that that Jupiter would be in its own home sign of Saj the day before Emmy's birth, and in the sign Jupiter, in the sign of its uh fall in Capricorn, the day of Emmy's birth. So technically speaking, one could look at that. And astrologers, I think, are taken to look at things very definitively. You know, there there is electional astrology, electing uh a time to have a surgery, or electing a time to open a store for business, or electing a time to launch a stock in terms of stock market astrology. And those kinds of subtleties are things astrologers really, really look at, and they they hold them often, I think, uh in a very black and white kind of a way. I don't know if you if you experience that, uh right. They kind of think either the Saj is in its home-based sign of, I mean Jupiter in the home-based sign of Saj or it's in the sign of its fall Capricorn on Emmy's birth. Astrologers might seize on that, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:09

Yeah. That's true. And but to your point also, it's not really, it's really a very, very seldom do you say, like, you know, on this particular date at this particular time at the moment that it that it changes signs. You know, is it very like a switch? It usually is very much a you know a gradual, like uh the leaves coming out of the trees.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

That's a great analogy. I love that. The leaves don't usually just pop right out from a bare twig. It's it's a process. That's that's the point of you know, all charts are astronomically a process. You know, the the sun rising and setting every day, it's a process. You know, the season, it's a process, right? You know, the other thought too that's connected for me when when when I'm thinking about Emmy's your your daughter's birth and other people who are um having this option as well of when to deliver their C section baby. Um the other thing is what zodiac do you use? Because if we if we use the Vedic zodiac, which is a different zodiac, um all these ideas of planet. That are right in the cusp or the edge, as Jupiter in your case, that's that goes out the window. There's a different, a different way of measuring the circle of the seasons. But you know, I'm a tropical Western astrologer, as you are. We're both tropical Western astrologers, unless you know I know there's something happening for you I don't know yet. Um, but we use that starting point of zero Aries, March 21st as the beginning of the growing season, the phenomenal season. And I think it does really actually match our social seasonal uh programming, you know, in a big way. So um so take it away here. I'm gonna bring up Emmy's birth chart. Here it is, December 3rd, 2019, 11.03 in the morning in Poughkeepsie, New York, that's again Hudson Valley, New York, north of Manhattan. So um what would you what were the things that you were looking at with this chart?

SPEAKER_00 23:06

Mostly the first thing that that sprung to my mind uh was the sun uh sun and uh sad uh square of the moon in Pisces there. Um I know given just a few days' difference, that would be that would have been probably the biggest thing. Um and that was the one thing that really hit me the hardest. Oh, she's gonna have a sun, moon, square. If she continues to be born on that day.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

Right, on the on the day before the second, when that Jupiter was still in Saj, barely, the moon was in Aquarius. So an air air moon and a fire sun. And technically speaking, uh not not in square to each other the day before her birth. The day of Emmy's birth, there was that moon moving toward square. It was in an applying square, right? It was at four degrees.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

Seven degrees away from a square.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

Right, seven degrees away, but that that sun was 11 degrees.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

No applying square.

Emmy’s Chart: Sag Sun, Pisces Moon

SPEAKER_01 24:07

Applying square. That moon is active, and so the idea too of um of a waxing moon versus waning, this building, this this building toward energy versus perhaps a waning of energy. Uh applying aspects are often astrologically seen as somehow more powerful, and you know, so separating aspects implied to be somehow shifting, which kind of you know, think about just nature again, you're moving towards something or or shifting, moving away from from an encounter. That's really what we're talking about. So you saw this that the moon um the day before Emi's birth was 22 of Aquarius uh at 11 o'clock in the morning on December 2nd of 2019. Uh, and you know, therefore, in good alignment by element, air element for that moon in Aquarius, fire for that sun, and the day after, the day of Emi's birth, actually, that moon and a water sign, that sun and a fire sign. So I I would kind of wonder, proof from the putting up, I wouldn't wonder. I would presume, most astrologers would presume that um her sun and a fire sign, Saj, lighting the hearth, lighting the candle, a wintertime celebration of light, lighting the menorah, December when Amy was born, lighting the hearth is a great, I think, a great fire version of wintertime sag. Um, so that fire of spirit, uh, with her ego, her conscious sun, and that water sign moon would suggest that she's it's like you know, fire and fire and water, steam. I mean, do you do you experience? I wonder your experience of having your daughter, does that quality of steaminess sort of come out?

SPEAKER_00 25:49

Yes, um, I would definitely say so. She's a very bubbly person, um, very gregarious, um, loves to smile. She does cry once in a while, um, and it it can be pretty intense um when she does have you know an emotional breakdown, but she comes through it. Um, and just like all um fire signs, fire energy, yeah, you get upset very quickly, but then you're over it very quickly as well.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Um I wonder, I wonder since you you had the option of the day before Emmy's birth, the 2nd of December 2019, and that Aquarius moon, that late 22-degree Aquarius moon, versus the Emmy's birth, that four degrees uh Pisces uh moon that Emmy has on her birthday. Um I wonder if you were looking at that elemental balance of the the air moon and the fact that that moon I call it moon and Aquarius, I call moon and Aquarius or Capricorn moon in a wintertime sign. I think that that's a very important way, naturalistically, nature-wise, to see it. Moon in a wintertime sign. And it definitely has a different vibe than moon in that early springtime, that that just pre-springtime of Pisces, um, where the winter's starting to break. Moon in water sign Pisces is uh would imply a different emotional nature. So I'm gonna guess that you saw the fiery sag sun that she'd have in that you know early December date. Um, but that moon in Aquarius would be a different emotional character. So tell me about that. That must have crossed your mind, right?

SPEAKER_00 27:26

Um, yeah, it did. Um, I thought, yeah, that would be great. I also looked at the later chart when she would have had the moon in Aries and thought that would have been you know the sun-moon shrine, um like really, really heavy in the fire.

SPEAKER_01 27:41

Um that's and sometimes it's hard to that's this chart here say, but whoops, there's the December 5th chart has a moon almost in Aries, and the December 6th chart, the moon is in Aries. So that's your you're referring to that moon and Aries being fire, and the sun in Sag being fire.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

Yep. Um my son um has a sun-moon trine. Um, it's all air, Aquarius, Gemini. Um, and I got along with him, you know, obviously, pretty well. Um, energy flows very well. And I was sort of thinking, you know, maybe something like this would be great to give to my daughter, if it's possible. And I don't know why, and I don't know where it is, but something didn't feel quite right. And at the end of the day, I felt the best option would be just to go with the the original date that they gave us. So sometimes it's hard to say why, but in this particular case, I know that sun, moon, and I told myself, yeah, if you have a sun, moon square, yeah, it might be difficult, but at least it gets the personality moving.

Weighing Moon In Aquarius, Pisces, Or Aries

SPEAKER_01 28:51

Well, so that that is um something that did cross my mind here with Emmy's chart when I first looked at it, too, was that that moon was applying to Neptune, um, just coming out of Aquarius, by the way. So the way I practice astrology is I see that moon is being cuspy. I see that moon is being certainly Neptunianly Pisces, next to conjoin Neptune here, that that moon is Piscean and Neptunian, but that moon is also just coming out of uh Aquarius, and also um for the record, one of the four uh royal stars is Fomahot. Uh that is at three degrees of Pisces, and so her moon is conjoined by one degree Fomahat, which is one of those royal stars of Egypt. It talks about fame or infamy, but usually fame or possibilities of of grand grandness or greatness, and here, of course, the moon, we sort of emotional, which is sort of imply that when she's emotionally in flow, there's something maybe special about her that she can bring or bring to relational connections. But that moon is also still just coming out of four degrees, so it means uh eight hours or nine hours earlier, the moon had been been exiting Aquarius. So with this Aquarius rising that an 11 o'clock or mid-morning birth would have, uh, that moon does have an Aquarian flavor to it. There is going to be a dispassionate uh quality of her um her one would think her emotional wiring. Now, of course, again, uh, if she were uh on December 2nd with that moon actually in Aquarius, that would even be more likely for her to be very uh logical, rational, dispassionate, a moon and air sign, sun and fire sign, so uh so internally a flow. But then I looked at that Aquarius rising with Saturn and Pluto, and I thought, hmm, moon ruled by Saturn with the Saturn rulership rising. Um this is gonna be a rather logical, uh emotionally logical person. And there were maybe emotionally moon and moon in Aquarius, moon in a wintertime sign is how I teach it. Maybe emotionally kind of not necessarily flowing, you know. So I wonder if that crossed your mind about the day before Emmy uh her birth.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

Yeah, that did as well. Um obviously in these these few days it's the moon that's that's gonna be the biggest difference in the in the span of about five days. Um so you know, you usually, you know, when I when I look at this and you look at you know whatever options you have, and it's strange that we're speaking of it like this, but uh when you do look at the options that you have, um you have to look at the the consequences of you know what would be if you chose um a moon in Aquarius. Um I kind of had a feeling like my son has a moon in Gemini, and I don't know if I could have another air sign moon in the house. I see just because he you know he is um he's a chatter and um you know he he's a real jokester, he can be. Um but you know having um you know a moon in Pisces, you know, yes, um I I trying to you know you know reconcile hey that's a sun moon square and yes maybe it might bring difficulty to her life. Um I did not know at the time about the uh the royal star that was there at three degrees. I I know completely forgot about I'm mostly I know I'm aware of obviously Regulus and um but that was the one that um I know it might give her a little bit of difficulty, but it might also give her the impetus to um get a personality and move in life.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

So well, here's another little tidbit. That December 2nd, so again, just for the record listeners and viewers, um your daughter is born indeed on December 3rd. The C section was December 3rd, 2019, at 11:03 in the morning in New York, Poughkeepsie, New York. Um, on December 2nd, and really the the day before that, December 1st, that sun would have been at 9 degrees. Galactic center. Well, no, that's actually Ontara. That that's um Antares. That's the fixed star Antares, another of the four royal stars of Egypt. And so that nine degree uh uh Sag sun, it's really close here, uh by two degrees her birth chart, actually. Nine degrees of Saj is Antares, the heart of the scorpion. Uh it is a military uh uh kind of uh an energy, it is a power uh uh compelling kind of energy. It is a quality of being uh stronger and larger than life. There can be a quality of seductive, there can be a quality of uh dominating, there can be a quality of control. Um there certainly is a standout personality. So she's got her on her birth date, actually, December 3rd, she has that sun two degrees away from Antares. Most astrologers say, oh, it's got to be within one degree, and I say fooie to that. I think that's based on what? See, astrology in general is an interpretive art form anyway, and so there's no real rule book on it exactly. Um will Emmy's character um have that Antares nine degrees uh Saj uh in somehow embedded in her character structure? I say definitely yes. So her sons can join Antares, one of the four royal stars of Egypt, turning point stars of the seasons, and her moon is conjoined, conjoined Falmohot to the royal stars of Egypt. So that would be one thing that I would be thinking about with the December 3rd birth, notwithstanding the square, by all means. So that that is a that is an issue. Um, and then of course, I'm going back to that decan chart, something else I want to discuss, but um the December 5th chart, we had the moon in late Pisces in the morning hours. The moon was conjoined to the fixed star Shiat, S-C-H-E-A-T, which really deals with it's it's one of the one of the um uh great square Pegasus stars. It deals with the the forearm or the forehoof of uh Pegasus, the winged horse. Um, but it does seem to coincide with this idea of think of being about being trampled upon or challenge. So um December 5th, the other option that you considered, has that moon conjoined Shiot, S-C-H-E-A-T, and it can be a uh a moon degree, they said in uh in ancient scholarship of of shipwreck or challenge. So conjoin the the Neptune, conjoin the the black moon, Lilith, conjoin Chiron, and that could be uh an indict of health issues long term, but also certainly psychoemotionally, it it can talk about some some challenge. Now, the other part is that there's a beautiful trine of that moon to that Mars Mercury, those Pisces moons are beautifully trying to that Mars Mercury. So maybe she would wind up working with people who are in jeopardy or in trouble. That could be an expression of that. But that moon um with with uh that fixed star Shiat is kind of a uh a questionable one. The the day after that December 6th has, as you said, that moon and Aries. And I have to say, in general, probably for um most people to have a sun in fire and a moon in fire in a beautiful applying trine to each other probably would be a felt quality of um of power and and flow. So I uh obviously you looked at this moon and Aries date a great deal. So what what what again had you think I have the option of the moon and Aries, but I'm gonna go with the moon of Pisces. I'm just curious what you thought when you saw the moon and Aries.

Jupiter’s Ingress And Fixed Stars

SPEAKER_00 37:22

Well, um Moon and Aries, obviously. Well my wife has moon and Aries, mom has moon and Aries as well. Um I know that they um you know the Aries, the Sun and Aries, people do that do have that shrine, you know, life does seem to go flow a little easier for them, at least on an internal scale. Um like my son has that. That's the main reason I was looking at that, because my son has you know Aquarius Gemini uh sun, moon shrine, and he's very self-contained. Um is very self-supportive, he doesn't really need you know vindication or validation from others, which is you know nice thing to have in a kid. So um this is the one big reason why I would probably have chosen this. Um, I know Aries fire is a little um you know, I don't want to say less grounded than Air, obviously, but you know, definitely a lot more. She would be a little bit more adventurous, definitely.

Event Charts And Family Dynamics

SPEAKER_01 38:29

I she would probably contender she'd be more fiery, I would bet you're right. So here is um the birth chart on December 3rd with um mom with Natalia. And as you mentioned, uh had Emmy been born that day before with that moon and Aries at 10 degrees, it would have been a moon Aries with mom's moon Aries Venus. That would be a nice alignment. So um here the birth chart actually that moon and Pisces um uh still has a powerful connecting factor to that uh water the water placements in Natalia's chart. I also noticed that that moon in Pisces squares mom's sun and mom's Uranus. Either way we go, these few days of December 3rd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, all have that sun conjoined your your mom's uh your spouse's ascendant there at nine degrees Sag. So the the sun of this chart, even with the re regardless of which day, within those few four four or five days, is going to be on mom's ascendant. That is an important factor in this chart, no, no doubt. Um but here's the other thing I want to point out. Where we're looking at these, is this is what happens when you get into this kind of a this it's a little bit of a quagmire potentially, right? When we start reviewing the the dates of birth and thinking about, you know, December 3rd, December 2nd, December 5th, December 6th, you know, the moon going from uh Aquarius to Pisces to Aries, you know, what what's what works best. The other piece we're kind of forgetting is that this, as I love to say, is an event chart. Having a human come out of your body for mom is about as big an event as you're gonna have in life. So birthing a human out of your body, um, that's a significant event. And so when we look at a birth chart, our birth charts too, with our parents, for instance, we look at our birth charts um wrapped around our our parents or our parents' birth chart in the center, as we have with Natalia, and Emmy, her daughter, in the outer wheel here, when we do that, we get another perspective of what the meaning of this or what circumstances are. I mean, the birth chart of a child actually describes the the circumstances of that child's birth and the situation around that child's birth. And so uh if we had an Aries moon, it would imply that perhaps that two days after that mom and daughter would be more emotionally uh aligned, perhaps. Um, but you know, again, we're discussing what what this um what this happenstance is about. And we have Uranus near the moon by transit. Uh so transiting Uranus in Emmy's chart was near mom's moon. So there is something sudden or quick that might be happening during this birth in general within these few weeks. There was a c-section, so there is a Uranian intervention here of some sort. It wasn't a natural birth, but something different happening, a c-section. And um, of course, too, I think it's interesting that that transiting Mars within that few days is near that Jupiter. And also, I look at it as not too far from opposing mom's moon Venus. So, there again, for me, would be the awareness that, yeah, this is going to be a c-section. Probably as an astrologer, I would have chosen, in fact, the week that Emmy was born, where that Mars is on that Jupiter and off the opposition to that moon for the birth itself. But it still describes the procedure. You know, we do have a Mars Uranus opposition, so it describes the procedure. There's a C-section birth, right? So that's another factor. So when we look also at the person's birth chart, it ostensibly describes here's where things get to think really, really weird. You know, if we go to Emmy's chart, or anybody else's chart for that matter, the chart itself describes Sun, Daddy, Moon, mommy, and where they are. So this begs the question how could Natalia, how could mom be in any real different state of being or consciousness from December 3rd to December 6th with that Aries moon? The Aries moon implies mom's in a very different state of consciousness or being, but uh you know, one would ask, any scientist would say, how much different can mom be in a few hours of time, you know, three or four days? Um that would be really kind of an implication. So maybe here's where we get to the weird part of astrology, where it does describe the the soul as well as the event. It's not only where mom and dad are and their own growth and their own development, it is also a little bit about that particular soul. Although one would think, although we don't, I mean, who could prove this, that a soul is already in some way, you know, near that near that that that uh child, you know, that near that fetus. I mean the soul, the soul they say is kind of proverbially hovering around that that child already. That the child's about to be born, no matter how you slice it, and it could even, I suppose, come, you know, of its own accord without the C-section. It could spontaneously start to arrive. It's you know, it's it's ready, man. Nine nine months are done.

SPEAKER_03 44:27

So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:29

So then this this gets a little metaphysical now, doesn't it? That yes, it's the chart, our our our charts describing mom and dad and the event of us entering their marital system, entering their their personal growth system, having a child into your life is another major life changer. And so our charts all describe how our birth was a game changer in some way for mom and dad. But now we're looking at these the possibility of a c-section and that moon changing signs, potentially implying a soul having a different uh in spiriting. So there's some there's then the then there's I guess if the soul is already hovering, there's some kind of interplay between the uh that soul's essential nature and and mom and dad's relationship to each other. Uh so I mean there's this is getting very now uh kind of kind of difficult to really. You really got to play. It's like like I think you said in the interview today, we were prepping, it's a little bit like playing God. It's a little bit like trying to think of the mind of God, so to speak.

SPEAKER_00 45:39

Yeah. So that's that's the one thing that did concern me about this. You know, you're given this choice, and you know, what are the consequences? Because you know, you you don't really know. Um even though you know you can have the chart in front of you, you can you can see what the aspects are. Um like you pointed out the the fixed stars, which I was yeah even I was unaware of. Um there might be something else that you know happens which you know might manifest in terms of an Aries moon. It might be, you know, traffic accident on the way, for example, something like that. You never know. Well then how these will manifest. Well that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 46:22

Well, that's an interesting point. So you're saying the your daughter having the Pisces uh moon at four degrees, and again, three three Pisces is Fomahot, that that famous fixed star, uh the royal star, Fomahot. Um, so we go from the Pisces moon that she has to Pop's perhaps an Aries moon, and you're saying circumstantially there might have been something environmentally happening that would be uh if she were born uh three days later on December 6th with that Aries moon that would have been sort of in some way what uh all uh shifting the the baby the baby's experience, the birthing experience, mom's experience. In other words, you could have had an auto accident, you could have had conversely something powerfully positive happen politically. So now we're we're looking at something sort of the we're looking at how the chart describes the physical environment around us, but also the psyche of of mom and dad. Now, now why would that be necessarily important uh for a person's birth chart? Is it that we have a a wiring? I think that science will in a in a in time will see that there is a sort of a synaptic wiring that quickly is happening and firing once we are out of mom's body and the umbilical is cut. I think there is a quick you know, brain synaptic firing where we're organizing ourselves to whatever's around us in the world uh circumstantially. So situations and circumstances and politics and mindset, and you know so you said earlier in in our prep where your headset is, you mentioned the double slit experiment. You want to reiterate that for or this?

SPEAKER_00 48:02

Yeah, the double slit experiment. Um I'm a little fuzzy on all the details, but if you have a beam of light and uh so now you're talking about physics here, right?

SPEAKER_01 48:09

You're talking about science. So you wanted to set this up a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 48:13

Um so um if you don't, I forget exactly how it is, if you don't observe the beam of light when it goes through a particular slit, it acts as a wave, but if you do observe it, it acts as a particle. Um so just the fact that you are observing and study it does affect what is happening there.

SPEAKER_01 48:37

So you you're describing in the in essence consciousness.

SPEAKER_00 48:41

Yes. So even if you are not aware or fully aware of what is happening, uh your very consciousness is affecting the world around it.

SPEAKER_01 48:52

Now that certainly having a human come out of your body, you know, being a father, having your your spouse having a human come out of her body, uh, having this baby enter your world, whatever's happening around you psychoemotionally is having an imprint on you, including this major event, and that baby's absorbing everything. That that that that human creature, that human mammal, is tuning into everything, certainly after his birth. There's a there's a theme of of thriving and surviving that happens. You know, we're we were nine months in this wonderful womb and safe and warm, and it was a you know a place for us to gestate, and now suddenly, you know, we're ripped from that situation where we're not in that situation anymore. So that birth experience, of course, is is uh primal, you know, and so whatever's happening around us, that child, the thriving principle and the surviving principle kicks in. And so that's also what a birth chart describes. But yeah, you just mentioned some really important pieces to to this C-section delivery date with astrology. You know, what what is my consciousness? Uh what are the what is it what are the circumstances around us? The chart describing the potentials of circumstances, the chart describing potentials of my consciousness, my spouse's consciousness, and where we are in our feeling state and with regard to each other. It also brings up, of course, as you're delivering with an obstetrician, the doctor's ideas, the the doctor's concepts about what's safe, unsafe, healthy for the baby, etc., right? So when you were looking at that, the moon Aquarius, or the moon Pisces, which it was for her birth, or the moon Aries, you were probably looking at those three charts also in terms of what the implication might be for the the wellness of the baby. Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_00 50:50

I I would think that would be another potential in life as well.

Quantum Mindset: Observation And Outcomes

SPEAKER_01 50:53

So well, the potential is the birth chart, this birth chart of December 3rd. That's the potential, that's that's the free will potential combination, right? But but when you were looking at the the date of birth itself, one would be contemplating any factors that could be uh problematical for the child. So for instance, an Aries moon on December 6th instead of December 3rd, an Aries moon would have been, yes, conjoin mom's Venus, and moon, but also opposing mom's Mars. So the obstetrician gave you a date of December 3rd. And if you said, well, can we push it to three or three, four days later? What do you what do you say, doctor? Can we push it three, four days later? The doctor might have opinions like, well, maybe, but that might be, you know, that's that's getting a little concerning for the welfare of the child. It's getting kind of late, perhaps. Astrologically, we'd look at a moon opposing Mars in mom's chart and think, you know, a moon opposing Mars, Saturn, Pluto. I mean, I would have, as an astrologer, I would have thought an Aries moon opposing that Mars, Saturn, Pluto could be concerning. It would, by the way, for your daughter, have plugged into your spouse's natal position of moon, mar moon, Venus conjunction, opposing Mars, Saturn, Pluto, Jupiter. That is what Natalia had in her birth chart.

unknown 52:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:21

The implication is certainly there in Natalia's chart, not only about the emotional psychic family pieces that we'll talk about with mom, it also talks about the circumstances of Natalia's birth, which probably themselves had some intense issues around it. So to have your own daughter with a moon and Aries opposing Natalia's Mars and Saturn and Pluto, perhaps could imply that this may be a little late for this baby, might be a little late for this birth process, might be might be.

SPEAKER_00 52:53

Yeah, that was also that was going through my head too. Not even astrologically, yeah. I mean, we were, I think, at that point already at nine months. So you know.

SPEAKER_01 53:02

So I'm wondering, did the obstetrician suggest that each day that if you were to wait, if you were to wait three or four days, that did she did the obstetrician have an opinion about that?

SPEAKER_00 53:12

Uh I don't remember, but I believe she did. Um, obviously, you know, she said you don't want to push it for too long, you know, you know, could you know put the baby in danger as well.

SPEAKER_01 53:25

So um which is which is what you know with the mom's chart, Mars, Saturn, Pluto, Mars, Saturn, Pluto, and the baby's moon opposing that, one as an astrology student could think, hmm, that could be concerning. Yes, it was wonderful that it would have been moon and Aries on moms, Venus, moon, and Aries that mom herself had, that part looks really joyful. Um, we would presuppose that, I mean, astrologically it implies that if Emmy had that um that moon in Aries, that she would be, as you say, Sag sun, moon Aries, really bubbly. But you know, something that we didn't really look at earlier that I would have thought of too, is um that moon in Pisces that she has in her birth chart, Pisces is ruled by Jupiter and Neptune both. The sun's ruled by Jupiter, the moon's ruled by Jupiter. Uh now we're now we're into a different thing, which is if we if we go the day before, uh, where was it? There it was, December 2nd, uh, that moon would be in Aquarius with that Jupiter in his home base sign of Sag. It's another another gig. And probably, see, the moon implication here in Aquarius would have been an emotionally rigorous person, a person who is uh emotionally rigorous and emotionally intense, and emotionally maybe even judgmental, and emotionally black and white, and emotionally driven, so a really driven personality, we would think that Emmy would have had if she were born the day before her birth, because that moon would have been conjoined the ascendant, emotional, but also um squaring the Mercury-Mars conjunction. So she would have been perhaps quite fiery. I'm gonna read this chart of her birth chart, that that it that fieriness is not where what we have with Emmy. She's not necessarily aggressively fiery, but I would think if we had her with that um that aquari that Aquarian moon, she she would have been. She would have had definitely a fiery quality. Now, again, the issue is what's happening a day, one 24-hour period before Emmy's birth, why would a 24-hour period in some way for mom or dad have shifted mom or dad energetically or psychologically or emotionally to have a baby, you know, come out with it with a different experience? Because the chart does describe not just the soul's nature, but what that soul is experiencing in this lifetime. So, you know, I think we're bringing up some kind of complex questions. I bet a lot of my viewers and listeners would say that I'm in some way overthinking it. Astrology tells you what's going to be. But I'm not so sure that we should look at it so uh plainly. For instance, you know, how many astrologers do mundane astrology and looking at uh charts of when uh the space shuttle exploded, or look at charts of the when the Titanic went down, or look at charts of when you know uh ice agents uh get into an armed conflict with citizenry. We look at those mundane charts because they describe the psyche and the spirit of that moment. And so that is what our birth charts do. They describe mom and dad's journey for nine months. We can even look at that um that pregnancy chart, you know, that that insemination chart, if you will, when when nine months earlier, you know, we've we've got that soul perhaps being birthed, you know, uh uh sperm ovum, right? So the charts are just supposed to be descriptive of our journey. So I'm just kind of wondering what thoughts were happening for you looking at all these charts that as we're kicking it around again today.

Decans, Phases, And Emotional Wiring

SPEAKER_00 57:14

Well, um, it comes down to yes, it it does describe, you know, you know, a snapshot at the moment. So it's like the imprint, you're always going to have that, you're always gonna have your birth chart, even though it does evolve. Um you know, that birth chart, even though obviously the progress charts always will, you know, will change and will will go on, and nothing, you know, nothing ever stays the same. But uh at the time I just felt the heavy the weight of oh my god, this is what her birth chart is, she'll never be able to change it. But right now I can change it. Um so that's kind of what was going on, you know, in in my head at the time. Um you know maybe we're coming into consciousness where that might not necessarily be the case um in a strange way, but at the time when I was thinking that yes, for now we do have these choices. Um the consequences of these choices um might not always be immediately apparent, but um I wanna wanna know what you think about, you know, now that we have these choices, what are the um the ramifications?

SPEAKER_02 58:37

I think you muted yourself.

SPEAKER_01 58:39

Sorry. When I look at stock market astrology or um how those charts describe market movement, or when I look at mundane political charts uh and what they how they describe a circumstance on that has unfolded, or when when we look at electional astrology and we elect w when to uh w when to open a storefront for business, when to uh uh initiate uh a contract or something. Um the idea is that there that there is something happening phenomenologically within and without that uh that that charts mirroring us, mirroring you know, a time when there's flow or or less flow, right? So um so I think we are exploring really in this case day by day for your daughter's birth in this case, circumstances, environmental or familial or social. I think that we're uh we're describing psychic states that the parents are having, and maybe marital states that they're having, where where they are together. I mean, all those things are what are implied in a chart. Um I think in a very real-time sense, this it brings up um kind of an interesting premise that you know from from day by day, our, as you said when we started, this idea of that uh physics and the you know, the particle versus wave, you know, the the the aiming aiming uh electrons, a beam of light at a particle slit experiment where the you know the electrons uh are are enjoined in some way. This this idea of everything's interweaving, everything's enjoined in some way, and quantum physics, you know, this is something that astrologers are really tagging on to, this idea that everything's interwoven as above, so below. So we're really talking about where is our consciousness and our headset from even day to day, and how I say with my clients, when we're born, when when a child is born, the dog, the cat, and the little kid are absorbing everything that's happening in that family. So, you know, our state of consciousness, our state of conscious awareness, our state of unconsciousness, our state of unconscious lack of awareness all have some implication for what's happening around us. And since we have, in this case, for your daughter, potentially an Aquarius moon or a Pisces moon or an Aries moon, and those implications are for astrologers radically different emotional wirings, goes to show how could something in a few days really be so foundationally different from for the parent. It just goes to show, again, state of consciousness. Uh so yes, there are, as you said, astutely, there could have been circumstances during each moon phase, potential for the C-section, there could have been emotional, psychological, physiological, uh, family-oriented circumstances that could shift kind of the soup of what's happening. So let's get back to your your the your daughter's chart here for a second, if I may. There was one slide that I didn't really get a chance to talk about, and that was decans. That since we can really look at a time of birth differential from uh one one delivery date to another, potentially, um, but also that moon will shift by sign and by degree, we do have each decan, 10 degree uh components of each birth sign. So in the traditional uh traditional Western uh decadates of astrology, um each 10 degrees are ruled by a different planetary ruler, we could say each ten degrees of each sign has a different a different vibe, is a good way to put to put that. So if we considered the tail end of Aquarius uh in the in the Venus di decan versus the early degrees of uh Pisces, where Emmy's four degree Pisces moon is ruled by the decan of Jupiter, versus the last decan of Emi's chart, that would have been, as you said, the possibility of December 5th, with that 28 Pisces moon and the decan of Mars. Or um, you know, a 10 degree or earlier, a 10 degree roughly, uh moon in Aries on December 6th, that would have been a Mars decan again. So that martial energy would have been most notable when she was born during a Jupiter decan. It says that her nature would be perhaps you know especially um jovial. You know, that there's that Jupiter-Jove quality is uh is a powerful piece of that chart. So the decans are one thing we can look at too in setting this and describing the nature of that child, but also the nature of the child is what's happening around it. So yeah, as we kind of come to close pretty soon, some I don't know, some thoughts you may have about all of this.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:56

So, um, well, one of the things I said before, this is you know a new tool um that we have. I I kind of see that. Um, you just gotta know where to, you know, to wield it correctly. You know, it's like the first person who picked up an axe, you know, said, you know, yes, I can make firewood and I can, you know, make you know material for a house, or I can chop my arm off, you know. So um in a way, you know, just like that. You gotta be careful. Um, so um I have a Virgo moon, so obviously I'm as prudent and as careful as as I could possibly be. Um so um, but it is interesting that is uh one of the ways that you know consciousness can be uh elevated here because now we are forced to see you know what potentials would be, you know, and even even the different birth charts that you look at could theoretically be seen as living, um still a living being. I mean, I'm sure somewhere in the world somebody was born on December 6th. Um and you know, they might have X amount of chart, but I mean if you can if you think about it, my daughter, in a sense, just because I thought about it, might have certain aspects of that chart as well.

Ethics Of “Playing God” And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_01 1:05:15

So well, and and as I say, you know, life is life is a phase. You know, every birth chart is a snapshot astronomically in mo in motion. Everything's in motion, you know, we we are constantly in growing motion. That's the implication of a chart that we are growing in motion. And here, you know, this idea in this in this very um rubber to the road kind of a thing that we're discussing here. Do I birth my child with an Aquarian moon? Do I birth my chart my child with a Pisces moon? Or do I birth my child C-section with an Aries moon? Um, well, when you start getting down to it, it's describing a an interrelationship of of inner and outer circumstances, kind of like that that issue of uh a particle versus a wave in physics, you know, that that the energetic is a really key thing. The awareness, the mindfulness, the mindset is a really key element. But there's no doubt that in standard astrology, we would read the Those three charts in some ways very differently emotionally, an Aquarian moon, a Pisces moon, an Aries moon. We read them, read them technically very differently for that child. And so it does uh it does bring up an issue of what would vary. How would those few days necessarily vary that child? And we all know in astrology that the moon governs because it changes signs uh every two and a half days. The moon symbolically describes a zeitgeist, a outer world, inner world, interactive change of consciousness from every two and a half day period. Every two and a half days something is shifting. Um we can kind of think of that too, by the way, in terms of the phases of the moon and and how the phases of the moon progress uh every month and how they change their apparently you know their apparent illumination, even so nature has me thinking about the houses of a chart. Each house will change also. Uh every every sign rising will change every two hours. So there is this theme of of duality, you know, things uh things are are are about uh interactive. Um but anyway, the you know the the philosophy, psychology of this, the spiritual uh psychology is actually what we're getting at uh and the root of this discussion, or where where I've taken it at least, but uh practically speaking, you know, you your your daughter's got this Pisces moon and that Sag sun, and they are square to each other, and it implies um something about mom and dad, maybe uh with connection to Emmy, mom and dad um making adjustments, making adjustments to each other, making adjustments in how they parent this child. Perhaps if Emmy had that moon in Aries, it would be a little more flow. Maybe uh maybe Emmy's nature would be more fiery rather than a fiery action. Here we have a Sag Sun action fire and a moon Pisces feeling responsive. I mean, she's clearly the chart says, very, very sensitive moon Pisces with Neptune and feeling oriented, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:32

Yes, but to your point, that would also you know entail the opposition to Pluto um and and Saturn, at least um I think Ankins and Mom's chart. But um, you know, those are other uh things to consider as well. So, you know, it might make life easier in one area, but more difficult in another. It's I guess two two sides of the of the same coin.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:59

So my thought, you know, folks, and kind of as we come to close for today, we'll maybe we'll pick this up again and and you know dig into it in other ways uh as we contemplate this complex theme. Um kind of a final thought would be that the the chart is a is a mirror of our conscious awareness, the chart is a mirror of our child's interaction with us. The chart is a mirror of our interaction with each other as parents and how that child is is vibing us. And ultimately, um every parent knows this one, which is that your your child is a major uh source of learning and growing for you as a person. That every child will will challenge you and encourage you to grow as an individual. Uh, and that's the other part that we could look at you this issue of which moon does my daughter should my daughter have when I have a C-section, can also describe how will this child challenge or support each each parent. So that's that's another thing. Maybe we'll pick up and do a part two to this another time and talk about the the lived experience here. I'm kind of curious about that a little bit. So any definitely any closing thoughts or ideas for today?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:19

Um, well, the only thing that shot into my mind energy, energy goes where attention, um, energy flows where attention goes. Um, as always, Alex, thank you again. Um being a great teacher. Thank you so astrologer.

Contacts, Thanks, And Possible Part Two

SPEAKER_01 1:10:34

So so kind of you. So let's just bring up then uh a couple of last slides here to to contact us. So um for those of you who want to get a hold of Rob for astrology and do our tarot sessions, uh they can go to Robert Meisner65 at gmail.com. That's right. Thank you very much. Indeed, thank you too. And folks, if you want to get a hold of me for session work, uh, you know where to find me at astrologespirit.com. And there's my uh my QR code there for people to take your cell phones and kind of quickly take you to my website. Thank you so much, Rob. It was great to connect with you again. And uh maybe we'll talk about a part two here. Uh we'll have some other thoughts that are maybe more glued together. Today was just kind of a romp around the the mulberry tree with possibilities. Thanks everyone for listening and watching. We'll we'll see you again. Have a great night. Take care. Thank you, Alex. Thanks too. See ya. Bye bye now.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:34

Bye bye, y'all.