Wake Up

Healing Childhood Wounds

• Douglas James Cottrell PhD • Season 2 • Episode 18

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We all carry wounds from childhood – from difficult teachers and parents to schoolyard bullies – but how do we heal them and move forward? Dr. Douglas Cottrell tackles this profound question with compassion and clarity, offering a transformative perspective that allows us to reframe our early experiences.

Rather than dwelling on how our childhoods "should have been," Dr. Cottrell invites us to acknowledge that we survived these formative years – a significant achievement in itself. This shift in perspective creates space for understanding and forgiveness, both for others and ourselves. As he eloquently puts it, "The secret to life is, every time you get knocked down, you get up."

The conversation explores how childhood memories remain extraordinarily vivid decades later, and how understanding the context of these experiences – recognizing parents' limitations, economic struggles, or emotional upheavals – can help us process them from a more compassionate adult perspective. Dr. Cottrell shares fascinating insights about intergenerational patterns, noting how "the parents treat the children the same as they were treated," and offers practical wisdom for breaking these cycles.

A particularly illuminating segment examines life's 10-year cycles, each bringing unique challenges and lessons. From the explorative first decade to the reflective seventies and beyond, understanding these natural phases helps us set appropriate expectations and navigate life's journey with greater awareness. Dr. Cottrell advises having "one goal for every 10 years" to maintain direction and purpose.

Whether you're working through your own childhood wounds or seeking to create a healthier environment for the next generation, this thoughtful exploration offers valuable insights for becoming "the captain of your own ship" regardless of your past experiences. Join us for a conversation that might just change how you view your life story.

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Announcer:

Welcome to Wake Up with Dr Douglas James Cottrell, your source for helpful information, advice and tips to live your life in a mindful way in this increasingly chaotic world. For over four decades, Dr Douglas has been teaching people how to develop their intuition and live their lives in a conscious way. His news and views of the world tomorrow, today, are always informative and revealing. And now here's your host, Dr Douglas James Cottrell.

Douglas James Cottrell:

Welcome to the Wake Up, a broadcast where curiosity leads to deeper understanding. I'm your host, Douglas James Cottrell, and my good friend and co-host, Les Hubert, is here with me as we delve into the fascinating realms of life, metaphysics, spirituality and the pressing questions that shape our world. Good to see you again, Les. What's up tonight?

Les Hubert:

Doug, we've got an interesting one for you tonight: childhood traumas and how to deal with them. Not many of us have had an idyllic childhood. We have the tough teachers, the tough parents, we have the schoolyard bullies. How do we come to forgive these people for their shortcomings?

Douglas James Cottrell:

Well, let's look at it and say, "I survived, I made it through childhood." And if we look at it that way, instead of like, my childhood ought to have been a different way than it was, we can somewhat see okay, we survived. It's a rite of passage, basically, when you're going through life, that particular part of your life which is, you know, you're grappling with life itself, you're trying to figure out all the different things that are happening and remember we're learning at warp speed. I mean, we have people in our families that we have to deal with, and sometimes families have economic situations, they have emotional upheavals. Mom and Dad might not be getting along so well. Maybe, just maybe, baby came along at the most inopportune time and that added to the stresses and the difficulties. Maybe mommy was a single, mom was a teenager, daddy was a teenager, maybe we didn't have the fundamental idealistic thing of a euphoric family. So one needs to look back instead of me, me, me, focusing on, you know, the person, the life that you lived, from a perspective that you're interpreting and remembering it as you were a child. Not from the perspective of now, much later in life, and looking back as a teenager or young adult or middle-aged person. You know the appearance of what happened in those childhood years from an older perspective, like, okay, yeah, mommy was a teenager and you know, I was a surprise. Okay, now I understand why there were hardships and difficulties and trauma in my life as a child. So it's a perspective looking back, to look forward. And so the first thing to come to is say, okay, I had some pretty tough times, because we remember as if it was yesterday when something happened to us, when somebody was screaming at us or sitting on top of us or beating us up, or even some childhood memories in kindergarten are very vivid today, 60, 70 years later.

Douglas James Cottrell:

I can still remember seeing myself in kindergarten. I can remember when they brought us in one door, when we came for the half day to kindergarten and then they decided to let us out another door and where all the mummies and were sitting in the first door and nobody came out, we were all let go out the second door. I can remember I walked home all by myself. I was five years old. I remember, oh, look, nobody's here to pick me up. Oh, I guess I'll go home. Wow, what a disaster that was. You know, I mean for everybody. But stupid things happen, foolish things happen, unfortunate things happen.

Douglas James Cottrell:

So first thing to sit down and say okay, why am I really angry? Or why am I so disappointed, or why do I have this same habit or this same expectation or this lack of confidence in myself, or I'm so afraid that when I hear a door slam, that just sends a shudder through me. What is it? Now again, a lot of people spend money on therapy, a lot of people talk to their friends, a lot of people have support groups, they have spiritual study groups. And all these different things help. But number one is to say I survived. And if you see it as a survival mechanism, that is to say going through childhood, and somehow you did okay, then you can say all right, the rest is gravy. Now I went through my teenage years. Oh my God, you know. And sometimes the teenage behaviors reflect upon the behaviors and lessons that one had when they were, you know, five and seven years old. So it becomes a perspective. So how do we forgive our parents? How do we forgive those nasty experiences in the schoolyard? How do we look back about the time we were bullied or we got beat up or we were robbed by other kids, somebody stole our lunch or they stole our lunch money. Well, number one, this is life, this is how we are. Humans, affecting humans. Humans as we know humans.

Douglas James Cottrell:

So the sooner you get it in your little teeny, tiny head that, yeah, childhood is a tough time. You don't know what's happening, you're just learning the ropes, so to speak. And so, if you see it that way, you can forgive yourself when you make mistakes. Maybe you went over and you snitched somebody's chocolate bar out of their lunch basket. Maybe you looked over their shoulder and got the answers to a questions on a test, or maybe you just didn't like somebody because you were so jealous of them that you went and did something bad to them. Maybe you told stories on them, and all those things wrapped up in one, you know, is like okay, got it. Yep, I was in the school of hard knocks, and I was only four years old, I was only six years old, I was only eight years old. And so when you see it that way, then you say well, wait a minute, have things changed? No, you're still in the school of hard knocks, in your 30s and your 40s, you know. Every 10 years the lessons get greater or more, let's say, important, but more directly affecting you. You can't oh well, he's only five years old, he didn't mean it, you know, break the window, you know he ought not to have done it. But the point is that as you get older, life gets more serious. But, more importantly, you're not so easily forgiven. Because now, after age seven, the age of reason as it used to be. Remember back in the days when you reached about the age of reason, you went to work. You went to work in slave shops, in child factories and things like that. Thank God that doesn't happen anymore. But back in the day that's what it was. You were seven years old, you went to work. You had to, because everybody had to pull their weight, because everybody was so poor. Not everybody, everybody, but you know what I mean. The average working class family. Sure.

Douglas James Cottrell:

So you survived this time. And as you look at that, then you can say, hey, I did, okay. Matter of fact, the people that come from the most difficult lifetimes, the ones with the most hardships, g uess what? Some of them are the most successful people in the world. That's true. B ob Hope came from a family in New York, the last of nine children and poor as poor could be, and there in his later life he was the toast of presidents. He was a celebrity par none. He was hobnobbing with the rich and famous in America and all over the world. Just goes to show you, you can come from humble, difficult beginnings and you can rise on your own wit and merit, determination and, I guess, experiences of those things that happen to a very high level in society. So is it true I was underprivileged, I couldn't get anywhere? Well, you were underprivileged, that's all you were. Now, what have you done since you're 10 or 14 or 18 or 20? Were you a person who said, well, I don't like this, I'm going to be somebody, I'm going to be that person over there, that successful entrepreneur, or that celebrity.

Douglas James Cottrell:

You see, you have a choice all the way along, Les, and this is the point. You can give up, at any time in your life. Whether you're 5 or 12 or 15 or 20 or 25. You can give up, and then you're just like a cork on the waters. You're just enduring your life. However, you can become the captain of your own ship and say, "I had enough, I'm going to be this." Whether you want to be, let's say, a car mechanic, you want to be a model, you want to be a wedding planner, you want to be an astronaut, you have the ability to choose what you ultimately want to become, and the sooner you make that choice, the much better off you are.

Les Hubert:

Do you think that we should have a curriculum in schools called, kind of like, Life 101, to help people with this, as they go through life, to find out what's going to be the preview of coming attractions, so to speak?

Douglas James Cottrell:

Absolutely. Schools these days should be more like the Japanese schools. They don't have any tests up until, I don't know, senior grammar school. They have more serious times in school. They play and then they have a rest time. Because, to be a child, you're thinking, you're in an environment where all this information is coming to you, no matter where you are in school or not, or at home or wherever you are. You're constantly processing information. So you need to have this time to rest and to play and to explore, to show respect and to be respected. How many times have we heard, "oh, he's only five years old, he doesn't know what he's talking about. Oh, she's only seven years old. You know, she wants to play with dresses and do makeup and be a model. She's just, you know, being a little girl, you know, what does she know?" Well, those are the things that should be nurtured and encouraged. If somebody wants to play with model airplanes, say, hey, he might be an aeronautical engineer in the future. Let's feed what his interests are." because it's not what a set curriculum is of information, testing, did you pass or fail? Right. I can remember kids in grade three who couldn't write because they were dyslexic. For the rest of their life, t hey couldn't spell, they couldn't write and they thought there was something mentally wrong with them, that they were failures. Turned out to be people who invented things and rose to the point of managers in large companies. Because they were able to think with both sides of their brain. They were able to do things beyond an ordinary .

Douglas James Cottrell:

So the idea should we have a curriculum? Yeah, should we have somebody that says listen, mommy and daddy are not as smart as you are. You're smarter than your parents. And that's true in a lot of cases. And if you look at evolution, the children are always more evolved than the parents, because they're the newest generation, if you will. So you say to a child like mommy and daddy aren't as smart as you. Oh yeah, mommy's really smart. No, no, they're not. They know about life, but you're smarter. Or a favorite line of mine is, to say you know, mommy and daddy never went to school to learn how to be mommy and daddy. There's no such thing. Right. They just kind of did it, they're kind of on the job training. And so when they were putting you in bed at eight o'clock at night because somebody in a book said that children should go to bed at eight o'clock and you laid in your bed and you could hear the other kids outside playing for a couple of hours and you got really angry that you were banished to your bed and you were incarcerated in your bedroom and it was a terrible, terrible time. That's because they didn't know any better. And then you can start exploring why people say, ah, now I know my mother was always jealous of me. Oh, my mother told me I was never pretty, no man was ever going to want me, because she was trying to protect me from running around and becoming a teenage mother. And I say that's right. But look what she put in your mind: that you're unattractive, unworthy and you shouldn't have a future husband or family. And now here you are at 25, really angry at mummy and grandmummy and maybe a few aunts in the family who were telling you the same nonsense. Oh, I get it. Why were they doing that? Because they didn't want you to become a teenage mommy. Ding. And the person can then begin the process of forgiving the elder ladies in the family. Now the same as men and boys. To fathers out there, let your son win. You know, when you're wrestling him and you got him on the ground and he's on to-- let him win, and that'll build his self-esteem. Like he's pinned daddy down on the floor. Right. He was only five years of age. So a lot of 101 teaching and explaining what happened to you as a child, now looking back as an adult, not remembering the event as a child, and reliving the emotional experience which is attached. Memory and emotion are always attached. You can go back and you can see: ah, dad just got fired, he lost his best friend in the war or something happened. Now I understand why dad was constantly drinking and depressed for a long, long time. Because life beat him up. Ding.

Douglas James Cottrell:

Then you can begin the process of understanding reason and then forgiveness, and then reflecting back on yourself. And you say, well, look at me, I got a good job. Look at me, dad put a roof over my head, mom and dad provided groceries for me and clothes. Why am I so angry at them that I didn't get to go to the prom? Or I didn't get a car when I was 16 or like all the other kids, blah, blah, blah. So having that in school would be a good start to sort of explain things. Have, sort of, you know, these self-help groups and these conversations. But really it should go back to society and say, okay, we need to have classes on how to be mommy and daddy, because you see, the parents treat the children the same as they were treated. So if they were abused, the abused child becomes the abusive parent that abuses the child. I know that sounds ridiculous, but in my experience and I'm not a psychiatrist or psychologist or anything that knows a lot about that. It seems to be a pattern that repeats. So, yes, there should be some curriculum in school that says: this is how you become a human being. Number one: you are a winner. You are born, you are able and capable, and the world is a level playing field. How much willpower can I teach you? How much encouragement can I get you to be willful, to be self-determining, to be dependent on yourself, to have self-esteem. Not to be egotistical, but to have a good, solid ego so that you'll be able to take-- guess what else is coming-- more knocks and more put downs and more difficulties.

Douglas James Cottrell:

If you go back and you ask just about any famous successful person, they will tell you life is difficult and the secret to life is, every time you get knocked down, you get up, shake it off and say, okay, I won't do that again. I won't trust those people that pretended to be my friends and then robbed me blind. I'll know better next time. Instead of giving up and saying what's the use, people are just going to steal from me. No, they're not. You made a mistake or you were a victim or something happened that can be amended, changed or altered next time. So, yeah, there should be something in school that says this is how you become successful. Number one do not give up. If you want to get to the end of the ride and you're on a roller coaster, if you stay on the ride, you'll get to the end, no matter how many ups and downs and backs and forths to go. But if you get off midterm, you're never going to make it to the end of the ride.

Douglas James Cottrell:

So yo u teach people how to endure, to say I survived. How many times did I make a mistake? 10 times, 12 times? Does it matter, as long as I made the one time that I became successful. And always I can encourage our audience, Les, as we talk about these times on our Wake Up podcast. That's why we chose, the name Wake Up. It's kind of like okay, what am I missing? What am I doing wrong? What is the same thing I'm doing over and over again? Because, as we know, we're doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the definition for insanity.

Douglas James Cottrell:

So let's go down that other field and say okay, what's the one thing I'm avoiding? What's the one thing-- I get to a certain point and I go back and I follow my old habits. What is that one thing? Usually it's the thing you least want to do. It's the thing you avoid doing, and that might simply be going to somebody and saying you owe me money, I want my money. Or it might be going to somebody and saying you promised to do this and you're not doing it. You have to live up to your obligation to me. In other words, you make people follow through on their obligations and by you avoiding it, you're letting them off the hook. You're going to fail. So, being aware of those things and those weaknesses in your character-- however they got there doesn't matter. You're aware of them. Wake up and then you can address them. Again, almost guarantee this for everybody. The least likely thing you wanted to do, the thing you're avoiding, get on it right away. Nobody's going to do it for you, because you have to have this thing called duty, and if it's your duty-- your responsibility, you can give to somebody else, but your duty you cannot. So should we have this taught in school? Absolutely. We'd put an awful lot of self-help authors out of business! Motivational thinkers, we wouldn't need them anymore. We'd have a community of successful free thinkers. What would that be like? Oh my gosh, wonderful actually.

Les Hubert:

That's like the famous Buddhist saying that comes to mind is you know, if you truly loved yourself, you can really hurt no one. One of the questions I have is that, again from our listeners, is that there seems to be some kind of a quandary between grandparents and parents. I remember as a kid, you know, I love my grandfather dearly and he was a good man, but he sometimes he could be a little upset with me because I would be rambunctious, and I remember one day he basically spanked my bottom. I was about five years old, six years old, and I went to my mom and I said, mom, you know, grandpa spanked me and she goes well, you're luckier than I was because he used to beat me with a belt. And I'm going-- so why-- and later on I'm thinking, why is it he was so much easier on me and tough on my mom? Is it because they've learned? Or is it because I wasn't his birth child, I was his grandchild?

Douglas James Cottrell:

Nah, he was just older. He couldn't swing the belt anymore. It was too heavy. Yes, he learned, and he learned by regret. You know again, there's a certain philosophy that says if you're going to admonish your children, go count to 10 someplace else. Never, ever, when you're angry, discipline your children, because you'll overdo it. You know, like it doesn't hurt enough. You shouldn't have broke that window, whack, whack. You shouldn't. It cost $10. Instead of saying listen, I realized it was an accident. You shouldn't have been throwing the baseball around the front of the house. Look what happened to the window. Don't do that next time. And, by the way, we're going to take money out of your allowance or you're going to have to go and pay for that somehow. Go figure it out.

Douglas James Cottrell:

So why do grandparents, you know, lessen the punishment? The corporal punishment we're talking about, never mind the mental and emotional punishments, which can be more severe than corporal punishment. The idea is that grandparents usually don't get angry, so they usually are more tolerant. And then, of course, they always remember the golden rule: I'm going home for supper, I don't have to stay here with the kids, I've had enough. The golden rule for grandparents is they're your kids. Nice for a visit. Adios.

Douglas James Cottrell:

But in answering the question more seriously is grandparents learn. They know through regret and guilt their own guilt that they have done things that they ought not to have done. In other words, on the job training. They learned that on that particular day or instance they went too far, they made a gigantic mistake. And sometimes you know, when the parents do that to their children, the children never talk to them anymore, they leave, they run away, never come back. And so that's a severe situation. It's a possibility, but that comes from not just that one instance, but a lot of things, a lot of experiences. So you know, just like everything else, Les, to answer your question, the more experience you get, the better you get at delivering the experiences or better at parenting.

Douglas James Cottrell:

It's unfortunate that these things happen, but if you have built in, you know, like everybody in the family, right. The kids are little and you say, hey family meeting. What's that all about? Well, we're going to buy a car. Wow. Mommy and daddy have decided to buy a car. Not daddy, not mommy, but mommy and daddy have decided that we need a car for us, the family. Oh boy, what would you like? I'd like a pink car, daddy, I'd like a truck. Wow, hmm, that sounds interesting. Yeah, I'd like one of those ones with the curly, flippy, floppy thing on the top. What's that like? Oh, he's got a toy like that. Oh, I see.

Douglas James Cottrell:

So you get the family together and you have this discussion and the parents know exactly what they're going to afford, buy, whatever, but they include the kids so that it's not a big surprise. It's like okay, we're going to have this vehicle and we're going to take you to school whatever. And so you embellish that thought and, as parents, you include the kids in all the major family decisions. Like it's time that we got a new house. This one's all worn out. Matter of fact, I'd like that new house to be in those tall buildings where there's lots of little houses inside. You know they have apartments there and I think we need one of those. Not, we can't afford the house anymore. We have to move to a small, dumpy apartment. It's like how you present it to the children. Kids are not stupid, they're pretty smart. And so they get to the apartment, which is a whole lot smaller than the house, and say well, this is your room, and I know it's half the size of what you used to have, but we have this wonderful new place and we have to go up and down in the elevator now and, oh my gosh, we don't have the backyard, but we got this wonderful park nearby.

Douglas James Cottrell:

As you nurture the children, realizing they're intelligent, what are you doing? You're taking the trauma away from them of transition, of the difficulties in life that otherwise you would be, as a parent, you know, kind of thoughtless. Okay, we're moving, we're going to move across town and you're going to have to go to a new school and you'll get some new friends, never mind about your old ones. No, you don't want to forget about your old friends. They're dear and near. So you may be plan the school, changing the apartments at the summertime or between holidays, and you keep the lines of communication open up between your children and your old friends. But it takes a little planning.

Douglas James Cottrell:

So when grandpa comes by and he's a little cranky, mommy shouldn't say well, you got off a lot easier than I did. Your grandfather was a brute, he beat me with a belt. She should say, just a minute, come along with us. Papa, why did you spank Les? Well, because he spilled his milk. Well, I know, but maybe we should have just realized he made a mistake, don't you think so, Papa? And now mommy's sticking up for Les. Not Papa's a-- Grandpa's a brute that beat me. I'm never, never going to forget for the rest of my life.

Douglas James Cottrell:

So again, those childhood traumas, parents need to pay attention. It's not like, oh, don't worry about it, you'll be okay. Oh, that person's a bully at school. No, you go to school, you take the kid with you and you say, hey, mr Principal, My son was bullied here. So if nothing happens, which usually is the case, at least the child sees that mommy or daddy's sticking up for them at school. Put yourself in the child's position and not try to discount it with-- you know you don't want to engage it. It's going to take too much time. You know the two kids are fighting. Oh, just stop it. You know. Find out why are you fighting. Take some time. That's how you prevent possible trauma. But I mean, you know, did you ever go to grandpa later on and say remember when I was six years old and you spank? I never forgot that. Let's see what he says.

Les Hubert:

You touched upon cycles of every 10 years, that the lessons kind of repeat themselves. Can you touch upon that?

Douglas James Cottrell:

Yeah, I mean you don't have to be any kind of astrologer, numerologist or thinker of any start, just like from age one to 10. 10 year cycle. Then from 10 to 20, 20 to 30, 30 to 40, 40 to 50. So that 10 year cycle, you know, in the first 10 years you're learning about how to be a kid. You're migrating from 10 to 20 and how to be a teenager and puberty and things that go on with driving and high school. And then from 20 to 30, you're dealing with relationships. You know people, friends, maybe getting a career started, maybe higher education. And then about 30, you start to think about either family or buying a house or getting a more important job or getting rich. And then about 40, you really really start thinking about finances and how to be richer and getting out of debt and maybe traveling and saying I haven't done anything for a while. And then from 50 to 60, you kind of coast. You know 50s is not so bad. You go on the cruises, you go on vacations and then you have to deal with people who you know, who have passed away. Some of your friends are sick. You're dealing with some of the trauma of financial disasters or difficulties with people you know, more serious ones. And maybe you get to be a grandparent in your 60s. It's kind of an easier time, but now you've got more disease and difficulties and stiffness and disappointments. Maybe your spouse passes away and you're starting to think of retirement. Oh my God, how am I going to make a living? And then by 70s you start to think, well, how much time have I got left. You know, and what didn't I do? And you start having regrets and you try to make up and maybe have a new time in life and you start thinking about God and spirituality, because you know the big step's just around the corner. And maybe how long have you got when you're in your 80s? One more year, one more year every 81, I got one more year at 82. And then by the time you're 90, you kind of say, what was I worried about? You know, hey, I'm out of here soon, so it hurts so much. You know my back hurts, etc.

Douglas James Cottrell:

And so you have your grandkids coming along in your 60s or so or 70s and they give you joy and wonderful things. You start to retire at that time and so that's a whole new life. And then maybe you go to a hospital or someplace a nursing home in your 60s or 70s, and that's a whole other new life. So I'm just trying to throw out these things off the top of my head to say that every 10 years there's a major lesson and a major experience in life.

Douglas James Cottrell:

And certainly when you're 30 years of age and you look back when you're 9 or 10, the things that were really, really important to you back then, you don't even think about anymore. Bicycle or tricycle? You don't even know where it is. When you were a teenage years and maybe you had a girlfriend or you had your first car. By the time you're 40 or 50, you don't even remember that. But at the time the 10-year period is most important. So if you plan out 10 years and look at them as cycles-- and I just briefly touched upon these things-- then you can see that every 10 years has a major lesson, privilege, life to live. It also has challenges, things to learn and experiences to have. And if you can juggle those, if you can come to understanding, then you can plan your life a little bit. And you should plan your life. One thing in life you should become expert at: you should have one goal for every 10 years. And if you have something like that, you'll know where you're going, instead of being 45 years of age and saying, I don't like where I am, I don't like my relationship, I should have a better vehicle, I should have traveled more, I should have more money in my 401k or I should have something instead of like what have I got? Bunch of debts, bunch of stuff on my credit card that I don't even know why I bought it.

Douglas James Cottrell:

So I know I'm just skimming the surface here, my friends. Wherever you are, listening to the Wake Up, do a little more research and you will be wise if you can pick one path in life that you become expert at. Find out what people want or need and then figure out a how to to supply it or give it to them, and you'll be rich. And then you learn to love it and you'll have a wonderful career. But if you try three or four or five things, how many directions can you go in at one time? Only one, but if you keep changing directions, you're just going in a big circle.

Douglas James Cottrell:

So those 10-year cycles, Les. If you kind of look at it that way and, believe me, you have to be wise in your early years to say like this is how life really is, instead, that's not going to happen to me, that's never going to happen to me. Well, it will. Life is so predictable. But you need to get older to look back to see, yep, those old fellows that told me that was going to happen, they were absolutely right and I thought I knew it all. Oh my gosh. So the wisest person of all looks to people and plans their life in sort of a general way and then tries to be the most successful they can at any one particular path in life. You can always change paths. You want to be an astronaut and you'll get to be 25 years old and you go like, oh my God, I keep getting air sickness or I'm afraid of heights. Well, I guess let's be an aeronautical engineer and not necessarily a pilot or an astronaut. So anyway, Les, go ahead.

Les Hubert:

Well, thank you, Doug, for a great podcast. Shout out to Joan and Eddie for your support for the show. Thank you very much. And for the people out there listening to the Wake Up, if you want to support our show, please go to DouglasJamesCottrell. com. You can click on that big blue banner to subscribe and we will be seeing you in the future. Again, thank you, Doug, for a great podcast.

Douglas James Cottrell:

It's a pleasure, good to be with you.

Announcer:

Thank you very much for listening to Wake Up. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe so you'll be notified when a new episode is posted, and we'd greatly appreciate your review of our show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts to let others know about the great content we're producing. For more about Dr Douglas' self-development classes, books and other related products, please visit his website douglasjamescottrell. com. Until next time, we wish you all of God's blessings health, wealth and peace of mind.