The first two openly gay Anchorage Assembly members, vice-chair Christopher Constant and former chair Felix Rivera, talk about their experiences growing up, what their lives were like in Anchorage prior to politics, and what their lives have been like since joining the Assembly in 2017; we also discuss conflict with the mayor's office. This interview was recorded on Friday, January 28, 2022.
The first two openly gay Anchorage Assembly members, vice-chair Christopher Constant and former chair Felix Rivera, talk about their experiences growing up, what their lives were like in Anchorage prior to politics, and what their lives have been like since joining the Assembly in 2017; we also discuss conflict with the mayor's office. This interview was recorded on Friday, January 28, 2022.
Andrew Gray:
So Felix Rivera, Christopher Constant, welcome to the podcast.
Christopher Constant (00:17):
Good morning.
Felix Rivera (00:17):
Yeah. Good morning.
Andrew Gray (00:19):
So I wanted to start off with Felix. You are originally from San Antonio, Texas.
Felix Rivera (00:25):
Yeah.
Andrew Gray (00:25):
And that is by Alaskan standards an enormous city. Can you talk about growing up in San Antonio and what that experience was like?
Felix Rivera (00:34):
Yeah. So San Antonio at the time when I was growing up there, yes, big city, but it really had this small town feel. And I really loved growing up there. I felt like it was a fairly progressive community and it was a place where I was challenged. Texas is a big state and we're big into competition, right? Like you have to win competitions. It's just a modality in Texas, it's how we think as Texans, and I still carry that part of me. And so I would be involved in all kinds of competitions from entomology, which is the science and study of bugs, to academic competitions, to competitions with my music. I played viola growing up. So, it was a place where I learned to be competitive. And that's where I got that sort of stride.
Andrew Gray (01:40):
Entomology competitions.
Felix Rivera (01:43):
Yeah.
Andrew Gray (01:43):
Can you talk about... Was that in grade school or when did you get into bug competition?
Felix Rivera (01:49):
Yeah, that was in high school when I got into bug competitions, bugs and insects. And so there is Future Farmers of America. That was a program that I was enrolled in, in my high school, and that's when I got involved in the study of bugs. And basically it's this competition where you go around and you have to properly identify a series of bugs and insects, and whoever correctly identifies the most wins. And it could be tricky because the insect world, they try to copy each other. And so some insects and bugs, you thought were this aren't that. And I fell in love with it, I think partly because I was just really good at it. It was partly rote memorization and partly trying to see the deception and tricks and things. And one of the funny stories in that, one of the awards that I got for winning a competition at Texas Tech was I got this colony of Madagascar hissing cockroaches. And so the look on my mom's face when I brought those back and say, "Hey, mom, look what I got." She loved it, not.
Andrew Gray (03:01):
So, Lubbock, so you traveled around Texas.
Felix Rivera (03:04):
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Andrew Gray (03:04):
I'm from Texas. I'll say I do know that we have a lot of bugs there, not as many bugs in Alaska. Were you escaping the bugs?
Felix Rivera (03:15):
The reason that I came up to Alaska sort of on paper was to go to study at Alaska Pacific University. But I think a big part was just to explore and find myself. One of the things about growing up in Texas is I couldn't be myself as much as I wanted to be. I actually tried coming out in high school and had to go back into the closet, because it was just such a nasty and negative experience even in a progressive city like San Antonio. And so I needed to go somewhere where I could explore. And Alaska's the place to do that?
Andrew Gray (03:53):
Was your family a conservative or progressive family? I mean, how would you describe the politics of the family?
Felix Rivera (03:59):
Yeah. My mom is a registered Democrat, but I think when I was growing up, I think they were much more conservative. And when I came out, it wasn't until I moved up here that I actually came out. But when I came out, my dad, he knew, right? He wasn't surprised by it. But my mom, she was shocked. Which is sort of weird because if you think about it, my mom and I's thing was we would watch a lot of telenovelas, which are soap operas in Spanish. And so me now I'm like, "Why didn't I know? Like duh, obvious." And my mom like, "Hello." But it was just our thing, we loved doing that.
Felix Rivera (04:46):
And I remember one time during the telenovelas we were watching commercial break. And there was this commercial for tattoos. And my mom was like, "I don't know why people would want to get tattoos. That's so strange changing the body that God gave you. But Felix, if you want to get tattoos, feel free to do that. The only thing though that you can't do, that you can't be is gay." And I thought it was like a really random remark.
Andrew Gray (05:15):
How old were you then?
Felix Rivera (05:15):
I was at the time in high school, so I was probably 15, 16.
Andrew Gray (05:19):
And are you from a Mexican family?
Felix Rivera (05:23):
Puerto Rican.
Andrew Gray (05:23):
Puerto Rican. And did you go to church a lot? I mean were you all-
Felix Rivera (05:28):
Oh yeah. Catholic church all the way. A cradle baby, for sure.
Andrew Gray (05:34):
Got you. So how is your family now?
Felix Rivera (05:37):
Yeah. Now, they're totally accepting of it and I think there are still parts of it that they probably don't understand and they may never understand just because of the way that they grew up is just totally different. But no, they're accepting of it and it's not too much of a conversation anymore. They get it. It's my life.
Andrew Gray (05:57):
Roger. Okay. Christopher Constant.
Christopher Constant (06:00):
Good morning.
Andrew Gray (06:01):
Morning. So same question. Where did you grow up? What was your life like growing up?
Christopher Constant (06:08):
I was born in the small town called Santa Maria, California, raised on what's called the Central Coast of California, which is a very lovely part of the state. It's kind of smacked out between LA and San Francisco on the coast, tucked inside of a mountain range. The kind of way the environment is around there, they say it's green when the rest of the world is white, and brown when the rest of the world is green. It's a beautiful place. Hearst build his castle on the mountains there.
Christopher Constant (06:37):
It was at the time a very small town, 25,000 people back in the '70s, and it has actually grown now to be the largest city between LA and San Francisco, which is interesting. And it was a farming community. It's now a wine community with some farming. That meant that my community was very diverse because you had migrant workers coming up from Mexico and who had been there forever, but were still in the migrant farm working world.
Christopher Constant (07:07):
And actually it's one of the fondest memories I have going back there now, it is people are still working the land. Unlike much of California, people are still there, which is a lovely thing. For my part, I went to a high school where... There were three high schools, now there are four in that town, and they were divided by... The school I went to, which was a primarily Mexican school. There was the kind of poor white people school. And then there was the private Catholic school where the rich kids went. And so I had the benefit of graduating from a class of 400, where 20 of us were native English speakers and everyone else was something else. And that really was a valuable lesson for the rest of my life. One of my sociology mates in college called it, "Oh you were the dot in the sea." Yeah, that's how it was for me, which taught me a lot about how to be a member of a community.
Christopher Constant (08:06):
The issue of coming out, it's a funny and interesting one for me, I think. My grandmother, when I was 15, I was over for dinner alone with her and she asked me, "Honey, are you gay?" And in my mind, I just thought I could lie or I could tell the truth. I for a second panicked and I decided I'm going to tell the truth. So I told her, "Yes, I'm gay." At 15. Now my parents divorced when I was two, so 13 years had passed since my grandmother had talked to my father. That day she called every member of my family and told them I was gay, and including him, which was probably a very joyful experience for her to be able to tell him that. And so immediately banded off, my family was all on the same page.
Christopher Constant (08:53):
My dad didn't like it, my mom didn't understand it, my sisters were like, "Whatever." So that started early for me. And my youth and when I came out between when I was about 15 and 18 was literally the peak of the AIDS crisis. And 218 miles to the south of me everybody was dying and 218 miles to the north of me everybody was dying. And that experience went all the way through college with me until I graduated, basically. In the middle of my college experience, about 1994, the therapeutics started to emerge and the world started to change, but I had inside of myself been very much in a defensive mode. I was going to survive. And even though I was gay, I was not being gay. I was just being me and not having sex, kind of trying to stay alive, which is a very strange phenomenon except for when as a young person the urges take over and you have to, and it's scary.
Christopher Constant (09:48):
But on a different topic, everyone always asks me how I get my start in politics and in service. And I laugh because I did not do bug class or camp. I didn't do FFA. I did leadership camp in high school and I served with an organization called, the California Association of Student Councils. It's like a statewide association of 18 regions of high school leadership that come together for summer camps and then plot policy changes and work hard to ensure they... When I was in the group, we fought and got elected through the law of a youth member to the state school board. And we have that here as an advisory position. But think about it in California, it's a much bigger challenge, millions and millions of people. So another factor feature of my youth, my grandfather was an engineer for Martin Marietta and for Lockheed Martin.
Christopher Constant (10:48):
And we were all part of the shuttle program at the time, and the whole plan was to move the shuttle program to California, to the Western launch pad at Vandenberg Air Force Base. And so my life was actually leading me into that environment at the time, but then the shuttle blew up and it totally destroyed the economy of my town, which was just preparing to become the place where all of that work was going to center out of. And so that kind of took me off the pin of my life, where am I going to go? And then kind of oddly discovered the Grateful Dead. And with my friends, we went on a kind of adventure to the Bay Area. I saw this music, fell in love and then turned into a vagabond, and crisscrossed the country hitchhiking and ended up in Maine, had great several summers out there and realized I had a wanderlust.
Christopher Constant (11:39):
And that wanderlust for several years brought me to Alaska. And when I came up for the holidays, actually in 1995, I came back to fish that summer, college, trying to make some money. And I was one of those people who spent $2,000 to get here and get set up. And it was a bust. I earned $1,000. And so I spent money to come to Alaska to fish, I didn't make money. But still it bit me and I was hooked. And so two years later on graduation, I went to D.C. for a little while, came up for Christmas because I have family here, and the airline I came up on went bankrupt, it was Western Pacific Airlines. And I should have known something was up because we flew through Denver. And so D.C.-Denver-Anchorage.
Christopher Constant (12:26):
And when I'm pulling out of the gate in Denver to the last flight up to Anchorage, right next to me is this yellow plane that has the Simpsons family painted on it. And so as I'm pulling out, there's Bart Simpson, 15 feet tall staring at me. And this was many years before the Simpsons movie came to Alaska. And so I got here, the airline went bankrupt, and Alaska put a claim on me that has never let go.
Andrew Gray (12:51):
Two quick questions. So was it your maternal grandmother that called your father to tell him that you were gay?
Christopher Constant (12:57):
Yes.
Andrew Gray (12:57):
And I want to just explore that whole idea of you coming out at a time when gay men were dying of AIDS everywhere.
Christopher Constant (13:06):
Yep.
Andrew Gray (13:07):
We're from relatively similar generation. And I know that for me, when I came out, what everyone's kind of go-to thing was like crying because they thought I was going to die.
Christopher Constant (13:19):
Right.
Andrew Gray (13:19):
That I was just basically saying that there was a death sentence.
Christopher Constant (13:23):
Yep.
Andrew Gray (13:24):
So that was similar for you?
Christopher Constant (13:26):
Absolutely. I mean, I can recall the first week when the weekly paper in San Francisco didn't have an obituary, when there were hundreds of them at one time, right? There were years where the obituary pages were all AIDS victims. My peer group dying or the elders who I would look up to dying. And so absolutely that was the time.
Andrew Gray (13:52):
But I feel like there's a hangover. So Felix, even though you're much younger than us, did you experience any of that with coming out with people thinking like, "Oh, you're going to die of AIDS"?
Felix Rivera (14:04):
No, not at all. Most of what I experienced when I first came out in high school was people thought my soul was going to be damned to hell, right? That was that experience. Up here when I came out in Alaska, most people were very supportive and they were like, "Yeah, cool. That's your thing? Then fine." What prior generations have faced when they came out, I just don't think it exists today.
Andrew Gray (14:43):
So talk about that. Talk about, you came up to go to APU and what were you going to study there?
Felix Rivera (14:49):
So I originally came up to study marine biology and then ended up switching to a degree in liberal studies with a focus on journalism.
Andrew Gray (14:57):
And did you find Anchorage to be an accepting place for you?
Felix Rivera (15:02):
I did. Yeah. You know, it was a...
PART 1 OF 4 ENDS [00:15:04]
Andrew Gray (15:00):
Courage to be an accepting place for you?
Felix Rivera (15:02):
I did. Yeah. You know, it was a community where I felt like I was invited in. I was invited to join the club and to get involved and to take leadership roles. And it was a place where I felt seen, I think for the first time. In Texas you had to work so hard just to get noticed because there's so many people in Texas. Here, a much smaller population base. It's just much easier to get integrated and get involved in the community.
Andrew Gray (15:35):
And what year did you move here?
Felix Rivera (15:37):
Moved here in 2008. That's when I started Alaska Pacific.
Andrew Gray (15:39):
Gotcha. And then, so Christopher, you came in 19...
Christopher Constant (15:46):
1997.
Andrew Gray (15:46):
Right? How did you experience the gay community in Anchorage in '97?
Christopher Constant (15:50):
That's funny. It was that Christmas, my sisters and I went to the mall here at the Fifth Avenue mall and on a lark, we decided to get a picture with Santa Claus. And Santa Claus looks at me and says, "Here, sit on my lap. Would you like a candy cane?" And it was outrageously flirtatious. And my sisters looked at him and looked at me and it was amazing. And there were a couple of gay bars and there were lots of places to go.
Andrew Gray (16:19):
Because we had The Wave, then. We had a gay club.
Christopher Constant (16:24):
We actually had The Wave, and it was a great place to go. I met a lot of amazing people in that space. And now we have, of course, Merna's, which evolved out of that. And there's been a long story there. But I did find it welcoming. And in fact, in some ways it helped me here to come to peace with all of the internalized homophobia that I had, and the homophobia being fear about my health and my life and all of the judgment and all of the things that we all carry, conscious or not. And while yes, it is different for kids these days. I think those issues are still real and pervasive in the community, because kids still feel the need to come out. One of my missions in life is to end the need to come out.
Christopher Constant (17:01):
Why do we have to have this ritual? But it's still very real when I talk to kids, but there's a lot more fluidity and flexibility and kids can just choose to be themselves without as much judgment, which is wonderful because there's lots of more self expression, which I think is pretty important. And I want to put a pin in, we can talk about this in a bit, but how my experience with living through the AIDS pandemic informed my decision making in the current age that we're living in. But before we go there, I want to say in 2008, when Felix moved here, that's when we met because he joined Spectrum. Spectrum was the club at APU. My roommate at the time was Ben and he was part of Spectrum. And so our association began all that way back then through that club, through a guy that lived in my house, a friend, a mutual friend. So we've been friends since pretty much he got here.
Andrew Gray (17:55):
Cool. So Santa Maria doesn't have a gay bar or does it?
Christopher Constant (18:00):
It did at one point, but no, it does not.
Andrew Gray (18:03):
So did you drive to San Francisco or how did you explore gayness prior to Anchorage growing up in a place without a gay bar?
Christopher Constant (18:15):
So San Luis Obispo, interestingly, it never really had a gay bar, but it had gay nights. And we all knew when those nights were. And kids, these were 18 and under and 18 over clubs, not just 21, and there was this lovely, lovely street scene on Garden Street in San Luis Obispo in front of a cafe called Linea's, and still to this day, a number of us are associated through that place. And we made space for ourselves in the streets. We were not going to be unheard. And there were goth kids and ska kids and queer kids and hippies, and it was all happening on the street. It was an outrageous and beautiful scene. It was an absolute resistance to the buttoned up and horribly tight culture of the Reagan era and how there was this demand for conformity.
Christopher Constant (19:05):
We were not conformists and there was no way they were going to make us be conformist. Friends getting arrested for sitting on the sidewalk, much like what you see here with the homeless conversation, but these are just kids being kids. And so that's where I really explored it. But yes, of course I did drive up to the of Bay Area and down to LA and San Diego where there were vibrant communities of people. And that's where I had my first experience with real strong gay community, because my experience on Garden Street was, it was a community, but it was a community of misfits, which have long held dear to my heart, because I'm deeply a misfit. And so with that in mind, I did have to go to the Bay to find it, but then I realized, and now with the modern era, it's no longer like that. You don't have to be in enclaves because we're everywhere and we're connected and we are no longer forced into the shadows.
Andrew Gray (19:58):
So did you go out in San Antonio, Felix? Prior to moving to Anchorage, had you gone to a gay bar?
Felix Rivera (20:06):
No. And interestingly enough, so I went back to Texas for the first time in a long time for Christmas and New Year's just this last Christmas and New Year's. And I struggled with the idea of should I explore gay San Antonio or not? And I think in the end, I decided not to. This was a foundational place for me, but there's still a negative sting and experience there that happened when I tried to come out. And the first thing I did when I tried to come out was I called my best friend. And his response was, "You should come to my church for conversion therapy." Even though he didn't say that, that's what he meant. And I actually went to my mom and I said, "Hey, can I go to my friend's church?" And she was like, " Hell no. As long as you're being raised in this house, you're going to a Catholic church, that's it." And so that negative experience still lives with me. And so I don't know if I want to explore gay San Antonio.
Andrew Gray (21:14):
So just to be clear, your mom was opposed to you going to a different church. She wasn't necessarily opposed to conversion therapy because she wasn't supportive of... Or had she already evolved?
Felix Rivera (21:24):
No, she hadn't evolved by then, but I didn't come out to my parents until I came out in college.
Andrew Gray (21:29):
Right.
Felix Rivera (21:29):
Yeah.
Andrew Gray (21:30):
So this was before.
Felix Rivera (21:30):
Yeah.
Christopher Constant (21:31):
I've been to gay San Antonio.
Andrew Gray (21:33):
Yeah?
Christopher Constant (21:33):
So it actually is very charming. There are about three or four gay bars that are really popular there. And yeah, I went down for a conference not too long ago, several years now, but not too long. And it was a vibrant community, very gracious people, lovely clubs, higher order of magnitude than anything we've ever seen here.
Andrew Gray (21:54):
Well, I graduated from UT Austin and so I'm like, come to Austin. Forget San Antonio. So let's move it to assembly. So former assembly chair, current vice chair. Can you both, we'll start with Felix, but talk a little bit about what your experience has been like as a politician in Anchorage and how that differed from your experience prior?
Felix Rivera (22:25):
Yeah, for sure. I'll just start really quickly with the prior stuff. So for me, prior it was really politics, was the game that I was in. It's where I worked, I managed campaigns, worked on campaigns from the congressional level down to the school board level.
Andrew Gray (22:43):
And were you doing that in college or was that your first job after college?
Felix Rivera (22:45):
It was first job after college. Yeah. In college, I volunteered on a campaign, but that's as far as I went. So that was sort of my chosen and career path after I graduated. And that's sort of one side coin, is getting elected, and then the other side of the coin is what you do when you get elected. And so that was a totally different experience for me when I finally did get elected. I got a little bit of wisdom and experience serving in the mayor's office. After I helped Ethan Berkowitz get elected, I got a job that office. It was a low level job, but it was still a job that allowed me to learn about the municipality, the going ons. And I got to get a lot of good experience in a few specific issue areas.
Felix Rivera (23:34):
So finally get elected. And now it's a totally different ballgame, because everyone wants your time, wants your attention. And there's just all of these multitude of areas that you have to learn about, be experienced in, and just the amount of reading the amount of just going through and okay, I don't get this, what do I have to do to understand this? Oh, I have to read all of this to understand this one little specific area of the municipality. And there's all of these other areas in the municipality. And it's just amazing how complex local government is. And so for me, in the middle of all of that, and I was really excited when I first got elected, still am excited, but I think there's nothing like getting first selected and being like, okay, let's get to work.
Andrew Gray (24:27):
2017.
Felix Rivera (24:28):
2017. Yeah. And so I was really getting to work and then got a promotion in my job. And then this thing that I think a lot of elected officials have to deal with, which is this work life balance. And when you say that to a lot of elected officials, they just laugh in your face. Because what balance? There is no work life balance. You're just trying to struggle and survive day to day with everything.
Andrew Gray (24:53):
So you still have a day job that's separate?
Felix Rivera (24:55):
No.
Andrew Gray (24:55):
No. Okay.
Felix Rivera (24:56):
I had to quit that in 2019 because things were getting too crazy, too hectic.
Andrew Gray (25:04):
So 2019, can you talk about 2019?
Felix Rivera (25:06):
Yeah. So 2019 was when I first became chair and that's when I think I really hit my stride as an assembly member, because prior to that, I had tried to focus in and in a few different niche areas and found my home in some places. But I think as chair, that's when I was like, okay, let's really get going. And that's when I started really... Can I curse a little bit?
Andrew Gray (25:27):
Yes.
Felix Rivera (25:27):
Okay. That's when I really started kicking ass, taking names, doing what I was really passionate about. And for me, what I think was important for me at the time being chair, was this idea of coequal branches of government. That idea had been just dug in the grave because of a strong mayor form of government, and I was intent on resurrecting that life and seeing if we could get back to coequal branches of government. And so that was my mission.
Andrew Gray (25:57):
Even though Berkowitz was mayor at the time.
Felix Rivera (26:01):
Oh yeah.
Andrew Gray (26:01):
And so you felt like there was too much mayor power, even if you'd worked with Berkowitz before.
Felix Rivera (26:07):
Yeah. For sure. The assembly worked very well with Berkowitz, but I think what a lot of people don't realize because they think, oh, we're all on the same side. So we all get along. They don't realize the little instances and times where we didn't necessarily get along, where we had different ideas and where we really needed to come find a way to get to the table and find some collaborative path forward. It was a lot different than working, of course, with an administration that's 180 degrees opposite from you, but still, there were these difficult is where it's like, okay, come on now. Respect the assembly, Ethan.
Christopher Constant (26:42):
I would disagree with you saying these little disagreements. There were all kinds of disagreements, big and small, about how we should proceed on any given question. I fought with them a lot, because sometimes you really had to push them to get them to do the right thing. What I think was the right thing or the body thought was the right thing. And so that's one of the interesting things about it, with the difference that we have now.
Andrew Gray (27:05):
And what year did you?
Christopher Constant (27:06):
Same year, same day. We went from zero to two queers in one day and then, and we got to our third, and so we're halfway to our majority, but I think there's actually maybe one or two that are kind of not yet quite open about things. And so I think we actually are much closer to halfway to our majority.
Andrew Gray (27:23):
So I'll just say for listeners that the third member, Austin Quinn Davidson, was supposed to be here today. She's going to be on the podcast. So I wasn't just male gay only.
Christopher Constant (27:34):
And I also want to speak to one of the lessons I had from the pandemic, this idea of work life balance. I now truly reject it. I flip it. It must be the life work balance. We have forever given over to this idea that work is the dominant principle in our lives. And I dispute that, even though I work three jobs, I am always busy. I make my home life the first priority. And that's one of my evangelical missions since the pandemic. I've been drilling this into our clerk staff, I've been drilling this everywhere people will listen that we have to reframe how we think. If the pandemic taught us one thing, work is not the center of our lives. It's our homes and where we keep our families. We still have to pay the bills and keep the lights on. And for those of us with a mission, we still have to meet our mission.
Christopher Constant (28:22):
But the fact is your life has to be first. And we have, as a society, completely gotten it out of perspective. And this idea of work life balance, which was an effort to tell people, "Hey, get balance in your life," maintains the priority of your work life as number one. And I can tell you I love my work in all of its facets, but I would give it all up to keep my home, my family and the people I care for centered and safe. And so to me, I just want to throw that in there.
Andrew Gray (28:50):
What are your jobs?
Christopher Constant (28:51):
So I have a real estate license. It's currently in referral status because there's just not a lot of time, but I make a bit of income from that. And then I serve at Aquila where for 10 years, going on 11 now, I've served as what's now called the director of strategic growth. I help to write proposals, deliver reports, make sure money's coming in and smooth over relations with the funding entities that exist. And then I serve on the assembly. So that's the work that I do.
Andrew Gray (29:17):
And when you guys met in 2008, I mean, have y'all guys talked about, did you ever think that you'd be going on to the assembly at the same time and did you imagine that this would be the day?
Felix Rivera (29:33):
No, not for me. I sort of knew that there was going to be a trajectory where I might serve in office one day, but for me it was like, maybe in my mid thirties, late thirties. That's when I would decide I'm ready. It was all for me about, okay, I got to get myself ready. I got to build up my resume. All the sort of traditional stuff that people think about and people do. And so for me, when the calling came, when I was asked, I was like, " Whoa, I'm not ready for this, but I'm so glad that I eventually did say yes."
PART 2 OF 4 ENDS [00:30:04]
Felix Rivera (30:00):
Whoa, I'm not ready for this, but I'm so glad that I eventually did say yes.
Christopher Constant (30:03):
And for me in 2008, 2009, it was a pretty important year. We had a major economic calamity in 2007, 2008. I had lost a job just before that, and had been basically unemployable, working on contract, and struggling as one of the economic targets of that whole economic crisis. I was just right in the sweet spot. And so, I lost almost everything.
Christopher Constant (30:28):
And I had been a bit depressed about it all. And I was on a walk in a dog park, actually, when I realized I was going to think about serving. But before I could do that, I had to do something, and I didn't think about it, like I must do something to run. I was looking for ways to make my life better. And I looked around, and there was a park in my neighborhood, and I was tired of driving four miles to get to this dog park over here, which was overused, because there were two of them. And everyone in Anchorage was taking their dogs to this or that park. We have high dog ownership.
Christopher Constant (30:58):
And so, I set out to get a park in my neighborhood that I could walk my dogs too, and let them off the leash and play. And little did I know at the time, that getting a dog park in your neighborhood could be more difficult than winning a seat on the assembly. Because I asked the Parks Department, "How do I do this?" And my friend, Holly [inaudible 00:31:17] this is when we met. She said, "This is what you have to do. You have to go to your community councils, get their input, and figure out how they're going to support this with you. If they are, then you go to the Parks and Recommission, and you get their permission. Then you go to the assembly, because this will have to be a dedicated use for that park." And why was that park ideal? Nobody uses it, except there were homeless people that were encamped in it. And in fact two women, that summer when I started this project, drank themselves to death in that park.
Christopher Constant (31:45):
And so, I sat out on this campaign, I worked door to door neighbor to neighbor, community council to community council. Got my community council's support, Fairview. I was four lots into Fairview. So, right on the border of Fairview and South Addition. So, Fairview supported it. But the park was actually in South Addition, the closest park to my house, and this park where all this trouble was at. And in South Addition, if you know that neighborhood, they have a particular view of how the world should be. And there are some members of that neighborhood, who are going to fight like hell to keep it the way that it is.
Christopher Constant (32:14):
And so, I started that campaign, and organized the community, and we ended up having almost 150 people show up to community council meeting at the Senior Center. And while I watched them cheat, double counting some people. And the chair at the time brought a three foot long claw hammer for a gavel. It was something I never could have imagined seeing, but I did. The vote was like 105, yes, to a 109 nos. No. 55 yes, to 59, nos.
Andrew Gray (32:48):
Right. Really close.
Christopher Constant (32:50):
Yeah. It was really close. And I lost. But again, I watched them cheat. But you realize at that point that you're not going to want to move a project that's going to divide a community in that way. If that's the division, then you need to step back and figure out a better plan, because you don't want to turn neighbors against neighbors.
Christopher Constant (33:07):
Anyhow. So that process though, in that moment that I realized, what am I really fighting for here? What's important in this equation? Oh, people are killing themselves in their parks with alcohol. And so, that actually led me into the work I do at Aquila. And it also set me on this path to try to resolve the question of homelessness in our neighborhoods, especially the neighborhood downtown.
Christopher Constant (33:27):
And so, that became a unifying force that lifted me up, and my neighbors. When the person who was in the seat before me was turning out, they from corner to corner said, "Chris, you have to run." And so, that's how it worked for me.
Andrew Gray (33:40):
Is that Patrick Flynn?
Christopher Constant (33:41):
Patrick Flynn. Yeah. And so, the neighborhood basically said, I'm like, "I'm not ready for this." Just like you said, how can you ever be ready to throw yourself into this mix? It's terrifying, it's complex. It's impossible. It's all of the things that tell you, "Don't do this." And so, you have to swallow all of that negativity, and fear, and doubt, and insecurity that every human being has. This imposter syndrome, the nagging voice in the back of your head. And to say, "Okay, I'm going to do it."
Christopher Constant (34:08):
There's a book called the Alchemist, by Paulo Coelho. The character, Santiago, he is taught a very important lesson, that once you commit to a plan, the whole universe will bend to help you achieve it. And I have found that to be true. That upon my commitment, boy, amazing how things came together. And in my specific race, six candidates, I managed to pull a 53% majority, which was mind blowing.
Andrew Gray (34:35):
And it was because you already had some name recognition, because of all of your work for the dog park, and just getting involved in the homelessness.
Christopher Constant (34:42):
And I want to call it name recognition per se. I would call it relationships with the people in the neighborhood. The name recognition is an interesting phenomenon. It's to me, all about the relationships.
Andrew Gray (34:57):
And Felix, you ran for Elvi Gray-Jackson's chair, correct?
Felix Rivera (35:02):
Yeah. She was standing down.
Andrew Gray (35:03):
And similar. So, Patrick Flynn asked Chris-
Christopher Constant (35:06):
No, he did not support me.
Andrew Gray (35:07):
He didn't support you?
Christopher Constant (35:08):
No.
Andrew Gray (35:09):
So, I misunderstood what you just said. So, who approached you and said you had to run for it?
Christopher Constant (35:13):
My neighbors.
Andrew Gray (35:14):
Your neighbors? Okay, so that was different.
Christopher Constant (35:16):
Yeah. The people that [crosstalk 00:35:17]. Patrick actually, studiously avoided taking a position in a six-way race, which was fine. I didn't need him. We're friends, and we get along great. But his position was, I am not getting in this race, because it's not my decision who takes over from me.
Andrew Gray (35:31):
Okay. I'm glad I clarified that. You had a different experience, Felix?
Felix Rivera (35:35):
Yes.
Andrew Gray (35:35):
Elvi Gray-Jackson talked to you about running, and you felt it was too soon?
Felix Rivera (35:40):
Yeah. So, Elvi approached me, because she was termed out. And so, she was going to be leaving the seat. And I was working in the mayor's office at the time. And the decision was, okay, do I continue in the mayor's office? Do I decide to run for this seat now? Or do I just decide to run later in the future? And I think I eventually, similar to Chris, convinced myself, "Okay, no, I'm ready. This is my time." Having worked in politics, I know in politics everything is about timing. You either go through that door when it's open, or it shut for you. So, I decided it's time for me to go through that door, and begin this journey.
Christopher Constant (36:24):
Did being gay come up in your campaign?
Felix Rivera (36:31):
Yeah, I would say interestingly enough, I think for me being gay, I think came up in a lot of innuendo ways. I don't think it was very direct-
Christopher Constant (36:44):
There was an attack piece. There was one male attack piece by Don Smith.
Andrew Gray (36:46):
Yeah. Don Smith did a whole bunch of attack pieces though. So, it's hard to keep it together
Christopher Constant (36:51):
There was one that was very specifically [crosstalk 00:36:53] gay.
Andrew Gray (36:53):
So, there was one, I remember one attack piece that Don Smith put out, that I think upset me more than any of the others. It was basically attacking me for being Latino. And basically saying, "Felix is going to let all of the Mexican rapists have their way in Anchorage." He pulled the Trump.
Christopher Constant (37:19):
And just for the record, Don Smith is commonly known as the father of the tax cap, but I've rebranded him as the illegitimate father of the tax cap. Because there are newspaper clips that have demonstrated he actually didn't propose or moved the tax cap. It was a lady who did at the time. Don Smith just took the credit for it. So, he's the illegitimate father of the tax cap.
Andrew Gray (37:41):
So, it sounds like you noticed more the attack on your ethnicity than the attack on your sexuality?
Felix Rivera (37:48):
For me, yeah. That was, I think, more noticeable.
Andrew Gray (37:51):
And Chris, did your sexuality come up?
Christopher Constant (37:53):
So, my district is different than his district. And it was lift for me. It was support from every corner. That was an asset, and it raised a lot of money for me, and it helped position me for the win. And so, it was never a negative. And Felix probably saw this more than I did, when he was the chair during this pandemic process. The homophobia in this town is rampant and awful, but it's not from the people who lift us up, and support us, and help us to win. Because when our allies... And this is across the political spectrum, Republican, Democrat, Independent, Nonpartisan. When our allies see that kind of behavior, they anneal, and come to us, and support us. There's just, this community has that faction, but it doesn't tolerate it. And so, when it comes at us, it's amazing what happens. The warmth, and love, and support that comes out of this community is overwhelming. For me in the last year, it's happened a couple times.
Andrew Gray (38:47):
Did you feel that homophobia was rampant before you went onto the assembly?
Christopher Constant (38:54):
It's always a thread. Yeah. It's always been there.
Andrew Gray (38:57):
I guess it's just, as a gay man, my experience has been so different. I guess because I haven't been a public person in Anchorage, and I've never had anyone say any epithets to my face, or seen anything, or had anyone write comments on that.
Christopher Constant (39:12):
Right. My old roommate and his friend was walking downtown in front of what's now the 49th State, hand in hand with his boyfriend at the time. And they had eggs thrown at them.
Andrew Gray (39:23):
You did?
Christopher Constant (39:24):
No, our friend. [crosstalk 00:39:26]-
Andrew Gray (39:25):
Oh, your friend? You had mutual friends.
Christopher Constant (39:26):
... previously discussed, my former housemate. They had eggs thrown at them. The reality is, it's here.
Felix Rivera (39:33):
And I think one of the things that really, I think, stoked that homophobia, was when Chris Austin and I sponsored the conversion therapy bit. That's when it got next level kind of stuff.
Christopher Constant (39:47):
Disgusting.
Felix Rivera (39:48):
People saying, we're pedophiles. We're doing this just so that we can get meat.
Christopher Constant (39:54):
Yeah, that was [crosstalk 00:39:55].
Felix Rivera (39:55):
All kinds of disgusting things.
Andrew Gray (39:57):
And you said that your allies lifted you up. What is the recourse when people start posting things, that you're a pedophile? What do you do?
Christopher Constant (40:08):
So, my tactic is not to try to stop them from expressing themselves. So the other day, this happened at the Dias. And my message was, "Hey, I don't want to stop this individual for making his testimony, but I want everyone to recognize on the record, that this is what just happened." Because when the community knows and sees it, they reject it. And so to me, the idea is, make them known.
Andrew Gray (40:32):
Sunlight.
Christopher Constant (40:33):
Yes. And then, the community will know who those people are, and it drives them into the dark. It makes them be quiet, because the pain that they experience from expressing their truth, is enough to stop them. So to me, that's my methodology. It's just shine the light right on them, and let everyone know.
Andrew Gray (40:51):
Do you feel that the recall against you had any roots in...
Felix Rivera (40:57):
Yes, absolutely. They weren't trying to hide it. If you looked at some of the reasons that they wanted to recall me, and the conversion theory be banned, it was on the top of their list. And during the campaign, I just can't tell you how many messages that I got. People would message me on Facebook, or they would call me, and leave me nasty voicemails. Just strictly based on this homophobic element. And one of the themes of the recall that I heard, out in save Anchorage was, "We need to get rid of one of the queers. We have too many queers on this side. Let's get rid of one of them." So, it was very prevalent.
Andrew Gray (41:47):
And recently, since you've been vice chair, Christopher, we've had at least two very public-
Christopher Constant (42:00):
Demonstrations.
Andrew Gray (42:01):
... demonstrations.
Christopher Constant (42:01):
Yeah. No. And that, it's so very interesting. The gut check reaction for the first one, Paul Kendall, was that room that just cheered with him. That was the gut check for me. I don't care that some crazy old man talks trash. I've had that all my life. But when a mob joins in a chorus with him, that was very creepy. I don't have any better word for it.
Andrew Gray (42:24):
Right. And I'll just say, Paul Kendall passed away. And this was during COVID mitigation testimony. That was a very crazy time. Lots of national news coverage.
Christopher Constant (42:37):
The worst in the country.
Andrew Gray (42:39):
Yeah, for sure. Did you feel safe at that time? As an assembly member, walking to your car. It just seemed like the fever pitch was high.
Felix Rivera (42:51):
Yeah. I would say in, no. At the time, I certainly didn't feel safe. I remember there was one meeting. I think it was an October meeting, when Chris, you were out, and I was stepping in as the vice chair. And I think that was the meeting where I was legitimately scared. I wanted to make sure, okay, we're going to travel out as a group, and we're going to have security and police come out with us, so that we are safe when we go to the parking lot.
Christopher Constant (43:20):
And that was the night that the COVID hit the administration. And so, we've had massive security since. And one point to Suzanne, or the chair, there's this story. I want to make sure people get to understand about that night and the next night. It's the Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire thing. So, Suzanne led an incredible difficult conversation. That question, none of us wanted it. One of us brought it. It had to happen. We had it. But it wasn't passible because of that crazy mob.
Christopher Constant (43:55):
And so, we went through two weeks of that process. And then finally, COVID hits. So, the next day Suzanne's like, "I can't come in, Chris, you have to cheer." She was abused, attacked, ran this mob process. The next day I come in, nobody showed up, and somebody moves an emergency ordinance, that immediately solves the problem. And I started getting phone calls right away. "You were such a great leader. Look what you did. The room was easy to work with." And I'm like, "No, you don't understand. I actually just came and had the icing of the conversation. I didn't have to work for this other than sit next to her, and help her for the two week process."
Christopher Constant (44:36):
She was the one who led us through that extraordinarily difficult conversation. And I somehow got the credit for it. So, I always try to push the light back on Suzanne's leadership, because she's the one. I just got to come in on the last day. And when it was easy, and it was orderly, and no one was there. And so just, that's a sidebar, but I want people to know. It wasn't me, that was Suzanne.
Andrew Gray (44:58):
I want to go back at the conversation really quick to the difference between mayors. So...
PART 3 OF 4 ENDS [00:45:04]
Andrew Gray (45:00):
... to the difference between mayors. So in what's become an infamous interview with Dick Trainee by Jeff Landfield, he talks about how Bronson is a very involved mayor who participates in Assembly meetings, contrasting him in a positive way that previous mayors... and he specifically says Ethan Berkowitz... would often say, "No comment. I have nothing to add. I have nothing to say," not participating in the meeting itself. Can you talk a little bit about the difference between mayor participation in meetings and how that's changed the flavor of the meetings?
Felix Rivera (45:41):
I think, for me, I think the most often that I talk with the mayor and his team is during Assembly meetings because, otherwise, good luck trying to talk with them. You have to send an email and hope that they will respond if you want to actually talk with a member of the administration. So, for me, I think there's that opposite of where Bronson is overly active in our Assembly meetings and-
Andrew Gray (46:12):
Absent.
Felix Rivera (46:12):
... absent otherwise, whereas Berkowitz, absent during our Assembly meetings. Sure. In terms of speaking and engaging, his philosophy was, "This is the assemblies meeting. I don't need to be involved in it." But otherwise, we had a really great ability to be able to talk with him and communicate with his staff and work with his staff. So I think it's very much opposites in that way.
Christopher Constant (46:37):
For me, Ethan issued, I think, one veto that we overrode and this mayor is just, "Veto, veto, veto," and, "Override, override, override," and so I've been thinking about this quite a bit. There was this ridiculous ad by that blog that must not be named that organized, "Nothing to report, nothing to report, nothing to report," and it had zero impact on the election, but it was pretty scathing ad.
Christopher Constant (47:05):
So I'm hopeful that an ad is developed that's... all these bombastic policies by this clown who thinks he knows, but demonstrates that he doesn't day in and day out, "Veto, override, veto, override," because the true policy makers of the city have always been the Assembly when it exercises that authority, because that's what the charter grants us. And so, we are not going to be run roughshod over by a team of fools that are attempting to tell the community one thing, but do another thing. And so the theme right now is veto, override, veto, override, and just this afternoon, we get to go override another one.
Andrew Gray (47:42):
Right. Well, I wonder if it's the strategy of trying to make the Assembly look like the crazy people because for it the upcoming election being like, "Look, we're trying to reign them in. We got to fix this."
Felix Rivera (47:55):
Oh, yeah. The mayor is absolutely targeting the Assembly. I mean, he's been public about it even before he got sworn in. After he got elected, he started going to fundraisers and saying, "All right, guys, I need your help. Now, that you elected me, we need to get rid of some of these Assembly members." That has been his goal.
Christopher Constant (48:17):
And he called us enemies. I mean, he actually used the term enemy, which is a failure to understand the duty of a mayor under the charter that we have that says we should be working together, and so he has effectively done that. But in terms of framing a group as crazy, they tried to make the security go home. They tried to turn off the video stream. They tried to send the police out.
Andrew Gray (48:40):
As Felix just said, at a time when you felt the most danger in the room.
Christopher Constant (48:45):
And so, in the end, the public, I believe is paying close attention to what's happening and they're not being bamboozled by the false premise that he continues to argue. The fluoride issue is another perfect example. He goes in, turns off the fluoride, and then his team says, "That wasn't a violation of the code," even though it's plain right there. So it's just like they are trying to perfect the art of gas lighting, but they're not being successful because they're just, frankly, not that smart.
Andrew Gray (49:11):
Two questions for you, Chris. I know we're getting towards the end of our time. The first one is the mayor made of very public apology to you after the Paul Kendall incident.
Christopher Constant (49:22):
Right.
Andrew Gray (49:25):
I was in the room. It sounded like a good apology to me. How can you talk about that apology?
Christopher Constant (49:35):
To think about that, I would say it was genuine. There's no reason to discount it as any other thing and we have a thousand ways we can disagree on who I prefer to have as my most intimate relations probably, one that he doesn't care so much about, but that mob is his. The way that that mob behaves is his. All you need to know to understand that is one day of the debates there are yellows stars being wielded at us with hissing sounds and people pointing at the one open Jewish man on the body in the most anti-Semitic gesture I've ever witnessed in my life and it was rallied by them. I saw his staff cheering for them that day. And then when he realized that he had crossed the line, when he had people from around the world talking about that, the next day he puts out a message and guess what? One person shows up with a yellow star and quickly realizes he made a mistake and tucks it into his pants and it disappears.
Christopher Constant (50:38):
And so if there's one thing that the public needs to understand is all of the behaviors of that mob are the behaviors of that mayor and his expressed will. So the apology was important and I'm grateful for it. What's better is control your mob because your mob is what's causing the toxicity in our community. And so, to me, that was a small gesture and well-received, but the reality is there's a broader implication to what's happening right now and who is the boss.
Andrew Gray (51:08):
Second question, speaking of who is the boss, and you may not want to answer this, but the mayor has said that city manager, Demboski, is running the city. It appears that that is the case and you guys had a very public friendship when you were on the Assembly together. Can you talk about the status of that friendship? What your relationship was like with her now?
Christopher Constant (51:34):
Yeah. So there are many very specific details I won't get into at this time. I actually feel sorry for her at this point because she has consolidated all power to herself. All communications from all department heads must come to her to the Assembly.
Christopher Constant (51:52):
Think about how difficult that is. This is a 3,000 person corporation running a 300,000 person city that's the heart of the economic hub of the State of Alaska, and she has made it so all roads lead through her. She is the municipal manager. She is the director of the Department of Community and Economic Development. She's in charge of water, utility. She's all of it. She's the director, the boss, so she's the acting mayor as well because the mayor, while he puts on a good bluster, he's out doing social events. He's not being the mayor, She is.
Christopher Constant (52:24):
Now, think about this. So we have an election coming up and a member from Eagle River is no longer going to be running for office. So the conservative faction of the body, it's brain trust, the most skilled parliamentarian they're going to have is the other member from Eagle River who two years in still can't make a motion properly. What that means is poor Amy Demboski is going to have to be the municipal manager, the director of all the departments individually, the acting mayor, and the chief parliamentarian for the conservative faction. It's going to cause her to have a nervous breakdown and get the worst case of shingles, and it's a disaster for her.
Christopher Constant (53:11):
So from a personal level, plenty of records demonstrate that she stabbed me pretty hard in making some gross accusations for political gain and, to me, trust is the heart of our work. So if there is no trust, you can't do the work. Interestingly, that member from Eagle River made some argument recently that, "Oh, these folks must be having secret meetings because they're making these decisions so easily." I'm like, "Yeah, you tell us how you think. That's how you would do this thing. But what we have, the secret sauce that we have right now as a body, we trust each other. If somebody says something, we know they mean it and if they say they're going to do something, we know they're going to do it, and it's amazing what trust can do to achieve collective impact."
Christopher Constant (54:02):
If you don't have trust, everybody's paranoid, wearing their fall hats, looking out for each other. That's how I characterize the 8th floor. In fact, there's a report out there that they're so convinced we are spying on them that we've bugged their offices because their bad ideas get out into the community. No, we don't bug your office. We didn't need to do that. You surround yourself with people who don't trust you and you surround yourself with bad ideas. That's what happens. And so, for mine, me and mine choose trust with good people because that in the end is how you make good policy, and that's how you overcome these difficult times.
Andrew Gray (54:42):
Last question, and it is a personal question. You guys don't have to answer, but I'm sure people are curious. I mean, I don't know. Are you in a relationship?
Felix Rivera (54:51):
That's great. No, I am faithfully single.
Andrew Gray (55:00):
Same question to you, Christopher.
Christopher Constant (55:02):
It's interesting for me. I am single as well. Everyone thinks I'm married and I have a partner. I have a best friend I live with and we do have a family unit because we've been friends for a long time, but everyone assumes we're in a relationship. We are not. He has his own, but for me, no.
Andrew Gray (55:18):
Well, I would imagine it'd be very difficult to date in Anchorage as a very public Assembly member. I mean, are you able to do that?
Felix Rivera (55:29):
I have found it very difficult to do that and especially because in my generation, a lot of initial communication start on apps. So, back in the day, I used to use some of those apps-
Christopher Constant (55:45):
Can't do it.
Felix Rivera (55:46):
... but I couldn't do it anymore because I literally got threatened on one of those apps. Someone said, "Hey, what are you doing on here? I know who you are. I can ruin your political life." That was when I was like, "Okay, shutting this down." For me, that closed off a lot of opportunities.
Christopher Constant (56:03):
Same. Sharing pictures is the currency of the kingdom and someone's like, "Here," and I'm like, "I can't." They're like, "You don't trust me," and I'm like, "That's not it at all."
Andrew Gray (56:11):
Like, "I need a face pic."
Christopher Constant (56:12):
It's a principle. So I actually dated someone for almost two years and nobody knew because everyone assumes my roommate is my partner, which is great because it gives me a shield where I can in fact have a private life, but that person, I fell in love with. My life wasn't just one handful, it was more than two handfuls and they couldn't juggle it. So I lost out on that because of the dynamics of my life. I still am in love with that person and have yet to meet another person who even comes anywhere close. So I pine and wait and hope that I meet somebody who meets that mark because the mark has been set high.
Andrew Gray (56:49):
Are you looking for... Do you want people to introduce you?
Christopher Constant (56:54):
You can find a record of me giving a story at Arctic Entries and so there's a link. I don't know if you've listened, but this was the week that marriage became legal in Alaska. I had a totally different story set, but 48 hours before I'm on the stage in front of 1,000 people, marriage happens. I'm like, "That's the story I got to tell," and so I tell my history. The theme that night was Tales of the Impossible and I'm like, "I am going to tell the tale of the impossible: we won marriage." So I ended the story on, "And the next impossible task, finding someone to marry." So I told this whole story, seven minutes of, "I'm queer and I'm single." I got seven asks for a date and they were all women.
Andrew Gray (57:37):
Oh, my gosh.
Christopher Constant (57:40):
So, for my part, I don't know what the answer is. This is a very difficult equation up here. That's' the impossible.
Andrew Gray (57:47):
Hey, thank you both so much for doing this today. Y'all are great. This has been a really good conversation and I'm really grateful to you guys for being so generous with your time. I know you guys have a million meetings to go to, so thanks again.
Christopher Constant (58:01):
We have to go to an override party.
Andrew Gray (58:03):
I know. You got to go to an override party. Well, have a wonderful override party and I hope I'll have you on again. Thank you so much.
Christopher Constant (58:11):
Thank you.