Sports Parents: The Fine Line Between Support and Sabotage

Episode Summary: In this powerful and honest episode of the Blue Chip Academy podcast, former NFL athletes and sports business experts Justin King and Ryan Mundy pull back the curtain on the most overlooked force in athlete development: parents. From NIL to college recruiting to youth sports, they explore how a parent's involvement can either position their child for greatness or unknowingly hinder long-term success.

The conversation dives into:

• Archetypes of sports parents (good & bad): Helicopter Parents, Investor Parents, Coaches from the Stands, and more
• How to empower your child without overstepping
• When living through your child crosses the line
• The critical value of family assets in a world that commodifies young athletes
• Lessons learned from their own parents are now being passed down to their daughters
• Why support doesn’t stop at a scholarship or NFL draft night—it just begins

Key Themes:

• Becoming a "Blue Chip Parent"
• Dual-lane athlete branding (on-field performance + off-field development)
• Preparing your athlete to navigate the business, not just play the game
• Recognizing when you need to step back vs when you need to step up

Don't guess your way through your child's athletic journey. Tap into LIG Sports Group and get the guidance, strategy, and education to help your athlete grow into a trustworthy, high-value asset in today’s chaotic sports ecosystem. Enroll in the Recruiting Business Masterclass, available now at LIG Sports, and subscribe to the Blue Chip Academy newsletter for weekly insights.

Transcript

Ryan (00:02)
All right, here we go. What's going on, y'all? Welcome to another episode of the Blue Chip Academy podcast. I'm Ryan Mundy, and also we got Justin King on the mic, two former Blue Chip athletes breaking down game for you so that you could be a better person, better player, and live a better life. Man, how you feeling today, Justin?

Justin King (00:21)
Feeling great, man. Bless Monday. Had a rock hit my car over the weekend and getting that fixed. you know, thing. Windshield, man. Hit the windshield just out of nowhere. I felt like somebody threw a rock. I was like... I just felt like it. But it was almost like a golf size. It wasn't like a little Nick. It was like a golf ball. I was like, yo, who hit this? I was behind an 18-wheeler. But no, blessings. Everything's good. We're here this good Monday. Good NBA kickoff. Dive into some stuff. Talk about...

Ryan (00:27)
And the windshield.

Man, that's the worst. threw a rock. ⁓ okay. ⁓

Justin King (00:49)
parent archetypes and all that good stuff, man. I think we got some good things to dive into, some nuanced things to touch on.

Ryan (00:55)
Yeah,

yeah, there's a lot going on in the world for sure. ⁓ The weekend was pretty busy on my end, man. Beyonce was in town and so that had the city all up in a frenzy and my youngest daughter and my wife, they went to the concert yesterday. So that was cool. But weather wise, man, or actually quick back step, yes.

I feel you on the rock and the windshield. actually had that happen to me a few weeks ago and still haven't got my windshield fixed and just kind of riding around with a small crack. But eventually I got to get that done. But the weather here in Chicago, man, has been kind of crazy. It was 85 on Friday and then that morphed into like a dust storm, which was kind of crazy. never, you know how you get those like alerts on your phone around like weather alerts. It started ringing. It was like, rrr, rrr, rrr, dust storm alert. I was like, well, never had that before, but.

⁓ Yeah, man, the weekend was cool. There was a lot happening, some great NBA playoff games. ⁓ And now we got the conference final set, man. So right now it's Knicks versus Pacers and OKC versus the Wolves, And I like it because they all have young energy about them. Like all these teams have very, very young energy and it should be an exciting series, But what's your thoughts on it?

Justin King (02:11)
I mean, I'm excited. Again, when major markets are in, the finals, I think, is pretty cool. like the Knicks being there. It's like everybody's showing the crazy fans. And I'm a, I like Ant, like Ant-Man. I like, I think he's box office in terms of just seeing that next guard of guys. I mean, I guess is the NBA ready for him to be the face? This is the question. Like, you know what mean? That's probably a better question.

Ryan (02:24)
Yeah. Can he beat the face? Is he ready for the face of the NBA? Is he ready for that?

That's a better question. Right. Is the NBA ready for him?

Yeah, that's real. That is very real.

Justin King (02:37)
Cause I think he's

a little different than even like a John Moran. You know what mean? John Moran was a little rough around the edges, his high time, they can kind of do what they need to do. Like, he's going to talk that thing a certain type of way. told Obama stand down. Like, don't know if the NBA is ready for that. I mean, crown him. But I think he's the type of sports asset that people would get around because he's polarizing. You either love him or hate him. I want to feel off the court, whatever the case may be. He's polarizing, but he's a baller at the end of the day. And that's what people are paying.

Ryan (02:40)
Yeah.

Hahaha

Yeah.

Justin King (03:06)
to see and that's what he gets paid to do.

Ryan (03:06)
Yeah,

big time. then, then also with Adidas too, man, they're doing a great job of marketing with that dude. So we'll see where it goes, man. I like them a lot, but that is a great way to kind of flip that question. Is the NBA ready for him? We'll see. We will definitely see. But basketball was definitely popping this weekend too, man. And also the WNBA kicked off. so round two of Kaitlin Clark and Angel Reese. And again, being in Chicago.

Justin King (03:21)
You

Ryan (03:33)
That's always a talk of the town and they got a little chippy over the weekend, Were you able to check out that game?

Justin King (03:39)
I saw the aftermath. I saw the aftermath and comments. Emanuel Acho says some, some wow stuff about, uh, think, uh, Reese Hayden Clark, because she got the file. Huh? Yeah. He's yeah. Yeah. He's very interesting. Take it. Just, it seems pandering, but yeah, it's stupid. Cause at the end of the day, like they're competitors. And if you like track them back all the way to high school and Angel Reese was in Maryland, like they've been, they've always been talking trash or going at after each other. But I think that's a beautiful part of the game.

Ryan (03:42)
Yeah.

He has some interesting takes. He has some interesting takes. Interesting. Yeah.

Justin King (04:08)
But it's interesting when we just got more fan involvement, Twitter, and just hear fans unadulterated opinions about players versus another player. I think that's what becomes interesting. Because before, you used to say, everybody takes criticism. Everybody takes ⁓ praise or whatever the case may be. But it's always interesting between Angel Reese and Caitlin Clark because

the juxtaposition of how they carry themselves, how they operate, and then the fans that support one or the other, it becomes like an old Larry Bird, Magic Johnson type thing. it's, I don't know, it's interesting because, because like there's truth to a lot of it, but at the same time, like this is a sport and a lot of times it gets overblown, but it was interesting hearing this stuff about it.

Ryan (04:46)
Yeah

People need stuff to talk about, man. You know how it goes. People need stuff

to talk about. Speaking of stuff to talk about, man, like this, I don't even know how to call it, I guess, like President Trump and getting involved in college athletics and the NIL, this conversation in this situation seems to be picking up steam. ⁓ And particularly now that Nick Saban and a few other billionaires and like folks with influence in capital are really starting to come to the table and...

rally around whatever's happening, what exactly we don't know, I don't think. But there seems to be something brewing and something that is on the horizon. So I'm just curious, man, like one, what is your take on that? And then like double clicking into it, like, what does it say about the current state of college athletics where like the president has to get involved to, to quote, fix it? Cause I'm assuming that's like the, the, the ethos around like him getting involved, like there, there's

there seems to be an identified problem or an issue and it's like, okay, well, here comes the president, here comes the government to quote, fix it. ⁓ And that I think is really interesting because in a lot of ways, shapes and forms, the government really doesn't fix anything. But that's a whole nother conversation. ⁓ But just curious on your take, man, like what this conversation is in this storyline is definitely picking up a lot of headlines esteem ⁓ over the last few days and weeks, man. But what are your thoughts on it?

Justin King (06:10)
No, no, no.

I think this is a sum of a lack of leadership and an opportunist that sees an opportunity to take advantage of poor leadership. Right. And I think it's very easy to step in and just make executive orders because the NCAA is a mess. I mean, I think it's not aligned on what they say they are from an amateurism model. I think Donald Trump got into office from kind of pulling the veils back on everybody. Right. Hey, this is how

Ryan (06:30)
Mm.

Justin King (06:50)
do fundraising, this is why you should vote for me. And so like even in this stage, think the general public's temperature about college sports is that it's lost and it needs a savior, it needs structure. And then who else better than to jump in that to get fanfare when we talk about an institution of college sports that is valued at the same level as religion in this country, right? And a lot of like...

Ryan (07:03)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Justin King (07:14)
outcome metrics based on it. And so when you see that, think it's a, it's a power play move, but I don't know if he has any, I mean, credible jurisdiction to do anything that will make the situation better. think in NIL, everybody's going to come down on whether it's the handlers or the agents and things of that nature, because it's a low hanging fruit and these guys need help and infrastructure to protect the players. But at the end of the day,

the decision-makers needs quality control, right? Like they're kind of running free without having that background of running a monetizable or profit generating enterprise. Like these guys are all leaders of nonprofit institutions. So like the whole idea of, we need to generate revenue from a product that we put on the field is a different operation than going out and asking boosters for money. You know what I mean? So this is a sum of a lack of leadership, not opportunity. ⁓

Ryan (07:46)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Justin King (08:12)
opportunists to take a chance at an opportunity.

Ryan (08:15)
Yeah, that's a great way to put it, man. It shows up as an opportunity for the opportunist, and double clicking into that, it's like, I look at it as, and I think you had mentioned this, a power play, right? Like I think the power, quote, is really starting to shift towards players and athletes, and they're starting to realize their power. ⁓

And before that power grows too quickly, provisions, constraints, control starts to show up. And I think this is exactly what that is. ⁓ And, you know, it really is, because like when I read up on this, it seemed like Trump was aligning himself with like the coaches, the establishment, if you will, and like, wait, the players have too much power. And if you think back, ⁓

Justin King (09:06)
you

Ryan (09:10)
you know, to like even Colin Kaepernick and some of his comments around kneeling, et cetera. And then the response from the owners during that time, like it, it's kind of given me those vibes, those very same vibes around like, look, let's get all the folks who have the control and, and the authority and the power, let's get on the same page before the players to quote and the assets and the folks who are actually creating value in the ecosystem before they realize and wake up too much.

and start to tap into their own personal power and their own agency before things get out of control. Like, you know, let's step in here. That's really what it kind of feels like to me. And so I'm interested to see how it's going to unfold, particularly like with the NCAA, which is an institution, ⁓ long standing of which like, you know, like what is the true value in which they're delivering and how are they actually empowering and supporting players, particularly in this dynamic climate?

So it is a fascinating story, man. And it actually sounds like something we should dive into sooner than later because this thing is happening fast and it's going to directly affect the folks in which we're looking to help and support, man. So it'll be interesting to say the least, but man, power always brings folks out of the woodwork to make sure that.

you know, things kind of stay the same or like folks don't realize who they are at their core.

Justin King (10:38)
And that's exactly what's happening. I mean, I've been screaming cautionary tales on just the moves even from players and families going through the process while they've had this little suspended freedom of transfer portal, whole and teams hostage and things of that nature. I'm like, bro, like these guys do financial forecasts and tracking human ⁓ interactions or customer profiles all the time. You guys are a part of the customer base right now. We're learning a lot about you guys. So when you're transferring schools, you got this

lawyers suing this university. got ⁓ players hole in the coach up. I'm all for player empowerment, but I understood the chess play that yo, as you guys do this, like they do have the big joker in this whole situation. And the sense of like they align with the president, what the boosters with like their alignment is much better than the athletes and the players. And everybody is just kind of screaming from the sidelines going on. So like that's kind of, so I'm not surprised that someone like Trump would say that, but

Ryan (11:21)
Hahaha

Yeah.

Justin King (11:38)
You kind of need that in order to run a football league, which is, that's why I say it's like, it's the sum of a lack of leadership. You get to the NFL bad, right, wrong or different, you know who the leaders are. You know, when Roger Goodell says this, this is this, you know, when Jerry Jones says this, we're going about what he said. Like the leadership is that in no role with a decision, whether it's right or wrong. You know what I mean? And I think that's what we were seeing in college and these guys not doing that. it's trying to...

Ryan (11:42)
Mm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Justin King (12:07)
operate in his bastardized model where it's like, right, we're trying to make money and have infrastructure, but keep up the veil of, hey, this is still a developmental league and it's backed by the education system. And that's not, it is, but that's not really the case. So I think even with him doing that, it's like, it's actually necessary though. That's what is kind of tricky in this whole thing is like Donald Trump is over stomping, overstepping his bounds, kind of getting into it. at the same time, there aren't.

Ryan (12:23)
Yeah.

Justin King (12:35)
necessarily leaders that know what to do in college sports right now. And that's ⁓ a major reason why it's in, I would say, the wild, wild west. But there's a lot of opportunities if you go along with the right partners, LIG Sports.

Ryan (12:40)
Yeah.

Yes.

leaders gotta

lead and if leaders don't lead then somebody's gonna step in the gap and I think that is the testament and the true case of where we are right now, man. So we'll definitely have to find the right time and space to dive deeper into this subject but let's move on to today's topic and that's really around the involvement of parents in sports. ⁓ We've both been very blessed to have active and influential parents.

that have really shaped and molded not only our athletic careers, but ultimately who we are as people. And so when we brought it up on last week's episode, I was like, yo, like we should actually do that this week. And so here we are. And I think it's always a timely discussion, particularly around like the role and involvement of parents because they're so instrumental and impactful. And again, the development of athletes and their own children.

Justin King (13:29)
Mm-hmm.

Ryan (13:47)
But I think it's also timely for me because actually again on Friday, I was out at dinner and I saw a buddy and he invited me over to his table to speak to a Notre Dame recruit who is an incoming freshman. And you know, it was like, hey, you're a former athlete, you've been there, done that, come talk to this guy, give him some words of wisdom, like give him a pep talk, et cetera, you those types of vibes.

Justin King (14:10)
Thank

Ryan (14:14)
And I was like, all right, cool. So I went over to the table and it was him, it was his father and a few other folks. And so we had a nice conversation, but what was most top of mind for me when, I asked a general question to both him and the athlete and his father. And I asked, I said, you know, like, how are you dealing with this NIL stuff? you know, what, what?

What is your take on it? How was your experience, et cetera? And he said something really, really interesting that kind of struck me. said that, I hired an agent, and that's a whole other type of conversation. But what stood out to me in his response was he said I did that because I just wanted to be dad. I just wanted to parent my son. I didn't want to have to worry about the complications of the deal, the money, and all this other types of stuff.

and honestly things that I don't have any experience or know how I'm doing. I just want it to be that. And that really kind of struck a chord with me because at the end of the day, that is the primary responsibility of a parent is to be the parent and all these other dynamics and factors ⁓ don't get in the way, but they kind of cloud judgment. And particularly now that money is starting to be involved, feelings, thoughts, ambitions, missed opportunities, all of these things.

Really start to show up when we talk about like the decision makers and those who are supporting the child Primarily starting with the parent and so I thought that was a very timely discussion because I was like We're gonna talk about this on Monday. And so here we are man ⁓ You know getting ready to dive into like these different parent types of archetypes, but ⁓ I just thought that was really interesting ⁓ So like with with your dad right like you were coached by your dad ⁓

and he was there with you all the time. How was that experience?

Justin King (16:08)
Well, I mean, before I even touch on that, would like to, would even, I hear parents say that, like, I just want to be the parent. I always like to reframe or ask a follow up question is like, what does mean being the, like, what does just being the parent mean to you? Because I think that's where it gets a little tricky when we look at parent involvement, because then my next question would be like, well, do you think the parent's job is to prepare the kid? Right? Because like we get into a space,

Ryan (16:22)
What does that mean? Yeah.

Hmm.

Justin King (16:38)
where I think the benefactors or the predictors of success in the sport, whether it's an involved parent, is because the kid is prepared. Then sometimes when we see the over-involved parent and the kid fails, it's like they were prepared but not in the right areas. Do you know what I mean? Still good intention, right? Still good intention, but not the tactical knowledge to be able to connect the dots.

Ryan (16:58)
Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Justin King (17:07)
That's where I think this thing is tricky. I only come across a very small percentage of parents that are just kind of, where I think leaving like, man, this is a piece of shit. Like only a very few. But like most of the time it's, have empathy because they're trying in one way or another to fix it. like, so when I say that, you know,

Ryan (17:17)
Mm-hmm.

Justin King (17:28)
what does it mean to be a parent is to prepare. Cause when you asked me, like, what was my experience like when my pops being my coach, think it's a very nuanced and different approach because like that's how I, you know, I felt the connection or just people don't know the background between my pops, uh, coach, Jerry Smith at Penn State, but like I met him at a department store. You know what I mean? So like I'm going, you know, Christmas shopping. I'm about five, six years old, meet this guy, you know, my mom started dating him.

Ryan (17:44)
Mm-hmm.

Justin King (17:58)
And he starts giving me all his football knowledge. like from this standpoint, that was, you know, me and my dad, have a good relationship. So instead of parenting, there was a void that I was looking for. And so this man comes into my life and just gives me all the tools to kind of build me up, whether it's like I'm an insecure kid where I'm just with my mom trying to figure it out. And he gives me these tools of football of like building up, whether it's your, your, your self-esteem, your work ethic, accountability, discipline, vision.

Ryan (18:09)
Mm-hmm.

Justin King (18:27)
goal setting, all these different types of things, but it was always set from football. And so I say that to say, is that like, he would have been like a helicopter dad per se, but he also was my coach. So it was in that phase of like kind of rubbing the line of I dead and preparing me, but also being the coach and seeing through the performance. And I say that to say is like, my experience was very unique because I never had that moment where

Ryan (18:51)
Mm-hmm.

Justin King (18:57)
I didn't want to listen. You know what I mean? Like I think I was most upset or hurt in my career. I don't think I ever said this, but like when I got to the league and I knew like gateway was at his full throttle. And then I felt like I was by myself to an extent. Like I had all this support, you know, he's helping me. got that feedback loop. I know exactly. I'm like, it's like a team, blah, blah. All these different types of things that people typically get in the league. had growing up all the way to a point.

Ryan (19:00)
Hmm.

Justin King (19:22)
And then gateway kind of blew up and you he's helping guys get scholarships. He's doing the high school coaching and things like that. And it's like, well, damn, this is where I really need the support in the league because you think we're letting them go off into this place where we built them up to be, but there's like, you know, they still need support when they get there. So like, I have a different perspective about helicopter parents. Like I, I liked them. I want to help them. I want to inform them to make sure that they are helping their kids. Because what I realized is that everybody that makes it to the back end of professional sports,

Ryan (19:32)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Justin King (19:53)
any sport, the family nucleus is strong. And I'm not saying making it out with money, right? I'm talking about making it out healthy and like, okay. You know I mean? That's a common, it's a huge difference in how it's done. And a lot of times it's just misinterpreted. You know what mean? With a lack of knowledge and, you know, over-preparedness for your kids. So that's, so my experience is very different. gave them, I was my stepdad and then, so I didn't.

Ryan (20:02)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's a big difference, man. That's a huge difference. Mm-hmm.

Justin King (20:23)
I built that trust, but also that trust as a coach. And then I looked at coaches differently as I went through the business. I always trusted my pops more to the coach. So was like, there was never a chance where I was like, man, he's crazy. He's not listening. It's like, I hung on to every word that he said. He said it. I did it. Right. He challenged me. I answered the call. When I, when that was like, he still did when I was in the league, but when you become good to the league, you know, I think parents, like him as a coach, he wants like, they want to...

Ryan (20:40)
Mm. Right.

Justin King (20:52)
Let go, we did our due, let's now do your thing. You made it. And what I realized from working in the sport, transitioning out, how much support I still actually needed more support when I made it to the league and when I was transitioning out, because we think that it's the resources that got us there, but really it's the love and support and like that feeling of having a team around you that made me feel successful my whole life. And then not that they weren't there, it's just the dynamics change when you get into the professional rank. So.

Ryan (20:52)
Yep, step back. Yep, you made it. Yeah.

Hmm.

Justin King (21:22)
Again, that's a lot of reasons why probably my perspective on the process and how it goes is a little bit different. But yeah, that was my experience. mean, being a coach's kid and then transitioning out to work in the football. Like you need advice, you need guidance, you need to lean on people, you need to have conversations about like, hey, I need to I'm taking a $70,000 pay cut.

work back into football. Can I stay with you guys for seven or eight months? Like I still need a support even financially after I played in the league for five years and worked and did things like that. Like I'm talking about work. I made six figures work in corporate America. Like I didn't, so like, I took a pay cut to work back in the football, but I needed my parents support to kind of make those connections, even working in football. like the support of a parent in my brain does never stops. It just shifts. And I try to even

Ryan (21:51)
Mm-hmm.

Justin King (22:17)
pick up the place like, right, where my pops kind of was there is that from that advisor, objective resource, sounding board. He's always been that, but like how deep do guys need that when they get to the league and when they get deeper into their career? Because I think rightfully so, some parents and coaches, they want, or parents like step off. It's like, hey, they made it and I want to.

you know, want to give them their chance to do what they want to do. And it's funny we say that because it's a lot of, it's a lot of former NFL players that are like that because we understand the business and we never want to be that parent that we always saw growing up. You know what mean? We don't want to be the LeVar ball. We don't want to be embarrassing to our kid. We don't want to be that, but we want that result though. Like we want that. We want the, the woods result.

Ryan (22:53)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of

proof in the pudding. is call it what you want. You could, you could get mad at them. You could not like it, but hey, he put guys, helped his sons accomplish their dream. Right. And a lot of people really can't say that.

Justin King (23:16)
through preparation. Like, I think that's another thing that gets lost on these different, like, dads that they're talking about is like, all right, we talk about Earl Woods, but he's out there. The confidence was in the work. We think about the LeVar ball. He understood that he had assessed what they were, the 6'5 point guard. And he put in the work and cultivated a path. And like, he had a background. He played professional football. So he had some understanding of the business. He's not just a complete lost guy, right? And then, you know, it's...

Ryan (23:17)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Justin King (23:45)
It's just very interesting because the same things that make the successful ones, successful parents, I think people try to emulate that and they miss critical steps that have the most benefit to the player. You know what mean? So as we talk into it, mean, whenever you're ready, we can get into these archetypes. Cause I think from dealing with athletes and parents, let's dive into it. So I mean,

Ryan (24:10)
Let's dive into it. Yeah,

let's dive into it. What's the first, you mentioned the helicopter parent. Is that your first archetype or do you have another one?

Justin King (24:19)
The helicopter parent is a,

I think these are, so it's funny. I think the helicopter parent is the ideal parent. like they're all, these are all somewhat helicopter parents. Cause I, again, I challenge the parents that say, I just want to be a parent in, and kind of get someone else involved. Because like when I get to the league office or things of that nature, that's what they want. So anything that the business wants, I don't want the parents to want the same thing the business wants. Cause like now you're giving your kid away and now you're aligned with the owners and not your kid. So.

Ryan (24:42)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Justin King (24:49)
I don't like, that's not what I want. So I want you to be informed about what's going on. So I think the first one ⁓ from a standpoint is like the living through, like the living through them parent, right? Like that's somewhat of a helicopter prototype. That's the one that they didn't make it. So they're trying to live out through their kid. The guy that hurt his knee in high school was pretty good, fell out and he's putting all this pressure on the kid. And he was just a good, you know, major football player coming from a good place, right?

Ryan (25:00)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm

Justin King (25:17)
Whether it's a hurt place of like, need to get value for myself or whatever the case may be, he's trying to push his kid to represent something, whatever, right? Living through them parent. think a lot of guys don't want to be that. The coach from the stands parent is the coach that tried to take the advantage. Like, look, I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to be over here, but like they're at the game and they can't, they can't stay still. They always got something to say or.

Yelling at the coach, they know more because they watched ESPN. They heard Stephen A say something, but a lot of times undermines the actual coaching by injecting confusion and pressure, often blames team politics, favoritism for their child doesn't perform well, create tension between child and staff, stunning both trust and progress. They can't sit quietly during games, yells instructions, second guessing decisions. So like that's a lot different, you know, or less obnoxious than the living through them parent, right? He's obsessed.

Ryan (26:10)
Mm.

Justin King (26:10)
their kids fulfilling their own failed athletic dreams. It's just, comes off. ⁓

Ryan (26:14)
You said that's that's

less obnoxious. I would think that somebody who's yelling through the stands like yo sit your ass down. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Justin King (26:21)
Well, that's just at the game though. Do you know what I mean? Like that's just showing out when everybody's showing out. Like you're just yelling because

you didn't put in the work behind. the living through them parent, they actually are closer to, you know, the LeVar balls. Like they look like that until you like kind of understand the background of it. Cause when we look at, I mean, top players, man, whether it's like even like a Kobe Bryant, like his dad was, his dad was a coach, right? We talk about Oliver. I mean,

Ryan (26:30)
Mmm.

Justin King (26:48)
Um, Andrew Luck, you know, his dad was a former NFL player, worked in college. We can go through so many different scenarios, but the living through them parent is like a lifestyle. think the coach from the stands parent is an ego thing. Like a personal ego hurt. And then you got the investor parent, right? Treats you sports like a stock portfolio, only in it for a scholarship. Uh, once performance to equal payday ASAP, uh, often seeks representation or branding too soon.

Ryan (26:52)
Mm-hmm.

Justin King (27:18)
creating entitlement or burnout disconnects from human element, mental health, maturity, identity, development. That's the investor parent. That's the typical parent that says, I just want to be the parent. You know what mean? I think it, because it feels good because I want to invest. Hey, I'm going get me an agent. You take care of it. You start, yeah, whatever it takes. We'll pay for it. We'll make sure it's all right. But like not taking consideration of like, what does that mean for like the actual athlete development when you're that parent, right?

Ryan (27:29)
Mm.

I'm doing whatever it takes. Yeah.

Justin King (27:45)
Cause you still have to understand what's going on to like watch that agent, to watch the financial advisor, to watch the coach. how are you going to get the coach does some foul stuff. Like, how do you know when to file a grievance? How do you know when to like, you just want to trust this agent that only gives money when you get money. So that's where I think there's, there's a gap that happens with the investor parent. And I think even was so interesting about those three that I kind of came up with there may be negatives.

Ryan (27:52)
Mm-hmm.

Justin King (28:12)
You need, I think you need that for the predictors of success is the switch side or the flip side of those archetypes. I'm going to get into now. ⁓ it's like number one is the supporter, the supportive investor parent, right? Like he's the one positive, right? Under. Yes. Yes. Under like the bad version of it. Like I said before, pressure is like return of investment.

Ryan (28:29)
So these are like positive traits of the archetype. Yeah.

Justin King (28:42)
overgrowth. like, we need this money back. I'm putting you in seven on seven. So you better be good and play that. So like sometimes that investor parent turned into that player in the stands because like they're spending money and they're just looking for an outcome, but not really invested. Like, no kid doesn't want the gift. They want to spend time with you. Like that's how you get the respect with them. So like that investor, a supportive investor parent understands the business and sports, but stays grounded in development, supports advisors training and NIO prep when appropriate, but doesn't rush the process.

Ryan (28:57)
Hmm.

Justin King (29:09)
invest time, money, and energy strategically asking, this the right thing for my kid? This parent is an investor. They treat their kid and it's like a little bit of a apprehension and fear. Like I want to protect my kid going through this process, but I think I have something. So it's a positive thing. Sometimes it can, it can rub up against some of the other ones, but that's a, that's a positive one. The second one is the empowered advocate. ⁓ I guess it's inspired by like the coach from the parents.

coach from the stands parent, the bad version would be loud and disruptive. The ideal is like involved, respectful, educated, but defers to the coaching, right? Like you hear a lot of times when coaches like Dion Sanders that got into the game, this is how they started. I mean, when I was a kid, my pops didn't coach football at the youth league. And so he started arguing with all my coaches growing up about

you know, what's going on from the coaches standpoint. And I not feeling like I was getting the proper development and Hey, well, we need to do this the right way. But he had a understanding. But when he was actually a parent, he didn't, he didn't involve himself too much into the coaching thing. And this is, I'm going to take a quick pause there because I would say there was one instance in my life where he did become the helicopter parent where he kind of attacked the coach one time.

Ryan (30:20)
Mm-hmm.

Justin King (30:30)
when I was like in seventh or eighth grade, you know what mean? So this was before I get to Gateway, I'm at Willow Hills, and I can't say attacked. They got into a big argument after where it was a scene. Let's say a scene. And ⁓ it was like the first time, again, focused on development. He was never like that. know, he was always looking out for my well-being. Like, all right, if we're doing tackling drills and a coach is doing something, he might say something like, hey, man, these kids are too young. That might be something for their neck. ⁓ We got to the point where coach didn't give me the ball one time, and he was yelling at the coach about not giving me the ball.

Ryan (30:30)
Hmm.

Wait.

Mm.

Justin King (31:00)
And he said, like, how can you not give him the ball? And he's like the best player in the state. He yelled that. And that was like the first time I heard like validation from him that I was good. Like from him, what that did to my confidence, like that's what I'm saying. But like in that ideal, it was the parent yelling at the coach. And all I did was my, my, my, confidence went through the roof. So when I hear people talk about helicopter dads, I'm like, I don't know, dog, but my pops did that for me.

Ryan (31:08)
⁓ That's an important moment. Yeah, that's a very important moment.

Justin King (31:28)
put me into a different stratosphere or how I approach the work, how I listened to him. Then I felt like I was in the coupe of him. That's right before he became the Kojak gateway and everything kind of went on from there. So again, that empowered advocate, I would say he probably fell into that phrase before. That's why I think my pops was.

Ryan (31:30)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I mean, you need somebody

to advocate for you, right? Because you're a kid and you're not on the same level as an adult, right? You don't have the same energy. You don't have the same vocabulary. You don't have the same perspective. So children, whether you're an athlete or not, you need someone to advocate on your behalf. Absolutely.

Justin King (32:04)
And I think advocating and empowering the athlete, like advocating while empowering the athlete is such a nuanced piece because a lot of people within the ecosystem think they're empowering the athlete and they're really just making them weak or just making them susceptible to being taken advantage later on. them a crush. There it is. Don't give them a crush. Empowered. You know what I mean? Then that goes into the third archetype positive one where we talk about the dream supporter with boundaries, right?

Ryan (32:17)
Hmm.

Empower, don't give them a crutch, that's not empowering them, right? Don't give them a crutch, that's not empowerment. Yeah.

Justin King (32:33)
It's like that, it's the adverse of the living through them parent, instead of pushing their own agenda, remembers their journey, but centers the athlete's passion, Provides motivation, discipline, structure, not pressure, share stories and teach not to guilt or infiltrate their motivation. And a lot of times this is like the parents that they have a saying, the dream supporter, like trainers over tutors. I also have that with lot of parents that I deal with and they might play.

10 is golf or skill based sports. And you talk about using sports to get into Ivy league schools or high academic institutions and they're supporting a dream and they're like putting boundaries in a roadmap in it. And then I kind of help support that. So like that dream supporter with boundaries, that's the adverse of the living through them parent. like there's so many nuance flips of the coin that you can be doing certain things, right. And one thing wrong that can end it all.

So that's why it's, think, important because your kids going through this commodification process, and I don't want to take that lightly where they're turning into a product. The last thing they need is to lose their parent or lose their support.

Ryan (33:33)
Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Right.

Hmm. Yeah, that is that's actually a really, really important gem, right? Because there's not much that you do have out in this world, but the relationship with your parents, man, you only get one set. And so to to have any sort of fracture with that trust, that respect, that relationship, that connection, man. And you just spoke about it like when you when it's.

a positive interaction or when a parent is speaking life into you, that could change your whole perspective. And you remember that, and that was almost 25 years ago. You know what mean? it, it, it lasts a lifetime and he wasn't even speaking to you, right? But that's just a, that's a power in the influence and the impact that parents have. ⁓

Justin King (34:21)
And he wasn't even speaking to me.

He wasn't even speaking to me.

Ryan (34:32)
on their kids, And that's honestly something that I'm actively living through right now. Like I would call my daughters, they have ability, but their perspective and their disposition in sports is a lot different than mine when I was growing up. And very much so like you, my dad was always on me, helicopter parent, yelling. Like we used to get in spats during the game when I was in like midget league. was a whole thing.

but he was always trying to push me because he saw something that was inside of me. through those, I don't know if he was somewhat living through me. I don't know. That's kind of what it felt like at the time. But also he was very much so. And living through me in the most positive form, I think he possibly could. Like it wasn't anything about like, ⁓ you you're going to be an NFL star or anything like that. He was really just trying to make me.

into instilling principles in me to just be a good man. And learning those values through sport, you know what mean? And learning those values through sport.

Justin King (35:31)
I'm going say, as you're preparing, you say as a parent. Yeah, because I'm going say as a parent,

like that whole living through them, like shouldn't a parent be trying to live through you when you're first born? Like what are you here for? You're an extension of them.

Ryan (35:39)
Yeah, I mean, that's all I got. All I can do

is not, and live through you is interesting because like, especially as a parent, like you can only parent based off of your lived experiences. And so in many ways, shapes and forms, I'm speaking life into you through my life and my life experiences, because that's all I know. That's all I know at the end of the day, yeah.

Justin King (36:03)
because they're trying to prepare you.

So they have grace for that. yeah, even that thing of living through them, it's like, yeah, in order live through them, you give them the steps that you did not get. It's having awareness that if you're not equipped to do that, that you find someone that can. You know what I mean? And maybe not in Asia. And that's what gets tricky about the business, that there's a lot of people that come in that look like help.

Ryan (36:20)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Justin King (36:27)
that you don't understand the step two, three in the whole business of where this kind of isolates your kid four years down the line or two years down the line, depending on when this happens. Because when the first thing you get to the NFL rookie symposium, I don't think people realize it, but the first message they get to you is pretty much tell your parents, no, like, yo, this is your money. Like, that's the first thing they tell you when you get to the Yo, this is your money. Regardless of how much your parents invested in you, what everybody else did, this is about you.

Ryan (36:33)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Justin King (36:54)
And then you got the agent saying like, yo, tell your parents no, tell her to just know. then that's a, I don't know if we have.

Ryan (36:58)
But we get programmed and

the first thing you do is like buy your mama house. Like, okay, like why is that a part of the playbook? You know what I'm saying?

Justin King (37:06)
100%. And it's like, why is there a part of Playbook to say not to do that when we're realizing in order for anybody to get to that end of the funnel, you have to have a supportive team, whether it's a parent, whether it's a coach, whether it's an advisor, like you, no one's getting there by themselves. That's why that's the myth that I want to dispel amongst all athletes. mean, cats ain't just falling out of, out of the sky. Yes, there's some physically gifted people, but for everybody to get to the end of the funnel, there are

advocates, advisors, coaches that have helped along the way. And the ones that I think make it sustainably and make it out are the ones where those people are their family assets. That's where I got it from. Cause it's like, yo, the family assets, they don't leave. Like it's a, it's a barrier and it's a protection to the rest of the business. But you also need to attack the business with, you know, with people that understand what's going on. So that's

Ryan (37:41)
Mm-hmm.

Justin King (38:05)
It's an interesting dynamic because it goes into the Jaden Daniels situation, right? Is she doing too much or she's probably always been doing too much and has been validated for doing too much?

Ryan (38:09)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Or

the question is, is she even doing too much?

Justin King (38:18)
That's what I'm saying. Is she doing too much? Right. Because like she actually went, cause she went and got, she's an actual certified agent. Like, so she, she went and learned a little bit of the business. So she got mad. She did something. But then at the same time, I would say, I I just don't, I wouldn't wish a parent to kind of deal with their kid within the industry or the business when you have to see them as a fully commodified product. Because at that point you're compromised and doing your job.

Ryan (38:20)
Yeah, is she doing too much?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it's tough. Yeah, you just have to build a relationship

and trust in, I think, a skill set to evaluate ⁓ who has your child's best interests at heart, whatever they bring to the table.

And that particularly became real to me when I was like, okay, like I can, I'm dad first, right? And my parents, excuse me, my children, you know, they have a hard time being coached by me. And sometimes as children, you just need to hear the message from a different vehicle, right? Particularly a coach, a teacher, it could be somebody different, right? But.

Sometimes very much so like there's that influence and that impact that comes directly from a parent. Sometimes it can be overbearing and a little too much. And sometimes you just need to hear it from a different voice in order for it to click. And that's something that I know I've experienced not only with my relationship with my father, like he could say one thing and another person could tell me the exact same thing, but I receive it better because maybe I just didn't have a good day or like we had, he was yelling at me, whatever it may be.

But sometimes you need to have that voice, that outside influence that again is a trusted resource and has your best interest at heart. ⁓ But I think it really does make a difference, particularly as you go up the ladder and when you start to deal with folks who have ⁓ been working and have built like a career and experience around doing some of these things. ⁓ That's for me, that's where I look at it say like, all right. ⁓

Justin King (40:13)
Right.

Ryan (40:18)
it's one thing to want to protect your child, to be there for your child, to service your child, et cetera. But it always comes down to execution and executing and having the experience in execution. so like, and it's a fine, not even a fine line. It's just a, it's a perspective, right? Like, do you want to learn a job, want to go, right? And your child is your first client as an agent ⁓ or do you, you know, do you, I think just find yourself.

in a position, particularly if you are learning something new for the first time, you might be swimming and that information might be a lot for you to kind of handle. And there may be some missteps along the way. There's no right answer, but just from my perspective, you know, I look at it and I say like, man, I would always just want the best and most qualified folks that I trust and that I believe in to serve and support my child. And sometimes, and this is an ego thing, sometimes that ain't me.

Justin King (40:52)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

Ryan (41:11)
You know what

saying? Sometimes that ain't me. Yes, I have my, I will always have my best, my child's best interests at heart. but at the end of the day, I can't do everything for my child.

Justin King (41:22)
I mean, that's so critical. I mean, I'm working, I'm trying to figure out which archetype I am as a sports dad. You know, I got to, I'm thinking, I think I was on the negative side to begin when she started first playing tennis. I think I was the, I was the, I was the coach from the, no, I was the investor parent, the bad one, where we were like, this is like tennis. We're going here. Like, Hey man, you cash, we out here, you wasting time, you doing this. And then I started to like back off.

Ryan (41:28)
I was going to ask you that, I was going to say, which one are you?

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's cash, bro. Tennis ain't cheap. Yeah, tennis ain't cheap.

Justin King (41:50)
like the intention I started having more fun, like probably a year or two in, and then she started really liking the competition. And then, then I got her with more serious coaching. And then I backed off and was able to just give tidbits, be dead, but still I'm still here to prepare, right? Like, so if I'm there, like I'm talking about how she's moving, technical stuff, not like how she's actually hitting a racket, but like preparation, things that don't take any talent because, and I'm a stickler about that, but like,

Ryan (41:56)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Justin King (42:17)
I'm gonna let Rashid, shout out to Rashid, tennis here in Pittsburgh, in Morrova, but I let Rashid and his dad, Yusef, they take the reins and go with it. But that came with like two or three years of having different coaches and trying out like what's the right fit and understand I'm looking for an open skill set to close skill set. like a philosophy that I had, I had a lot of backing and even me, with my backing in sports, I went and found Rashid as another tennis expert. You know I mean?

Ryan (42:27)
Yeah, you know better than me.

Justin King (42:46)
helps in all this stuff. it's a, I would say probably I'm closer to the investor parent. Yeah. think that, yeah.

Ryan (42:52)
Yeah, no, I mean, there's no wrong or right answer. It's just like,

the more you know, the more you grow. You know what saying? And again, I was very much so, and I think I do fall in that investor parent category. And my oldest plays tennis and my youngest plays volleyball. And my oldest is definitely starting to find her footing as it relates to just like that mental disposition.

that fortitude, that sense of urgency around like practice and commitment and all these other types of things. She started to track that, but my youngest is another story and we're working on that. But what I did find, which was interesting and you just mentioned it, have fun. especially, I mean, her kids, like my youngest is 10 years old. At the end of the day, she's 10, you know I'm saying? And like, she wants to have fun. She wants to do things that are fun that make her laugh and make her smile. And I had this realization maybe about two weeks ago where I was like, man, I just need to play with her more.

Like just go outside, let's play catch. You know what saying? A form of play. So it doesn't feel like work. It feels like play. And even in playing, we could still develop some skills. We could still develop some conditioning. We could still develop some STEM, but we're out here playing, right? We could develop coordination. But it's again about like the method of delivery. Like I was trying to come down like, boom, you know, I was a world-class athlete at one point in time. Let's do this, this, this, this, this, she's 10, bro. She's 10.

Justin King (44:00)
Yeah.

you

Ryan (44:14)
You know what saying? She wants to just go outside and play. She's not ready for all that you trying to deliver to her. And I had to check myself in that moment and really say like, look, you know, like, let's just go outside and play catch. And it worked. It worked.

Justin King (44:15)
Recently the.

That's

real. That's a great way. mean, even in tennis, I used to get on her heart. I like, put more effort into it and things of that nature. And then once I realized for even me, I felt more comfortable to have fun as a player, again, coaches kids stuff, when I knew exactly the technicals of it. That gave me my confidence. I'm like, well, maybe you don't have the technicals right. So I was, again, finding the right coach. And when you get those technicals, then you can have fun. Because she's a little bit of a perfectionist to an extent. She likes to do things right. You know what mean?

Ryan (44:44)
Mm-hmm.

Justin King (44:55)
But yes, can check in even your kid's temperature. I mean, she started playing tennis. She's playing soccer early. And I remember we went out training and I was like trying to get her tough enough because she was playing with boys. I play some hard defense on her, trying to check her competitive nature. And I started talking stuff. I was like, you ain't going to do that to the dude out there. You ain't do that. And she like bit me. I was like, yeah, I got one. I got live wire so I can at least build. ⁓ Just a little flash. ⁓

Ryan (44:55)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yes, Yup, yeah, all I'm looking for is that little flash, that little spark that we,

yeah, just show me something. And as long as I see something, we could take the next step. Because that's all you could really ever take is one step at a time and get that spark, man. Well, this was dope, bro. Like, man, I think it's really important for parents to know that one, you know, and you know,

Justin King (45:24)
So be so, so be you.

could take the day.

That's it. Nah, that's really.

Ryan (45:42)
both being parents, sometimes you feel like it's never enough, it's never gonna end, I'm doing a terrible job, or you feel like I'm not doing enough, et cetera. But just wanna send a shout out to all the parents out there, man, just keep doing the work one day at a time, because it takes time, right? Building a body of work, getting to that destination, whether it be college, whether it be pros, it takes time, and it takes commitment, and how you show up for your children, as Justin mentioned, as I mentioned.

⁓ those experiences, those lessons, ⁓ those values, and really the life that's poured into your children from a words perspective, they last a lifetime. And as I said here, I was 40 years old, I still remember everything that my father taught me, the good, the bad, and the ugly, right? But it all kind of shaped and molded me to be right where I am, and I wouldn't want to be anywhere else, man, so.

⁓ Any final or parting words for all the parents out there? Regardless of what type of parent you are, man, you got any final words for these parents that are listening to us?

Justin King (46:48)
I do. The business is nasty and unforgiving. The thing the players and athletes need the most are family assets. And that's what you guys can serve as if you're going through and understanding the ways that you can actually provide the help, whether it's seeking out the right knowledge or groups like us at LIG Sports Group, a recruiting masterclass so that you guys have the information. And so you're not putting your kid in the position of and in harm's way thinking that you're doing something right.

Ryan (46:52)
Mm.

Justin King (47:16)
is just trying to clarify all these things because the business is set up to commoditize your kid and turn them into a product and not be a human. The last thing they need is for you to treat them as a product as well. So as you guys go through this, man, make sure you guys check out LIG Sports Group. I'm Justin King, Blue Chip Academy. Sign up, get all this good information, free game. ⁓ yeah, lock in, man. This is.

Ryan (47:28)
Yep, that's a good point.

Justin King (47:38)
This is a trying time in athlete development and it goes beyond just the sport. We're talking about using sports as a catalyst to career you can bank on and you guys are the leaders until they turn 18. And even then they still need your support, like I said, it's a long path.

Ryan (47:54)
It never ends. never ends.

Well, cool, man. We'll see y'all next week. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Blue Chip Academy. Hope y'all be well. We'll check y'all out soon. Peace.

Justin King (48:06)
Hey, Ace.