Working out the Kinks with Tash the Doula

Navigating Infant Feeding: Wisdom from Lactation Consultant Tiffany Slade

• Tashthedoula • Season 4 • Episode 1

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When Tiffany Slade from Birthing Boldly LLC sat down with us, the air was thick with the kind of wisdom only a seasoned lactation consultant and student midwife can bring to the table. Our enriching conversation delved into the heart of feeding choices for new mothers—a decision enmeshed with heritage, health, and the unbreakable bond between mother and child. Breast milk, with its dynamic nutrition profile, stands unparalleled in benefiting both parties, but Tiffany sheds light on how the formula can be a respectable second when circumstances dictate its necessity. The thread that weaves through it all is the undying need for empathy and support towards every mother's unique path.

As the dialogue unfolds, it becomes clear that feeding one's baby transcends the method—it's about the nourishment of both body and soul within the familial cocoon. Tiffany's journey, a testament to the power of education and empowerment, paints a picture of a mother nursing her child into toddlerhood, all the while fostering a thriving bond. In the practical realms, we sift through the myriad of formula and breast pump options, underscoring the importance of tuning into our babies' cues to promote a healthy feeding rhythm. This episode stands as a beacon for mothers navigating the often turbulent waters of infant feeding, encouraging self-grace and offering a compass of practical wisdom.

Tash the Doula:

All right, everyone, Welcome to season four of Working Out the Kinks, the podcast with Tash the Doula. And today we have Tiffany Slade from Birthing Boldly LLC here and she's going to talk to us today about, you know, the topic of breastfeeding versus formula feeding and you know, sometimes I could be a little controversial. I don't know why, I don't know as long as a baby's fed, but you know we're going to shoot it to her and she's going to talk about her company and what she does.

Tiffany Slade:

So Tiffany hey everybody. So my name is Tiffany. I'm born and raised in North Carolina. I'm the owner of Birthing Boldly. This business was created in April of 2020.

Tiffany Slade:

I've been working with families for over 12 years, so that's always been a passion of mine to work with families and I've been working with various backgrounds in different ways. I'm a lactation consultant, student, midwife. I'll be graduating in December. Congratulations, thank you. It's been a journey, but a good journey as well as a full spectrum doula so fertility, birth, postpartum and a childbirth educator All the different things. So different types of perinatal education as well, like newborn care and postpartum care as well.

Tiffany Slade:

But I've always wanted to work with families. It was a passion of mine to be a midwife. I just came into lactation I'm not going to say I fell in my hands, but working with families in the hospital with lactation and then nursing my own child. I have four kids, so my oldest I had at a young age, fully nursed him and did well, but was the first person in my family to breastfeed. So it was new for everybody and it was a journey. It was a good journey, but it still was a journey of learning and also teaching family as time went on. So that kind of developed my passion with lactation and then circled back to midwifery and all the things working with moms and babies and families, love, all of it.

Tash the Doula:

That sounds pretty awesome. I mean you have all the initials behind your name. I mean, listening to your story, the first thing you kind of picked up, you said that you was the first one in your family to breastfeed. And I'm kind of curious, do you? Why, do you think that you may have been the first?

Tiffany Slade:

I don't know, it's just. I feel like it was just innate in me to always be curious about birth and breastfeeding Like I can remember as early as like before even being in school, like very little, like maybe five or six, like wanting to watch birth and shows and was curious about the aspect of delivering outside of a hospital. So not in a bad , because my family fostered my learning, but they always joke like she's the odd one and the different one out the family, like she doesn't think like this that's what they would say, which they still say but not in a bad way. So, as a first to breastfeed, I was the first not to have a natural childbirth because my mother and my grandmother's both had natural childbirth, but they all delivered in hospitals, whereas I did with three out of four of my children, I did birth center for most of them. So it's just always been like ingrained in me in an instinct to be curious and interested in this.

Tiffany Slade:

I will say I'll talk to my mom about breastfeeding because as I went on with having children and my family learned more, I remember my dad just being like Well, this is like super beneficial, like why you didn't do it, and she was just like that one for me. So I don't know like truly what it was. But you do kind of look at our history and our ancestors for the back breastfed. But as time went on it was almost shunned when you looked at our community because there was so much trauma for my history of nursing. So I feel like some of that medicine came from that, because both my grandmother's had large families, like one had 16, one had 12 kids, so they had large families.

Tash the Doula:

No, that's actually something to think about, like, you know, like generational trauma when it comes to breastfeeding everything kind of gets tied down to our history. But we're not gonna, I guess, delve too far into that because that wasn't even the topic. I just asked a question. So you know I'm a part of all these different groups because, you know, being a doula, you know you jump into the lactation groups, you jump into like mothering groups kind of like you know, get a feel of like your community and something that I've noticed in certain groups. You know that sometimes there is this breastfeeding versus formative feeding fight and personally I do think breastfeeding is better, but if the mom can't, then or chooses not to. You know, formula feeding isn't terrible. So I guess what the question is is there really like a difference between the two, as in like the baby getting enough nutrition, or even like the bonding aspect of it?

Tiffany Slade:

Yeah, so it is the difference and I'm all there for how you worded it. It's like the groups they can be persuaded different ways depending on what group you're in. So, just looking at the nutritional facts, breastfeeding and breast milk is better for the infant and the mother. So of course you have the bonding, which is good, but also the protection on moms from like cervical cancer, the issues they're having later on in life, the breast cancer, even the child, like asthma infections, ear infections, diabetes, like you know. Tons of benefits that way.

Tiffany Slade:

But also the nutritional benefit because our bodies make perfect milk for our babies. So the milk we have, from like day one to day five to one month old, even to toddler, is consistently changing. It's never the same because babies go through many different growth spurts and different nutritional needs and so the breast milk changes to meet those needs and the calories aren't set. So a formula depending on what formula you buy, you're gonna have that set amount of calories when mom's milk changes calories. So it's never one set amount of calories because it's with the baby needs at that point in time.

Tash the Doula:

Right.

Tiffany Slade:

I bought it.

Tash the Doula:

It's so amazing, so I mean it is. It's like you know. I've heard stories of, you know, a baby being sick and like the mom's milk would change to give the baby the correct nutrients and it needs to feel better.

Tiffany Slade:

Yes, it does. And then I know a lot of people, especially with COVID. You know it's all that controversy like separating moms and babies and it's like before mama even knows she's sick, with any sickness, her body has already started making milk, giving it to that baby before anybody knew anything, so that baby is protected beforehand and it's just our bodies being so amazing and able to do that. Now, when it comes to formula, it is different types of formula based on the child and what their needs are, because different babies have different metabolic issues that may need different type of formulas.

Tiffany Slade:

So I do feel like there is a place for formula, because all moms have a choice and some moms don't prefer to breastfeed or aren't able to breastfeed or you know any situation. So I think there is a place for formula. Of course they try to market it just like breast milk. It's not just like breast milk. They try to get it as close to breast milk because they can, mainly with synthetic properties. But it's not breast milk, but it's needed if a mom is not going to give breast milk to her baby.

Tash the Doula:

Absolutely so. What are the phases of breast milk? Because I know like it. Like you said, it changes between day to day. You know when the baby first gets here.

Tiffany Slade:

So when the when you first deliver the baby, then you deliver the placenta. The delivery of the placenta causes the prolactin levels to increase. So you have colostrum in the beginning. Your body's making milk while you're pregnant. So usually around 16 weeks, your body's making milk, whether you're leaking or not. So because some moms worry about that, so it's there but you don't usually see it in abundance until later on and after you deliver the baby in placenta.

Tiffany Slade:

So you have, in the beginning, colostrum really measured in small amounts. So where we measure milk in like ounces, that's more like teaspoons, is the yellow tons of antibiotics to baby because they're coming into a new environment. So that's that protection form. They don't need a lot of it in the beginning. Their stomachs are super small, like the size of a small marble, and then you have transitional milk, which is usually between day two day five. Everybody's lactogenesis could be a little bit different, but that's generally when it starts transitioning over, and that is when it's transitioning from the colostrum, moving to the mature milk, and mature milk is typically white, like cow's milk we drink, and you will have mature milk anywhere from one week throughout your breastfeeding journey, and all of those types of milk still changes depending on the baby's needs.

Tash the Doula:

Right, absolutely. Thank you so much for that breakdown. Just in case you know, people might need like a pick me up or just like, okay, so why does the milk change colors? And like, that's pretty much why it's just you know it changes for what the baby truly needs at that moment. So I have another question for you. So you know, I've had a couple clients myself at this point who have planned to breastfeed and then unfortunately, like the milk just does not come in the way how they want it to. So then they decide to formula feed, just fine, but then sometimes they like feel guilty about that or they feel shame about it. Personally, how would you go about dealing with a parent, a mom, who is going through that situation?

Tiffany Slade:

First with all my family. I give them the disclaimer that and not saying it's like this with everybody. But I've been doing this for a while and been around a lot of lactation consultants and some of them can be super pushy and I feel like the ones that are that way. That causes moms to become more withdrawn and they don't feel like they have that open dialogue to speak freely because they feel like they're being judged. So that is like my first disclaimer I make my families.

Tiffany Slade:

I'm like breast, breast milk and breastfeeding is good for your baby. It's the best, but is your decision and what you want to do for your baby is what matters. So I always say like I don't want any hungry babies and I don't want any stressed out mamas, because the mental health can take a president over everything, because if she's not in the right mind frame then she can't do anything for her baby. So I always make that disclaimer to them and I allow families to tell me their goals and I just work best with them to get them to their goal. Because everybody's nursing journey looks different. I assure them that whatever nursing looks like for them, whether that's latching a baby or solely pumping donor milk, however you want your journey to look, it is okay because it is your journey, and I remind families to have a grace with yourself.

Tiffany Slade:

Just especially women anywhere. We're hard on ourselves with anything, but especially when it comes to motherhood, and having grace with yourself can be hard but rewarding at the end, because if you're like beating yourself up, it just makes it way more harder. Some offer babies just being fed and the overall family dynamic to be working, so they feel supported and nine times out of 10, working with families and I make this disclaimer they're more open to me, they talk to me and even the ones that started out not breastfeed to or kind of on the fence, are typically fully breastfeeding without even realizing it, because their guard is let down and they can be fully open with you and thank you for saying that like, like that's probably one of my favorite phrases Like, no matter where you are in life, just give yourself grace, because I'm like you know you kind of have to.

Tash the Doula:

People hold themselves up to like this expectation of what motherhood is and what they expect it to be, and then sometimes, when you actually reach that goal, it can be quite different. So, you know, I had this one particular client and you know she felt so bad because she just felt like you know the way I feel about her, it was her second time going in and she felt like she faile d and I was like is this tummy full? Is he, is he content? Is he happy? Then you, then you succeeded, you're okay. You succeeded Like you did exactly what you had to do, yeah, and it's okay.

Tiffany Slade:

I just like my mom didn't breastfeed me and I turned out okay. So you know it kind of goes on, can't just solely look at one thing. You got to meet the family where they are. Yeah, exactly.

Tash the Doula:

So, that being said, if we are meeting people where they are, this is like a two point question what would be your top three formulas? Because there's different companies out there and there's different things added, like you mentioned before, like synthetic things that's added to these different formulas and they can be a little bit confusing. And then now there's like a liquid formula too. So it's just like what would be the best to grab if you are from family feeding your child and then if you are breastfeeding and you're using a breast pump, because they, you know, it's like the electric breast pumps, there's like a hoka. So it's like the best to grab if I was breastfeeding.

Tiffany Slade:

I answered the formula question first. So of course, with being a BLC, like our code of conduct and things, we can't promote certain things and all the formulas I would say as far as if you have the basic formulas like infamil, semilec, gerber, they're all basis about the same as far as properties, that's within it, and when you get into like organic formula, like goat milk formula based, those would differ some. So it depends on the parent and what they're looking for. So I always tell parents, especially if we can. I can meet them during pregnancy and before the baby's, even here, and families have the idea of what they see for their family and what they will want their baby to have and some of them prefer goat milk or something like that. So I have them do their research and find out what works best for their families.

Tiffany Slade:

I recommend a certain type of formula.

Tiffany Slade:

Now, if I have babies having certain issues where it's like brief looks or gas, or where they need a hyperallergenic formula like Alameda or something like that, then that's different of course, because they're going to have to work with the dietician, get prescriptions and those types of things.

Tiffany Slade:

But in that basis I just leave it to families to kind of figure out what works best for them and do their research. When it comes down to pumps, I will say I don't recommend a certain pump because everybody's body reacts differently to pump. But in my years of doing this I have seen I would say, the top three brands that works with families is the Medela and Spectra, and hands free is usually on Willow or Elvie. Those two families really like those as far as a hands free brand. But when it comes to the Haka, I do like the Haka and I suggest families to get a Haka or a manual pump, even if they don't have an electric pump right away, just because that's a nice easy way to be able to store milk without having to put a lot of effort right away into it. And I like for, if a mom's goal is to latch, to mainly latch those first few weeks.

Tash the Doula:

I haven't got one. You know, yeah, I've heard women say that like the Hawkeyes, kind of like a little saving grace, you know, just kind of just put it on there and it just the body is, do the body do? So I just kind of asked. So here's another one, and I hope that you know I'm not just reading into like a lot of different things, but I'm like you know what. I have somebody who is a consultant so she would know I've read somewhere that babies who tend to be formula fed tend to be overfed. And is there, have you seen anything like that, like you know, actually working around women who are feeding their babies?

Tiffany Slade:

So formula babies can be overfed. But mainly what is the overfeeding issue is the bottle and the bottle or nipple, not necessarily what's in the bottle, because I have seen breastfed babies be overfed as well If they're getting primarily bottles or getting some bottles, and that's just because that nipple that's on the bottle. Typically they mark a different type of bottle, the course, but none of them are exactly like our nipple and typically the bottle nipple will reach all the way back into the baby's mouth to hit their reflex and make them keep sucking, whereas nipple doesn't. So the baby is able to see and feel when they're full on their own and stop eating and kind of fall off the sleep or relax. So I encourage pace feeding, whether they're mainly breastfeeding or given formula or just using bottles here and there. That pace feeding helps to cause babies not to overeat but also teaching baby stomach sizes so they know how much that they should be putting in the bottle and kind of watching baby for to make sure it's not an overfeeding issue.

Tiffany Slade:

Now, with all that being said, I will say, because babies digest formula different from breast milk and the calories don't change in formula like it does in breast milk, then you will see formula fed babies the amount of ounces usually increase as they get a little bit older, whereas breast fed babies, if they're getting their breast milk, it can cap off anywhere between like two and a half to three and a half ounces at four month, at one month, all the way up, and sometime that can deviate and be a little bit more. But that's usually like the average across the board. So I think education just comes in the play. If you can get with a family and educate them on it, then they'll see that the babies usually been overfed. Now if they've already stretched the baby stomach out, then that's another whole ball thing. You're not going to have a baby that's used to getting like seven, eight ounces. Go back down to four ounces and be happy with you. That's right.

Tiffany Slade:

Yeah, that's gonna be some work. They used to the eight ounces.

Tash the Doula:

And since you already kind of mentioned, like you know, like when a baby is first born, excuse me, you mentioned that you know the baby stomach is about the size of a marble. Would you mind going over the sizes of baby stomachs?

Tiffany Slade:

So around a day old is about five to seven milliliters the baby can take. By the time they're a week old usually about an ounce. It kind of jumps up but slowly. They do a lot of cluster feeding between that day two to day five. And that's going to be mainly if you can latch in the baby and watch and feed and keys even if it seems like they're latching often. That's fine, that's helping that mature milk come in as well. And then around two weeks old they can be anywhere from one to two ounces, just dependent on the baby. And about four weeks old, that's when they're at that stage of being anywhere from two and a half to three and a half ounces and that kind of stays there. Now I have seen some fully breastfed babies be around four to five ounces. It kind of depends on what the family's been given up to, but usually two and a half to three and a half ounces is that good safe spot.

Tash the Doula:

All right. So, before I let you go, as I say, first of all, thank you for being here and also just being just talking and giving us everything that we need, because I appreciate it, because it's really hard to get people to come on here and like talk about their experience or just, like you know, being able to so nicely put everything you say into a way that's super comprehensive for anyone to understand. So thank you for that. So, if anyone let you go, I would like to ask you have any type of success story that you can share with us?

Tiffany Slade:

Yes, are you wanting one with breastfeeding and formula? A little bit about.

Tash the Doula:

Um, well, not a little bit of both, because you know I don't why I have names episode breastfeeding versus formula feeding. I don't think it should really be a versus, it should be you know whatever makes that baby happy. But yeah, go on.

Tiffany Slade:

Good, okay, um, so I have tons of stories on both ways where families have necessarily not been sure. I've had a navigate, I will say in particular because this will help go over digestion differences as well. Um, I've had a family be concerned like her goal was to do a little bit of both. She primarily breastfed, but she was mainly she was really concerned because she offered formula and baby stay for longer with the formula. So there was a lot of doubt in her body that she thought something was wrong with her while the formula filled up the baby and her breast milk didn't.

Tiffany Slade:

So tons of education with explaining that babies digest breast milk and formula different. So breast milk is all natural. Babies get it. It doesn't stand the intestines long, so they put it right out. That's why it's more watery and more liquidy. It's not form as much, whereas when babies get formula that's man made so it sits in the intestines a little bit longer and while it's sitting in the intestines is the intestines are drawing more water from the um, the school and then when they put this, more form and usually a darker color and she didn't still be hard, but for me you can still push it down but form and I feel like after providing the education, she knew baby when constipated because that's something she was worried about and she understood why the baby seemed full longer, because it was just sitting in the baby stomach.

Tiffany Slade:

The formula was, so she went on to recipe no issues, she's a couple of minutes here, there, just as you needed to. But she felt more empowered by her journey because she had the education, the back and understand what was going on. And she nurse even past the baby being one years old. At that point she didn't give any formula. But, yeah, a beautiful experience, no major concerns, and got a happy, healthy toddler still latching on to the baby.

Tash the Doula:

Thank you so much for telling that story and just sharing your time with us. I think right now might be the perfect time to end this episode. So, guys, you have any questions? How can they reach you? Tiffany at birthing.

Tiffany Slade:

Thank you so much for coming in and spending time with us. Guys, we're going to go ahead and wrap it up. If you have any questions, please reach out to us.

Tash the Doula:

And you all have a wonderful day.