Inside The $200B MBS Push And The Ban On Wall Street Home Buys

A half point can change behavior, but real affordability is still a math problem. We dig into the noise and the numbers around two big headlines: a $200B directive for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to buy mortgage‑backed securities, and a move to limit large institutional buyers from competing for single‑family homes. With mortgage pro John Hudson and investor‑broker Colin Corrington, we unpack what might actually move payments, supply, and buyer psychology—and what’s just selling sizzle.

We break down how added MBS demand can nudge rates lower and why that effect is likely modest and delayed. Then we zoom out to the cost stack that really strains buyers: rising property taxes, spiking homeowners insurance, and consumer debts that outweigh latte math. You’ll hear practical strategies that beat chasing price cuts—maximizing seller concessions to buy your rate down, using closing credits to reduce cash‑to‑close, and tapping down payment assistance programs many lenders never promote. We also challenge the “Wall Street bought all the homes” myth with data showing mom‑and‑pop owners dominate single‑family rentals, and we explore where a targeted curb could help or harm, especially in concentrated metros.

If you’re a first‑time buyer, a seller weighing incentives, or an agent advising clients, this conversation is a playbook: structure smarter deals, set sane expectations, and focus on the only number that matters—your monthly payment. Forget timing the market. Marry the house, date the rate, and engineer a plan that works today with room to refinance tomorrow.

Enjoyed the conversation? Subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a quick review to help more people find the show. Tell us: what’s your biggest hurdle to buying right now?

Transcript

Cold Open: Daily Improvement Challenge

SPEAKER_00 0:00

At the end of every day, look at yourself in the mirror and ask, did I get better today? Monday, get better. Tuesday, get better. Wednesday, get better. If you do that for five years, ten years, fifteen years, how much better will you be? Are you getting better every single day? That's the real question. And it all comes down to taking small steps. You don't have to accomplish everything in one day or even one week. Just focus on getting a little better every single day.

Mark Jones 0:38

And welcome back to another episode of Real Estate AF, where the AF stands for and finance, and I'm your host, Mark Jones, and we are powered by LoneBot, Smarter Mortgage Matching, and now available on the App Store and Google Play. And today's topic, guys, we're going to be getting into some granular things that have been in the media. Some folks have been asking, what does it all mean? And some have already formulated their opinions based on the person that announced it. And we'd like to kind of shed some light on that today. So I've brought along two guests that are pretty intellectual and very well articulate in regards to topics like this. And what we're going to be talking about is Donald Trump and the announcement that he's made and some actions that he's taken to possibly, potentially help the housing market and the first-time home buyers. So without further ado, let me introduce my guests. Let me first introduce John Hudson. Welcome back. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. You matter of fact, you and Dylan Shively are among the top two that have been on this show, and you guys bring the fire every time.

Guest Intros: John And Colin

SPEAKER_02 1:47

It's it's always a pleasure to be back here, Mark. I love talking housing, obviously, right? I'm a mortgage dork. Maybe a better way to put it, right? So, but but I'm passionate about it. Passion gives us power.

Mark Jones 1:57

That's exactly correct. And then we have our second guest, Colin. Last name. Corrington. Corrington. My apologies, Colin. Tell us about yourself, man. And the reason being is no one knows who you are from my show, so to speak.

SPEAKER_03 2:10

So please give us the long form. The long form. Well, man, how far back do we go? I was born on a hot day in August and back in the 1900s. No, I a real estate broker is what I do. We actually have a real estate brokerage that is focused around being an investor. Okay. Um, I was telling John when he stepped out earlier that I actually held my Series 6, 63, and 26 for about 15 years. Got really into investing. Uh, once you kind of figured out that real estate's where it's at when it comes to it, uh that's kind of where I put my whole focus into it. Plus, the SEC got mad at me for the amount of hard money loans I had out at the same time. They told me I had to clean that up or get rid of my license. I was like, I'm not using it anyway.

Mark Jones 2:49

No, I remember having mine as well. I was with Chase Bank, wasn't actually doing investments, I was just referring it out. But we had to go through that whole process.

SPEAKER_03 2:57

I was with City, kind of the same thing. I would do some on my own. But then we started a little brokerage because most brokerages don't like investors. And I it sounds weird, but I I started off as an investor, and you need a lot of data to be a good investor. Yeah. And not to sound rude, but about 90% of real estate agents are just idiots and they don't understand what I'm trying to do here. And I was like, I can pass a test. So I went to the test, and one thing led to another. Now I'm a broker, and we have probably 70 agents that that are all investor-minded that kind of come and work with us. And very good. So that's kind of my background in the real estate. Local here in San Antonio, right there off of uh North New Bronfels over off the past.

Trump’s $200B MBS Plan Explained

Mark Jones 3:34

Okay, people to know. Well, you're in here now, and we are going to kick this topic off. And I wanted to play a quick video to kind of give it a bit of uh context. So without further ado, this is Meet Kevin. Those of you out there, I'll have the link in the description for you to like, subscribe, and join his channel as well.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

And if you want more affordability, vote for Donald this upcoming midterm election because we need we need to keep control. If you want your checks, you need to keep control with Republicans. Donald Trump is officially directing Fanny and Freddie to buy$200 billion of mortgage-backed securities. Now, hold on. Let me tell you more about this after I move my cashews and almonds off my desk since all these carnivore people get triggered by that. I just like nuts. We have Donald Trump announcing, yes indeed,$200 billion. Now, here's roughly how that plays out. Because Fannie and Freddie don't actually have$200 billion, they're going to have to create some kind or come up with some kind of creative manner to get their hands on that money, which likely means they're going to have to utilize the equity in their portfolios to issue debt because they do not have the cash sitting around. Now, I will explain this in detail, but Donald Trump says that practically this will drive mortgage rates down, monthly payments down, and therefore the cost of owning a home down, making it more affordable. This is part of his populist branding to make life more affordable. Because we all know that when the government gets involved, things always get more affordable. Never mind.

Mark Jones 5:24

So that was uh I love that. I love that last week. Exactly. So that being the case, we'll start with the announcement of the$200 billion in mortgage-backed securities that Fanny and Freddie are being directed to purchase. Would any of you like to break that down for us?

SPEAKER_02 5:42

Yeah, I'll I'll I'll jump in. Fantastic. Here's what I'll say real quick. You know, the mortgage affordable or the housing affordability problem is not a political problem, it's a math problem. Amen. Plain and simple. And so, you know, for for regardless of what side of the aisle people sit on, at least this administration is bringing housing to the forefront. Yes. Because it's been ignored for many, many, many previous administrations, and nobody wants to talk about how affordably it got worse under previous administrations. That's correct. That's correct. So props to the Trump administration for bringing this up. Now, what I'll also say, some of their ideas misguided and absolutely absolutely they're not be the first to say that. They don't know not everybody that's throwing out ideas up there, I think, is a housing professional. Correct. Throw that out there. Mr. Poultine, for you know, for example. But but I will say this you know, the purchasing more well, mortgage rates are created, right, based off of the demand for mortgage-backed securities. It's a simple supply, law of supply and demand. If there's more supply and less demand, then you have to do something to attract investors, right? That's right, which is what raise yields. So in this case, if the GSEs, Fanny and Freddie, are going to be buying mortgage-backed securities, you know, in addition to the private market, then it lowers the supply and increases the demand, which is going to lower the yields and bring down mortgage rates. Now, how much of a dent will it make? Yeah. That's it, that remains to be seen. Right. But at least it's something.

Mark Jones 7:18

I agree.

SPEAKER_02 7:19

And it's not going back to what the Federal Reserve did when they were buying over a trillion dollars of mortgage-backed securities, which drove rates down into the threes. This$200,$200 billion, it's a it's a it's a it's a shot. It's a little injection, it'll help a little bit, but it's not a long-term fix. Correct.

Mark Jones 7:37

Correct. And and in essence, it is, like you said, attracting more investors towards those mortgage-backed securities. I mean, it increases that demand. If they're buying more of them, therefore that's going to come down a bit.

SPEAKER_02 7:50

Correct.

Mark Jones 7:51

In theory, you know?

SPEAKER_02 7:52

In in theory, and and we did see that when the announcement came out. I mean, we we did see mortgage rates come down a little bit, which was nice. Now, at the same time, too, what this gentleman was putting out there, he makes it sound like this is a brand new thing. Well, in reality, Annie and Freddie, they were already buying mortgage-backed security. That's right. Just not to this degree.

Will It Lower Rates And When?

Mark Jones 8:10

That's correct. And thank you for saying that, because it is perspective when we're hearing uh videos like this, we're seeing headlines of some sorts. Folks want to run with that theory, but not taking a step back to understand that this is what has always been done in in many aspects of how we help things, especially for these first-time home buyer situations.

SPEAKER_02 8:32

Right. And you know, and again, just kudos to the administration for trying to do something. Right. Right.

Mark Jones 8:38

Now I've done plenty of research on this, and we know that headlines move markets initially. You're always gonna get that spurt of of speculation one way or another. They're trying to get another curve. Yeah. But this kind of action still has to go through the proper channels, still has to have the money moved around, still has to prop itself. So I'm thinking, and you guys can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm thinking that we're not gonna actually feel the true long-term effect from this for about another month.

SPEAKER_02 9:13

I yeah, I think that's accurate. I mean, you you saw the initial movement, right, based off the headline. And yeah, MBS still needs to be issued. Yep, and MBS needs to be purchased. It's gonna take a little while.

SPEAKER_03 9:23

I was gonna say, I think it'll be longer than a month. And I I honestly I have to defer to John on this one because he knows the secondary market way better than anybody else. But I just to spur another question on this it is leveraging their equity and their positions, is that gonna create an undue stress on them? Because that that's my concern about this entire thing. If they've they've got more debt, more things they've got to pay out. I know they're running razor thin as well.

Mark Jones 9:46

Well, uh to my knowledge, to my understanding, and and you guys can correct me, and we can also check it with ChatGPT, but they're using funds that are already sitting on the reserves. They're not going and creating new debt, they're not printing more money, they're not taking out additional loans to pay for the money that they're to pay for the purchases of these. This is just money that they're now moving around, earmarked for nothing that they can deploy.

SPEAKER_03 10:10

Uh to my understanding. I might have misunderstood the video because I thought he said that they were gonna have to leverage some of the he said that, but but I don't believe it at all.

SPEAKER_02 10:17

I don't believe it either. But that that's the first I heard anybody say that.

SPEAKER_03 10:20

But I was like, wait a minute, if we're gonna leverage out the little profit we do have into this, right?

Mark Jones 10:25

I was like, this is that's gonna be it seems super detrimental to what the correct stuff they have cash.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

So we can get into a to a whole show on the GSEs because I think that in my opinion, they'll never go truly public. Right. And A, you know, B, number two, they shouldn't go public because they are literal cash cows for the U.S. Treasury. That's right. Now, what the Federal Reserve was doing was they were printing money to buy mortgage-backed securities. That's right. So that created the the Ponzi scheme of they were quantitative easing.

SPEAKER_03 10:56

They were quantitative easing.

Mark Jones 10:57

They weren't printing money. We were easing money. Well, that's not a recession. That's not what that is. Right.

Mortgage Insurance Costs And FHA Math

SPEAKER_02 11:02

But we're two months in a month. Where Fannie and Freddie, I mean, they they have they really do have more cash sitting around than they know what to do with. So this isn't going to deplete all of their reserves. That's just a little bit misguided there. I mean, this the Fannie and Freddie are in great positions, you know, cash-wise, and you know, even with with the faults where they're at increasing, right? They're still at near record lows. So their cash reserves are absolutely fine.

SPEAKER_03 11:29

Yeah. Yeah. If they've got the cash, then yeah, pump it in there and let's let's see if we can get that market moving. Absolutely.

Mark Jones 11:34

Especially if it's a small portion of it, then I mean I've got a I've got a question for you guys, and I just thought of this right now, it's not even on the agenda. But if we're talking about home affordability and it being a tiny gap that interest rates can solve, let's say a half of a point or so, and now everybody gets triggered back into the market because they see a five in front of it instead of a six. What if there was some type of, I don't know, campaign movement push to correct some of the mortgage insurance practices that are attack taking place right now? And mind you, we know mortgage insurance is collected because you're not putting 20% down. They're there to insure the property if you go belly up. But if you look at the amount of foreclosures, or I should say the lack of foreclosures, what are they doing with that money? And therefore, giving me the concept of if most folks have 150 bucks in mortgage insurance every month and it drops to 25, there's our extra money for somebody to afford without even touching rates, without touching the market, etc.

SPEAKER_02 12:47

Yeah. No, no, no.

Mark Jones 12:48

I mean is that wild?

SPEAKER_02 12:50

It's not completely wild. So on conventional loans, right? Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Yeah. So mortgage insurance companies are publicly traded. So they are for-profit entities. And so I don't see you're you're not going to be able to get a government mandate necessarily to lower more mortgage insurance on conventional loans. Now, what that what Fannie and Freddie could do is re you know, re-evaluate loan level price adjustments, LLP credit, credits, credit score risk, loan to value risk, what type of property risk, loan amount risk. I mean, you you you name it, that would be the easiest path to I think lowering pricing for consumers there.

Mark Jones 13:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

Now on the FHA side of the coin, then you know, right. I mean, right now consumers are paying 0.55 for mortgage insurance plus an upfront fee. Correct. MI should be lowered on FHA, and it could be. So even though all the head, the the headlines, you know, that they're they're selling the blood. Yeah. There's, you know, they're selling the calamity. They're saying, oh, look at all these defaults. They're they're up 200%. Well, yeah, that's because it went from when it goes from one to two, that's 200%.

SPEAKER_03 13:55

You're looking at it as a lender, not as an insurance company. And the insurance company is going to find every possible way to increase a premium. And you know they're investing all that money. That money never sets. That was what triggered the insurance company. Obviously, I'm not particularly familiar with them, but every other insurance company is investing all of these premiums to get these bigger returns for their people.

Mark Jones 14:15

John mentioned Cash Cow, and immediately I thought, MI is a huge cash cow. Like, how often do they have to such a rip?

SPEAKER_02 14:22

Yeah, absolutely. The the the the FHA, for example, that they're so far past their minimum reserves, mandatory reserves, that they they do have room to reduce them. Now, will they? I don't know. I don't believe so.

SPEAKER_03 14:34

Has your insurance ever gone down, Sean? No. Well, after you turn 25, obviously, has it ever gone down? Not with my driving record. Yeah, I was gonna say, like your home insurance has never gone down, your life insurance, like everything is just constantly clicking up. So I as much as it makes sense, the insurance companies, in my opinion, are extremely greedy. I mean, when's the last time you had an insurance company say, Yeah, I'm gonna pay your, I'm gonna pay you out? Yeah, yeah, right. We're gonna pay your claim. No, it's a constant fight, it's a constant.

SPEAKER_02 14:58

Yeah, and with the case with with FHA mortgage insurance, I mean, this is the government, right? So yeah, they're definitely not gonna bring them down. Right. Even though they've never known a tax to go down, even though they've got the taxes.

SPEAKER_03 15:08

Same year. Same year. Yeah, never they go up every single time. Right.

SPEAKER_02 15:13

So, and that's why that's why all of this comes into, right? It's not just one thing that's gonna solve affordability, it's little pieces from all over the map. Right, right. That's how we fix affordability in the long run.

Budget Reality: Payments, DTI, Expectations

SPEAKER_03 15:24

Yeah, to your point that you made earlier, like the adjustment of like, you know, the debt to income and all those kind of things, that makes me a little bit nervous because that's kind of how 08 happened, right? All the ninja loans and all of that stuff happening, and you get people a little too extended. And so that Dodd Frank and all that stuff that came out afterwards really tightened everything. The pendulum swung, and I agree, it needs to be eased up a little bit, but I feel like that's a really slippery slope. I don't want to it comes off on borderline elitist because it's like you need to be able to afford a house before you can buy a house.

Mark Jones 15:52

Like you're I don't think that's elitist at all. I mean honestly, and the reason why I say that is I am tired of getting I'm still producing, John producing, getting the pushback from a borrower that's first time trying to buy a$400,000 house and wanting a$2,500 payment because that's what it was back in 2020. Right. Well, guys, it's time to reset your budget, your expectations, what you can actually get for your money or what you think you can afford monthly because can you qualify? Sure, but you don't want to because the payment is too high. I get it. That's what the payment is for that home. And I'll get the question every single time. Well, how do I lower that? Well, there's a couple of ways, but the only one that makes the most sense is find a cheaper home.

SPEAKER_02 16:44

Yeah. Yeah. It's it's your$4 a day Starbucks habit. You know, that's right. The$4 coffees isn't hurting your affordability. It's your$800 car payment.

SPEAKER_03 16:52

Yes. Yes. And it's your it's your$4,000 mortgage payment.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

It's like get a smaller house. It it is, you know, that this is where the downfall, you know, of I think social media is not everyone's ready to live like a Kardashian. Yeah. And what's all over the world? Or not all influencers.

Mark Jones 17:06

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 17:07

Well, you're right.

Mark Jones 17:08

And then you know, the the the huge last time I checked, my asserts weren't as big.

SPEAKER_02 17:14

True. But but the bottom line, right? So, you know, from an affordability standpoint, yes. And that's why, you know, what I try really try to do is educate people. It's like it's math. Yep. That there's there's not much wiggle room that you have here, you know. So yes, you need to instead of a$400,000 house, you need to find something$250.

Mark Jones 17:31

Yes. And and you raised a good point uh regarding the education piece. And when, and I want to frame it with you lead with education. Why? Because buying a house can be very, very emotional. Oh, it's a very emotional purchase, any which way you look at it, but from our side of the tracks, we're the one trying to ground you and bring you to reality to provide stripped away emotion. Here are the facts, here's the data, here is our recommendation. But it is a very difficult thing to for someone to part ways with their emotion to start seeing clearly.

SPEAKER_02 18:08

Yes. No, no, and I'm a huge huge advocate. Look, real estate, responsible real estate ownership, in my opinion, is still the key to wealth creation in this country. I agree. Responsible ownership. Yeah. And so what does that boil down to? Not being overextended, owning your own home. And and plus, you have all the non-tangible benefits of home ownership, right? So it's having stability for your family, it's having your kids going to the same school and growing up with the same buddies. I mean, that's how we kind of grew up, right? So it so there's there's so many things, and it's an absolutely noble cause and noble effort to make, but people still just need to be grounded in reality and understand based on their expense versus revenue ratios, right? What is truly attainable? Right.

SPEAKER_03 18:52

And then I people are delusional about it. I mean, obviously, I sell a lot of houses and they're like, this is my castle, I'll I'll do it. I got to, and it's like it's a little bit of sweat equity. You can like you can help, you can help the community. Elaborate on that, please. Go for it. Well, I it's I'm I'm currently in the process of helping a guy buy an$800,000 house, and he's he's got a 10% DTI, made plenty of like I think he he made over$700,000 last year. And and so this is actually a small drop in the bucket for what he could afford. Sure. And he's he's a financial advisor and all that stuff. So he understands the numbers and all that. And it's been the most refreshing conversation I've ever had with anybody because he understands the limitations, he wants to keep a cap on everything that he's doing because he's financially educated. And so many people that I deal with on a day-to-day basis are put, it's like, well, can I get this kind of house?

Mark Jones 19:35

Can I can I get and that blows my mind. You are literally painting a real life picture of someone that can pretty much buy whatever the hell they want, yep, but is still putting restrictions on themselves so that they can continue to thrive and live the way that they want to live versus becoming house poor or showing off for whoever they are trying to show off.

Renting Forever vs Building Wealth

SPEAKER_03 19:58

And and that get that leads back to the The question at hand. It's like so so many people got house poor, you know, in 08 and all that, and they they lost it. And that to me is a true bailout. Like they had to come bail to except they had to bail everybody out because they literally could not keep up with their deadlines. This right here is just spending money that you got sitting on the side. I have to agree with you. So the concept of considering this a bailout, I it again, I I I love the humor that that guy talked about Trump at the beginning because I I listen, anybody watch this, like don't get hung up on the political. Don't if I say the word Trump, don't freak out. Don't get triggered. So many people get triggered about it. And just in case you go to church, it's like love the sinner, hate the sin. Yes. You feel that way about it. But forcing them to go spend that money is not a bailout. That that's rhetoric. It's not a bailout. It's like get the cash back into the system, which is going to tie into what we're talking about next. But if the cash is just sitting on the sidelines, it's not helping anybody. And everybody knows that money has to move in order to make more money. That's right. So get out there, get make those things happen. If it does pop the interest rate down half a point, that that would be massive. This last little dip right now, I can't tell you how many people have come off the sidelines for me personally as a broker saying, okay, now I'm ready because to your point, they're getting 5.825. They're getting five and a half. I got this$800,000 houses at five and a half. And I'm like, okay, so they're seeing the five, and it is moving. And I got people coming off the sidelines. And if this will help more people move off the sidelines, it helps everybody as money moves. Money. So many people think that you need to have all your money sitting in the manager somewhere. And it's like, no, it's got to be moving if you're going to make more and if you're going to help any of these situations.

Mark Jones 21:26

No, that's exactly right.

SPEAKER_03 21:27

I don't think it's a bailout. I think it's if you got the money sitting around, you need to move it. And if it's going to help the rest of the consumers do it, and it's not going to overleverage them, I personally don't see the harm in it.

Mark Jones 21:35

Absolutely. And and I want to kind of dissect the first part that you mentioned here. It is not a bailout. I agree 1000% with that. This is more an inducement for people to buy. Hopefully, something that will reduce those rates temporarily, long term, doesn't matter, but at the point that it gets the market out of this freeze situation that we're in. Psychology. That's exactly correct. 100%.

SPEAKER_05 22:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 22:01

Why does every price in in 0.99? That's right. That's right. It's exactly correct. It's just that psychology of it's five, not six. And most people don't know. I know John knows this. What's the average FHA since its inception in 1932? Seven and a half percent. Oh gosh, yeah. Massimo.

SPEAKER_02 22:15

It's around there. Yeah, we're just in really same thing with Fannie and Freddie, uh, conventional rates. I mean, it's over seven percent.

SPEAKER_03 22:20

Yeah, I was gonna say seven percent is the average from since 1932, and we're at six percent, and everybody's freaking out. And I'm like, we're still below average. I'm sorry the house you want cost 700,000, but like we're still below average. I mean, we've been as high as 12, 13, right?

SPEAKER_02 22:34

It's it's it's rates rates by themselves, they're not the problem. I mean, you got to look here. I mean, just here in Bear County from 2019 to 2024, property taxes rose over 32 percent. Absolutely. Homeowners insurance thank you, Bear County.

SPEAKER_03 22:48

Protest your taxes. And you know what? I think so funny. Yes, protest. Where is the camera? Protest the taxes every single year. And you know what's so funny is like every school district's still doing bonds. And I'm like, where why are we doing all these bond packages? So I'm digressing that property taxes drive me crazy. You are correct. Too much of my time.

SPEAKER_02 23:04

But just in the last three years, right, homeowners' insurance has gone up 70%. Yeah. So why is everybody just picking on the mortgage guys?

Mark Jones 23:11

I mean, it's it's it's it's the whole package, and you raise a great point there that we are the ones that kind of get the brunt of any of the home buying. It's never the realtor's not giving us enough information. It's the lender, the rates were too high.

SPEAKER_03 23:29

Or I bang the lender every time.

Mark Jones 23:32

And that's okay, we can take it.

SPEAKER_02 23:34

But I've got some great data. We we could do it, we could do another another show around this, but but but there was a survey done of millennials and Gen Zers. And the any of the charts here or no, it's it's it's I got it back at the office, but I could I could I can tell you without a fact that realtors and mortgage loan officers are trusted less by millennials and Gen Zers than basically anybody. Anyone, yeah, wow. Like we're like so far down on the totem.

SPEAKER_03 24:03

But they love their insurance agent, and they love they love the person they voted into office that's raising their taxes. Yes, yes, oh yeah. Well, he he wears this color, he sits on this side of the oh, I love him. And I'm like, are you watching what he's doing? Right, right.

Institutional Buyers And Market Impact

Mark Jones 24:16

Yeah, and I think a lot of folks lack context in and and outside perspective, and they are so tunnel vision on what's in front of them to even go, okay, let me see where I'm at on the rung of how everything stacks up, so to speak. I don't know it to me. This situation that we have here, is it going to help us in regards to generating more business? The the mindset of getting those folks off of the fence? I do believe so, but I think we're also battling something that is going to be a long-term hurdle for real estate professionals and mortgage professionals. The idea of well, we don't need to own a home. Why would I why would I even buy a home? Yep. Type concept. Why? I don't know. Is it because the the the folks of those people that are saying that, and it is the younger generation, are not educating them on the equity, on what they've done with their house and their equity to get to where they are. I think that has a lot to do with it. Because as we know, history shows that nobody's staying in their house for 30 years. You know what I mean? Your parents, they bought or your parents' parents, that doesn't happen anymore. Where they bought their first home, they lived in it, they stayed in it, they passed away and passed it down. It's not happening that often. Matter of fact, isn't the baby boomers they own most of the real estate in the United States? So at a certain point, when that shifts, are they going to allow it to shift or are they gonna just squander it? Who knows? Yeah. I mean, you look at it and people go, Well, I can't take it with me. So let's go to Vegas.

SPEAKER_02 25:58

So the ball so the So the Wall Street Journal had a very interesting article just last week, okay, over the weekend. And it was talking about like there's gonna be like seven trillion dollars worth of real estate that's gonna be transferred basically from boomers to the millennials and Gen Zers here over the course of the next 10 years. Okay. But it does raise the point though, and you read in the article, it's more affluent folks that are planning versus the non-affluent, which are maybe it's just gonna be squandered and done something else with. You know, I I do come back to, you know, for the folks that are out there going, oh, you know what, we're just gonna rent for the rest of our lives. I will point this question out to you, and that is how how are you gonna be taken care of financially when you get older? Right. And I know it's a dirty word, reverse mortgage.

Mark Jones 26:43

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

But for the right person, it is absolutely a smart financial vehicle to be used to help offset living expenses when you're older. That's right. Because especially if you don't want to leave your kids anything.

Mark Jones 26:56

That's they don't know what to do with it anyway. Well, I didn't teach them how to do anything, you know? He's an idiot. I'm not gonna give them a bunch of money.

SPEAKER_02 27:04

That's right. But it is, but it is just a reality, right? I mean, so if there's an asset that can be utilized to help, you know, potentially increase tax flow or cash flow, or just no longer have a mortgage payment, and use it rather than become a burden on you know your heirs. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 27:22

But on the flip side, if you're one of those people that rent your entire life and that's what you're gonna do, why would I own a home? I I own a lot of properties that I rent out to people. And guess what happens every single year? That's right. My taxes go up and therefore your rent goes up. Yeah. And so that that is a non-moving target for renters. And if you move to somewhere else, usually if you've been in a rent plate rental for five years, you tend to have a very smallest versus moving to a different place. And as I've been seeing a lot of people selling properties right now, getting out of the rental portfolios because the pricing and they're they're able to capture some equity. And now these people have to move somewhere that's$800 more expensive to get the exact same thing. That's right. And and it's gonna pinch you more and more and more. And home, like back to the just get that home ownership where your stuff is fixed for 30 years. And if when you're ready in time and you've built up the equity in your current house, you can now afford that next one. That's how like my house, I live next to John, not that far down the road. And it I think it's funny. We live in a really nice neighborhood. And when I bought that house, like I bought it for$340,000. I could probably sell it for$650 right now, and it was ugly, and it was built like it was built in 1980 and it was in great shape, but it was ugly, it had till carpet and wallpaper everywhere. That's awesome.

Mark Jones 28:29

And wallpaper flower. Oh, it's seriously.

SPEAKER_03 28:33

The bathroom had pink, it was bright blue with pink flowers on there. And but you know, sweat equity, we're in there, we're doing it a little bit at a time, and now my house is worth$650,000 so if I do decide to go buy a seven, eight hundred thousand dollar house, I've got$300 to put down on this property and my mortgage isn't gonna move. That's right. And and that's how people get into these bigger, nicer houses, and I'm still paying what I'm what is my mortgage?$2,600 a month uh on a six hundred and fifty thousand dollar house. I think it's twenty six hundred a month. Yeah, and it's because I've lived there 10 years, I made it into a six hundred thousand dollar house. And if I do decide to leave, or when I do, I'm you're taking your equity with you. I'm taking my equity with me into this next house. Now I'm like, how'd you afford such a nice house? And I'm like, I lived in a shitty one for 10 years.

Mark Jones 29:13

In addition to that, people do not capitalize on the concept of living in the home past two years and not being taxed on that equity that they're transferring over. Yep. I mean, we're taxed on everything else, but when you get to a point that you have X amount, realize that that's untaxed right now, you know. But that also leads to the next topic, which is the idea of the Donald J. Trump putting a halt on institutional investors purchasing single family homes.

SPEAKER_03 29:45

Yeah, this one's really intriguing. Because I I have a I have so many thoughts on this. Well, like that lending stuff, that's more Johnny. That'll be fun. I'm gonna speculate on an economic prediction.

Build‑To‑Rent, Down Payments, Assistance

Mark Jones 29:54

So I've got an article here. It says uh Trump signs an order to limit Wall Street investors in single family housing. Let's see what this article says. I'm gonna skip over the summary and go straight to this. So January 28th, President Donald Trump signed an executive order on Tuesday to restrict large institutional investors from competing with individual home buyers in efforts to make housing more affordable, the White House says, to preserve the supply and single-family homes for American families and increase the pass of homeownership. It is the policy of my administration that large institutional investors should not buy single-family homes that could otherwise be purchased by families, said Donald Trump. Let's see here. Trump under pressure to address voter affordability concerns ahead of Congress elect congressional elections this year. This recently, this recent push pushed a number of majority policy proposals aimed at boosting home ownership and reigning in living cost. Early in January, Trump ordered Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac for the 2 billion, 200 billion. That's what we just talked about. Trump ordered Tuesday directly, his administration to promote home sales to individual buyers restricting federal programs that facilitate sales in single family homes to Wall Street investors and review acquisitions by large investors. So I've got plenty to talk about with this. I'm sure you guys do as well. There's plenty of topics that come from this, but I do want to kind of start with the fact that I don't think that this is going to do a damn thing but piss people off. I'll be honest. Why? Here's why you own investment properties, you are you own invest. We're my I'm not an institution. Most of the homes that are being purchased for investment purposes are from mom and pops, not the the the black rocks, not the you think that's incorrect?

SPEAKER_02 31:58

No, no, no, no. I'm I'm agreeing with you. Okay, I was like, wait a minute. Mom and pop dominate that's right in the rental market, not hedge funds or Wall Street. And it's not even close. Yeah, like like nowhere near close. Yeah. So I guess some data, and then Colin, I'll let have you weigh in here. But and this is you know, basically as of the end of 2025, the share of rental properties out there for rent for investors that owned between one and nine properties, 77%. So your larger mom and pops, maybe smaller LLCs, between 10 and 29 was 16%. Between 100 to 999 properties, 4%, and then a thousand plus homes, three percent. And then what this also doesn't include is what the the ban doesn't include is build to rent. Build to rent has a carve out. That's right. So that's so that's not included. But the bottom line is mom and pop dominate single family rentals.

SPEAKER_03 32:54

Is that data based on actual homes or is it doors? Single family. This is a single single family.

Mark Jones 33:00

I've looked that stat up because well, he's that's on the money. Yeah, so it's not that's where I got what I just said so powerfully.

SPEAKER_03 33:06

Well, and but see, like everything's got a double-edged sword. I is it gonna affect it, everything's gonna move something. A butterfly flaps its wings, right? Something's gonna happen, and I I'm kind of with you. I don't know what's gonna happen. Right. Because you got to realize, yes, okay, so all of a sudden BlackRock and all these guys are not going in there and buying these things, and most people don't realize this, they're very regional. That's right. I was gonna say the same thing. They are not just going to every single auction, they're hanging out in Atlanta, they're hanging out in Georgia. That's right. They're hanging out in these places where they have high rental markets. It's not stupid, they didn't have the tons of money because of this, and they're targeting these very specific markets. And and if they stop buying in that market, is it gonna help Atlanta's home values? I think it will. But on the flip side of that, it I think it's gonna help too much. Yeah. Because now all of a sudden we have billions of dollars that were being pumped into that market. That's right. That have just been cut off. Yes. And so the bottom's gonna probably fall out of underneath it, which is gonna be great for homeowners. That's right. Unless you already own your home, then all of a sudden your market value just drops. Right. Yep. And guess what? Your taxes probably aren't gonna go down with that. That's right. And it's it's gonna create a different kind of problem, I have a feeling.

Mark Jones 34:10

Then you also have the idea, kind of going back to what I was talking about a bit ago. Let's say all of these homes are now freed up. But if you've got buyers that are watching the media and still going, well, interest rates are too high, well, then who's gonna buy them?

SPEAKER_03 34:24

Well, and and and also, so, so okay, so we're gonna let's keep using Atlanta as the target. If I pull all these guys out of Atlanta, the home prices are gonna drop. Does that mean that the Atlanta population is ready to buy homes? That's my point. Are they even ready? If they're buying in Atlanta because Atlanta is a perpetual renter market, yes, and they know that it and all these renters lose their house, right? Where are they gonna go? Right. And we're gonna end up with a bunch of it's gonna be like China, right? Yeah, they got so many empty and vacant houses because it's just like what are we gonna do with those? Who's who is gonna buy them?

Mark Jones 34:57

I believe, and then this is something that I argue with folks about all the time on social media because they don't take the time to just look up the actual data that right in the front face you go, oh, wait a minute. So it's not that bad. No, it's not. The media has pumped this up, social media has pumped it up, and you have heard it from somebody that heard it from somebody else, and now you're repeating it. And it's still incorrect. The idea that these folks are just coming in and purchasing all these homes, what happens if they're not there? I mean, that idea of is there a void that's going to need to be filled? And the idea is for home buyers to fill that void. But like you're saying, if they're not ready to go, what are we doing?

Structure The Deal: Concessions Beat Price Cuts

SPEAKER_03 35:41

Yeah, they like I I buy properties at the foreclosure auction. I've never seen a Black Rock guy, at least not in San Antonio, right? I I I I invest primarily in San Antonio, but and would I expand my operation if all of a sudden there's 10 million empty houses in Atlanta? Yeah, probably. Because it's gonna be extremely cheap to get in. Sure, sure. And but it it's it, I think it's gonna do I think it's gonna help, but I think it's gonna help too much. That that's kind of my prediction on this, depending on how in those particular regions. Do I think it's gonna affect San Antonio? No, do I think it's gonna affect other markets? Not so much, but in some of these markets where they have a ton of capital invested, if they yank, I mean, you know, it's supply and demand. If all of a sudden they dump all these properties, which I doubt they're dumb enough to do it all in one fell swoop, they'll you know, segment it out, but it it's gonna slowly bring all the prices down to a point where it's gonna be difficult to put them back in.

SPEAKER_02 36:26

Well, well, here's here's the challenge that we well, a couple couple thoughts on that. A number one, you know, Trump is amazing at selling the sizzle, and that and that's what we're doing here. We are selling the sizzle. I literally just yeah, that's awesome. So it well, it but it's true. I didn't say sizzle, but but yeah, and and and the reality, right, is that you know, when when when you're in politics, you gotta have a villain. So it's very easy to go and say that you know it's Wall Street, it's hedge funds, they're the villains. When in reality, what was what was our biggest who was our biggest competitor here in San Antonio during the COVID rush?

Mark Jones 36:58

Your online, your your QuickBooks, quick in rocket mortgage.

SPEAKER_02 37:01

Well, but I was gonna say too, is it was people that were moving here from California.

Mark Jones 37:04

Oh, sure, sure. You know, it it was yeah, because they were finding homes that are it's like, wait a minute. I can buy that for that. Okay, give me two. Yeah, right. And I don't care if I pay twenty to fifty thousand over. Sight unseen. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 37:16

It was it was I mean, how many what what's the percentage of of Airbnbs uh to non-Airbnbs in downtown? You know, I mean it's it's I can look it up, right?

SPEAKER_03 37:25

It's so digna witty.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

Yeah, it you would just be curious to know because it's again, it's not the hedge funds Wall Street that's that's the biggest problem for the consumer, but and it's not a political problem. Housing affordability is it can all comes back to math, right? And so to your point, Colin, is like, yeah, landlords disappear tomorrow. That doesn't mean housing affordability got better. Uh, maybe, maybe a little bit, but does it mean that everyone's gonna all of a sudden go out there and become a homeowner?

SPEAKER_03 37:54

And that's a problem. Then do we loosen up the requirements so much that we can actually get them in there? And then we end up with this whole problem all over again and we're backsliding.

Mark Jones 38:01

So, what I put here was what are you guys' thoughts? Having talked about what we just did a moment ago, that could it change things? Sure, maybe, but I don't think it's gonna change much. It'll only maybe hurt. Do you think that this was done to kind of appease the opposition? And what I mean by the opposition is all the folks going, rich, right? The rich guys always got it, yeah. That's right. And sell the this on its face, Donald Trump saying, No, investors, you can't buy. Maybe it gets somebody to go, I didn't like that guy, but you know what?

SPEAKER_03 38:36

Maybe. I I think what's funny about it, honestly, if I was sitting on that portfolio for I it's kind of time, yeah. Like you've captured the equity you're gonna capture, it's gonna slow down quite a bit. Yeah, and they're gonna want some of their cash back because I I think that we're gonna have some more market fluctuations that are going to find better opportunities to buy, and I think they're already kind of happening. Okay, yeah, you're right. We can't buy anymore, no big deal. That's right. Yeah, we're gonna cash out now. We're just gonna go build a rent. Yeah, we're gonna build a rent or we're gonna put it in other markets, and it's just so Amy, if you could throw that up on the screen real quick.

Mark Jones 39:09

So we looked up what we were trying to find here the amount of owner-occupied versus investment properties in the inner city of San Antonio only. And it looks like it's only pulling up data from 2023, but I can only imagine it hasn't changed much, right?

SPEAKER_02 39:24

It's about that still.

Mark Jones 39:26

Still, okay. So we're at 52% of owner-occupied. Yay, we're winning by 2%, but renter occupied is 47%. So that means almost half of the homes in our inner city are owned. And I will go as far as to say by mom and pop investors. Yes, there's not all these institutional investors come into town. Zilla was here for a little while. What was the other one? Not open door. Orchard. Orchard. Orchard, yeah. Orchard. They're gone. Yeah. They sold quick, they lost their ass, they got out.

SPEAKER_03 39:58

Yeah. Well, they. It was a different strategy too. They they were buying to flip, right? They wanted the quick profits when everything was so hot and heavy.

Mark Jones 40:05

They were playing with funny money.

SPEAKER_03 40:07

Yes.

Mark Jones 40:08

Why? Well, lead generation money comes out of thin air, and you got plenty of it when realtors need to buy leads.

SPEAKER_03 40:14

Oh, and they were believing their believing their zestimate too. Yeah. That that was honestly that was a big problem because when I they would offer me things on properties, I sold a bunch of stuff to Orchard. I was like, take this turd. And they they would overpay me 40% over what a San Antonio investor would pay. And I remember thinking to myself, and I'm like, Y'all used y'all's own zes estimate, didn't you? You used your own. And then one of the most interesting stats we'd have to look it up, but the CEO of Zillow sold his five million dollar house for six hundred thousand dollars below his own zestimate. I was like, so even his house isn't right in his own system. And if you're buying based on that crap, yeah, and so don't ever call a realtor and say, my zestimate says my house is worth as much. Don't do that.

Appraisals, Psychology, And Pricing

Mark Jones 40:55

It's a question from that perspective Do you think that how do I put this? The I'll I can't even remember what it was. It'll come back to me. Zillow, you're buying homes, all that jazz.

SPEAKER_02 41:15

Well, here. Well, while you're thinking of why you're thinking of it, but but but along the lines of this, man, I saw the Sabor housing forecast years ago, and it was it was one of those charts where I saw it once and then never could find it again. But it was literally a heat map of San Antonio, and it was, you know, like basically blue was you owned, red was you rented. And it was basically take the map of San Antonio, and if you cut it in half, the north side was obviously dominated by majority ownership, and the entire south side was dominated by majority renters. And you know, so so this comes back into the play of, you know, again, affordability, getting people into a mindset that you can go from a from a renter to a to an owner. I sent over another chart today that showed top things that are people are delaying home ownership on. And it was interesting. So this was from July of 2025 to to September. And the number of people that said 41 in yeah, in July of 2025, 41% of folks said that they were saving money for down payment, and that was holding them back from buying a house in September of 2025. That had jumped to 50%. So that tells me that people are wanting to, but man, the down payment thing is kicking their butt. And at the same time, though, from rates, people waiting for rates to go down dropped from 32 to 26 percent in that time frame. So people are wanting to buy, and I think they're just there's there's still so much bad information out there about how much money you need to buy a house.

Mark Jones 42:39

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 42:40

I still blame Dave Ramsey for that, right? You don't need 20% to buy a house.

Mark Jones 42:44

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 42:45

And and so, and there's plenty of down payment assistance programs out there. So it all comes back to the education side and getting people into a mindset of you know what, you don't have to rent for the rest of your life, you can own.

SPEAKER_03 42:56

You know, my my line to that is is I literally give them, well, not your number, but like cap or something. I'm like, just go talk to them and and and see where you're at. Because the best thing is good loan officers, if you can't afford a home, then they will help you with a roadmap how you can. That's exactly because sometimes it's not necessarily saving more money. Sometimes you got to get rid of that discover card. That's right. That's what's killing you.

Mark Jones 43:18

And more importantly, sometimes you need someone that you don't know that's not in your sphere to say, Hey, you need to get rid of that discover card.

SPEAKER_03 43:26

Well, what is that makes sense? It's it's the dinner topic conversations. You don't talk religion, politics, sex, money. That's right. And it's like, but money, like you have to talk it, or you're gonna continue to be where you're at. And so go to a trusted third party and talk to them. And and it it is like I always tell everybody before I send them, I'm like, hey, listen, good loan officers, like if you go to mortgage.com or whatever it is, they're gonna take your social security number and give you a pre-approval letter, just period, based on that. They don't do any of the homework. I said, a good loan officer is gonna give you the full financial rectal exam before they ever write a piece of paper for you. And that's that is massively important. And I and so many people can afford how they're a month away from buying a house. It's like just just go do this. And actually, Aaron one time he tripped me out real bad. I had this couple that wanted to buy a house and they were in there talking, and he was like, Do you have that? It was a discover card, funny enough. Do you have that discover card on you? And he's like, Yeah, he's like, Go buy lunch real quick, don't spend more than$30 and come back. And he came back, and their credit score jumped up. That's right. Okay, now I can get you. It's sometimes it's that simple. Yeah, sometimes you are a long way away, but if you sit in your room by yourself, you're always gonna think you're a long way away.

Mark Jones 44:31

And you definitely need someone that will take the time to do that right there that you're talking about. Sit on screen in person on a Zoom call, share the debt because sometimes a lot of people don't want to see it themselves. I know. Put it on the screen. It's time to literally let it all out. Now we're gonna go through this.

SPEAKER_02 44:51

So do I.

What Should Buyers Watch Next?

Mark Jones 44:52

Yeah, there's a full full examination because you're asking me, how do I buy a house? I'm about to show you how you make it happen. And and whether that be see this$900 car payment, what is that? Oh, it's a okay. Well, can you live in it? No, okay, let's probably chop that in half, find something that's more affordable because your goal is to actually buy a home, right? Yes, okay. Well, then once you get into the home, go buy it again if you want to. If your budget allows for it, et cetera, et cetera. Now, I remember when I was talking about when you were mentioning the Zillow concept and they were overpaying. Do you think that that was around the time that they were overpaying intentionally to control the market?

SPEAKER_03 45:36

I I do 100%.

Mark Jones 45:37

Definitely backfired on it.

SPEAKER_03 45:38

But again, it was it was speculative, right? They we houses were moving so quick. Californians, everybody's paying 20, 30, 50 over market. Everybody's coming in here and they're like, oh, I'm gonna lipstick this pig and I'm gonna I'm gonna kick it over real quick. And they they got caught holding billions. That's right. Yeah, and then everybody's like, Yeah, we're done doing that. And it it was too short of a timeline with these big hedge funds going in here and buying all of this stuff, they're they're able to hold it indefinitely, right? Because they paid cash for it, they don't care, they're making enough cash flow on it.

SPEAKER_02 46:05

They're making a long-term play on it for cash flow.

SPEAKER_03 46:08

I was looking for like the last two or three years, they're they're 10 to 12 percent like clockwork, yeah. And and if you've got that already working for you and you're cranking rents every month, too, there's no real reason for them to dump it. But like I said, if you force them to, or if you start telling them they can't do any more of it, then that portfolio is that size, that side of that portfolio is gonna shrink. And I think it's it's gonna hurt. I think in a good way, it prices will go down, but it's to what extent? To what extent? It's like you you want some value in your home. Everybody thinks they want home prices to go down until you own a home.

Mark Jones 46:38

No, what we want is tax value tax values to go down, more exemptions out there for people.

SPEAKER_02 46:45

It should be a rule that the taxing authority, whatever they put a value on, that should be considered an offer. I like that. Are you ready to buy it? I've got a if you say it's worth this much here.

SPEAKER_03 46:57

I'd sell my house right now for what they think it's worth. Yes, we have a bunch of empty houses and renters again. Here we go. It's just like solo buying all these things. That's my that's awesome. You want to buy it for that? I'll sell it to you.

Mark Jones 47:09

So I've got one of the images that uh John sent over, and and this is kind of back to what we were talking about here. It says mom and pop investors still own a vast majority of single property or single family homes. Will a ban Wall Street ownership help affordability? And you've got the literal, and I love this because it shows perspective uh at its finest. The institutional investors make up a sliver of the entire market. Am I reading that correctly? That is what accurate, yes, you know, and that that is that is amazing.

SPEAKER_02 47:44

Once you once you see it, right? And you can perspective, yes. And now it's like, oh wow, okay. Well, man, Trump's selling the sizzle over here. That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 47:54

He's selling hate the rich, right? It's just like it's that's as old. It's I think you're right. I think he's probably trying to get a few more of the votes on the other side going, yeah, he's attacking the problem.

Mark Jones 48:02

Part of the deal. He he's not dumb. Anybody that wants to think he's dumb is is sorely mistaken. So you've got a couple of other ones on here. Do you want me to throw those up so we can talk about?

SPEAKER_02 48:12

Yeah, yeah, because uh, because the because the build-to-rent one is actually really interesting.

SPEAKER_03 48:17

I'm curious as well.

SPEAKER_02 48:18

And and the data here, and this is interesting, right? So, so look at the note in 2025, build-rent deliveries were 45,000 or roughly 3% share of annual new housing supply. So, build a rent compared to what DR Horton and Lenar and every other home builder are putting out there, they built 45,000 homes, but that's still only 3%. So, even the build-a-rent is still overall a relatively small number when you look at it that way. So, you know, to to that end, I mean, I say, you know, continue to build to rent.

Mark Jones 48:49

Yeah, yeah, most definitely.

SPEAKER_02 48:51

And and and and what I've seen too is I've seen some of the build-to-rent guys out there actually kind of creating also more build-to-own, like rent to own. Right. So, so it it is an avenue that perhaps you know can be used to help people get people into a house uh responsibly. And what about this one here? You know, the the the big one here, right? And and this is again, I I I throw this out there, still to this to this end, down payment is still the number one issue keeping people out of a house.

Headlines, Refis, And Good Advice

Mark Jones 49:17

And what I find strange with that is with all of the data that's out there. That to still be an excuse or a reason for folks to hold themselves back, I feel as though it's becoming a cop-out versus a true reason. And it more so an excuse, not a reason, if that makes sense. I mean, why? I just launched a mobile app that you know of, Lone Bot. Jump in there, throw your credit score in, all that stuff. It'll give you all the programs that you qualify for. Well, I'll and a sh ton of them you don't need a down payment for.

SPEAKER_02 49:51

Well, right. But uh but I'll also throw out there that there's not enough within our own industry that are out there actively promoting down payment assistance programs like the Texas State Affordable Housing Corp, that'll give somebody up to five percent.

Mark Jones 50:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:04

And and why aren't they advertising or promoting it? One reason revenue.

Mark Jones 50:08

That's right. You don't make a lot.

SPEAKER_02 50:09

You don't, but but but you help a family. You when you do things for the right reason, the universe will pay you back. Absolutely. It always has.

SPEAKER_03 50:16

This is what I always tell. So it's guys, find somebody like these kind of lenders whenever you're doing this, because that's what I tell everybody. Go in there, go figure out what you're looking at, what's available to you, what's going on, because you're right, they don't advertise the TDHCA and all those kind of programs that you can get those kind of things in. Me personally, like they cannot pay me, and I can't sell you a house unless you have money. That's right. So we work hand in hand. That's why we we find a loan officer we like that answers the phone and go talk to them and and get this done because you you can own a home. It's it may not be the home you want, it may not be the one you saw on HGTV, but you can turn it into that if you got it, because you're gonna be saving money in the long run.

SPEAKER_02 50:56

Absolutely. And and and if and if you're young, look, I get it. You know, life is expensive. It it is hard to save money relatively, right?

SPEAKER_03 51:02

And with the median sales store is still freaking me out right now.

SPEAKER_02 51:06

Yes, yes, what I still have you filled your basket lately? Like if you fill out I wish H E B was a publicly traded company.

Mark Jones 51:12

I'd no, I I haven't no. I go to the grocery store, which is right behind us here for things, and then when I get home, all the groceries are on the front porch. Like, oh man, we did it again.

SPEAKER_02 51:25

What was gonna say, yeah. So median home price, we'll just say call it 300,000 here in San Antonio, right? Yeah, so median home price, we you know, if with FHA, I mean you're still looking at minimum three and a half percent down. So not a whole lot of people just have 12 grand laying around, right? Right, but then they don't realize that there are programs out there to help offset that. You you still don't have, or you still and and I can't preach this enough, but not enough realtors, I think, are teaching their their clients on the listing side to sell like a builder, right? Don't come down on price, give more incentives concessions, that's right. Give more concessions to cover offset closing cost, you know, because the the the best deal out there is when you can structure it to where the mortgage math will will show it 100% of the time, the consumer gets a better deal when the rate is bought down and they have less cash out of pocket versus getting a lower sales price every single time.

SPEAKER_03 52:16

It's so funny you say that because I literally just exercised that option. Sorry, it wasn't with one of you guys, it was a dime lender, but they're like, hey, I can get them in, but they need their closing costs covered. And I was like, fine. So I actually wrote the offer five grand over the asking guys, asked for like 18 grand in concession, whatever the maximum was. I wrote I maxed it out, and guess what? The appraisal came in right on the dime. Guys, it's a fun little secret. Yeah, appraisers get a little lazy sometimes, and if you can you can manipulate that, and now they're getting into a home for I think they're paying four or five grand out of pocket.

Final Takeaways And CTA

Mark Jones 52:46

Yeah, and and well, put it this way with appraisers, because that's been a hot topic lately, because you've got some properties that are appraising over and some properties that are right on the money. I haven't very had very many low appraisals, I haven't had this in a while, right? And when that happens, I feel as though that's almost the appraiser finding empathy with data. Does that make sense? Because he can't just throw out a number, but he can find or use that other comp that pushes that value up that extra two grand. And that means that they understand how much homeownership means to this person buying.

SPEAKER_03 53:24

And if I can put my tinfoil hat on a moment, I have some in the drawer. I was saying about five years ago, do you feel like they were doing the opposite? I do, yeah. Like I feel like they were in cahoots with everybody to pull values back. And I'm like, you've got to be kidding me. And I I spent more time arguing with appraisers. I'm like, you got the house next door.

SPEAKER_05 53:40

Yes, you know, just sold for X.

Mark Jones 53:42

Yeah, and now, mind you, I I'm gonna play devil's advocate. Aren't we glad that they did now? Oh, I am. You see what I'm saying? Like that could have gotten carried away and to the point that we would then be feeling a crash right now because nothing's moving, nothing's foreclosing all that that causes the crash, but nothing's moving, so therefore the values would just be bump, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So it's almost a good thing that they did that back then. We look at it fast forward now. They're doing the opposite, which is helping more homeowners. So those out there, just a tiny bit of advice, but don't hate on your appraiser. That's what they do, man.

SPEAKER_03 54:21

Let me argue with them, right? I'll argue. You don't get mad, I'll get mad. That's right. But it but that's why like Black Frock has been helpful. Like, I'm pretty sure, like, if we keep on that, because I I did see they bought a lot in Atlanta. If they would not have bought in Atlanta, what would the Atlanta market? Good boy now.

SPEAKER_02 54:36

Yes, like what would it be? Detroit in the 80s, maybe still.

Mark Jones 54:39

That's right. Wow, you were gonna say something.

SPEAKER_02 54:42

Oh, I forgot what I was gonna say. All right, but but it was but it was it was along those lines. And I think it was just, you know, yeah, I think the the appraisers are doing a good job with the data that they have, and you know, I think the the the good ones are reaching out and having conversations with agents. So wait, how did you get this number? Oh, okay. Because a lot of times there is data out there that's not in the MLS, yeah, most definitely.

Mark Jones 55:04

So, guys, to kind of round this off, cap it off, I want to kind of end with, and there's no wrong answer, right answer to this, but being that we've got news in the media, we've got some movement of some things that could potentially help home buyers with affordability, two things working at once. What do you think that home buyers or home sellers, realtors for that matter, should be paying attention to as we move into the coming weeks? Because this should take about I'm thinking about a month or so, we'll see rates tick down. But then at the same time, I just created a video, put it out this morning about how much rates went up. So it's like it people ask me all the time, what do you think rates are gonna do? And I tell them straight up, if I knew that, I would not be doing what I'm doing. I promise.

SPEAKER_03 55:57

And you've got your stupid creed in. To me, the answer always it's Will Rogers, right? 1930, buy real estate and wait.

Mark Jones 56:04

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 56:05

Period. The end. Get in no matter when you can get in. Yeah, it does not matter. Real estate has never gone to rock zero. So you you may lose some value in your house, you may gain some value in your house, but if you're paying it down the whole time, it shouldn't hurt you. That's right. So go buy something. And then the second one, which is the new one, it's like marry the house and date the rate. Rates may go up tomorrow, they may go down tomorrow. We don't know, you don't know, nobody knows. We can speculate all we want all day. Yep, and and if China market goes under, then something happened. It doesn't matter. We nobody can predict it. So if it goes up, you're smart. If it goes down, refinance it. There's so many lending companies right now that'll let you refinance within three years for like 500 bucks. Yeah, it's like they don't order another appraisal, they don't do anything, they're just like, hey, let's get you in that new rate. 500 bucks to save yourself a couple hundred bucks a month. I'm like, come on, guys. Like there's no reason not to buy. I don't care what's happening right now because if it changes, you can change.

Mark Jones 56:56

Yeah, and I think the the perception of the younger generation, they got a taste of seeing how many folks were making money by buying their primary residence and selling it two years later from 2020 to 2022, that they're still a little skewed, but I have faith that they're starting to come to realization that that's not gonna happen again.

SPEAKER_03 57:17

That that was such a rare instance. Like, I I can't think of another time period where something like that happened. And I'm kind of I'm kind of pissed off because a friend of mine did that. Do you remember about a year ago, two years ago, when the used car market was through the roof? Oh my god. My buddy went and bought a brand new truck, turned around, sold it for more, and he got it for. He did that like five or six times, made like 20 grand driving a new truck once a week. And and I'm like, what are you doing? It's because every time I saw him, he had a new truck like, oh yeah, I'm making five grand a pop on these things.

Mark Jones 57:44

The F-250s, the Corvettes, there were a couple of them that uh defenders, the Broncos. That buddy of mine owns a dealership. So yes, I was I was one of them that would do that, but I lost my ass. And no one on the on the flip side. You gotta do it.

SPEAKER_03 57:59

If no one, if you're watching this, I'm mad at you still about not telling me you were doing that until like it then it was over, right? And it's like, okay, I can sit there and pout about it, or I can go buy a new truck and just deal with it. You know what I mean? It's like it was a weird timing, it was a weird market, and you're never gonna you can't time the market, right? It's catching a falling knife. Don't catch a falling knife, and don't try and time the market, just do what you're gonna do. And I it no matter what, see you got rich dad, poor dad over here, millionaire mindset. Every single solitary book you see on any kind of wealth creation says buy a house. That's right. And if you're too scared to go talk to one of these, because he's scary. I get why y'all are scared of him. He has tattoos and stuff. Guys, don't yeah, don't be scared about it. Go figure it out because all of this it ultimately is noise. I mean, we collectively have decided that yes, it may do something, yeah, it's probably not gonna do anything here in San Antonio. I don't know where your view group is, yep, but it's like it may or may not affect you. And if it does, we pretty much said it's gonna be a small effect, and it's mostly talking points, as with everything in the news. Anything that happens, Trump, Trump went to McDonald's today. McDonald's stuff goes it's like everybody freaks out over every single headline. So true. And I'm like, stop for a hot minute. Do what you're gonna do, go talk to the professionals. It's like we're profess I know people think realtors don't do anything. I get it. Everybody, you know, that's a big wait. You guys do stuff? Yeah, believe it or not.

Mark Jones 59:15

I so Amy, throw that up there one more time. I'm I'm not gonna hit play on this, but he was showing on screen the moment they announced about the 200 billion. Immediately now he's looking at uh stock for oh goodness, mortgage depot.

SPEAKER_03 59:34

Okay.

Mark Jones 59:35

So boom. Oh loan depot. Loan depot. There you go. Mortgage depot. Sorry. I'm not sorry. It shot through the roof in what is that? A couple of days, boom, boom, boom, shot through the roof. He said, I bought as soon as they announced it because I knew it was gonna happen. And there you go. But they're also trading like a penny stock. Correct.

SPEAKER_02 59:54

I mean, I'll throw that one. But the extra astronomer, but but but the real pennies. The reality is though, I mean that that is a big jump.

Mark Jones 1:00:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:03

And and the the play there, the market, whoever, you know, the the day traders going, oh, there's gonna be a refi boom. Yeah. There's not I guarantee the chart today it came back down. There's just not gonna there's not gonna be a refi boom. Now, you know, there are a lot of mortgages out there, millions of borrowers that that are in the money today, if they were to take advantage of refinancing. But that doesn't mean also that they should agree. And that would be another another thing just to take away that that I took I've probably talked people out of more refinances in the last six months. Same here than than than I have actually like done any. And the reality is because it doesn't always make sense. Right, right.

Mark Jones 1:00:39

And and what I've come to find out, and this is the the the internal battle that I am fighting with, is I'm the same way. I'm not gonna refinance you just so I can get a paycheck. You can feel good. I want it to actually make dollars and cents to you. Yeah, and I turn them away. I'm like, guys, this doesn't make sense. Fast forward a month. Yeah, we just closed on our refinance with such and such online company. Why?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:04

Because you just rolled out your equity is gone for$40 a month.

Mark Jones 1:01:09

Do I stick to my guns to continue advising people the right way, even though they're gonna go and do it anyway? Or go ahead and jump into the what all the other paper pushers are doing. For me, I'm gonna stick to my guns and continue to do that because it will be fruitful for me down the long run.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:30

It's the same thing with me when I go look at houses and people like I do a lot of investing, and they're like, I want to dump this house. And I'll walk in and I can't tell you many times I tell people I was like, never sell this house to an investor. That's right. You can get more money online just as fast or listening in the MLS, right? Don't don't do that. And and when it comes to the loan officers, guys, if you don't sit down with them and look them in the eyes, you you need to take people's advice. You need to be able to listen to them. I I I abhor the the dot coms, the 1-800, whatever. If I call in and I get a different person every time I'm doing this, I know for a fact they do not have my best interest in mind. I'm a number and they just want to close the deal. That's right. If I have an advisor, somebody's telling me it's like, hey, not yet. You know, you need more equity. Not yet. The rates need to be down further. Not yet. Or hell yeah, you need to do it now. Yeah. Like you should be talking to these people. Like most people get financial advisors and they're like, they set up their portfolios. If you're not talking to them once a year, you're you're not doing the job. Right. That's their job. That's what they're here for. Same with you guys. It's like your job is to educate the consumer, make sure it does well. And my best advice if you are talking to a lender, if you don't talk to them directly every time and if you can't meet them face to face, go find somebody else. Period at the end. That's right.

Mark Jones 1:02:34

Guys, is there anything else you want to add to this before we close this off?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:38

I'll just reiterate that even though some of the ideas may not be the best ones, at least this administration has brought housing to the conversation table.

Mark Jones 1:02:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:46

It needed to be. Affordability is still a giant problem in our country, and but it's it's not a political issue, it's a math problem.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:54

Yeah, and I I echo that, guys. It just don't hate something because somebody said it. Like the the right now, politics are so polarizing. Yeah, it's like you you got to go talk to people about it. Just because somebody says something doesn't mean it's gold, and it doesn't mean it's the worst thing ever. I uh worst ever thing to possibly happen to us. Go talk to somebody who really knows what's going on and fill it out and and stop making mountains out of molehills. Like just because it's a headline doesn't mean it's going to completely change the way everything looks. Yeah, it just means there's gonna be a little hiccup somewhere along the way. Maybe it will be a big one, but it doesn't, it does not deter from the fact that homeownership is important.

Mark Jones 1:03:28

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:30

It will never deter from that.

Mark Jones 1:03:31

So figure that out, guys. This has been a great discussion. Tons of valuable information that the folks listening can actually take and utilize and formulate their own opinions on, maybe cross-reference with their own personal lender. And if you don't, hey, look us up. Um we're here. I do thank you both for joining me today. It's a pleasure to meet you. It was a pleasure. I'm gonna start sending you my lending too. No, don't do that, don't do that. No, that's my dog right there. And now I want to talk to you guys. I want to first ask, and this is I don't know, rhetorical or whatever you want to call it, but when was the last time you pressed your insurance for lower payments? When was the last time you went to McDonald's and complained about their pricing? When was the last time you went and bought shoes and tried to negotiate with the cashier about a lower price? Rarely ever happens. How much are those shoes making you in the long run? How much did that Big Mac get you to the next whatever phase in your life that you could leverage? And my point is rates are rates, guys. You've got property that can eventually build some equity for yourself that then down the road you can leverage to utilize to grow your empire, whatever that may be, pay off old debt, put kids through college, pass down generations, make memories. But I think what we need to get off of is focusing so heavily on interest rates and be more informed about the strategy that you're actually using to purchase your home. Get with professionals like John and Colin here and do the research. Stop getting on headlines and actually speak to an individual that does this for a living. I guarantee you, I'm not gonna go to a doctor to ask him mortgage advice. Okay. That being said, guys, we are gonna continue to bring you guests like this in the lineup for 2026. Let's throw this on the screen. Let's get to it and your channel. We are just under 40,000 subscribers. I think we can do it by the end of next month. So we do need your help to do that. Like I said, guys, like, subscribe, share with a friend. If you're getting something out of this, please make sure to do so. But other than that, we will catch you on the next one.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:53

Adios. Tuesday, get better. Wednesday, get better. If you do that for five years, ten years, fifteen years, how much better will you be? Are you getting better every single day? That's the real question. And it all comes down to taking small steps. You don't have to accomplish everything in one day or even one week. Just focus on getting a little better every single day.