Servant Leader The Battlefield They Don't Talk About

Servant leadership sounds great… until the market gets tough.

** This video features a discussion about servant leadership, focusing on its meaning and implications. The content appears to be a podcast episode, as indicated by the microphones and studio setting. Several individuals are shown, with one prominently speaking into a microphone throughout the clips. This conversation provides valuable insights into leadership and offers practical business talk for anyone looking to enhance their leadership skills and understand different leadership theories. It's great for leadership development and overall leadership motivation. Based in San Antonio, TX.

In this episode of Real Estate AF (And Finance), Mark Jones sits down with AJ Reygadas and Rick Graham to break down what servant leadership looks like in real life—culture, trust, mindset, and the uncomfortable lessons most “leaders” avoid.

What you’ll learn:

👉 The real definition of servant leadership (and where it came from)
👉 Why mindset is the first battlefield for leaders
👉 How to build culture without letting toxicity spread
👉 When to let agents struggle (and when to step in)
👉 Why financial literacy matters more when you lead people
👉 How tech/AI can elevate leaders—or expose the ones faking it

Guests:
AJ Reygadas — Broker/Owner, First Choice Realty Group
Rick Graham — Broker/Owner, Impact Realty (San Antonio)

Chapters:
👉 Get Better Every Day (Opening Mindset)
👉 What “AF” Really Means + Show Mission
👉  Meet the Guests: AJ Reygadas & Rick Graham
👉 Rick’s Story: From Bet to Real Estate
👉 What Servant Leadership Actually Is
👉 The Battlefield: Mindset, Culture, Trust
👉 Today’s Market: Why Real Leaders Stand Out
👉 People First vs Systems First
👉 Financial Reality for Servant Leaders
👉 Tech & AI: Tool or Trap?
👉 Rapid Fire: Leadership Truths
👉 Closing Message + Challenge

Question for you:

Channel Disclosure:
Mark Jones, Senior Loan Officer | NMLS # 513437
iThink Mortgage powered by Premier Mortgage Resources | NMLS # 1169
Equal Housing Lender

All content on this channel is for educational purposes only and does not constitute a commitment to lend. Loan terms and availability are subject to credit approval, underwriting guidelines, and market conditions. Opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my company.

No compensation is given or received for referrals, endorsements, or podcast appearances, in compliance with RESPA. Guests speak on their own behalf. Mortgage examples used in videos are hypothetical and may not reflect current rates or borrower eligibility. LoanBot is an educational tool only and does not provide loan approvals.

For personalized mortgage advice, please contact me directly.

00:00 Get Better Every Day
00:38 Episode Intro & Guests
02:18 Why This Show Exists
04:11 Rick’s Story & Faith
05:05 A Bet Changed Everything
07:12 Building Culture and Trust
09:18 What Servant Leadership Means
11:09 Today’s Leadership Battlefield
16:00 Producer to Leader Shift
31:09 Leadership in Today’s Market
43:19 Money, Sacrifice, and Service
55:11 Let Agents Fail or Save?
1:07:24 Technology: Tool or Crutch
1:11:19 Rapid Fire Leadership Truths
1:16:10 What You’re Remembered For

Transcript

Daily Improvement Challenge

SPEAKER_00 0:00

At the end of every day, look at yourself in the mirror and ask, did I get better today? Monday, get better. Tuesday, get better. Wednesday, get better. If you do that for five years, ten years, fifteen years, how much better will you be? Are you getting better every single day? That's the real question. And it all comes down to taking small steps. You don't have to accomplish everything in one day or even one week. Just focus on getting a little better every single day.

Defining Servant Leadership

Mark Jones 0:38

And welcome back to another episode of Real Estate AF, where the AF stands for and finance, and I'm your host, Mark Jones, and we are powered by Lone Bot, Smarter Mortgage Matching, where you can find it on Apple Store and Google Play. And today we're going to be diving into a topic that I think most would be terrified of actually talking about in public because it is a very selfless way of going about life. And I say life because it doesn't just apply to your business, it applies to the way that you operate as a person, as a leader. And today we're going to be talking about servant leadership. And I've brought along two folks, one that has been on the pod quite a few times. I love having him on. And another gentleman that I just recently met, and I'm thrilled to learn more about him. So without further ado, let me introduce AJ Regatus. AJ, how are you doing?

SPEAKER_04 1:32

Good, man. I'm excited to be here again. I feel like I'm turning into one of the regulars like a Joe Rogan podcast. I started having inside jokes the whole night. But just funny, when you were talking right now, I was just, I kind of chuckled because I was like, that's what AF stands for this whole time. I'm like thinking in my head what I think it stands for.

Mark Jones 1:50

And I'm like, oh yes, yes, and food. No. And then we have Rick Graham. Rick, how are you?

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Man, I appreciate it. I'm doing well. Yeah. When we talk about stuff like this, you mentioned he's been on it a couple times, and I was like, what is AF stand? And food. I don't care what the right answer is, and food expenditures. You made a joke. We're not doing well.

Mark Jones 2:15

So the whole idea behind the show in itself, we started this three years ago, and we've just been chugging along. We are now at 39,700 subscribers. JC, if you want to show that up on the screen, we're we're still moving, just under 40,000 subscribers, and we are talking raw, unfiltered, true experiences regarding mortgage and real estate, entrepreneurship, leadership, insurance. We talk about all these types of things. And for me, it's become this very inexpensive therapy where I get to have intellectual conversations with cool people. Saves me plenty of money there because we're not making money from the show in particular, but it gives us an opportunity to educate others out there. And I think that education and sharing is highly underrated.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

I love that, man. Empowering people is part of education. Yeah. Right. So when we're talking about empowering and we're talking about education, we're talking about putting them in a position to determine their own fate in life. And I love a conversation where I'm in a room full of people that are looking to grow. The mindset isn't about me. That's right. The mindset is about every single person, 40,000 almost inclining. Let's hit over 40,000 after this one. But it's it's about the other people on the other side of this screen that's going to hear us.

Rick’s Origin Story And Faith

Mark Jones 3:35

Absolutely. I have to agree a hundred percent with that. And it took us a while to get here. So this is not an overnight type concept. I think the idea is consistency and showing that we can be consistent with our conversations, with the guests and our conversations, truly. But Rick, tell me about you, man. I want to know who Rick Graham is, where you came from, how you got in the business, and what you're doing now.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Absolutely, man. So thank you again so much for the platform, the time, the relationships. Uh, because that's what this life's about. This like this is what this business is about. It's the relationships that we can create together. Uh so snapshot into who Rick Graham is. Before anything, I'm a son of God. So I'm huge on my faith. I'm a father right after that. Uh I knew at a very young age I wanted to be a dad. I picked my son's name out when I was 12. That's a true story. Uh that's a true story. His name's Roman Graham. Nice. And you know, right after being a father, I've always really just wanted to make a difference. Um, so as a kid, I was always in leadership roles. I went into the military for a little while. I'm from New York originally. The military brought me down here when I met my at-the-time wife. Fast forward 20 years of marriage. Uh my daughter's 27, my son's 10 at this point. It's been an amazing journey. And how I got into real estate is I lost the bet. Okay. I'm dead serious. I lost a bet. Like, like, I don't know if you guys play cards in the middle of the night on a Friday, Saturday. We're sitting at the table. I mean, a buddy of mine, Eli Perez, shout out to Eli, he's a good man. He's like, for a year, he'd been after me. He was like, Rick, you gotta get into real estate. You gotta get into real estate. I was like, what do I know about real estate? I'm running a house. Like nobody in my family had ever owned a house. You know, there's five boys in my household. My mom and grandmother raised us, best women I've never known in my life. Hope to be a tenth of them. Yeah, you know what I mean. So, anyways, he was talking to me about get into real estate, get into real estate, get into real estate. And I just, my first love in life is football. Okay, same, my first love in life is football. So at the time I was doing, I was a general manager for indoor football arena league. Very cool. Over 17 states, it was amazing. I was traveling, I was doing all kinds of things, well taken care of, right? Yeah, that stopped. I decided to make a change in life. We moved in a different direction, and I was in that that weird phase in life where what's next? Yeah, right. So I'm sitting there and the bills are hitting, and I'm like, ooh, we gotta figure this thing out, right? So we're sitting there, we're we're playing cards, we're drinking a beer, and Eli just out of nowhere, like just randomly, he's like, I forgot to cash a$12,000 check. Like, like I'm just sitting there, we're playing cards, and I'm like, baby woman, right? So he's like, I'm not looking at him like, come on, man, like just play your cards. Let's go, you're losing anyways, right? So we go back and forth a little bit about it. And he's like, No, I'm serious. Like, I it's on it's on my dresser right now from real estate. It's uh it's life-changing money, man. I was like, You go home right now and you bring a$12,000 check to the table. I'm starting real estate tonight. Eight years here I am, eight years later, here I am. Okay, so got into real estate, Levi Rogers. Shout out to Levi Rogers, gave me an opportunity when I didn't necessarily deserve it. Opened up an expansion market in Fort Hood Clean, helped open up Austin, came down to San Antonio, became a mentor for them. Went from just an individual real estate agent doing an amazing job to following a passion and a dream, which is to inspire people to greatness and then help you achieve it. I like it. Yeah, so he gave me an opportunity to become a mentor. I went from just me, myself, and I to over a hundred real estate agents that I had retained, retained, recruited, built a culture around, a system around, a process around before stepping out into big boy world and doing it for myself with Impact Realty. All here in San Antonio? All here in San Antonio.

Mark Jones 7:17

Wow, did we not cross paths?

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Man, but we did now.

Mark Jones 7:20

We have amen. Yeah, I mean, we weren't even Facebook friends before this.

SPEAKER_03 7:25

I'm like, whoa.

Mark Jones 7:27

AJ hit me with you gotta have this guy on the show. And I went, Who is he? And popped on there, and I went, I've gotta have that guy on the show.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Yeah, I love it, man. And uh, so AJ, we we crossed paths, man. Yeah, we crossed paths, and it was an accident. So some people say it's accident, some people say it's it's destiny, baby. Destiny.

Mark Jones 7:44

That's destiny, yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

That's God's hands in work in life. Yes, sir. Right? So uh we crossed paths and he sat me down, like he didn't know me from nowhere. Okay, and he just sat me down, and he said, Let's take 20 minutes, catch up, introduce each other two hours later, right?

SPEAKER_04 8:00

I kept on asking him, like, are you good on time, bro?

SPEAKER_01 8:03

Two hours later, and we're sitting there, and uh from there, man, it's it's just been uh a really cool brotherhood. So it's been a great journey. I'm happy to be here. Uh, I wanted to talk about serving leadership today because I wanted people to get a glimpse in behind the business. Yeah, right. So a lot of times we get so focused on the next deal, we get so focused on the contract, we get so focused on compliance and and the the bank account and the stress and the next lead and the the social media post schedule that you got to be consistent with. But we don't talk about the person, we don't talk about that personal development that take that's what it takes to keep the fuel burning when everyone else falls off. Yeah. So for me, servant leadership is that thing that I found that I'm most good at that fulfills me uh because I get to fulfill other people.

Mark Jones 8:48

Absolutely. Well, for those listening, I want to frame this a little bit for you because when you hear the words servant leader, there's many things that could come to mind. And I want to kind of give you guys the root of where this comes from. It says, and this is the most understood, widely defined within the real estate industry. It's a leadership approach where the agent, broker, or team leader prioritizes the growth, well-being, and success of clients and team members above their personal gains, commission, or their ego, with long-term trust as the primary goal. Meaning they're going to put everything that they hold dear on the back burner to push everyone forward, spill it all in hopes that this all pays out in the end or pays off in the end. Now, this concept was actually coined in 1970 by Robert Greenleaf. Don't know if you knew that or not. And he basically was a leader within the community, and this was his philosophy. He defined it as servant leader as someone who served first, then leads, which I think is pretty cool that it's been around for quite some time and now implemented, and we use it to the day. And how do I say this? It's not necessarily to a detriment detriment, but some can lead to their own demise in many cases if they don't do it properly. It it just truly is. And those are some of the things that I want to talk about today. But I want to ask you both the first question of the topic because we are talking about servant leadership, we have to define where our arena is. What are we leading? What does it look like? So I ask you both, what does the battlefield look like in today's world?

Why Servant Leaders Put People First

SPEAKER_04 10:41

And I'll say this. And I guess as a leader, it depends on where you're at in your journey, right? Year one, which we were kind of talking about earlier. Year one, it's it's a 24-7 battlefield, you know. And so battling with understanding like your mindset, you know, like understanding that you're also battling with your thoughts, you know, like and and so that first year, I would even say the first 15 months is is the biggest challenge of mental fitness, of course, if you got your plan laid out and everything, everything's gonna work fine, but but understanding, like, hey, this was the right decision, right? This is worth the sacrifice, and and you're building something different, building something to grow that people are gonna not just follow with you, but walk that path with you into this journey of of an environment or culture of people that that are just all in it for the same reason, right? And and what I mean by that is, you know, I've been very cautious about the type of people we bring in the brokerage because it's like, you know, I've said it before, like I tell agents, look, I don't care if your goal is only to sell one home or a hundred homes. What I care more about is what you can put into this co this company, you know, in the in regards to the culture, participating with our events and and masterminding with the agents, you know. I'd rather have that agent that sells one home a year rather and but but has the great personality, the perfect fit for the culture that we've adds value. Adds value rather than that agent that sells 50 to 100 homes a year, but is like thinking they're the shit and doesn't care about anybody else. And it's like I don't care for that agent. That's right, you know, and so so being able to identify those things, what's most important to you as a leader when you're establishing something new, something different, and then sticking to your guns, you know, knowing like, hey, yes, I could use that money because that agent's a producer, but at the same time, we're creating something beautiful here, and I don't want to jeopardize that, you know. So I think the biggest battlefield for yourself though, as a leader is always gonna be your mindset.

Mark Jones 12:43

Absolutely, man. I can't I can't disagree with that at all.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

What are your thoughts? And I love that. I'm gonna I'm gonna steal two one word from you, Ajana, and one word from you, Mark. Uh, you said trust and you said culture. Right. So for me, I'm in that first year of ramp up, right? So building a team, figuring out what all that looks like. So for me, that that battlefield is creating an environment where people trust you with the thing they're most holding dear, which is how they provide for what matters most to them is their family.

SPEAKER_03 13:12

Absolutely.

The Battlefield: Mindset, Trust, Culture

SPEAKER_01 13:13

Trust. Yeah, trust is a battlefield that you earn on a day-to-day basis by the acts that you take or do not take. Right. And it's so underrated, but it's a word that we use that often. And from a business perspective, it's the culture. Right. Like, how do I create an environment that is conducive to somebody saying, I trust this guy to lead me forward to where I want to go, to get me to where I want to be, and then to challenge me not just to maintain that, but to grow to my capacity, right? So capacity versus potential. So potential is something that is a future of what we can be, whereas capacity is right where we are, where our feet are in this moment. Yeah. Right. So that's the battlefield for me. Like, and and that's not down to downplay the fact that this this shit is hard as I don't know. Absolutely. Yes, sir. Baby, if you don't know how to about starting a business or getting out there and doing something you've never done before, it is not for the weak hearted, it is not for the faint. But I will tell you that this is one of the most rewarding things outside of being the first set of hands that held my son when he was born. This is one of the most rewarding things because I had a meeting this morning and it almost left me in tears because the people that trust me, the culture that we're all trying to create on our own different levels and different fields and different journeys and paths, it's there. They're winning, right? That's servant leadership. I go first. Yeah, absolutely.

Mark Jones 14:35

So here is a this is a question that I didn't pre-script, but it comes up right now in your conversation, which is as a producer, because you start as a producer, you can't really lead to a certain extent without going through it first. Yeah, that's just my opinion. I don't believe in the whole those who can't coach. Yeah, I'm like those who did coach. How and at what point do you realize that that's the path that you would like to go down? Because it's it's servant leader, not servant producer. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does.

SPEAKER_04 15:17

Yeah, well, so and and I hope I'm answering your question correctly, but what what I'm what I what I'm taking from the question is, you know, so in 2019, I started playing with the idea of starting a coaching program for realtors. Okay, right. That's when I was doing my seminars for real estate agents, and it really took off. And and that's that's what catapulted me when I started first choice of a lot of agents joining, because it's like, man, I've been following for years. I've been I've been going to your classes or you know, and so that helped me, but but my initial thought, my idea initially was I wanted to start a coaching platform. Okay. Never thought about starting first choice realty or anything like that. Like that was never in my future plans. That just kind of stumbled on me through frustration. Makes sense, right? Through frustration during 2020, where it's like, and and you know, I I still talk about this broker to the till this day that he's the best broker I've ever worked for, but but at the end of the day, I was able to identify, like, man, at the end of the day, you're transactional, like to them, you know, and so it's surface level. And granted, he was always there when I needed him, which I've instilled a lot of his his his leadership values, but but at the end of the day, it was it's transactional, it's surface level, you know. And so I remember there was a question I brought to him about, and I'll I'll just say it, you know, so that when when the shutdown happened in 2020, you know, I had so many things going on in my life, just like everybody, right? Um I had a I had an agent on my team that I had to deal with on January 1st, you know, then then COVID happens. We have 14 deals in escrow, and in a matter of a week, 10 of them get wiped off, you know, and so it's like if you don't have a 700 credit score, you're not closing. DPA's frozen, uh, furloughs are happening. It was all just happening in a matter of a week. So then that happens. And then my cap starts over at the brokerage that I'm with, right? So now I'm on the hook for 19 grand. Then my top agent on my team says, Hey, I'm going to a flat fee brokerage, right? So then that happens. Then me and my girlfriend break up at the time. And so I'm just like, oh my God. Then the very next month in April, oh, so now the shutdown happens and now it's all over the news. So it's like there's this dark cloud on the regatus group at that time where it's like, shit's just happening everywhere to AJ, you know? And so I wasn't in a pity me moment, but it was more of a how do I get out of this? You know, like I'm going through a season right now, which actually this tattoo is it tells my season from 2020. But but going back to what I was referring to, the the way that the thought of starting the brokerage was on May 5th when they opened the doors back up, right? When the shutdown ended. And and my broker goes, here you go, you got an outstanding balance for your office space here for the past two months. And I was like, We couldn't even come to the office, though, man. Like, you're still gonna charge me for that. Wow. And it wasn't even so much about how much it was, right? Because it wasn't much, but it was more of the principle of like, dude, you're still gonna bill me. Like, I couldn't even come here, you know? And that's when I really started looking at it as okay, this is this is a corporation, right? And it's it's a corporate mindset. And so these thoughts just started flirting in my head, like, you know what? Like, I can see if I had a brokerage, I would treat my agents this way, I would make them feel like family, and and you know, just making sure they know that it goes beyond how much you're making from them, you know. And so those thoughts started flirting, and then I remember having a team meeting with my team, and they're just I was like, we're gonna start a brokerage. What are we gonna call it? But we're not starting it till next year in February when my cap starts over. That's right, right, because we're 100% for the rest of the time. Plenty of time to come up with our logo. So that's when the the name, the logo, it was all compiled. I didn't come up with none of it. It was my team at the time that came up with all of it. But but I guess the point is just understanding, like, you know, that if you have an opportunity, a platform to to and you have that servant leadership values, then then jump with it and run with it and just put put it all on your faith. Yeah, you're a Christian man, you know, but put it all on your faith. And I'll say this everything happens for a reason at the time that it happens, yeah. Because if this opportunity would have crossed my path, you know, back in 2015, oh dude, I would have crashed and burned.

SPEAKER_03 19:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:27

Because at that time, I was the age-every goddess that was cocky, arrogant. I thought I was the best agent in the city, one of the best in the country. Like I was above everybody.

Mark Jones 19:37

Dude, 2015, we both did.

SPEAKER_04 19:40

Bro, dude, I thought I was better than everybody. I had my faith in everything. And and and it was me being led to my faith. Yep. You know, it I was in a relationship at that time, and she was like, I love you for the man that you are. She's like, but you're missing God in your life. And I remember chuckling when she said that, like, okay. Wow. And she asked me to go to church with her. I go to church with her. I thought it was the weirdest thing ever, a non-denominational. Yeah. So I go to CBC and I'm just like, this is weird. She's like, wear whatever you want. I grew up Catholic. Yeah. I had to wear suit and tie to go to church on Sunday. It's informal, which my ADD had never worked, you know. But she was like, What did you think? I was like, it was weird. Like, I'm in my jeans, everyone's singing for 30 minutes. The pastor only speaks for like 20 minutes. Like, it was just weird. It's big here, everyone's chanting. Yeah. And man, it changed my life.

Mark Jones 20:30

Like, I caught some somebody caught the Holy Ghost right next to me, bro.

SPEAKER_04 20:34

It changed my life. My whole perspective on life, on leadership, on fatherhood, yeah, changed. And that is when like people praise me till this day, like, oh, you're such an amazing dad. I'm like, y'all didn't know me before. It's not that I was a bad dad, right? I just thought that my perception of fatherhood is I'm taking care of everything financially. Yeah. I'm doing my part. Right. Now it's more obviously like more intimate, like being with my kids and traveling with my kids and spending that quality.

From Producer To Leader

Mark Jones 21:00

And I'm gonna take it a step further. Now you've found a purpose, you've found your calling, and and you've adhered to that, you've adopted to that calling and you've been empowered for that. I think faith that is a very strong reason to go about the things that you're doing today. Uh being a servant leader, that is something that we show by faith is what was taking place back then. You know, you also mentioned that everything happens for a reason. I couldn't, I couldn't agree more. I've been through plenty of what is the word like where you you win, like the opposite of a downfall or windfall. Windfall. Had plenty of them. For every one of those, I've had double the downfalls. And without those, and I meant what I said earlier, without those, I would not appreciate the wins as much. I would not Appreciate the way and direction that I was taken because of those instances. Yeah, grown teams, lost teams, and then you find out okay, wait a minute, that was supposed to happen. You know, that that that that person is supposed to go out there and be the best they could be.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

Yeah. How about you, Rick? Man, I love that. That you guys are dropping some bombs right now. I'm gonna be a little vulnerable with you guys because you know, getting in going from being a top producer or being a very good producer, hitting your goals, whatever, whatever, however you define it, and then turning that into being a servant leader or being a leader at all, right? You know, I'll be honest, I was ambitious. I was so ambitious. Yeah, I mean, like to the point where I was like, yo, I'm I'm gonna do anything and everything that I gotta do to do the next thing that's gonna get me to the next goal.

Mark Jones 22:46

And and I'll uh that was your mindset. Absolutely. Every person that's been in this podcast studio, I would say has a variation of that mindset. We are going to do what it takes. Yeah, the whole team's gone, great, cool. Deal with it, time to knuckle up and get going again.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

I was I was adamant, I was obsessed with growth, I was obsessed with doing more, having more, because you know, I didn't come from much. You know what I mean? Like I owned my first pair of jeans that I owned by myself that I didn't have to share with nobody else. I was like almost 17 years old. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, and and I I was I didn't know enough to know how bad it was. Right. Yeah, right. It was just normal. So getting out into the world, getting into the military, getting out of the military, I'm telling you, dude, like in the back of my mind, there was this I don't know what it's called, uh poor man's mindset, maybe where I will never be that again. I will never go through that again. And so with that pushing me forward, I was like, yo, whatever gets me more money, whatever gets me faster to my goals, I'm gonna do those things. Right. So that's how I kind of like pushed myself into real estate. And when that opportunity came, like I before I finished onboarding with Levi, I was like, How do I how do I become a leader? How do I how do I do that? Like, where was the next step for me? Yeah, right. I haven't even I hadn't even sold a house yet. Let's sold a house. I'm already talking about what's the next step. So it took four years, four years almost, five years, but when before that that opportunity was presented to me. And I remember when I I came to San Antonio, and I came to San Antonio about three months before the opportunity was presented to me, right? And I came down and I'm coming from an area where the average price point's like 145. And San Antonio at the time was like 275, and it's almost damn near double or a little over double. And I was like, yo, I'm about to kill it. Yeah, right. That first quarter, I put like almost$80,000 in escrow uh for my family, right? And I'm like, dude, I'm this is it, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. And lo and behold, I took my eye off the prize about leadership and anything on those online. And then Levi was like, hey, what do you think about this? What do you think about becoming a mentor? And I was like, What? You know what I mean?

Mark Jones 24:53

Take a step back from what you're you've already created, your momentum's going, and now you're like, wait a minute. I thought about this in the beginning, but correct that kind of passed by, and now I'm being asked to take a step back, or is it take a step up? So that was a challenge for me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

And that in that season of my life, that was a huge challenge for me because I was like, yo, as I defined it at the time, I was winning.

SPEAKER_03 25:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Right? I was winning. Yeah. Right. So one of the things that kind of shifted gears for me at that point was is it about me or is it about my purpose? Is it about my first name or is it about my last name? I like that. Right. And so I decided for me and mine, it's about my last name. So I don't hustle for Rick. Right. I hustle for Graham.

Mark Jones 25:41

Let me ask you, Rick, there there many times is a moment within, let's say, a top producer's life that similar to me, similar to AJ, we came from very little. And you don't really know what not only you are capable of, but what anyone is capable of until you get in the different rooms to see that wait a minute, I know that guy personally, and that's what he's able to do. Type concept. Right. Wait a minute. He's making a million dollars. Wait, like, I'm an arm's reach away from this person. Right, it's not a Fugazi, right? This is real, you know, and for me, that happened early on, where I'm in rooms with people that are making some cash and they're doing it in the same profession that I'm doing. Like, wait a minute, yeah, I'm way better looking. I talk better than this person. Like, say it again with Sidney Jess. Like, wait a minute. That before that, to a certain extent, you don't even think that it's possible.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Yeah. Does that make sense? Before I got into real estate, when I tell you that I completely brushed off Eli when he was telling me, yo, dude, you got to get into real estate, you gotta get into real estate, not knowing that real estate was going to change my life, it was gonna change my family's life, it's gonna change the quality of life that I was able to provide for my kids. It was going to change hundreds of families' lives that closed deals with the agents that I was responsible for for my individual production. Yeah, not knowing any of that, right? Like to your point, man, it's crazy. It's crazy. So, you know, that that shift over from production for me into leadership. I took that role, I started hustling for the last name. And then I would have I had I'd been praying to God for greatness. I was like, God, I want to be great. God, I want to be great. And it wasn't about the name on the billboard, it wasn't about my my my face splashed everywhere. It was just being great wherever my feet are planted.

SPEAKER_03 27:42

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

And I had been praying and praying and praying for that. And and a year goes by, two years go by, four years go by, and I'm sitting there getting frustrated and angry. Yeah, yo, I'm I'm better than that. I I built a better team, I've done this, I've done that, I have this, I've I've been here. All these things to your point, timing, God's timing, right? Yes, I struggle to this to this day. Forgive me, but but it's God's timing. I had to go through those things because I wasn't ready. Yeah. If if the transition from my previous brokerage to stepping out into the world and creating impact realty would have happened any time sooner than what it did, it would have never got off the ground. Yeah, it would have never gotten off the ground. I had to go through it. And so, a little bit of long answer to your question, man. I will tell you that the first shift of leadership for me happened when I decided it wasn't about me anymore.

SPEAKER_03 28:35

There you go.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

The second shift where I'm at in my life right now, when it I it's not about me anymore, now it's not even about my family anymore. It's about the people that trust me. Yeah. To do what I do so that they can do what they do. I love that. Yes.

Mark Jones 28:53

And and and when people talk about gambling on going for what you believe in, going for what you truly Yeah, I get it. But servant the servant, the servant leader mindset is the biggest gambler, in my opinion, because they are going on the full faith that they will continue to pour into people. I use the concept of making deposits. I keep making deposits into people in hopes, faith that this will pay off. And in many cases, it doesn't pour servant leaders, but they still continue to do what they do. It's like it it becomes who you are, not only just your persona, but your way of life, your way of going about everything. Anywho, that that so next topic, next next topic, next question, which is in today's market, we've got higher rates, we've got uh buyer sentiment. It's coming up, but there's still plenty of room to go there. In today's market, uh is being a servant leader more important or less important than how it was when the markets were doing great.

SPEAKER_04 30:12

Oh, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I definitely think that it's more important. Okay, mainly because you see people becoming leaders in this market. And man, and that's the part that's frustrating is you see servant leadership being floated around too, too easily, like a coin phrase.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

Yeah, it's a phrase that people toss out. Yeah, man.

Timing, Purpose, And Humility

SPEAKER_04 30:37

And it I think that with today, it's more important because you you tend to see the real the realness out of people. Like there's no there's no faking it's right right now. You know, there's we're not in a market. Nope. And where where where everyone can post the can't do both? No, that's right. I'll start on the market in 24 hours, got 20 offers. You know, like there's no there's no market for that right now. So so you're really getting to find out who the true leaders are right now, servant leadership, right? Because they're sticking to their guns and what they made that commitment to, whether it was to themselves, to their team, to their their group, their brokerage, whatever it may be, you're finding out right now. You know, and so that's why I think that right now it's most important because you're gonna be able to easily, if you're if you're let's say that that agent right in the industry, you're gonna be able to identify that a lot easier on who the real ones are, you know? And so that's why I think right now is more important because if we had that that that 2021 market that we had, yeah, right now, oh, everyone's gonna be calling themselves a leader. Everyone's gonna be calling themselves a top producer. Everyone's gonna be saying they sold this listing in X amount of hours, you know what I mean? So, like it's it's I think right now we're getting to identify who the real ones are. Yeah, not just in leadership either, though, just the the producers, the ones that talk. Yeah, are they backing their guns now? You know, like are they are they sticking to what they say? Absolutely. So, yeah, I think that right now.

Mark Jones 32:01

So, with with you, when you started your brokerage, and it leads me to this question did you go into it with the concept of, and I think I know the answer to this systems first or people first? People first, okay. Yeah, it was and the people I would imagine help develop the systems. Yes, okay.

SPEAKER_04 32:21

Yeah, because one thing that I've been very open to the past several years is constructive criticism from your people.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:30

Right. Yeah. What is it that you would like to see more of? What do you wish we had more of? You know, but also before that, it starts with when you're bringing that person on. There's this, these two quest two part questions I always like to ask that agent is where you're coming from, what do you wish you had more of? And what are you not happy with? Why, why are you entertaining leaving where you're coming from? Right. You know, because for one, I want to see if we can offer what you're looking for, otherwise we're just gonna be that revolving. The next one, yeah, you know, or is it even realistic what you're expecting to get? Good point, you know, because if it's not realistic, then I don't know if I want you. Yeah, you know, good point. Because you're just gonna be a problem. And so when you ask those questions, and of course, you got to go off of what they're telling you and have your yeah, use your gut, right? Of course, your intuition, but at the same time, going off of those asking purposeful questions to bring on that that potential talent, and then opening up the door to those people by saying, Hey, now share with me, what do y'all want more of? What do you what do you wish we had more of? I have made several mistakes in regards to bringing on that wrong agent where it's it's the mentality of what have you done for me lately? Yeah. You know, and you got to be careful with that. Absolutely.

Mark Jones 33:44

Because that not only is a problem, it can become a bigger problem because that cancer is infectious.

SPEAKER_04 33:51

It spreads. Yes, sir. It spreads. Also, it's you're just never gonna satisfy that person. I wasn't saying that agent, but that person, you're they're never gonna be satisfied. You know, there's been countless moments where I've I can identify, I've done specific things where I've I've gone a little bit above and beyond for that agent because I just see what they're going through, I know what they're going through. And then a month or two from then, it's like, yeah, but what have you done for me lately? You know, absolutely not necessarily saying those words, no, you're right. Mindset, you're right, you know. So, yeah, being careful with that too is very important.

Mark Jones 34:21

So, Rick, have you have you ever gone through something similar to that? Because I personally have, and and nothing kicks your your belief of why you set out to do this and the path that you're on and makes you question things when something like that happens. You've got these folks that you've just you're pouring into, pouring into, and the most important thing to them, fast forward, is what have you done for me lately?

Is Servant Leadership More Vital Now?

SPEAKER_01 34:48

Yeah, absolutely. And I would tell you that you know, I used to think about it like a negative thing. Like this is a negative thing, right? Like, how could you you don't see all this value, you don't see all this time, you don't see all these sacrifices, you don't see my care, you don't see my consideration. The fact that I'm putting you before myself, you don't see all of this, yeah, right. I used to feel that way because I wanted their success more than they wanted their success. Such a good point, such a good point. Yeah, elaborate, go for it. I'm telling you, man, like I've never been the smartest man in the room, I've never been the tallest, the strongest, the fastest, the none of it. I've never been best looking, maybe top two, top two most. I'll take that one. Uh but I'm telling you, like, you know, that's always been the case. So I've had to work my ass off. Yeah. You know, my mom, not my mom, but my grandmother's from South Carolina. She was born in like the 1990s or 1912, 1918, something like that, right? She came up in a whole different culture, time in our in our country, politics, all kinds of things, right? But I remember when I was a kid, my grandmother would always tell us like, like, you gotta be better than everyone around you to get the fair shot. Yeah. Right? Right, wrong, or indifferent. And I'm not saying that's today, I'm not saying it's applicable to this moment, but I'm telling you that's how I grew up. Right. My grandmother, I'd she'd be sitting out in the basement with a little brown bag, she's trying to hide her little little beer that she's drinking that she's not supposed to be drinking and see on her medication. I would do. Hey, hey, I'm that's it as well. And she'd be like, shut that door, baby. I'm not sitting there talking to her. And like she sit there, and I remember sitting on the on the steps at her feet, and she'd be telling me different things. And one of the things that stuck to me was, you gotta you gotta be better just to get the fair shot, right? Yep. So I say all that to say that's how I approach my business. Yeah, that's how I approach my life, that's how I approach my family. Yeah, that's how I approach myself. Like I hold myself to an extremely high standard to the point where it may be unhealthy at some times, right? But I realized that I felt so negative about the fact that these agents, you know, when you pour into them and you're doing these things and you're sacrificing, you're giving, and you're it somebody told me this the tie always goes to the runner. And in our business, as leaders, that's our agents. Yeah, right. Right. And I and that's how I came up in the business. Yeah. And I and it wasn't until I realized that I wanted their success more than they wanted their success for themselves. And it wasn't until I realized that I can't do the work for them. Right. And I have to be okay with a with the true, authentic look in that mirror. When I wake up in the morning, disregard the messy hair and the dragon breath. You know what I mean? I'm good with the man in the mirror because I know I showed up for the people that mattered. I know I was consistent. I know I did what I said I was gonna do. Yeah, right. And when I fall short, servant leadership point that I I embody for myself is I own that. I don't ask anybody to take responsibility for the outcomes beyond myself. That's right. Whether it's mine or not. Yeah, whether it's mine or not.

Mark Jones 38:03

I love that. So you mentioned something, and I don't want to get political, but I do want to bring this up. You mentioned that your grandma used to tell you that you needed to be better than better. Yeah, you've gotta do more than more type concept.

SPEAKER_01 38:22

Just to get the fair shot.

Mark Jones 38:23

Just to get the fair shot. Now, us being biracial in this room. Yeah, my father, my grandmother, they would all tell me the same thing, but it wasn't rooted in race. It wasn't rooted in my skin color. It was rooted in the fact that you're competing with every other Tom, Dick, and Harry out there, and they're gonna be wanting to do the same thing.

SPEAKER_03 38:46

Yeah.

Mark Jones 38:47

And I say that because I come from a family with the white grandma, Mexican grandpa, black grandparents on the other side. I mean, we we didn't care. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They would party together, they would fight together, all of it didn't matter. Yeah, we didn't see color, we saw opportunity, we saw adversity, we saw what it took for some to get through that adversity, and then we just pass it on. You gotta work harder than the next character, but your family saw character and they instilled that in you.

People First Or Systems First?

SPEAKER_01 39:15

Yes. My grandmother understood, and I'm I don't want to speak for her, but my my perception of it is she again, much, much older than us, and and it was rooted for her. She race a lot different stuff, right? Yeah, but beyond the race, because beyond the race, because my month, my mother adopted all of us, so all we're all adopted. So it's five boys that my my mother adopted, keep getting a little personal with you guys for a little bit. Is it safe to do that? Absolutely. Let's do it then. My grandmother and my mom, my mom adopted all five of the boys that that were raised uh that are my brothers, right? And uh so for us, it wasn't so much just in you know, one of my brothers is uh is white, two of them are black, one's Hispanic, you know, and then Ira, who's passed away, was mixed like me. So, so we had a smoker's board in our house, right? Right. And one of the things that right behind you gotta be better is that we're no better than anyone. Great point. Right, we're no better than anyone else. And it's the character of the man or the woman that you're judged on or that you should judge. Yeah. Not the color of their skin. Now, what the world that we live in is the world that we live in, and I'm not gonna ignore that. But for me and mine, the way I teach my son, because you know, we don't have a basement in Texas, you know, the way I teach my son is it's it's how if family is the people that show up as family. Yeah. So if you can depend on that person, they can hold they hold your confidence. When it's good, they're there, when it's tough, it's there. When it's just another day, it's there. Yeah. Right? That's family. Yeah, that's family. Yeah, that's family, bro. Absolutely. So I hope that answers.

Mark Jones 40:54

No, it sure does. And and and the reason why I brought that up is I had a feeling that grandma meant that by way of race. Yeah, I wanted to give the other side of the token to where that's being instilled in me, and it wasn't about the race concept. Yeah. And how cool is it that fast forward to today, and I I believe this with my whole heart, it's not about race. It's what can you do? Yes. How hard are you going to work? Yes, how are you going to work or outwork the next person and the next person? Because guess what? Everybody's starving. That's that's that's my point.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

Everybody's starving, baby. Yes, and there's only so much to go around.

Mark Jones 41:29

And to instill that at a young age, even if it was rooted in race, doesn't change the fact that it's an adopted trait that you now have. Yeah. Does that you get what I'm saying there?

unknown 41:40

Yeah.

Mark Jones 41:41

For sure. So yeah, I love that. Okay, so the last kind of segment of this, JC, how are we doing on time? Okay, perfect. So this last piece, we're gonna talk about the AF and finance part. Let's do it. As a servant leader, you adopt this mindset, you adopt the traits that go along with it, you uh inherit the the downfalls or negative effects of of you doing that. And sometimes it can be very, very tough from a financial aspect. Is it, and this is for both of you, uh is it uh important for someone that is a servant leader to understand finances to the best of their ability and even better than the next person? Yeah, and the reason being is we're we go through those hardships faster than those that are just producing. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with those that are just producing, but we took on an additional responsibility in doing that. I want to be your leader, I'm gonna do what it takes for you to succeed as long as you want it as bad as I want it for you concept. But there's gonna be times where you're gonna eat and I'm not. Yeah, yes, okay. Is it super important or not as important to be financially literate and understood in what it takes to do that? Does that make sense?

When Deposits Don’t Return: Hard Lessons

SPEAKER_04 43:06

Absolutely. And and I think of this as you're talking about it, I think of this right away with with the franchises that have recently opened with First Choice, you know, and I and I that was the sit-down that I had with First Choice South. Okay. When when they were exploring that idea, and I wanted to make sure they were looking at it in an aspect of y'all are gonna do this because y'all want to help you on your side of town. Don't look at it, and I'm not saying they were looking at the wrong way, of course, but don't look at it so much of how much money opportunity do we have out of this, right? And and I told him, I was like, the money will come. I go, but y'all, y'all are gonna have to understand and be okay and comfortable, get comfortable with understanding your first year, you're not gonna make sure that's right. Yeah, you know, and and and understanding that and sharing with them my stories of what I went through. I'm confident that we've built something to where they're not gonna have to feel the same struggles. You hope. Which leaves me kind of, yeah. I do hope, right? Absolutely. But at the same time, like, y'all are lucky.

Mark Jones 44:05

But at the same time, to that point, and I don't want you to lose your thought, but to that point, in many cases, they almost have to feel that at some point. You can't shield them from it. Yeah. Because then are you truly being a servant leader by no sure? You'll never experience it. So it kind of goes hand in hand of being a good, great servant leader is not only showing the way, but hey, coaching them through that.

SPEAKER_04 44:32

For sure. And I think that's so important because you also have to trust character. Character really gets tested when your feet are put to the fire. Absolutely. Right. It's it's easy to say right now that we want to be or become a servant leader, right? And open a business and and run a business. And I have a vision that I'm going to take care of my people and it's going to be just all gravy, you know? Right. And then when you go through the actual trenches and it's like, holy shit, we had a bad month. Right. Oh, we just had a back-to-back bad month. Oh, we just had a bad quarter. And this has been a tough year. Yes, sir. Do you still hold to those same values? Absolutely. Right. And that's so important because it's not talked about enough. No, it's not. As you know, I remember my first year, first two years at that, you know, with First Choice, where it's like, you have to be able to wear the dad hat and be an amazing dad still. You have to be put on the hat and be an amazing boyfriend. You got to put on the hat and be an amazing leader to your people. You got to put on the hat and say, okay, I got to figure out how I'm going to pay that. That's right. And so, and and all while leaving whatever's going on in your life at the door. Back burner. And, you know, I've shared with a couple of my agents when they ask me, right? You know, I've shared with them some of my struggles that I've had early on with starting first choice and and the personal darkness that I went through, you know, that I didn't open up about. And I was just, I was keeping that at home. But as soon as I walked in the office, I'm like, good morning, everybody. I'm ready to train. I'm happy. I'm excited. Leaving the office, I'm like, oh man, I gotta go home. And now everything's sinking in. And it's just like, so that's where I feel like that true servant leadership also gets tested. Because when you talk about financial literacy, you know, that is important that you understand that how to try to minimize or prevent that from happening to you. But at the same time, if it does happen, how to deal with it, right? Because no one's gonna give a shit, you know, and it's all up to you. And they're gonna praise you or the company or your agents when everything's going great, but then everything everything's going bad, it's all on you. That's right. It's all on you. No one else, it's all on you. Yeah, nobody's coming to save you, dude. So, so yes, absolutely. I and and I think that these two offices that have opened have done an amazing job. You know, they're doing an amazing job. But I wanted to make sure I had that conversation with them on like, hey, I just I want you to understand if you make money from it the first year, great, that's a blessing, right? But don't go into it that first year thinking you are like go into it thinking like it's gonna be a challenge, we're gonna have to make some financial sacrifices, you know, at home with the family, whatever it may be, but it's because it's a better, it's you're building for a bigger cause, a better cause, you know.

Mark Jones 47:10

And so you're you're betting gambling on yourself, you're gambling on those around you. Absolutely. So, Graham, for you, because we're talk on the concept of of financial literacy, servant leadership, and today's market. How how difficult? I'm not gonna say is it possible because I know it's possible. How difficult is it to keep your integrity intact when you yourself still me, you, our income still depends on deals closing.

Money, Sacrifice, And Setting Expectations

SPEAKER_01 47:45

Yep. Does that make sense? Oh, it did trust, it hit home. Uh I I got it the first time. Um I just uh want to struggle back, man. So just really quickly, one congratulations. Thank you. One congratulations. It's uh you did the work, you took every opportunity you had to make a difference, and now you're expanding that reach. And congratulations to so thanks. So if nobody gave you your feather today, I'm gonna give it to you. I appreciate you, bro. Congratulations, bro. Seriously. And so uh, and it gives me hope, yeah, talking about this that my time too will come. Yes, right? My time too will come if I stay faithful, if I stay resilient to the purpose. You know, and I think that it's so so very, very important when we're talking about financial literacy to set expectations, man. So a lot of people, and I think that that's really what you were talking about, yeah. And that's true for me too, as well, is because I was brutally honest with myself when I said I'm gonna do this instead of taking a nine to five job and securing a six-figure salary and living a good life. Yeah, right. That was a choice. You would have hated it. I think so. You'd have hated it. I think so. I think so. I think I'm right where I'm supposed to be. But that's my choices, man. I could secure it, secure the bag, move on with life, and and live a good life, or I can do what I'm called to do. And I chose, I chose the harder path. But part of that is I knew that I was willing to put every dime that I owned. I was willing to sell the car, sell the motorcycle, I was willing to get rid of the ATV, I was willing to take out my my investments, I was willing to cash in the crypto, I was willing to do anything and everything that it's going to take. I was willing to build relationships and partnerships, strategic partnerships that would allow me to get to the point where the vision is secured. Right? So when we're talking about financial literacy, I think it's incumbent upon you, the servant leader, to have candid conversations. How many times have you sat in front of somebody and said, I want they they told you I want to make$400,000? Like, oh, that's cool, man. How much made how much did you make last year? Uh 47. Okay, cool. You know, you made 47. How much did you make the year before that? Whatever the number is. All right, so I believe Mark, I believe you can make$400,000. But let's talk about what$400,000 worth of work looks like. Yeah. Amen. And I start going down the list. I'm talking about break this down to the hour. Yeah. How many hours this week do you need to be doing this specific task? Let alone all the other tasks. Yeah, right. And then when I start building that stuff out, you can see it in their face. And it's not about crushing their spirit, it's actually about uplifting them. Yes. Because you can't being honest. It is. If if if you're gonna be a servant leader, in my personal opinion, if you can't be brutally honest from a space of positive critique, it's not for you. Right, right. But getting building that all the way out, and you can see their face, they're you know, super excited, and the exuberance is there, and then slowly you can see it like sinking in. Holy crap. That's that's what for and we get to the end, and I'm telling you, I work it all the way through. And we get to the end. And I said, if you want to make$400,000, I'm your band. Yeah, I will walk shoulder to shoulder with you. I will show up as many times as you show up. I will never let you walk this path alone. Every time you call, if I don't answer, I'm gonna call you back. Every time you text me, if I don't attest, answer immediately, I'm going to uh text you back. Right? What do you want to do?

SPEAKER_00 51:10

Right.

SPEAKER_01 51:11

And you know what they say? Nine times out of ten. What does a hundred thousand dollars look like? I'm dead serious. I'm dead serious. So when I'm thinking about financial literacy, that's what I'm thinking about. I'm thinking about you can have and be and show up for anything, anything that you want. In real in real estate, the beautiful thing about real estate is if you hustle, if you're true to what you say you're gonna do, if you're authentic in your pursuit and you have character, you can build an empire. Right. You can build an empire. Very true. The difference is though, are you willing to do it or not? Right. So as a sermon leader, I'm responsible for giving you a clear sight picture.

SPEAKER_03 51:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:50

And letting you choose what that target is. And then once you choose that target, shit is on and top and let's go. Let's go. I love it.

Mark Jones 51:56

And I think it's because you said nine times out of ten that happens. And that that is probably a true stat because there's only so many top producers. There's only one reason. When I went through mine 2012 and somebody put that same concept in front of me, I went, okay, let that let's go. That was me. Let's go. That's it, right?

SPEAKER_01 52:18

Well, if I do A, B, and C, what if I do it times two? Can I get 800? Let's go. But it's all the mentality, right? So and it's okay, whatever you are. This is this is one of the things I try to get across the real estate agents too a lot, is it's okay to be okay. It's okay to be exactly where you are, it's okay to set whatever goal you are. Stop comparing. Comparison is a thief of joy. Stop comparison, stop looking across at somebody else's social media and and saying and looking at your you have a car that works, stops and goes when it's supposed to, never, it's dependable, it never breaks down on you. And you're looking at their BMW and you're like, why don't I have a BMW? Well, bro, you you have a vehicle. Yeah, yeah. So people are riding a bicycle right now. That's right. You know what I mean? It's okay to be where you are. What's not okay though, what's not okay is to stop the growth. And you get to decide whether you're sprinting that growth, you're walking that growth, or you're crawling that growth. Just keep moving forward. Yeah.

Mark Jones 53:11

Okay, so I've I've got one more question on this segment, and then I actually have one more segment that I just do. Liz we're rolling. It's customary for where we are in today's world. So, this question before the next segment that we'll get into when, as a servant leader, is it okay to allow or to let the agent fail or to rescue them? Oh, nice. I know that's a tough one. Yeah. And there's many answers for this, and we'll try and keep it short so we can get into this next last topic, because the last one's pretty I have I'll I'll start with that.

SPEAKER_04 53:49

So, you know, I I one of my I would say strengths is that I quickly identify what's in front of me, right? Like the and what I mean by that is the personality, the character, absolutely within my agents. I'm sorry, within my agents.

Mark Jones 54:03

I think we call that Street Smart. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:05

And so I I look at habits, I look at decisions that are made, I look at the their work ethic, overall ethics, right? And and so, you know, I I have this one agent in particular that he came to meet pretty much brand new. He was a brand new agent, was at a different brokerage for like a month, and then he came over and came on board. It's been with us for four years now. And I've watched this agent grow where he was that new, nervous, lacked confidence, quiet, introvert. Till this day he's an introvert, but he's just more comfortable with than that. And I would make the agents do script practices. This is something they hated that I would just put them on the spot and they never knew what kind of trainings we were gonna do back then. So I'd be like, all right, we're going into roleplay. So how do I handle this situation? Neither did I sometimes have to play. But but uh we go into role play, and of course, no one wants to raise their hands. I would pick on him, right? But it's because I saw something in him, and so I would pick on him and stumbling, stuttering, and you know, just could not answer a question as if I was a client, right? And fast forward to this day, which over almost two years now he's been he's increased a lot, but he's my best cold caller. He's our he's got the most listings in the office, you know, because he calls on expireds and FISBOs. And and so seeing his growth, he's still young too. He's uh, I want to say he's 28 now. Okay. And so seeing his growth, seeing him experience what it's like to make money, seeing what him experience what it's like to be that single bachelor, and and I constantly have sit-downs with him to this day, where and I love it because he'll come to me too for advice, you know, not just on work, but on personal. Yeah. And so, which is with a lot of my male agents. They come to me, relatability factor. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:55

And and there's been times him and I have a relationship where I can talk so much shit to him, yeah, right, and humble him. Right. And he receives it. It's one thing to receive it, or you could tell he's checked out. Absolutely. This dude listens and he absorbs everything I have to say to him.

SPEAKER_03 56:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:13

And and and I've had those discussions with him where I'm like, bro, you need to chill out. Like, I know what you're going through right now because I went through that. Right. You know, and and I'm telling you right now, you need to chill out because it's gonna, it's gonna bite you in the air. It did that to me for several years, you know. Like, so chill out because he got cocky and arrogant, and you know, and now he thinks he's the shit. And so excuse my language. But as long as you use it properly, I'm golden. But uh that was proper. But one thing that I love about him, he's he's a man of faith, he runs our our men's Bible study now, and and and not only that, but he just wants to be better. Yeah, so he battles, of course.

Mark Jones 56:50

Right, he battles with his alter ego, and I think that's as you get to a new plateau or a new peak in your career, yeah. That that is before you go backward, you have that bit of I've never been here before. Let me enjoy this view for a moment before I get sucked back down to to go my back to my calling, so to speak.

Brutal Honesty And Goals That Match Work

SPEAKER_04 57:08

So, so when it comes to work questions or or situations he's in with work and then situations he's with in his personal life, there's been times where I'm like, you gotta go through that, bro. Just go through it. Like you got to, you know, like I went through that. Yep. And this is how I went about it, but you got to go through that, you know. And so just to see people like him, and there's many others, but to see people like him where I've seen the growth happen throughout the years in front of my own eyes, and I'm just like, and to not only think like, and I I think I spoke a little too soon to him. I remember telling him, like, I see a lot of me in you, you know, like I see that. And then I've taken it away from him, like, nah, bro, you you're you're not, you're nothing like me. You're not but but but I I I go back to this one conversation I had with him where you know he was going through this little thing where he, you know, he's wal walking around like his shit don't stink and and cocky and arrogant. And I and I had to stop him one day and talk to him, pull him in the office. I'm like, look, bro, I need you to understand outside of this office, you're a nobody. No one knows who you are. You know, I I've created this bubble for our brokerage where yeah, you might look like an all-star in here, but I need you to understand that you still got a shitload of work to do because you're a nobody in this industry. That's right. And my goal is to make you a help make you a somebody. That's right. Yeah. And so, so until you get there, until you're consistently doing five deals a month, you know, until you're doing X, Y, and Z, stop acting like that because you're a nobody. Yeah. You know, and and for him to also take that. I was literally gonna say offended, or that also meant a lot to me because it was like, God, I think it even means more that you, as the servant leader, yeah, understand and know your people well enough that you can have that conversation.

Mark Jones 58:47

Because I can't have that kind of conversation with anybody else, absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:50

And and you're right though. You know what I mean? Anna Sanchez, she's one of my OGs. Yeah, and Anna Sanchez is she's got a name for herself. She's a producer, she travels a lot, you know. She's she I've seen her growth throughout the years as well, you know. And but I can have conversations with Anna in her and I are close friends too, outside of work, because we were close friends before she even came to the brokerage. But I can have conversations with Anna and talk crap to her as a friend and as a leader that I know I can't talk to any other woman in my office, like, you know, and sometimes she shared with them those conversations. I'm like, don't be telling them that because they're gonna think I'm like, don't say that. So you're right. So so identifying your people, their care, their characteristics and their personality, understanding okay, I know that I can get through the to this person with delivering my message this way, but then that person has to be delivered this way, otherwise, that agent's gonna cry. And I've had an agent in our office tell me you made me cry. I thought you didn't like me when I first joined.

SPEAKER_03 59:48

And I'm like, no, I'm just testing you. You know, I love everything.

SPEAKER_01 59:53

Yeah. Rick, what are your thoughts? Man, uh I'll I'm gonna uh share two quick things and then I think we'll we can so I think the the first thing, you know, to to kind of summarize when it's okay to let your team fail or that agent fail, right? I think the first my first response what first came to mind for me was when I realized that I'm their crutch. Yeah. When I'm the crutch, when when I'm my ego, my pride is getting fed into because they keep raising their hands to the point where it's decision paralysis because they need Rick's opinion first. Right. That's when I realize that I gotta let them fly. Yeah, I gotta let them fly, fail, fall, scuff their knee, get back up, dust it off, and move on. Yeah, because I will tell you, outside of you know, you know, compliance and track and your license and stuff like that, most mistakes you're gonna make in real estate we can recover from.

Mark Jones 1:00:44

Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:45

So outside of those things, we're not getting a trek lawsuit or something. When I realize it's okay for them to fail, is when I'm when I'm showing up too much. Yeah, when I when they they can't make the decision without me. So that's one thing. The other one is when they don't listen. Like they they're not raising their hand enough. They they got it already, they know. I don't need to know that. I don't need to know that I don't need to go to the training, I don't need to show up for the the engagements.

Mark Jones 1:01:10

You know, one of my wor what is it the worst? One of the things, pet peeves, when somebody says, I know, then why am I even talking? What what what am I what do you mean you know? My kids, I know.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:24

Then why what am I good for? You see my face, my son said, he said, I know dad. I said, bro, like the whole demeanor switch. I was like, oh whoa. Oh you do, huh? You know something, do you? Sorry. No, no, but to your point though, and it's not from an ego standpoint, it's it's more along the lines of you're not gonna listen. Growth doesn't happen, success won't happen until you get through the painful parts, correct? Right, and sometimes, unfortunately, it is it just it is what it is, you it's gonna hurt, man. And and trying to protect him from every little owie, like my my my son's mom is is a mom, she's she doesn't want anything to happen to her baby, right? And rightly so. That that's her baby, I get it. But as a dad, I'm like, no, no, no, he needs to scuff his knees. Yeah, absolutely. You know what? It's bleeding, yeah. It is bleeding. I'm gonna patch it up, I'm gonna look him in the face and I'm gonna let him know, hey, it hurts, right? What did we learn?

Mark Jones 1:02:26

That's right, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:27

So that's the other side to that coin. So one is when the decision paralysis happens and the agent needs every uh confirmation for every step that they take. Yeah, right. Then I push him out the nest a little bit more and say, hey, you gotta make a decision, come back to me with a result.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:40

So I want to add to that, man, because one thing that I worked on a couple years ago that to get better at is obviously I was the one that they called. Yeah. Whenever there's questions, you get calls, right? And I started realizing, man, sometimes some of the same agents are asking me the same questions over and over when they call me. I'm not doing a disservice to them. Correct. I'm being a disservice to them by just answering that question. That's right. Yep. So I got better at, well, what do you think it is?

Mark Jones 1:03:05

Boom.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:05

Yes.

Mark Jones 1:03:06

My coach at a certain point in time in my career taught me the concept of being able to say no, permission to say no, right? But never tell what you can ask. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:18

That's true. It's true. And and and I think of this one agent that I have right now that that she'll call for almost every little question. And what's funny though, too, is because they they have their relationships with the other two franchise owners, the broker associates in those offices. So we made it a thing where it's like you call any of us. Sure. You know, like any of the agents from any of the offices can call any of us, right? And they don't realize we all still talk about who's calling.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:42

So what are we talking about?

SPEAKER_04 1:03:44

This agent A and agent B. And they're like, yeah, they called me and asked me the same question too. And I'm like, they're calling you and asking the same question. What answer do you give? But that's the same answer. I'm like, why are they testing to see if we're gonna give different answers?

Mark Jones 1:03:54

I don't think they're testing, but they're they're looking for the answer they want. They want.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:58

And so that's a great way to put it. So I had a sit-down with this agent, and and I told her, I was like, look, I've identified, and which is important to do right with our agents, is I've identified you have mentorship and leadership skills that that are being created here that you have potential to continue to create. Yeah, I'd like to make you one of our mentors over the next several months. You know, is that something you'd be open to exploring? Yes, absolutely, right? So, okay, with that being said, I need you to stop calling and asking so many questions. There you go. Because it's not that you're calling and asking these questions, it's the type of questions you're calling to ask. Correct. I feel you should know these by now.

Mark Jones 1:04:38

And it's more of a you already know the answer to this question.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:42

Second guessing.

Mark Jones 1:04:43

Right. You already know the answer to that. You're looking for validation. Yeah, validation every time.

Let Them Fail Or Rescue Them?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:48

So so I told her, I go, with that, because now that we both agree that this is something we want to explore, with that, we are gonna start going down this path the next several months of equipping you to become a mentor, start thinking like a mentor, start thinking that way like a leader. Yeah. So with that, don't call to ask me some of these questions. I want you to try to figure it out. That's it. And if you're not 100% on it on it, then call me and ask me. You know, but I need to know that when you do become that mentor, you're not gonna be calling to ask me questions that they're asking you because that's what you're getting compensated for. That's right. And and I want you to be able to know how to answer those. So yeah, and that's good.

Mark Jones 1:05:24

Okay, so this last segment, it's actually just one question, and then I'm gonna go into our normal that we're doing now, which is the hard reality, Spitfire, just yes, no, what have you. But does technology make being a servant leader easier or does it make us lazier? Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:47

I can't I feel like it could be both. I totally agree with that because it's more accessible, yeah, right. And so, yeah, it's a quick, easy fix of accessibility, but with it being so accessible, there's a lot. Stuff that's just not correct. You know, or or that's not it, and now referring to technology specifically, it's not human. So it doesn't have that that um, I don't want to say emotion tied to it, but the the thoughtfulness, the deep, the deeper, the deeper, exactly. And so so it can be a double-edged sword, man. It can work to your benefit uh in all aspects as a leader, as as to something to equip your agents with, whatever it may be, but it can also be a that clutch, you know, that we talked about. So absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:29

I think you know, I'm not a fan, I'm a fan of technology in my personal life. I was never a fan of technology in my business because I was such a control freak. I'm just calling what it was. I was a control freak, right? So, like I wanted to have control over every aspect, every conversation, everything that's being sent out, every document signed. And it wasn't until I realized that AI technology is nothing different than your email, your CRM, the cat, the calculator that you still use to figure out what your mission is every day, every time you have a transaction, it's simply a tool. Yes, right. So if we're gonna get lazy using a tool, well, you would have already failed. Amen. Right? So technology is not gonna take away from the fact that you still have to show up, you still have to have the conversation, you still have to have the answer, you still have to solve a problem and you have to add value to somebody else's process. And the difference now in our world, my personal opinion, is if AJ's using technology and Rick Ram is still with a pencil and a piece of paper in his typewriter that he has to hit with one finger because he still can't type quite yet. Oh my god, AJ's gonna get to the finish line. Yeah, AJ's gonna be able to add the value. AJ's gonna be solving the problems before I even get to the process of elimination to figure out how to get there. Yeah. So, what I would tell somebody listening to this is if you think that technology is gonna allow you to be able to sit back and go like this, you're sadly mistaken. That's right, right? And as a servant leader, I would be remiss if I didn't say, yo, you got if you want to win, you everybody on my team, I had this conversation this morning. Every single person that's on this call right now said that they want to be successful. You said, and your definitions of success are all different. But you said you wanted to be successful. You said you want to win, you said you want to have an impact, you want to have influence.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:15

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:16

You want to serve people, you want to help people. Well, is it about you or is it about them? Because if it's about them, we're gonna use every tool available to be the first person. Good point. Yes. First, first of the call, first to the the to the client, the the speed to the lead, however you want to put that. We're gonna use every tool available to be that first person to them. Yeah, that solves their problem that adds the value. So that that that's my take on that.

Mark Jones 1:08:42

That's a great dance on that. Truly is. Man, I was gonna add something, but you covered it. I'm like, okay. Yes, sir, urchin. He's an amazing speaker, bro. He's an amazing speaker, absolutely fellas. And and and the idea of and and I'm gonna take both of what you said to say the following. I believe that technology AI will either help that servant leader rise even further, their reach further, or it will quickly out those that are fake in the funk. Yeah, because it'll be obvious type concept. Yeah, I love that, man. So now let's get into rapid fire for this section. And we just started recently adding this to the end of the podcast, makes makes for some good content because you don't necessarily get to explain your answer. You just need your answer. Yeah, we've got one, two, three, four questions. We're gonna run through these real quick. So, what is one lie in the industry that tells us about leadership? Man, I'm already messing up on this one. I didn't say they would be easy. What? What is one lie the industry tells us about leadership? That anybody could be a leader. I was about to say that. What's the second? Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:11

That it's easy.

Mark Jones 1:10:12

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:13

That it's easy. If you do this, this, and this, it's easy to be successful.

Mark Jones 1:10:17

I've seen many leaders say that. And that's a they are wrong. You are correct. 100%. Yep. Number two, what's something you've changed your mind about in the last five years? In regards to leadership. In regards to any of this. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:33

That I'm not as faithful as I thought I was.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:36

Okay, okay. I'll go with to not be so accessible.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:41

Okay.

Mark Jones 1:10:42

Does that make sense? What leadership advice is overrated?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:55

That's a good question.

Mark Jones 1:11:03

If it helps, the lead the next one's super easy. Leadership. Ask the question again so I can hear it. What leadership advice is overrated?

SPEAKER_04 1:11:18

Don't trust someone that hasn't done it themselves. I love that. That's a good one. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:22

Yep. Every dream's not a dream.

Mark Jones 1:11:26

Okay. No need to explain. That's good. I like that. Okay, so here's the last softball. Would you would you no we need a loyal rubble balls, bro? Would you rather have a loyal average agent or a high produced, high producing selfish one? Loyal average for sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:46

Loyal average. Yeah, for sure. They're the ones that carry the torch. They're the ones that you know it's so crazy, man. Let me just add to this really quick. It was a very aha moment, but I think it was also an oh shit moment for a lot of my agents. So every month I do a leadership meeting with just my top producers. These are all my cappers, right? So these are the ones that tend to be the loudest, right? And and we're in our training room and it's about 15 of them and 15, 20 of them. And we're sitting there and we're going through mastermind because I do mastermind for them. So that way they can be in the room with just each other masterminding. But I told them, I go, does anyone know who the poster boy or who is the the reflection of what first choice stands for and who we are?

unknown 1:12:32

Right.

Mark Jones 1:12:32

I think I know the answer.

Stop Being The Crutch: Grow Decision-Making

SPEAKER_04 1:12:33

And and so sure enough, everyone stayed kind of dumbfounded, right? For a little bit. And I and I listed two people that you would have never guessed, right? One of them, she's now in that room, but but two people that you would have never guessed, because they're the quietest, they're the most humble, but they're the most helpful. They're the ones that show up to every event. One of them's gone from doing two deals, three deals a year to now she's one of our top agents, you know. That's amazing. Um, but I I listed those two names. I go, they are the perfect example of what this brand stands for. And I and I go, it's not to shit on any of you to say that y'all aren't valuable here, but I need y'all to understand, as my elite agents, that that is what makes me really happy is to see people like that here running with our our first choice flats. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:19

You know, what's beautiful about that is there's somebody in the room, one of the names you said was sitting in that room now. Yeah. Right. So it's not mutually exclusive. Oh, she cried. Bro, you can be a top producer and be and have the character, and not say anybody doesn't, but be the thing that reflects your business, your team, your leadership, your culture, right? It's not, it's not, you're not limited to a low production that that reflects my value anywhere along that chain. And I love the fact that you have somebody at both ends of that spectrum, yeah, and that somebody showed the pathway forward that we can we can be true, yeah, we can have character, that we can be loyal, yeah, all while making great money. Yes. Yes. Amen.

Mark Jones 1:14:02

Well, gentlemen, this last question is what we're gonna close it out on for each of you, and it gives you an opportunity to tell us how how you really feel about this this last uh one. When your agents talk about you 10 years from now, what do you hope that they say?

SPEAKER_04 1:14:22

He was always there when we needed him. He always put us first, and it was tough. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:31

Those are the most common things I get. I love that, man. Something that I'm getting right now, and something I hope to carry forward for the rest of my life while I'm doing what I'm doing, is when somebody tells me I couldn't have done it without you. Rosemary, older lady, retired veteran husband, tough life, got into real estate, plethora reasons why she should not be successful, never owned a home in her life. She did three and a half years as my mentee in my previous brokerage, and she just recently was able to buy her first home and she called me. I hadn't talked to her in months. She called me on the video chat and she's in tears in front of her new brand home. And she was telling me I wouldn't have been here, I couldn't have done this. We my family could not have got here without you. And everything that you've done for me. And I and I said thank you. And the very next thing I said to them to her was I didn't show up. You did. I didn't have those conversations, you did. I didn't do the calls, you did, be proud of you, be proud of you, and I'm so happy. Yeah, 10 years from now, I pray to God that there's more conversations like that, meaning I did what my business stands for is impact.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:39

Yeah.

Mark Jones 1:15:40

Yep. Amen to that. Gentlemen, I want to thank you both. This was an incredible conversation with some incredible dudes that are uh amazing servant leaders, and it was proven today by way of the experiences that you brought forth through these words that are gonna radiate through Apple Podcast, Spotify, YouTube, all of that good stuff. And and I appreciate you guys being so transparent on that. Absolutely. Thank you. So, for those of you out there listening, servant leadership is intended to be a good thing, a selfless thing. But in a world where you're 100% commissioned, there's a scarcity of transactions going on, competitive environment, many may ask themselves, does it even work? And after listening to this discussion with these two fine men, I'd have to say that this is the example of that working. So if you yourself are seeking a higher calling, a higher power, a higher level of uh selflessness, maybe servant leadership is for you. Maybe you should change your mindset and the rest will follow. But for those of you that aren't, don't call yourself a servant leader if you're not willing to do what it takes to go through that process. And I say that with the utmost respect for those that do, because you can't fake the experiences, you can't fake the adversity you go through, you can't fake the things that we give up throughout the course of this in hopes that it pays off at the end. So, gentlemen, I want to thank you again. Thank you. Fantastic discussion.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:22

Absolutely.

Mark Jones 1:17:23

For those of you out there, we are just under 40,000 subscribers. Really appreciate you guys uh continuing to follow, like, subscribe. Um if you get anything out of these discussions, make sure to share it, like it, all that jazz. But our commitment to you in 2026 is to continue bringing you guests and discussions and topics like this that hopefully take a couple of things and changes your life for you. Um other than that, we will catch you on the next one. Awesome.

Note: Chapter Order Preserved By Topic Shifts

SPEAKER_00 1:17:50

Thank you. Wednesday, get better. If you do that for five years, ten years, fifteen years, how much better will you be? Are you getting better every single day? That's the real question. And it all comes down to taking small steps. You don't have to accomplish everything in one day or even one week, just focus on getting a little better every single day.