Learn How to Build a Great Team | Build the People

In this episode of RealEstateAF, Mark Jones sits down with Blake Butry of Churchill USA for a conversation that goes way deeper than roofing, sales, or business tactics.

This episode is about what really drives great leadership: authenticity, trust, culture, service, failing forward, and having the courage to build people instead of just building revenue.

Blake shares his path from retail, ministry, and door-to-door sales into entrepreneurship, and explains how betting on himself changed everything. Along the way, the conversation dives into what makes someone a strong cultural fit, how to lead with honesty, when grace turns into enabling, and why so many business owners struggle to separate performance from personal investment.

Mark and Blake also unpack topics that hit hard for entrepreneurs and sales professionals alike: fatherlessness, the need for blessing and identity, emotional health, burnout, addiction, vulnerability in leadership, delegation, hiring better people, and why business ownership magnifies both your strengths and your brokenness.

Whether you’re in real estate, mortgage, roofing, sales, or business ownership, this episode is packed with real talk on leadership, growth, and the kind of self-awareness it takes to build something meaningful.

This one is honest, sharp, and full of perspective for anyone trying to grow a team, grow themselves, and grow a business the right way.

03:00 Blake’s background: California, Colorado, Texas
06:00 Early jobs, people skills, and learning to serve
10:20 From ministry to roofing sales
15:00 Why authenticity matters in sales
21:00 Trust, personality, and how people really buy
25:00 Mark’s podcast journey and building confidence
31:00 Proving others wrong vs proving yourself right
36:00 Fatherhood, blessing, and identity
42:00 From salesperson to business builder
49:00 Building Churchill USA and defining company culture
58:00 Hiring, firing, and protecting the locker room
1:07:00 Vulnerability in leadership and hard conversations
1:15:00 Failure, burnout, addiction, and emotional health
1:25:00 The spiral staircase of personal growth
1:32:00 Why leaders need to pause and gain perspective
1:40:00 Delegation, grace, and trusting your team
1:49:00 Hiring for fit, hunger, and relational trust
1:58:00 Rapid fire: leadership, cold plunges, and culture
2:07:00 Blake’s advice for homeowners, Realtors, and business owners
2:11:00 Final thoughts and where to find Churchill USA

Connect with M

Transcript

Get Better Every Day

SPEAKER_00 0:00

At the end of every day, look at yourself in the mirror and ask, did I get better today? Monday, get better. Tuesday, get better. Wednesday, get better. If you do that for five years, ten years, fifteen years, how much better will you be? Are you getting better every single day? That's the real question. And it all comes down to taking small steps. You don't have to accomplish everything in one day or even one week. Just focus on getting a little better every single day.

Mark Jones 0:32

And welcome back to another episode of Real Estate AF, where the AF stands for and finance, and I'm your host, Mark Jones, and we are powered by Lone Bot, Smarter Mortgage Matching, and now available on the App Store and Google Play. And today's discussion is going to be a little different than the normal. I was having a conversation that led to a gentleman that actually helped us out in a scenario with one of our borrowers. And in talking to him, it was like I felt like I was kind of talking to myself, but in a different reality. I don't know. So I asked him, you ever been on a podcast? He said, Yeah, I have. I said, Well, would you like to be on mine? Let's find a way to tie it to real estate. And that being said, without further ado, I'd like to introduce my guest today. It's going to be Blake Buttry. Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

That was good, man.

Mark Jones 1:19

I was doing great. Yeah. I love it. So we we've uh hung out now for what, five minutes?

SPEAKER_02 1:22

That's about it. Let's just jump right into it.

SPEAKER_04 1:24

Yeah.

Meeting Blake And His Backstory

Mark Jones 1:24

So, Blake, to start the show, I want the listeners to know who you are, where you came from, kind of your backstory. What's that about? Where you where are you from, man?

SPEAKER_02 1:34

No, it's awesome. I grew up in a small town called Paradise, Northern California. Okay. It burnt down nine years ago. So tons of movies about it, which is great. Grew up there, moved to Colorado Springs, Colorado, did high school, college, met my wife, all those good things. And then the great Lord brought us to Texas 13 years ago.

Mark Jones 1:52

Gosh, you saw the light.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

I love it. So my uh my dad was actually born in Fort Hood, Kleene, Texas. Okay. So I have Texas roots. So I claim it, right? Yeah. Is he military? OG, yeah. OG. So it's been pretty fun. So I've been enjoying that. Love Bernie, love San Antonio. Just having a blast.

Mark Jones 2:08

Good deal. So in your transition, let's go with the kind of the employment entrepreneurial side of things. You started off your career doing what?

SPEAKER_02 2:21

My first job, I worked with my dad. He was an arborist in Northern California. Okay. Loved it. I've had so many jobs, it's embarrassing. Used to clean tour buses in Northern California that were going to Reno and come back at the end of the night, which is great. First real W-2 job, I worked at Wet Seal clothing store. So, guys out there, if you're looking to meet people, go to a woman's clothing store. It's going to be fantastic.

Mark Jones 2:43

There you go. Make the magic happen.

SPEAKER_02 2:45

I just I figured out I love people and I love serving.

Mark Jones 2:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

And so when you're looking at the DNA of the jobs that I've done, that's kind of the premise of what I enjoy. And so did a lot of retail, worked at Gap, worked at Banana Republic. Love Starbucks. Yeah. Old school Starbucks. They didn't used to have drive-throughs, like it was an actual barista kind of a thing. And I loved it. And then got into serving tables, which was a blast. Okay. And that will play a part into how I got into roofing because for me, once you understand that people are people, yeah. And that your job is to try to see and understand them, have a natural curiosity to figure out who they are and what matters to them, you can really connect in a variety of ways. And so I've done everything. I got worked at Whole Foods and Taylor Loft. I worked at a residential treatment center for violent male teenage offenders rehab with them. I was a security guard at a middle school, like you name it. Yeah, jack of all trades, master of none. I I uh I got married in 2005 and then 2008 hit, and it was just a bunch of peak flips. So people were getting laid off consistently, and it's like, hey, what can I do to take care of my wife and I? I like that. And then from there I got into student ministry, okay, which is a blast. So my first student ministry job was a Korean Methodist church.

Mark Jones 3:53

Right? Yeah. So wait a minute. The last Korean Methodist church that I heard of was a documentary that it ended up being a cult. You know what I'm talking about?

A Career Built On Serving People

SPEAKER_02 4:03

Good people, I have not a clue. Good people, love them. Dr. Song, you're a great guy. Cliff Holland. Awesome. Yeah, and so it was crazy because my wife's Japanese. Okay. So the elder Koreans there, okay, they don't like the Japanese. Japanese did a lot of crazy stuff during the war, apparently. I'm just a naive white guy. Right. I have no idea what's going on. I'm like, this is great. But it turned out to be more Korean than Methodists. So it'd be like bagogee and trout soup. And wow. Found out half my kids didn't even speak English. Wow. That's interesting. So it was like a missions trip in Colorado Springs. Yeah, it was fantastic.

Mark Jones 4:34

That's very cool. So having done all of these different trades, learning, going through the retail side of things, dealing with a lot of customers. What did lead you to roofing?

SPEAKER_02 4:46

Ooh, I was at Oak Hills Church. Okay. And that was the end of God transitioning me out of ministry. And so it's a healthy transition. Love people, love, love bringing impact, right? My my mission vision is how do you be a father to the fatherless? That's kind of the DNA of why I do what I do. Okay. And I realized I just wasn't firing all cylinders and I just wasn't a good fit for them. I was a burnt out leader at the time, fatigued, used to building things. And when you build student ministries 10 years in a row, you get tired. I didn't realize I was tired. And then they were going through a transition season and I was just the wrong hire. Yeah. And so I got released from them and had a couple things going. I won't say them because I still think they're great ideas. Sure. And I want to steward it for later, potentially. Yeah. Yeah. But had a buddy who was like, hey, I'm I'm in roofing sales. Uh, I think you'd be great at it. If you want to be my driver, I'll give you 200 bucks a day. You can come just drive me around. If you want to learn how to be a project manager, we'll give you 50, 60k. Yeah. If you want to figure out how to do door-to-door sales, like it's commission only, go do it. And so for me, it was the first time I decided, hey, how do I bet on myself? Yeah. Grew up great childhood to fourth grade, but parents separated and kind of took on a defensive mindset, right? Hey, how do I make it easier for my family? How do I make it easier for my mom?

SPEAKER_03 5:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

But always felt like I could do more. Never felt like I was getting paid what I was worth, the problems I was solving, that kind of a thing.

SPEAKER_03 6:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:06

And so just decided to bet on myself. And we had three months in the bank to pay off my student loans. And I looked at my beautiful pregnant wife and said, I'm going to take six weeks and see if I can do this. And if not, I got six more weeks to get a paycheck. And failed miserably. It was the most humbling experience I've ever had in my life.

Mark Jones 6:24

And let me ask you this what in your mind at that point was considered failure? Because you said miserably. And then it's like I failed miserably every single day. I believe in failing forward. Amen. Yeah, I totally believe in failing forward. But at that point in time in your life, in your your POV, like the kids say, what was failure?

SPEAKER_02 6:47

Failure for me was I hadn't found my way to do it. Okay. Does that make sense? It does. I have a really hard time selling or communicating about a product I don't believe in.

Mark Jones 6:56

Amen. And anyone that is in sales, I almost want you to say that again because if you are in sales, there's one thing to be a great salesperson, great sales guy, gal, which have you. And then there's the other person that is the shyster, the used car salesman that gives all the salespeople bad names because they don't believe in their product. Yeah. And they're just selling to get a paycheck.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

Yeah, it's it's inward-focused telling, right? Very much. What can I get versus what can I give? Yes. And I learned this about myself when I was at Banana Republic. Uh, hate credit cards, huge Dave Ramsey guy. Okay. Some business guys don't like that. So I'm like, that dude can take a flight home. No, I love him. 80%. Look, if you follow 80% of what he says, I'm okay with the 80% you can run.

Mark Jones 7:43

Just don't listen to anything he has to say regarding housing because if you did, you wouldn't have the equity in the home that you have. This is great. We can debate this later this week.

SPEAKER_02 7:51

I love going blind. But no, but Banana Republic, I was getting written up because I didn't push their corporate credit card. Okay. Right. So you come in, hey, do you want to sign up for a Banana Republic card today? And everyone's like, 15% discount. And so I kept I kept getting write-ups and I was like, all right, I can't push it because I don't believe in it. What can I do? And my mindset shifted is hey, it's not my job to sell it or push it. It's my job to educate whatever they want to do after that is entirely up to them. Yeah. And I went from the worst in the company to being a regional trainer in credit card sales. I was getting 17 to 22 a day. Okay. What was the the what was it? What was the thing? I just gave them the information that I believed in. Okay. And so it wasn't pushy. It's like, hey, let me tell you about, I don't remember it anymore. Sure, sure. I was literally going to ask I maybe you get 50 bucks on your birthday, free shipping here, points here, like da-da-da-da-da. Hey, is it is it worth your value today? And so many people were, oh, that sounds great. And off you go. And so for me, I realized I don't have to push it, but I need to find something that I believe in to communicate about it.

SPEAKER_03 8:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

And when I do that, I become very persuasive. But if I don't do it, I'm I'm just a wreck. And so with door to door, I had to figure out who am I at the door. Okay. Not what my trainer did, not the guy who I modeled. I couldn't be him. I tried to be him, very technical in what he was communicating, articulating. That just wasn't my DNA. Yeah. And so for me, it just came to hey, I believe in getting a photo inspection report serves value to a homeowner regardless of what they do. Okay. And so for me, that became a passion. Yeah. I could care less what you do after this. I firmly believe in having the updated information on your roof system, on your property. And that became the catalyst for me to begin to engage in connection.

Mark Jones 9:24

And that's very smart approach to it by for many reasons. Number one, you're giving them value in regards to just a tangible something. But the other side of the token is when has anyone offered to do something like that for them? Right. So that you set the ground level for if you want to move forward, great. If you don't, no problem. Just know that this is where you're sitting.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

Yep. And even the way you just said it, right? People would sense your authenticity. And that's, I think, the hardest thing in the industry to train is you genuinely have to have joy in serving people. That's right. And so if you find joy in serving, engaging, connecting, if you're naturally curious, right? Curiosity disarms fight or flight. Yeah. If you're just naturally out in the world and love, engaging, and connecting, like people will say yes to that because they sense it. And when they sense that selfishness, or how are you trying to bait and hook me? Right. That's when people freak out. And it's like the only way to do that is be genuine. That's exactly right.

Mark Jones 10:20

And it's like, and and I will add to this because I believe that there is a way to remain genuine and leverage and utilize things like a disc assessment, understanding how personality traits come to light and how you're going to interact with someone, how someone sells how someone wants to buy type concept. Yeah. Um, and that's that's harder to train. All right, realtors. I'm gonna say something that is gonna sting a little bit. Most of you are using AI completely wrong. You're asking it to write captions, you're asking it to rewrite listing descriptions, and you're using it like a slightly smarter intern. But the agents that are quietly winning right now, they're using it for strategy, conversion, and systems.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

For sure. Like to be an expert, Chris Voss talks about this stuff all the time. In order to get an expert to figure out where they fit on a disc test and position yourself, it's way harder than just being genuine. And you can pick up little cues based on how they talk, body language. Are they using very technical vernacular? Do they want it to be black and white? Yeah. Are they just restless, like, all right, get to it?

Mark Jones 11:27

Correct. Right? Now I'm a high C, let's go.

SPEAKER_02 11:30

So you can you can you can figure out how to present differently and read people, but at the end of the day, people buy trust. Yeah. Same in real estate, same with car, like whatever you're doing, you're you're buying trust either of a product, a brand, or an individual. An individual. And it's like just be yourself. Nowadays that's scary. Don't know why.

Mark Jones 11:46

But you know, you're you're you got that on the money. I mean, everybody's in fear of being canceled, just being genuine. And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, we can still be friends at the end of the day. I just want to convey my passion over to you so that at least comes over in a genuine sense. 100%. You know, what's it? We'll pivot for a bit. Yeah, go ahead. Right? How long you been doing your podcast? This will be year four. Matter of fact, we can double check that. That's a good question. I think we're at year four. Amy, if you want to go to the reference real quick, let's see here.

SPEAKER_02 12:18

The journey for you of putting yourself out there. Okay. Like when you go back and watch the fourth year podcast, fourth year. When you go back and watch your podcast, just keep it on us. We're good. Yeah, your podcast from four years ago. Uh-huh. Right. Uh, how have you seen yourself evolve and getting more comfortable in who you are? Has there anything?

Mark Jones 12:35

Immensely 1000% surprised me. Um I can't say that it surprised me, and I'm being honest. And the reason being is I have my entire life done things that most wouldn't do and said was not possible, and you're not capable. And that dot dot I knew that if I stuck with it, and I don't give up easy. I mean, I'm married because I don't give up easy. You know, the the idea behind this podcast was to put me on a national scale in my craft and my trade for what I'm doing. And yeah, at the beginning, dude, we were using cell phone cameras. Every the microphones weren't even real, it was just there for looks. I love it. And as it continued to evolve, I learned how to control a conversation. The ability to be curious, that's that's me. I I want to have conversations. I wouldn't have invited you if I didn't want to know more about you. Yeah, that type concept. But I will say I am surprised that I'm still doing it. I am surprised that people are are are tuning in. I am surprised that I'm able to get people like yourself onto the podcast with just asking.

SPEAKER_03 13:48

Yeah.

Mark Jones 13:48

If that makes sense. Whereas in the beginning, it was I don't know if I should ask them or not.

SPEAKER_02 13:54

How's the conversation to go? Absolutely.

Mark Jones 13:56

I don't worry about that stuff anymore.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

Yeah. Yeah. Where do you think your initial grit came from, right? You said you don't quit, you don't give up easily.

Betting On Yourself In Roofing

Mark Jones 14:03

I was talking about this earlier today because one of my dad's friends stopped by here, wanted to talk to me about getting me on on the TV. And I told him, I said my first real driver was to prove my dad wrong. Really? Until it turned into proving myself right. Yeah. And that's that's god honest truth. It was a constant, I was the person or I was the kid out of the two that was always in trouble. I was the oldest. I was always pushing the boundaries. I was always go, go, go to the next thing. I would spend a lot of money, but I would make a lot of money. And this was before I even knew what money was. And he would always tell me, dude, you're that's that's not sustainable. What you're doing is not sustainable. And I would tell him, I don't need to budget. I need to find a way to make more money.

SPEAKER_02 14:49

Yeah.

Mark Jones 14:50

And that was just my my MO when he we'd have our heart to hearts because my dad, I can't say that we're opposites because I have a lot of his traits in me, but definitely in regards to finances and let's call it entrepreneurial ship, he's an entrepreneur, but he doesn't take the same kind of level of risks that I do.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

Yeah.

Mark Jones 15:12

He doesn't bet on himself as much as I bet on myself. And maybe it's the confidence that he's given me over the year, if that makes any kind of sense you know.

SPEAKER_02 15:27

No, I think you want his blessing, or I see there's a different way. I wanted to make him proud.

Mark Jones 15:33

Yeah, I truly just wanted to make him proud because excuse my language out there, guys. Growing up, every time I turned around, I just felt, man, I'm a fucker. I am, I am, I man, come on, get it together. Like, dude, you've got all this talent, I think, right? Look, you're you're doing this, and then all of a sudden you grow up and you look back and you go, I am so glad I went through all of that crap because I do have the ability to relate to people on a wide spectrum. Just even my background, being black, Mexican, and white, all wrapped in one. I mean, it's like I can have the racist conversation, I can anything, bring it on, you know. I've got rich relatives, I've got super poor relatives, I've got the ghetto side, it all. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

That's a unique blend. That's a good question. So is your dad still alive?

Mark Jones 16:26

Oh heck yeah. Uh they're young. They're and I say young, they're 39, so they're 59 or 20 years apart, 19 years apart.

SPEAKER_02 16:35

So is he is he proud of you, or have you defined what him saying he'd be proud of you would mean?

Mark Jones 16:42

I have zero doubt that he is not only proud of me, but also proud of what I've become, if that makes sense. Yeah. To the point that I see him light up when he's talking about me to his friends. And it was always because we were so close in proximity and age, it it was it was kind of a butt heads until we became best butts. Yeah, if that makes sense. No, that's cool.

SPEAKER_02 17:11

Yeah. Yeah. I'd I'd uh so my dad, my dad passed away senior year high school. Oh and so whenever I I meet people who dads are still alive, sure, like be bold and have the guys' night. Yeah, right? Because you're close in age. Absolutely. So you can go have a cigar and have a whiskey and sit out under the stars and be like, hey dad, can I have can I ask you a real question? Yeah. Like, where are you actually proud of me? What do you what do you see in me? Right? Because I'm I'm in a season right now where a lot of my friends, I realize we're longing for the father's blessing that we never got because they never got it.

SPEAKER_03 17:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:44

And so part of my journey right now is how do we equip men? How do you ask your father for the information so you then have the mantle to begin to pass it on to other people? I like that.

Mark Jones 17:55

Now, I will tell you at this point in time in my life, I just ask. I I don't have to, I don't have to tee anything up. I'm very transparent relationship. We have zero filter, he and I. Matter of fact, I just got the opportunity like three weeks ago to take him to uh the first Spurs game, him and I going together. That's fun, man. And it's just cool. I I I'm well known over there. So going down, all of the the the folks at the top know me at the bottom, and it's like, hey Mark, hey Mark, is that who's that? Your dad? You guys look and he just you can see him going, Holy cow. You've done it. Yeah, that's so fun. You know, it it's a cool feeling. That's so fun. Yeah, and I'm sorry you don't get to to experience that.

SPEAKER_02 18:34

No, yeah, me too. God's God's blessed me with other men in my life who I've been able to receive bits and pieces of that from. Yeah, but like you were saying earlier, it's a it's a part of the story. Amen. Right. And so is there longing and sadness at times? Yes, but I've also learned that it's it's my job to be for others what I long for myself.

Mark Jones 18:52

In addition, I love that, and I can already tell this about you, you don't use that as a crutch or a reason to have an excuse for anything. Whereas today's generation, they're looking for every single reason why they they can't or why they shouldn't, or guys. Yeah, you know, no, 100%. 100%. So let's let's anytime you want a sidebar, I'm gonna be good. I'm rarely ever questioned on the podcast, so I appreciate that. Anytime you got something, bring it up. All right. Tell me your thoughts on it. So now let's let's talk a bit about this transition as you went door to door, because those who typically lead have done. Let's talk about your doing part, the failing forward, the let's call it the level of progression going from an individual salesperson to an individual that's not really working for yourself anymore. You're working for something that's much bigger than you. Yeah, you know, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 20:00

So there's a book called The Slight Edge. The principle of that is compound growth. Okay. Right. So you can look at it at time, you can look at it at failure. For me, my mindset was how do I fail as fast as I can to get further quicker?

SPEAKER_03 20:10

Love that.

SPEAKER_02 20:11

And so the beginning was just I'm a high work ethic guy, high drive. When I get a vision, I want to accomplish it. And I try to figure out how I can push.

SPEAKER_03 20:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

And so it was just getting reps in and figuring out me. And one of my first, my first contract, he was awesome. But for me, that was the aha moment of, hey, this is just serving tables. And the reality of it is I'm just getting paid more because I'm solving a bigger problem. That's very true. And that's kind of my philosophy in life is you get paid for the size of the problem you solve, not for how hard you work. I believe in hard work to get the skill sets and equip yourself, but at the end of the day, how big is the problem that you're solving? And when I was looking at individuals' homes, their investment, their retirement, really where their memories are made. Sure. It's like, no, the the problem you're solving justifies the rate of return that you're getting from it.

SPEAKER_03 20:54

Most definitely.

SPEAKER_02 20:54

And so, yeah, started uh started with the company. They're out of Dallas, loved them, good people. Was supposed to meet with one of the owners yesterday. He was actually up in comfort randomly. Okay, hey, dude, let's hang out. And he got he got stuck on an apartment deal. He's like, I'm sorry, man, I can't do it. Awesome guy. And then from there, connected with the local company in Bernie. And again, good people. But what I found is the game I was playing was a little bit different. Fully believe in treating the individual first, not the product first. And so, how do we bring in high-scale customer service or white glove experience to the trades?

SPEAKER_03 21:26

Yeah.

Authentic Sales And Building Trust

SPEAKER_02 21:26

Right. At the end of the day, it's a it's a major construction project. Most trades guys are just trades guys. Here's where I'm gonna do the thing. And I wasn't getting the level of customer service that I wanted per se. And again, not bad. It just wasn't the right thing. Well, it's not what you envisioned as what you wanted it to be. Yeah. And so it was kind of another bet on yourself moment. Yeah. And it's like, do I do it? Do I not do it? And spiritually, I was I was praying through it. I was actually pressure washing my fence and just pondering, like, hey, Lord, is this the next thing you want me to do? And I just got done listening to the Hobby Lobby president or founder's book. And he talked this, uh talked about this idea of the tree isn't his, i.e., hobby lobby isn't his, but because he's stewarding it, he gets to eat from the blessing of the fruit. And so that was the beginning vision of like, okay, Lord, this is yours. What do you want to do with it? Right. I will fail, right? I I strive, I push too hard. I'll be your steward. Absolutely. He's teaching me how to walk at his pace. Yeah. Which I'm so bad at. I am I like, I want to push and get stuff done, and I fail miserably. And that was the beginning of, hey, is is there a different way to do it? And so had two or three friends like, hey, I'm doing this. Do you want to do it? We would do, you know, sales training. Sure, sure. Maybe kind of not really in my office. What you thought it was. And I'm like, hey, let's just kind of go do this thing and stumble forward. And then uh Danny, who we were talking about earlier from CrossFit, um, he was transitioning out of a church as well. And he just has a beautiful ops brain. He's a linear processor. Okay. So his gift is being able to take my chaos, yeah, my spider web of thoughts, and make a linear plan from it. So he's your human GPT. I love this guy. He's amazing. And that was the beginning of really saying, hey, how do we actually grow a company?

Mark Jones 23:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:06

Uh, not just a business, not just a solopreneur, but how do we actually build a company? And to be honest, I've hated it at times. I would have made way more money just selling by myself. And I would have had so much time. And, you know, my wife always listened to it. So, so, so it's the same in your industry. Yes. Yes. And it's it's it's a good, it's a good tension point. Yeah. Right. Between being selfish in a healthy way and wanting to provide for your family and having the time and opportunity to say yes to the things that you're passionate about. Yeah. And then the tension of, well, if I do it just by myself, I'm not going to have the ability to impact other people I believe in and love.

SPEAKER_03 23:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

So that was kind of the tension of, hey, how do we do this? How do we not do this? And so Danny came in. I already had a young lady named Emily, who's our project concierge. She was gold. I love telling the story how I met her. She is, I always got to be cautious. But she met her in a small group prayer group. She looks nothing like what I thought I would need on my team.

Mark Jones 24:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

And I knew her as a friend and in a prayer circle, and like, hey, and she put on a little request, like, hey, I need someone to teach me QuickBooks. And she was like, hey, I may know someone. And three weeks later, she was like, Hey, I think I want to do it. It's me. And I'm like, you're you're sweet. I love you. Like, I don't see it at all. I knew nothing about her background or anything. And so texted her, got her phone number from her husband, and texted her. I'm like, hey, I'd love to connect this week. She's like, Who is this? And I'm like, you know me. I mean, when you called me, the first thing I said was like, Hey, my lawyer's gonna call you for cops and infringement. You had me on my toes. I was like, just messing. And so I was like, hey, I'll give you three guesses. And what I love is about three minutes later, she texted me. She's like, Hey, Blake, how are you? Now, what I love about that is ownership, personal responsibility is something that I look for to believe in in people. I'm very optimistic, right? Former pastor. I see the best. I see what's possible in people. Sure. And my downfall is I see it before they do often. Yeah. And so if they don't have that natural hunger, that natural drive, Patrick Lincioni, hung, humble, hungry, smart. Okay. But if they don't have that hunger to go 10% more, if they don't see it in themselves, I tend to pull too long. Pull it out. I wait. Ah. And I get I've been in. But now because I see it in, I'm like, how do I get you to do it?

Mark Jones 25:15

But you can't want it more than they. I know, but that's my downfall. I do.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

Like I get really excited. And so when she sent that text, for me, the beauty was I was like, she just proves everything. She will be a problem solver. She's gonna figure out, she's gonna run. And so she was on our team already. Danny came in, and that's when we really began to formalize like, hey, how do we do this thing? How do we grow it? What does it look like? We got into branding. What's the avatar of our ideal client? What's her voice? What's our DNA? Yeah. And how do we grow? And so the truth is, as money is a magnifier, right, of an individual. So anything with sales, roofing's known as that's crazy.

Mark Jones 25:49

I believe the same exact thing.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

100% right. Money's in a magnifying. And so when you meet roofing guys in sales, they can make a quarter of a million, 400,000. And if their heart isn't pure, if they don't have the DNA in their own lives, you get the atypical story, right? So they're doing cocaine, they're hooking up with strippers, they're getting divorced, they're burning out, their only identity is defined in how much they make. They don't know about taxes. That's right.

Mark Jones 26:11

Right. And most of them, that is the first time they've even gotten close to making money like that.

SPEAKER_02 26:15

Yeah. No one told them, like, hey, 1099, you need your own separate taxes. You need a check-in account, a save account, and you put your 25% just in case in here. And then, yeah. And so, like, for me, it's like I'm a curse. If I don't train our guys on these things, I'm a curse into their life. Okay. I'm gonna make it worse.

Mark Jones 26:31

And so for us, it was really Is that because you believe you're in an enabler because you're so optimistic? I can definitely see that in myself.

SPEAKER_02 26:38

I don't know if it's enabling, it's just I I've I know the other side of the story. Okay. And so for me, we really began to get in and say, hey, how do we holistically invest in people on our team so that they're set up for life change? Okay. That's kind of the DNA.

SPEAKER_03 26:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:53

And so we had to release a guy two weeks ago, three weeks ago from a cultural fit. And he said something in a negative, but I actually I take it more as a positive now. He was like, I voted for Biden. I'm kidding, I'm loving the guy. He he uh super hard worker, yeah, right. So he had drive, had ambition, problem solver, phenomenal with customers, right? But wasn't really a team player. You know what I mean? And so culturally it wasn't a fit. And I love the movie Moneyball with Billy Bean. Amen. And it's like, yeah, hey, how do you protect the locker room? What is getting on base and how do you protect the locker room? And so I realized he came to me and he's like, you know, I don't need a father figure, and I know that's what you want to do with these people. And I'm like, it's not that I want to be a father figure and it's not about me, but I want to make you the best version that you can be. How do I walk alongside you?

SPEAKER_03 27:38

Right.

SPEAKER_02 27:38

And so that's kind of been our journey, right? We're all pastors. Absolutely. And so three years ago, Danny's getting his doctorate in contextual theology. Wow. He graduates this July. That's awesome. I got super emotional when he told me he was like he was going through and I'm like, dude, I'm so proud of you. Wow, that's awesome. Okay. But our our theory is how do you do discipleship better in a business than in a church? Right. And when you look at the fatherlessness, I got a sociology degree. That's my background, was studying long-term impact of fatherlessness. Okay. And it's like we're we're going on fourth generation of divorce in America. All the skill sets that would have been taught aren't being taught. And so, how do we come alongside and speak life into these key areas to help them re-equip and grow? Absolutely. And so, yeah, that's wow, that's the story of Churchill.

Mark Jones 28:24

That's pretty cool. And and and let me ask you, on in regards to let's say that one employee at what point did you realize number one, that he was not a good cultural fit, and number two, that you were gonna do something about it. Does that make sense? No, it totally does. And and this guy's can be applied to any business, any industry. This is a cultural, this is a how do I how else do I say it? It's pretty tough to uh cohabitate to synergize with someone that is gonna constantly go against the grain with what your overall message, overall theme, overall culture is.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

Yeah. Yeah. I kind of look at again parenting, right? I think you can take any parenting book and reverse engineer it into a business book. And so our kids get punished for being defiant or disrespectful. That's completely different than them growing and learning and understanding what things are. Sure.

Mark Jones 29:23

Does that make sense? It sure does, actually. Your kid can because you're doing the very best job of trying to help them avoid the landmines that you've already stepped on in life, but yet on their side, they're going, You're always just on my butt. Like, come on.

SPEAKER_02 29:39

Well, there's a difference between talking back to mom in that tone or that voice that's defiant versus being an atypical little kid who's super curious and asks a ton of questions. I totally agree with that. So it can be the exact same thing, but the the heart motive or the tonality is slightly different. Right. You gotta learn to catch this. And with this guy, growing, right, transitioning life, hardship going on, but constantly coachable, constantly teachable. Nothing was outside of the guardrails, like kind of annoying at time. You know what I mean? As an owner, like everything's annoying as an owner, right? You gotta everything, everything. Because every everything flows upward to you. And so it's like, hey, how do you come alongside and and guide and coach and encourage? And for him, he was in the guardrails. There was still coachability, humility. There was true, I don't want to use the word repentance, but sympathy, empathy. Like he would come back and see where you made mistakes. And then he just crossed a couple subtle lines with passive comments on team threads that didn't make any sense. Yeah, you know what I mean?

Mark Jones 30:35

Yes, and it's like it's one thing to do it individually in time and a place. It's different thing to now do the same thing that we know you're capable of doing that we are not really in agreement on in front of everybody.

SPEAKER_02 30:49

Yeah, and there's there was some grace because again, he had some some medical stuff that was going on. And so he he was kind of, I don't want to say what he wasn't bipolar in any ways, but he had highs and lows. Okay, and so there's empathy as I began to see his cycle to understand hey, here's where's grace, here's what the next 48 hours are gonna look like, and then we're fine. And it worked, but this this one time, two days in a row, is just off the thread. And maybe he was looking for a way out. No, he I basically he's like, I don't know if I'm a right fit. I agree. There you go. And in the times past, I've I talked him back because I could tell he wasn't in a healthy spot. He was he was stressed alone, he was a runner, yeah, right. So, hey, I'm gonna blow it up because I'm stuck or frozen and scared, and had no problem being like, hey, dude, you're fine. Let's run through this. It's very pragmatic. And this time it was just outside of those lines. Yeah. So when he said the thing, I was like, I completely agree. Yeah, I mean meet up and have some coffee.

Mark Jones 31:41

As as a as an owner, uh business owner, leader, mentor, it is tough to deal with the different personalities, all while trying to deliver the same message, same theme that you want your business to run off of. That is essentially the oil that fuels the whole engine, is the vibe, is is the culture and it in it in essence, right?

SPEAKER_02 32:05

Yeah. And it's it's like as you grow in an organization, you're in a different spot in every season. And so I have no problem going to my team and often saying, I've never been here before.

SPEAKER_03 32:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:14

Here's what I think it is, or here's the new level of clarity that I have, and continuing to evolve forward. And so anybody who's worked with me up to this point, like I will tell them, hey, I'm still a rookie. Yes. I've probably made a ton of mistakes. I've probably offended people, hurt their hearts, broken relationships. But genuinely, I did the best I could with the information ahead of the time. Absolutely. And as long as my team members know that I genuinely cared about them, and maybe you failed and maybe you messed up, like I'm okay.

Mark Jones 32:41

I'm I'm a rookie too. And and some of the best business owners that I have met in my life, acquaintances, et cetera, the best ones are still students to the game that they participate in. They are constantly learning, they are constantly failing forward, they are trying new things, they are trying to adopt new ways of going about things and failing and learning. I think that's the overall you can learn from other people, you can learn from conversations, or you can learn from action. And in many cases, the ones that I come in contact with have that similar trait in mind is we are students of the game. I don't claim to know everything.

SPEAKER_02 33:22

It's it's not it's not about knowing everything, but it's about being able to pause and realize you're still learning. And it's the people who think they know everything. And again, you just said this, but it's they just don't see anything anymore. Yeah. And so I think the the blessing and the curse of being a genuine leader is you always evaluate yourself first. Yeah. So if anything's broken in my company or if someone leaves or transitions, I'm always like, what did I do wrong? Did I did I train you well enough? Did I give you enough relational time? Did I give you enough personal time? Was there clarity and expectations? Sure. And it's like, I mean, that's you're you're beating yourself up nonstop. That's right. But I think that shows the heart of someone who's genuinely invested in the team. Yeah. And so that's the only saving grace I have when I've made mistakes and people have left. It's like, do I suck? What do I need to do?

Mark Jones 34:08

Right, right, right. And hopefully you've got somebody good on your side that says, dude, you're good. It wasn't you, it was them. You know?

SPEAKER_02 34:15

But then you can get into confirmation bias. True. And so it's like, are you just saying that to make us all feel good? You know what I mean? Like, that's tough. And so I I just I just think a humble leader always evaluates and figures out, hey, what could I have done differently? And like, okay, hey, I'm gonna, this is my loss. This is what I need to chalk up in this season. And it sucks and it's sad, and it's like, oh, I genuinely cared for that person and wanted them to succeed. And I don't know if I blew it, I don't know if they blew it, but like I'm sad it's transitioning. Yeah, you know what I mean?

Mark Jones 34:43

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 34:44

And that's my uh my counselor, she's funny, she's a riot, right? We do marriage counseling. Okay, and I love it. And she was talking about hey, like, you got to run your business as a business, and you can't really invest in and disciple with people. And I'm like, I kind of agree with you, and I kind of don't. Yeah, you know what I mean? Absolutely. But basically, what she was saying is you got to keep professional, professional, correct, and separation between the two. And it's a tough thing for me as well, isn't it? Absolutely. We uh we have personal and professional hats. Yes. And so I'll genuinely like, hey, I'm gonna put my personal hat on as your friend right now and slide sideways. And that's actually a conversation to use and be like, okay, now I'm gonna go back into whatever hat I am on the white chart at this time.

Mark Jones 35:21

See, and you have the ability to do that, I have the ability to sometimes do that. It's tough when we are doing that with an individual that cannot separate those.

SPEAKER_02 35:33

Yeah, I think that's what shot me in the foot a few times in the past. Because I I like being a vulnerable leader. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's risky, it's scary, it invites the right people in long term. But now I'm learning, ooh, do I do the people around me really have the maturity to do that with me? That is a great way to put that. I don't know. Some I'm looking back, I'm like, ooh, I I may have been too vulnerable with some of the stuff. And that actually set me and the company up in a negative way, or the relationship with the individual in a negative way. And so I don't know. So, Blake, how how long have you been in business, Churchill? Churchill, we really I mean, I got started in door to door, 16, 17, right? You could say we've been in business since then because the S29 was set up, but not really. Really, I look at it back in 2020. Okay, okay, and that's great pivot, by the way, bro. That was smooth. You know, that was smooth. Good shot. I'll sidebar you this. So there's some good transitions, and uh you're dropping, you're dropping Henson really well. So I'm impressed. This is awesome.

Mark Jones 36:27

So the the idea behind your business and how I want to tie this to everything that we do is talking about the failures and the wins. In the last six years, I'm sure you've gone through some major failures and some major wins. What do those look like in the roofing industry from a leader that leads like you do? Man, this is fun.

SPEAKER_02 36:53

Failures. You didn't come to get no softball. No, this is great. I I think as as we were talking about how money magnifies brokenness and strengths in people, I think being an entrepreneur and a business owner does the same thing. Okay. And so for me, my personal failures, I think, were magnified the first three, probably two years in in sales and then the first two years in business.

SPEAKER_03 37:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 37:16

And I think spiritually, God was just cleaning me up. And if I'm a broken leader and he blesses a business or blesses a team, it's gonna magnify that brokenness in everyone.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

It's wow.

Grit And The Need For Approval

SPEAKER_02 37:26

And so, like I went through all my all my insecurities, everything. My my wife and my ops guy, Danny, used to do my quarterly reviews. Okay. So imagine I don't know if your wife sits in on your quarterly reviews. She does not. No. If you have anyone doing a quarterly review with you, but I didn't want to hide anymore. And because I'm in sales and because I'm good with people and quick on my feet, I can kind of talk my way through things and feel good. And I was in a season of pure humility, but I had two people that I loved and trusted, yeah, being able to speak life into me. And so quickly realized, and I knew it about myself, I'm an escapist. And so really began to drink too much, really began to watch Netflix because I was trying to figure out, hey, how do I turn my brain off? Yeah, I don't know how to handle this. I think I'm doing well, I'm not doing well, and I would try to escape. Yeah. And so that created a huge negative loop. I'm sure I'm ADHD. I've never been tested. I don't want to know, like, hey, let's just have fun. But you are. But begin to realize it takes one to know what it is.

Mark Jones 38:21

That's fantastic. Yep. It's our superpower, right? Yeah. I have an episode. Yes, absolutely. Called ADD is our superpower. It is.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

But I began to also figure out I have a pretty addictive personality type, but that can be positive and negative. It's true. I've known that known that in a long way. And so I can drink old fashions, watch Netflix, or I can take a hot bath and read a book. I know it sounds dumb, but it's pretty good. Like, hey, not at all. And then I began to try to figure out hey, how do I actually find rest? What is refreshing? What does that look like? How do I how do I decompress? What does my body need in order to get neutral? And so went through, again, three, four years of just falling apart, God revealing all my brokenness, all my insecurity, everything, and grinding it out. Right. So jumped into counseling because I didn't have words for emotion. Okay. I had like three words for all my emotions and they were angry, sad. And they weren't accurate, they weren't accurate. That was the problem. Is I was trying to articulate and communicate what I was feeling and what I was thinking, but they were the wrong words. So it was sending the wrong message. Yeah. And so it's like I got one of those little org charts, those little picture charts that you give your kids. Absolutely. I got three of them, one for me and two for my kids. And I'm like, all right, let's do it together. What emotion am I feeling right now? Because this is wrong. You know what I mean? Yeah. But that was the humility of pausing. And so when I look at failures, again, fail forward. It was sitting long enough and allowing God to reveal all the stuff. Yeah. And then having the right people in your corner to both speak truth and affirm it, but also guide you and encourage you through it. And one of the best things Danny ever said to me was beautiful and he knows it. I was year two, year three in the counseling. Like, dude, I'm I feel like I'm in the exact same spot. Like, same challenges, same problems. And that's something spiritually God does. He'll he'll give you a test and then he'll I view it as cliff diving. Cliff diving. Okay. Like, hey, your kids, hey, jump off the side of the pool. Yes. Great, go five feet higher. Great, 10 feet higher, 25 higher. It's the same challenge. Yeah. And that's the beauty that I've learned spiritually with God these last few years is like everything we struggled with as kids and young men, we're gonna continue to struggle with. It's just a little bit higher, but it's the exact same problem. That's right. And where you see his faith and identity in those things, it gives you the courage to both risk and bet on yourself. Yeah. When he's calling you into the greater thing, Moses stepping in, right? Amen. Yeah. Raise your rod. Okay, step into the water. Not it was harder and harder every time, but it was the same request. That's right. And so for me, Danny was looking at me, he's like, You're not in the same spot, but you're in a spiral staircase working your way up. And it was just enough truth that I needed in that moment to be like, okay, no, I have grown, I have changed. There just wasn't enough time to bring distinguishment from where I was to where I am. Makes sense. And so this past year has been God's beauty of taking me through a lot of the same circumstances, but showing where he's revealed and changed me in those areas. Okay. And so I think that's the biggest thing.

Mark Jones 41:11

Wow. Which is beautiful. And that's huge. It's huge. I mean, it really is it because it it it now not necessarily forms your DNA of what you wanted, but it reveals that DNA to you so that you can fully embody that.

SPEAKER_02 41:26

Yeah, it's it's cool to see where you're healthy, right? It's like people who have a broken leg and they're in a cast and get it off and you don't trust it. Yeah. And you don't know is it is it just I wouldn't know. I've never broken a bone. The x-rays are good. You know what I mean? It's like, I think I'm fine. And then you like slowly limp into it, and there's there's there's beauty about time. Yeah, you know, spiritually, even in the Bible, like God rested and looked back. There's separation that allows for a distinction between what was and what is. And oftentimes we as business owners, we don't pause. Right. We don't pause and figure out, like, hey, how far have I gone?

Mark Jones 41:58

That's very true. Matter of fact, Amy just told me what was that? I don't know, an hour ago. You need to take this weekend off. You need to just chill. Let's go, Amy. I uh wholeheartedly agree with you. My response to her was like, What? No. You know what?

SPEAKER_02 42:12

One of the one of the the blessings that my wife and Danny gave me, which was great, is they have forced me to leave once a quarter.

Mark Jones 42:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 42:22

Turn off, go somewhere. It could be going to Vancouver to hang out with Breakthrough Academy and meeting their guys and just living life. It could be I went to my hometown on my 40th birthday that burnt down and like went to all my childhood places. But just that alone time, that solitude allows me to come back and appreciate everything that's going on.

Mark Jones 42:40

In addition, I think, and I agree with that, I think that it also provides you the perspective that you need at that time. There's levels to what we go through that anybody go through. But like you said, many times we don't we either don't know or we totally forget to take a step back and look at everything from a bird's eye view. Yeah, and then appreciate how far you've come. Yeah, you know? Yeah, the pause is beautiful. So why don't why don't you pause? I do pause. It's just I will tell you that I paused in a different way. Matter of fact, I've got too pulled into one project over all the others to the detriment of the others. So now I'm playing catch up the other way. And until I'm done doing that, then I will pause. Shiny object syndrome, time management syndrome. Not necessarily. Uh we launched a mobile app, developed and launched a mobile app, and all the while I've got a branch full of loan officers, operations team that the industry's tough right now. And I was the main driver of the production. So if I take a step back and say, hey guys, y'all keep going. I'm here to help, but I've got to go sell this thing that I just poured hundreds of thousands of dollars into. And on the faith that it'll just keep running, I didn't build it that way. You didn't build the system. You know, I didn't build it that way, unfortunately. And then you find out and you go, Well, it's not too late. Let's go back and do it again.

SPEAKER_02 44:13

There's again parenting kids, right? When you leave them alone, you see who they really are.

Mark Jones 44:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:18

Same thing with your business, your team members, your organization. When when you step out and they have to solve the problem, it gives them the opportunity to affirm in and believe that they have what it takes. Right. And so you're kind of the cap. Absolutely. Now the challenge is how do you not come in as a high drive guy and just fix the shit? Right. Always. And hey, let's go and be the hero and be the savior versus doing the slow thing of framing for them, hey, here's your own money. I need you to track where you feel insecure. Where do you feel like you need more training? Right. I need you a Dave Ramsey, right? One three one. Yeah. What's the one problem? What are the three solutions? And which one would you pick and why? Right. Like it's it's beautiful because what you're doing is saying, no, I see great potential in you. Correct. Like I hired you not for where you are, but where you're going to be. My job as your leader, as your manager, is to help you get equipped and get to that seat. Yeah. Which means you're going to make mistakes. Now, for me, it's the ownership piece. Yeah. I don't care how many mistakes you make, as long as you're trying to do the best you could and your thought process is correct. We are so similar. But it's freaking hard to do.

Mark Jones 45:22

It is very difficult with the patient side of things. But more importantly, I think the the faith that you give that grace, you give that grace, you give that grace. And there are few individuals that you and tend to take under your wing when you give the grace, you give the grace, you give the grace, and you go, dude, you're you're really not trying to fix what I've given grace on. Yeah. To a certain point. Yeah. And then there's others that are terrified to fail, but you've assured them that, hey, it's okay. You I don't care if you mess up. There are everything is figure outable, everything is fixable. Yeah. There's nothing that's the world's gonna stop for. As long as you're moving at a fast pace and you're wanting to learn where you messed up, no problem. Yeah, it didn't bother me. No, it's great. I love it. Why? Because I've failed way more times than you. Bigger, I promised.

SPEAKER_02 46:16

So, how how do you know?

unknown 46:18

Right?

SPEAKER_02 46:18

Because you decided you give grace consistently to people. Absolutely. So when you're in your hiring process, recruiting, again, I don't know how many companies you see. Sure, sure, sure. You don't even like, hey, when you're sitting there trying to figure out hey, who who's worth investing in, who's worth grace without being taken advantage of? Sure. Like, what are your filters that you're looking for with people you're trying to recruit, pull in, help their dreams come true?

Mark Jones 46:39

The first thing that I look for is the ability for that person to see through the let's call it me being so direct. I am a very direct person. I don't uh very high C. I don't have time to tell you the story of how that got there and do all the details of this and this. I'm gonna tell you A to B, C, D, E, no, in between. And it's difficult to find that in people. So I tend to hire people that I already know that can put up with me, yeah, and I can put up with them, and then we can grow together. That's not always worked out the best, but that's the best way I've learned how to avoid somebody down the road going, gosh, you you're you're you're too direct. Well, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 47:28

So I hear you saying that you like having relational capital and trust with the people you pull in so that they know that it's a professional, accountable conversation and not you being an a-hole.

Mark Jones 47:40

Correct. Is that kind of it? That's 1,000, that's pretty accurate. Amy, can you attest? That's okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 47:47

That's big smile. But that the challenge is that limits the number of people you can recruit in. 1,000% it does. And maybe that's not a bad thing.

unknown 47:55

Good.

SPEAKER_02 47:56

I mean, potentially. I don't know what your dreams and ambitions are. Yeah. Because then the flip side is how do you take that high capacity, uh, new recruit, not turn your business brain on. Right. The go, go, go. Yep. Right? Because I love, I love building. Sure. Like, hey, let's go build something together. Let's go have fun. Like, I don't need to talk to you about your life and your family. We will. I'll get to that at the end. Right. But I'd much rather like accomplish something together. Amen. And this is fun. I like that too. And so what I'm trying to learn, right? We're trying to recruit sales manager and sales guys right now. I've learned I have to meet with them before we start anything so that they're just guys.

SPEAKER_03 48:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 48:30

Just people I can engage and connect with and learn about life and then start the job piece. Otherwise, I just want to run and they want to be seen and connected and have the relational stuff, which is beautiful and valuable, but to me, that's secondary, right? There's a book, uh, five gears, and it talks about the different level of relationships up shift. I always start in third gear. Let's go.

SPEAKER_00 48:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:49

I don't want coffee, chit chat to start. No, like that's not. I want to come in and like, hey, let's go. And if I'm feeling goofy, like, hey, we could talk about memes and stuff that came through. But if I'm in go mode, let's go.

Mark Jones 49:00

That's actually a very solid comparison to the way that I operate, just articulated better, to be honest. I'm here for you because I don't think that's why I always say this is great therapy. The idea behind what you're talking about is skipping the the the fluff. I I don't, I don't not necessarily have time, I don't have time for the fluff at this point in time in my career. Yes, I will hire new to the business, let's say loan officer, but I don't have the time to hold your hand throughout the process. And I'll tell you that day one. If you're somebody that's gonna constantly ask questions, I'm all for it. But if you're gonna sit there in your corner and think I'm gonna come to you, I've got shit to do. Yeah. Yeah. And you can be part of that stuff, but I'm not gonna chase you. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 49:47

Do you do you consider, and this may be putting you on blast. I don't know if you want to edit out later. Let's go.

Mark Jones 49:53

I don't edit nothing. Do you feel like you have a best friend? Do you feel like you have a best friend at work? Do I feel like I have a best friend at work? Uh-huh. I feel like I have multiple.

SPEAKER_02 50:03

Okay. Yeah. So there's a book.

Mark Jones 50:05

And it and it has taken years to get to know.

SPEAKER_02 50:07

No, that's it's beautiful, right? It's it's the number one indicator on how long someone will stay in an organization is do they have a best friend at work or not? And so to our detriment, if our team members don't feel like they have a best friend, they won't stay as long. And so, as much as we want to get stuff done, we still have to pause and see the people and say, do we find joy in doing life together? Right. You know what I mean? And it's like I can definitely see that. It's so hard for me.

Mark Jones 50:31

I'm like Because then they're they're just going through the motions of whatever their job is instead of actually focusing on what we're building together.

SPEAKER_02 50:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:39

And it's it's right, we were talking CrossFit, right? 400%, 400% greater affairs happen in CrossFit than any other gyms. And the reason is is because there's teamwork going on at the time. Yeah. Most affairs happen in offices because there's two individuals working on a goal together. Right. And so there's a beauty about having a you find united goal, both professionally but also personally. Right. How's your family? What's going on? Tell me about your kids. Right. Like, how do we grow and get better? That allows the DNA of the organization, Billy Bean, the culture of the locker room to exchange. Yeah. That's and so it's it's tough. Like, it's tough for me because I just want to go. But at the same time, I love like the deep chats.

Mark Jones 51:19

You know what I mean? I'm with you. I'm with you on that. Uh man, that's pretty good. How are we doing on time, Amy? I feel like we're at like 40, 45 minutes. Woo! Already?

SPEAKER_02 51:27

Just like let's keep going, bro. Just like that.

Mark Jones 51:30

Let me see what I have on the agenda. I want to talk about what do we want to talk about? Leadership, uh, philanthropy. We got that. Culture versus performance. We already nailed that. Hiring and firing and standard. We nailed that. I haven't looked at this once, by the way. It's great. I didn't look at it either. Trust and delegation. We talked about that. You got a great smile, by the way. Thank you. I paid some good money for these. Let's see here. Okay, there's some questions that we can jump into. Is number one, is people first? And this is not even the rapid fire section. I have a rapid fire section. End of every podcast, totally plan for a plan for these. And that's the beauty of them. So here it is. And this is not the rapid fire, but is people first something just avoiding hard someone? Excuse me, starting back, is people first sometimes just avoiding hard conversations?

SPEAKER_02 52:23

Not at all. Uh Brene Brown talks about how unclear is unkind.

SPEAKER_03 52:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 52:28

And so people first means I see you as an individual, right? I love and care enough about you. I've set up clarity within organizational A and D's expectations, everything you said. Yeah. Right. I'm telling you, you know what I'm hiring? Very similar, but you articulate a little bit better. I've articulated, yeah. I've I've communicated to you. You went to college. I did. I got my education. It's great. No, it's it's this idea of was I clear on the front end, both with what the job description was, what I was looking for in an individual, what done looks like. Right. Right. And then if so, you're allowed to do both. And so I don't know. I don't most people don't want to just do a job, right? They want to be a part of something. Absolutely. And so seeing them as a person first means I care enough about you when I'm interviewing you in to see are you going to thrive in this environment? Yes or no. So now sidebar calls. That's really right.

Mark Jones 53:14

Like because you mentioned that. I believe the same as you that people want to be a part of something. They want to be a part of something that's successful. Even I'll take it in a step further. In that initial hiring process, in that everyday going about our job duties, is it difficult for you to, let's say, hone in on the individual that doesn't feel a part of it? Because you, and similar to me, I'm always in a good mood, pretty much. I'm always trying to spread some positivity, no matter how bad the situation is. And that's sometimes difficult to see outside of that rainbows and unicorns.

SPEAKER_02 54:00

Yeah, I love it. Unicorns our mascot. So discover that we have uh yeah, we have we have all unicorn meetings. So that's our team, monthly meetings and all unicorn meetings. We give away the unicorn award. And so when a team member sees something that's above and beyond, okay, they get a pick when they're gonna share it. So it's been sitting with someone for three months now for their thing. But unicorn, we did research on this. Okay. So unicorns always showed up in a time of need. Okay. Right? They showed up when someone was poison sick or needed a miracle to happen. And it was the mystical thing that shouldn't be, but it is. Yeah. So for us, you hear the saying, like, oh, I'm looking for a unicorn.

SPEAKER_03 54:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:33

And we've realized part of that is the character and culture of the DNA, what's in the person. Part of that is the blend of the system that you've created for them to come into. And so what we're trying to get to is we don't need a unicorn as long as we have a white horse, our system will make him a unicorn. Right? And so it's like we'll add that.

Mark Jones 54:49

We'll add those stripes. No problem. It's good. That's pretty good.

SPEAKER_02 54:52

No, but to answer your question, I think early on it was hard for me because I wanted people probably out of insecurity. Primal question, if you haven't done the primal question right, it talks about your childhood question that you want to answer answered. Okay. And so for me, my primal question is, Am I loved? I'll send it to you. It's a phenomenal test. It's amazing to take through your team because you understand the filter in which they're operating, and then you can speak directly to that. Okay. So for me, it's am I am I loved? Do people see me and appreciate who I am? Yeah. And then it will talk down when you're when you're operating in your scramble, when you don't get those things, here's what you do. Right. So you're I'm high level, I'm avoidant, I don't go deep. I'm not energetically looking outward. I'm wanting someone to see me. And so I'm not giving my blessing, which is the ability to allow people to feel fully seen and loved. Which is why I mean, at least for me, people tell me stuff they shouldn't because I genuinely care and I'm curious and I'm willing to ask the question in a way. Yeah. And it's like, that's my superpower. If I sit with you long enough, I'm gonna ask something, and you're gonna look back and be like, why did I tell you?

Mark Jones 55:49

Amy, does he remind you of me? Is this not weird? I'm having this conversation with you. Yeah, man. It's uh it's it is a mindset, and we grew up totally different.

SPEAKER_02 56:03

Yeah, that just wow. So so for me early on, I would I would interview, and it's the the fault is I was trying to sell myself to get you to want to work with me versus me having the confidence and the authority of my seat on what I'm trying to build and what done looks like to be able to ask you the hard questions. Right. And that's just a season of evolution because part of it is I don't know what I need in the seat. This is what I think I need. We got to execute it and then we'll pivot. And so as each seat has kind of developed, I've gotten better and better and better and quicker at honing in and asking those questions. And then I know we're gonna talk about life. So one of the things I try to do in an interview is I'll just look at someone and try to read their mail. And hey, I feel like you're insecure on this, this, whatever it may be. And just put it out there, just ask the questions. That's right. You know what I mean? And like I've learned to trust my gut with that. It's I'm spiritually discerning with those things. And so I just say it and see where it goes. And it's like, if that excites you, if you want to grow in that area, you're gonna fit into our DNA because we're investing in you. Yeah. If that terrifies you, then you're probably gonna run away.

SPEAKER_03 57:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:01

And so, write Gary V, hire fast, fire faster, promote the fastest. Amen. And it's like, okay, let's let's do that. But I still got to do my due diligence and make sure you're gonna be an appropriate fit. Yeah. And so it's a work in progress.

Mark Jones 57:13

And I also believe in Gary V when he says you don't need more people on your team, you need to hire better people.

SPEAKER_02 57:19

Yep. Yeah.

Mark Jones 57:20

Which I mean, hiring is stinking hard.

SPEAKER_02 57:21

It's hard.

Mark Jones 57:22

It's hard. Hiring is even harder.

SPEAKER_02 57:24

AI, I mean, hiring, uh, yeah. Hiring is hard because, especially if they for me, if they have a family, they're betting their family's livelihood on coming into your company.

SPEAKER_03 57:35

Yeah.

Growing A Company With Culture

SPEAKER_02 57:36

Right. And so if you do them a disservice and pull them in and it's the wrong fit, you're putting them back in the chaos rather quickly. Yeah. Now, if you've done it appropriately and they've made a mistake, it's easy to fire because it's just the wrong fit. And there's there's candid fluidity because you've set up expectations. Sure, you've communicated your one-on-one. And it's like, hey, is this just the best fit? What how do we transition well? Like, what does this look like? Oh, it looks solid. Break compromise and integrity issues. That's quick. That's different. But everything else, we can just figure out like, hey, what's the what's the best off ramp for you? And for us, I mean, I've had team members who we've released call and like thank us. Like, hey, you taught me about time management and block scheduling, and like I'm teaching that to my kid now, and I'm so grateful. That's cool. Yeah, like it's just that's just cool. Yeah, it's like the stuff's fun.

Mark Jones 58:18

It really is. Okay, so one more, and then I'm gonna go wrap up. We haven't even talks like money investing.

SPEAKER_02 58:23

I thought we were gonna talk about how to set up like solo 401ks and how to get into venture capital. You don't want my advice on that one, man.

Mark Jones 58:30

I'll tell you to put it in real estate. Real estate. Yeah, we're gonna put it in real estate.

SPEAKER_02 58:34

We're in uh there's a company responsive capital, JD, out of Charleston. So we partner with them for a lot of apartment complex investments. And I was I was texting him the other day. I'm like, I think I need to get you two together. So he's a he's a oh dude, he's a nut. Best possible way. But that's been one of the best quick rate of returns for us, right? Because it's passive. Yeah, you put your money in, you get your preferred return. Yeah, then you get your ownership kick out. And it's, I mean, I'm sure you know the model, right? Absolutely. And it's and I'm like, dude, you're a stop. I'm like, is this what you're doing? He's like, yep. I'm like, man, I wish I was smart enough to do that. But for us, we were a part of one of his worst investments that he's had, and we still got a 14% rate of return. Oh, that's nice. I'm like, this is the worst, bro.

Mark Jones 59:11

Like, I'm I'm happy with doing showing how much more money do you want, man? Like, let's stop. Yeah, are you a hog or are you a pig? That's awesome. Okay, let's see here. So, for time purposes, let's go straight to rapid fire. No, bro. What do you want? We're this long form, right?

SPEAKER_02 59:26

This is let's go three and a half hours. Let's go to it. I like it.

Mark Jones 59:31

I like it. Let's see here. Okay, rapid fire. Here we go. What was your biggest leadership mistake early on? Uh, this isn't rapid fire. It is quick, quick answer. No explanation.

SPEAKER_02 59:47

Uh I just want to know what it was. I don't know. That's that's tough. Uh, biggest leadership mistake, honestly, wasn't betting on myself soon enough. Okay. That's my biggest regret. Okay. I'll own that. And I'm I'm not good at managing teams. Okay. I'm not a manager. I'm a you're a doer. I'm a visionary leader. I can figure out systems extremely fast. I hate managing. Okay. And then I didn't realize that I needed that ownership piece. Otherwise, like I'd get super frustrated with people.

Mark Jones 1:00:12

Yeah. Yeah. When did you start cold plunging?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:16

When I was going through my who am I and my anxiety thing. That phase. So that the freeze we had, my neighbor lived in corpus, but he had a pool next door. Okay. And so I was like, hey, dude, I'll go drip your faucets and check your house as long as I can jump in your pool. Ha! And so started jumping in his pool and it reset my blood pressure, reset my heart rate, and it it became my decompress at the end of the day. That's how I started.

Mark Jones 1:00:35

And so I love it. Walking my butt into the pool. Yeah, it's great. And then now I'm addicted. It's every day. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:43

Yeah. I did I did the Wim Hof and then jumped in Bernie Lake. It was like 19 degrees. Oh, God bless. Dude, you're nuts. And then I went to the saltwater pool, and then now I got the plunge in the backyard. Yeah. This is where I insert the white people.

Mark Jones 1:00:56

It just turns your brain off. It does. And that's why you can't really think about anything but the cold until the cold is really gone. And then by that time, you find peace. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:07

Yeah. It's weird. Got into box breathing, loved CrossFit because you had to turn your braid off into jujitsu right now. Same thing. Either you got to turn your brain off and focus, or someone else is going to turn your brain off for you. That's true.

Mark Jones 1:01:17

Yeah, no, that uh but a good friend of mine owns it's house of jujitsu downtown. Okay. And he says the same thing. Yeah. Lives by it. It's awesome. Yeah. That's cool. Okay. So what it what do most leaders get wrong about culture?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:31

Ooh, they try to outwardly express what they are not themselves. Ooh. Okay.

Mark Jones 1:01:36

That was good. One habit that keeps you grounded.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:40

Rare. Okay. Yeah. It's a great one. And honestly, before I go to bed, I go sit on my front porch for like five minutes and just sit.

unknown 1:01:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:47

I know it's done. Just decompress. I just sit. Yeah. Like be still. I'm a go, go, go guy.

Mark Jones 1:01:52

I can I can actually relate to that. And instead of the sitting, it's my car ride home in complete silence, just going. That sounds like hell to me. I'm telling you. Try it one time. Try it one time. And your yourself will start talking to yourself, and you go, no, no, no, no. This isn't this isn't a time to do that. No, no, I get it. This is just a time. There's beauty in the stillness.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:11

I like sunrises, sunsets, windows down. Just being.

Mark Jones 1:02:15

But letting your hair just go off through the I want to listen to a podcast. I know.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:18

I've better have my beard here. I love it.

Mark Jones 1:02:20

You're ADD, by the way. I don't know what you're talking about. A D D A D H D. Okay, so what I already did that one. What matters more than money right now in your life? Health. I love that. Same here, actually. I keep repeating the phrase over and over. I want to live a long life. I want to live a long life. And that's what reminds me be healthy. Do this, do that, do this.

Rapid Fire And Final Advice

SPEAKER_02 1:02:42

And and health, you can look at it from how's my body? Health, you can look at where I'm at, spiritual and identity. Health, you can look at how are the depths of my relationships with my family. Are we flourishing? Are we thriving? Yeah. It's holistic. And the the beauty about going door to door, I have met so many people, and again, naturally curious. Yeah. And so the old timers, I ask them all these questions. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? And they'll just tell you about life. Oh, I should have got my heart checked here and calling with that and screwed up with this. And like, like for me, it's accelerated learning, right? Don't have a dad, right? And so for me, I'm always looking. You're seeking. I'm trying to learn. Like, hey, who can I learn from? Who can I watch from? That's really a solid trade. The beauty has been like just these old timers giving you these nuggets of wisdom.

Mark Jones 1:03:26

Well, I I say it quite often on this show with many other guests regarding the concept of newer to the business leveling up. And the first thing that comes to mind is first, do it for free. Once you do it for free, then you'll start to get why we're doing it. What you're looking for different things. And then the second thing is just simply ask. Anybody that's been there, all you gotta do is ask. They want to help you. They absolutely do. Why? And I don't know. Oh my gosh, I've been there. I don't want you to have it. Right. It's like it does no good just being in here.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:00

So all you got to do is ask. Well, it's the people who do that well don't have scarcity mindset. Right. Right. And so even for me in this industry, semi-competitive. And I talk to people and I'm like, this isn't a zero sum game.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:12

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:12

Just because you got a deal and I didn't doesn't mean I lost. And so even before coming in here, another roofing contractor on the phone with him, young guy, 28, trying to hire him. Right. He wants to continue to do his own thing. I'm like, bro, just come build something with me. But he's like, hey, have you heard about wholesale houses? And dah dah, dah. I'm like, dude, focus on your business. One thing. Don't get distracted right now. Like, worry about that once you have capital and you need to diversify it. But right now, take those two to three hours that you have that you can't be on doors and you can't be on marketing and like refine your skills. That's gonna pay out way better than you learning how to make 15, 20, 30k on one quick house flip before you burn it.

Mark Jones 1:04:49

That's great advice, actually. Because you're right. Having been through that progression and also that from what I thought was progression, and it was really just a distraction from what I needed to be doing.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:03

Yeah, you gotta build the engine. Yes. And then you use the reserves from the engines to get the other revenue streams. And it's like everyone hears, oh, I need four revenue streams. And it's like, you don't even have one. Go get all the capital. That's right. Create the problem and then figure out the different opportunities. And one day you'll wake up and you're like, oh my gosh, I'm a multimillionaire. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:22

Yeah.

Mark Jones 1:05:23

It's a great concept and it does work. You just stay the course. Last question. One thing that you'd tell yourself back in 2020.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:34

It's gonna be hard, but it's worth it. Okay. And is it? 100%. I love that. Yeah, I know you're ending. Sorry. I love that. No, this was fun. I know this is probably the worst thing to say, but it was fun for my wife and Danny and I to hang out, I don't know, four weeks ago, five weeks ago. And this this is not again, it sounds horrible, but I looked at them like, hey guys, even if even if we have to turn the business off right now, right? Like we've accomplished more than we realized in the Depth of our relationships and our personalities and like who we are as men and women and our families. It's like this was worth it.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:06

The lives we've changed, the people we've impacted, it's a win. And that's actually created so much more freedom in who we are and what we do because it's not about a dollar amount or getting to a certain size. It's we've created legacy change in the people around us, and that's fun.

Mark Jones 1:06:22

You're not only on the money, but the concept that you're talking about right now is the same reason why I keep a stapled bag of ramen noodles right on my wall next to you walk in my office right now, there's ramen noodles right on the dang wall right there. Just as a reminder of the perspective of where we've been, where we are, and how easy it is to find yourself back there. But that's okay. It's okay. You've got everything else already. If anything, you've been through it and know you can get through it.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:52

I think that's the most exciting thing. And that was a blessing my wife gave me probably two years ago. She's like, hey, I just want you to know that I completely trust that you can figure out how to take care of our family.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:06

Right. And it's like, no, there's a resilience of I've done it once, I can do it again. Absolutely. And the challenge for most people is go see if you can do it once. That's right. And the reality of it is if you don't quit, you will. That's right. You know what I mean?

Mark Jones 1:07:18

Like, yeah. You will in some Blake, this has been awesome. Getting to know you, and I'm looking forward to getting to know you even more because you are my people, dude. For real. And I want to give you an opportunity to tell the guests, the listeners, most of the folks listening are people that are either looking to buy a home, sell a home in the real estate business, in the mortgage business, insurance industry, or they're business owners. So you can basically tell them whatever you want right now.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:45

Oh, this is fun. The first thing that you said here, here's what I would tell all the realtors and people about to sell your house. Can you please have someone who knows how to look at your property come out and see if it would qualify from insurance before you put a contract on? Because that 10-day option is the biggest pain in the ass for anyone to help solve you that problem with within 10 days. It's so annoying. I'm like, again, legitimate damage. If you have legitimate storm damage, like get the roof taken care of. Realtors, your number one negotiating thing of the, oh, we need a new roof, lower the price is gone. You can increase curb appeal, increase equity. You've been paying for a service that you haven't utilized. Can you just do that? Like absolutely that's solid, man. No, it's great. It drives me crazy. I'm like, why are you guys calling with four days? That's awesome. You can't do anything. No, that's what I would say. I would say pause, pause and enjoy life, right? There's plenty of great people out there. Find your tribe. Yeah. That's what I'd say. I mean, I I sell widgets. You sell a widget. Like, go go get a chat GPT and figure out, hey, how do I? I mean, you're right. It's I just found a river and I'm swimming in it.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:51

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:52

Dealing with the current. It doesn't matter.

Mark Jones 1:08:56

How do the people get a hold of you? How do how do they find Blake? How do they find your company?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:00

Yeah, no. Churchill USA, right? The beauty of doing Churchill USA, loved the name. Winston Churchill apparently came to the USA a lot. So we had to work our butts off to pop up. Yeah. But no, you can find us on all the socials, all the handles. Love what we do, love who we are. Take pride in how we serve and inspire people. One of the best things when you look at our Google reviews is people will say our project concierge has become their best friend. And it's like, I take pride in that. So hey, if you had need, we we focus in on high-end residential roofing area, standing seam tile. That's our bread and butter. Don't really play in the shingle game. It's just different. You know what I mean? And it's it's a we're in a niche, but we love it. It's just a different game. And we take pride in who we are and what we do. And hey, uh, if you're looking to be a sales guy and bet on yourself, like reach out to me. There you go. Great people, let's have some fun. Absolutely. I love that.

Mark Jones 1:09:50

Guys, gals out there listening, this was kind of a testament to prove to myself and to you all out there that we can have a discussion with another intellectual individual that provides substance, that provides value that's outside of our industry, um, and in some ways tied to the industry. But also to show you guys that the mindset, no matter what the industry, um, to be a successful individual that leads and works for something bigger than themselves, um that's the real question. They're kind of the same. That being said, guys, we will catch you on the next one.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:25

Accomplish everything in one day or even one week, just focus on getting a little better every single day.