Breaking Down the Psychology of Money with Myiesha Beard

Have you ever thought about the psychological impact your relationship with money has on your life? Money, our guest Myiesha Beard, a licensed professional counselor, points out, is deeply entangled with our emotions and family dynamics - and it's high time we explore this profound connection. A fascinating journey awaits you as we discuss everything from family dynamics affecting our money habits to financial trauma and its signs.

The conversation gets intriguing as we delve into the complex world of financial stress, anxiety, and how these elements influence our money management strategies. With Myiesha's expertise guiding us, we uncover the varied money personalities, the impact of fear of money, and the intricacies of compulsive spending and saving. Information-packed and eye-opening, this discussion could be your ticket to understanding and improving your relationship with money.

Finally, we conclude the podcast with valuable advice on addressing financial issues promptly and understanding the importance of preventive measures. Myiesha helps us understand the psychological aspects of ignoring creditors and why it's essential to seek help before it’s too late. With practical tips and valuable insights, this episode transforms the daunting world of finance into a realm of understanding and control, leaving you equipped to embrace a healthier financial future. Get ready to shatter preconceived notions and embark on a journey of financial enlightenment with Myiesha Beard.

Guest:
Myiesha Beard, Licensed professional counselor
Restore Counseling Services

Transcript

Intro: 0:02

Welcome to Money Matters, the podcast that focuses on how to use the money you have, make the money you need and save the money you want. Now here is your host, ms Kim Chapman.

Kim: 0:14

Welcome to another edition of Money Matters. I am your host, Kim Chapman. When it comes to money, are you a saver or a spender, or do you fall somewhere in the middle? Have you ever thought about your relationship with money? How was it formed? Today, we will discuss relationships with money and how it can affect your money management skills. You know, if you're really really good at it, how did you become so great? And if you're really really terrible, how did you, you know, become so terrible at it? Today, my guest is Myiesha Beard, a board-approved, licensed professional counselor. Welcome, Myiesha, Thank you. How are you doing today?

Myiesha: 0:49

Great, so excited to be here.

Kim: 0:52

I'm definitely excited to kind of have you dig in and kind of dissect why we do the things we do with money or don't do the things that we should do with money. So, before we get started, give us a little bit of information about you, your background and your practice.

Myiesha: 1:07

Okay again, I'm Myiesha Beard, licensed professional counselor. I've been practicing therapy or counseling for 20 years, with the last 10 years being in outpatient private practice, which happens to be my own practice restore counseling services. Primarily in my practice I see the general population children, adults, couples and families, but my specialty is child and family services. So in that practice I do individual groups, some coaching, consulting, all related to mental health, wellness, and I focus on three areas, which is prevention, maintenance and treatment.

Kim: 1:43

Okay, awesome, so money. I imagine nobody knocks on your door and says I have a problem with money. But ironically, let me see if I can pull this up. There are a couple of phobias that I looked up and you can tell me if you've ever even heard of these, if you've actually maybe even had to treat somebody. One is chromatophobia, which is the fear of spending money. I don't think I know anybody that has that fear. And then there's another one Dysmorphia is feeling insecure and unstable despite having plenty of money and savings, a padded emergency fund and being stable. Yeah, so have you heard of these, or have you ever even had to treat somebody for that?

Myiesha: 2:23

So I definitely have heard of them In previous experience. It doesn't come as the primary source. So in counseling, other things are revealed and then you see that that is the issue. Or when you look at the root cause of some of the issues that they have been faced with money, is it? So money is a primary source in clinical mental health because of everything that it goes with. So it is not a DSM, meaning a diagnosis, but it is something that we treat based on symptoms that a person may come in with.

Kim: 2:52

Okay, so let's start talking about family dynamics. How can family dynamics influence how money is viewed?

Myiesha: 3:00

I think it's all in the upbringing and what you see in your family. So, for example, right now, how we're spending money, our kids are watching that and then they in turn become contributors of that based on what they've seen. So in families, if money is an issue, it's always discussed. They hear frustration around money when it's time to spend things. So that's where you become having this fear of money or money, even if it is an issue in your family. So it's based on what you're seeing in homes. And so for the parents, it's really their relationship with money is affecting how the children grow up. So if there's a positive relationship with money and savings is discussed and you know planning and budgeting, that's what the child will in turn have. They may not necessarily do it, but it's their route. They have it, they can do it. But if it's a frustration around money, it in turns make the child more frustrated with money as well. So it's what you see, just like any other issue that we can have is what you see in your home how well it's discussed, how well you're prepared to see if it's an issue or if it will be a strength as it relates to the family unit.

Kim: 4:08

And I think I've seen that in terms of doing financial counseling, as I do a lot of workshops around the city. You know I'll share stories and there is one in particular that I see over and over again. You know you'll have individuals that grew up in a home where money was not plentiful and perhaps the parents or the guardians did not pay a bill until that final notice was in. You know, back in those days when we had snail mail, you know you'd see the little red notice and that's when you know bills were paid. And then you fast forward the next generation. That is pretty, let's say, maybe financially well off, but they've been conditioned, you know, to understand that we don't pay bills until it's the final notice. You know how would you, how can you correct that?

Myiesha: 4:53

You can correct it. It depends on the education that the parents receive. But you also have to be sure and understand that it's what they do. So sometimes it's comfortable for them to do that because they're trying to avoid stress. So you and I may become stressed when we know that we don't have the money to pay something, or we know that something is coming up, but other families may look at it as like it's not due right now. So let's really look at what we can have on the table prior to worrying about this. But at the same time, in the end it does cause more stress when you have those things late fees and all of those things are coming. But it does affect how you respond to money because of your relationship or your conditioned mindset. So that depends on the person's personality or what they have to give or gain as it relates to that.

Kim: 5:38

So when I was doing my little research, I came across a term financial trauma Is that a real thing?

Myiesha: 5:44

It is, it is, it is.

Kim: 5:46

So what can contribute to financial trauma?

Myiesha: 5:50

You know, trauma is experienced or observed, and if we turn on our TVs right now, everything related to trauma. The financial stress of the nation is so very huge, so it then in turn affects the way you respond to money. So if you have a true trauma, you're going to be very careful about it. Most times you're going to have anxiety as it relates to spending money. Most people who have the money may hold on to it a little bit longer in fear of not having it. Or those who have an opportunity to say I'm OK right now I have. This is not affecting me. They may spend more because they have it right now. It just depends on how the person perceives it. But financial trauma is a real thing and it is often addressed across the board. You know may not necessarily be in counseling, but it is something that is affecting citizens a lot.

Kim: 6:37

Is that something? Is that this type of trauma something that can be corrected without counseling?

Myiesha: 6:43

Yes, but it has to be a behavior practice. So if you're not going to go to counseling for it, you know there are financial counselors and people that can assist you with that, People that can help you with your credit. But it all depends on how bad you want it and most times it's as a result of failed things. So something happened my credit score ended up being extremely no. Now I want to try and repair that. But if that fear doesn't happen, then the behavior just continues. We would like for it to be a prevention stance, where we kind of become educated and we look at the nation's experience with money right now and how do I not allow that to affect me? What things can I put in place to ensure that my family is OK as it relates to money? So it's really an education on a continuing basis, you know, versus being afraid of it, Just making sure. If this is what you want, what are things you're willing to put in place to ensure that won't happen to you or won't happen again?

Kim: 7:38

And of course you know we all like to walk around in life and somewhat think that we're OK. Nobody wants to wake up in the morning and say I have a problem. What, if anything, would be red flags that your financial trauma right or your behavior is something that needs to be addressed?

Myiesha: 7:56

When it becomes an issue where it's affecting your overall functioning of life. Right, so you're not necessarily gambling, but that is an issue with money too, and that's something that I see in my practice a lot. We may not do that continuously, but if it's providing some issues in the family, then it's an opportunity for you to say this is something that we need to change. Counseling is not the first place that people would go. You know they may try to figure it out on their own or move some other things around, but it should be an opportunity for everybody to think about. Let's figure out a way that we can get out of this. Primarily, it's just happening too late. So if it's not a counselor, as far as me related to mental health, it's somebody else a credit repair agency that can kind of help you get through that. But almost always it is not a prevention base. It's as a result of a loss, as a result of an impairment that's affecting your overall response with money, your bills, foreclosure, those kind of things. So they have to be really huge now to get people's attention, and that's very unfortunate.

Kim: 8:59

You know, money comes with a lot of cliches and of course when you think of even you know couples, they say opposite a track. Right, you know. And of course in my practice I find that's very volatile when you have a spender and then you have a saver.

Myiesha: 9:14

You know they kind of clash.

Kim: 9:15

They don't mix too well like oil and water. So for dating couples, what are red flags that they should look for in terms of habits that could be problematic in terms of their relationship? Because of course you know you don't see it in the news anymore, but I can remember all the time they would say oh, you know, the divorce rate is 50 percent. And the number one reason for divorce, of course, was always financial issues. So, what are those? What type of red flags, in terms of finances, should you be looking for?

Myiesha: 9:45

So right now, financial infidelity is huge and, again, that's not a DSM, but it's something that clinicians use to kind of identify problems within families as it relates to money. So making sure that you discuss your budget. Everyone has access to the checking account and I know right now some families use like you have your own checking account, I have mine but if you're doing something joint and money starts to be missed or bills are becoming late Are you getting notices and things like that? You don't wait until those things result to something huge. You kind of talk about it before. So couples should definitely have communication backing up to prime Prior to being married or being in a committed relationship. You need to discuss your financial goals with that person because if they don't align, then you're just creating an issue that can be ongoing. Maybe this person does not have the skill to successfully manage money right and so you can be skilled, you can be a saver. If you don't identify that as a need for you or a priority for that relationship, it will come up in a different way. So making sure that you communicate about everything you do family check-ins and things like that talking about the budget or preparing for some large Purchases and I believe it's important to talk about those things prior to you. But it depends on what that relationship is based on. You know, some people feel like it's their money. They get to spend whatever, but if it's going to affect all of us, it needs to be discussed prior.

Kim: 11:09

So you say a financial infidelity? Yeah, that's the first time I've heard that term. Oh, it's a deal, it can you maybe talk about that a little bit more.

Myiesha: 11:16

Yeah, so having money and not sharing the information as it relates to the money, spending money and not notifying your spouse as it relates to that, if you are having shared accounts and things like that, or taking the money out, some people kind of borrow from the savings plan, not necessarily sharing it or their 401k or whatever, and then that partner finds out late and they have. They have a whole nother agenda. So that is financial infidelity. When you're not being open about it's just like cheating on your spouse, but you're cheating on the financial goals that we have established together. So that is very huge.

Kim: 11:49

That opens a whole new life. Because of course I think you know we all know couples and you know the wife may have their side account, the husband may have their side account and just I guess maybe insinuating the word side account Connects it to financial infidelity. Yeah that's a new term that I may have to use the fear of if this relationship does not sustain.

Myiesha: 12:13

And back to how we respond to money I need to some women or men. They may feel like I need to stack something here just in case this doesn't work out or the Relationship starts to look a little crazy. Let me start doing these things in fear of me not having this right. It's just like a job. Everybody wants to be protected and I think that is perfectly fine. If you're aware of it now, you may not necessarily discuss why I have five thousand dollars put the side or ten thousand dollars, but if they find out, that's another issue, right, unless you come in together. So I'm not saying you have to put your money together. I'm not saying that you need separate accounts. I'm saying whatever you do as a union should be discussed and should be. You know that person should know what's going on with you.

Kim: 12:54

So we've been talking about money for just a few minutes and one word that seems to come up but you know whether it was you or myself constantly seems to be the word fear. Why do you think people avoid money, financial situations or fear it?

Myiesha: 13:09

The fear of not having it or fear of the ability of losing something that they have. So sometimes having money Creates fear because how will I spend it? I want to make sure that I continue to make money, so I'm not spending. I'm overcompensating in fear of a loss or I'm spending too much in fear that I wouldn't have. So that goes all the way back to what you think about. If you have any other issues, really like if you have anxiety overall, anxiety affects your over everything. It affects how you respond and things to come and things that are presented right now. So if you have a financial fear that stays with you, it doesn't matter how much money you have. You may have a fear of losing it with no idea of how things can come. You're just kind of being a little extra careful, so you're overcompensating and really what you should be doing is being in the now, recognizing what you have now thinking about. If this is what it takes for me to be comfortable as it relates to money, what things do I need to put in place back to that planning and preparation, so that fear won't overtake your life? Because if you do have a strategy I mean an issue of fear of money. It affects how you live. You don't buy anything, you don't go anywhere. You're not living the life you deserve in fear of not having the money.

Kim: 14:21

And how common do you see this type of fear, even though, like you said, somebody may come to your practice for some other?

Myiesha: 14:27

issue.

Kim: 14:28

How common do you see that there is a fear or there is some irrational or maybe not normal Relationship with money show up that obviously is affecting maybe the real reason that they actually came in it Primarily wasn't an issue a while ago, but because of where we are as a nation and everything is going up.

Myiesha: 14:47

You know it's a huge factor. It comes out almost in every couple session that's presented, because when you talk about what creates issue or conflict in a relationship, it's always financial concerns, financial concerns and communication. So now it's very common. And so how?

Kim: 15:02

can we Lessen our anxiety or overcome these fears again without having to go into a Situation or circumstance in terms where we're seeking therapy?

Myiesha: 15:12

right now. If you don't have a financial issue right, you don't have a financial concern. There's no conflict with money. Stick to the budget. If you don't have a budget, develop a budget and then do some little check-ins to ensure that you okay If you find that you're overspending. You're kind of looking for some type of risk. That's what it is when it relates to money. Is it a risk if I spend this much? I need to figure out how to Navigate through this process of these financial strains that we all have, no matter how much money you have. Everybody's being faced with that.

Kim: 15:42

Just looking at the planning and preparation to avoid it, see, I love this conversation because my favorite word that I love to throw out is budgeting. And so here we have it, from a licensed professional counselor she is. She is echoing the same sentiments that I say that you need to budget, budget, budget. You know we talk about this in our, in our sessions, in terms of workshops, that Having a budget is the number one way to actually reduce stress. And so you know, now, having you to kind of echo that I may have to kind of put this Recording and just kind of play it in the background, because it really really does. I can say from my own personal experience, having that budget allows you to take control of your money and know what to expect, so you don't have these kind of you know, not knowing where your money is going, where it went or what's going to happen. So I want to take a couple minutes and just talk about the different there are different money Personalities that are identified and just to see if you can maybe kind of give some insight on the pros and cons of each one. So the first one is is that can Pulse of Spender? So of course we are all, we all have to spend money, but you're a compulsive Spender. I.

Myiesha: 16:55

Just relayed that back to immediate gratification, right. So we, there's this thing that money can't buy happiness. Money does buy happiness, whatever you feel. But it's kind of you need things to make you happy, right. Things make you comfortable, things provide that security for you. So if you're a compulsive Spender, I mean you're doing it all the time just to feel good, primarily, and so you may have it. But do you really need all of that? Just kind of asking yourself and not putting any fear on anybody, but just kind of doing a survey of the cons would be spending too much, of course, and I don't really know any pros to compulsive spending. It's not a financial gain at all. It does not help you as far as mental health is concerned and I'm gonna bring everything back to mental health because you worry about it if you don't have it. But just kind of putting things in place to avoid that, that's really not a good thing to do. Too much of anything is a problem, right. Too much of spending, too much of partying, too much of anything can create an issue for you. So you want to have a balance. So there's another be budget and balance all right now.

Kim: 18:00

Ladies, ladies, if you're listening, turn up the radio, because this is something that I don't even think I have on my list for questions.

Myiesha: 18:08

But retail therapy, yeah you know the thing it is, and some people feel that it's cheaper than actual therapy, but it's not. But it's a feel-good right and so I think it's important for us. It's self care it is, but again, you do it in the balance and then you kind of plan for that. Now I don't want to tell people how to spend their money, but when we're looking to feel good that's probably primarily all the time use it as a reward, right? So I know that I've done all of these things and I have the budget to do it, so I'm gonna go out and do xyz, but that's not what we're seeing. What we're seeing. What retail therapy is my? I'm upset today. I've been upset all week. This has been a frustrating month. Let me go to sacks and get all of these things and after that, what do you do? Your frustration will still return. So try not to live as it relates to that and think of other ways to kind of provide that for you, because if it's going to Create an issue next, we want to avoid that all together.

Kim: 19:06

So it feels good right now, but the issue is the one that you was running from is coming back at some point and and that's something that I usually like to kind of point out to clients, because I think it's one of those issues that again your children are watching and so you know we throw that term around real loosely. Retail therapy I need some, I've done it before, but then you know, wonder what are we teaching our children? That when we have a problem, money or shopping can be the answer, and you can begin to substitute it right.

Myiesha: 19:33

So just think of retail therapy. Being right up there with Excessive alcohol or taking further risk is just for immediate gratification, and those are things that you really want to stay away from or streamline it where you are in control of it. If you know when it's happening, you're good. But if you don't, and it's more on an impulsive basis, that's an issue, because that means how you show up there, it's how you show up everywhere. That's just not with money, that's with your overall life. So then you have to kind of manage your life a little better to see where these things are going.

Kim: 20:04

And I'm gonna try and sound a little clinical because it seems like a side effect of retail therapy would then be buyers remorse.

Myiesha: 20:10

Yeah, all of that. And then you think about it right, I purchased this huge thing because it felt good at the time, or I go buy a new car and then I think about that. I really need that car. My note didn't go up, but my overall, what I owe overall did so. That keeps you in the bind for longer. You know, and some people don't think about that, so I can't tell you how to think. I'm just saying be mindful of the things that are associated with how you spend your money, kind of comes back on you.

Kim: 20:38

So if I natural counseling, you know we have this little 24-hour rule. You know, for people that may find themselves as compulsive shoppers will say, okay, you know, if you go to the store and you see it and of course it was not on the list because I definitely Preach shop with a list. You know, give yourself 24 hours.

Myiesha: 20:56

You know, really think about it. Yeah, so is there any to? Okay, I was gonna say there better and longer, longer, like maybe two weeks. Oh, because you know, we think what our emotions and this is women and men, primarily women do, but we really want to is not if I wanted it, do I need it right now.

Kim: 21:15

What if the cell is gonna be over?

Myiesha: 21:17

It may be. It may be, but then you have a cushion for that right. So this is where the management comes in. Like you have a budget but then you have things at the bottom, like the bottom line. This is what I could do if I needed it, and then, if you don't use it that month, you can prior, you know, roll it over or something like that. But just thinking up, will it come back on me? Will it affect me, and how to respond if it does so, yeah, okay.

Kim: 21:38

So we've talked a lot about that compulsive spender and all these issues, but the compulsive saver yeah, what would you say about the compulsive saver? I read studies that say that that person is gonna be stingy.

Myiesha: 21:49

Yeah, and that person will not let go of money for no matter what. So even with our budget. So you have a savings right, but with our budget some people have no room for grace, no room for change. It affects them, because not having the money Affects them as well, and they will have anxiety or some kind of concern as it relates to that. So I would just still say get a bottom line number. You cannot save everything, like you can't spend everything, but you need to know how much of that savings that you need, based on how much you're getting paid. You know. Get a percentage for each your needs, your wants, your savings, your emergency funds. All of that is a process, but don't be so rigid as it relates to that, because things change every day. Just like you have all of that savings and then the washer goes out, what are you gonna do then? Like not get the washer, because I mean, I've seen where people want a certain number in their account. If it's not their number, they don't. They don't move it because it frustrates them too much. So things will go behind because they're sticking to this bottom number. Is that really good? No, that's an issue, because you still stress about it having that bottom number so good for the savings. It is an overall great experience if you can do it, but I still believe, just like you have a number to spend, you should primarily have a number to save.

Kim: 23:05

You know, and just speaking about having those certain things, I guess I'll just kind of do my confession. I have to have even numbers in my bank.

Myiesha: 23:12

You're one of those people, if not that person. I was just talking about it, not it really.

Kim: 23:17

Frustrates. You right it does. And I will move you know 35 cents, because my balance was 65, to make it a whole dollar. A whole dollar. And my child Will do the same thing. She has called me and said mama, can you move you know 45 cents to my account because I need to have a? So why are we, can you?

Myiesha: 23:41

I'm not gonna diagnose you, but it's a part of your personality and I'm sure you found that that helps you. It either helps ease your anxiety, it helps ease your concern, it helps your overall balance is easier to remember, but you've now understood it to work for you. That's why you don't want to do it. That's not where you want to change it, but how much weight is that on you, making sure that you have that all the time? Now, if you could put it in and I look back, okay, congratulations. But if it caused any other excessive thoughts for you, that's when we see that there's a potential problem

Kim: 24:12

Okay, okay, okay, so we'll see if I need to sign up.

Myiesha: 24:14

So look this week make sure to just see if you can do it without you know no.

Kim: 24:19

I can't, but it just seems to be, it's easier for you, it's so pleasant to look at and clear and clean. And it's funny the first time my child came to me and said, mama, can you transfer some sense, because she needed to have an even number, and you were like, oh my God, this is me Exactly, and so it really speaks to that, our children. When it comes to money, I think they see, you know, it's not so much what we say but what we do, because they watch those particular habits.

Myiesha: 24:45

Well, what happens in the other account? Do you just have a separate account just for that, because it's going to be different too, right, I mean?

Kim: 24:53

it's not all the time. It's not all the time. For example, my savings, which?

Myiesha: 24:58

is you know where I'm not using all the time that one.

Kim: 25:01

I have to have I have to have even numbers in this, in the savings account. Yeah, the checking it's kind of hard to do, so that one I'll kind of let go. But even then there's still a threshold of, I guess, evenness. You know when I balance my checkbook. Yeah, I love even numbers.

Myiesha: 25:20

So whatever helps All right.

Kim: 25:23

What about that compulsive moneymaker, somebody that's, you know, working all the time, maybe sometimes referred to as a hustler? They're, you know, always looking for a quick book.

Myiesha: 25:34

Yeah, but that person may be trying to avoid not having to right and because of what we see today in society, it teaches us don't just have one stream of income, have multiple, but at the same time when is enough, enough right, and then is that causing you stress. So now I know that people like just say for me, for instance, in private practice, you really don't know what that's going to look like for you each month, so you could either work more, just in case, or you can just keep your main schedule. But for me I just air off on that top and bottom line of what I would like to see. But most people, you know, have multiple streams of income and they just continue to go. They're not thinking about their physical health, they're not thinking about their mental health. So if you can do it without any strain on any of those things, wonderful. But if it caused you a concern, if you have to think about it, you know, if you feel like drained or overwhelmed, that's something you need to think about and kind of fix that. But I know the hustler and I understand what it is and we kind of have to do it in these times. But just looking at what is the effect of it causing the effect of both of them, because you know you will see it either way.

Kim: 26:39

Let's talk a little bit about the giver. And this is the giver in the sense that they will give their last dime and see their lights turned off before they'll have your lights turned off.

Myiesha: 26:50

Mm-hmm, that's a problem. Yeah, and that's our good old aunts that are do that are those people that are primarily taking care of others' kids and they feel like I'm okay if you're okay. So that is a thing to again, not a diagnosis, but it just helps them to live better, to know that you are living better. But I wish it was a place where they can also find support and realize that this is this may be too much for me, or I need to look and see if this is reciprocated. Where can I get additional support if this happens for me? But most times they don't really think about it, they're just doing it. You know, as far as they don't need it and you need, you, ask me for it, I have it. You know that's back in the day we used to. If I have it, I'm going to give it to you, but you have to expect nothing in return. So if you can do it without thinking that they're going to repay, you continue. If them repaying you affects something that happens in your home, then you have to reconsider that and how often you do it.

Kim: 27:42

So I want to talk a little bit of, you know, and again this seems to all center around fear. I feel like you know, money. It makes me think of the cliche that says money is the root of all evil. I never gave a whole lot of thought about it, but, you know, fear seems to come up over and over again, and so I want to talk about, especially in the banking world, the credit world. You know, you have individuals, especially now, that falling on hard times and they're not able to pay their bill, and it seems that the first impulse is to avoid, in terms of you know, I'm sure we all know individuals that will not answer the phone when we see the creditors. I can remember, you know, however, many years ago, when caller ID came out, it was kind of some people's savings grace because, oh, I know that's the credit card company. We're not even going to call them. You know why do you think that there's a mindset to Just avoid versus? You know, we teach in financial counseling the first thing you want to do is, if you can't pay your bills, reach out to your creditors, have that conversation with them, because they may be able to help you, whereas it seems like the natural Thought process is like oh god, no, I can't, I can't pay my bill.

Myiesha: 28:50

I don't want to call them and tell them that I can't or they get upset because they're calling right, but you owe these people, don't forget. But it's more like they want something from me. So why I already know what they want and some people feel like I'll pay them when I get it again goes back to the mindset. But I feel like creditors will work with you a little bit more now After COVID and all of those things. Before they would not, but now you can really call and say there's a portion of this. There are several programs that you can get involved in, probably even hear that you can just have a little better way of kind of paying back and things like that, versus not thinking about it at all. Avoiding it will not make it go away, but in the moment it's easier for them to do. Why? Because I don't want to have that fear, I don't want to worry, I'm having a good day, it's Friday, I'm not gonna let the creditors, you know, mess up my day or whatever that is. But again, if you have to think about it, if you feel like it's gonna return to you and cost even more stress for you, just kind of deal with it, get it over it. I don't have it. Is there a plan that we can do, can we set up something that can help me reach that goal a little bit better? And Sometimes they'll help. Sometimes they may not have the means to do it, but I would really suggest asking you know prior to thinking or running away from them, because they can.

Kim: 30:01

You know, they don't keep calling and I would say you know and this may be a little redundant in terms of the question, because I imagine Most a lot of my clients that I see do not reach out to me until they're back at, you know, used to firm, term, loosely their backers against the wall until they are really in a crisis Circumstance, and I mentioned sometimes in therapy, nobody's gonna reach out to your therapist until you know they've exhausted all their other Speak on it. So why do you think that is? Or how can we change a person's perception in terms of you know, I invite people all the time. You could just come in financial checkup. It doesn't mean that you have a problem. But again, if I, if a client, is contacting me nine times out of ten is because they are in some type of Financial crisis, versus let me take steps to make sure I don't find myself in a crisis.

Myiesha: 30:54

So this is something that I've been working on for a very long time. You heard me say 20 years, right, yes, and so I'm an advocate for overall mental health, but it is the same thing across the board. I will probably be called when it's too late or in a crisis where it's very close to being too late, and I always say we Can't use counseling as a crisis or a crutch, don't just run to survive. And then you know I can't make it without my counselor and don't come when it's too late. I think that's primarily in how well they deal with issues. But we've been saying prevention. That's why I started off by saying a part of my practice is prevention. Then I have treatment and maintenance, right, so if you are okay, you don't just disappear or you don't come at when it's ending, you kind of make a plan to kind of figure out what that is. So I would like for people to do check-ins for mental health. You know there's this wellness check that you can do every year, like you go to your doctor, just checking in. I don't have any issues, but maybe you can give me an assessment and we can kind of figure out what things I need to work on Counselors will allow you to do that. But it's harder for us to kind of work with you when it is at the last minute. We have to figure out ways to do it, we have to get a treatment plan and make sure that we're seeing you that often. But it does depend on what's going on, so everything does not require immediate attention. So when someone calls me and say I'm okay, but I have a little issue, so whenever you can get me in, you know that's good, that's them recognizing it. But primary all the time is I need to see you today.

Kim: 32:21

So I'm gonna switch gears the definition. I'm enjoying this so much because I get to use all my little cliches and quotes. Yeah, of course you've heard the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and wanting a different outcome. Yeah, and so of course, I'll have a client come in and we'll sit down and go over their budget and maybe we'll identify some spending habits or some money management techniques that really need to see that Really need to change and they're not willing to make the changes. It's kind of like I want a different outcome, but I don't want to change the behavior. So what would you recommend?

Myiesha: 32:57

I even say for that Well, definitely ruling in in some of the things that we discussed today. Well, this is the issue that we see. It's recurring every month. It's the same thing. So if they don't want to commit to it, let's try it. Let's put it on a trial basis. If we kind of like not spending this area, you know, and you can expect to see some different results financially. Will you be willing to do that? But at that point you can give them the tools, but it's up to them to decide if they want to use them. So continue to do it. But some people just don't want to change. They don't like change, right? So this has been working for me, even though it keeps me in your office. It's working when I'm away from here, but just trying to encourage them to change something. So I don't believe in removing all of the barriers, because sometimes that's impossible. Let's remove the one that is causing the most stress for you, right? If you have five issues, let's focus on the top two. That will probably potentially have you continue to come back here, whether it's to me or you. Let's kind of see how we can remove these things. But if they don't, then you can just encourage them and be like I'm telling you it'll work. Just please try it. Yeah, but it's up to them at the end of the day to do it.

Kim: 34:05

Wow, this is really, really being good. I tell you, we have so many similarities so I think I need you to come and just kind of move in in the back office and so definitely yeah, I need you to follow me, yeah, echoing in terms of the budget. So I think, really, maybe we want to just kind of wrap up what are some, I guess, healthy steps, individuals that have these fears. Somebody may be listening. They may not believe that they need to see a therapist. They may not even think, oh, it's not a problem. But maybe some of the things that I heard today I recognize I'm doing. We all face inflation. The news is constantly saying, oh, we're in a recession, we're not in a recession. Gas prices are high one day, 10 cents lower the next day.

Myiesha: 34:49

Change the transition Just on a daily basis.

Kim: 34:51

What are some good, healthy steps we can take to improve our relationship or our thoughts about money?

Myiesha: 34:58

Just some different strategies. As far as thinking about the life you desire to live, let's start there, because I think that goes along with me and you. And once I identify the life that I desire to live, then I start to put some steps in place. So we make a plan. I always go back to planning, prioritizing, journaling, and then you create these goal sets that you can kinda check in. Often you can do that solely on your own. The key is, whenever you identify any issue, any concern that can affect any part of your life, you wanna immediately run to it and get the people that can either help you or you need to sit with yourself, spend time. You don't have to make a therapy appointment. You don't have to make an appointment with your financial counselor, but you need to sit and see what you can do and if you are then unsuccessful, reach out to those persons that can help in this issue. That's why they're there. So, not being afraid to ask, communicate your money concerns within your home, making sure you have family meetings discussing where we are right now, where we desire to be and what our plans are in the future, and then you just follow those steps, once you find those steps to provide success for you. You continue that and then you're looking for things that could be issues that you need to go back and kinda follow through on. So just sitting with it all the time and this is the management of you. Money involves you, your mental health involves you, so just trying to figure out a way that you can better manage you overall

Kim: 36:20

Okay, and before I have you just kinda go over how you can be reached any other final comments, maybe just a little checklist. If somebody's kinda on the edge thinking, do I need to make an appointment with somebody? What are some questions maybe they should ask themselves in terms of making that assessment right now.

Myiesha: 36:39

Yeah, is this issue that I'm concerned with or I'm presented with in my life affecting my overall functioning? And that could be your ability to think, your ability to behave, how you respond. Are you snapping, are you frustrated, are you just not feeling yourself? Or you can do an assessment. You know you can find that online, but I don't really trust Google therapy as often. But most therapists will have something on their website where you can go and see. Let me just do a check in and see and if I feel like I can't handle it on my own or I need assistance, I will definitely call and reach out and listen. It does not have to be large. It does not have to be anything that you feel like is, you know, huge, or it's life or death, or it's not a mental health crisis. Know, the therapist is not gonna put you in the hospital for reaching out and identifying your concerns, but we just want you to be better, we want you to live better, and so one of the ways primarily do that is having a check in with a counselor or mental health professional that can help you with that. Once your mental health is top tier, everything else will fall in place. But if you struggle in that area. Your life will show that all the time.

Kim: 37:42

Well, this has been awesome. How can our listeners reach you if they're interested in taking that step?

Myiesha: 37:47

Okay, zacharycounselingcom is my website, and Restore Counseling Works is the Instagram where you can find information of what is going on in the practice. As ZacharyCounselingcom, you can also enter the portal and ask a question, kind of like ask your therapist, and then I can identify and chat with you to see if this is something that you're willing to do or ready to do.

Kim: 38:06

Well, thank you, Myiesha, for coming to sit down and chat with me. I've learned a lot, definitely about myself, and these evening numbers in my bank account We'll have to have you come back in the future and maybe address some of these financial issues again.

Myiesha: 38:19

All right, thanks for having me.

Kim: 38:25

How you feel about money has a great impact on your money management skills. Here are a couple of tips to help you improve your overall financial life. First, understand your money mindset by examining your past present history with money. Examine your fears. Think about where they come from and take steps to try and overcome those fears. Consider how much money defines your image, and then think about your attitude toward budgeting. Not only do you hear me say budgeting is good over and over again, but you heard it from a licensed professional counselor today. Beware of keeping up with the Joneses. We don't have to have everything that our neighbors has. And then, finally, check out neighborsfcuorg for financial education to learn more on how to use the money you have, make the money you need and save the money you want. This document rhyme plays out. You stand to species for species. They can become species for themselves.