Have you ever considered what happens when a person re-enters society after being incarcerated, particularly from a financial perspective? Today's episode of Money Matters brings this often-overlooked issue to the forefront of our conversations. We're joined by Christie Cheramie, Aaron Hauser, and Demetricy Moore who bravely recount their personal experiences with financial management, banking, and technology before, during, and after their periods of incarceration. They give us a first-hand look at the importance of financial literacy amongst those who have been behind bars and shed light on the incredible work carried out by the Louisiana Parole Project.
The revolution in banking technology hasn't left anyone untouched, and our guests aren't an exception. They take us back to their younger days, sharing memories of their initial encounters with banking and how the digital era has transformed their financial practices. The conversation doesn't stop there - we also examine the financial world within the prison walls, understanding the intricacies of earning minimal wages and managing money while incarcerated. As we step beyond those walls, we learn about the significant hurdles faced by our guests when they attempted to re-establish themselves in the banking system, and how financial education made all the difference.
As we wrap up this insightful episode, we turn our focus to the financial trials and hardships that those who have served time often encounter. We discuss the essence of credit scores, budgeting, and investing, and the urgent need for financial education and support for those reintegrating into society. To close, we arm our listeners with some practical financial advice and resources for formerly incarcerated individuals, including setting financial goals, making a budget, and building an emergency fund, setting them on the pathway to financial independence. We're confident you'll find these stories impactful and the discussions illuminating, casting a light on a critical issue that deserves more attention. So, tune in, and let's talk Money Matters!
Welcome to Money Matters, the podcast that focuses on how to use the money you have, make the money you need and save the money you want – brought to you by Neighbors Federal Credit Union.
The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.
Have you ever considered what happens when a person re-enters society after being incarcerated, particularly from a financial perspective? Today's episode of Money Matters brings this often-overlooked issue to the forefront of our conversations. We're joined by Christie Cheramie, Aaron Hauser, and Demetricy Moore who bravely recount their personal experiences with financial management, banking, and technology before, during, and after their periods of incarceration. They give us a first-hand look at the importance of financial literacy amongst those who have been behind bars and shed light on the incredible work carried out by the Louisiana Parole Project.
The revolution in banking technology hasn't left anyone untouched, and our guests aren't an exception. They take us back to their younger days, sharing memories of their initial encounters with banking and how the digital era has transformed their financial practices. The conversation doesn't stop there - we also examine the financial world within the prison walls, understanding the intricacies of earning minimal wages and managing money while incarcerated. As we step beyond those walls, we learn about the significant hurdles faced by our guests when they attempted to re-establish themselves in the banking system, and how financial education made all the difference.
As we wrap up this insightful episode, we turn our focus to the financial trials and hardships that those who have served time often encounter. We discuss the essence of credit scores, budgeting, and investing, and the urgent need for financial education and support for those reintegrating into society. To close, we arm our listeners with some practical financial advice and resources for formerly incarcerated individuals, including setting financial goals, making a budget, and building an emergency fund, setting them on the pathway to financial independence. We're confident you'll find these stories impactful and the discussions illuminating, casting a light on a critical issue that deserves more attention. So, tune in, and let's talk Money Matters!
Welcome to Money Matters, the podcast that focuses on how to use the money you have, make the money you need and save the money you want – brought to you by Neighbors Federal Credit Union.
The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.
Welcome to Money Matters, the podcast that focuses on how to use the money you have, make the money you need and save the money you want. Now here is your host.
Speaker 2:Ms Kim Chapman, Welcome to another edition of Money Matters. I am your host, Kim Chapman. There are many reasons why formerly incarcerated individuals might end up back in prison. What is often overlooked is the role of financial literacy. It really has an impact on recidivism rates. A recent report found that in the US basically, we are already struggling in the Department of Financial Literacy. Only 57% of Americans are considered financial literate, and that data suggests that financial literacy rates among those who were recently incarcerated or currently incarcerated is much lower. So this puts these individuals at a severe disadvantage. My guests today are Christie Sheramy, Aaron Hauser and Demetri Seymour. They're going to tell us a little bit about their stories once we get started. So I want to start with you, Christie, because of course, my connection to you is through the Louisiana Parole Project, where I provide financial literacy classes for formerly incarcerated individuals. So tell us a little bit about the Louisiana Parole Project and the clients that I see. Basically, who are they, what is their background and how we got connected.
Speaker 1:So, yes, I work for the Louisiana Parole Project and we assist and help clients who have served 20-plus years, and what we do we're a reentry program and also a transitional program, so we offer programming such as financial management, as you have been committed for many for several years I mean I've been home almost now five and I've known you from the very beginning of my journey and those setting up bank accounts, learning how to use a cell phone technology is a major struggle, as well as understanding finances, and so we help and guide individuals that are returning citizens, to help them come and be updated on how the world has just changed throughout just several decades. And, of course, some people, even before prison, never even had an opportunity to be involved with banking, financial management because maybe their age of going into prison, so some people didn't even have that experience prior to prison. And so we're just a helping hand and with navigating and trying to help individuals overcome all of those barriers that they face once they come home.
Speaker 2:Okay, and how long were you incarcerated and how long have you been out since? You and I have, like I said, worked through the Louisiana Parole Project?
Speaker 1:So, at the age of 16, I went in and I served 25 years, and the day that I made my 25th year, I was released. And February 15th of 2020, 2019, I'm sorry. Well, I have been home. So I'm approaching my fifth year at this point.
Speaker 2:Okay, and so now we'll let Dmitriy I'm struggling with the name today, dmitriy tell us a little bit about your story, and then we'll have Aaron do the same, before we start talking about the finances.
Speaker 4:Okay, hi everybody. My name is Dmitriy Seymour and I'm recently released from prison. I've done 25 years in prison. I went in when I was 21 and I'm out now and I had a little bit about. I had a little bit of banking experience before I went in. I had a savings account, but it changed tremendously.
Speaker 2:Okay. We'll talk about that. In just a second We'll go ahead and let Aaron give a little bit about his history, and then we'll kind of dive in and talk about what experiences you had, if any, before being incarcerated.
Speaker 3:Hey, hello. My name is Aaron Hauser and I'm one of the formerly incarcerated. Also, I presently work as a reentry specialist with the Louisiana Parole Project. I was 17 years old when I was arrested and I served about 38 years, and right now I've been out in about two and a half years. I had a limited amount of banking exposure. I just lived with my mother. One of the things that she insisted was, when I was about 12, that she and I share a joint banking account, and that was really to ensure that, if something happened to her, at least I would have access to the money in the bank and I could write checks out, at least for a while. However, things that exist today, such as being able to pay for gas at the pump, online banking and all those things, did not exist, so it was one of those struggles that you had to you had to overcome upon getting out.
Speaker 2:All right. So you mentioned you actually had an account. What do you remember in terms, if anything, from that particular account? Do you remember actually going in with your mom setting up that account? Did you even know what a savings account was when she had you open the account or you were just doing what mom told you?
Speaker 3:We didn't have a savings account, but we had a checking account and so once a month we'd sit down and write the bills out, and I have to balance out the checkbook. She taught me how to write checks out when we went to the grocery store, had to fill it out and make sure I wrote it down in the checkbook. We would balance it and make sure we had enough money, and so we have to get out the little calculator back then and do everything with pen and paper and a calculator as completely different today.
Speaker 2:Well, and I have to ask you, you probably had more exposure than most individuals that I deal with on a day-to-day basis that have never been incarcerated. So at some point in time, have you found what you learned to be an advantage at all?
Speaker 3:Can you be a little more specific?
Speaker 2:In terms of just being familiar with what a check is and how to write a check. Because I could go to any given high school or maybe even college and put a blank check in front of some of these students and they would not have a clue as to what to do with it. And actually you know you're laughing, but sometimes you know it's a funny thing I'll give them a blank check and I'll say I won't give them instructions. I'll just say here's a check, write Ms Kimmer, check out for $15, and I'll have them sit there and just kind of look at me with blank stares and then they'll just put. You know, they'll put 15 where it says pay to the order of. They'll put my name where the dollar amount is. And so, just in terms of just having that little experience, did you find that it was beneficial to you now versus if you had never had an account before?
Speaker 3:Maybe I learned a little bit of that. You have to have the money in your account if you're going to buy something, otherwise you're going to write a hot check and that's going to end up costing you, because back then a NSF charge was like $20 and I'm sure it's a lot more today. But I love the fact today that you can do everything with your telephone. You don't have to balance your check, your checkbook, make sure the figures add up, because the mechanics are going to do that.
Speaker 2:What do you mean? You don't have to balance your check.
Speaker 3:It's going to do that for you. Your account. It's all done electronically. If you write out, if you charge something with your credit card that costs $100, that money is going to automatically be added up, so you're going to know what your balance is. You don't have to sit down with a pen and paper and figure it out, and that takes out the mistakes that you could possibly do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Technology definitely has taken out the pen and paper, but I will have to have a little cyber. I will have to talk a little bit about you balancing it yourself, but I'm not going to put you on the spot like that. So, demetrius, you said you didn't have any experience with banking before.
Speaker 4:Yes, I had a savings account.
Speaker 2:You had a savings account.
Speaker 4:I had a savings account. I actually got into banking when I got my first job at a hotel in a continental I'm originally from New Orleans I had to open up a bank account. Back then it was $100 to open up a bank account a savings account so I did that and I was putting money in the savings account. But my experience then as versus now, when I had to open up a bank account, I had to actually do it online. I was thinking I was going to the teller and doing all the paperwork. But that was like I'm like, well, I got to do this. I mean, I'm right here. So that was like adjustment for me.
Speaker 2:Okay, so back in the day it was basically upfront and in personal, versus today online. And so what do you remember of anything in terms of a savings account and you mentioned it was savings. Was there a reason that you had savings and not checking?
Speaker 4:Yeah, because I didn't want to go through writing checks. I'm like one of your students. I didn't want to go through the pain of writing checks because then you got to write the check and then you got to go on the side and the back of the checkbook and balance it out on it. That was just too much.
Speaker 2:Okay, and of course, christy, give us a little information about what, if any, experience you had or exposure to bank, to the banking industry.
Speaker 1:So, of course my experience was very limited, being so young, but of course, just observing my grandmother and how banking was for us in back in the day and I'm talking early 90s and late 80s, as I could remember her writing checks, always need to go to the bank, always make deposits with the teller and then so remembering that and observing her then, even though I didn't technically do it, I see the huge difference coming home and the changes that society has made throughout technology. So what people back in what I've seen when I was younger were doing with the paper, the paper checks. Today I'm doing everything online. I don't do checks, you know. Of course, I don't even have to go to the bank technically, unless I need to go through the ATM.
Speaker 1:So just how the generation has changed and how the world has evolved and has taken away from what it used to be not that it doesn't exist still, because there are still people who do that. She's still stuck in her ways and doing things the old way and would never probably do things how we're doing it today because of just how they haven't evolved with it and some people are just still there. But that was my experience, just observing what family was doing, and today doing it as an adult woman and having to do things is just quite different. And they still don't even understand how we're doing things today, so it's just like wow.
Speaker 2:And while it's very unique that of course, each of you all three of you have had some limited experience, I can definitely kind of share this with Sherry I'm sorry with Christie in terms of the clients that I see or that I work with on a weekly basis, that I usually survey the room before I start a class and I'll say how many of you have had banking experience, and for the majority of them it is zero, it is zilch, and so that's why I said for the rest of you, you probably have a little advantage that maybe you're not quite aware of, because I think it's completely different when you have individuals that have been incarcerated and because it was at such a young age, they may have never even been in a financial institution, let alone had a checking account, savings account.
Speaker 2:They may have heard of them, they may know what it is in theory, but at least you've kind of had that opportunity to experience opening an account, having it, learning some of the fundamentals, because the fundamentals haven't changed so much as the technology. So now I wanna kind of move it forward a little bit and talk about what money while you were incarcerated. So, first and foremost, what was it like? Did you have access to cash? Did you have access to any type of bank account when you were incarcerated or, better yet, maybe this would be a better question if you had accounts before you were incarcerated, what happened to them?
Speaker 4:Cash money coins that was contraband in prison and LCIW couldn't have it on our person Access to a bank account we had. So I've actually had a bank account while I was in prison. But to go back to your other question, the account that I had before I was incarcerated. I had the opportunity of closing my account out before I got arrested. So I had to close the account out because I needed the money to get a lawyer or whatever. But I had the opportunity of closing my bank account out.
Speaker 4:But, however, in prison we have what they call MA savings and we can save up to 25, we can save up how much? But we can't spend anything unless we have over $250 in it. But I was working for the Wharton Secretary at that time and she encouraged me to take all my money that I was getting from family and to open up an outside bank account, because at that time LCIW did allow us to open up an outside bank account. I was able to do that but I didn't have direct control of my money. Ma Banking Officer had control of my money so I was able to sign a paperwork in but to make the pods to make withdrawals, she had to do that for me. She had to go to the bank for me.
Speaker 2:And did your experience with that savings account help you understand what they were doing? Because I'd imagine maybe for other inmates it was a matter of just signing here and maybe verbalizing, but did you have complete understanding as to all the transactions that were going on back and forth with your outside account?
Speaker 4:Yes, because before they can make a transaction, we had to write out what you call the withdrawal. So what a withdrawal is? Is you withdrawing money out any account? So I had to do a withdrawal and that's like basically writing a check.
Speaker 4:So I believe that most inmates don't realize the close proximity it is to writing a withdrawal as a writing a check.
Speaker 4:So they will say, well, I don't have any banking experience, but if they think about the withdrawal process, they do have banking experience because they have experience in writing a check, because the bank, the withdrawal, is set up just like a oversized check, if you will. So not only did I have experience and they taught me because I sat down and look what's going on. So I had that opportunity where I had an inmate banking officer to sit down with me and explain everything. I was able to sit in our office and read the paperwork before I just signed it. So it's not like just here go some papers, just sign this. She was able to talk to me through the process. Every time you make a withdrawal or deposit, we're gonna fill out the sheet, you're gonna sit in the office, you're gonna do it and you're gonna send it to us and we're gonna give you the receipt and all that that's coming from, but my bank statement came to me.
Speaker 2:Okay, so that was actually a really good opportunity. Erin, what was your experience? Can you think back to what happened to your account in terms of the one that you had before you were incarcerated? And then, what was your experience with bank accounts, if any at all, while you were incarcerated?
Speaker 3:Well, the joint checking account that I had with my mother. I'm sure she just had complete access to it after I was incarcerated. But when I first went to being from Louisiana, our Department of Corrections in the early 80s worked like this you were eligible for an incentive pay, which in the early 80s was two cents an hour. One cent went into a prison savings account and the other one penny an hour that you earned went into your we used to call it a drawing account and so you could take that at the end of a week you've worked 40 hours. You got 40 cents that you could actually spend to buy the odorant with or something like that. Now, for the most part being in prison, you got your meals furnished for free and you got some limited clothes and you got toothbrush, toothpaste, eraser, but the rest of the things you had to buy yourself, which would include, if you were lucky enough to have a small radio like back then it was a Walkman. If you had a Walkman you had to buy headphones for it or battery.
Speaker 2:You might have these planes how to listen to what a Walkman is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's just a little, real little small AM FM radio about the size of a pack of cigarettes, and you hooked your headphones up to it and you were able to just have a little bit of escape time and listen to whatever music you wanted to listen to. But you had to learn. You had to, you really had to learn how to budget the few cents a week that you actually earned, and so that taught me that today, 40 years later, I'm able to get by with a lot less than what I might have thought I could. That would take to get by.
Speaker 2:So were you able to have an account outside of the penal system, or was it only inside the penal system?
Speaker 3:You can't have one outside the penal system. But for me, making well, by the time I left, almost 40 years later, I earned 20 cents an hour, which translated into only $8 a week, and so on $8 a week. You live mostly hand to mouth. You have to decide with that $8 a week. Look, do you want to call your family? Spend $4 to make one telephone call? Spend 15 minutes talking with them? Do you want to buy a stick of deodorant? Do you want to buy some batteries? So you're really limited as to how much money you have to play with.
Speaker 2:Sounds like you were developing budgeting skills without knowing it. Yes, Yep you do.
Speaker 3:It does teach you to do that.
Speaker 2:And so did you have any hands-on experience, similar to Demetrius, in terms of them showing you how to fill out a withdrawal slip or do any of those tasks?
Speaker 3:You do. For a number of years I bought hobby craft supplies and I took the money that I made with the hobby craft and slowly bought more tools, more supplies and you just kind of learned how to manage budget. But spending a few dollars, $10, $50, $100 in prison is nothing like out here in the real world, where your bills can amount to thousands of dollars, and so it's a completely different world out here than what it was in prison.
Speaker 2:Okay, and so, of course, as I started off in my statement, you know, financial literacy. Only 57% of Americans consider themselves financial literate. There are still states that don't teach financial literacy or don't make it a requirement. Louisiana just got on the bandwagon, and so I can imagine if we're not requiring it for our students, for our citizens, you know what? Were there any requirements in terms of financial education inside of the penal system?
Speaker 4:Recently, before I was released, they started doing a Dave Ramsey class. So, but before that it was no, no financial literacy in a class. I mean no financial literacy in a prison. Like you had to, like Aaron said, budget what you got, because you got money coming from family. My family was sending me $100 a month, so I had to budget that $100 a month. I had to decide okay, I'm going to spend $25 a week at the canteen, I'm going to do this.
Speaker 4:So, if nothing else, we learn budgeting skills in prison. You know, we didn't think that we were learning it, but now that I'm out here, you know it's like, okay, what's the need and what's the want? You know, because we are being so deprived of a lot of stuff being in prison, like we want to come home and just buy everything. But that's not feasible in a real world. You cannot just buy everything because you didn't have it for 25 years. So that's a discipline that the parole project has taught us. Also, you know we show need and we show want. You may want that shirt, but do you really need it?
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 2:So again some form of financial literacy, but just maybe not under the official title financial literacy, because, again, a lot of what I have to teach or work with individuals is kind of learning how does distinguish between a need and a one in terms of budgeting?
Speaker 2:You know, we sometimes cannot have it all, so we have to make those decisions. Maybe I can get this now and maybe I can save a little bit for later, but I do want to keep the focus on financial literacy, or maybe should we call it pre-entry because reentry? Because I do know that I've worked in several different penal systems and for some of them I was under the impression that it was a requirement because I would, you know, get a call and was invited to come in as a guest speaker, and these were individuals that were getting ready to be released, generally within maybe 90 days or so, and so, if nothing else, they were exposed to a presentation where I talk about the basics of banking. What a bank account is, you know, really, really generic. What is your experience, christy, and in terms of your knowledge, what does reentry classes? Before inmates are released, what are they exposed to?
Speaker 1:So I remember taking my pre-release prior to our 2016 historical flood, when we were relocated from LCIW and then everything was done by a book and I remember I can't really remember the lady's name, but she was young and she would bring in individuals to the LCIW site and have guest speakers every time. We would have class once a week and I remember there was a budgeting class. There was a financial class that was actually taught, but, of course, sitting in the room with over a hundred individuals people talking, it's kind of hard to hear and you're given handouts and just. But I was made aware of what budgeting was. I don't think that we really understand and associate or able to compare our experiences in prison opposed to now, and because people coming home say, oh, I never was exposed to that, but we actually were in a sense, and it's kind of hard just to kind of identify that until someone actually points it out, as we have done today, I think we all pretty much identify with that. And so, yes, budgeting, especially when someone doesn't have family support, financial means only living off of incentive wages. You learn to make do with what you have. You really don't have much of a choice, especially for the less fortunate, but I was exposed to it.
Speaker 1:But, to be honest, to think back to 2016, when I was taken before the 2016 flood and taken those pre-release classes early on, it's very vague, but I know that it exists, coming, moving, you know, fast forwarding. I don't know and that's why you know. Demetricy, I think, was the best one to answer, because I've been gone for five years, almost five years, and before I left, there was nothing there, there was nothing offered and it's a we had a disadvantage because everyone was relocated, uprooted from the actual location. So there was a lot of things that actually were taken away and are slowly being now implemented and we're talking almost five years later. As the Dave, as she's mentioned, with Dave Ramsey, that wasn't even an existence when I was there, when I had taken pre-release.
Speaker 2:And so for Demetricy and for Erin, thinking back to when you were released and basically faced with a whole new environment, what knowledge did you have in terms of money? What was it like? What struggles did you encounter? I know definitely you had the advantage of the parole project. What did they expose you to? Did you find that it was enough? What were the things that you think were missing?
Speaker 3:For me, I learned better like hands-on experience. For example, when I was in school, let's say in the ninth grade, I had to learn the all the elements, the table elements, what their atomic symbols were, the weights and things. I had to actually memorize those. And while I was in prison you could have told me anything about financial management, but I lived from hand to mouth and so all those things were just so abstract that telling me wouldn't go and do any good. I had to actually have money and have to actually experience these different budgets, make my own budget and stuff. I could just sit down and pretend I've got well income $1,000 a month or $5,000 or whatever it is but until I actually could experience myself it just didn't seem to really take hold in you. And I think a lot of guys were like that. A lot of guys in prison would have said what do I need to know about a budget, for I don't have any money, I didn't do any good and they'll forget about it.
Speaker 2:And so, once you were released, if you can remember how long was it before you opened your first bank account and what were the challenges that you faced?
Speaker 3:Well, within a few days, within a few days, I had my first bank account opened up. Actually, Ms Cheromey was the first one to help me open my bank account. I got one, and one of the first problems I had was doing mobile banking and as part of a two step verification authorization process for your account, they send you a little text message and they ask you to enter in this code to make sure that it's the right person that's accessing this account. And the number I entered I didn't know until later was the number that the text message was coming from. And so it told me enter in this like six digit number. And so I was entering that number, and so it told a little line, a little red line turned around a little square, and I did it again.
Speaker 3:And then I did it again and I'm like I don't know what's wrong. And then it just locked my account out. And I'm like why is it locked my account out? And then it wasn't until I actually went to the bank and saw the whole little process that I was entering in the wrong number each time. So all these things are new to people that have been incarcerated for a long time. You just don't know. You don't have to fill up gas, you don't have to pay for gas at a gas pump with your credit card or your debit card or those type of things.
Speaker 2:Devin interesting. What was your experience upon being released in terms of opening an account and what type of barriers or issues that you encounter with money?
Speaker 4:My experience was I had to transfer an account because I already had a banking account open. So I had to close that account for the first, because I never had assets to that and I didn't want any, so I closed that out. And again, christy was the first one to help me transfer mobile issues, because I did it on the phone and delayed it. We went in a bank actually and we still could not and I'm like why can't I just go to the teller? I mean, I have the money, it's right here and I'm like I'm walking around with all this money on me because I saved my stimulus check and while I was in there. So I'm like I don't want to do this.
Speaker 4:So it was the mobile issue. It was the change in dynamics and technology that was really a challenge for me. But opening up account and being familiar with the banking system was like it was kind of easy per se and because mentally it's a twofold thing when you're dealing with an incarcerated person, especially one with a life sentence, because what I need to save for, so mentally I had to break down that mentally, like I'm going home one day, so I need to save. So that prompted me to open up a bank account and to get the advice I was getting from the warden secretary at the time that pushed me to open up a bank account. Like you're not going to be here for the rest of your life, you need to start thinking about saving, because when you get out, there's nobody going to be there, like you need money to get out. So that was in terms. That was the only thing that I seen was the technology changing, the changing technology.
Speaker 2:Okay, what are some things? If you had to do, basically, a reentry class on lower again, because I do the class every other week. It's 90 minutes. I get 90 minutes to sit down with individuals. Some of them have been incarcerated for 60 years. So when Aaron was saying, you know he was thinking about NSF checks and things that are a little bit outdated in terms of now. 90 minutes is nothing. It's like a drop in the bucket in terms of me trying to bring you up to speed on what a bank even is, what the services are, how they function, and then there's the technology. So what are some key things that you think would be extremely important to provide to incarcerated individuals while they're incarcerated and definitely upon release? That would make this transition smoother.
Speaker 4:For me personally, I think you just have to make it relatable. You know, you come in and say write a check. I don't know how to write one, but if you say write this withdrawal out and then match the withdrawal with the check, they're going to actually it's going to click. Because it's not clicking when you say have you had any information or any dealings with banks? No, I don't, but you have an inmate banking officer, so your incentive pay is actually going in a bank.
Speaker 4:So once you make it relatable, associate the things just associate the inmate banking with the bank, then I think it's going to click for them. And I think because if somebody would have did that for me and they need to have more financial, some more financial classes, because just that in that reentry that's sitting in that 90 minute, that's not enough, it's not.
Speaker 1:But the first thing you can do is to ease the tension of your 90 minutes, is to make it relatable first, Okay, christy, I also would like to add that most people they're visual, they learn by doing things and they learn by seeing and having that relation and being able to identify and compare what a withdrawal is opposed to any, compared to a check, and being able to see that and then they start making the connections and then they start to see, oh well, yeah, I did have that experience.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I was exposed to that, but it's just not being able to visualize the comparison between the two. So if there was any way to make it readily available for someone to be able to be shown that, rather than just being told, so they can actually see it and make the connection, I think it would be a lot easier, not to say that it would make the transition so much easier, because technology is yet another story.
Speaker 2:And it's constantly changing. And, of course, financial literacy or education goes beyond just a checking account and a savings account. There's credit, there's investments. What experience, if any, have you had in those areas since you've been released?
Speaker 1:Since I've been home especially. I mean it's been a journey. It's been a lot of work, a lot of blood, sweat and tears, but I've been able to achieve certain goals. First, building my credit, budgeting my money. Within two and a half years of being home, I was approved for a loan to buy a house, me and my fiance and so, barely home two and a half years, I had created myself a nest egg. It was important. We've learned to budget and live with very little for so long that coming home and wanting just to go splurge money wasn't, it wasn't in the cards for me. I already knew what I desired eventually for my life and what work I was going to need to put off into that. I believe.
Speaker 1:Coming home and having you, especially being able to bring those things to light, coming through your class, making me aware of what's important, did I understand it then? Of course I didn't. I had to go and grow through the experience. You gave me the tools that I needed. You gave me the knowledge that one needed coming home, but I had to put it into effect and once it started taking effect in my life, I started seeing. Then I seen growth. I was able to budget, I was able to start creating and working towards my credit.
Speaker 1:It blows me away where I am today. It does I'm still. I don't think that you ever get over the fact that it's just such a humbling feeling to be able to, because what your anticipations are and your expectations, those things change, especially coming home after so long and not knowing, but knowing that there is will in me, there is fight. I'm going to rise above whatever circumstances and having people like yourself, like the parole project, to help me understand and start navigating those things. I had never paid a bill in my life and now I got bills coming off the ears and it's lots of experience on the job experience.
Speaker 1:It's like okay, but the more I get to experience and travel the journeys with other individuals, it's also helping me to. It's enriching my life as well, because through their experience I'm learning certain things, because technology all of that changes. You want people to understand the importance of budgeting. You want to be able to share your experiences with them so they too can have that same mindset. Don't just come home and spend all your dog on money wasting it away. Start investing in it. Start building your credit.
Speaker 1:It took me two years to have residential history, employment history and credit history. So right into my second year I knew that those were the things that I needed, and especially budgeting, to take that next step in my life to becoming a homeowner. But it took that time. It took that effort and that sacrifice to saving money to get to where you wanted to be, and so it's just. But it's still. Even going into my fifth year of being home, I'm still learning. I'm still having to budget. It's gonna be for the rest of my life. It doesn't stop just because I've reached this particular goal. It doesn't stop. Then you have a car, then you have that, and you just I mean these are moments that I prayed for. These are good problems to have, so I'm excited about having it. You did right.
Speaker 2:So, what type of mistakes have you encountered, what type of mistakes have you made, each of you, that basically you've learned from in terms of finances?
Speaker 4:For me, I've learned being out six months I've learned that it's so much out there and one time my bank account I ain't gonna say hack, but they put a charge on that that I ignored. And then it started being bigger charges and before long I had like a hundred and something dollars in my account. I'm like where's my money? So I had to go back, but they wound up refunding it all. But it was just one of those things that I know that I had to stay vigilant on and not just trust the system.
Speaker 4:Okay, so you were a victim of fraud and didn't realize it at first, and I'm always mindful of that, because when I was in prison I was a victim of identity theft, so that was a whole nother thing that I had to clear up before I even started my journey. So six months in, I'm like okay, I know the importance of your credit score. I know I don't want going debt to live, so I don't want all these credit cards, so I just started with a bank security card, you know, with my little small limit. That's good for me. So I'm learning that I never I haven't gone into the investing yet, but I think that's coming. I don't want to rush into anything but paying bills. I have to budget my money because now I have bills, I have rent, I have cable, I have lights and I'm like I didn't have all that in prison. I just show up and the lights come on. But it's like Chris said, it's a good problem to have. I'm learning how to live.
Speaker 2:I might have to get you all to be guest speakers at my workshop because, when I say budget, it's a dirty word and people are really, really resistant. But when I hear each of you talk about a budget and the smiles on your faces and how you welcome it, it's like you're a rare breed of people. Yes, erin, what about you? What mistakes have you made with money? What have you learned since you've been out?
Speaker 3:Well, I know, as far as budgeting, there's one major, one big store that if you go in it, you won't know you needed that many things, unless you go in there and start looking around and you'll find out oh, I need this, I need that, and I have stuff in my apartment today that I was sure I was gonna need it and it was on sale and I got it and I still haven't used it.
Speaker 3:But for the most part, I've never really made any really what I would consider bad mistakes. I do things now from well. I went from having nothing no bank account, anything while I was in prison to now I have a checking account, I have a savings account, I have several credit cards that I use faithfully to show that I'm responsible and I can use them properly. I've got an IRA. I've learned what a credit score is. I check my credit scores every day on the different apps that I have on my telephone, and so I try to be as much of a citizen as possible and take advantage of these different things, like paying my bills on time, that I didn't have an opportunity to do in my previous life.
Speaker 2:Is there anything that you believe financial institutions can do differently or better to make the transition smoother?
Speaker 4:Go back to the teller. Go back to the teller. It's old, it's mobile banking, it's a headache, but yeah, but otherwise I think it's as smooth. As technology is concerning, but I don't. I mean I think it should be more classes, more financial help out there, because we have a younger generation coming up and a younger generation I equate to a generation of people that's incarcerated because we both coming up and we don't know. It's two different worlds being incarcerated and then coming and then growing up and not really having an understanding and a value of money. So I think people really need to know what the value of money is, how to value that.
Speaker 1:Of course I don't think we'll ever go back to what we used to be, but I remember before COVID, when I set my bank account up, I was actually able to go inside the institution and that individual helped me and I was able to bypass all of the red tape and the bears of the doing it online myself.
Speaker 1:Because I noticed from the when I went in before COVID and that person helped me and then us doing it online, they want you to prove your identity, you have to upload the ID card and you have to send it and it becomes challenging for people who just don't know and I can't fault somebody for something they just don't know.
Speaker 1:But I understand too that technology is stripping away those opportunities for that one-on-one and but I think it is we're at a disadvantage by someone actually going in and sitting down, especially for someone who has aged 30, 40, 50 years in. They don't understand what's going on because the world has drastically changed. I just I'm hopeful that we could at least have that back in place and allow someone to actually see the process from the beginning to end and understand it, rather than doing it from their phone or from another device and actually having to do all of this and not quite understanding what's happening, because they can't really connect all the pieces this early on. It's like something you show but it starts to make sense later because there's so many things that you're having to do and so. But even if it was implemented before release and the institution actually shows this is what the world has become and introducing them to that before release. So this is, I think, important. That needs to be implemented in the pre-release programs, but more in depth so they can understand technology.
Speaker 2:And have another question how can individuals that are incarcerated, how can their family or their support system help them out before they're released and after they're released, in terms of becoming acclimated with finances? Is there anything you think that your support system could have done while you were incarcerated, or what have they been able to add value to in terms of helping you with your finances now that you're out?
Speaker 4:I think they, for one, probably not helping with finances but helping build credit, because I didn't know that I could have been on one of my family members that paid their credit card, that I could have been on their credit card as an authorized user as an authorized user and it would have helped my credit score, but we don't have a credit score coming out. So I think that's one thing that needs to be. People need to know about cause people really don't know about that. And when you talk about putting my name as an authorized user in my family, mine or she gonna use my. I'm not trying to use it, I'm just trying to build my credit. Before I was able to build my own credit up. You know, at least have that.
Speaker 2:Aaron, what about you?
Speaker 3:It might not be that popular among some people, but I think that a lot of these programs that are offered in prison are optional and they need to be mandatory and the prison actually needs to show people how technology has changed. And although you can't have legally, you can't inmates can't have cell phones in prisons. They could incorporate some type of a program which actually shows offenders how cell phones are used in banking and paying bills and things like that, and they don't do it. That would have been a tremendous help, I think, to a lot of people before they're released, because it's really twofold they have to learn how to use a cell phone, the internet, and they have to learn the basics of money management.
Speaker 2:So and I'm gonna find a question what would be your advice for individuals that are now recently released from the penal system in terms of getting into banking, establishing credit, going to workshops, learning more about money? What piece of advice would you give them? What do you think would be the most important thing that they need to do or learn so that they can be successful? As you guys, we've got IRAs, homeowners, bank account owners. You guys are killing it, doing all of it.
Speaker 4:I think that they should. The advice I would give them is one of my biggest things is if I stop learning, I stop growing. So you may not think that you need it, but everybody need to learn about their finances to take it seriously.
Speaker 3:Learn. If you can learn the basics of using your telephone, then you've got access to things like YouTube and you can find anything out that you want. Start learning, watching videos, read all those things, or just. It's an unlimited source of information. Take advantage of it. If you didn't go to prison, you learned all these things one little baby step at a time. If you went to prison for a number of years and you were released, you have to learn all these things. You have to take big, giant steps, and so that's what you have to do. You have to learn all these different things, and you got to take the time and devote to this process.
Speaker 1:Yes, never limit yourself. Never limit yourself to learning what technology has become, what the world has become, and don't be fearful to step off into that, because in order to get anywhere in your life, you're gonna have to start somewhere, and it's gonna start by educating yourself, taking time out to invest in you. You have to invest in you. If you don't invest in you, no one else will.
Speaker 2:Well, christy, demetrize and Erin, I thank you all for coming and sharing your story. I think it's really, really useful because, again, we struggle just to understand financial education and we've never been incarcerated, so I can you know. I wanted to bring to the table and bring light to the struggles that you guys are facing in terms of looking at bank accounts, dealing with your credit, as you mentioned before, not having a credit score, and I'm actually glad that you mentioned a part about the fraud, because that's one of the things that I always teach in the class. You know, you think I've been in here for 30 years. My credit is zero, it's perfect, but there's identity theft or then there are mistakes, because one out every five credit report has a mistake. So I think there's a lot to be learned and that there is hope, definitely, and there are resources. So thank you guys for coming.
Speaker 4:Thank you, you're welcome, thank you for having us, thank you. Thank you for having us, thank you for having us, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2:Reintegrating into society after a period of incarceration can present a unique set of financial challenges. Here are some financial tips to help individuals you may know who've been formerly incarcerated. Start by setting short and long-term financial goals that include establishing a budget and an emergency fund. Do your research you wanna make sure you find the right financial institution to service not just your current needs, but also your potential future banking needs. Understand your banking disclosures this can help you avoid costly or unexpected fees. Become familiar with red flags that can alert you to potential scams and pitfalls. And then look for opportunities to attend financial workshops, as they can be a building block for you understanding money, reduce stress and build your confidence. And finally, check out neighborsfcuorg for slash financial education to learn more on how to use the money you have, make the money you need and save the money you want. Ετε.