When Your Kid Says “Put The Bats In The Wall” And She’s Right

A bridge, a problem, and a nine-year-old’s bright idea—this is how a complex highway project turned into a blueprint for kinder infrastructure. We sit down with NCDOT Resident Engineer Kenny McCord to trace the story of an I-40 bridge in the Pigeon River Gorge where a required bat habitat became a breakthrough: instead of bolting on a bulky bat box that complicates emergency repairs, the team sculpted hidden roosts directly into a retaining wall. The spark came from Kenny’s daughter, Harper, whose simple question—why not put the bats in the wall—opened a path for biologists, builders, and designers to collaborate on something elegant and practical.

Kenny takes us inside the CMGC approach that brought the contractor to the table early, cutting red tape and surfacing constructability insights before mistakes got expensive. We talk gantry cranes for high-span beam setting, the art and science of Boulderscape to create natural-looking walls, and how recycled bridge materials became part of a safe, durable bat habitat tailored to real drop distances and microclimates. Along the way, we connect the dots to a larger wildlife strategy in the gorge: fencing that guides elk, deer, and hogs to underpasses, reducing collisions and protecting drivers.

This conversation blends engineering with empathy—roads that move people efficiently while leaving space for animals to live. It’s a case study in how public works can be smarter, safer, and more humane when we invite diverse voices to the table and treat constraints as creative fuel. If you’re curious about wildlife-friendly design, infrastructure innovation, or the power of a child’s perspective to unlock better choices, you’ll come away with ideas worth sharing.

If this story moved you, follow and subscribe, share it with a friend who loves smart design, and leave a quick review to help more people find the show. What everyday fix would you reimagine with wildlife in mind?

Transcript

Live Show Kickoff & Local Updates

SPEAKER_02 0:00

The George Real Estate Group Radio broadcast is celebrating 10 years on WHKP. The George Real Estate Group is celebrating 10 years on the radio live every Thursday morning at 10.05 on WHKP 107.7 FM and AM 1450, and streaming online at WHKP.com. Each Friday morning at 8.45, the George Real Estate Group presents the Hometown Hero Award to someone in our community who goes above and beyond to make our hometown a better place to live. Here's this week's Hometown Hero Show. It's 8 45 on Friday morning. And that is every Friday morning when we get together with Noah George from the George Real Estate Group. And uh Noah puts the bill for this program, and I'm so glad he does. Thank you, Noah. It's our hometown hero show. Let's see. We don't have you there. Try the button on the top right there. There we go. There's now. There he is.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

It's a live radio show.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

And you came in on two wheels, like you said.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

This is proof that it's a live radio show. But traveled, traveled with alert. There were some challenges. I don't know what was going on on King Street, downtown Hendersonville, right now. There's a number of uh fire uh you know trucks and police, and hopefully and pray for prayerfully, everybody's okay there. Yeah, yeah. Um, but we made it here on time.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

I'm glad you did.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

And uh before we get going, I gotta say happy birthday, Randy.

Market Snapshot & Open House Plugs

SPEAKER_02 1:43

Thank you. Thank you very much. I I I appreciate that. I've been enjoying uh a lot of greetings and and and uh and uh wishes here this morning. So thank you for adding to it.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

That's awesome, and again, thankful for you. And it and so we're thankful to be here. It is a privilege and honor to sponsor the Hometown Hero series uh every Friday morning uh you know after at 8 45. And you know, it's it's amazing the the men and women and stories we get to hear each week, and uh and today's no exception. I I will say uh you know from a real estate perspective, everybody's curious about what's going on. There's a lot of news and there's a lot of markets around the country that are having challenges, but our market here uh continues to hold. In fact, uh we had about a 30 percent drop in new listings in January, which I suspect was because of the snow and the ice, uh, which causes uh the low inventory uh which we actually maintain the same demand. So the it's an interesting dynamic where our our demand is uh uh sustaining. We actually last year we had a 10 percent increase uh in uh single family and condos and townhomes sold in Henderson County. So it's an interesting dynamic. We have less inventory that that means that I mean our market is steady, it's holding, uh prices are holding. I I will say days on markets are taking a little bit longer, but it I mean the sky is not falling here. And and in fact, we had one of our busiest Januaries uh and and it's gonna continue to uh it's gonna continue to keep going.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

Mortgage rates are good too.

Meet Today’s Hometown Hero

SPEAKER_01 3:13

They actually have been dropping, which is amazing. Um we have some open houses this weekend I need to share about. We have an open house Saturday, 83 Arlington up in Asheville from 10 a.m. to noon tomorrow on Valentine's Day. And then Sunday, 2 to 4, at 89 Victoria Park and in Hendersonville. Both of those are on our Facebook and Instagram. You can follow us on that. And and of course, just grateful to be here sponsoring the Hometown Heroes Series.

Introducing NCDOT’s Kenny McCord

SPEAKER_02 3:37

Well, it's good to have you here. And uh today we've uh found a friend of nature to salute. Um this came our way from uh uh David Uchiyama, who's uh public information officer locally for the North Carolina Department of Transportation, and the uh DOT's replacing some bridges on the uh the uh I-40 section in Pigeon River, uh the one that was damaged so much. These bridge replacements were already underway when Helene came and and they continue, and they are about to have to destroy a bridge. Well, I tell you what, let's listen to Kenny McCourt, who is a resident engineer with a DOT. He has got a great story for us up next. We're talking with North Carolina Department of Transportation resident engineer Kenny McCord. And Kenny, uh I'm just looking forward to talking to you this morning uh about uh about being a friend of nature. But before we get started, I just want to say hats off to the uh North Carolina Department of Transportation for taking such good care of us and our roads. And uh you you guys have had weekend after weekend of working around the clock and scraping ice and snow and all kinds of wind and cold, and we laid in a warm bed and and we're grateful. I just wanted to say that. How are you, Kenny?

SPEAKER_00 5:00

I I'm good, man. The hits keep coming, but that's just part of what we do. It's in our nature. The hits keep coming weekend after weekend. We adapt and we overcome. That's a that's 100% what we do with the DOT.

Inside The I-40 Gorge Bridge Project

SPEAKER_02 5:13

We wanted to chat with you, uh Kenny. You are a resident engineer working on replacing a bridge in the uh Pigeon River Gorge on I-40, hit uh exit 15 there. Now, this is not part of the restoration of where the damage was done during Halene. This was a project already undergoing before Helene, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:36

Yes, sir. It's it's actually a unique project because it's a state funded, it's a CMGC, so it's it's one of the first CMGCs that we've actually did for the state of North Carolina, and it's uh it's a unique contract because it's where we bring in the contractor early and they help in the design process, and it's supposed to streamline the way that we're actually uh building these bridges because they have input on the design. Because a lot of times we go back and forth about that's not you can't build that, you know, that's gonna cost more money. But if they're part of the design process, this is your design too. So we kind of both own a little bit in the actual way this bridge is designed and constructed. Keywitt construction is is is a really large contractor in the United States, and uh we've had the privilege of working with those guys. We were actually replacing five different bridges out there in the I-40 gorge, and these are the last of the two. The largest is ones that people probably know the most about is the one that goes over the pigeon river. We call it the high bridge, it's right there at exit 15. So um, but yeah, we're probably we got over half half of the bridge is already traffic turned on the new alignment, and we're working on setting the beams actually next week. So hopefully in the near future, you probably if you've been through that little area, you probably see another thing first of its kind. We're using something called a Gantry crane out there to set the beams because we had you know problems being able to set an actual traditional crane up and have enough lift power to lift those beams up and place them on the bridge because it sits so high. So this this thing's unique all the way around.

The Bat Habitat Challenge

SPEAKER_02 7:08

Sounds like it. And and one of the things that uh y'all run into there while working on replacing a bridge is that you found out you were gonna have to uh replace a home for some bats, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:22

Part of our permit process, and I don't know if people understand, a lot of our our bridges in the western, you know, North Carolina mountains, and I didn't believe it until I seen it, is is they're actually the in between the bridge construction joints, and you gotta have the joints in the bridge because that's the way the contract heats up, it expands, it contracts. So it's one of those things that you've got to have these joints in the bridges. Well, this bridge has a design where there's not as many crevices for these bats to thrive in. Well, in the permitting process, one of our DOT requirements it was gonna be to put in a bat roost that hung underneath the bridge. It was gonna accommodate about approximately twenty one cubic feet of habitat for bats when we're through. Well, in in lots of meetings, we had some discussion about you know what all this looks like, right? And we were gonna have to get this thing fabricated in New Mexico, and it was a pretty expensive unit and get it delivered up here, and then then try to figure out how to fasten it to the bridge. Well, that's all fine and dandy until you get ready to do, like if there's a blowout on the bridge, you gotta make an emergency repair. Well, now you're in a fix because now you're gonna have to figure out how to get these bats removed, and you know, depending on what time of the year it may be full of bats. What do you do? Yeah. Um, and you can't really do any hydro demolition for for doing these fast repairs on the bridges that you know sometimes we do, you see, with latex overlays or just normal pothole repair or whatever. But it's just I had an old bridge engineer look at me after one of the meetings. He said, figure out how to relocate the bat box. And that's kind of how this story starts.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

Figure it out. Okay. Well, let's bring your daughter on board now.

Harper’s Idea Changes The Plan

From Sketch To Approval

Sculpting Hidden Roosts With Boulderscape

SPEAKER_00 9:03

Her name is Harper, right? Yeah, HG. She's she's very important to me, and she's an influence. She's a nine-year-old little girl that's got all kinds of heart and spirit for animals, and you know, she's always told me she wants to be a vet, and I've always tried to steer away from that. Not not that it's a bad career, it's just her heart's so big, I don't know if she could handle some of the some of the situations. Yes, situations you run into. So we were kind of sitting around the table one night, and uh we we kind of watch Animal Planet, and she knows a lot about it while we're eating dinner, and she kind of saw, looked over my shoulder and saw me sketching something up, and we you know, and I put it on a bat episode of so we're watching about bats, learn about their habitat, so I kind of get a little feel for it. Well, I I knew there was a retaining wall that's uh part of the bridge abutment that we were gonna have to give an architectural finish. Um, due to Helene, uh it washed out a lot of the Pigeon River, like the banks along it. So you were able to see this wall a lot better. So we kind of agreed that we're gonna have to give it an architectural finish. Um, I don't know if if people have probably seen some of these walls we've been building here in uh Division 14. It's called Boulderscape, and it's kind of a way of call covering up these soil nail walls, these temporary walls that we put in to become permanent once we add a facer wall. Um, this boulderscape, these guys actually fly out of California and they sculpt the walls. Well, I had a wall that I was gonna do that on, and my little girl looked me straight in the face and goes, Dad, just put the bats in the wall, and I don't know why. It just clicked. And when it did, I thought, boy, I'm gonna sound crazy walking into this next meeting and say this. But so, but I did I did, of course, you're gonna do your research, and I took that sketch and put it in AI so I could have something to actually present, right? And uh we invited uh Fish and Wildlife, came in, Kiwit was great to work with because they were they were you know kind of open to the idea it being the first in the United States that we know about because when I called Boulderscape, they were like, This is a great idea. We put they put swallow nests out in California on the bridges for some of the swallows to dis to to roost in, you know, when they build their new bridges, but they said they've never put in a bat habitat. Um so we called up Fisher Wildlife, invited them to a meeting, and kind of gave them the idea, and we just started running with it. And it started evolving to where you know normal drop for a bat is anywhere from 15 to 25 feet. That wall just happens to be 15 to 25 feet. For anybody who knows what a soldier pot wall, it's these big H piles. It's built into the retainer wall. They almost leave a little overhang that almost made a natural place to sculpt out these roosts. Um we we built ones that have different sizes, the crevices are different sizes, lengths. We actually used recycle material off the bridge, old deck drains, uh, some of the extra leftover bridge material that we incorporated into this wall, and the guys from Boulderscape come out and carved it in to where you can't even see them. They're hidden in there. So when uh Boulderscape flew out from California to, you know, to take this idea and run with it, uh, we had wildlife. I brought my little girl out there so she could actually see that there are biologists. You know, we they studied, you know, how to you know make us good neighbors when we're building these roadways to make sure that we have a place when we're done, the animals can thrive. Um it kind of tied right in this project already because it's already this corridor um through the I-40 gorge, we're actually adding wildlife fencing. So if anybody's been through there recently and seen the the mesh fencing that runs all the way down that corridor, it's to prevent the deers, the the wild hogs, the elk, the turkeys, and everything from getting out into the road, you know, and and prevent um and making them channel them to the areas that go underneath the bridge for safe passage. So tying this bat roost idea in with this project just seemed like the right thing.

SPEAKER_02 13:03

Yeah, yeah, it does. It really does. Well, uh this could go viral, you know, Kenny.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Yeah, my little girl seems to think that we're already should be signing signatures if we go out in public. She's uh she's already a big deal in my heart, but uh after this, she might be a bigger deal.

SPEAKER_02 13:20

Of course, of course. Well, we just wanted to highlight this great accomplishment and the way uh animal loving child looks at a situation and came up with that great answer. That's just fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

Just put it in the wall, Dad. And I was like, man, if I could have just thought of that, it'd have been great. But it's it it's it's just one of those things to be able to work on something with your little girl. Yeah. Something's gonna be there 50 to 60 years, you know. It's it's kind of a crazy idea that we might have created something that was the first in the United States.

SPEAKER_02 13:50

That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

And it's one of these things that people are gonna see this, and we hope it is something that, you know, taking it taking it, taking it to the next level here in uh Division 14.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

All right. Uh Kenny McCourt, North Carolina DOT resident engineer. And Harper, we thank you so much. And uh thanks to everything you guys at and gals at DOT do for us. We want to salute you today. Have a great weekend. You too, sir. Have a good day. Yes, we do. That's uh fantastic program. And uh we've got about one minute to remind everybody, Noah, where you are at uh the George Real Estate Group and how to get in touch with you.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

We're we're again we're so thankful to sponsor the Hometown Hero Series, and and again, um we're thankful for what Kenny and and and the DOT and everything that they're doing. Um but the George Real Estate Group, we're located in Flat Rock. We serve all of Western North Carolina and the upstate. You can call us directly at 828-393-0134. You can find us online at realestatebygreg.com. We have two open houses this weekend. You can find us on social media, but just grateful to serve the community through real estate.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

And as you say many, many times, real estate happens around life.

Wildlife Corridors And Fencing

SPEAKER_01 15:03

Yes, life happens, therefore real estate happens, and we're seeing it. And again, just it's a it's a privilege and honor to to help our clients walk through life that and real estate's certainly impacted with that.

SPEAKER_02 15:13

Join us each Friday morning for the George Real Estate Group Hometown Hero Show. The George Real Estate Group is located in Flat Rock, North Carolina, near Hendersonville in Henderson County. You can find them online at real estatebygreg.com. The George Real Estate Group can be reached at 828-3930134 or stop by their office at 2720 Greenville Highway, Flat Rock, North Carolina. Tune in live each week on Thursdays at 1005 a.m. on WHKP 107.7 FM and 1450 a.m. or stream online at WHKP.com. Or download these podcasts wherever you get your podcast. The George Real Estate Group brings you the WHKP Hometown Hero Series every Friday morning at 8.45.

Community Impact & Lasting Legacy

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Maybe the house feels a little too big these days. The stairs, a little steeper, the pace of life, a little too fast. But what if your next move wasn't about letting go? It was about making space for peace, for freedom, for what matters most. At the door real estate group, we understand that real estate isn't just about the house. It's about physics, timing, and trust. We helped the family and whatnot makes smart move. Closer to nature, closer to family, closer to home. So when you're ready to write size, simplify or start craft. We'll be here. Local. Trusted proven. Call us today, 828-393-0134. Find us online at realestate by greg.com. Because your next chapter deserves to feel just right.