078 - Building Connected Teams Through Rhythm, Community & Leadership with Natalie Spiro

In this vibrant and deeply personal conversation, John Marshall sits down with Natalie Spiro, founder and CEO of Drum Cafe North America and CEO of Blue Fire Leadership, to explore how rhythm, community, and intentional connection can transform the way teams and organizations operate. Natalie shares her remarkable journey from growing up in apartheid South Africa to building a thriving corporate team building enterprise out of her garage in San Diego, one drum circle at a time. Drawing on her background in organizational psychology, executive coaching, and Gallup CliftonStrengths, she unpacks the science behind rhythm as a unifying force and offers practical strategies for leaders who want to build deeper connection within their teams. From a resistant employee who became the first to take the stage, to delivering an unforgettable event for Google in Nairobi with borrowed drums tuned over an open fire, Natalie's stories remind us that when people feel seen, heard, and connected, performance follows naturally.

Connect with Natalie Spiro: Website

Takeaways

• Rhythm is a universal language that connects people at a level deeper than words.
• Community is not a nice to have for teams — it is the foundation of high performance.
• Leaders who show genuine curiosity about their team members unlock engagement that no incentive program can replicate.
• Manifesting your future requires both intentional vision and the courage to act when opportunity appears.
• Self-care is not a luxury — it is the energy source that allows leaders to show up fully for others.
• The most powerful team building moments come from going deeper than surface level stories.
• Resilience is built through relationships, not in isolation.
• When you are truly present with someone, they feel it — and that feeling builds trust.
• Pivoting in the face of loss is not giving up; it is the most strategic thing a leader can do.
• If you want to run fast, run alone — but if you want to run far, run together.

Visit The Present Professional webpage on humessence.com and learn more about how we support leadership development and culture enablement at growth-stage organizations.

Thank you for listening.

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Transcript

John Marshall (00:31)
Welcome to another episode of the present professional. Today we have a special guest with us, Natalie Spiro, founder and CEO of Drum Cafe North America and CEO of Blue Fire Leadership. For more than 20 years, she has helped leaders and teams strengthen culture, connection, and collaboration through transformational learning experiences rooted in coaching, human behavior,

and the unifying power of rhythm. The key piece of that being that very last part that really attracted me to bringing you on to the show and what you're doing with Drum Cafe North America. Such a unique way to bring people together in the corporate space. Something I haven't experienced in the corporate space, have experienced personally in its power, but I was so fascinated.

to hear how teams are engaging with those activities. But before we get into that, I want to hand it over to you, Natalie, to fill in any gaps that I missed in your introduction, and then just hear a little bit more about what's brought you to this point in your life and career. So I'd love to hear a little bit more about your journey as well.

Natalie Spiro (01:45)
Sure John, and thank you so much for having me. I'm honored to be here and share my story. It's an interesting story because I feel, you know, I'm an immigrant. I was born in Tel Aviv, Israel and I, at the age of four years old,

kind of came back to South Africa. My dad is South African, my mother's Egyptian and basically, they met in Israel and he wanted to come back when I was around four, back to South Africa. So I grew up in South Africa and I grew up in an apartheid South Africa which was a very interesting experience in and of itself.

But South Africa is a place and I guess wherever I've lived, music and rhythm is at the base of everything. So if you think about it, your first...

exposure to rhythm was in your mother's womb. The heartbeat, know that doot doot, doot doot, that bass beat that you heard right before you were even born. So we literally have embodied rhythm from the very beginning. But rhythm wasn't where I started. You know, ⁓ I'm a professional, as you mentioned, I'm an organizational psychologist, I have an MBA, which I've got in South Africa. I worked

a little bit internally within corporations for PricewaterhouseCoopers, worked for Investec Bank, I worked for Four Seasons, the Four Seasons Group and honestly I have to say that my passion

And my calling has always been A, kind of this entrepreneur, this serial entrepreneur. And B, my calling kind of has been from very young, know, of an age to really shift and change energy on this planet by one or by many. And

literally that landed when I immigrated to America in 2000 with my then husband who's now my ex-husband. You know, I came pretty lost because I had a jewellery design business in South Africa and I won a contract with Nordstrom's and that's really what brought me here and

I came here with all this excitement. Let me say my parents were already in San Diego as was my brother. So it seemed the logical move and it's something that I always wanted to do growing up. know, things when I lived in South Africa, things were always bigger and better in America, right? Which we saw through maybe one or two movies like video, TV sitcoms or movies that we got, which were always American movies. Funny enough,

music that we had was more British than American. ⁓ But I had always wanted to come to this country and so I got my opportunity and I'm a firm believer that we manifest our journey, our future. We have three choices as humans and as soul beings but...

John Marshall (04:38)
Hmm.

Natalie Spiro (04:54)
It's almost like I manifested that this was where I was going to come because I knew that since I was probably seven years old. And when I came to America, know, the jewelry business, I started with Nordstrom's, but it just didn't work out. It wasn't the right styling. It wasn't the right fit for the American culture. And so I was in a situation of what am I going to do next?

John Marshall (05:00)
Hmm.

Natalie Spiro (05:18)
and that's when I met a friend here at a dinner, she's Australian, she got me a position at Four Seasons but obviously the calling was for me to do something on my own and I went to, I don't know if anyone's heard of Debbie Ford, she was my mentor, she's now passed.

John Marshall (05:38)
.

Natalie Spiro (05:39)
but I went to a workshop of hers and just from a book I was reading on a plane and at that workshop I did this visualization and this kind of calling this why came through you know I was walking up an escalator there was a big boulder there was this wizard and I was like panicking and in full of anxiety of how I was going to get through this boulder and this wizard jumped up and said listen you're the magician

You can shift and change energy on this planet and do anything you want to do. So just walk through the boulder. And it was like, seemed so simple in the visualization. And so I was like very lit up by that. literally two weeks later, I was at home and this friend of mine contacted me from South Africa and said,

I have this business in South Africa called Drumstruck. It's a show. It's like an interactive stomp. I'm going to send you some videos. You with your corporate experience and all of that, you should take it into corporations. So I watched this video and the hair kind of on my body just raised.

and I was enthralled by it. I had no idea what it was about or how it happened or anything about it. I just knew this visceral feeling that I had. I went to a party that following week and I met the SVP of Motorola.

and she got chatting with me and was you know she said what are you doing in America and anyway I started riffing with her about everything in my life and you know this this this amazing business I'm gonna I'm gonna build and it's you know team building with rhythm etc etc and she looked at me and she was like

I don't want to hire a keynote speaker. I've got a meeting for a hundred regional managers in Vegas on 5th of February. I'm hiring you. And I was like, wow, that's awesome. Brilliant. I kind of rushed home from the party because I had no clue what this was all about. I called my friend Warren and I said, listen, I landed my first deal in America and it's with Motorola.

I need to come and get some training or something. So I flew to South Africa and he immersed me in like two weeks of these amazing African drummers all on djembe drums. We had incredible sessions which like literally the last session I almost think I went into a trance and I took a walk. I said I need to take a walk and this whole thing just kind of

came to me.

like in that walk in a vision and you know I went to a farmer's market there I found a guy I bought a hundred drums these djembe drums from from guinea I got stage gear I got all the percussion I needed from Warren I got training from Warren and I flew back to America literally the next week a friend of mine took me to an opening of an art museum in San Diego and it was a surprise

opening and it was all African art. And as I walked into the door, there were three West African drummers kind of drumming everybody in. And I turned to them and I was like, I really need to speak to you and you and you. And we had a conversation afterwards and I brought all of them to my house. I flew Warren in.

We did some practice kind of in the back of my house. We piled the drums in a U-Haul. We went to Vegas and we delivered this amazing event. this was the first time, you know you know the universe takes care of you when like a client tells you, you charged me too little.

piece up the rate and I'm going to hire you again and this is Motorola right and I'm you know this this nothing from South Africa so it was a most amazing experience and that was a start of Drum Cafe North America out of my garage and literally it grew by word of mouth

to a point and I mean let me say this is not a business that or an experience that was just an easy you know along the road just an easy experience. had tremendous ups and downs in terms I mean this was something I knew nothing about and I ventured into it which is typically what entrepreneurs do and you know with many many issues in terms of team changes and program change

John Marshall (09:54)
Mm-hmm.

Natalie Spiro (10:03)
and partner partners not working out and you know 2008 housing kind of crash and covid and I lost everything in covid so there were many ups and downs I think the greatest lesson for me because in 2012 I launched

John Marshall (10:08)
Mm-hmm.

you

Natalie Spiro (10:21)
Blue Fire leadership I've seen doing many corporate events the interconnection and alignment between the the principles of leadership and rhythm they kind of intertwine almost like a like a threads through a beautiful blanket

And so I started Blue Fire Leadership then and I became a Gallup Clifton Strengths Coach, an Executive Coach, a Sematic Coach and used my organizational psychology ⁓ skills and my skills as an MBA graduate and really pulled those all together. I now do team building events using

I coach teams to become really high performing teams using Gallup Clifton Strengths, which I highly believe in. And I do executive coaching. I also mentor other CEOs to scale their business. And you had mentioned earlier in one of our earlier discussions, John, that, you know, scaling businesses, you know, what happens then with with people culture? Because I think in today's environment,

John Marshall (11:11)
Mm-hmm.

Natalie Spiro (11:22)
economic and world environment. I've spoken to a lot of my clients and people are having meetings but they are only spending money where they have to because they are so scared of what's happening in the future. They have no idea of what's going to happen. So instead of taking a leap of courage and faith into the future they're holding back.

On one hand, yes, that makes sense, maybe financially for companies. However, on the other hand, companies are not companies. Those are just entities. Companies are people. And if people are not connected, people don't feel like they can collaborate. did a ton of research and do you know what the one reason is? The most important reason is why people leave their job.

John Marshall (11:56)
Mm-hmm.

Natalie Spiro (12:09)
The most important reason is A, because they cannot bear their manager.

and they go elsewhere to find a better way of living their work-life balance but also they don't have that BFF at work, your best friend at work and I have seen this over and over and over again so in a sense what my life's mission is I've grown and matured and become way more self-aware

I have realized that community is everything and it's my joy and I seek it out because without community what really do we have? And so, the Bushmen in Africa who are becoming way extinct and their whole philosophy of

John Marshall (12:42)
Hmm.

Natalie Spiro (12:59)
There is no kind of leadership. They make decisions in a circle. Everybody ⁓ has their role and responsibility. Everybody has a voice and an opinion as to what will happen with the And it's survived thousands of years. at the center and the core of that is music and rhythm.

John Marshall (13:20)
Mm.

Natalie Spiro (13:21)
I really translate that into corporations and wish corporations had a better understanding of how that kind of rhythm and sense of building community, right, it might not produce immediate ROI in terms of, increase in sales or, but it'll certainly increase engagement, collaboration and connection.

And when you have that, the ripple effect is high performance.

John Marshall (13:51)
Certainly.

Natalie Spiro (13:51)
So

that's kind of the, that's been my journey. I'm still a serial entrepreneur, John, and I'm starting a nonprofit now, which is going to underserved communities, school communities who can't afford my programs because the programs are expensive from a, you know, from a people standpoint. I have to pay my drummers and I have 3000 drums and they have to be shipped all over the place.

John Marshall (14:06)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Natalie Spiro (14:19)
And so I'm figuring ways to pivot and service the corporate community so that those expenses don't exist and yet they can still get the experience. But at the same time, I want to serve and give back to the kids because they're our future. ⁓

John Marshall (14:35)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Natalie Spiro (14:37)
in 20, 30, 40 years I'm gone and you know I want that as a legacy so I want kids to to experience the social emotional learning, the kindness, the graciousness, the deeper listening, all of those things that that you learn by default when you play drums.

John Marshall (14:58)
So much passion here, Natalie, as you tell your story, I can feel how passionate you are about this and how you've really embraced your life's mission to shift energy in the world. Now, when it comes to this concept of embracing your life's mission, you have

what I like to call basic trust, right? The basic trust that time, the universe and all things are unfolding exactly as they should in your favor in some way, regardless of what is happening. So.

At all of those different points in your life where there were turning points and you were listening for answers from outside, what are some of the things that helped you maintain this basic trust that everything is unfolding as it should and following the opportunity that comes up? Because I have a lot of decision makers listening and a lot of people making a lot of personal decisions and listening for those paths.

the guidance in their lives, the guidance for their teams. So just to ask the question again, what are the things that support you maintaining this trust that all things are unfolding as they should for you?

Natalie Spiro (16:15)
I mean that's a brilliant question John and it's a hard question to answer because this kind of this faith and and this real truth and when I say faith it's not religious faith it's it's faith that there's something greater than myself

that I'm always taken care of because if I look back on my life, you know, I am having a human experience, right? So I look back on my life and I see all, I analyze all those touch points in my life where I had trauma or difficulty or I was alone and did not have a partner in my life at that time.

And so when I'm yearning for what I don't have now, I go back and I say, I see those touch points and I see that I was always taken care of. I was never given more than I could handle. And when I felt like it was more than I could handle, I gave it up. I basically just said, you know what, take over. And

I look for evidence, even if it's small. Now to me evidence is things like, you know, a little hummingbird that comes to my feeder. I have a squirrel, I know this sounds so weird to say this on this podcast, but I have a squirrel, I've named him Chubby and he literally comes to my door and I'm not even joking but like knocks on the door so that I feed him nuts every day.

John Marshall (17:33)
I love it. I love it.

Natalie Spiro (17:47)
I have kind of created this relationship with a squirrel.

And all of these kinds of things are evidence to me just even it's as if like in my business for example this this non-profit that I'm putting together. I cannot begin to tell you how many people said to me do not do this it's the hardest thing in the world. I can't tell you John how easy this this putting it together one person led me to a lawyer I was thinking you know do it through legal zoom no go to a lawyer.

an old client put me in touch with their foundation they gave me $20,000. I had a name in mind, had a logo, that was done. I found a VA who's putting my website together. If I tell you it's almost like a Hansel and Gretel story where I feel like the universe is just dropping these pebbles in front of my feet. Now I know that fundraising is going to be the hardest part to find the schools, to do what I want

do is going to be very very easy because it's a mobile experience. not going to say more right now. I can't trademark this thing but I can tell you now I wanted an artist to decorate the vehicle that I'm going to be using. I found it through a PR person. Just everything just dropped in front of me.

John Marshall (18:53)
Mm-hmm.

Natalie Spiro (19:09)
And so it's been this and the same with with Drum Cafe North America. Everything like if you think about the workshop that I did, the message I got, the call with Warren, the meeting at the the, you know, party going to South Africa, finding these guys at the at the museum.

All of this is evidence that you are doing what you're supposed to be doing. When you are trying to hike through mud and make everything work against all odds. Not to say that it's not going to work because you're going to force it through, but it is the effortlessness that it should be is where the joy is experienced and by everybody. Right? So there's joy in the flow.

And I know certain people kind of will say, you know, I'm a bit woo woo. It's not about being woo woo. It's, although I do have woo on my Gallup Clifton strength as one of my top five. But that just means winning others over. It's got nothing to do with naked drum circles at by the full moon, right? It is a matter of just looking for evidence, having so much gratitude.

every day and the one big thing John is that you've got to live into your future like it's almost I do vision crafting a couple of times a week in the morning and it's really the vision crafting is simple it's asking you know it's looking at you know what are you grateful for now what's already happened that you're grateful for even though it hasn't happened

What are you manifesting? And now put all that feeling into how you're to feel living that. And when you feel what you're living into, that rays of vibration brings the right things to you. When you're very low and we all get to be...

John Marshall (20:53)
Mm-hmm

Natalie Spiro (20:58)
depressed, all get to have anxiety, we all get to feel low enough and you know not feel worthy, maybe have an imposter syndrome, we all go through that as humans. The issue is that if you really raise your own vibration by living into a future experience and feeling it, the right things are going to be attracted to you. It's science, really it's science.

John Marshall (21:09)
Mm-hmm.

I agree. And I think there's a underlying thread here that helps you meet that energy as it meets you. Right. Because of what you said in telling your story about the focus on relationships and leaning in meeting people. extending a hand to the three drummers at the door. Right.

Natalie Spiro (21:35)
Mm-hmm.

you

John Marshall (21:47)
having a conversation at a party, picking up the phone and calling, right? Word of mouth as the growth vehicle for your business. So I think there's one part in being intentional about creating your future.

having that vision, putting the right questions out there to the universe and really listening for those, ⁓ God winks, if you will, those little things that will show up to provide evidence that you are on the right path. But then there's also this natural tendency, I feel for you to connect well, low hesitancy to hear someone's story, to ask the questions, to pick up the phone and call.

So I think the first thing is yes, being intentional and listening to those little signs, but really prioritizing relationships and allowing yourself to be vulnerable, to just open up to someone and say, I'm trying to figure this out. And then they offer, ⁓ well, here's several ways. I think I could help you out to move that forward. So I guess just.

What I'm highlighting here is I think, yes, there's one part of you being intentional, but I think the other core piece of your basic trust and kind of surrender to the flow of the universe here is answering the call and picking up the phone to make the call.

Natalie Spiro (23:12)
and simp

Whatever you just said was gold John because it's exactly that. Like nothing's going to happen lying on your couch watching a mini-series. Getting out there as tough as it is at times and sometimes one has to fake it till we make it right? But there were times during Covid where I had lost everything and I sat because I needed to sit for a while

not too long but for a little while to really kind of sink into what had just happened and then it was around really pivoting.

Because at the same time that COVID happened, I ended a nine year relationship. My house exploded from the bottom up, all my pups blew up, I was in a hotel alone. I had a lot of time to really think.

and I honestly then started taking courses. I took somatic courses. I went online and I took whatever there was that was free.

and also things that I could pay a little amount for but to really elevate some of my skill sets, my mindset. Mindset is the most important because I really needed to elevate my mindset because I knew if my mindset sank and I lost this passion and this energy nothing's going to happen.

So pivoting was vital at that point. learned how to use online and virtual. I started designing virtual programs. I ran a few. I found partners to help me. I really, yes, yes, I walked into the calling and I acted because if you don't, nothing's going to happen. One person will lead you to another person, will lead you to another person. And all of a sudden,

I had coffee with a friend of mine who's in politics the other day and we were chatting and I told her my concept and I told her what I'm moving into in this non-profit and that I needed funding and I even thought I'm going to make it a documentary. I want to make it a documentary. And she was like, wow, well.

I get like five million dollars from the government. Obviously half of that goes to salaries but why don't you kind of contact me and I'll send you an application because we give to the arts, we give to children, we give to education and by the way a very good friend of mine is this amazing documentarian, pulls out her phone, shows me this video of him

doing a whole thing on kids playing Brazilian music and she's like this is your guy right this is your guy and it's because of that right you those are that's that to me is all evidence but I had to get out of my comfort zone to do it and I push myself all the time even though it's really not comfortable but I stretch myself

John Marshall (25:51)
What?

Natalie Spiro (26:11)
as much as I can and as often as I can. And sometimes I rely on my friends to help me lift me up because sometimes they're more positive on a day than I am and I know who to reach out to and call right and and and have a conversation and feel uplifted.

John Marshall (26:15)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Wow. Well, you told me one answer to this question in your friends lifting you up. And I would say another answer of yours is probably music and rhythm. But the question is, how do you keep your energy up through all of this? Your health, your energy, positivity. What are some of the things that help you?

Natalie Spiro (26:54)
Yeah.

John Marshall (26:54)
I

guess be such a force in the world.

Natalie Spiro (26:57)
Well, thank you. That's very humbling and thank you for saying that. I appreciate that. All of it is self-care. Every bit of it is self-care. I had to put a lot of boundaries down. I'm vulnerable and honest and transparent. I quit drinking a year ago. I lost a lot of weight. I changed my eating habits. I quit meat, I quit dairy, I quit gluten, I quit a whole bunch of different things.

I started Pilates and I chose one up the road so that I could walk there and didn't have to make the excuse of, no, I don't feel like getting in my car today to drive. So all of those things give me the, how would you say, the energy.

right to to move through the day because I also don't drink coffee and so I don't have like a hit of caffeine I have to rely on the dopamine and the serotonin flying through my system and so I have to create that and so you know doing the the vision crafting the gratitude the the eating well even though sometimes I probably don't eat enough

to be honest and doing that the pilates which really feeds my not only my body it really feeds my soul ⁓ it's not it's not combative on the body i've always done sports that were combative like you know i rode 550 miles from san francisco to la to raise money for aids and that was tough over seven days you know i was a i was a provincial swimmer or a state swimmer in south africa and you know i used to train and go on these

John Marshall (28:15)
Hmm.

Natalie Spiro (28:36)
meets and there was a lot I mean it was very healthy at a younger age but it's the sports were combative.

and I find now doing something like Pilates which feeds my soul and my body is just so much better. So those are the kinds of things that I do and the other very important thing that I do to not feel alone John is to go out and find community. So you know if friends don't text me or call me I make sure I call them or text them and if I have to invite myself

John Marshall (28:41)
Mm-hmm.

Natalie Spiro (29:09)
I do. I belong to a group that gets together once a month, a dinner group that gets together and I meet you know 15 to 20 new people all the time. So I try join a lot of those things and then I also give myself space to be alone because I need alone time. I'm kind of more of an extrovert than I am an introvert but the introvert in me always needs the time by myself.

John Marshall (29:19)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Natalie Spiro (29:33)
and

whether it's playing Mahjong on my app or seeking myself into some beautiful love story, movie kind of thing. I was just watching the JFK Junior story. It's so brilliant. I just like sunk into that. ⁓ my gosh, it is amazing. It's just like, when you really feel into it, it's just, it's brilliant.

John Marshall (29:49)
yes. My wife's obsessed with it as well. It's good. It is good.

Natalie Spiro (30:00)
So that's kind what I do is that answers your question.

John Marshall (30:02)
Definitely, And well, thank you for sharing that. It's, always somehow this podcast moves from kind of story to individual level, to teams, to organization, to global. It just increases scale and your individual story is so.

Riveting and also I think really inspiring for people that struggle to surrender to the flow of things and engage the flow in the way that you have so I love that you shared some of those practical things that keep you grounded that help you meet the world as it meets you because everyone can learn from that and develop their own strategies for what works for them

self care to keep them grounded, to meet the challenges that will lie ahead. And the speaking of challenges that, lie ahead in our ever divided more isolating, would say technologically isolating type world that we are moving into. think that community is

becoming ever more important. Right. And we're innovating around the different ways to create community and what that really means. And there's research coming out about it and there's resilience research and collaborative and connection research. And I mean, so many different things, but at the same time, there's a lot of money and research going into efficiency, AI automation, right. And

Natalie Spiro (31:35)
Mm-hmm.

John Marshall (31:39)
So when it comes to anyone listening here, that's running a team that has a group, an organization, even just a small team, and they want to start creating more connection within their team, right? Outside of hiring you for a team building event and getting around the circle with some drums, right? What are some even simple ways that you think they can start building?

a more connected team on their own.

Natalie Spiro (32:08)
There's so many. I mean, if you think about it, like as a manager, you should be really interested in, or as a leader, you should be interested in...

each individual in your team, like kind of what motivates them, how do they like to be celebrated, you know, what are some of the unique elements, what's important to them, right, and you should know that for each of your team members and even if you have to keep an Excel spreadsheet on it.

Gift people the way they want to be gifted. Celebrate them how they want to be celebrated. Do the things that motivate them.

because they there to kind of provide their best, they want to be their best selves and you are going to energize it, you're going be the fire underneath that and they will perform because they want to perform not only for their own personal kind of growth and need for... I can't remember the word I'm looking for right now but...

you are the as a leader you are the fire beneath them and you can take I mean so many people go I mean they do things like we go bowling together or we have

every week we do like a dinner together. So you might have a multicultural team. Maybe it's wonderful one night a week and you make this a weekly thing. One night a week you do a dinner that represents that particular person's culture and get them to tell their story about growing up or their ancestors stories about growing up.

using food as the metaphor and the connection point. There's things like, show and tell nights that you can do or show and tell meetings where everybody brings something special to them and has five minutes to tell a story about why that object is special to them.

John Marshall (34:04)
Hmm.

Natalie Spiro (34:04)
There's

so many ways you can connect with people without having to spend money to take them out because so many people do that, let's go to a bar together and let's do this together and at the end of the day, yeah, I mean, I'm not saying that that doesn't create community, but it doesn't get you to the deeper elements of each individual, which is where the magic is, right? Because most people tell their surface level stories. They don't tell their struggles, their

John Marshall (34:26)
Mm-hmm.

Natalie Spiro (34:31)
their desires, their dreams, their hopes, their wishes because they fear that they might be politically incorrect or maybe they get fired because of it, whatever. They share very superficially but if you want to take a deeper dive as a leader you have to be curious.

John Marshall (34:36)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I have to ask when you say as leader, you're the fire under the team. Is that the source of blue fire leadership? I had, I had to ask.

Natalie Spiro (34:57)
Yeah, kind of. ⁓

It was also where you know when you have a fire, you're all around a fire and the fire gets to its best place.

You just kind of see this blue flame. You don't have to add logs anymore. You're not lighting pieces of paper and things like that or putting igniter fluid. It's just this blue light and it's the highest level of warmth and the calmest the fire is at and certainly the most beautiful. So yeah, that's kind of where it comes from.

John Marshall (35:25)
Beautiful yet still

yet still burning. What a lovely metaphor for for a team right and well and an organization as above so below so I'm curious in the circles that you've held with teams What's what's a memorable moment where?

Natalie Spiro (35:29)
Yes, over.

Yep.

Yeah.

John Marshall (35:47)
maybe on a smaller scale, maybe not a massive event, but a moment where you've had a team, they're gathered around, they start drumming, they start sharing, they get amped up for whatever it is that they're starting to engage with and someone shares something or there's a connection moment where you totally feel the energy of the room shift. You have any stories that come to mind that would be great for our audience to hear?

Natalie Spiro (35:50)
Yeah.

⁓

I have one story that was really interesting. Well two actually, I'm going to try and say them very quickly. one event there was a specific individual who was not going to, I mean the event was like this, I'm just not joining in.

and you know I always meet people at their map of the world and energy's circular so I noticed the person out of my eye but you know kept the I have a specific program that I run so it's not just people in a circle drumming.

but they're in a semi-circle, I'm on stage with my team of drummers and I'm running this program and I'm kind of weaving through all the important information for that particular team using the drum as a medium versus PowerPoint. So she just did not want to participate. Well, eventually, and I left her, eventually the person next to her kind of was looking at her like this and nudging her and so she picked up her hand and she started slow.

kind of touching the Anyway, cut a long story short, the entire program, by the end of the program, ⁓ I was asking, firstly she was banging her drum like crazy.

I asked people to up on stage to do a solo to express their voice and to kind of say what they wanted to say in terms of what the organization was trying to achieve. And she was the first one up. She dived up on stage and she gave her best. Like she did not want to get off the stage. And the manager came up to me afterwards. She was my client. And she said to me,

I don't understand what you did here. This woman kind of, you know, she's, she's about to be let go. She just puts her feet in the ground, will not do anything, doesn't contribute to the team. And she said, I've never seen this happen. And I don't know what you did, but I want you to come back to my business each week and do the same. Anyway, we connected about two months afterwards and I said, how's this particular woman doing? And she said,

Amazing. She's contributing at every single meeting. She takes things on. She wants to put up agendas. She wants to run meetings. I was like... So that's how it can affect one individual which then has a ripple effect of others.

I just want to tell you another quick story because it was a fascinating story. So Google was one of my earlier clients and they were launching their mobile divisions in Kenya, the Sub-Saharan Africa Division for mobile.

John Marshall (38:34)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Natalie Spiro (38:45)
and they asked me to do a drum event for them and they wanted to buy drums so I ordered drums from South Africa to be shipped to Kenya you'd think that would be an easy task anyway it got stuck in customs and I found this out while I was in Chicago because I flew from San Diego to Chicago via Chicago to Nairobi

I had a warehouse in office there and my one person was living there, my logistics director. Anyway, I found out that the drums were stuck so I thought, alright, I went to my warehouse, I better have Plan B, I took with me a whole bunch of drumsticks and boomwhackers. There were only 50 people in the audience so it wasn't like a massive amount. I took some percussion and my drummer was coming from Seattle.

John Marshall (39:05)
Mm-hmm.

Natalie Spiro (39:31)
and his name is Teo, he's phenomenal this guy. Anyway, we arrive in Nairobi and it's like the middle of the night and the clients are in the van with me being taken through Nairobi to this very special resort and as we get there we land, I pull the driver aside and I whisper, like, can you find me drums? I need 50 djembe drums. He said, we don't really have those here. I said, you must know someone.

I go inside, I talk to the reception guy, I to the concierge, you know, I can't get my computer to work. I mean, like if anything, everything went wrong, it went wrong at this particular very important moment. The event was happening in two days. My drummer arrived the next morning. I didn't sleep all night because I was jet lagged. And I went for a seven mile run.

don't ask me how but I just went for a seven mile run and I then went back and started kind of talking to the concierge and the people that I contacted and I said to the guys you know do you have like an arts center here and they said yeah we have an art center and I said well let me talk to the people at the art center I'm sure that they have drums

Lo and behold, through a million different people, I found the one person, he's got 50 drums for me, but they're not all djembe drums. Some of them are these weird kind of bass drums and stuff. I said, it doesn't matter, just as long as they drums. So we agree on a price. He's going to deliver them that morning. The client is out doing some other function and they arrive and I'm playing with the drums and they are completely flat. So the guys build a fire in the middle.

of this fancy resort John and literally start tuning because the goatskin gets heated right on the drum and they're tuning the drums over the fire that they've made in the parking lot in this fancy resort. Smokes everywhere I'm like ⁓ my god I don't I'm praying okay like just please be with me and make this happen anyway I said to the guys you've got to you've got to finish this anyway cut a story short

The job gets done, we put the drums into where they store the suitcases, the client comes back and she says to me, look, she pulls me aside, she says, listen, Natalie, I'm super sorry.

I know we bought the drums but you know if you don't have drums because I told her we don't have drums you know I had to be honest I said we don't have drums but we have other instruments she said then I'm going to cancel the order which was huge for me right 50 drums and the shipping and everything which I had already paid for so I said no problem I completely understand anyway I turned to Teo I said but you know what I've sourced some drums so we're going to have drums

going to have other instruments so she was excited about that anyway we we did the event if i can use french on this podcast we kicked ass we really kicked us i mean i've never performed and he's never performed like we did at this particular program anyway after the program all the people were coming up to us and wanting to touch the percussion and take the percussion home and playing with the drums and and asking us questions and

Anyway, so she pulls me aside my client and she says, you know what?

I was speaking to my boss and the boss is like completely enthralled. We are going to buy the drums. They had the best experience here. I said no fantastic. That's awesome. I just get them out of customs. Anyway, I was leaving for the Masai Mara the next day. managed there was no internet except in the lobby at the Masai Mara at this tentive camp and I managed to get this woman to clear the drums and to get them delivered to the Google offices and literally since then I've probably

I had done 40 different events for Google. So that's another kind of a different shift, I guess, that happened from the people to them purchasing the drums, to them hearing about this experience clearly and Google hiring me for many more events after that.

John Marshall (43:29)
Wow. So clearly the power of rhythm is evident and you've had a lot of evidence and a lot of testimonials to say that this has shifted the dynamic of our team, the dynamic of our meeting, the dynamic of our organization. All right. So if anyone listening is enthralled and wanting to create

Natalie Spiro (43:34)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

John Marshall (43:56)
an experience like this for their team or their organization, what's the best way for them to reach you, Natalie?

Natalie Spiro (44:02)
So I'll share with you my cell phone number which is the best. You can text me or phone me it's 858-583-1960 or certainly visit my website which is www.drumcafeinorthamerica.com and my email address is natalie @ drumcafeinorthamerica.com So those are the three ways you can get in touch with me.

John Marshall (44:28)
Beautiful. Talk about vulnerability. I love it. Putting your phone number right in the middle of the episode. we're talking about leaning into relationships and connection once again. Once again. Take note everyone, This is how you get vulnerable and connect with people to grow your business, to drive your career forward. I mean, this takes networking to a universal type level.

Natalie Spiro (44:35)
yeah!

⁓ huh.

John Marshall (44:54)
Where you're connected to me, you're connected to everyone listening right now. So thank you for sharing everything that you have today. Such amazing stories and so much that so much promise for connection and for what teams and organizations can create through doing something a little different, right? Opening up, opening themselves up to changing.

Natalie Spiro (44:55)
time.

John Marshall (45:21)
the way that some meetings or events get kicked off, changing the way that we can interact with each other. So I want to just acknowledge you for leading the way in that and also bringing it to the next generation. This is going to be huge. So I'm happy that the present professional can be a platform to support that growth and movement. Okay.

Natalie Spiro (45:42)
Absolutely.

Thank you so much for saying that. I have so much gratitude. Thank you.

John Marshall (45:46)
Course. And one last question. So anyone that's listened, taken stories, thought about things for themselves, for their teams, if you could leave the listener with one last piece or one key piece of advice that you would like them to take away, either answered in that way or answered in the way that what is one of

the key pieces of advice that you've received throughout your years that you would want them to know. I'll let you choose which one you want to answer to leave with our listeners.

Natalie Spiro (46:23)
Okay, I'm probably going to answer two things, John. the one thing is for sure to have the tenacity and the grit and the faith in yourself that things will always, things will always turn around. Things go up and down.

and you know grasp life by the horns because we have a limited time in this body on this planet. That's the first thing. My second thing is my favorite proverb which is if you want to run fast run alone but if you want to run far run together and I'll leave you with that.

John Marshall (47:01)
Beautiful way to close out again. Thank you so much for being here listeners Thank you so much for tuning into another episode of the present professional You'll have links in the show notes to be able to connect with Natalie and hear more Follow your interests lean into the conversation make the call and you'll continue to grow until next time my friends