From Conflict to Connection: Superloop Practices for Better Teams

Part 3 of our 4-part conversation on the Superloop framework.

Strong teams aren’t built by accident. In this episode, Russel Lolacher sits down with Susan Leger Ferraro — senior advisor, CEO of G3 Works, and author of the bestselling book Superloop. She explains how practices like clearing conversations, Feedforward, and Pathmaker roles help teams move beyond conflict and into connection. Learn practical steps from Susan’s leadership framework for building trust, improving communication, and supporting your team with authenticity and accountability.

And connect with me for more great content!

• Sign Up for R@W Notes
• Subscribe on Youtube
• Follow on Linkedin
• Follow on Instagram
• Follow me on Threads
• Follow on TikTok
• Email me anytime

Transcript

Russel Lolacher: I wanna move to the we as well, because now we're responsible for a team. We're in the SuperLoop, we're understanding the SuperLoop. We're journaling. We get it. You bring up a couple of practices that I think are really great tools to get us out of these SuperLoops, like, feed forward clearing conversation and pathmakers.

I hate to bundle them all at once, but I, because I wanna jump on each of them a little bit, but can you sort of give me a, sort of set the table on what those are?

Susan Leger Ferraro: Sure. So you said feed forward clearing conversations and, and pathmaker. Okay. So I'll start in the reverse because the pathmaker is a position that we recommend that people put in place that are dedicated to supportive services for their team members. And when I mean team members, I'm talking about the entire institution, the CEO, all the way to the entry level person.

They are looking at support systems in the community. And I'm not just talking about, if you need support with food insecurity and you need food stamps or you need transportation, right? Those are some of the challenges that some people have. But there's other ones such as how do I navigate my insurance so I can find a good therapist. Okay, I might need help with that. How do I deal with this situation of, my team members, right? I'm, I'm a, I'm a CFO. Let's call CFO. They, they always get, labeled as being lousy humans, right? Because they think that they care about finance. What they think they're telling me that I, that I don't understand them and that I don't listen to them.

Can you help me pathmaker, find a course that would be valuable for me so that I can make improvements there? So, back in the old days, that's what the HR people used to do, right? They were, they were human resources looking at how do we develop humans? HR has now become an administrative function that is basically about benefits and liability and protecting the internal functioning and, and managing liability.

We, that's why people have now changed and there's now chief people officers and all of those positions because the HR has gone in a different way. And, and yes, we need someone that is looking out for the best interest of the development. Again, back to that development of everybody, including the CEO, that we are all learning.

I just turned 60, I've never been a 60-year-old person in my life with, with the, what I have on my plate. I, I haven't. Why we think that we should just understand these things when this is, the human experience is about constantly learning something new. So the pathmaker solves for that inside of the system.

Now people say, well, we don't, we don't have a budget. We can't afford it. So you add that onto someone that's interested in doing it as a part-time responsibility. Maybe they do it 10 hours a week. Maybe they do it five hours a week, but there's someone now that's developing the, the wherewithal and, and the, the insight and eyesight to start thinking about those needs through the lens of that position.

That's the pathmaker role, and it's, it's a really beautiful position.

Russel Lolacher: Before we get into the other two, I, I'm just curious about what the pathmaker is. What was wrong with mentorship? What was wrong with coaching that you thought that this is a way that we really need to be redefining? Because I mean, you can't go five minutes without somebody mentioning, oh, we should have a coaching conversation.

Oh, if you found, tried to find a mentor. Pathmaker, never part of the conversation, but I completely get it. So what, what wasn't working?

Susan Leger Ferraro: So let me, let me say this as tenderly as possible. Okay. There are a lot of people that call themselves, mentors and or coaches. Okay. This whole, life coaching model that has come out there, I've worked with hundreds, if not thousands of them. Okay? I would tell you there's 10 to 12% of them that are actually really effective.

The rest of them are nice to talk to, but they don't understand the developmental milestones of human beings in a way that they are helping. Everybody likes it because people like to talk about themselves. So, so the men, and that's true with the mentor piece of it and the coaching piece of it, it wasn't established enough where people were, some of them were, I'm not saying they weren't all, but some of them were.

And even, the kind of, supportive resource groups, right? The employee resource groups. Those are, that's another model, and I like all of them. But someone has to be managing all that and understanding what's happening with the individuals that are getting those services, and are we actually meeting their needs?

Because most people don't reveal themselves at a way because they, they feel shame about it, right? I am sorry that I need help doing this. I feel uncomfortable about it, and. What's been interesting about the pathmaker role that people didn't expect, but we knew what would happen, they thought that they were designing this for the entry level populations in, in their workplaces, right?

Then all of a sudden, the mid-level manager the person that's actually, the director of HR that's trying to come back from maternity leave, that now can't figure out how do I make ends meet because I'm paying $30,000 now for my infant child so that I can go back to work and it doesn't really make sense for me to do that.

Can we figure something out? And then all of a sudden the mid-level manager started saying, Hey, can I have some 20 minutes with the pathmaker? Then the, the senior leaders started, so everybody is looking for, Hey, can I, these challenges that formally I was asked to leave at the door.

Just leave him at the door. You don't, cross personal and professional. And again, all of that kind of urban legend, dynamic that we've created around the workplace that has left our humanity at the door with all of us feeling like, why am I doing this?

And, and to your point, I need the money, so that's why I'm doing it. But we're selling our soul because our environments at work do not create that supportive environment. And it's scary. I will tell you that most people that want to create healthy environments like you Russel say, wow, these are great ideas.

When they go to practice them, they are really hard for them to do it. I know that this is not easy. I get it, right? The other option of leaving things as they are doesn't work for me. I've got kids, I've got grandkids. I don't want them growing up in this environment. They're in it right now.

They are dealing with some of these things and so the pathmaker role comprehensively is one that is supporting those other supportive services of mentoring and coaching so that they're, they are as important as marketing data, as important as finance data, right? We are measuring the KPIs of the development of our people in the same way that we're measuring finances, growth, all of those other things that are important. Not, yeah we'll report on that once a year. No, no, no. This, every month we're gonna talk about this. What's working, what's not. It has to be held as that sacred and that serious as everything else. That is important to us.

Russel Lolacher: That's a great connection to clearing conversations because what's working and what's not is usually ignored a lot of the times. Or it is just like, oh, it'll work itself out. Which is a horrible thing to say 'cause it never, never ever does. So when it comes to clearing conversations, could you first sort of explain this in contrast to tough conversations or conflict resolution?

And I'm also kind of curious as to your thoughts of how it improves relationships with your team going through an initiative like this.

Susan Leger Ferraro: Mm-hmm. So clearing conversations I is a specific tool that is a little bit different than conflict resolution, although that is part of what it's doing. What it is doing is it? It is again, establishing right from the beginning what's working, what's not. As you said, Russel, it's establishing what my intention is, right?

You and I have a conflict and I say, Hey, Russel, I'd love to have a clearing conversation with you. Are you open to that? You go, yes, Susan, right? So we decide we're gonna do this. I start off with my own vulnerability and say, Russel, you and I have worked together for two years now and we haven't spent that much time, and there's things that I really enjoy about working with you, but what I've realized is that there's been some things that have not felt right to me, and I have not prioritized bringing them to you to have a conversation.

And so my intention for doing this right now is to build a stronger relationship between you and I, to understand what it is that's working for you and may not be working for you, and for us to make sure that we're rowing in the same direction and that we're building patterns of behavior and systems and processes that serve you, serve me and serve what we're both doing here. So I get very real at the beginning of this conversation and I, I take responsibility for what I have and haven't done and, and, it starts modeling that behavior. Then I get into, when I walked into the room the other day and I was, it was my turn to speak and we were bringing up this new theory that you and I had discussed and you interrupted me, that really is not supportive for me. Russel, I, I really want to make sure that when you and I are in the room, that we're holding space for the leadership of each other. Then I get into the specifics about what's not working and what's working.

Then I offer solutions. This is what I'm thinking about, right? This is how I think that this would work for me. I'm interested in how it's gonna work for you. This is not a monologue, Russel? This is a dialogue. And that's the other thing is that people get so hyped up and anxious and uncomfortable.

They go, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. They vomit all over the person. They walk out the room and you're like, what just happened? So a clearing conversation, to your point, it takes time. Like this doesn't happen in 30 minutes. You schedule sacred time to make sure that you are getting it and that they're getting it. And what it's gonna do, it's going to save you hours and hours and hours for the next six months of you being pissed off at this person, not getting deliverables, not working together. And so that's what I tell people. Yes, the investment may be right here, but you are saving hours and hours of conflict resolution and your own emotional wellbeing.

Nevermind significant other at home that needs to listen to you pontificate about this over and over again because you haven't done something effective about it.

Russel Lolacher: How does this help with shaking up the SuperLoop, having a clearing conversation to impact our beliefs, biology, and behavior? Where does that fit in that it sort of, we can, is it a, is it a recheck? Is it a derailment? Like what is this?

Susan Leger Ferraro: It, it is the practice of beliefs, biology, and behavior. I am now saying what I realized about my beliefs, Russel, was that I had assumptions. Okay. Which is a, a pretty common one about the way that you should be showing up. Yet, I never communicated those to you. So I am, I am taking responsibility for my beliefs about what should be wor, what works and what doesn't work.

And I am clear the reason we call it a clearing conversation. We think about it like a clearing in, in a field, right? I am creating this space for us to show up differently right at the end of SuperLoop, there's the Rumi quote, which is, out beyond the field of, out beyond right doing and wrongdoing, there is a field, I'll meet you there.

That's where all of this kind of place, it's like, let's leave the judgments that we have and the assumptions of even about ourselves and let's get together as human beings, out of love and support, and a passion to do good shit in the world. And that's why we're gonna have this conversation.

Russel Lolacher: I wanna just briefly talking about Feedforward, 'cause I want to get into the all bit of it. So, Feedforward is and I'm probably simplifying a bit, it feels much more about let's not look at the past. Let's look at the future and give advice rather than really actually feedback. Wait, is, am I wrong with that?

Susan Leger Ferraro: You're not, you're not totally wrong, but let me add some, some, a of clarity to it.

Russel Lolacher: You're here. Please.

Susan Leger Ferraro: Great. It's great. So, so we coined the term and trademarked Feedforward because what it was actually an organization called the NeuroLeadership Institute in New York. And in, they have done a lot of research, even on the term and how it activates people's cortisol level, right?

Their fight, flight, or freeze. When they hear the word feedback immediately goes up. So what we know about neurology in the brain is that the, if your amygdala right, which is where your emotional center is, shuts down, it's called an amygdala hijack, and you cannot access your executive function.

The pre-frontal cortex in your brain, that is basically the CEO of your brain, right, is, is your prefrontal cortex. It shuts it down so you can't access it when you are in that fight, flight, or freeze, and your amygdala shuts down. So we are trying to create an environment, exactly what you're saying. This is about what we wanna do going forward rather than about, elaborating on, this is what happened before and we don't want that to happen anymore.

We're gonna, we're gonna establish that, but we're gonna talk about. I'm establishing this now so that we can move forward in a way that we are in, in better alignment. That's the purpose of Feedforward. It has three prompts to it, right? It's not like we don't use the term feedback because feedback is used in, it's used in music, it reverberates, there's all kinds of, it's used in PT, right?

You want feedback from props and all kinds of things. We're talking about the way that we use feedback and the human systems that we work in. The three prompts that we created are one, to bring acknowledgement, love, and gratitude into the workplace, which is what I love about working with you, Russel.

So, and, and we do this on our teams every single week that we open. What I love about working with you is that you show up on these calls in a way that tells me that you're prepared and that you are interested in what I do, because we all want acknowledgement, but yet we don't create the intentional environment, right?

A community of practice where those things are happening. So we've created systems out of it. This is the prompt. So every week I'm now telling the people on my team what it is that I like about working with them. Right? Now what that does for you is it tells you, wow, I should do more of that because it seems to be valuable to Susan.

I wonder if I did more of it, if it would be valuable on the team. The second prompt is what I think you can do to improve your impact. Okay. We believe that peer-to-peer accountability changes the environment of auth, authoritative leadership to an authentic leadership environment. And, and what does that mean?

It means that the boss is not the only person that is holding people high and accountable. That's all of our jobs, right? And we don't like it. We'd rather not... above my pay grade, not doing that, but that doesn't work. We want to be heard. And so I watch you and I say, Russel, what I think you can do to improve your impact is, you might wanna do a little bit more marketing about what you do because you know it's fabulous, but there's not enough people that know about the work that you do.

So just something to consider. So that's just from my engagement of you. The third prompt is, and we do this one as people get comfortable with it, is the pattern of behavior that I observed that you may or may not, be aware of. Okay? Because what we also know about chronic behavior is that most of the time Russel, other people know this, right?

You ask someone else about Susan, they'll be like, yep, she does that all the time, blah, blah, blah, blah. And, and yet we don't take the time to help people see patterns of behavior. And what we know in the world of developmental psychology is that those patterns of behavior are typically our blind spots.

Things that we are not even aware of, right? That we, we don't even know that we don't know them, but everybody else can see them like, blah, glaring. But no one takes the time to, to support each other and give each other and call each other forward like that. So we've created this system that we do that consistently.

It, it has changed the game for so many organizations that practice it.