The Wine Pair Podcast

Getting Serious About Rosé #3: Tavel! (The Pope’s wine, The 4th wine)

• The Wine Pair • Season 1 • Episode 167

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Visually stunning, Tavel is not your typical rosé, and may be the rosé wine that makes your snobby “I don’t drink rosé” friends change their minds! Sometimes called the 4th wine, and sometimes called the Pope’s wine, Tavel is a different kind of juice. It is a very deep pink to red hue, sometimes described as watermelon or evening sunset, and the reason for that is because it spends more time on the skins than a typical rosé - afterall, rosé gets its color from red wine grapes. Wait, is all of this confusing you?!? Don’t worry, just join us, and we will unravel all of these mysteries and tell you why Tavel is the rosé wine you need to be drinking this year. It could be the “it” wine of summer 2025! Wines reviewed in this episode: 2022 Chateau Trinquevedel Tavel Rosé, 2023 Gabriel Meffre Saint Ferréol Tavel

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Show Notes

Episode #167: Getting Serious About Rosé #3: Tavel! 00:00

Hello! And welcome to The Wine Pair Podcast. I’m Joe, your sommelier of reasonably priced wine, and this is my wife and my wine pairing partner in crime, Carmela. And we are The Wine Pair! 

If you are new to our podcast, here is what you can expect. If you love wine and want to find great wines at affordable prices, and you want to expand your wine horizons, and you want to have some laughs and fun while doing it - then you are in the right place! Each week we explore a different wine varietal, style, brand, or region of the winemaking world, and learn about what makes them worth knowing about. And then we taste 2-3 of those wines that are reasonably priced to let you know if they are worth your hard earned money. If that feels like your vibe, then we are super happy you are here. And, we are proud to say that Decanter Magazine calls us fun, irreverent, chatty, and entertaining.

Carmela, it’s been a while, but we are heading back into summer in the not so distant future, and when summer comes around, a lot of people look forward to rosé. After all, when most people think about rosé, they think about a soft, sweet, fruity wine that is great super cold when you are poolside. 

And then again, some people, particularly some snobby red wine folks, don’t look forward to rosé for that very reason. They don’t think rosé is a serious wine, and they poo poo it as a wine for normies.

And so we think this could be the episode that covers both of them, and why we are doing another one of our Getting Serious About Rosé episodes, because we think we may have found the rosé wine that will change anyone’s opinion about rosé and it is called Tavel (TAH-vel - similar to the word travel, emphasis on the first syllable). 

So, you may not have seen or heard of Tavel before, or you may have ignored it, because most people just think that rosé is a wine in and of itself when in reality it is a style of wine making. The first thing to remember about rosé wine is that to be a rosé, you have to start with red wine grapes. And yes, it can be any red wine grape or grapes. And, yes, the taste of the rosé will be greatly impacted by the grapes that are used, and the technique the winemaker uses as well.

For those of you who may not be familiar with how rosé wine is made, or have forgotten since it’s been a while since we have done an episode on it, rosé wine gets its color, like a red wine does, from the grape skins, not the grape juice. A red wine will generally spend a week to several weeks or more in contact with the grape skins, but with a rosé, the grape skins don’t stay with the juice for very long - usually less than 24 hours. 

In the Direct Press method, the winemakers crush the red grapes to release the juice just like they would with any wine. Next, they let the grape juice sit with the skins, but only for a short time—usually just a few hours, and almost always less than 24 hours. This short contact gives rosé its pink color instead of deep red. Afterward, they remove the skins and let the juice ferment. On a total side note, you can make white wines with red grapes, you just drain the juice off and don’t let it contact the skin for any appreciable amount of time - this is what they do when they make Champagne and Blanc de Noir sparkling wines which usually use a grape like Pinot Noir. How’s that for fun facts?

Now there is another method for making rosé called the Saignée (say-nyee) Method which is less commonly used. In French, Saignée means to bleed off, and so when a winemaker uses this method, they drain off some of the juice early on - in the first day usually - and this is a lighter flavored wine that is pink in color. 

So, now that we have gone over that really fast, let’s talk just a bit about Tavel wine and where it is from before we discuss its history and importance in some depth in our next section, including its connection to Popes. 

Most of the wine that people consider a typical rosé is from the Provence area of France. Tavel is from the southern Rhône wine region of France. Provence and Rhône  are neighbors to each other and grow and use many of the same grapes, but Provence stretches along the Mediterranean Sea, east of the Rhône Valley, and it Includes famous areas like Côtes de Provence, Bandol, and Coteaux d’Aix-en-Provence. As you might guess, it is mostly known for rosé wine.

Tavel, on the other hand is in the Southern Rhône, which is famous for Grenache based wines like Châteauneuf-du-Pape, Gigondas, and Côtes du Rhône wines which are usually GSM blends - Grenache, Syrah, Mourvèdre.  Southern Rhône is also famous for Tavel, and the AOC of Tavel, which was established in 1936, only makes rosé.

While both are in Southern France, Southern Rhône is hotter, drier, and more inland than Provence, and Provence is closer to the sea, making it a touch cooler and breezier. This, my friends, has an impact on the kinds of wines that each will produce. The hint here is that hotter areas make more concentrated and riper fruit - and so you can tell right off the bat that Tavel is going to be a richer wine than the rosé of Provence.

That’s enough about that for now, because we have stuff to do - we have a couple or Tavel wines we are going to taste and review today to let you know if they are worth seeking out, and we want to learn why they call Tavel the Fourth Wine and the Pope’s wine. . . 

But first . . . we have to do our shameless plug.

Thank you for listening to us and for supporting our show, and if you haven’t  had the chance to do so yet, now would be the perfect time to follow or subscribe to our podcast and leave us a nice rating and review  to help us grow our listeners - and a huge thank you to all of you who have subscribed already! 

You can also follow us on Instagram at thewinepairpodcast, and on Bluesky. You can contact us on our website thewinepairpodcast.com, and you can sign up for our email newsletter there and you can also visit our “Shop Wine” section where you can find links to buy the wines that we rate as buys in each episode. 

And we want to make content you care about and you like, so send us a note or DM us and give us some feedback or let us know if there are wines you want us to try or wine making areas of the world you are curious about - and we’ll take care of it! joe@thewinepairpodcast.com. A few shoutouts this week

  • Amy Leland who sent us some ideas for restaurants and wine tours in Campania, and Amy, we swear we are not spying on you!
  • Shekar who sent us a really good article on how Millenials are changing the wine industry - we’ll put it in our newsletter, but the short story is they drink less, but drink higher priced and more natural wines. 
  • Timmysvino whose wife thinks he’s cool now that we gave him a shoutout in a previous episode. 


And, as we do every week, we’ll tell you someone we think you should recommend The Wine Pair Podcast to - because the best way for us to grow listeners is when you tell your family and friends about us - and this week, we want you to recommend us to anyone who you think needs to know more about rosé and maybe needs to find a rosé that will change how they feel about it, because this could be the one to do it!

RESEARCH ARTICLES AND LINKS FOR THIS EPISODE



Topic: WTF is Tavel Rosé? 10:57

Now, Carmela, we need to find out just what the fuck Tavel is, and to do so, there are two mysteries we need to solve. The first mystery is - why is it called the “fourth wine.” And the second mystery is - why is it called the Pope’s wine? Which is especially timely with the passing of Pope Frances I. In the near future, we are going to try to do an episode on Châteauneuf-du-Pape which is from around the same area as Tavel, and the translation of the name is “The Pope’s New Castle” - so we can stay on theme with the Pope as they go into Conclave.

Are you curious to learn more about these two things?

Let’s start with the first one - why Tavel is called the “fourth wine” of the Rhône. There is evidently a saying among winemakers in the Rhône that "There exist four wines: white, rosé, Tavel, and red.” By this they mean that, as Meg Maker of Terroir Review says, "Stylistically and gastronomically, Tavel feels like a drink unto itself—a fourth wine, and not to be taken lightly.”

There are several characteristics that account for this description:

  • Color and Appearance: Tavel rosé has a deep pink hue, often described as deep watermelon or late sunset, which is significantly darker than the pale salmon colors common in Provençal-style rosés. This deeper color sets it apart visually from typical rosés.
  • Body and Structure: Unlike most rosés which are on the lighter side, Tavel wines have more weight, structure, and tannin due to extended skin contact during maceration, which can range from 12 to up to 72 hours. Remember when I said usually rosés don’t stay on the skins for more than a day? Well, Tavel is an exception, and this is what causes both differences in color and taste.
  • Winemaking Techniques: Tavel winemaking, as we mentioned, involves a longer maceration period with the grape skins compared to the minimal skin contact (a couple of hours) used for Provence rosé. Some producers may also incorporate press wine, which adds to the wine's power and structure. What the hell is press wine? We’ll I’ll tell you
    • Press wine means juice extracted from the grape skins and pulp after the initial free-run juice has been drained. This is done by physically pressing the remaining grape must (skins, seeds, and pulp) - this wine tends to be darker, more tannic, more concentrated, and sometimes also some bitterness
    • The process in Tavel is sometimes referred to as the Taveloise technique or méthode Taveloise.
  • On the palate, Tavel can have flavors like red fruits, think cherry and raspberry, along with savory and spicy notes, and a minerality that can make it drink more like a light red wine than a typical rosé. Some even describe it as having a richness reminiscent of a lighter style of Châteauneuf-du-Pape.
  • Food Pairing: Due to its body and structure, Tavel is considered an excellent gastronomic wine that can pair with a wider range of foods beyond the lighter summer dishes we might associate with traditional rosés


So, that is the first mystery solved - it is called the fourth wine because it is sort of a tweener between red and rosé.

Now, let’s solve the second mystery of why it was called the Pope’s wine. First, you should know that Tavel is very close to Avignon. Do you know why that is important, Carmela, when it comes to Pope’s? And the reason why that is important is that for a period of time between 1309 and 1376, the 7 popes during that time were living in Avignon, France, and not Rome. This period of time was known as the Avignon Papacy, and sometimes the Babylonian Captivity of the Papacy, and they did it because the French kings were very powerful at the time. 

  • Tavel was served to the Papal Court in Avignon. The Pope’s liked this juice. In fact, it was said to have been a favorite of the Popes
  • During the period, probably for obvious reasons, the clergy showed a strong interest in the Rhône valley vineyards
  • Local legend has it, according to Guillaume Dumoulin of Château de Trinquevede - and I only bring up that name because it shows up in one of our wines later, that in the 14th century, Pope Innocent VI, who was a great lover of wine, asked the people of Tavel to make wines lighter in color and alcohol than the reds from Châteauneuf-du-Pape across the river. The people of Tavel complied, creating a wine of a color called rubis teinté d’or - which means “ruby with a golden tinge" in French.
  • Even after the Papal Court moved back to Rome in 1377, wines from Tavel continued to be exported to Italy, so the Popes continued to dig this wine.


So, now the second mystery is solved. The Popes, when they were near Tavel, started to really enjoy the wine, they served it frequently, and even brought it back with them to Rome - hence why it is called the wine of the Popes

Ok, I think we have learned enough about this wine’s history and background and style that it’s time for us to learn more about the wines we chose for this episode, whaddya say, Carmela?


Tavel Rosé Wines We Chose for This Episode 19:15

As usual, the wines we have chosen for this episode are under $25, and they both should be relatively easy to find because I bought one of them on wine.com, and the other I bought with great fear and trepidation at Total Wine. Now, if you want to know why I always go into Total Wine with fear and trepidation, check out our minisode #15 from October called “Why Total Wine is Sus.” 

Tavel should not be super hard to find. Any place with a decent wine selection, particularly of French wines, is going to have a Tavel, but let’s just say you are not going to find it at the local 7-11 or a small grocery store. Tavel is not, as we have been going through, the typical rosé wines that your Aunt Dee is going to be looking for. 

The first wine we are going to try today is the 2022 Chateau Trinquevedel Tavel Rosé. This wine is imported by Kermit Lynch, no relation to Kermit the Frog, and is a very well respected importer who, we think, is pretty reliable. In a future minisode, we are going to talk about finding an importer you like as a way to find other wines you may like to expand your wine horizons. 

This wine is a blend of a bunch of different grapes: 60% Grenache, 13% Clairette, 13% Syrah, 10% Cinsault, 3% Mourvèdre, 1% Bourboulenc. I will note that in Tavel, 60% Grenache, which is what this wine has, is the highest amount of Grenache allowed. Of those six grates, there are two I am not very familiar with, namely the Clairette and Bourboulenc. What is interesting is that both of the grapes are white grapes - remember that Rosé wines get their color from red grapes. 
Clairette and Bourboulenc are often used in small amounts in Tavel rosé blends to add freshness, structure, and some additional aromatics. Clairette brings soft citrus, a hint of bitterness, and a round mouthfeel, while Bourboulenc adds acidity, floral notes, and a bit of texture. You’ll also find them in white blends from Châteauneuf-du-Pape, Languedoc, and Provence—but in Tavel, they help balance out the bold red grapes without adding color.

The wine is quite high in alcohol at 14.5% it has the color of maraschino cherry juice in the bottle. 

The winery says the wine has cold skin maceration for 12 to 48 hours in cement tanks and then is direct pressed. It is fermented for 20 days in cement tanks at a low temperature, and then aged for 6-9 months in enamel-lined stainless-steel cuves - cuves is the French word for vat or tank. This should mean that the wine is fresh and crisp, and there should be no oak or wood on it at all. This wine does not go through malolactic fermentation, so they are trying to keep the acidity in the wine. 

The next wine we are going to taste and review is the 2023 Gabriel Meffre Saint Ferréol Tavel. The winery does not give the exact % of the grapes they use, but they do call out Cinsault, Grenache, and Syrah - so a bit of a different blend than the last one. 

The winery says that this wine is a blend of the 3 famous terroirs of Tavel : limestone slate from the upper slopes, “galets” or cobble stones from the mid-level terraces, and sandy gravel from the vineyards closer to the Rhône river. Now, remember, technically there is supposed to be no such thing as minerality in wine, but we should at least find that these grapes have good concentration of flavors from water stress in those rocky and sandy soils. 

To make this wine, the winery says that they take a portion of the grapes and macerate them on the skins for 8 hours, while the rest are directly pressed right when they arrive. They actually make wines separately for these two sets of grapes, and they ferment them at very low temperature. After fermentation, they say the wines are blended and then spend 4 months in tanks before being bottled. So, they don’t give quite the same amount of precise information, but it is enough to get an impression that this Gabriel Meffre may be a less concentrated version between the two. 

By the way, the winery says they are vegan friendly. My take on that means that they do not use any animal products in their fining and filtering process, or they do not fine and filter at all. But vegan friendly is a pretty vague term. 

But, I think that is enough information - let’s get to drinking! We’ll take a quick break and be right back. And, if you have these wines or similar wines, drink along with us to get some participation points, which you can trade-in for free stickers. You just need to send me an email with your mailing address, and I will get those “I drink with The Wine Pair Podcast” stickers over to you!


LINKS TO SOURCES FOR THESE SPECIFIC WINES


2022 Chateau Trinquevedel Tavel Rosé, 2023 Gabriel Meffre Saint Ferréol Tavel Wine Tasting, Pairing, and Review 26:47

Wine: Chateau Trinquevedel Tavel Rosé (Click here to buy this wine on wine.com. We may be compensated if you purchase)
Region: France, Southern Rhône
Year: 2022
Price: $19.97
Retailer: wine.com
Alcohol: 14.5%
Grapes: 60% Grenache, 13% Clairette, 13% Syrah, 10% Cinsault, 3% Mourvèdre, 1% Bourboulenc
Professional Rating: WE 91 Vivino 3.8

What we tasted and smelled in this Chateau Trinquevedel Tavel Rosé:

  • Color: Dark for a Rosé, looks like a cheap red wine, like a Pinot Noir Rosé, like someone poured water into a red wine, Kool Aid red
  • On the nose: Dr. Pepper, root beer, cherry cola, cherry, spice, raspberry licorice, cherry hard candy, a bit of rose perfume,
  • In the mouth: Cherry cough syrup, a bit of cherry, a little astringent, bitter aftertaste, very tannic, red raspberry or cranberry tea, pomegranate, still refreshing, raspberry, maraschino cherry, a bit medicinal


Food to pair with this Chateau Trinquevedel Tavel Rosé: Versatile with a lot of foods, wood fired pizza, kabobs, yakitori, grilled shrimp, chicken, beef, Thanksgiving, Holiday, ham, festive wine, a conversation piece
 
As a reminder on our rating scale, we rate on a scale of 1-10, with no half points, where 7 and above means that we would buy it, and 4 and below means that we are likely to pour it down the sink, and a 5 or 6 means we are likely to drink it and finish it, but we are probably not going to buy it. 

Chateau Trinquevedel Tavel Rosé Wine Rating: 

  • Joe: 8/10
  • Carmela: 8/10



Wine: Gabriel Meffre Saint Ferréol Tavel
Region: France, Southern Rhône
Year: 2023
Price: $24.99
Retailer: Total Wine
Alcohol: 13.5%
Grapes: Cinsault, Grenache noir, Syrah
Professional Rating: IWSC Bronze medal, Vivino 3.8

What we tasted and smelled in this Gabriel Meffre Saint Ferréol Tavel:

  • Color: Ruby with some orange in it, very pretty, red Kool Aid
  • On the nose: Herbs, grass, not a lot of fruit, not super aromatic, pomegranate, cranberry
  • In the mouth: Fresh and light on the front, fresh raspberry, tart red fruit, tea and tannin on the end, not as complex as the first wine, a cherry chapstick flavor


Food to pair with this Gabriel Meffre Saint Ferréol Tavel: Thanksgiving, summer sipper, not as versatile as the first, drinks a bit more like white wine than a Rosé, spicy foods, fish, a crowd pleaser

Gabriel Meffre Saint Ferréol Tavel Wine Rating: 

  • Joe: 6/10
  • Carmela: 7/10


Which one of these are you finishing tonight?

  • Carmela: Chateau Trinquevedel Tavel Rosé
  • Joe: Chateau Trinquevedel Tavel Rosé



Taste profiles expected from Tavel Rosé   43:08

  • General 
    • Red fruits like strawberry, cherry, raspberry, cooked candied raspberries, stone fruit, licorice, spice, white pepper, herbs, smoky, floral, wet stone, garden hose, weight on the palate, tannin
  • Chateau Trinquevedel Tavel Rosé
    • WE: Pale watermelon in color, wild strawberry, cherries, black peppercorn are abundant in this rosé. It has a nice fleshy texture on the palate, which crescendos in fruit intensity and minerality with enough aeration
    • Kermit Lynch: Its rich fruitiness on the palate recalls ripe strawberries warmed under the sun, then notes of spice and licorice kick in for a full-bodied, full-flavored finish
  • Gabriel Meffre Saint Ferréol Tavel
    • Winery: A deep bright ruby color, characteristic of Tavel wines. Very expressive nose with delicious notes of strawberry and pomegranate. A lovely structure with flavours of grenadine; good acidity combined with notes of strawberry coulis (puree) followed by a long, delicious finish.
    • IWSC (International Wine and Spirits Competition): Gastronomic style. Grapefruit aromas on the nose. Elegant palate with a well-defined texture. Clean finish.


What is your verdict on Tavel Rosé? 45:18
Fun and worth seeking out!

Outro and how to find The Wine Pair Podcast 45:50
Ok, so, Carmela, it’s time for us to go, but before we do, we want to thank you very much for listening to us - and if you haven’t done so yet, now would be the perfect time to follow or subscribe to our podcast and also a fantastic time to leave us a nice rating and review on our website or Apple podcasts or other podcast app - and it is an awesome and free way to support us and help us grow listeners.

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