The Wine Pair Podcast

High QPR Pinot Noir from South America!

• The Wine Pair • Season 1 • Episode 178

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South America may not be the first place you think of for high quality Pinot Noir, but it is definitely time to start putting it on your list, especially because, as wine prices shoot up due to tariffs, these lower cost options are going to be in higher demand. Pinot Noir in places like Chile and Argentina is still relatively new, and they are making exciting Burgundian-style wines in areas you would not expect. Despite most of the wine growing areas in South America tending to be warmer weather spots, they are discovering cooler climate oases where Pinot Noir can really shine. One of the wines we tasted and reviewed this week really knocked our socks off. And, as an extra bonus, we’ll dig into just what the eff rosorange wine is - and you can decide if you want to try it. Wines reviewed in this episode: 2020 Sur de los Andes Reserva Pinot Noir, 2021 Leyda Las Brisas Pinot Noir

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Show Notes

Episode 178: High QPR Pinot Noir from South America! (Plus - WTF is Rosorange wine?!?)  00:00

Hello fellow wine freaks! And welcome to The Wine Pair Podcast. I’m Joe, your sommelier of reasonably priced wine, and this is my wife and my wine pairing partner in crime, Carmela. And we are The Wine Pair! 

If you are new to our podcast, here is what you can expect. If you love wine and want to find great wines at affordable prices, and you want to expand your wine horizons, and you want to have some laughs and fun while doing it - then you are in the right place! Each week we explore a different wine varietal, style, brand, or region of the winemaking world, and learn about what makes them worth knowing about. And then we taste 2-3 of those wines that are reasonably priced to let you know if they are worth your hard earned money. If that feels like something that turns your crank, then we are happy to turn that crank for you. And, we are proud to say that Decanter Magazine calls us fun, irreverent, chatty, and entertaining.

Alright, Carmela, first of all, we are getting a few more name ideas for our tribe, our podcast family, that we want to use in our intro, although I am not sure freak is a good one, but I came up with that . Buso help us out, ok? I am going to go through the top contenders so far. Let’s give it another week or so for people to give us some more ideas, and then we will decide, and we would appreciate some votes. Let us know if you like any of these or have any new ideas.

  • Pairheads - Masked & Uncorked on IG - my friend and coworker Jeff McKean likes that one
  • Wine Hounds - Ryan F on IG
  • Grapenuts - Timmysvino
  • I feel like I am missing a few, so if I forgot your idea, send me a note or DM me to refill my brain box! Remember, if we choose your idea, we will put you on the podcast!


Alright, we are trying something new this week, Carmela, and I am hoping that you and our listeners like it - you’ll have to tell us what you think. I am calling it Wine in the News This Week, and so each week, in addition to giving information about the wines we are tasting and reviewing, we’ll cover a topic on wine in the news that seems timely and interesting.

Wine in the News This Week 03:56

So, this week I ran across an article by Hannah Crosbie in The Guardian called “Rosorange: is the latest wine trend here to stay?”

So, first, like you, I was unaware that this was a new wine trend, and I had no idea what rosorange wine is/was because I have never heard of it. So, we’re going to dig into just what it is, and then discuss what our thoughts are, how’s that sound?

First, rosorange wine is evidently a cross between rosé and orange wine. For a little reminder, rosé wine is made from red wine grapes, and is a style of wine where the grape juice, which is initially clear, is put in contact with the skins from the red grapes for a short period of time, generally 24 hours or less, to give it that pink color. Orange wine, on the other hand, is made from white wine grapes, and the juice is kept in contact and fermented with the skin and other things like stems and seeds and other fun stuff, and the contact can be much much longer - from weeks to even months. 

According to Hannah Crosbie, rosorange is a blend of rosé and orange wine that she ran across last year at an Aldi store, and then, as happens with something trendy, she started seeing it all over the place, and said that it blew up on social media. So, first, I’ll just say, I don’t think I have seen rosorange wine at all, have you? So I am already a little skep about it being a big wine trend, but then again, we are not on Tik Tok and we don’t go to the trendiest restaurants, and we aren’t very cool, so what do I know?

What is interesting is that these two wines, rosé and orange wine, are from very different types of grapes, and are generally appreciated for pretty different things, so putting them together is  . . . odd. Orange wine is known for being natural and funky and kind of intense, and low-intervention, while the most popular rosé wines tend to be very dry with clean, crisp, and fresh fruity flavors. So, this is a strange concept because they are combining two things that don’t really seem like they go together. 

We have some links to articles in the show notes, and I have listed some rosorange wines you can check out, including Domaines Paul Mas Rosorange (https://www.paulmas.com/en/lactualite-de-nos-domaines-en/paul-mas-rosorange/), and Côté Mas Rosorange (https://www.waitrosecellar.com/products/cote-mas-rosorange-205936), but here is a bit about how it is made and what it is supposed to taste like - although given that it is a very new thing, it could be made differently by different vintners.

The Paul Mas rosorange wine is a combination of Cinsault (san-so), Grenache Noir, Grenache Gris, Macabeu and Vermentino grapes, so a whole bunch of grapes. The wine is said to be co-vinified, meaning he makes a rosé wine and an orange wine and then combines them after they are initially macerated. Here is how it is described:

  •  A rosé base is made from red and grey grapes: Cinsault, Grenache Noir, and Grenache Gris, and he uses the direct press method rather than the bleeding off or saignéemethod.
  • And then an orange wine is made from the white grapes Macabeu and Vermentino. The grapes are destemmed, macerated on the skins for 6-8 days, then the juice is pressed off, and the orange wine is poured back into the rosé base - so, interesting how they are combined. 
  • Again, since rosé is the base, the wine is much more rosé than orange. Of the total mix, 75% is rosé and  25% is orange. (30% of the blend is Cinsault 25% Grenache Noir and 20% Grenache Gris while 15% is Macabeau and 10% is Vermentino)
  • After the two wines are assembled, they finish fermentation together and then are matured for around two months in stainless steel tanks


From a taste perspective, this wine is said to have flavors of candied fruit, like orange peel and quince, almond and cherry pit nuances, and aromas of lychee. It is said to be full bodied and powerful. 

So, what do you think, Carmela? Any thoughts about rosorange wine? My thought is that they are messing around with two things that don’t need messing around with. My POV is that these are two different wines with two different taste profiles and serve two different purposes, so it feels like a trend that will not stick around, but who knows. 

And for any of our listeners out there, we would love it if you would share with us any experiences you have had with rosorange wine, and we will share them here. 

But, now it’s time to move onto the wine of the day, a follow-up request from Justin L, yes, another idea from him that we are finally getting to, where he asked us to do an episode on High QPR Pinot Noir from South America. Remember, High QPR means quality to price ratio, so these are the types of wines that should be perfect for our podcast, lower cost with high value, and Pinot Noir is my favorite red wine. So, we have a Pinot Noir from Chile and one from Argentina, both under $25, that we are going to review, and we talk a bit about what Pinot Noir from South America is all about . . . 

But first . . . we have to do our shameless plug.

Thank you for listening to us and for supporting our show, and if you haven’t  had the chance to do so yet, now would be the perfect time to follow or subscribe to our podcast and leave us a nice rating and review  to help us grow our listeners - and a huge thank you to all of you who have subscribed already! 

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And we want to make content you care about and you like, so send us a note or DM us and give us some feedback or let us know if there are wines you want us to try or wine making areas of the world you are curious about - and we’ll take care of it! joe@thewinepairpodcast.com

  • Shoutout to Shekar who always sends us a nice note after we send out our newsletter, and this time he told us about his trip to the Willamette Valley in Oregon. Check out his website at thenalla.com
  • Shoutout to Ryan on IG who sent us a nice note, and agrees we should do some more Austrian wines. 
  • Shoutout to the East Idaho Foodies who shared a Grenache Blanc the like from Walla Walla called Reynvaan, and gave us an idea for a wine to cover - Dry Muscat
  • Yes, Dave Baxer on IG let us know we fucked up again - in the kindest way possible


And, as we do every week, we’ll tell you someone we think you should recommend The Wine Pair Podcast to - because the best way for us to grow listeners is when you tell your family and friends about us - and this week, we want you to recommend us to anyone who loves Pinot Noir and/or who loves South American wines, or just wants to know a little more about both because they may really dig this episode. 

RESEARCH ARTICLES AND LINKS FOR THIS EPISODE



Topic: What is Special about Pinot Noir from South America 15:35

So, let’s talk a little bit about Pinot Noir from South America, and I will say overall that South American wines are still a bit under the radar, and are probably going to be impacted by the tariffs that are starting to roll around, unfortunately.

Interestingly enough, based on information I got on the interwebs, in both Chile and Argentina Pinot Noir was originally introduced in order to make sparkling wine. And, this totally makes sense to me. As a reminder, Champagne is made from a combination of red and white grapes, mainly Chardonnay, Pinot Meunier, and Pinot Noir. And so, if you are going to start making sparkling wine, you are likely going to start with the classic Champagne wine grapes.

Pinot Noir came a little earlier to Chile than Argentina, but both are relatively new to the regions, with Pinot Noir coming to Chile in the late 60’s and to Argentina in the early 1990s. However, it really wasn’t until more recently that winemakers in South America started to focus on it as a still red wine rather than as a grape for sparkling.

In Chile, the information we found said it was in the late 1990’s that winemakers started to work with consultants from Burgundy, and then began to expand their Pinot Noir grape growing areas into cooler coastal areas. Pinot Noir is definitely a grape that does better in cooler climates, and it is a wine that is made and cultivated differently than the bigger red wines like Cabernet and Malbec, so finding the right kind of climate to make great Pinot Noir completely makes sense.

There is a similar story in Argentina, where they started in the 1990’s to focus on cooler climate higher altitude regions like the Uco Valley. Compared to Chile, Pinot Noir in Argentina is considered to be less mature. This is evidently also true of Uruguay where Pinot Noir is considered to still be a kind of a fringe varietal grown in cooler areas like Rio de la Plata which is close to the Atlantic.

So, making Pinot Noir in South America is pretty new, and, as would be expected from a grape like Pinot Noir, is pretty tricky to get right, so they are still finding their way in South America - which is kind of exciting. If you don’t know, Pinot Noir in general is known as a finicky, hard to grow grape, sensitive to weather conditions, difficult to prune, and susceptible to rot and other fungal diseases.

To add to the degree of difficulty, most of the grape wine growing areas in South America are warmer weather spots, so especially early on, Pinot Noir was made more like Cabernet - heavy, extracted, and overly concentrated. Countries like Brazil, for instance, just don’t make good Pinot Noir even today. Additionally, the vines are only now starting to really get some age on them, which generally leads to better grapes as the best vines are the ones that are kept year after year as they mature.

All that being said, the region is starting to be recognized for making some good Pinot Noir, and are said to be really good values, if you can find the styles that are more Burgundian in nature. Chile in particular is said to have experienced a “quantum leap” in Pinot Noir quality, where they are focusing on smaller plots in cooler areas with soils more similar to Burgundy. In fact, some are saying that Chile will soon rival New Zealand for Pinot Noir. And that smaller plot concept is classic for Pinot Noir.

If you are going to look for Pinot Noir from South America, look for wines from the following areas. In Chile: Aconcagua Costa, San Antonio, Limarí, Casablanca, Paredones, Bío-Bío, Malleco, and Chile Chico. And in Argentina, look for wines from the Uco Valley, Chubut, and Patagonia.

We have several good articles in our show notes that you can peruse if you want to know more, but on that note, I think it’s time to learn a little more about the specific wines we are drinking today. Whaddya say?


South American Pinot Noir Wines We Chose for This Episode 20:55

As usual, the wines we have chosen for this episode are under $25, and both should be relatively easy to find because I bought them at wine.com. Overall, I do think it is not going to be super duper easy to find Pinot Noir from South America, so you’ll have to dig around a bit, and as we always say, go to your local wine merchant and they will help you out. 

The first wine we are going to taste and review is the 2020 Sur de los Andes Reserva Pinot Noir. I found it really hard to find out much about this wine - no specific tech sheet based on some searching around, but I can say that sucky James Suckling gave it a 92. All I am going to say is that this bottle and the winery in general had lots of James Suckling referrals, making me very suspicious that they paid the dude to review their wines, which is why we are so skep of sucky James Suckling.

The winery is called Sur de los Andes, and was founded in 2005, so a pretty new winery. It is at the foot of the Andes mountains, which is confusing to me, because the information I was finding about this wine said that it is from Patagonia on wine.com, but the area where the winery is located is in Mendoza, which is not in Patagonia. So, if anyone can set me straight, please let me know.

But to add to what we don’t know, we  don’t know exactly where the grapes are sourced from or how the wine is made - like if it is oaked, if they use whole stem, if they use native yeasts, all that important stuff, which is really frustrating, so hopefully the wine tastes good, but we are going to move on. 

The second wine we are going to taste is the 2021 Leyda Las Brisas Pinot Noir which I already like because it is a screw cap! This wine received a 90 rating from Jimmy James Sucky Suckling, and a 92 from the Wine Advocate, and a 90 as well as a Best Buy from Wine Enthusiast. Overall, I will say that these are my three least favorite wine review sources, but there you go.

This wine had a tech sheet, hallelujah, and so here is some information we were able to glean:
It is from a coastal vineyard in Chile called Las Brisas, so you get that in the name, and they talk about it as a cool spot with granite soils, ideal for Burgundian grapes

  • The grapes are clones for several Pinot Noir stocks, some of which I really like such as 115 and GA 02
  • The grapes were harvested in big bins and then were selected and destemmed at the winery.
  • This is pretty interesting - check this out - Half of the grapes were vinified in open tanks and the other half in closed stainless steel vats, they were macerated for 3 days, which is not too long, and then fermented with native yeasts. So that is kind of interesting. 
  • They say they use gentle pump-overs and punch downs to give careful extraction, which I like. Treat your grapes nicely
  • They racked 14% of the wine in French oak barrels after fermentation, remember French oak is the lightest oak, 26% in concrete vats, 12% in untoasted oak containers called foudres, and 48% in stainless steel. They aged them all separately for 10 months then blended them together, but given the mix of oak, concrete, and stainless steel, I am expecting this to have light and not too heavy oaking


It’s low in alcohol at 13% which I also like, and should be nice and acidic.

But, I think that is enough information - let’s get to drinking! We’ll take a quick break and be right back. And, if you have these wines or similar wines, drink along with us to get some participation points, which you can trade-in for free stickers. You just need to send me an email with your mailing address, and I will get those “I drink with The Wine Pair Podcast” stickers over to you!


LINKS TO SOURCES FOR THESE SPECIFIC WINES


2020 Sur de los Andes Reserva Pinot Noir, 2021 Leyda Las Brisas Pinot Noir Wine Tasting, Pairing, and Review 27:55

Wine: Sur de los Andes Reserva Pinot Noir (Click here to find this wine on wine.com. We may be compensated if you purchase)
Region: Argentina, Patagonia
Year: 2020
Price: $16.99
Retailer: wine.com
Alcohol: 14%
Grapes: Pinot Noir
Professional Rating: JS 92,  Vivino 3.7

What we tasted and smelled in this Sur de los Andes Reserva Pinot Noir:

  • Color: A little dim, burgundy red
  • On the nose: Rose, perfume, cherry, a little wood, cherry Twizzler, incense, baking spice, allspice
  • In the mouth: Tang, underripe cherry, brambly underripe raspberry, red fruit, tannin, smoke. Flame, steel, tastes young


Food to pair with this Sur de los Andes Reserva Pinot Noir: White meat, chicken, pork tenderporn, Asian pork with hot mustard, spicy foods, Indian, this is a wine that needs food
 
As a reminder on our rating scale, we rate on a scale of 1-10, with no half points, where 7 and above means that we would buy it, and 4 and below means that we are likely to pour it down the sink, and a 5 or 6 means we are likely to drink it and finish it, but we are probably not going to buy it. 

Sur de los Andes Reserva Pinot Noir Wine Rating: 

  • Joe: 6/10
  • Carmela: 6/10


Wine: Leyda Las Brisas Pinot Noir (Click here to find this wine on wine.com. We may be compensated if you purchase)
Region: Chile, Leyda Valley
Year: 2021
Price: $19.97
Retailer: wine.com
Alcohol: 13%
Grapes: Pinot Noir
Professional Rating: RP 92, JS 90, WE 90 Vivino 3.7

What we tasted and smelled in this Leyda Las Brisas Pinot Noir:

  • Color: Has more of a Pinot Noir look, sparkles in the light, burgundy red hue
  • On the nose: Vegetal, strawberry, raspberry, cherry pie filling, smoke, gunpowder, rock 
  • In the mouth: Cherry, sweet, cherry candy, cherry Twizzler, smooth


Food to pair with this Leyda Las Brisas Pinot Noir: Good with food, skewers, shish kabob, charred grilled food, Greek food, gyro, very versatile wine, red meat, vegetarian, falafel, yogurt sauce chicken

Leyda Las Brisas Pinot Noir Wine Rating: 

  • Joe: 8/10
  • Carmela: 7/10



Which one of these are you finishing tonight?

  • Carmela: Leyda Las Brisas Pinot Noir
  • Joe: Leyda Las Brisas Pinot Noir



Taste profiles expected from Pinot Noir  40:06

  • General 
    • Red fruits like cherry, raspberry, strawberry, and cranberry
    • Earthy notes like earth, mushroom, forest floor
    • Floral aromas like violet or rose
    • Spice like vanilla, clove, allspice, and cinnamon
  • Sur de los Andes Reserva Pinot Noir
    • Winery: Initial oaky aromas suggest milk chocolate and vanilla, with veiled plum and berry scents in reserve. A medium to full palate is made creamy by oak, while this tastes of cherry, plum and mixed spices prior to a ripe finish on which the wine's oak character is integrated and less obvious.
    • JS: Aromas of cherries, raspberries, redcurrants, black pepper, wild herbs and vanilla. Medium-bodied with sleek tannins and bright acidity. Juicy and crunchy with a lively, spicy finish.
  • Leyda Las Brisas Pinot Noir
    • JS: A herbal accent to the ripe goji berries, red dates and cranberries, with a hint of caramel. Juicy and nicely dry on the palate with some crunchy berries.
    • WE: An aromatic nose, displaying hints of salt mixed with spices and thyme. An herbaceous and spicy profile makes a flavorful palate. It has medium acidity and chalky tannins. Notes of cherry and tobacco are bright in the aftertaste.



What is the verdict on South American Pinot Noir? 42:22

They are delightful! We really and we want to drink more of it! Very recommended, and the price is right!

Outro and how to find The Wine Pair Podcast 43:07

Ok, so, Carmela, it’s time for us to go, but before we do, we want to thank you very much for listening to us - and if you haven’t done so yet, now would be the perfect time to follow or subscribe to our podcast and also a fantastic time to leave us a nice rating and review on our website or Apple podcasts or other podcast app - and it is an awesome and free way to support us and help us grow listeners.

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