The Wine Pair Podcast

Costco vs. Costco! Kirkland Signature Chianti Classico Riserva Challenge! (Bonus: TJ’s Horrible Pumpkin Spice Chardonnay!)

• The Wine Pair • Season 1 • Episode 186

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We know what you’re thinking: how different could two of the same wines from different vintages taste really?!? We’re here to tell you, they were vastly different. Not even close. This week, we put Costco Kirkland Signature head to head with itself. Same wine: Kirkland Signature Chianti Classico Riserva, but different vintages - 2020 vs. 2022 - and two different producers. And hands down one was a winner. We expected it to be closer, but it just wasn’t. We also dig into what the different designations of Chianti mean - Chianti vs. Classico vs. Riserva vs. Gran Selezione. And we talk about why Chianti can be a bit of a polarizing wine. We also dared to try the Trader Joe’s Pumpkin Spice Chardonnay. There is only one way to describe it, and it rhymes with ducking spitty. You’ll definitely want to hear our reaction on that one. Wines reviewed in this episode: 2020 Kirkland Signature Chianti Classico Riserva, 2022  Kirkland Signature Chianti Classico Riserva

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Show Notes

Episode #186: Costco vs. Costco! Kirkland Signature Chianti Riserva Challenge! (Bonus: TJ’s Horrible Pumpkin Spice Chardonnay!) 00:00

Hello Wine Cru! And welcome to The Wine Pair Podcast. I’m Joe, your sommelier of reasonably priced wine, and this is my wife and my wine pairing partner in crime, Carmela. And we are The Wine Pair! 

If you are new to our podcast, here is what you can expect. If you love wine and want to find great wines at affordable prices, and you want to expand your wine horizons, and you want to have some laughs and fun while doing it - then you are in the right place! Each week we explore a different wine varietal, style, brand, or region of the winemaking world, and learn about what makes them worth knowing about. And then we taste 2-3 of those wines that are reasonably priced to let you know if they are worth your hard earned money. If that feels like your vibe, then we are your tribe. And, we are proud to say that Decanter Magazine calls us fun, irreverent, chatty, and entertaining.

We are on a bit of an Italian Wine Adventure today, Carmela, and we’ll get to that in a minute. However, we need to first cover the inspiration for our tribe name for today which comes from Christine K, a listener who has been super supportive to us for a long time now. Let’s go to our conversation with her and see the name she came up with.

 
Interview with Christine K on the tribe name Wine Cru! 02:24

That was super fun, and a big thanks to Christine who agreed to be on the podcast, and I am telling you this is one of the things that I am liking best about our podcast - getting the chance to meet the people who choose to spend time with us every week. You don’t get to choose, Carmela, but they do! And remember if you have a tribe name you want us to use, send us a note or DM us or stop by our house and let us know what it is and, if you are up for it, we’ll ask you to be a guest on the podcast.

Carmela, for the wine this week we are going to do something different with our Costco Kirkland Challenge - something we have never done before. And, I’ll be honest, it came about because of a bit of a mistake on my part that I mentioned in the intro. On one of our Costco dates I picked up a Kirkland Signature Chianti Classico Riserva, and when I got home, I realized that I had the same wine but from a different vintage. I also realized that we have done an episode on the wine before, so I thought, what if we did a review not only of their Chianti Classico Riserva, but also a review of different vintages of the same wine. And, it just so happens that these two vintages come from two different winemakers because Costco made a switch. So, seeing what we think and how they compare will be fun - I hope!

But before we get to that, we need to do

WIne in the news this week: Trader Joe’s Most Controversial Adult Beverage Is Back for Fall 7:46


So, Carmela, it is now officially fall, and what flavor is the flavor we have now come to expect in fall - and something you do with your cakes during this time of year? Yes, pumpkin spice. I personally love pumpkin spice, do you? I know for some people it is controversial. But I have something very controversial for you.

A recent article in Parade by Emy LaCroix is entitled: Trader Joe’s Most Controversial Adult Beverage Is Back for Fall. And yes, you guessed it, the wine is pumpkin spice infused. Pumpkin spice has now crept into literally everything - we see it in lattes, candles, cream cheese, even dog treats. And now… Trader Joe’s has decided to bring back their Pumpkin Spice Chardonnay. Yep. You heard that right. Pumpkin. Spice. Chardonnay.

Now, most of you already know that we are not big fans of Chardonnay, at least not fans of oaky Chardonnay, but pumpkin spice Chardonnay just seems like a scary combination. Do you like the way I did that? Scary?!? 

Anyway, this little Frankenstein first showed up last year, and apparently enough people either loved it or hate-drank it that Trader Joe’s decided to try again. According to TJ’s, it’s a lightly oaked California Chardonnay spiced up with cinnamon, nutmeg, and clove. Basically, if your grandma’s pumpkin pie collided with an oaky Chardonnay, this is what you’d get. It’s 6.9% alcohol, so very low for a wine, and costs only $6.99.

As you would expect, there has been some heated debate on the social medias about it - from those who love it to those who think it is an abomination. So, a few questions for you Carmela

  • Has pumpkin spice gone too far?
  • Would you try it? (We are going to try it!)


But we are not here to talk about pumpkin spice or Chardonnay. No. We are here to talk about Costco Kirkland Signature Chianti Classico Riserva, learn a bit more about what the wine is, and we are going to tell you if the wine is any good and if we can tell the difference between different vintages . . . 

But first . . . we have to do our shameless plug.

Thank you for listening to us and for supporting our show, and if you haven’t  had the chance to do so yet, now would be the perfect time to follow or subscribe to our podcast and leave us a nice rating and review  to help us grow our listeners - and a huge thank you to all of you who have subscribed already! 

You can also follow us on Instagram at thewinepairpodcast, and on Bluesky. You can contact us on our website thewinepairpodcast.com, and you can sign up for our email newsletter there and you can also visit our “Shop Wine” and “Shop Accessories” sections where you can find links to buy the wines that we rate as buys in each episode and accessories we think are great choices for wine lovers and as gifts, too. 

And we want to make content you care about and you like, so send us a note or DM us and give us some feedback or let us know if there are wines you want us to try or wine making areas of the world you are curious about or what you think about our wine in the news this week section - and we’ll take care of it! joe@thewinepairpodcast.com

  • Cocktails with Friends podcast!!! Bob Cutler. Check it out
  • Tips2LiveBy - BS who was inspired to drink a Gamay the other weekend after our Grignolino episode, and sent us some notes on Virginia wine
  • Brandon on IG (crvd-brandeaux) who is excited to try Grignolino
  • Hasini W on IG who let us know that she thinks the podcast is great, and she gave us a great name for our podcast tribe
  • Ryan F on IG who shared some wines we reviewed that he tasted as well and gave us his rating, and gave us some great ideas on maybe doing a live show with the tribe virtually, and giving you all a heads-up on the wines we are going to be drinking.
  • Oregonmobileesthetics on IG who sent us a picture of a wine calendar at Costco. A very dangerous thing to share with us. 
  • Timmy who put together an annotated version of our rating system - in our show notes and I put it in our newsletter and on our blog as well
    • Wine Pair Detailed Scoring
    • 10 - Perfect or near perfect wine. Better than almost anything you’ve ever tasted. Make great effort to save up and buy as much as you can afford in every vintage
    • 9 - Excellent wine. Almost ideal. Make a point of buying some and seek it out at restaurants. Choose it above most other wines.
    • 8 - Very, very good. Buy a few to have, look for it on wine lists. Would be very well-received as a generous gift.
    • 7 - Very good. Worth buying if you happen to see it. Strong consideration on a list. Good housewarming gift.
    • 6 - Good to decent. Would not go out of your way to buy it but if it’s the best option it will be fine. No need to seek it out. Many better options.
    • 5 - Just so so. Don’t buy it. Drink a glass if it’s offered.
    • 4 - Not good. Not flawed but avoid. Maybe a redeeming flavor or scent. Take a polite sip and set it down.
    • 3 - Not flawed but very poorly made. Dump it.
    • 2 - Flawed wine (cork taint, brett, etc). Dump it.
    • 1 - Awful. Potentially harmful if consumed. Dump it.


And, as we do every week, we’ll tell you someone we think you should recommend The Wine Pair Podcast to - because the best way for us to grow listeners is when you tell your family and friends about us - and this week, we want you to recommend us to anyone who is skeptical about Chianti because this may be the episode to either prove them wrong, or prove them right!


RESEARCH ARTICLES AND LINKS FOR THIS EPISODE



Topic: WTF Is Chianti Classico Riserva? 17:14

Carmela, let’s find out just what the fuck Chianti Classico Riserva is. 

This is not the first time we have done an episode on Chianti Classico Riserva from Kirkland Signature - if you go into the way back machine, about two years ago, we did a challenge on it, and Costco did not win. And in that episode we also talked about how the word fiasco came from Chianti wine, but you have to listen to that episode to get the story because we are not going to cover it again here.

Before we talk about what Chianti Classico Riserva is specifically, I do want to talk about the varied reputation of Chianti among wine drinkers, because we know a lot of wine drinkers who just don’t care for Chianti, even though they may really like wines like Brunello or Rosso di Montalcino - which are made from a clone of Sangiovese called Sangiovese Grosso. 

In general, I would say Chianti is almost purely a food wine. On its own, it can come across as very acidic and very tannic with a lean or rustic taste, some may call it thin, that tends toward very crunchy red fruit. For people who like rich, big wines, this just doesn’t cut it, and even among many wine drinkers, the wine can come across as what we would call sharp, and what some would call austere or rustic. However, with food, the high acidity can be a very good and versatile complement. It may just be that drinking it on its own is underwhelming. Remember, wine is food. 

What are your thoughts about Chianti, Carmela

Back to learning about what Chianti is, Chianti is a really broad and vast area, and you can just find a ton of variation in how different wine makers make the wine. You are also going to find a lot of variation depending on the year because of weather, etc. But, some would say that maybe the biggest difference is what area of Chianti it comes from. 

We have links to a lot more information in our show notes, but we thought it might be a good idea to do a quick review of the different variations of Chianti wine based on the area of Chianti your wine comes from, and remember that Chianti is a wine made from the Sangiovese grape, but comes from the specific Chianti area in beautiful Tuscany.

  • First, just know that all of these wines get the highest designation of Italian wine, which is the DOCG designation, not just DOC - which may surprise some of you. 
  • Chianti DOCG is the lowest rung
  • It is a broad appellation with 7 subzones. It must be at least 70% Sangiovese, and may include other red grapes like Canaiolo or even Cabernet Sauvignon and Merlot - and something you may not know but even up to 10% white grapes like Trebbiano. It requires minimal aging. And, the quality varies, but generally thought of as simple, everyday wine. Maybe what you would call a pizza wine
  • Chianti Classico DOCG is the next rung
  • You will recognize it by the black rooster, or gallo nero, symbol on the foil or other places on the bottle. It is called classico because it comes from the historic “heartland” of the wine which lies between Florence and Siena. It must be at least 80% Sangiovese, and no white grapes have been allowed since 2006. It also must be aged at least 12 months. Seen as higher quality, more structured, and more terroir-driven than plain old Chianti.
  • Chianti Classico Riserva DOCG is the next rung, and used to be the highest
  • It is a step up from Classico, and has even stricter requirements. Like Chianti Classico, Riserva again must be made from at least 80% Sangiovese. It must age at least 24 months, often including time in oak, with three of those months in the bottle. It also has higher minimum alcohol (12.5%) requirements. Also, although it comes from the Classico area, it is typically made from better fruit, with greater depth, structure, and aging potential than the standard Classico. When a winemaker puts Riserva on their bottle, they are trying to indicate it is a better wine.
  • Chianti Classico Gran Selezione DOCG
  • Is a new classification that was introduced in 2014 as the top tier, although some say it is just a marketing ploy to charge more money. These wines must come from estate-grown grapes (often single-vineyard). And, they require 30 months aging, at least three 3 months in bottle, and these are generally oaked for at least 15 months, but sometimes for two years or more. They are made from  90–100% Sangiovese, and only native red grapes are allowed in blends, and they must say where the grapes come from on the bottle. It is Intended to be the most prestigious, although some say it is little more than a rebranded Riserva.


If you are looking for the best of the best Chianti producers, look for Fontodi, Castello di Ama, Felsina, Isolae e Olena, and Ricasoli. But we also really like wines from San Felice, Castello di Querceto, and Castello di Monsanto, specifically their Il Poggio Riserve

But that’s enough information. I think it’s time to learn a little more about the specific wines we are drinking today. Whaddya say?


Costco Kirkland Signature Chianti Classico Riserva Wines We Chose for This Episode 24:00

As usual, the wines we have chosen for this episode are under $25, and they should be relatively easy to find because I bought them at Costco. If you ain’t got no Costco membership, you are not going to be able to find this wine. 

The first wine we are going to drink is the 2020 version of the Kirkland Signature Chianti Classico Riserva, and again what is interesting about these two vintages is that there are different producers for each year. In 2020, the wine was still made by the winemaking team of the Villa Cafaggio Estate. That may or may not mean they use grapes from the estate, and they are cheeky on the bottle by saying that the grapes were grown on slopes within the Chianti Classico region. 

For a bit of background on Villa Cafaggio, they are part of a collective focused on sustainable viticulture, and their wines are generally pretty highly regarded, especially their Basilica San Martino Chianti Classico Riserva. However, the ratings for this wine from Costco have not been awesome. I’ll wait to review the tasting notes until after we taste the wine, but the Costco Wine Blog basically just said it is a pizza night wine. Which is not supposed to be what a Chianti Classico Riserva is. They also gave the wine an 85 rating which is the lowest rating they have over the 8 years of reviews they had for this wine leading up to the 2020 vintage, and Reverse Wine Snob did not recommend it. 

The second wine is the 2022 vintage, and this one is made by a different group which took over production in 2021. The producers of this wine is Barona Riscasoli, and I could not find a reason for why they changed, but perhaps it could have been about price, or it could have been about quality, or it could have been about availability. No reason to speculate, and there are no clear answers.

The price of the wine stayed the same over the two years, and the rating from the Costco Wine Blog is just a bit higher at 86. However, the Reverse Wine Snob really liked both this vintage and the 2021 vintage, and gave this wine an 8.3 rating and called it a bulk buy.

The really interesting thing to me is that the explanation on the back of the bottle stayed exactly the same, even the tasting notes, which is odd, and the only thing that is left out is the name of the producers of the wine. 

Barone Ricasole also has a very good reputation, and Baron Bettino Riscasoli is said to have created the first Chianti blend in 1872, and is supposed to be the oldest winery in Italy. The winery's flagship Colledilà Chianti Classico Gran Selezione 2021 was awarded 97 points by Wine Spectator, so that’s saying something. 

But, I think that is enough information - let’s get to drinking! We’ll take a quick break and be right back. And, if you have these wines or similar wines, drink along with us to get some participation points, which you can trade-in for free stickers. You just need to send me an email with your mailing address, and I will get those “I drink with The Wine Pair Podcast” stickers over to you!


LINKS TO SOURCES FOR THESE SPECIFIC WINES




2020 Kirkland Signature Chianti Classico Riserva, 2022  Kirkland Signature Chianti Classico Riserva Wine Tasting, Pairing, and Review 28:05

Wine: Kirkland Signature Chianti Classico Riserva
Region: Italy, Tuscany
Year: 2020
Price: $8.99
Retailer: Costco
Alcohol: 13.5%
Grapes: Sangioves
Professional Rating: CwB: 85 Vivino

What we tasted and smelled in this 2020 Kirkland Signature Chianti Classico Riserva: 

  • Color: Pretty, light ruby red
  • On the nose: Vegetable, earth and dirt especially on the swirl, smoke, stewed tomato, cherry, plum, can smell the alcohol - a little hot
  • In the mouth: Acidic and thin, the slightest bit of fruit on the first tasted and then it vanishes, very tannic, sharp, grapey, tastes like the house wine


Food to pair with this 2020 Kirkland Signature Chianti Classico Riserva: Pizza wine, meaty pizza, burgers and fries, meat and potatoes, would actually be easy to pair because of the lightness of the wine, Thanksgiving wine, pork
 
As a reminder on our rating scale, we rate on a scale of 1-10, with no half points, where 7 and above means that we would buy it, and 4 and below means that we are likely to pour it down the sink, and a 5 or 6 means we are likely to drink it and finish it, but we are probably not going to buy it. 

2020 Kirkland Signature Chianti Classico Riserva Wine Rating: 

  • Joe: 5/10
  • Carmela: 5/10


Wine: Kirkland Signature Chianti Classico Riserva
Region: Italy, Tuscany
Year: 2022
Price: $8.99
Retailer: Costco
Alcohol: 13.5%
Grapes: Sangiovese
Professional Rating: RWS 8.3, CWB 86


What we tasted and smelled in this 2022 Kirkland Signature Chianti Classico Riserva: 

  • Color: Purple red, darker than the previous wine
  • On the nose: Rich, raisin, earth, black cherry, cherry pie filling, baking spices, plum, stewed fruit, blueberry compote
  • In the mouth: Rich, good acid, medium mouthfeel, blueberry pie filling, a bit jammy with a hint of sweetness, blueberry lemon compote, juicy, fruity, balanced, more pleasing to a broader array of wine drinkers, and can be drunk on its own


Food to pair with this 2022 Kirkland Signature Chianti Classico Riserva: Steak with sauce or gravy, beef roast, crock pot meat wine, also pizza and pasta
 

2022 Kirkland Signature Chianti Classico Riserva Wine Rating: 

  • Joe: 8/10
  • Carmela: 7/10



Which one of these are you finishing tonight?

  • Carmela: 2022 Kirkland Signature Chianti Classico Riserva
  • Joe: 2022 Kirkland Signature Chianti Classico Riserva



Taste profiles expected from Chianti Classico Riserva  40:55

  • General 
    • Aromas of ripe cherries, plums, raspberries, dried herbs, flint, earth, cedar, tobacco, vanilla, licorice, gladiolas.
    • Flavors tend to tart cherry, raspberry, leather, smoke, dried herbs, and sweet spice from the oak. 
    • Also tends to be medium to full bodied because of the oak aging. 
  • 2020 Kirkland Signature Chianti Classico Riserva
    • Winery: Intense dark color with aromas of ripe fruit and wild herb. The palate boasts deep Morello cherries with black currant undertones.
    • CWB: A little rough on the initial pour. Just thin and disjointed. I will say it improved significantly with some air (1 hour plus), but it started at such a low point. In the glass this wine is a pale ruby; there's subtle red fruit on the nose; flavors are mostly cherry and raspberry; good acidity, quick finish. Overall, just light, thin and not super interesting.
  • 2022 Kirkland Signature Chianti Classico Riserva
    • Winery: Intense dark color with aromas of ripe fruit and wild herb. The palate boasts deep Morello cherries with black currant undertones.
    • Reverse Wine Snob: Begins with an expressive, classic Chianti aroma of sour black cherry, earth, leather, a bit of spice, cranberry, licorice and even a little mint. Smooth and pleasing in the mouth.  It doesn’t have a ton of depth when first opened but giving it some air remedies that pretty quickly. Tasting reveals similar flavors to the nose plus good acidity, good fruit and good spice which all add up to a very good, very drinkable wine . The wine ends dry and a bit grippy with good persistence and lingering tart, juicy fruit notes. 

What is your verdict on Kirkland Signature Chianti Classico Riserva? 43:21
For the price the 2022 is great for a big party, buy it by the case, drink it as a Tuesday night wine.The 2020 is not worth buying.

Wines coming up 43:51
This idea came from Ryan F, and so we are going to tell you about some wines coming up that we are going to do episodes on in case you actually want to get them and drink along with us. Go to our show notes to find links to the specific wines, but we are going to be doing a Trousseau and then we are going to be doing some orange wines as well.
Frederic Lornet Charles Rouget Cotes du Jura Trousseau 2020
Domaine Ligier Arbois Trousseau 2023
Cote Mas Orange
Borgo Savaian Masarêt Skins are Kings Orange Wine - might be the same as the Aransat by Borgo Savaian as well

Outro and how to find The Wine Pair Podcast 44:35

Ok, so, Carmela, it’s time for us to go, but before we do, we want to thank you very much for listening to us - and if you haven’t done so yet, now would be the perfect time to follow or subscribe to our podcast and also a fantastic time to leave us a nice rating and review on our website or Apple podcasts or other podcast app - and it is an awesome and free way to support us and help us grow listeners.

We would also love to hear from you about a wine you would like us to taste and review. You can leave a message for us on our website thewinepairpodcast.com and you can join our email newsletter there - and if you missed our latest newsletter, email me and I will send it to you. You can do that by reaching out at joe@thewinepairpodcast.com. And tell us some things you want to hear us do, or not hear us do!

Alright, with that, we are going to sign off, so thanks again, and we will see you next time. And, as we say, life is short, so stop drinking shitty wine.

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