JT Rimbey  00:01
Welcome to the field sales leadership guide podcast where we discuss with experienced and successful sales leaders what works and what doesn't in the sales professionals. Join us as we tap into high performing sales leaders and their passion for field sales. We've lined up for you some of the smartest movers and shakers in sales leadership to share their formulas for success and the tricks of the trade. Join us as we pull back the curtain giving you actionable insights and strategies that you can use with your sales team. 

Hello, everyone, it is my pleasure to be here with you today for this first episode of the podcast. I am JT Rimbey. Thank you for taking the time to be with us today. Maybe you're on the road traveling between sales calls or listening in the office. We appreciate that you're taking the time to stay curious about sales leadership and learn from the guests that we invite here to share with us. 

I know a thing or two about sales and sales leadership myself, and I've been fortunate to spend the last 15 years working with some really big technology brands like Salesforce and ChannelAdvisor here in the Raleigh, North Carolina area. My tech and sales leadership background along with my passion for the profession came together in a just a really perfect union. When I joined the team at Map My Customers, our sponsor, I learned so much each and every day speaking with fellow sales teams and leaders. And I feel inspired by the insights that they share with me. 

The most successful sales leaders are doing so with intention as they coach their teams to upskill their sales talents and to be relentless and methodical in their approach. I couldn't be happier to bring this expertise to the podcast, and share it with all of you in hopes that you'll hear something that really resonates and that you can ultimately try out and put to use with your team. 

Today we get to chat with Joe McDonald. Joe is the Vice President of Sales for Jasper Engines and Transmissions. And before we begin, I get to connect with sales leaders each and every day. And ultimately, if I generalize that, there's kind of two primary buckets of sales leaders that I come across again on a daily basis. Number one, the big brother sales leader. And number two, the best friend's sales leader. Big brother is perceived as untrusting and disconnected from the day to day activities of an outside field rep. The best friend well, they end up flying blind as they're unable to forecast accurately, as they definitely avoid unpopular decisions. 

Joe McDonald sits in neither of those buckets. He's a leader that sets clear expectations while caring about his team. And the results. They're just awesome, thriving revenue, data driven insights, very low rep turnover, which all produces a very loyal customer base. Joe has been a breath of fresh air. He's strategic, thoughtful, collaborative, and it's always easy to see when someone is respected within their own organization. Joe certainly is the only glaring visible flaw that Joe does have is that he's a Baltimore Ravens fan. But we can overlook that in light of the purpose of today's call. Welcome to the podcast, Joe, as always very excited to hang out with you.

Joe McDonald  03:14
I appreciate the kind words there. I look forward to talking to you.

JT Rimbey  03:19
I appreciate you not giving me too much grief with the Ravens jab. So before we dive into any of the processes and your strategies that you've implemented at Jasper, will you just take a minute and walk us through how you got into sales?

Joe McDonald  03:33
Sure, and appreciate the opportunity to do that. Well, it was really by accident coming out of college like most people. You're trying to find that niche and something you fit into. And I found myself in the automotive industry and just couldn't get out of it. Initially in the car rental business. Back in the mid 90s. There was a lot of them out there before a lot of that consolidation occurred. And then found myself looking for work and went to work for the automotive chemical company and was working in the Baltimore area. Really I was referred to Jasper for one of my independent repair shop customers to go into sales, and I can remember some of my friends saying Joe, you're gonna get fired pretty quickly because you're too direct to be in sales. What I found I was pretty nervous when I started with Jasper but what I found pretty quickly is people want to want you to be honest with them and sometimes you got to say no and and they agreed with that. So in the automotive industry, the independent repair shop owner that's a blue collar person and the respect people that are honest that I found that it's something that I could do very well in and build those relationships. So I started with Jasper and back in 96 and then late 90s. The economy was very hot, and I was fortunate to start at a great time with them because at the time I think we had 18 total branches and our goal was to get in every major market so I was a part of that growth and went from an outside salesperson to a regional sales manager. And about three years with the company because of that rapid growth, I found myself overseeing the southeast region for many years, and then three years ago took over the Vice President's role.

JT Rimbey  05:16
I appreciate that one thing that stood out to me there, Joe was just, you use the word transparency, and I just want to share it for the listeners. And I think you and I have actually chatted about this in the past. But there's a gentleman that I met probably five or six years ago, his name is Todd Caponi. And he authored a book called The Transparency Sale. And man, what a blessing he has been to so many different people, it is refreshing when you have somebody that's just direct, and honest.

Joe McDonald  05:43
It really is. And you know, when we're looking for outside sales reps, I cringe when I hear that person say, “Hey, I could sell ice to an Eskimo.” I cringe when I hear that, because that's not what we're looking for. We're looking for people to be honest, and our product, we feel very confident about our product in the marketplace and how we compete with our competitors. But there's some folks out there that don't fit what we're selling. And sometimes we have to walk away from that. And that's okay. And fortunately, I work for a company that supports that, that policy, that transparency, and the culture that Jasper has built really thrives on that.

JT Rimbey  06:20
We're gonna get into the culture of Jasper here in just a little bit. But before we get deep into the go to market strategy that you've deployed, can we first level set just a little bit on a few things? So, Joe, you oversee a large team, and correct me if my numbers are off, but approximately 160 reps with the last I think I heard about about 20 territories that are still open to growth. Is that accurate?

Joe McDonald  06:44
That's fairly accurate. We did an open territory count yesterday and we're at 14 right now. But yup, the outside sales reps with a team of regional vice presidents and a fleet in the national program team is about that 160 number.

JT Rimbey  06:59
That is a big sales team. How is that structured, organizationally?

Joe McDonald  07:03
So the hierarchy, again, starts with myself the Vice President of Sales. And then direct reports to me are five regional vice presidents. And we divide that up into that mid 30 number. That's something cooperatively we've done at that leadership level, at the VP level in that mid 30 number. And then we have sales managers in each market. And depending on the size of the branch, they'll have two reps to six or seven under them. We are in every major market. And the way that we've looked at our territory Mark makeup is by population, most territories in that 1.7 million to 2.3 million, obviously, in some of the larger cities, where population is much more, what's the word I'm looking for?

JT Rimbey  07:46
Condensed?

Joe McDonald  07:47
Thank you, thank you condensed, we've stretched that out a little bit. But it's based on population. Now we're seeing obviously, with a big population shift in this country, especially the last couple of years, we're really looking at that, again, much closer to these areas that we're able to maybe squeeze another territory in because population has grown so much. And in the northeast, we're looking at making some territories larger because it's that population loss.

JT Rimbey  08:11
You've been in this role for about three years, you had one year before the world changed unbelievably due to COVID. How did you manage the chaos or opportunity, especially being new to the VP of sales position?

Joe McDonald  08:25
Yeah, it wasn't fun, I can tell you. You know, I took the position in the end of 2018. So you got 19, 20 and 21. So far, right? 2018 was a good year for us. And again, in the automotive aftermarket. It's funny, I remember in the fall of 2019, I was at SEMA in Las Vegas. And I made sure I got around to the couple of classes where the consultants were speaking about the industry. I sat in three and all three were very consistent with the automotive aftermarket which was somewhat stagnated and was going to see maybe growth in one to 3%, the next couple of years. And that's just sort of fall 2018. So I'm coming up on my end of my first year as vice president sales, and we're pretty much flat. And I'm getting it right, I'm hearing it from the board and from our President and our ribbing a little bit and our VPs of manufacturing telling me hey, Joe, we don't know where else to put this inventory unless you sell it. So they were having some fun, and you know, obviously 2020 hit, and the first couple months were very consistent. We were maybe up 2%. And then March is when it really hit the floor and then just like everybody else, we had no idea what the future held. We were all nervous. We were contracting. You know, what, what do we do? And again, working for a great company. We kept everybody employed, we offered different things to different people and got as creative as we possibly could. Obviously, sales dropped dramatically. But as you know now in the automotive aftermarket, it's been very good coming out of this. The chip issue for the new vehicles has been a godsend for the aftermarket and for us in June of 2020. It went from 10 miles miles an hour to 110 miles an hour overnight. And it hasn't stopped. Some of the changes we made due to COVID We actually had to pull we're an outside sales company or guys are out five days a week, there's not an office day. So we had to pull 160 reps in and figure out what do we have them do. So we had to recreate that program and making a bunch of outbound calls. And for outside sales guys, it's the last thing they want to be doing is sitting behind a desk and making outbound calls. And coming out of it, we learned some things, you know. When when we were going through it, and a lot of the great companies did this, when you're going through a circumstance like this degrade companies make the best of it, learn from it, and change because of it. And we said, what can we learn from this, what we learned whether there was outbound calls, work in some areas. So today, we actually have created an office productivity day, we call it, it's on Thursday, I especially don't want to call it an office day. I don't like that term. Sometimes people define that term as an office day. And that words kind of slacking. So we call it an office productivity day. And it's very structured on the number of outbound calls they need to make, who they're making them to. And we learned a lot from that. And it's helped us expand the account base out. We went from around 325 accounts to 600, because of the number of people we could touch because of this office productivity day. So what overall tangent with you there on was created out of that? But to answer your question, yeah, it boomed. And honestly, when you look at 2020 coming out of that, and that June, July, boom, we were busy and busier than we have been in three or four years. And then March of 2021, it went to another level, we didn't think you could go to another level went to another level, and it hasn't stopped. So wrapping up 2021, we've got records broken are not only Jasper engines, but other holding companies as well.

JT Rimbey  11:53
What I'm most impressed by is it didn't seem like you guys had any knee jerk reactions, with a very scary and very uncertain time.

Joe McDonald  12:02
Yeah. And I'll tell you, I was here during the, you know, 1989 recession. Those of us in the workforce can remember that was a very scary time. And that's when I first learned going through something like that. And again, the leadership of this company, and how they react, we keep things the same, you know, we do what we've always done, and that is taking care of the customer, we continue looking for people and making sure we're doing the right thing. But these knee jerk reactions can get you in trouble.

JT Rimbey  12:32
We're treading on the culture of Jasper, I want to come back to that. That's just a glaring difference with the vast majority of sales teams that I get to chat with. But let's go into the actual go to market strategy here serving in the repair shops, national fleet teams, those are very different selling motions, speak a little bit to the way that you've structured the team to serve those specific segments of customers. Yeah,

Joe McDonald  12:59
We really touch on to specific customers, we sell directly to the installer market. So that's unique and we don't sell through a part store distributorship, or anything like that. We are the manufacturer. We deliver the product on our own trucks and in logistics and of course, our reps and branches. So we keep control over quality. And that's very, very important to our independent repair shop market is Joe's Garage. You know, on the corner, you know, your typical independent repair shop will do maybe five engine replacements a year, seven eight transmission replacements a year when Miss Jones comes in with that minivan. We want Joe's automotive toner, hey, if she needs a transmission, we want him by the Jasper transmission. So we are marketing to that shop owner to recommend our product to that end user. Then our other customer bases the fleet, you know your national fleets like the US Postal Service, Federal Express UPS ATT, that customer and you're and you're right there, they're very, very different. And one of the strategy pieces I've put into place we created a fleet and national program team to focus on that fleet market and we've got regional people across the country. Now our sales rep is still calling on that customer base, they're just getting additional support from that fleet National Program team. So truly what we're selling to the fleet we are selling to the end user that is the person making that decision for their own vehicle. It is a different type sales, large account management, their expectations are much different than that that small independent repair shop owner. So we're creating a strategy to maximize both those customers. But we also have value adds them to touch each other. We've created a fleet installer program under that fleet national umbrella and that's to allow our fleets to get repairs done by those shops. We have relationships with that focus on fleet repair. One of the trends that we've seen here in the last five to seven years is your fleets are struggling to find that qualified technician and doing that work in house or they've had to come outside for that. So now they can come to Jasper to find those quality shops across the country that can help support that repair.

JT Rimbey  15:01
That's awesome. When I look at the Indy repair shop when I first started to learn about the Jasper model, just to be clear for the listeners, your OSR is your outside sales reps. They're not loading a transmission into their vehicle and dropping and selling it on site to an end repair shop. The way that I think that it's highlighted or articulated on the Jasper site is OSR's are building relationships, trusted relationships with these these into repair shops, so that when the Rimbey family's vehicle breaks down, and I need a new transmission, and I go to Joe's Garage, they're calling the Jasper rep right out of the gate, because they're trusted, they're known, and they've consistently had this relationship built over time.

Joe McDonald  15:47
That's exactly right. We call our guys a factory representatives, our sales process isn't like I talked about that salesperson, hey, we have it today, sign here, if you want to buy it, that's not what we're doing, we may go in and visit a shop and he may not have an opportunity for an engine or transmission for another month. But we want him thinking of us now and saying that, you know, when we're qualifying this account base, you look at a typical territory size. In that population range, it's probably got about 2500 independent repair shops, we want that rep canvassing that entire area. And it'll take them about a year and a half to do that. But what we want him doing is adding the higher volume shops to his consistent visit schedule.

JT Rimbey  16:29
If I go back to the big brother, manager in the best friend's scenario that we spoke about, at the very opening of our meeting today, what has been a glaring weakness, specifically with outside field sales leadership, to me over the past 13 to 14 months is a lack of process. Too often than not sales leaders say well, we hire adults, they know how to manage their territory, we're not going to hold their hand. And quite honestly, if I'm being really direct, I think that's an excuse because they don't know how to put the pieces of the puzzle together. So one of the key reasons why I have just been blown away by the Jasper way, is the processes, and the foundational building blocks of these processes that you guys have put in place to set your reps up for success. I think that is so incredibly valuable.

Joe McDonald  17:23
First of all, thanks for setting the table there. Because it's the reason for our success. You know, it's the recipe of our success. And I share that all the time with our new reps. And I turned it we're production sales. That's what we are. And we do have a sales process that is very structured. When I interviewed many reps over the years, I can't tell you how many times I've heard in the first five minutes for me describe it really my last job. I just got this book and start Monday and go get it's amazing to me how some of these folks find success in that way. 

JT Rimbey  18:00
Do like to hire and hope strategy.

Joe McDonald  18:04
And I think a lot of it is they don't know that these leadership, there's business out there. I'm hiring a sales rep, because you're a sales rep Don't get up. What's more than that. And I share with the guys that we interview, this is a partnership, I'm hiring you for the skills that you're bringing. And I'm going to share a process that I need you to follow. And I tell you and I'll get more into the process, but we're hiring outside salespeople, there's mavericks, there's high A’s, high B's, and sometimes that's tough to fit into a process that you don't understand. I'm a sales guy don't need that, oh, he'll make you money, Joe. Well, that's fine. And I tell him listen, you'll get up to a certain dollar amount by just doing that. But you're going to hit a wall in about two and a half to three years. And you will not you cannot get beyond that wall without this process. The buy in is there. And again, we have guys fight it the first year in battle a little bit. And they end up giving it a try little bit of it. Wow, I've been outside sales for 20 years, this stuff actually works. What does work? So yes, we do have a process. And I've shared this, you know what gets measured gets done, as well. So again, it is part of our culture and who we are. And really it starts with the time of day, you know, we weren't you making your first call by 8am. You're making your last call at five or after. If you're a rep that's looking to say hey, I made my 10 calls today and it's two o'clock and I'm gonna go play golf. That's not the guy we're looking for. So we've got a number of calls we want to meet each day, we break it down into good calls, those that you've actually talked to a decision maker. And then we have the statistical part of the job, which is what's in your control. We know things that work, right? We know visual technique, audio technique, retention levels of visual versus audio. We're showing six visual pieces per day, whether it's a PowerPoint or a video. We're leaving certain things behind. So, there's that system of understanding what works and then incorporating it into that reps personality. And I've shared Hey, it may take you six, eight months to figure it out, you're going to be robotic, there's no question, it is going to be uncomfortable. But I'm going to ask you to get uncomfortable to get comfortable. And we've all heard that. And once that clicks, and you're using our system of selling with your personality, it's a homerun, because what you're bringing to the table, I want you to work. And for me, you add to our system of selling into it, it'll be a home run. And again, it takes some months to get used to it. But you have to have that buy in as well.

JT Rimbey  20:38
What I love the most about this is I have yet to meet individual contributors, outside sales reps inside sales reps, that will look at you and say, What I love most about sales is administrative burdens or complexities. I love doing a lot of organization. They don't say that kind of stuff. No, they want to get out and get face to face. The way that I describe what Jasper has done, is you've taken all of the administrative complexity

Joe McDonald  21:08
Out of this, you know, when I was young, entrepreneurial, I tried a couple of businesses on my own did okay, failed all that good stuff. And I was looking for that security of a company. But that also provided the path to be successful. monetarily and, you know, sales, we want to have to make money. And I think many of us heard from our elders over the years, as we grow up, if you want to make money, start your own business or get into sales, right? The sorting business thing failed for me. So sales, and Jasper has said go do this and you will be successful. So alright, I want to go do this. And that's exactly what we've set up down to how the territory setup. Know, when we start somebody out, we look at their territory, we divided into four. And you're going to spend one week with each one of those T groups. And that's where you're breaking down those twelves and sixes. And I mentioned, I didn't mention the fours and that's at once a quarter customer that we see the lower volume customer. So as you're starting to canvas and you're adding council into your account base, you're adding 12, sixes and fours and you're gonna divide them amongst that four. So that kind of takes that thought process around. Where am I going to go? What do I go do today? Well, it's right there, you pull up your call planner, these are the guys that are going to be called on next week based on that 12 Six or four. So it's kind of takes that piece away. And then when you look at the statistical piece of it, okay, each day, Jasper is asking me to make 12 good calls, six videos or PowerPoints, or asking me get up a couple posters, or maybe a door sticker, those are the must haves, okay, here's how I want to do that. And you can lay that out. And I tell these guys I used to break my day down into to my morning was my most productive. My goal every day was to have six videos by lunch and have my lunch planned. You know, I'd call the day before Hey, gonna be over there, John gonna grab me up for lunch. So meals is another statistical piece that we look at a bill news those relationships. And what happens is, once you start that process, and you say, Okay, this is what they asked for, this is what I want to go do, then it becomes a habit, then you don't even need that in front of you. And I tell guys all the time, guys at the beginning that are struggling, hey, I'm struggling to get that 12 good, cause I'm struggling to get those videos in. So as soon as you stop looking at and it's a stat, it'll be easy. Because if I took that video away from you and said, Hey, you can't show that to the customers anymore. When you walk in there, you're going to feel negative you and I need this to show this guy. There's just different psychological thing you play with it. But it's the need for the tool, and we just give our guys a toolbox is depending on what tool you want to pull out to use in that call. And that first year is very basic, we're just asking for these statistical pieces that second full year, you're starting to really build relationships with customers, you're starting to learn that John is focused on this type of repair and builds on this and this fleet's this. So you're gonna go in and be much more specific to that customer. And if you've got the basics down, it's a lot easier to think quicker on your feet, and to bring more into the box. So we really focus in that first year on getting those basics and that statistical piece down and that roadmap to be successful. And then really, we've said it 1000 times after that first year, and you understand that year and a half. If it's to be it's up to me, and everything else is there.

JT Rimbey  24:16
I love that the automatic result of a process where the outside sales rep knows where they're going when they're going there. The customer gets to predict and regularly count on. Oh, this is when Jason is going to be by you nailed it, man. That consistency factor just drives loyalty. 

Joe McDonald  24:39
You know, we've had guys that have taken it and hold it that group 100. They've got it down to 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 for Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. So not only is that sharp know that John comes at the beginning of month, every month but he gets here on Monday. It's that consistency but again, that takes away having to think about that and let you focus on what do. I want to talk about in the call. And talking about another piece that we utilize is a sales plan. It's an outline we've been I've been with Jasper for 25 years. And I think the year before I started, a couple guys went to a class on preparing an outline for a call. And we've incorporated it to where we're writing sales plans for that call. And it starts with a benefit statement and enrollment question. And then obviously, a presentation and a close. So does that four sectors of every every call, if I walk into a call, I need to state my purpose? Why am I here today, you know, when you look at the automotive aftermarket, and you go in these independent repair shops? They probably average four to six people walking in their day selling something, and a majority of them, I'm sorry, I'm gonna say it, but they're not very professional all the time. They're in those khakis, and kind of beat up golf shirt. And they got a flyer that they're talking about. And that's all they know, to talk about. And they talk about the weather and things like that. And listen, that'll get you somewhere a little bit. But if you're not bringing value to these folks, that second, third and fourth time you walk in there, they are going to turn you off. And they should I need to be taught bringing value I need to understand his business. He's doing this many engines transmissions. He's going out he's got a little fleet business. If I'm not bringing him value and stating that purpose. When I walked in, hey, JT wants to share some ideas where I can reduce that liability. What do you got today, Joe? Well, let me share that with you. And I'm in and out of there in 10 to 15 minutes, and that fifth, sixth eighth time I go in there, and that guy's walking out there to get anytime and Jasper walks in. He turns around. Hey, John, come on back. What do you got today? That other sales reps looking at you like what do you got going on? Value, it's just making sure we're bringing the value T groups

JT Rimbey  26:45
Think of the state of North Carolina as Billy's territory. T groups are dividing the state of North Carolina into four quadrants correct? You got a T group 100 200 300 400. And then within each quadrant, you have twelves. Those are accounts that should be seen every month, you have sixes that should be seen every other month. And then you have fours that they need to be seen at least once a year with a couple of other touch points mixed in between

Joe McDonald  27:13
Once a quarter physically those once a quarter physically, okay, there were three other times a year. So email.

JT Rimbey  27:19
Billy might have 15 to 20 stops a day. But he's held accountable to 12 good calls. And if there's one thing that I keep learning over and over again, about outside Field Sales Reps, they go naturally to the accounts that are going to open their arms when somebody walks in and just have conversations. Yes. And they feel productive, because they're hanging out face to face with somebody. But if it's not a decision maker, and if it doesn't have the potential to, to further the relationship and drive revenue, we're wasting time. Yes. So you tracking that decision maker interaction is a critical component to all of this.

Joe McDonald  28:01
Good call definition is a decision maker or IT major influences to the decision maker, right. And you bring up a great point. And we say this to our guys all the time. And it's fun when the newer guys come along, and you ride with them. And they go in there, and they have a great call during their 30 minutes. And they come out with a call and they're just waiting for you to pat him on the back and say, Man, you did it, man, what a great call. You have fun with him a little bit and you just let him know that. Listen, that was your first call with him, you took 30-45 minutes of his time. Okay. So just imagine next time when you pull in this slot, and he sees you in his mind you're a 30 or 45 minute rep. Now, even though it was his fault, that he kept you and everyone that keep talking about things in his mind your 30-45 minute rep. So you need to show him your 15 minute rep. And you need to control the call somewhat. If you get off on these tangents, you got to bring it back. So I can't agree with you enough there. And like you said, sometimes you think oh, it was a great call. Well, 90% of what you said in there wasn't really productive. Now you're building a relationship, not going to argue that right? That's great for building relationship. But you got to make sure you bring in value. We see sometimes our veterans have been around a long time, they start to struggle. And we arrived with them. And what's happened is they built these great relationships with these customers. Now they don't want to go in there and challenge them anymore. They don't want to ask the tough questions set are going in there and just being there, buddy, like you said earlier, right? So does that same relationship with a shop or any customer and a sales rep. This goes across, you know, in the industry, and I tell these guys, what earns you that relationship with them in the first place. It was holding them accountable, bringing value. So they expect you to continue to do that. You got to get back to doing that.

JT Rimbey  29:46
The way you've been able to structure the process and measure and drive value with each sales visit. It's so effective and it's clearly working from both a revenue perspective and a team building and culture perspective. I've been absolutely enamored with Jasper's team culture. So how did Jasper get its start and what is behind the business that has such an unusual tenure and a high performing staff.

Joe McDonald  30:10
It's really really unique. Jasper, Indiana, small town in southwest Indiana about an hour and a half north of Louisville. And Alvin Roxor was a gentleman that started Jasper engines in 1942 manufacturer at celebrating our 80th year this year. And he had a Ford dealership where he started building engines during the war and realized he had an opportunity there and started Jasper engines. And up until 1987. He ran the company where he had no children. So two of the families that worked for him for many, many years purchased the company from him that the Bibles and the Swank's, they ran the company and are still very involved in the company up until 2009. And they were gracious enough to sell the company back to the employees 100%. Now, Bob, our chairman, he will say and he said it many times, I don't mind quoting it, when you look at a building a business that that first generation builds it, that second generation typically takes it to the next level. And historically, what's that third generation done? Away, excuse my language, but that's what he says. He says, We're not going to allow that to happen. And we're going to give it to the people that built this company. So since 2009, we've been an employee owned company. And that's again, part of that culture of giving back that you wanted to talk about. And since that ESOP was formed, we've brought four companies now under that umbrella and purchase them to bring them into the ESOP. But the culture starts with our leadership, and it's that servant leadership. I can't sum it up enough. Under servant leadership. It first hit me when I became a regional we went to a meeting down in Destin, Florida, and Doug Biovar, chairman, Zach Bog president was there we had eaten dinner, and we're all getting ready up. And he's like, no, no, and Doug and Zack took our dishes, they wash our dishes, they sit there, here's dessert. And I thought, that's really cool. But that never stopped. So that that wasn't a show that was genuine. And when you work for leadership like that, and it matches your character, it's easy to continue that leadership. And I can sit here and give you 100 different stories from that. But it did start with Alvin Roxor, and that servant leadership, and the Bible's and Swank’s were a Christian company, though, where's that on his sleeve, and we're out front with that. And that's what guides our culture truly. And then we took on the seven habits by Covey, which is, you know, when you look at the seven habits, you can pull that right out of the Bible as well, it goes back to giving and that servant leadership. So that's where our culture began and continues. And I'll share one other quick story with you. Probably about five years ago, we had a visitor and industrial psychologist, come look at our company, and she was there to, to do some reviews for an ESOP under the guidelines and laws of Aesop's, you get that some some reviews on on compensation and things done like that? Well, after she spent a couple of days at our plant there in Jasper, she wanted to Zach and Doug and said, You know, I'm just amazed at your culture. You know, I've written books on culture, and this is culture, you know, when you walk out to the plant floor, people smile, no shaking your hand, hey, how you doing? And, and people seem genuinely happy to be here. I think once workers in a factory setting that that's difficult to to create, and she went decided to write a book on Jasper on our culture, and it really caught a lot of things that I'm just touching on. But yeah, I've been blessed to find them 25 years ago and continue to work with them.

JT Rimbey  33:39
I totally get why. Jasper, outside sales reps, Buck industry averages with retention and sticking around longer. Would you speak a little bit to the hiring process that you put an OSR through to determine whether they're going to be a cultural fit for Jasper?

Joe McDonald  34:00
Absolutely. Let me mention one other thing on the ESOP that that helps that retention. We have outperformed I think 99% of publicly traded companies with our ESOP and a performance in or even a number. So that has helped you know, when you look at 100%, he saw I'm sure you hear a lot of companies go ESOP and sometimes you can kind of cringe because there's been some, some horror stories on that too. And sometimes you hear 50% 49%, but to go 100% That's commitment. Right. That's been so yeah, our hiring process is very involved. It starts obviously with our internal recruiter, we have our all our candidates fill out a personality profile, so we understand who they are and their personality. You know, when you look at our most successful reps, we know who they are and their personality, so we're looking for a certain personality, and not that any personality is wrong, but for outside sales, you need an outgoing personality, right for one part of it. And then what's involved There's that initial interview with your sales manager. And if he's comfortable with that candidate, we will have him do a full day ride along with another rep. And we want a full day because we want to see their energy level, we want to see how they interact not only with our rep but with the customers throughout the day. And then after that full day ride along, they'll sit down with their regional vice president face to face, and then myself will do a phone interview. And then finally, the president of our company, Zack Bauer, who I report to, will speak to every candidate for outside sales as well for a final discussion on the phone, when you have that many people touching someone, and then we get together and discuss it, share our notes and decide if we want to extend an offer to that person. But not only from our perspective to them, but their perspective to us. Because I'd rather hear a candidate say, this isn't for me, thank you for showing me. And we thank them for that. Because it's not for everybody the culture that you talked about the structure that we have. And again, that's the beginning of this, you talked about the two type leaders and I agree with you, and you have to have a measurement, you have to have a process in place, and you have to have trust, and they're out there on the road every day and going to get it but we're trying to give them that path to get there. It's really a mold between those two, but there's got to be trust between both. And in that candidate process. They may feel uncomfortable for some reason. And again, we sometimes look in the mirror, do we not share it correctly? Because there's some people that man we really want to get this guy we think he would fit in? Well, when they decide not to, again, we respect that decision. But we're also always looking at refining what we're doing.

JT Rimbey  36:43
Last question, what advice would you give to other sales leaders that are hesitant to make their reps, document their actions, document what their plan of attack could be for the coming weeks, that are hesitant to track activity?

Joe McDonald  37:02
It's tough, because when you've got reps out there, and you want to kind of implement something like this, it's going to be difficult, right? Change is difficult, but it has to be done. I say this when we're talking to shop owners, and we do a lot of consultative sales or shop owners on their business as a whole. And when you've got technicians, and they're not following the process, where you've got one that is turning great hours and making you tons of money, but he comes in when he wants. He's not a team player, you have poison in that shop. But the shop owner is so worried about getting rid of that Prima Donna, because of the money he's turning, but when he finally does, I haven't had one shop owner regretted because everybody comes to him and says, what took you so long? Why were you letting them do this? When we couldn't do that? I only share that because it's irrelevant. When you bring it over to this, it's no different. If you're not treating everybody the same, you're gonna have people out there and say, Why is he getting away with this? Why is that happening? So when we implemented this, and it's been implemented since I've been here, but the accountability on the statistical part of our job is weighed just as heavily as your sales success here, our reps that are growing in the top and company, they're doing the same thing as the guy that may be struggling to share. We coordinate it into boxes, you know, what are you doing? If you're struggling in sales? And I'm gonna first thing I'm gonna look at is your statistics, just the basics? Are you doing 12 good calls> Are you doing the process? If you're doing the process and struggling with calls, I will go to the front of the line and battle with you every day. And we're going to figure out what it is. It's something you must not be relating to the customer, something's going on. Because our process works, right? If the process isn't there, and many times it's not, I'll say, when you get to these numbers, and you're still struggling in sales, I'm with you, but get to these numbers for me. So going back to my advice, you have to implement it. And there's no soft way of doing it. You have to do it. And you have to hold everybody to the same accountability, no matter what the best guy is doing. And I'll share something with you. We've had people leave Jasper, believe it or not, they want to go do something else. They want to try something else, maybe they get an opportunity to be a sales leader. And that's the biggest reason we have some sales reps leave. The opportunity isn't here right now for that promotion. And they're offered something that is something they want to go after. I can tell you, the phone calls that I've gotten, and I still talk to these folks. And some of them maybe battled our system of selling and some of our accountability when they were here. But when he went and took on this new role as a sales leader, what's the first thing they implemented?

39:44
Process process, right?

Joe McDonald  39:46
So they understand that what gets measured gets done, and that's really where it comes through. So the biggest piece of advice is just start small. As I shared with you, we've brought other companies into our umbrella. And we're sharing some of these processes with them. You can't go from where they're at now to where we're at, it's just not going to work. But start off with your average number of calls, what's the average number your calls and reps are doing now? It's nine, what are your best guys doing? Don't do 14? Let's put 11 in there. And that's what expectation that 11 and let's start there, and no, because you got to breed success, what is successful? That's where you draw the numbers from right? What are my most successful people doing? And that's the excuse you use, Hey, guys, our top three guys year in and year out, are doing this. Let's implement this everywhere else. And you get that bias.

JT Rimbey  40:38
When you have a model of success, it's like Novocaine, you just gotta give it time. It's gonna work.

Joe McDonald  40:45
We've changed it over the years, your things have changed. You can't be not understanding where you're not listening to your team. And that, hey, I'll call it anything. If you've got a good idea, let's go for it. And some things have worked. But at the end of the day, in sales, it's numbers. It's a numbers game, everybody knows that. It's what numbers works for your sale, figure that out, put everybody on that same same numbers game and then and then tweak it. One of the reasons we're going with Map My Customer is, you know, our internal program, we've outgrown it, we have to bring in another program that will give those added tools to our reps today. When you talk about processes, that's what Map My Customer is going to bring to us and take away some of those additional things our guys need to do. You talked about administrative. Right now we're asking our guys to do more administrative than they should have to do. So we're excited to bring Map My Customers on board.

JT Rimbey  41:43
So thank you so much. Huge thank you to you huge thank you to Jasper allowing us to steal your for a little bit today. It's always a pleasure learning from you. 

Thank you for listening today. And thank you to our sponsor, Map My Customers. Traditional CRMs, they were never designed with outside sales reps in mind. They're too cumbersome, too complex and too time consuming. Along with a glaring lack of mobile friendly options. Half of our customers use Map My Customers as the CRM of record, and the other half uses Map My Customers as the tip of the spear for their existing CRM. Designed specifically for outside sales reps, a mobile first platform helping to strategically segment accounts, routing and mapping, activity logging and much more. Remember, ease of use drives adoption. Adoption delivers data, and data delivers insights. Visit MapMyCustomers.me for more info. 

Be sure to subscribe to the Field Sales Leadership Guide podcast, share with your friends, colleagues, and even family members. If you do have questions or comments for Joe or myself, send us a message. We'd love to answer your questions and hear what you think about the episode. Tune into the next episode as we bring on David Sioma from Johnstone, thanks a bunch for listening today.