The Legacy of the Aborigines Advancement League with Aunty Esme Bamblett

What is worth saving in this country if not our history?

In this powerful episode of Community Conversations by Clothing The Gaps, we sit down with Dr Aunty Esme Bamblett, a respected Elder and long-serving CEO of the Aborigines Advancement League.

With over 50 years of advocacy, leadership, and lived experience, as the current serving CEO of the Aborigines Advancement League, Aunty Esme shares:

• The truth about assimilation and its impact on Aboriginal communities
• The origins and legacy of the Aboriginal Advancement League
• Stories of resilience, activism, and cultural survival
• The role of leaders like William Cooper and Pastor Doug Nicholls
• The importance of identity, kinship, and community
• Why Aboriginal culture is something Australia must protect
• What real allyship and “upstanding” looks like today
• Her vision for the next seven generations

This is more than a conversation.

It’s a history lesson, a call to action, and a reminder of what truly matters.

Chapters

00:00 “What Is Worth Saving in This Country?”
00:25 Welcome to Community Conversations
02:05 Aunty Esme’s Early Life & Family Story
05:08 Education, Motherhood & Leadership Journey
06:41 A Legacy of Activism & Political Strength
08:01 The Origins of the Aboriginal Advancement League
09:46 Community, Culture & Collective Responsibility
11:10 Walking in the Footsteps of Giants
13:09 The Power of Early Aboriginal Activism
15:54 Standing Against Global Injustice
17:15 Why Safe Spaces Like The League Matter
19:22 Fighting for Land, Rights & Community
20:06 The Truth About Assimilation
22:27 Place, Belonging & Cultural Safety
23:33 Saving Lake Tyers & Community Land
25:38 The Black Power Movement & Cultural Pride
27:04 “Black Is Beautiful” – A Turning Point
30:56 The League as “Mother” of Community
33:31 From Activism to Treaty Conversations
36:11 What The League Means Today
38:11 Thinking in Seven Generations
40:01 How to Support & Take Action
41:18 Why Aboriginal Culture Must Be Protected

Transcript

Aunty Esme (00:00.14)

Assimilation was like someone said, you pour a bottle of wine into the river and what do you have? You don't have wine anymore. I think that is the epitome of who we are, that we look after each other. It doesn't matter where the knobs come from, they're part of us and we're part of them. What is worth saving in this country? And I think Aboriginal culture is worth saving.

Sarah - speaker-1 (00:25.358)

Hello and welcome to Community Conversations, the podcast from Clothing The Gaps. Here at Clothing the Gaps, we often say that it's more than a tee, it's a conversation starter. And this podcast is where those conversations continue as we sit down with inspiring people from community to talk about justice, advocacy, and the stories of the movements that got us to where we are today and those shaping the future. My name is Sarah Sherry. I'm non-Indigenous and the co-founder alongside Gunditjmara woman, Laura Thompson.

And we're all about working to each other's strengths in our partnership. I love hosting and asking questions and Laura prefers to be interviewed. So here we are. We're recording on Wurundjeri and Bunuroung country today and I honor the traditional owners of these lands and pay my respects to elders past and present and acknowledge that this always was and always will be Aboriginal land. Today I am absolutely thrilled and honored to be joined by Aunty Esme, Dr. Aunty Esme, pastor Dr. Aunty Esme Bairlet actually.

Aunty Esme is Bangerang, Taungurung and Wiradjuri woman with family ties across Victoria and New South Wales. Aunty Esme is a respected Elder, having been involved in Aboriginal affairs for over 50 years in various capacities. You're also a long serving CEO of the Aborigines Advancement League in Thornbury, Aunty Esme, which is one of the oldest Aboriginal community controlled organisations in Victoria and the country.

For generations, the league has been at the heart of Aboriginal political organising, advocacy and community support. It has played a major role in the fight for Aboriginal rights in Victoria and across Australia and continues to be a powerful place of organising culture, community and resistance today. So Aunty Esme, welcome to Community Conversations. How are you going?

Aunty Esme - speaker-0 (02:05.998)

I'm really good, Sarah, and thank you for having me here. First of all, I want to acknowledge country. We're on the land of the Wurundjeri people, and I do pay my respects to their elders past and present, and thank them for having us on country, and thank them for having the Aborigines' Advancement League here for 70 years next year.

speaker-1 (02:26.114)

What an incredible legacy. And we are going to dive right into the history of the league, where the league started from, the movements that it's been a part of and started across the country. for the moment, I just wanted our listeners to get to know you a little bit more, Aunty Esme. Aunty Esme, tell us a little bit about you. Who's Aunty Esme Bamblett?

speaker-0 (02:44.514)

Who is she? Not sure. No, I was born in Leighton, New South Wales actually. my grandmother and her family came down to Victoria when I was six years old. So I've been here since then. The only reason she came down here was because my grandfather was murdered and she had 14 children at the time. The youngest one was...

seven months old. So she had 14 children. She lost her husband. It was a time when they depended on shearing to get some money. Didn't have a lot of money. That depended on seasonal work. So she came down to Victoria, bought all her family because the local council member had said to her, you better take your children because they're going to take them off you. And in those days, if you didn't have a husband, they took the kids. So she moved around. She moved around six times.

to avoid the welfare taking us, because I was with her. It was an extended family situation. Mum was a single parent and Nan was very important in my life. And we moved around on, I was on Kumbragunja Mission, I was on Rumballara. We lived in Fitzroy. We lived all over Victoria. And that was my early days. I went to school.

in Shepparton Girl School. Then I finished school at Nathalia High School. I went right through to Year 12. I went to La Trobe University in 1970. Stayed a year there. Then I met my husband, my first husband, got married and went to Queensland. I was up there for four years. I had my two oldest daughters. And then we came back down here. I wanted to go to Teachers College. Come back to go to Teachers College. I did three years at Teachers College.

He died in 1979. So then I had after that, I stayed down here for a while, had three more children, got married again, went to live in Shepparton. Stayed up there for a number of years. And then I came back down here, worked down here and yeah, been here ever since, been here for 26 years this time. I became a pastor in 2000. So I've been the pastor of Barak Christian Ministries since then.

speaker-0 (05:05.292)

So 26 years on the 2nd of July, which is really good.

speaker-1 (05:08.814)

It's amazing, Aunty Esme. What an incredible story of the way that, I guess, and acknowledging your nan in that as well, of the way that she moved to protect you all as well in her family, and then moving back to Shep and continuing that. So you were teaching in Shep, Aunty Esme?

speaker-0 (05:27.598)

teaching for a while, worked in career education. Yeah, so I was up there for a while. And Nan was actually part of a delegation with pastors, her pastor Doug Nichols and Alec Jackamos. She was part of a delegation to actually get people moved off Rambalarra and into housing, commission houses. So she was pretty much like that. We've got a very political family, always about Aboriginal rights.

I like to tell the story about her. So when she got married, she couldn't read or write because on the mission she'd grown up at, she was born at Cummeragunja and grew up at Cummeragunja and went to school there. But the mission manager's wife, she had her cleaning the house instead of at school. So she didn't learn to read and write. And then she married my grandfather and he could read and write. And he used to read to her. In those days it was cowboy books.

You might not have heard them then, but I used to actually read them. So he'd read it to her and then one day stopped in the middle of the cowboy book, because probably by that time he was sick of reading to her, don't know. And so she had to teach herself, she taught herself to read, but she never could write. So she was amazing woman.

speaker-1 (06:41.12)

And you really do come from a strong line of political activists and people who fought for Aboriginal rights and continue to Aunty Esme. And how did you become connected to the League? How did you become then the CEO of the League?

speaker-0 (06:54.734)

Well, the story of the league is amazing because when I was a kid, when we were on Rambalara, we came down every year. Once a year they brought us down to a holiday program. It was the Harold Blair holiday program. And we would go and stay with a non-Aboriginal family for a week. And so we did that. And I did that three years in a row. We came down to Melbourne. Then when I went to year 10, 11, and 12, it was at Natalia at a hostel there.

speaker-1 (07:03.437)

Yes.

speaker-0 (07:24.694)

and the league had opened that hostel. The Kew branch of the league actually opened that hostel, so I stayed at the hostel. Came down to Melbourne, I went to university and the first year I got a Trugganini Scholarship, which the league had started at Melbourne Uni. And then I came back as vice president of the league and then I went in as CEO and I've been there 18 years, I think, this year.

speaker-1 (07:48.91)

Let's go right back to the start. What year did the league formally begin? And there was a couple of different previous iterations of where we see the league at today, isn't there?

speaker-0 (08:01.176)

Well, there was the Australian Aborigines League and that was run by William Cooper and Jackie Patton. And so those guys there were the forerunners, but that stopped when William Cooper passed away and stopped for a few years. And then the league started. It started in 1957 by Sir Pastor Doug Nicholls and three non-Aboriginal people. Stan Davie was also a pastor with the Churches of Christ. Gordon Bryant and Doris Blackburn, were the ones who started the league up.

The reason was that Pastor Doug had gone on a football trip and he saw, it was in WA, and he saw the people in the Warburton Ranges, how poor they were, how they looked really awful, things were happening. And he found out they were doing rocket testing there. And so he came back to Victoria, he got Bill Graydon to go over and do a video of it. He brought the film back and they started the Save the Aborigines Committee. And from that they said, we need a powerful lobby group.

And so they started the Aborigines Advancement League for that purpose.

speaker-1 (09:03.118)

I was reflecting on that this morning actually with a friend, Aunty Esme, and one of the things that I think is really powerful in that is that in the 50s, there was still a lot of, and today there still is as well, but a lot of things that needed campaigning for about Aboriginal rights in Victoria as well, but Sir Paster Doug saw that, what was happening in the Warburton Ranges and knew that he needed to do something about that as well. think it could have been something that he could have.

seen and gone, there's enough work to do at home. I'll just focus on what's happening in Victoria. But no, he rallied momentum and support to go and advocate and work alongside the WA mob over there. I think that's incredible.

speaker-0 (09:46.944)

I think that is the epitome of who we are, that we look after each other and doesn't matter where the mobs come from, they're part of us and we're part of them. And I think that's really what Sir Pastor Doug Nicholl saw. You always look at someone who's worse off than you and think that person needs help. You don't think about your own circumstances as much, but he did think about us as well. He did a lot of work for us. I remember a couple of years ago, we were sort of looking at the philosophy of the league and thinking, you know,

might need to change it from, you know, the early days and whatever. And we looked at it and we couldn't change it. It's still the same. And one of the things was to maintain and grow urban Aboriginal identity. That was one of the philosophies of it. And that's what we continue to do. To have a place for Aboriginal people, we continue to have a place. So it has not changed in its objectives all those years. And we've been through a lot of things like

There was a Black Power movement, we've got to remember that. I was part of that Black Power, I was one of those activists. there was lot of things that happened, but the League went through everything. And the leadership that our mob showed as well is just incredible. The mural we've got there with the, we walk in the footprints of giants, that's so true. They were giants.

speaker-1 (11:10.7)

Yeah, and the mural that Aunty Esme is referring to is this incredible collage, I would say, all of these amazing faces of Aboriginal leaders and community members who have paved the way forward to where we are today and added layers and layers of change and standing up for what's right and pushing momentum forward, isn't it? There's hundreds of faces on that mural, isn't there, Aunty Esme?

speaker-0 (11:38.03)

And there's a lot, they have the board members over 60 years, because we did that for our 60th anniversary, plus a couple of people we added in there. But they're mainly the board members. And then you think about that and it's actually a history. That's a history lesson. I've actually used that in my cultural awareness programs as a history lesson, because it really does talk about pre-colonisation, about colonisation, about the years of activism. And it's finished off.

The last three metres, it's an interesting mural really, it was done on Chipboard initially and then that was being wrecked up from years and years of standing. It's been there since 1982. It wasn't at the league for that long, it was actually in Northcote opposite the town hall and then it was moved to the league and then it's been at the league and so then we did a digital image of it which was really good because it allowed us to do that. But the last three metres that we did, it was

There was three meters short really for the digital image. So we put the Fitzroy stars and the Stolen Gems and that in that last three meters as a bringing it up to contemporary. But where it finished, I like where it finished in one way because he was looking towards a future and there was the scales there and it was justice or just us. And I liked the question, it was a question mark and he was red, black and yellow like the flag. he was like,

Have we got something to look forward to?

speaker-1 (13:09.518)

years, my years, spoke a little bit before just then about William Cooper as well and the work that came before the official coming together of the league in 57, did you say? 57. Yeah, in 57. Can you talk a little bit about the role that that pre-work of William Cooper and others in those earlier moments as well?

speaker-0 (13:21.71)

57

speaker-0 (13:35.468)

I think I can't talk about that unless I talk about the resilience and strength of our mob. And go back to the fighters, know, people like Mosquito and, you know, the Jandamarra, the ones that fought down there, you know, people who fought with the massacres and they just resisted. you look back on the history and you think, how did you get through it? You know, and you see some shows today that show that and you think, what an amazing mob to do that.

speaker-1 (13:40.333)

Yeah.

speaker-0 (14:04.302)

But the activism, the political activism is a real strategy. And you know, it did start with the day of mourning. It started before that. And when you think about the day of mourning and how they got people up there, how did they get people to go to Sydney? You know, and they got people to go to Sydney and they had planned for one venue and they said, no, you can't do it because they were a bit worried about all these Aboriginal people doing anything. So they had to go to another venue, but they...

They put out the Manifesto of Aboriginal Rights and William and Jack and all the ones that were there, pretty intelligent people really, and worked really hard for us. So they did a lot of, that was the really, probably the beginning of the political struggle, the political rights. And yeah, a lot of those guys that did that. But the day of mourning was an incredible event really, when you think about it. All of Australia was celebrating.

Australia Day or whatever they called it back then. And there was a day of mourning, of recognition of the impact of colonisation on our people. Another thing about William Cooper, he's my hero in a lot of ways. I've got a lot of heroes by the way, but he's one of them. But the reason is because he actually objected to what the Nazis were doing to the Jewish people. And he took a petition to the...

they marched, he got a mob, mob to march to the German consulate in Melbourne to present a petition to them on about the day of the night, when they were going to wipe out the Jewish race forever. And he's actually on it in the museum, the Holocaust Museum in Israel now for what he did. So I admire the fact that he cared outside his circle.

speaker-1 (15:54.156)

and saw injustice enacted on it, really, no matter who that injustice was being inflicted upon. And we have to remember the truth that in that time when he spoke out against those actions of the Nazis, nobody else in the world was saying a thing. And he stood up and he did that.

speaker-0 (16:13.568)

Even when they were on the boat and they went to countries, countries knocked them back. They just did not stick up for the Jewish people. It reminds me of today, honestly, the anti-Jewish, anti-Semitism is shocking and it's unreasonable.

speaker-1 (16:28.642)

And I think, Annie, is when I think about William Cooper as well, you spoke about in 1938, William Cooper and others declaring it as the 26th of January is a day of mourning in the lead up to the bicentennial celebrations. We really feel like a clue in the gaps that we can't talk about the work that we do today of talking about January 26th being not a day to celebrate without acknowledging that this is just the next layer of that conversation. So when...

When that was declared over day morning, where did they end up in Sydney, Esmo?

speaker-0 (16:59.052)

I think there was some town hall or something they ended up there, but it wasn't the original venue. I think they were worried about what was going to happen. They were scared of us.

speaker-1 (17:09.358)

Annie, why was it so important for Aboriginal people to have a space like the League?

speaker-0 (17:15.99)

I think it was important for a number of reasons. I think one of things about the League is it's a place. It's place. When people came to Melbourne, they congregated in Fitzroy. So wherever there was an Aboriginal family, Aboriginal families went. That's who we are. We look for each other. So the League was a place that you could come to and feel safe. Cultural safety is really important for our mob and for any mob, actually. The stats relating to our people are shocking.

So you need to a place where you can emphasise the stats and do something about it. And that's really what the league did. Not only about the Warburton ranges, but also about the mob in Victoria, the mobs around Victoria, making sure that people had rights and they were looked after in a way that was culturally inclusive. Like in those days back then, if you were an Aboriginal woman and you were pregnant and went to hospital, you had the baby on a veranda.

You didn't have it in a waltz. So things like that had to change. And people like William Cooper and Pastor Doug Nicholls was his nephew. Pastor Doug Nicholls and the ones that worked hard, they worked to stop that and to change it. And they've done a lot of work and they did a fantastic job, actually. That's why they're my heroes. I'm not, know, Aunty Geri Briggs and Aunty Marge Tucker and Aunty Liz Hoffman and Aunty Merle Morgan, you know, they are incredible people.

It's not only the men, it's the women as well. And you know, they worked hard for just to get rights. We've got a treaty with 1%. That's sort of saying something about our mob and how determined we are and how resilient, how strong and how we're still here today and still fighting. But it came from this lot that went before us. It came from William Cooper and Pastor Doug. Not only Pastor Doug, but Lady Glass-Nicolls, you know. Those people put a lot of effort in.

So I think that's what the league stands for. The league stands for community, for us, all of us.

speaker-1 (19:22.83)

And there have been so many different communities that the league has worked with and supported and advocated alongside over its story as well. Ania, as well, and I think about two in particular, think about there is Camaragunja, as you already spoke about in terms of advocating for better housing standards and also just ensuring that community up there had access to country and that they were able to keep that connection. And then

that as well is, was also so important down at Lake Tyres. When we think about the role that the league played in maintaining connection to Lake Tyres. Do you want to speak a little bit about some of those moments within the league's history?

speaker-0 (20:06.572)

Yes, I think that without the league, our mob would have been really assimilated, I believe. Assimilation was the policy and that meant that you just became part of the community. Assimilation was like someone said, you you pour a bottle of wine into the river and what do you have? You don't have wine anymore, you have river. And the assimilation policy was there, removed off country onto the missions and reserves.

One thing we lost was the connection to country. We didn't lose it, I think it was just placed somewhere else for a while, because we all connected to country today. that assimilation process was taking, removing people. And it was a deliberate attempt to, it was a deliberate genocide, let's face it. So the League really went to bat for Lake Ties.

Because then what they wanted to do, they wanted to remove people off country, then they wanted to put them back wherever they could, wherever they wanted. So when they were used to being on the missions together, then all of a sudden they were trying to put them back into towns and that, and the towns and that didn't want them, didn't want anything to do with them. So you've got people who were displaced and got nowhere to go. So the fight for the missions was really important to keep them going.

And Cummeragunja, even though it's in New South Wales, it's mainly Victorian people on Cummeragunja. And well, was Maloga to start off with, then it became Cummeragunja Station. But those missions were really important. Lake Condah, Framlingham, all the missions became a symbol of togetherness in the end. And that's what the fight was for. was to keep them, it keeps the country too. Like we own very little land in Victoria.

The land we do owns mission land. And that was at least something that was given back. was a attempt to take it. Plus the Aboriginal Needs Advancement League, that was given to us, you know, where we are today. And I love it. It was an old tip. There are soil issues, but I love it. You can go and sit there. You have space and you have place.

speaker-0 (22:27.052)

And you know, it's not just a place where a business is and you go in these offices and you sit down and that's it. It's actually a place you can relax, a place where you can feel the silence, I think, and think about the past, but also think about the present and the future. So I think it's really important for that reason.

speaker-1 (22:46.35)

Absolutely. And as you spoke a little bit then about the way that government decisions and policies shifted, I guess, purpose of what government saw the purpose of missions being as well of at one point, I guess they were a place where they forced Aboriginal people off land too, to put them in, put community in one spot. And then there was big shifts around.

how money and budgets and things were meant to be managed and I tried to close them all down because and a lot of the missions were left with mission managers and no money, horrific standards of living, horrific health experiences. So what ended up happening with Lake Tyres?

speaker-0 (23:33.304)

Well, Lake Tyres, they try to take Lake Tyres off the community. And isn't it beautiful? Have you been down there? I'm thinking, wow, that is amazing, that place. It really is. But they wanted to take it. Of course, people would have been eyeing it off. It's actually a gem, isn't it? And so they tried to take it off, but the league fought for that not to happen. Save Like, in 1968, I think it was Save Like Lake Tyres campaign.

speaker-1 (23:38.456)

Yeah, it's gorgeous.

speaker-1 (23:50.52)

Donning.

speaker-0 (24:02.154)

And so Pastor Doug led that campaign, so the government couldn't take it. They tried, but they couldn't. Same thing happened with the others. Like, Cummeragunja is New South Wales, so it was really going against New South Wales Protection Board for that. But yeah, the league was Lake Tyres, Lake Condah, Framlingham, Ebeneezer. They were all, you know, attempts by government to, I think, really to shift the dial from assimilation to wiping out.

the whole culture. Like you weren't allowed to speak your language on the missions, you weren't allowed to practice culture, you weren't allowed to do anything. So they were, it was an extra attempt to, you know, get rid of the black problem.

speaker-1 (24:46.338)

And I guess they probably thought that if they closed the missions and the black problem as you just called it wouldn't be their issue to then have to deal with anymore at all.

speaker-0 (24:55.424)

And they could have that country back. Beautiful country back.

speaker-1 (25:01.026)

That's it. And I think that, the way that the league assisted in the organizing and the community gathering and the garnering of public funds to support this work as well was incredible. And when there was that, that incoming of the Black Power movement, do you want to talk us through that? What was that time like in that you were a part of that? That would have been a little bit scary too, or perhaps a

A bit of hesitation was there at all to go, well, this is the way that it's been done for a while, but we think a change is needed.

speaker-0 (25:38.734)

Well, I think first I have to mention that there were 50 branches of the Aboriginal News Advancement League and 48 of those branches were non-Aboriginal people and they were amazing. They were amazing supporters. They were allies. They were upstanders. And I think about when I was at Natalia Hostel, the Kew branch started that. They raised the money for that hostel up there for the children on Cummeragunjato go there to go to school. So that was really important. So I think about all the people that

speaker-1 (25:41.901)

Yes.

speaker-0 (26:08.038)

supported us, they supported the League to get funding in those early days, which is really important. The Black Power movement and the good thing about that mob that were there like Gordon Bryant and Doris Blackburn and Stan Davie and all the people that supported them, they were willing to move when Aboriginal people were prepared to take over. When Black Power came in, and I loved Black Power, I was, I was mad about it.

It was the first time in my life that I heard that black was beautiful. To be honest, we'd been told that you're you know, you're black, you're this, you're that, you know, you're from the mission, you're not, you've got nothing, you were that sort of people. And then all of a sudden there's this thought that comes in this movement that you are actually beautiful. And we need, we've got rights.

speaker-1 (26:41.228)

Yeah.

speaker-0 (27:04.29)

We need to stand up for our rights. We need to take our rights. We can't just be told all the time that we're nothing and not do anything about it. So that was amazing. It was a revival. It was cultural revival. It was all of a sudden, realising who you are as an Aboriginal person, realising that we have so much to contribute. You know, people say that you've got nothing to contribute. You've got so much to contribute, even today. You know, we listen to the Paulines of the world.

and you've got nothing to contribute, but that is not true. And Aboriginal people, like non-Aboriginal people don't realise how amazing Aboriginal culture is. And because people aren't, they're not around it, they don't live it. mean, culture is lived. They don't live it, so they don't see it. And you know, they miss out on so much. And I think that those years, the 70s, they were wonderful years. They were years of optimism.

You know, that was one of the things you were all of a sudden you're optimistic. And the non-original people moved over. They did not resent it. They just said, fair enough, you guys are ready to do it.

speaker-1 (28:15.81)

in that, I think, Aunty Esme. I think, you know, those reflections are still really important reflections for today as well. And Aunty Esme, love you've got for our listeners that can't see, you have got this giant smile on your face. There is a twinkle in your eye when you talk about this time. When that shift, that leadership shift happened at the league, what was, what did that look like and what were those next chapters of the league like in that, in that swing?

speaker-0 (28:41.656)

Well, there was a bit of angst, you know, when you read about it, there was a bit of angst. I wasn't actually on the board of the league or anything then, but I think there was a bit of angst because some people didn't feel that it was the right time and some people did. And, you know, people are entitled to their opinions as well. Like we're like everybody else. We don't have a hundred percent consensus. Not really at all with a lot of things. Probably in sport.

speaker-1 (29:07.615)

And nor should anybody expect Aboriginal people to think, believe, feel and say the same way about anything, are they?

speaker-0 (29:10.947)

Hi.

speaker-0 (29:14.27)

Well, people do expect that, but anyway, so yeah, it was a time, but it was a time of reflection too, on our part. There was a time of, well, are we ready to take over? Can we do it? Because we've been told so long that we couldn't. Can we do it? So there was a lot of things happening and, but it worked and people did move over and our mob stayed, know, stayed in the game. They kept going and, and that's why the

The league is 70 years old because she kept her, I call her the mother. She's the mother organization. All the orgs come out of her and I call her the old girl, even though she's younger than me. That's not good enough. But I call her the old girl because she's the old girl and she's the mother and she's warm and she's caring. And I would hope that she'll be like that forever. You know, I always say to people, I'm there for a little time.

I'll put my footprint down, you can follow it or not. Someone else will come along, but you've got to move. Everyone has to move, but you leave something. And I'm hoping to leave something of myself there when I go. So when someone comes after me, it embraces them. I want the league to always be the mother that embraces any Aboriginal person and non-Aboriginal people.

You know, you can come there and just sit and reflect. We don't mind. You can come and learn about us. But yeah, it's about embracing. I think she's, I want her to continue to be a warm place and a cultural place and a place where you can just be you.

speaker-1 (30:56.726)

And I think you really have created and so many others alongside you, Yanni, as may have really created that special space at the league where it is, you can feel that warmth when you're there. Even for me as a non-Aboriginal person, you can really feel the power of the league. And when we think about all of those other incredible organisations, community controlled organisations that have come out of the birth of the league, can you talk to us a little bit about how the influence of then of starting like

the legal services and the health services and what the link across all of those other Aboriginal community controlled organisations is today.

speaker-0 (31:35.598)

think that the other organisations come out of the league because of the necessity. And the first one was the Victorian Aboriginal Legal Service because really even today our incarceration rates are through the sky. Out of Home Care, that's VACCA, it's another one. The Health Service, the Chronic Health is really, the stats are terrible. We don't have good stats. You needed services to actually specialise in those areas because those areas were so...

Well, doing so much damage really to the community. So you needed to have specialty in that. So you can see how the league says, all right then, you guys set that up and set that up. Maintaining a relationship though with each other. All our organizations, our statewide peaks and all the other echoes around the state maintain relationships with each other because really we're all in it together.

We all have the same purpose. We all have the same goals, but it's about you specialise in your area. Come to me when you need something, like mum's, know, come to mother. If mother can help, she will.

speaker-1 (32:46.806)

And Mum always knows, you can always go back to Mum.

speaker-0 (32:49.966)

So that's really what happened and it really was inevitable and it's inevitable when they grow up they leave home. It's inevitable.

speaker-1 (32:59.874)

Yeah, absolutely. I love the way that you talk about the league, like a person that's living and breathing and growing with us and growing alongside community in those different iterations of what's needed as well today. Can you ever imagine when you think back to Aunty Esme who is marching and protesting and ready to, you know, stand up and change leadership at the league that

We'd be talking today in 2026 about a treaty for Victoria.

speaker-0 (33:31.99)

No, not really. I never imagined it. It's sort of like a dream and a wish list. And you have a wish list and you keep it in mind, but then you're crossing things off because you didn't get that or you didn't get that. didn't really look. I do believe that it was a wish list that our Mob put to the government and they took it up and said yes. And we're like, okay, what's the catch here?

But the government's been fantastic. know, the fact that they took it up, the fact that they funded the assembly, the fact that they even had three parts of the assembly actually. And I was looking at all the things we did. I'm actually doing a big book for the league on all the treaty stuff, you know, just for future generations to look at it. But I was looking at it the other day and I was like, wow, the amount of work we did to get to where we got.

People think that's easy, that was not easy. So I think, you know, the things that we've achieved have been, look, not only us, Sarah. We've achieved what we've achieved because of all the support. We need supporters, we need allies, we need upstanders. We need people to say, don't be so racist about Aboriginal people, you know. Try to see all the good in our culture and what we can offer.

I would not want to be in any other culture. I love our kinship system. Best kinship system in the world. It really is. I love the fact that we care about each other. I love the elders, eldership. And I love the fact that we invite anybody in. And I remember Nan, we were poorest church mice, but church mice probably were richer than us really. But if you came to visit us and it was dinner time,

you got fed. didn't matter, whatever was on the table was shared with whoever came. That was us. And I think today that's us. And that's what I would never want to lose. I would never want to lose us. And I think, you know, us is really important. And I think the wider community can learn from us.

speaker-1 (35:30.968)

Yeah.

speaker-1 (35:52.032)

I couldn't agree more, Aunty Esme. I think for me as a non-Aboriginal person, my life has become so much richer and deeper and broader. Aunty Esme, I want to just ask you a couple of questions about your time specifically at the league. What does, tell us a little bit about what the league is, does and means in 2026.

speaker-0 (36:11.916)

I think what I have attempted to do in my time there is to bring into the place the cultural artifacts, you know, not the spears and the boomerangs and that, although we have them as well, but the people, you know, the reason the mural's up the back, and that was really the Lord, I've got to say this.

That mural that's up there, that was going to go on the back of the big mural, the St. George's Road mural, so that when people paid footy they could see it. But when the guys did it and I put it up, they were like postage stamps.

speaker-1 (36:49.324)

Yeah. It would have been tiny down the back there.

speaker-0 (36:53.132)

And I was like, no. And then I was looking around, where could we put this mural? We could put it up on there. We could do it there. And then the shed came in and it is the place. And I was like, it's a reminder to everybody about where we come from. Legacy is important. And what the league is about today is legacy. It's where we came from. It's who we are. It's what people have done before us and what we want people to do after us. I think that's what I've tried to do.

In 2026, I would say it's a place of welcome for everybody. It's a place of knowledge. It's a place of understanding. I think it's a place where you can relax, you know. It's a place of reflection of where we are today. But I think it's also a reminder of strength and resilience and resolve.

speaker-1 (37:47.754)

I love that, Aunty Esme. And I really feel like it's so important for us all to know the history of what's come before us so that we know which bit in the story we're up to and so that we know that, yeah, we're just continuing that next bit of work that comes after. Aunty Esme, what's your hope for Aboriginal community leadership here in this next stage of that journey and those next footsteps?

speaker-0 (38:11.832)

Well, when I was thinking about the Treaty, we had people come from overseas and talk about their treaties. And one woman said something that really stuck in my mind through the whole Treaty journey. And that was, think about it in terms of seven generations' time. So while I was doing the Treaty, I thought about what do I want my descendants to have in seven generations' time? And I know that wealth is important, right?

Generational wealth is important. But what I really want them to know is who they are as Aboriginal people. I want them to be proud of who they are. I want them to have a strong identity. I think you can do anything with a strong identity. Of course, I want them to be Christians. That goes without saying. But I want them to, I also want them to be well off. You know, I want them not to be scrounging around and.

I don't want them to be in the third that are diastrates. I don't want any diastrates mobs. In seven generations time, I don't want there to be a diastrates mob. I want them to be articulate, well-educated, but I want them to know who they are as Aboriginal people. And I want them to pass on to their children that legacy that they got, that they received from us, from their families. I want them to pass it on. So we always know that this country

is Aboriginal land that was never ceded and it speaks about Aboriginal people.

speaker-1 (39:44.686)

And yes, for people who are listening to our conversation today and want to know how they can support the league or get involved or for community who, you know, have seen the league but don't really know how to reach out, how can people stay in touch with the league?

speaker-0 (40:01.614)

Well, one of the things we need right now are volunteers for the Fitzroy Stars Football Netball Club. You're welcome to come down and volunteer for us. I'm president of the Fitzroy

speaker-1 (40:10.89)

You are also president of one of the many hats that you wear.

speaker-0 (40:13.77)

Yeah. one of the hats. But we welcome volunteers. We need volunteers. That's one thing that you can do. The other thing is we need upstanders. You know, I heard this expression, it's not mine, that bystanders, they're bystanders, but upstanders are people who take action. It's upstanders. It's people who take action when someone's being racist and you tell them, cut that out. We need people to be brave. We need them to be courageous.

And we need them to say when something's not right. We need to value what we have and particularly Aboriginal culture and this, you can't go anywhere else in the world and get it. If they destroy all the sites of significance, the cultural sites, that's gone forever. You cannot get it back. So I think you need to think about what is worth saving? What does this country now called Australia, what does it mean to each one of us?

What is worth saving in this country? And I think Aboriginal culture is worth saving.

speaker-1 (41:18.83)

Absolutely, Aunty Esme. And we should be, as a country, so much prouder of who we are and what we have, where we call home, than what we currently are. And it's only going to make us better as a whole nation when we do that too.

speaker-0 (41:36.012)

I think we need to value. We need to value each other, really. We need to value culture. We need to value what makes you different. Instead of wanting you to be the same as me, I need to value what you are. And that means any group in Australia. But when we're talking about Aboriginal culture, we're talking about a country that speaks about it. Uluru speaks volumes about this country.

But who's been there, how many people have been there to, know, people want to climb it, but they don't want to value what it's got, what it sees, what it represents.

speaker-1 (42:12.712)

and respect what it really means and the true stories of its place as well. Aunty Esme, I think that's an incredible spot to leave our conversation today of asking people to step up and do something and to respect and honour the legacy, I think, of the history of the movement that's gotten us to the place where we are today in the fight for Aboriginal rights in this country. And thank you so much for coming in to share.

your reflection and your personal connection as the current CEO of The League with us all today. I really appreciate it, Annie. It's me. It's been so lovely to get to chat to you. If something from today's episode has stayed with you, we hope it starts a conversation where you are, maybe at your kitchen table. Thanks for listening.