Running, Resilience & Reclaiming Space | Sissy Austin on Take Back The Track

Running, Resilience & Reclaiming Space | Sissy Austin on Take Back The Track 

What happens when the place that brings you peace becomes the place that changes your life forever?

In this episode of Community Conversations by Clothing The Gaps, host Sarah Sherry sits down with her dear friend Sissy Austin for a powerful conversation about running, healing, justice, advocacy, and reclaiming public space.

Sissy Austin is a proud Gunditjmara, Keerray Woorroong and Djab Wurrung woman, passionate runner, truth teller, and founder of Take Back The Track.
 

Following a violent assault while running on Country in 2023, Sissy began a deeply personal healing journey that would eventually lead her to complete the New York City Marathon through the Indigenous Marathon Project and launch a national movement advocating for the safety of women and gender diverse runners.

This episode explores:

• Connection to Country through running
• Healing after violence and trauma
• Community care and collective strength
• The Indigenous Marathon Project journey
• Running the New York City Marathon
• Resilience, grief, and recovery
• Women and gender diverse peoples’ safety and public space
• Media narratives and racism
• Why Take Back The Track was created
• The future of safe running for all

This is a conversation about courage.
About refusing to let fear steal joy.
And about what it means to reclaim freedom, one step at a time.

Guest

Sissy Austin, Founder of Take Back The Track

Links

Take Back The Track

ABC Article on Sissy's attack

Chapters

00:00 Running, Healing & Connection to Country
02:45 Why Running Became Sissy’s Anchor
08:12 The Assault That Changed Everything
12:40 Community Care After Trauma
18:10 Returning to Running Again
23:00 Racism, Media Narratives & Public Response
26:05 The Indigenous Marathon Project Journey
33:10 Training Through Injury & Deep Water Running
36:35 Crossing the New York Marathon Finish Line
41:05 The Birth of Take Back The Track
46:05 Why Women Shouldn’t Have To “Run Safe”
49:18 Building a National Movement
51:00 Research, Advocacy & Changing Systems
51:57 The Future Sissy Wants For Runners

Transcript

Speaker-0 - Sissy Austin (Guest) (00:00.302)

I love thinking about the things that not everyone saw. It's the reason why I survived and why I rose. In the back of the ambulance, all of my words were blurred, like I was quite distressed, nothing made sense. But the one thing that I kept on saying was that we were on Wadawurrung country. Those sort of comments from like the racist white people in Ballarat, they absolutely hurt, but it was fully counteracted by...

Speaker-1 - Sarah Sherry (host) (00:31.906)

the resilience is so deep within your soul about how determined you were to get to New York. So what did it feel like when you crossed the line?

speaker-0 (00:40.238)

Sorry, the tennis ball.

speaker-1 (00:41.75)

Yeah, so hello and welcome to Community Conversations. At Clothing the Gaps, we often say that it's more than a tee, it's a conversation starter. And this podcast is where those conversations continue as we sit down with inspiring people from community to talk about justice, advocacy, and the stories of the movements that got us to where we are today and those shaping the future. My name is Sarah Sherry. I'm non-Indigenous and the co-founder of Clothing the Gaps alongside Gunditjmara woman Laura Thompson. We're all about working to each other's strengths in our partnership. 

I love hosting and asking questions and Laura prefers to be interviewed. So here we are. We're recording today on Wurundjeri and Bunurong Country and I honor the traditional owners of these lands. I pay my respects to Elders past and present and acknowledge that sovereignty was never ceded. It always was and always will be Aboriginal land. Today, I am so thrilled to finally get to record a podcast with my dear friend, Sissy Austin. 

Siss, we've talked about doing this forever and I'm so excited that we finally get to do it.

Summing up an intro for Siss was actually really hard as she wears many hats across community, work, and as an individual. But for today's chat, here's where we'll start. Sissy is a proud Gunditjmara, Keerray Woorroong and Djap Wurrung community member  You're a passionate runner, a staunch truth teller, and the founder of the movement Take Back the Track. In 2023, Sissy was selected for the Indigenous Marathon Project - a program supporting First Nations runners to train for and run the New York City Marathon. But earlier that same year in February, Sissy was violently attacked while out running near Ballarat in the Lal Lal State Forest on Wadawurrung Country. In the months that followed the attack, Sissy not only reclaimed her love of running, she went on to complete, and might I say smash, the New York City Marathon and then launched Take Back the Track, a movement centered on the right of women and gender diverse people to run safely and reclaim public space. Sissy, welcome to Community Conversations.

speaker-0 (02:41.806)

Thanks for having me and thanks for that introduction.

speaker-1 (02:45.166)

It is so lovely to get to be sitting here doing this with you, I really mean it. 

Speaker 0 Yeah. 

Speaker-1 Sis, I'd love to start off with a couple of questions about running and why running is so important to you and what has it brought to your life?

speaker-0 (02:57.878)

Yeah, I often reflect on what I love about running. And I think the main things are connection, like connection to ourselves, like with our body, mind and spirit, connection to country, connection to the broader running community. And I also love, I love the discipline that running brings, the structure when you're training for those longer distances, like the structure.

that it kind of gives to your personal life outside of work. And yeah, I just love the challenge of it.

speaker-1 (03:34.658)

Yeah, absolutely. And it really does. The discipline and the structure, I completely agree. I feel like when you, especially if you're training for long distance running, it really does underpin everything that you decide about your whole week. And it really forces you to carve out time for yourself in that.

speaker-0 (03:50.958)

Yeah, yeah, and because there's like, especially training for the longer distances, like there's no cutting corners in, you know, in getting there. So you do really have to follow that structure and discipline. And then it kind of like, once you apply that to your running life, I've noticed that over the years since running for such a long time, like, it does transfer into other elements of your life and

the structure and the resilience in that. So yeah, it's deadly. love running.

speaker-1 (04:26.734)

couldn't agree more, in that when you're going through something hard and you have to just dig that little bit deeper, your training really does pull through in that. It doesn't matter whether it's in a work sense or in another personal essence. You're like, I can get through that 36 to 38 kilometer pain, I reckon I can do this. You spoke a bit there, Sis, about running being a connection piece for you.

We've spoken a lot about how running is a big part of you and connecting to country as well. And what does it feel like to move through country in that way while you're running?

speaker-0 (05:03.38)

Running is like a major form of connection to country for me and it's the freedom of being out on country. It's exploring places that you may not explore otherwise. It's connection to all the elements of country like we're so aware of the ground beneath us, whether it be, you know, hard surfaces.

trails, you know, sand, which makes it like heaps harder if it's like more of a loosely, you know, gravel sand type surface below our feet. And then just like the elements like the smells, we're aware of the health of country runners. And I don't think the entire running community across the country would really appreciate or understand the connection that they actually do have to country.

through their running journey. And I think, you know, you often hear runners reflecting on, especially during summer or like during burn off season when there's more smoke in the air. Or like when us country runners come to the city and we're kind of like, ugh, like it kind of smells here, but not kind of smells. It's not the worst thing in the world, but we are so different. And like even just going from here to running

speaker-1 (06:26.766)

It's really different, hey?

speaker-0 (06:32.32)

in New York, which I know we're yarning about later, but the difference in air quality is really significant. And then just the inspiration from country. think a lot of us, especially First Nations runners, draw a lot of strength from and inspiration from country whilst running. like, I love seeing, yeah, our totems out there on our run.

our run, my run, but we're running together, know, us and me and country.

speaker-1 (07:03.522)

That's really powerful, Sis, and I think you're right. I don't think non-Indigenous runners see and feel that in that same way at all. I think the connection that you feel across country while you're running is really different.

speaker-0 (07:15.48)

But once you talk about it, they're like, yeah, like I am aware of that. Or like I did love seeing that black cockatoo out on my run today. And that's actually connecting with country.

speaker-1 (07:28.014)

Yeah, so true. And it's those little mindfulness, I guess, moments of when you're running, it's really hard to focus on anything else sometimes. Like you really have to just, especially if you're out for sure, not running on a pavement track in the city, you do have to watch where you're going and take notice of all those tree roots. And where is that branch? And can I run in the shade on this side? Like you do have to.

Yeah, really slow down and take it all in a little bit more, which is really different to running in the city. Yes. Very much so. Give me the country run any day. When I think about and when I hear you talk about, you know, the power and the freedom that you feel in running. Yeah. Really, when, you know, we've spoken a lot about the impact that your attack had for you on running. And I just wanted to say in February 2023, I just wanted to touch on that, if you're comfy to do that this morning as you were attacked while you were out running. You know, in your happy place, in your place of calm and connection and power. Can you share a little bit with us about what happened and...

speaker-0 (08:29.454)

in 2023, I did experience an assault whilst running in the Lal Lal State Forest on Wadawurrung country. yeah, that assault in it happening whilst I was doing what I loved, running on country, it came with like layers of grief and trauma. yeah.

speaker-1 (08:57.772)

Yeah, and it's massive, Sis. To have somebody do that to you while you were in your happy place is huge. And that grief that you spoke about there of grieving your happy place and the love that you had for running and just as you were reflecting on that deep connection to and your love of country, that would have been really tough for you.

speaker-0 (09:18.338)

Yeah, it was really tough and I've still, I don't think I would ever go back and run in that place. And I did spend a lot of time, yeah, grieving the love and connection that I did have to that certain place. Like it is really, really beautiful part of what around country. And yeah, I was, it had a massive impact on me, but.

I think what kind of like broke my heart the most was seeing the impact that it had on the community around me. I think what I realised that it was like an attack and assault on one of us. It was actually an attack on all of us. yeah, I think a lot of women and gender diverse runners and especially us as Mob.

they kind of, yeah, saw themselves in me and if it could happen to me, it could happen to anyone. So, yeah, that really hurt at the time too, seeing the impact that it had on community.

speaker-1 (10:25.55)

And I think too, Sis, that speaks to the deep love that people have for you as a person as well of wanting to support you after the horrifically violent attack that really did happen. There was a lot of community support for you after the attack. There really was. Was there anything that surprised you out of that?

speaker-0 (10:49.262)

Yeah, there was so much community support. I love thinking about the things that were kind of, you know, that not everyone saw. And even just getting home from the hospital, someone that we both know, my beautiful friend Dtarneen, there was like a story. I had really, really overly ripe bananas in my kitchen at the time and when I got home from the hospital, like Dtarneen had driven up from Narrm up to Ballarat and gone straight to my house. And I just, I love that Dtarneen saw the bananas and you know, when you see overripe bananas, they're there for a reason. Like they're there for banana bread.

speaker-1 (11:35.214)

It's the only thing they could ever possibly be used for. And blessed timing, best cook ever.

speaker-0 (11:41.71)

And I loved like just like there was the really hard things after the attack like there was some pretty bad experiences, but it's those experience like getting home to the smell of tarnine Having baked banana bread and now we just have this ongoing thing where I'm like when I see overripe bananas I think of tarnine and like the warmth that that that tarnine coming up from Narrm to my house, but also like yeah that

kind of, yeah, smell of baked banana bread. And there was, it was like, just like so many people contributed in their way to my healing journey. And yeah, it's the reason why I survived and why I rose, like because of, yeah, everyone collectively, I guess, yeah, contributing to my healing journey and believing in my recovery.

speaker-1 (12:39.512)

Community care is so powerful in that, like it looks like lots of different things in lots of different moments.

speaker-0 (12:43.946)

Yeah, it is. it's just like it's even Uncle Andy, you know, who was at VAHS at the time. And Uncle Andy drove up as well to like just hang out with me. Yeah, just like so many things, even like, you know, the power of Blak music at that time. Like there was only certain artists that I could that my brain could actually cope with listening to. Like I had a pretty significant concussion and then

post-concussion syndrome, like there was certain artists that I could listen to and feel at peace with. like Emily Wurramarra and Alice Skye were two of the key. Like I just had them on repeat after the attack. I also had just the first Harry Potter on repeat, which with Tani, it was like, just put it back on. Like not watching it, but just listening to it in the background.

But yeah, even I recently like last year, mid last year, reconnected with the paramedic that attended on the day and even like connecting, like I guess reuniting with Jack the paramedic from yeah, Ambulance Victoria. That was like a really powerful moment in my healing journey as well and like going back to connection to country for our people. Something that I

that I learned about myself that I guess like I always talk about how we're so connected and at one with country, but Jack shared with me something that I obviously hadn't remembered probably because I was concussed and stuff. But yeah, he shared with me that in the back of the ambulance, like all of my words were blurred, like I was quite distressed, nothing made sense. But the one thing that I kept on

saying was that we were on Wadawurrung country. And he even he said like as a white man, like he just couldn't believe it like that. Nothing else made sense in what I was saying in the trip from out in the bush into town. But I constantly I knew which country and whose country I was on. And I think like, yeah, it was Jack sharing that that I've I've learned that.

speaker-0 (15:09.086)

our connection to country isn't something that's in our brain. Like I was concussed, I had a head injury. Our connection to country is in our spirit and even, you know, a violent assault, a head injury, a concussion, it doesn't take away the knowing of who we are and our connection to country. And yeah, I just feel so grateful that I had the opportunity to connect with Jack and that he could share that with me because

Yeah, I understood and understand our connection to country more than ever.

speaker-1 (15:44.91)

And as you said, Sis, even in all of that, that fuzz and that haze of everything else that was going on, the one thing that you had absolute clarity about from deep within you is you knew exactly where you are. One of the things that I love from that story and that moment is that not only did you know exactly where you were, you wanted to make sure that everybody else did too, which does not shock me one bit in the slightest. You were, before you were telling Jack where you were, you made sure that

He knew and you quizzed him and you asked him, said, well, do you know where we are, whose country on and what did he say and how did that make you?

speaker-0 (16:21.678)

do it like that and that was how like it started me just saying do you know whose country you're on and when he said Wadawurrung, I immediately felt relieved and like I was safe in the back of the ambulance and Jack yeah Jack did share with me like how obviously scared and quite distressed I was but like once we had that small and it didn't go on forever I think it was just this

really quick short moment where he knew and he once he said Wadawurrung country, he said that I was yeah, right for the rest of the trip. And yeah, it was it was a really profound moment and it had ongoing. Yeah, positive impact. was something to draw strength from in my healing journey that there was still good people.

speaker-1 (17:18.67)

out there in world.

moment where you would have, would imagine, Sis felt so incredibly vulnerable and terrified to have that sense of a little bit of safety, and that the people who you hoped were looking after you had a bit of understanding and respect for something that was really important to you too. And I think perhaps sometimes for non-Indigenous people, they can think that, you know, it's not really that important to know, you know, who the traditional owners are or what that looks like, but.

to understand and know that is so important.

speaker-0 (17:53.24)

Yeah, and it was literally all I needed in the moment. I didn't need anything more from Jack or like from the paramedics. In that moment, all I needed to know was that he knew whose country he was on. And that was that was enough in that moment. Yeah, it didn't need to be anything more.

speaker-1 (18:12.11)

I just have this like image of you being like, but do you know who's catching you? And I'm sure it's probably went exactly like that. It probably did. Sis, when you were ready to start running again, when you'd physically healed enough to be able to lace your runners back on, how long after your attack was that? And what did that first run actually really feel like?

speaker-0 (18:20.984)

Yeah.

speaker-0 (18:37.802)

Yeah, I think it was around, I think it was around three months after the assault that I did, I put the runners back on and I think it was like putting the runners back on that was the first step. I'd just spent like three months in slides and socks and they were, that was my comfort. And just like, yeah, going back into the runners was a big deal.

And then, yeah, the first run, think, you know, I kind of just realised that I'm human. It was hard. Like, it was always going to be hard. And I think like, so was like the 10th and the 15th run after that. But that first run, I can remember, I just did a little jog around the soccer oval near my house. And yeah, I realised I was human, that it was going to be a long journey. But

but that I was willing to go on it. And yeah, I knew that I had my community supporting me so I didn't feel alone.

speaker-1 (19:45.802)

Yeah. And I'm so glad that you didn't feel alone in that, Sis. You really did have a, you know, not everybody may have been running, you know, directly with you in that moment, but yeah, I know we were all thinking of you as you laced back up those shoes. And I guess it's like you spoke about your first couple of runs being at the soccer over, which is just such a contrast to, guess, like your happy place of running, which is out Bush as well. It took a while for you to go from running through the streets, I guess, to being out Bush,

speaker-0 (20:13.174)

Yeah. Yeah. And where I was living at the time, there was a beautiful trail just across the road. Like I could see it from the soccer oval, but yeah, I wasn't willing to run on it. I can't remember how many runs it took, but I just ran laps. It just, yeah, it just had to be the soccer oval for a little bit there, which was so boring, but it was necessary.

and I acknowledge. I respect the soccer oval.

speaker-1 (20:48.758)

No shade to the soccer oval.

speaker-0 (20:50.158)

No shade towards the soccer oval. It provided me with that chapter in my journey back to running that I needed. And yeah, just there was no timing on my healing and what I was going to do next. was all about being in tune with what I was ready for and not pushing any further. yeah, I'm glad that I didn't push too early.

did eventually go across the road onto the trail, which is a beautiful trail in Ballarat, the Yarrawe Trail. And that's eventually where I did most of my, all of my running. Actually, I never ventured out into the bush, but yeah, I did it all on that up and down that trail.

speaker-1 (21:38.222)

Tell me about that moment when you cross the road there and you went from the soccer oval into the trail.

speaker-0 (21:45.1)

I can, like I did, didn't plan it. I just crossed the road and did like a little section up and then back again. It was like, yeah, it wasn't like this, my God, like this is incredible. It was kind of like, those thoughts come back in your head, like, am I asking to be attacked? Like, what am I doing? People are gonna judge me. They're gonna think like,

you know, yeah, there is kind of like thoughts were in my head, like, people watching me. She should be on the soccer oval. She yeah, there is kind of like thoughts were probably in my head a lot of the time, like thinking that I was doing something wrong by going back on the trails. But I'm

speaker-1 (22:27.758)

Hmm.

speaker-1 (22:39.374)

Yeah, which is such an unfair expectation. was a journey. Absolutely, and it's such an unfair expectation. I think that especially as women that we put on ourselves of, it's that narrative of this was our fault. I shouldn't have been out running on the trails. And I think it's probably worth mentioning too, Sis, that post your attack, there was actually an enormous amount of media attention as well, like that you were on most of the mainstream, Channel 7 News, all of those.

speaker-0 (23:08.098)

And the community, like the Blak community response was what carried me through that time. But like it's it would be, yeah, kind of presenting a false narrative if I didn't mention that there were people in Ballarat that were absolutely brutal after the attack. Yeah, I don't want to be like cry, but they were like the comments on.

speaker-1 (23:29.581)

Yeah.

speaker-0 (23:36.92)

community forums because it was the year of the referendum. Yeah, and I just remember reading like some of the comments that were like, like, she's an activist, she's doing it because of the referendums coming up. She set it up, like those sort of comments from like the racist white people in Ballarat. They absolutely hurt. But yeah, so grateful that.

it was fully counteracted by the power and love of the black community. I didn't realize I would go. But it's important to acknowledge like not everything's perfect in a healing journey and um.

speaker-1 (24:10.318)

Absolutely. 

Speaker-0: Sorry. 

speaker-1 (24:22.002)

No, it's okay.

I was reflecting on the bit where people were incredibly racist after your attack, you were horrifically attacked to have people question.

speaker-0 (24:33.728)

And the headlines weren't like, as you say, with non-Indigenous runners that have experienced assault or violence or harassment, the headlines normally, you know, like, female runner attacked. But like the headlines for me was like, Aboriginal activist attack. That's what the headlines were. Like it was always...

speaker-1 (24:58.894)

Aboriginal activist incident.

speaker-0 (25:02.488)

Yeah, was never, yeah, it always had to have that I was like an activist at the beginning.

speaker-1 (25:11.805)

Yeah, absolutely. So we're at about April, 2023 at this point, back in time. At what point did you try out for the New York Marathon? In 2023, you were selected for the Indigenous Marathon project. You went on to run the New York City Marathon, spoiler alert. You'd only run 21 Ks before you decided after being horrifically attacked in the bush that you were still going to go through with your application, which I think.

We'll talk about that in a minute, but you had only run 21 Ks before, which is actually where we met. 

Speaker 0: Yes, it is where we met. 

Speaker 1: Can you talk me through how you felt when you were, you were still really suffering from post-concussion. wasn't an easy journey at all for you when you did your interview with Indigenous Marathon Project. Can you talk us through all of that and that whole journey?

speaker-0 (26:05.762)

Yeah, so as part of the Indigenous Marathon Project application, you do the written application at the beginning and then you attend tryouts and then you have an interview with the coaching staff. And so prior to the attack, had put in the, I'd done the written application and then the attack happened. I had a really bad concussion, as I've mentioned, and I missed the tryouts.

But at the time Rob de Castello, who's the founder and CEO of the Indigenous Marathon Project, he had called me and said that I could still be considered, even though couldn't make the tryouts, that there's time for me to recover and that he'll get back to me or whatever. And then a few weeks later he did get back to me, but I didn't believe him. I continued being sad actually, because I was like...

you know, it was I've always followed the Indigenous Marathon project and never applied and I felt like the timing was really right in my journey to apply for it. But yeah, continued being sad because of the concussion. I forgot that Robert called me and then he called me back and asked if I still wanted to like a few weeks later and I was like, no, I missed the tryouts. And he was like, no, I called you like a few weeks ago and said you could still be considered. And I remember like

going through my call log being like, no he didn't.

speaker-1 (27:35.618)

He's lying. Rob's lying.

speaker-0 (27:40.238)

But he wasn't lying and I did my tryout. In another way, like that first run was actually with a running app where I had to do a run and then screenshot the run and send it in to the coaching staff. And then I had the interview. I lost, like I really struggled to talk after the attack. Like I lost a lot of my speech and I was

talking really, really slowly, but I was still determined to do this interview with the coach, Damian. And I really, like I just said to him, I'm struggling to find my words, but you've just got to like give me time and I'll get through answering the questions. And it was the first time I'd looked at a computer screen, like to do the Zoom meeting. Like there was a lot of firsts in that, like, and yeah, did the interview.

But then part of it also required, which I know we've probably talked about before, part of it was that I needed to get a doctor's clearance given that I was, you know, concussed a little bit. Just a little bit. And so, yeah, the coach Damien asked me to contact my doctor to see if I'd get the approval to.

speaker-1 (28:52.109)

Yeah.

speaker-0 (29:04.13)

sick to run like health wise and yeah that day I'd called Dr. Greta we all love Dr. Greta and she hadn't answered and I remember like I called her I probably called her like three times that day and then she called me when she called me back she thought something like had happened she's like you okay like what's happened and I was like Greta I've applied to run this train to run a marathon and I need you to write a letter

speaker-1 (29:10.126)

Dr. Greta.

speaker-0 (29:33.902)

to say that I can start training for the New York Marathon. And I just like remember her pause being like, okay, I know you well, Sissy. Like I'm actually not surprised to hear this, but I'm also conscious that you've got post-concussion syndrome. So she was trying to find a balance in that, like in that, like can be pretty crazy sometimes.

speaker-1 (29:58.766)

You're a little bit stubborn. Slightly. Just a tiny bit.

speaker-0 (30:03.88)

and yeah, I was like, kept butting in being like with all these ideas and how I could make it happen. She was like, like, I was like, Greta, I'll do the training with a helmet on. If I have to run with a helmet on, I will do that. And I like, I remember like being like, Sissy, just like, give me a moment to think it like, and then she was like, okay, it's not a contact sport. blah, blah. She wrote the letter.

speaker-1 (30:11.16)

Problem solvers.

speaker-0 (30:30.03)

But I remember she wrote like this one line at the bottom of the letter that was like, unsure how Sissy will go, but like willing to, I guess, support it in a way. I remember thinking like, why would you say... I was thinking, Gretta has ruined it.

speaker-1 (30:43.928)

Red rag to a bull.

speaker-0 (30:51.662)

Even though the rest of the letter was great, Greta also did say like, this would be, this is like something interesting for her too, to see like how active recovery goes with recovering from a concussion. I've since done like reading on it and it is a thing like that they're doing more research into in like active recovery with a concussion rather than staying in bed. And yeah.

speaker-1 (31:18.302)

Especially when you're so determined to do the thing. It's not like you've popped out of the hospital with post-concussions in German. The GP's been like, you're now going to run a marathon. It's a little bit different. You genuinely are the most stubborn person I know, serious. To your credit, when you have a fire in your belly about something, just get out of the way. You may as well just move because it's happening.

speaker-0 (31:45.378)

going to find a way.

speaker-1 (31:46.176)

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Helmet or no helmet. CCU is running. You did get selected. Yeah. Into the Indigenous Marathon Project, which was so exciting. The other thing about that, I guess, is that IMP has an age cut off as well. So you were turning 30 that year. So this was kind of like you were like, it's now literally or never.

speaker-0 (32:07.274)

Yeah, and I just spent like I was 29. I'd been a kinship carer for almost 10 years, like my entire 20s were raising and caring for kids. And it was the first time in my life where I actually didn't have any kids in my care. Like my cousin did eventually come back into my care a few months later, but it just felt like the right time. And yeah, and also the age.

speaker-1 (32:34.862)

cut off the dirty thing. Which I think, you know, probably helps just explain to some of our listeners why you were so, so adamant. They're like, you know, like you're like, you don't understand. I have to do it.

speaker-0 (32:46.252)

Yeah, but like being selected, just felt like it was just the biggest blessing from the ancestors. Like, I don't know where I would be if I didn't have had that journey to then focus on after the attack. it was, yeah, the ancestors like really lined it up deadly in that moment.

speaker-1 (33:06.437)

They really did and then they wanted you to go swimming a lot. Ah yeah. Because then you got a stress fracture in your foot. Yeah my leg. Yeah your leg that's right. And so you were were part way through your training and then you had to essentially like stop physically like on the ground running. Yes. And you got given a water, deep water running plan.

And I have never seen anybody stick to a plan so meticulously. Because again, you were like, I am going to prove that, you know, Dr. Greta, I'm sure how this is going to go. You're like, I will run in the water or on the ground if it's happening. Can you talk us through what that felt like, as if there wasn't enough to compete with?

speaker-0 (33:47.746)

Yeah, was I am. Yeah, the stress fracture kind of early on in my leg was like, yeah, it was pretty. But our physio sheen, our coach Damian, they still believed in me. But yeah, I had to run in the water and I'd never done deep water running before. Didn't know what it was. And yeah, it required.

hours in the pool and like if you've not done deep water running before just like imagine this flotation belt strapped around your waist and then you get in the water deep enough so your feet can't touch the ground. Some people think like you're actually just running on the surface of the pool and then yeah you're kind of just running with the resistance of the water and it is so hard and so my plan my training plan was in the water

every day of the week, some days it was water plus gym, like it was double sessions. And you're running, you're doing it to like a program. Mine was called like it was the triangle. So it was like, I had my garment on, it was like 15 seconds sprinting, 10 seconds rest. I'm getting these timings wrong because it was like three years ago, but

then like a minute sprinting really fast in the water with like another 30 seconds rest and then going all the way up to two minutes sprinting and then back down again. It's really hard. I can't emphasize how hard it is. It's like very hard.

speaker-1 (35:20.162)

That sounds hard.

speaker-1 (35:26.934)

Which just really speaks to the resilience is so deep within your soul about how determined you were to get to New York. So what did it feel like when you crossed the line?

speaker-0 (35:36.238)

I'm sorry the tennis ball thing.

speaker-0 (35:41.486)

That was because like I could see the proper swimmers in the lanes across me using like tennis balls as part of their swimming training. And I was like, yeah, like I've got to like make the most out of this time in the pool. And because you're not meant to like use your hands as fins. So then I was like, I might bring tennis balls myself. And so I was like running up and down this pool every single day with tennis balls in my hands. But then what was funny was that when I

eventually got the all clear to go out onto the track was that I felt like I couldn't run without the balls in my hands. Do you remember that? absolutely. So I did like my entire rest of my training. And I remember people being like, there is no way you'll run that marathon with the balls in your hands. And you did. And I didn't miss a run without the balls because I couldn't not run without the balls in my hands. It's crazy,

speaker-1 (36:35.368)

So when you were carrying your tennis balls across the New York City Marathon finish line, what was that moment like?

speaker-0 (36:42.966)

Yeah, it's, I think everyone that's ran a marathon knows that that finish line is a really emotional moment. And you've just kind of like gone through a lifetime of emotions and drawing on strength, resilience, reflecting on the journey that you've gone on to get here. And then crossing the finish line is just like, yeah, it's, it's hard to even actually.

really fine words for that feeling of, yeah, like just pure pride in yourself, acknowledging the strength and the resilience that we carry as Blackfellas in this country. Like I've talked a lot about how I was in search for a new heart on the marathon and whilst it was incredibly hard.

in terms of like, heart hard, it didn't feel like the hardest hard that I have ever experienced. And it actually made me really sad in a moment while I was running the marathon. I feel like it was around the 30 to 35 K mark where I was like getting really emotional because I was like, when is this thing going to get hard? And yeah, we'd heard from a lot of mostly

white men about the hardness of the marathon and yet still acknowledging that it's hard, but it's nothing compared to what our people face daily. And yeah, I just had this moment on the marathon where I was like reflecting in the streets of New York, reflecting on like Gunditjmara people, like particularly Gunditjmara women and all that our people have.

endured and that we carry as well, like as the younger, youngish generation. And yeah, I just started imagining all my people with the marathon medal around their neck. So when I did cross the finish line, it didn't feel like a marathon just around my neck. It felt like it was around everyone who had gotten me to where I was. But also

speaker-0 (39:06.734)

a realization and kind of a slight sadness of that it didn't feel like I met a new heart because of what we face in this country.

speaker-1 (39:16.576)

Yeah, and that's such a powerful reflection. So, what a privilege it is to have running a marathon be the hardest thing that you've ever done.

speaker-0 (39:25.332)

Exactly. That was the realisation that I had.

speaker-1 (39:28.312)

I remember sitting, I was watching you on the little screen on my phone, watching you cross that finish line. was sitting at the gym and my gym class was starting and Megsy was like, you coming? I'm like, I can't Sissy's running. I'm sitting there bawling. She's like, you okay? I'm like, Sissy's running. We were all so excited for you.

speaker-0 (39:45.07)

You had played a key role in my journey, Do you remember the run that we did? I think it was the longest run that Jack and I, or the last longest run that Jack and I, Jack was part of my squad and Jack and I had done a lot of our training together, but we had that run the morning after the referendum. the tracks were empty. I'd come down to Narm to run. It was just us, but like...

I think because there was a running event on in Melbourne Marathon. But getting up that morning after, not like with the whole country had just voted no, but Jack and I had on our training plan that we had like, was it a 30 something K run that morning? And yeah, you came in and jumped in on the course. And I remember you were wearing like an Aboriginal shirt, like a Clothing the Gaps shirt. And I think I said to you like,

speaker-1 (40:15.752)

There was, was no

speaker-0 (40:42.242)

You're wearing a shirt.

speaker-1 (40:43.707)

my get up, stand up, show up shirt because that's what I felt like we needed.

speaker-0 (40:46.764)

I remember saying to you, you're wearing that shirt and you were like, yeah, I am. it just, yeah, it felt kind of scary to get out and run, but we did it and we did it together. And those were also the moments that, yeah.

speaker-1 (41:04.11)

and it's been a pleasure to support you, Sis, and to play a tiny little part in your journey. Speaking of your journey, after New York, you came home, and in true Sis fashion, you did something else, which was Take Back the Track. Tell us about how Take Back the Track started. When did it go from being like a lingering idea that you were like, I think maybe there's a thing that I could do here to actually like pulling the pin and putting it into action?

speaker-0 (41:30.294)

Yeah, I think so the whole journey of like New York returning to running that was that felt like my own kind of personal healing journey. And I was sharing bits and pieces of that on my social media. And through that, I was having so many people messaging me sharing with me their experiences, their negative experiences of running like women and gender diverse runners sharing with me some really

personal things and I think first I needed to go on my kind of own personal healing journey but once I'd gotten to the next chapter I felt like I knew that what happened to me was bigger than me and I wasn't the only person in the country that had experienced violence or harassment whilst running and so yeah it was through running that I then you know found a place of

reflection and that's where really where Take Back the Track was born and yeah I found myself in a time where I felt ready to I guess bring the country along with me in that healing journey and in with that really kind of strong stance that I had throughout my training journey was that I never wanted anyone to steal from me.

my love for running and it was that that kind of drove me into take back the track and it became broader I guess. Like I refused to allow men's violence to steal from us our love and connection to running. So that's kind of where I guess the thought of the movement was.

speaker-1 (43:23.904)

Yeah, and since you really have created a movement, like I think a lot of people be like, we're creating a movement. But you actually really have, like on Take Back the Track Day this year, so February 15, this year, there were dozens of events right across the country that you weren't at that were led by community leaders in their own spaces that looked and felt like you may as well have been there. Like you really have propelled something incredibly special forward. What does this...

speaker-0 (43:46.797)

Yeah.

speaker-1 (43:51.306)

what does this feel like for you to see the response from people to really take up the call to take back the track?

speaker-0 (43:58.05)

You know, I remember when I first created a logo and like, I don't know if you remember, and then I posted it, created a Take Back The Track Instagram. I posted it. I didn't really know, like I didn't have this full plan of like, this is what the movement's going to look like. I just knew that there needed to be something and was at peace that it was going to be kind of an unknown journey, you know? But I remember when I first put it out to the world,

to the world, to social media. This nurse from a hospital in Melbourne messaged me and was like, my god, this is exactly what we need. And she told me how when she loved running, but since starting nursing, her shifts don't align with the sun being up, so she's had to give up running. And she was like,

felt this determination. She was like, actually, I should be able to run, you know, before sunrise and at sunset before this after sunset. And yeah, it was kind of her message. I was like, okay, this is okay. we're like, this is needed. But it was, yeah, it was, it's been this beautiful journey, but also one where I'm like, I wish a movement such as take back the track.

didn't have to exist. But as I've said, like throughout the last National Take Back the Track Day, is that it does exist and it will continue to exist. I love how we've found a balance where we're talking about the violence and harassment or the fear of that women and gender diverse runners experience across the country. But we're also, the movement is also this permission.

and this space to talk about what we love about running and why it's so worthy of being protected from men's violence. And I love that we've kind of along the journey managed to find that.

speaker-1 (46:05.358)

Yeah and that's incredible Cis, like it really is your love of running and connection to people and wanting to see more people love what you love about running and be able to do that more. Yeah. And then the barrier that's in the way of that is men's violence against women and gender diverse people in those spaces. So what what do you say when

Well, you people often say like, you you shouldn't run at night and, you know, running pairs and all of those sorts of things. I carry an alarm. Like, what's your response to that?

speaker-0 (46:35.98)

So like, I get asked this a lot and I, there are a lot of movements that focus specifically on runners safety and I fully acknowledge the work and then the need for that in the space. But take back the track is a movement that's demanding that that actually shouldn't exist. And so,

Yeah, then there needs to be the two coexisting like where our safety is considered that we are, you know, enacting safety measures that feel comfortable to us as individuals, but take back the track is demanding that actually that shouldn't be our reality. And yeah, I refuse and our movement refuses for that to be the continued reality for women and

gender diverse runners, think that the focus actually needs to shift on, well, men actually just shouldn't be violent. that, as soon as you, like, whenever there's an attack on women and gender diverse runners, the police will come out straight away and say, run in pairs. You're like, and I remember they said that after my attack. Like, I remember seeing the police media conference where the

police officer was like, you know, I advise you to run in pairs. And it immediately shifts the blame on to us as runners. And I remember thinking and it's no wonder I thought I was doing something wrong by going onto the Yarrawe trail and moving away from the soccer oval because the messaging is always that we're doing something wrong. Like I think in those moments, the police in particular, their messaging is so harmful to

well, the vision of take back the track, but harmful to ending violence and harassment towards women in general, whether you're a runner or not a runner, they need to use that moment to actually be cool out men for their violence and that, yeah, that it's unacceptable, et cetera. So, yeah.

speaker-1 (48:51.982)

Absolutely, because the attention of everybody goes and ourselves as well goes where the focus gets put straight after an incident or an attack or an assault on a running trail or a track and that shouldn't be on our behaviour. Not in the slightest. You've done nothing wrong. You did nothing wrong. Cis, when you think about Take Back the Track and what you're working towards now, do want to tell us a little bit about the research project that's a part of the movement now?

speaker-0 (49:18.542)

So there's like, we've got the movement, we have national take back the track day, the national day that acclaimed. Do you think there's actually a process to claim your national day? Already done it.

speaker-1 (49:29.23)

think we just it right now. I think you did that ago. then. Tick. Move on.

speaker-0 (49:37.614)

And yeah, so a really exciting element that I'm super excited about to the movement now is our research project and it's on our website, takebackthetrack.com. I guess the vision of the research project is over the last two years, I've anecdotally had so many stories shared with me, which like I absolutely carry in my heart.

and in everything that I do, but the research project, I guess, is formalizing that. It's a gathering of stories and understanding more deeper the experiences of women and gender diverse runners. And yeah, the vision is for then that project to determine what we are going to do next as the movement. yeah, takebacktrack.com.

five minute survey. Yeah, and by doing the survey, I guess, yeah, you're not I guess, just by doing the survey, you're, yeah, driving the movement forward. So yeah, it's, it's a really important element of the project and of the movement.

speaker-1 (51:00.494)

Absolutely, because I don't think necessarily there's a whole lot of data always around how we, and it's hard sometimes to put words to how you feel. You know when you're running and you just, you feel like you might want to change where you are or even, like even yesterday I was walking from my hotel into Parliament House and I had to walk through, my maps took me like through this bit of like scrubby bush land around the back of some park and my immediate thought was, ooh.

I wouldn't run here in the dark. And we shouldn't have to feel like that. And those, I guess those icks that you get in your gut because of men's violence against women and gender diverse people while they're running and moving and walking and whatever that feels like, whatever that movement is, shouldn't have to happen at all. Sis, what's your dream for a future where Take Back the Track has done its job? What does running feel like for women and gender diverse people in that future?

speaker-0 (51:57.262)

Yeah, the future is, you know, it starts with tying, putting the runners on tying the laces up. It's, it's literally just focusing on that, not as you're tying them up thinking, okay, am I safe? Is the sun up? It's, it's, you know, running with the sunrise with a smile on our face. And then it's, you know,

running with the sunset and feeling at peace with the day and not feeling like we're chasing the sun. Cause I think all runners, women and gender diverse runners know that as the sun setting, we either cut the run short because we've, you know, timed it wrong. But yeah, I take, yeah, the future to me and the deadly future is yeah, a running experience where,

feeling that unlimited freedom and happiness, connection, joy, and that it doesn't coincide with fear, violence, harassment.

speaker-1 (53:07.374)

Yeah, I love this future, sis. And I think the work that you're doing with Take Back the Track puts us one step closer, you know, one lace up of the runners further along that journey than certainly where we are today and where we were yesterday. So thank you so much. Oh, no, thank you so much for all of the work that you're doing. Now, people, you've mentioned the website a couple of times, so it's takebackthetrack.com. Also there, people can jump on and buy a t-shirt. Yeah, they can buy a tee. They can fill out your research project survey.

speaker-0 (53:34.488)

Yeah, follow us on social.

speaker-1 (53:37.394)

and get ready for take back, national take back, the track day next year in February.

speaker-0 (53:42.538)

Next year in February and yeah, obviously it's men's responsibility as well, like men joining the movement is a huge part of it.

speaker-1 (53:52.874)

Yeah, and there has been an incredible amount of safe men that have

speaker-0 (53:55.758)

They're really high-spirited.

speaker-1 (53:58.126)

Absolutely. Yeah. Thanks, sis. No, Sissy, thank you. And thank you so much for getting up really early to drive down and come and join us on Community Conversations here today. I really appreciate you. I'm so proud of you. But most importantly, you should be so proud of yourself. So thank you for listening. Thanks for joining us on Community Conversations again. If something from today's episode stayed with you, we hope it starts a conversation where you are. Thanks for listening. Thank you. Don't say bye. Bye.

speaker-1 (54:31.138)

you