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The Unstoppable Marketer®
Trevor Crump and Mark Goldhardt bring you quick marketing and entrepreneurial tips, tricks, and trends for DTC business owners, entrepreneurs, and marketers. These are lessons they've learned through the years of being right in the thick of scaling dozens of businesses. Whether you have an established business looking to grow, just starting your business journey, or trying to become a digital marketer, this marketing podcast will not let you down.
The Unstoppable Marketer®
EP. 124 Disrupting an Outdated & Saturated Market Using Social Media w/ Dr. Tyler Hanks Founder @ Happy Tooth
In this episode of the Unstoppable Marketer podcast, host Trevor Crump interviews Tyler Hanks, founder of Happy Tooth Pediatric Dentistry and Happy Tooth Products, about his unique approach to pediatric dentistry and content creation. Tyler shares insights on building a brand, marketing to parents, and the challenges of entrepreneurship in the healthcare space. The conversation covers topics like company culture, going viral, and the importance of routine for entrepreneurs.
Please connect with Trevor on social media. You can find him anywhere @thetrevorcrump
Everyone's brother-in-law is a dentist in Utah. Everyone in their neighborhood knows a few dentists, so I really spent some time trying to figure out, like what does everyone else do and how do I not do that, but still stay true to myself.
Speaker 2:Yo, what's going on everybody? Welcome to the Unstoppable Marketer podcast. With me, as always, is Mark Goldhart, my wonderful co-host. Mark, how are you doing this morning? Doing great.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, all is well, all is well, excited to be here. This is two in a week, so yeah, we have recorded.
Speaker 2:We're getting like uh yeah, we used to have like four in the queue at all times. Things have gotten busy. And then we got busy, well, and it was hard, because you'd want to talk about something trending. And if you talked about something trending now and it went, came out four to six weeks later, later, it wasn't like you know, yeah, and so it made it hard, and so now we make things hard for our producers at film lab to like we record, they edit and they publish and they probably hate us they probably hate us for it.
Speaker 2:So he, gray grace, who's behind the camera? Yeah, you can't see him. He's like super excited that we have like we'll have one in the queue. So now he can you know. And a guest. Yeah, now we have a guest.
Speaker 3:Awesome guest.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is a guest. We've been chatting for a while, so if you're listening, if you see, if you're watching the YouTube, you see him, but if you're listening, you don't see him. But I want to introduce, uh, tyler hanks, who is the? Uh founder of happy tooth pediatrics, which is a pediatric dentistry, uh, up in salt lake. Yep, as well as the founder or co-founder of happy tooth products, yep, yeah, which is like a direct-to-consumer business that's selling toothpaste, toothbrushes and products care yep, yes, for kids well, and adults, and adults.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, whole fam. Yeah, welcome, dude. Thanks I. Uh, I need to apologize. I was looking back at our, our, uh, dms, I think you reached out a year ago and, uh, it's been a minute I had just been busy you're busy, something what dude listen. I'm a dentist. We don't work Fridays, well we know well, we have like.
Speaker 2:I didn't know that you didn't work Friday, is that like? Is that how all dentists are?
Speaker 1:seems like it you know, it's kind of why I got into it. Yeah, I'm just kidding. One day off a week, yeah but look at a dentist man.
Speaker 3:Try to get a Friday appointment. Friday appointment like emergencies only Interesting.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, yeah, I, I reached out, but I realized like it was funny when, when I was trying for maybe like a month or so, and I was like seeing that this was hard, that's what hit me, I was like, oh, like you're kind of not our, you're not our stereotypical guests, like we haven't had a dentist, we haven't had a doctor, we haven't like most of the time it is strictly like a CMO or a like e-commerce founder, which you are. But yeah, but I'm guessing the majority of your time falls much more on the dentistry side of things. You know, definitely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and as I look at my kids dentists and my kids orthodontists. I'm like, how is this? How are these dentists like doing this? Like what would happen if like I asked my wife a question the other day. I'm like what would happen if this guy got like the stomach flu for four days?
Speaker 1:Like great question what happens? You power through, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean just like working on teeth and I see, I see 70 kids a day.
Speaker 1:Uh which is which is back down from where I was. Um was a few years ago and there is no, and they're planned out six months in ahead. You know you go to the dentist and they want you to know your own schedule six months out, but I'm booked out six months ahead. I got to know my schedule, my time, and so I feel really, really bad if someone's been waiting, you know, six months to see me or whatever it is, and and I'm sick.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah we take all the meds and double mask and wash your hands and go to work dizzy sometimes.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it's great so, yeah, I actually feel good about this. Like a year is. I appreciate that, because booking six months in advance is like lunacy, I think whenever I'm at the dentist.
Speaker 3:I'm like, okay, are you good in december?
Speaker 1:it's like I have no idea like a tuesday in december at 11 am. Don't you know your schedule?
Speaker 2:I hope so, yeah but so I guess we're like on your timeline if we were just out a year ago, you know you're getting people six months exactly, so it's not actually that bad if you really think about it. In fact, it's better because, like, we actually connected and you gave me a date, maybe like two months ago, yeah, so I'm like I think we're ahead of schedule. Actually it's good. Your patients who listen to this might actually be ticked.
Speaker 1:It might be yeah, but it's friday, it's friday well, my kids are patients at his place yeah, that is true. Great yeah, which is that's?
Speaker 3:that's an honor it really is like great well, let's get in the breathway.
Speaker 2:Work done, that's right speaking, speaking so like what's way cool is the biggest reason we reached out to you which, like I said, you are not our typical guest, right as a dentist, um, but what you don't know about Tyler and what he's done, um, and we'll get a little background on him and all that. But, like he, I like I know you're a dentist, but I look at you as like you're probably 50, 50, a dentist and 50, 50, a content creator. Like you have done something so wildly different from anybody in this. Uh, like the, is it okay if I just say medical space?
Speaker 1:Yeah, healthcare, that's probably better.
Speaker 2:Healthcare spaces. You just don't see that. You know, and and I don't know if that's because there's a lot of red tape and regulations on things you can and can't say.
Speaker 3:Maybe Well, there's HIPAA.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but like you're not.
Speaker 3:You know. You don't have to talk about anybody's identifiable information.
Speaker 2:Sure, yeah, you're not talking about Julie down the street whose kid is yeah, I live in minute drive for me probably right. Well, for from where you are, it'd be closer to like an hour, so like unless I don't know, i-215 might be a little quick, but I was like I would like my kids to come to your place because of your content and and like I think I showed, you that and you're like oh yeah, I'm gonna have my kids go there for this myo therapy.
Speaker 3:Yeah yeah, yeah, because we're already looking at it at that point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah that's awesome, that's so cool man yeah, I, I'm humbled by that and, honestly, when, when I decided to open a spot from scratch in utah um, like that that's I never thought it would become what it has over the last five years but uh, that was a decision I made really early.
Speaker 1:I don't want to spend money on billboards, or like, I don't look at billboards, I don't, I'm not on radio, you know, I'm not. Everything I get from my mailbox I literally write in the trash. So, um, everyone's on social media. I think a lot of dentists and medical professionals don't have that. They don't. I guess at my core I'm trying to say is I'm an entrepreneur, sure, and you got to go where the people are.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so, yeah, I never thought it would become something that I mean, we have people literally we had a patient from London like come see Dr Kara. We have patients flying from like all over the country to come see us just from social media and just for dentistry it's wild.
Speaker 2:It's incredible, okay. So what inspired you? Yeah, you say you say like, okay, cool, I'm an entrepreneur at heart.
Speaker 3:Well, I think, just just to iterate really quick, in the healthcare space, I mean, almost every dentist is a private practice, right? It's like every dentist is a little bit more on the entrepreneurial side. Definitely, yeah, definitely right instead of, like you know, like an anesthesiologist is not going to be yeah, they're tied, for example so yep, but I think what's interesting about your practice is most, like, here's the trouble with dentistry.
Speaker 3:Is that right? Like it's kind of like insurance books, like if you own like an insurance brokerage, like you kind of have a book of business that you've built over time, it's really sticky, yep. Like once you get people, they're just kind of like I'm just going back to the same old, same old yeah, as long as my rates and you know the products like I've been seeing my my family dentist since I was 12.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, or probably get your patient, sure that's great. Look at you, dude.
Speaker 3:Yeah so well, I'm sure you knew that going in right. So, if I'm, if you're building a business from the ground up, you either have to like work really hard to convert people over most people already are seeing a dentist, yep or you have to find a niche or something which you did. So I'd love to hear, like how did you discover this, this pediatric dentistry, because that wasn't even a thing when we were kids? Yeah, I don't think did they exist 20 years ago? Not, not as many, yeah, probably, but yeah so.
Speaker 1:So pediatric dentistry is just you. You know another specialty of dentistry similar to ortho. You know an orthodontist or, like an endodontist, someone doing root canals all day or an oral surgeon. We all go to dental school and then after dental school, you go do a specialty. You know residency. So I worked in a children's hospital for two years as a resident specialized in kids, but I never thought during all my training you know undergrad, all those years of endless books and and all those things that I would ever come back to utah, because utah is like the worst per capita for insurance reimbursement for dentists, like we make the least here in the country interesting from our insurance companies because there's a dentist on every corner that's actually true for most healthcare professionals In Utah.
Speaker 1:It's just we're very we all want to come back here, like we all go out to school and everyone wants to come back, and I just never thought that.
Speaker 2:So are you saying that there's like a surplus of medical students and dentist students that come from Utah, for whatever reason?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah Well at per capita, yes for sure Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, and so professionals that live here now. Yeah, why?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, like I never thought I would I would, I would be back. But, um, after working for a little bit with a buddy out in Oregon and doing some different dental things, um, I was like, well, why did I do all that training If I can't go live by family and go live by the mountains and ski, you know, and and and live on the lake? So, um, I made the crazy decision to I'm just going to start my my thing from the ground up and I have to do it differently because everyone's already, you know everyone already has a dentist. They like, um, everyone's brother-in-law is a dentist in Utah.
Speaker 1:Uh, you know, everyone in their neighborhood knows a dentist. They like, everyone's brother-in-law is a dentist in Utah. You know, everyone in their neighborhood knows a few dentists. So I really spent some time trying to figure out, like, what does everyone else do and how do I not do that? But still stay true to myself, you know, without you know selling out or without being somebody or not. And so, yeah, very early on, it was like most dentists will go find again another brother-in-law or another professional that can make them a logo that is their name and some mountains and you know some teeth or a tooth and you can.
Speaker 1:You can think of every dental office you drive by is teeth or some mountains here. So met with him. He's like yeah, you know, um, I can make you a logo and and we'll try to try to make it fun. He's like but, uh, I just worked with this. These, these, uh designers, uh called hood spa. They're two sisters from southern california. They usually only do like font work for pixar and disney and they only do huge, you know, startup branding. He's like they're going to cost probably 20 times what I would charge you.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:He's like but it'll be the best decision you made because you'll stand out and so, like that was the very first thing I did was invest in my own brand, sure, and from there it was very simple to be me, to be different, and, um, that was a really cool process, working with them and building my brand and, you know, growing from nobody knowing me in the area to people wanting to drive an hour away. Yeah, yes, it's cool.
Speaker 2:Which is a really cool thing, because I think that you know, in the e-com space, what's very interesting is is a lot of people really invest in brand and so that's almost like like how do you not not saying that you create something ugly or something you know not boring like teeth and mountains, but the hard, the hard part is is like well, a lot of them aren't starting even that worried about acquiring customers, though, yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, because, it's already a built in, like, ok, I'll join as, like a junior partner at this dentistry and then, like, I'll eventually take it over Like it's just, or I'll create a relationship with a chiropractic you know firm that will then refer me.
Speaker 2:I will refer them because there's some ties there and you know. But yeah, I like. Your first thought process is like, hey, ever everything looks the same here, if I can have a happy tooth, that that represents dentistry but is so different, you know. I think that's a really cool principle. We talk about this all the time, like right now, like, uh, starting a company where you're selling a product has never been easier right now because of things like Tik TOK and Alibaba and what like.
Speaker 2:if I wanted to go start a toothbrush company, I could do it probably in three months.
Speaker 3:A hundred percent Right now I'm not saying it would be good, but I could get the product and I could start selling and I can start running ads. Have a website Easily, yep, run some ads.
Speaker 2:Yep, ai could build that for me, and so it's never been. It's never been easier. And the problem with what's happening right now is I think a lot of people have a mentality of like, oh, I can just do that and I can run ads the same way everyone else is doing. We all look at like, oh, brand X, y, z is doing it, and so you chase what they're doing. But the problem is, when we chase what they're doing, you just like how are you supposed to stand out when you're chasing what they're doing? So I love this like standout discussion love this like standout discussion.
Speaker 1:I mean, part of that is is because it's easier. There's so much saturation, you know, like even just content creation of, of apart from standing out as a dentist, just being online, like and trying to influence anybody on there have or bring value at all is there's, there's so many people doing it and and so, yeah, trying to trying to sift through that without copying, you know, and we all copy each other, but like trying to be, you know, original or um yeah have value that way.
Speaker 2:What, what, uh, so, as you like, kind of start to figure this out. Okay, cool, I'm going to invest in branding, I'm going to make myself look like I'm going to stand out, so I don't look like everybody else. What, like, did you have any sort of inspiration? Was there any brand or content creators that were inspiring you to be, for you to like have that click, to be like, oh dang, I could do this, like I could get attention this way?
Speaker 1:It's silly. Um, gary Vee, yeah, you know, um, love Gary Vee, um, and, and honestly, there wasn't. It's not that I was going to be gary v or create content the way he did, but just his like. Look, we got gardeners on youtube with millions of subscribers. You know making a living off of doing, you know making content off stuff they love so.
Speaker 1:But I didn't see anyone in the space that was, you know, a, a dentist that I was like, oh, I could do that. It was just like, ok, if someone talking about you know tires can have a ton of subscribers, right, I can talk about teeth and just. You know, I spent 10 years learning about this stuff and 20 years of my life trying to perfect the craft and all that. You know all these things. So let's just bring that and let's bring me, let's just film myself and see what happens. Um, and honestly, like I think that's where a lot of people stop is it seems so easy to post Um, but I remember my first like time getting in front of the camera. I had to be alone. I was like I can't do this in front of anyone.
Speaker 2:I had to be alone.
Speaker 1:I was like I can't do this for anyone, like sure. Sure, I'm gonna go make my first um video for for Instagram for my practice, to introduce myself and and it took me like an hour to make like a 20 second clip, like it was so I thought my voice sounded weird.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't?
Speaker 1:I hate the way that I look. I like it. You know, and, and, um, and so once you get over that, like we're just going to document what's happening and what we're doing is unique enough that that at least my space that it has resonated with so many um, parents and dental professionals all over it's been never thought it would be that I was just trying to get some patients in the door. You know, um, and now it's grown into a whole yeah, dental product co and um, crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how quickly did you start to see success when you started posting?
Speaker 1:Um. So for me, success wasn't, um, you know, followers or engagement. Uh, initially it was, uh, new patients in the door, like how many did I did, did we get to show up? Uh, new patients in the door, like how many did I did, did we get to show up? And so, um, I think the average dental practice, uh, you know, healthy pediatric dental practice, is getting maybe 70 to 80 new patients a month. Okay, um, our first month without any spending a dollar on advertising, it was just social media uh and posting kind of up to our, our grand opening. Um, we had like 435 patients our first month.
Speaker 3:That's so crazy. And also I don't want to undermine your content efforts, but you do have a great spot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but again that went back to branding.
Speaker 3:So I was curious do you think that spot also helped? You mean like as far?
Speaker 1:as traffic. Yeah, like you're right on 33rd.
Speaker 3:There's tons of families that take 33rd up to the freeway and down 80, so yeah, we're on 33rd, is it?
Speaker 2:I know it's right off 23rd and 33rd tell me where, like rei, mocha salsa is okay. So close to where, just just west of mocha salsa, okay, yeah, okay yep, just down the street that's my landmark yeah, mocha salsa man rip though.
Speaker 1:Yep, yeah, salsa man.
Speaker 2:RIP, though. Yeah, what is it now?
Speaker 3:Doesn't matter, that's another Mexican spot. Well, you know it went to Hector's, but it was still Mocha Salsa when Hector had it, and then now it's, I don't know.
Speaker 1:It's got a drive-thru, though I think still.
Speaker 3:I'm sure it's good burritos from there every now and again all right um sorry so I'm only bringing up the foot traffic because, you made two good decisions like the spot is really good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, three good decisions the branding, the branding the spot.
Speaker 3:So like when you drive, like right, when you guys open, like I'm this is my neighborhood, like where he is, like this is like where I grew up. Um spent my whole life there, like going to breakfast at over the counter down the road from you, and, and so we. I noticed the day it went up. It's like, oh, there's that, that's cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Pediatric dentistry that's cool, sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so early on, you know cause we would track. And that was five years ago, that was five, yeah, 20,. 2020 is, uh, honestly, april 2020, I think is when I signed the lease there and then we didn't finish construction until uh, yeah, good timing, right, um, until uh, november. So peak, peak, covid, like how are you? Yeah, my kid was two at the time because I remember thinking oh, pediatric dentistry.
Speaker 2:Like my kids too like do we need to take them to the dentist? You know, like as a dad, I'm like do we?
Speaker 3:does he have teeth? That's your first two years old. Those are gonna fall out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like we should probably go sometime, yeah, um, I mean. So, yeah, early on, like we, we spent a lot of time tracking. How'd you hear about us? Um, and for the first, like two years, 80 of our business was social media so awesome. I love that you're tracking it so yeah, yeah, which again most, most dentists don't like they just throw money at a billboard or a mailer.
Speaker 3:So you, so you, you said 450.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So basically, you would have been the average.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yep, foot traffic and insurance 70, 80. Yep, yep and so like all this yeah, all these free.
Speaker 1:You know customers came in and and again. If we can win them over with it, you know they'd like their dentist. They're probably going to stay for a while. Now my kids grow out of it. I'm not going to have them until they're 40. You know I'm going to have them until they're, you know, teenage years. Um, but so I got to continue that grind of of finding new patients. But now we're having a different issue of being able to fit them all in.
Speaker 2:Are you thinking about opening up multiple practices?
Speaker 1:That's a whole other discussion. Yeah, yeah, I left Oregon because my buddy was growing a and this is actually what medicine did in the 90s. They had all the private equity came in and said we're going to just start buying a bunch of mom-pa physician practices and then we're going to throw them all together and be able to recap and and and just roll right. Um, and now medicine is basically just a few large organizations happening in dentistry, um, this and so, and. And I went out to oregon my buddy to kind of do the same. Okay, let's, we got, we got private equity going, we started to buy a bunch of practices. And uh, I just kind of realized, like that's, that's not what I want to do, I want to do my own thing. Um, and so, yeah, I forgot the question. But uh, we're, we're along the line somewhere it was more just it was.
Speaker 2:Are you going to put up more practice?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, so so the yeah, thank you, thanks. That's the ADHD kicking in. The downside with becoming a corporation, especially in healthcare, is really the only people that it hurts are the patients. You end up buying a bunch of practices and providers, kind of you plug and play and you're you're really just looking at profit, margin and and and value versus what value are we offering the patients, and we're talking about kids like I didn't want to compromise on that, so so it's really something I've looked at probably since I opened my own was yeah with the success we've had where it seemed almost too simple like we could go and make 50 of these all over the country sure I don't want to do it in the way that all these dental organizations are doing.
Speaker 1:I want a dentist to be able to use the brand, but do it in their own way and we'll help them with all these different things. But they have to have ownership. It can't be a plug and play Like it's your city.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:Your neighborhood. We want you to own it. Yeah your neighborhood. We want you to own it. Yeah, we'll just franchise it sure um and we've toyed around that for five years, um, but I think, with the way our product goes going, I don't think I'll franchise, I don't think I'll open another yeah we just get a with the dream.
Speaker 2:Yeah, talk to us about the product co line now yeah.
Speaker 1:So, again, I think it stems from that early decision of of creating a brand that was very much me, and then a space like it was very easy to create a space that matched that brand. And then content creation rolls from there, like very easy to create content to a degree if you have a beautiful space and and some fun branding to go with it. Um, about two years in, uh, of growing on social media and growing my practice, my my good buddy, uh, jeremy Neff, reached out and said hey, I've been in the e-commerce space for a long time. Like, I think you could create, create a product with your brand and and have a lot of success with it. Um, and so we kind of went to the drawing board of, well, what, what could it be?
Speaker 1:Um, already a billion types of toothbrushes out there, or toothpaste or different things, and ultimately came back to I have a lot of parents that declined fluoride in my practice. Yeah, now the state has followed suit. Yeah, but it was most of most of our parents weren't brushing fluoride toothpaste right, so it was mine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so um I grew up taking the fluoride pills though.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, you grew, though, yeah yeah, that's great, I'll do like the application of it. I think that's the safest form but that's all she'll do with the kids. She'll take it home and like apply it.
Speaker 1:I don't know like how it works, but no, it's great, but that was a concern with a lot of my parents. That we were seeing is is they don't take fluoride, but they don't. They brush with basically just water. I mean it's a fluoride free toothpaste but it didn't have anything to really supplement enamel rebuild and so you know, there was a couple hydroxy appetite toothpaste brands out at the time and we found a local manufacturer for one of the biggest, uh, natural toothpaste brands here in utah, sweet and we we just got the ball rolling. But but with that branding, with that concept, it became very like okay, we're gonna make clean, safe ingredients, uh products that aren't out there, we're gonna make them look the same way the dental practice does the same way I do, and we're gonna market them the same way, yeah and now does the same way I do, and we're going to market them the same way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and now we're the number six best selling children's toothpaste on Amazon.
Speaker 3:So we've been on.
Speaker 1:Amazon for a year and a half and it's just been like that's wild man Crazy.
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Speaker 2:Dude, you know what I love about this Like so you brought up at one point. It's like what's cool about dentistry is like you've been going to the same dentist for the last 25 years or whatever it sounds like Now like you. Like you said, from a pediatric perspective, that can't happen, but I imagine what happens is like kids stuff is so much more important to adults than adult stuff is right meaning, like I go to the dentist. I used to go to the dentist ever, twice a year. I go to the dentist once every four or five years now you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Now I have really good teeth like I've had one cat. Yes, yeah, smile, yeah, I've had one cavity my whole life, you know, and I'm convinced that the dentist that I went to lied to me about it. But he was out on the East Coast and I was on my mission. It was the only time I got a cavity, so I don't believe it. Anyways, when were you at Harrisburg Pennsylvania?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2:So, but anyways, the lung. So what I was saying is like I bet you get a lot of referrals, like I bet that that is super strong. Oh, you got to go here because of X, y, z, um, and then the people who the kids, like your kids, who go there are going to then have their kids go there, right, so anyways, the longevity of the patient is huge, as long as the product's good. The other thing about what you're doing right here with the product co is the longevity. I bet the lifetime value is huge and I say that as somebody who has been a.
Speaker 2:So I was a quip, you know, I was a quip customer, like probably six months into them being in business, which is probably 10 years out now, maybe eight to 10 years. I am still a quip owner and it's probably things that are much better. Your stuff is probably. Now I don't do their toothpaste anymore because I do something more natural. They don't do that but I do there. What do you use? By the way, I am a xylitol guy, okay, you know, tall toothpaste like a.
Speaker 1:You know, I came so unprepared I should, I should have had all sorts stuff. You guys. Will make it happen. Round two is uh, I'm getting biome, what's that?
Speaker 3:called biome. Yeah'm getting biome. What's that?
Speaker 1:It's called biome yeah, I know biome. Yeah, I don't know what's in it.
Speaker 2:My wife does the Just Ingredients one, yeah, just Ingredients is great. Yeah, yeah, the powder. Yeah, she does the powder. I hate it Every time she puts it.
Speaker 1:I'm like this is so gross. What are you doing? Assistant? Uh, basically, and my and her assistant um your assistant's assistant, my, yeah, my assistant's assistant. Yeah, we got bougie, we got so many things going on, but, um, both of them got stolen from me uh, like two months ago probably, that's when I took over my dms and that's when this happened, yeah, um, and so you can thank me for being here, but, but you can we'll blame her for.
Speaker 1:but like they both worked for happy tooth and and and created our content with me and we did a bunch of fun stuff and and I can't compete with these amazing software companies, and so, uh, and one got stolen by the Utah jazz. So it's it's cool to have a brand, but it's tough to keep um, talent. Yeah, yeah, and so usually they would have stuff for me to give, and I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:Yes, I came unprepared well, but but, like I said, what I like about this is bro, you got all the time I have to buy some at the office no, I need to give you guys some good stuff now he's getting his expander taken off
Speaker 3:next week. That's awesome. So they'll be in there next week. I'll say go pick up some toothpaste or we can just buy it online.
Speaker 2:A couple clicks here and there yeah, I think, if we spend over 46.
Speaker 3:I saw it's weird I'm in e-commerce but I like actively try to avoid buying on amazon no, not amazon.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, shopify. We're gonna shop my sitecom yeah, try happy toothcom.
Speaker 3:yeah, but that's three day shipping, right? Ah, probably probably not in utah so I'm yeah, our stuff.
Speaker 2:Pick it up, all right. Well, anyways, you have to.
Speaker 1:I'm assuming you sell it in the store. So we did for a minute and now all of our stuff just gets sent straight to our warehouse. It's coming off our shelves.
Speaker 3:I guess we got to wear online.
Speaker 1:Ok, well, we always have some that I would. I would give her. Yeah, ok, yeah, we give. So that was another cool thing. Early on I was actually buying Quip brushes and they would give us toothpaste for my patients. I wanted that patient loyalty to be really strong. We opened up and now we've been able to replace all those cheap and crappy dental products that you get when you're a little baggy, when you're a dentist, with Happy Tooth products, so it's all your product.
Speaker 1:We give them a little Happy Tooth shoe box, like a little mini one, because I like shoes. You're a big shoe guy, right? Yeah, yeah, I like shoes, I wear them all. Not a collector, but, um, no offense collectors. But yeah, we give every kid their own little black happy tooth shoe box and then it's got all of our products in there and stickers, yeah it's.
Speaker 3:It's fun, kids like it so to to pivot a little bit, because, because we're talking about this, how do you, what have you learned about marketing to parents? Right, because when you're selling kid products, kids aren't buying it right Especially something like toothpaste.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 3:So what have you learned with your dentistry? That's also converted over to the product side of how you talk and relate to parents, even though it's a kid product.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I mean, now our products have grown to include the whole family, but that that is a very it's an awesome question, because that was a concern even opening my practice and then opening e-commerce brand. Is kids not seeing this content? Um, it's not making the decision to come in and and uh. So we have to appeal to parents, you know, moms yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Ages 20 to 40, um or so, and so that was kind of our target market. Um. And yeah, I think the practice of posting every day for for my practice, um kind of grew this muscle of okay, we know what, we know what moms like, we know what parents like, we know how to kind of get their attention and that just kind of has very organically transferred into, uh, what we're doing with our, our product code.
Speaker 3:Without giving away any secrets. What is it that gets a mom's attention?
Speaker 2:That's a great question that mug, the mustache and the mug.
Speaker 3:That's just a handsome face.
Speaker 2:Who's the country singer right now that is going, is it Riley? Do you know who I'm talking about?
Speaker 1:Waylon Morgan. I got called Morgan Waylon by grandma the other day at my practice.
Speaker 2:I think it's like Riley Green or something like that. He's got a music video that's like very saucy and he's got like I thought you were saying like doppelganger. He and he's got like I thought you seen like doppelganger, like he kind of looks like me. He's got like. He's got kind of like you know longish.
Speaker 2:I know your hair's not like super long, but it kind of has that like well flow to it and it's got the flow to it and he puts the cowboy hat on and he's got like a fresh mustache, like you do that was me the other night at Post Malone. Yeah, yeah, and it's a very sexy look right now I?
Speaker 1:I want to say it's oh, the mustache.
Speaker 2:Grace will have to look it up.
Speaker 3:Look at the country singer Is the mustache making a comeback with the ladies, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:I think it's Riley Green country singer Tom Selleck. But girls are fawning over this music video right now Hilarious, that's amazing Because it's a little spicy and he's a hunk.
Speaker 1:So besides, your yeah, besides this ugly mug.
Speaker 3:What is attracting and how do you talk to moms Like what catches their attention?
Speaker 1:Man, like that's something that I've been really thinking about over the last few months, as I knew my two assistants were leaving and like, do I want to hire people to continue to help me do that, or is the landscape shifting? Do I want to hire people that can continue to help me do that, or or is the landscape shifting? And I feel like there is like this, this shift, and and I'm I'm trying to grasp what it is and and ultimately, I don't know how much I care for my practice, but the product, of course, and so that's something that I'm that I'm still trying to figure out, I think, and you can't stop trying to figure out, I think, and you can't stop trying to figure out what's going to grab attention. I think, uh, early on, like from from my experience it was, and every time I go speak at conferences or dental schools, it's like branding, branding, branding, find a brand that that is so you know, and and again, you guys, that is e-commerce is like having a brand that that jumps out.
Speaker 3:Um, and so our content was although you'd be surprised how many people are scared to do that.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:Right Like everyone everyone like as much as you need to. Most people want to blend in.
Speaker 2:Hence why we had that's why we want you, that's why we voted you on, but like.
Speaker 1:I think just I mean, a hook is we're that first. One or two seconds is everything right. And so I think, very quickly, our bright colors or our you know mural wall that says bite me, or us being in our basketball court, or us me having dental loops, but looking this way is like this is who's this guy?
Speaker 2:yeah, he's a dentist, if you're listening to this. He is not your like typical clean, shaven, button up like. He's got sleeve tattoo here he's got a mustache. He's wearing a beanie, like is you're not your stereotypical dentist by any means yeah, barely.
Speaker 1:I'm just a kid's dentist, though, you know, and everything I do falls out anyways. So, um, no, but um, which was also an interesting thought early on, is like I'm coming back to Utah, um, every day, you know what? Every day. Like you could paint a picture right now of every single dentist in the Valley, right, um, and I'm a kid's dentist. Like how are parents going to trust this? Uh, but, but getting back to content creation, like that that stands out and I and I don't do this for anyone else, but I think that's part of what's worked is like I dress the way that I want and I think it. It actually works for kids. They like it. They're scared of scrubs or the white coat. I'm still scared of going to the dentist.
Speaker 2:Or just makes them look like dad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, exactly, that's kind of how I feel.
Speaker 2:It's like you look like my dad.
Speaker 1:So often mom's like look, he's got shoes, just like dad.
Speaker 2:Or look, he's got a. Spider-man tattoo just like dad or whatever it is.
Speaker 1:And so that is an awesome barrier. And then the other side of content creation is you got to find beyond the hook, you got to really bring value, and so for me that's easy. I spent a long time learning about teeth and so bringing value, uh, is, you know, I have people come to see me for the things that I've learned or can do, I guess. Uh, not that I'm, it's just teeth. We're not, I'm not a heart surgeon, chill out. So but um, and then you gotta, you gotta provide that value in so many different ways, like from from when real, like I think my practice opened when tiktok was becoming something totally 2019 20.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right um, and so it's evolved so much from I'm gonna get on and do a behind you know, behind the scenes. I'm gonna get on and and talk about this and that, and now it's it's, it's, it changes so fast, um. So that's something that I'm I'm always trying to figure out is how do we continue to grasp attention and not just be this, not just get lazy with okay, we know this works, let's just keep doing that because it doesn't work. You know, over time it fades out, um, but there's core principles that work and yeah, can I?
Speaker 3:can I like give a little diet, like I'm just going to dissect it a little bit?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, let's get into it.
Speaker 3:Well, I don't think you're giving yourself enough credit. Maybe some of this was just natural and it just happened, but what it is is when you're talking to moms about their kids. You have to be an expert about what you do, but it's the juxtaposition right of the, the wisdom right, but you're also at the level, like you're coming down to the level of a kid. Yeah, so like that's what that does for moms, is it says, hey, they know what they're talking about, but it's interesting, right, it's kind of like when there's a whole thing about this, like when people at different cultures like pick up something like in the in another culture, right, like Japanese people playing country music, right, is like more interesting than seeing people in Kentucky play country music, totally, yeah, yeah, on social media, for sure, right, cause it's like a. That juxtaposition of, yeah, wait, what Like you guys are that interested in that, like that's interesting. So it's like, hey, loose, cool, normal guy, yeah, but oh, that's interesting, like he's actually a real dentist, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So that juxtaposition, but then also coming down the level of the kids, where it's fun, right, so a mom can start seeing, oh, it's such Like they don't want to open their mouth, like it's always a fight. Yeah, so now it's an environment where they can go in and be stoked way more loose. Yeah, right.
Speaker 3:So like I don't know if you actively tried to alleviate that anxiety, because that's the stress of the mom, right Like what you're solving for her is the pain of taking my kid to the dentist because it's sterile and it's like, oh, like they can't run around either. Like there's no room for the kid, yeah, or you opened it up, you have room for the kid to run, so the mom doesn't have to worry about like hey, sit down, don't move.
Speaker 1:Like it's our turn. Definitely, I think I think I had some things going for me in the fact that you were mentioning when I have a tooth hurt me, I'm not going to see the dentist for a year. I'm going to wait on that tooth for a year.
Speaker 1:When your kid complains of tooth pain, you're the next day, right, so I have that going for me, right, but, but from um, the other side of things is, um, they could go to the dentist two doors down or, you know, 10 minutes down or an hour away.
Speaker 1:So, um, yeah, or an uncle, yes, exactly right, especially here in utah. But, um, I don't know if it's my old, my own like childhood traumas or my own like experience of the dentist, but like, I tried to spend, um, you know, like be as a child walking into my practice and trying to smell and feel everything that a dentist office is, and not be that, because that's terrifying, you know. So we tried to create a children's museum. In the front it's got a slide and a light, bright wall and a big mural that says bite me, which some parents find offensive, but I think it's funny. So we got a basketball. Like it doesn't look or feel or smell like a dental office. Um, we wanted the same with our products, like I didn't want a tube of toothpaste that was blue and white or blue or white, and red, like the two main that we see at the grocery store.
Speaker 1:Um, and now I love there's a lot more color and exciting things. Uh, with dental products it's, it's becoming, and again I didn't want the other side of it, which was Disney, or you know like they try to market to kids with a little more on the cheesy side and it was like like we're not marketing to the kid. We need to create a product that kids will like, but we got to market to the parents, so I wanted something aesthetic, which I knew my practice was yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So, um, so we had to create a product, product that appealed to mom's safe, clean ingredients, you know, locally manufactured, um, and that the colors were still fun enough for the kid but ultimately appealed it's going to be, you know, for the mom, it's going to be on their, their counter Right. And so I hate seeing no offense to, like frozen or, you know, just like all those toothbrushes and toothpaste, I'm like this is so annoying, like my, but that's that's work. Like kids and parents alike like the product for their own reasons, different reasons, and that's been a fun thing to navigate and play with.
Speaker 2:I like this question because this can fit into other people. Like there's a lot of people well, you know the metric to this. I always forget it. But like is it? 80% of all household decisions are made by mom.
Speaker 3:Yeah, something like that.
Speaker 2:Maybe even 90%. Yeah Right, like household purchases? Yeah, so I think mom makes, and household purchases are anything from food to toothpaste to clothes now dads will buy the stuff, but the decision, like the, person who's deciding is mom like.
Speaker 3:I often go to the grocery store, but I am there with a list right from a hundred percent my wife like she's the one that's saying so, do this.
Speaker 2:We're like go to Costco, grab me that right so the reason why I like this conversation is because we're talking about it from a dentist perspective. But the principles are like true for anybody who's selling 100, right? We realized really early. So we used to be, uh, you know, part of a, a bigger brand here in Utah that was selling diaper bags to moms. And we realized really early on is that, you know, we never wanted to get into the Disney, for you know patterns, frizzy, fluffy stuff Um, because the diaper bag, though it was meant to be an accessory to help the baby Mom was wearing it.
Speaker 2:It needed to be an accessory for mom, yep, and it's the same thing with kids clothes, right, even though the kids wearing it. Guess how you like, like parents especially, like I've got three kids, I've got a 12 year old, a 10 year old and a six year old and when my kids go to school, it's a reflection, at least I, of how their parents are going to think of me. So my son, like he's always like, this is him. This is not me pushing it on him, by the way.
Speaker 2:He's always wearing Jordans and he's always got like a retro 90s basketball jersey.
Speaker 1:So he's wearing like an Iverson jersey or he's wearing like a Ken Griffey baseball jersey or something like that and I'm like, ok, cool, he's going to go to somebody's house and they're going to think that, like, oh, that's gotta be a cool dad, or that's you know, it sounds stupid, it sounds so stupid but like that is how it is Right.
Speaker 2:So when you're marketing girls clothes, you're marketing to the mom like she's got to be, like okay, that's going to look cute on her and that's going to you know whether, whether we, like it, won't fight it either.
Speaker 1:Like it's very true, but you got to find a way to yeah, of course, make it good for the kid too right, especially with with kids, like they're with young kids, I think, because my I got a 13 year old he turned 13 yesterday, but like for a long time of his, of his life, and I have four sons, but, um, it's like they're you, they're, they're an extension of you, right, right, like you're saying, and so you have to appeal to the parent in everything that you're doing there, and it takes us a while as parents to kind of separate like wait, hold on, they're their own person, they're not me, even though it feels like my heart's out there walking around and I clothe it and I want it to look a certain way and do a certain thing, like that's a hard thing to separate, but in e-commerce world like you can use that your advantage and you know in so many ways.
Speaker 1:So totally.
Speaker 3:Well, there's also a lot more control, from zero to 10. Yeah, yeah. Right, yep, like once they hit 10, it's like good, good luck. You're going to have a lot of friction in your house.
Speaker 2:You're trying to dress your kid. So true.
Speaker 3:Even like seven or eight, it's like starts growing. Like you know, we don't dress our. We haven't dressed our oldest in a long time, yes, and we don't even dress our five-year-old. But you know, yeah, he's. He only has what he has to choose from, which is our stuff. Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1:I don't dress them, but I make sure. But you dress them, yeah, but I dress them but I put what's in their closet for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Every now and then you give like that's how we were, every now and then like our. We gave our kids like a couple cheesy things that they like would pick that You're like. Oh, I hate it when you wear that, but you're happy, so I'm happy just as long as that's. That's not what you're wearing to the party the girl little girl's party you're going to on Saturday, saturday morning or something like that.
Speaker 3:Dude, my five-year-old always wears orange shorts and a red shirt and it drives my wife nuts, it's great. Like the orange and the red.
Speaker 1:It's a good combo, Like oh, start of the rainbow Great.
Speaker 2:Horrible. Well, I've got some questions. I've got some like I was just thinking about this just because of what you do, right From the entrepreneur perspective, as well as the content creator.
Speaker 1:So this of what you do, right from the entrepreneur perspective, as well as the content creator.
Speaker 2:So this is like the uh, let's call it overrated or underrated. Cool, right, so you give it an overrated ready and if you can think of any others, you feel free to toss them in here. Um, all right, let's go with uh. So a lot of these are going to be around content, but let's go being the face of your business overrated, underrated man, that's such a good question.
Speaker 1:Um, I am the face of both my businesses, so I have to say um underrated, but I really believe that there it can be um overrated, okay, um, how's right? We're trying to have me not be um to for for the product co.
Speaker 3:Um, um this is what everyone says, by the way, yeah okay, okay.
Speaker 1:So I'm not like some unique cool like eventually you don't want like every business owner doesn't want to have to rely on their face.
Speaker 2:They get really nervous, right. How can you sell it if you're the face?
Speaker 1:yep that's a big thing and which is why I didn't name the spot. Uh, or our products dr hanks toothpaste. You know um we want to exit eventually. Um, hopefully soon. I'm just kidding, but um always looking um, yeah, so and that's with underrated on that one. Yeah underrated is good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like it or maybe we'll say a face having someone's face yeah, like you want, and I think it's still evolving, but you want, you want a story. You want to be able to tell a story, and I think it's very easy to connect with the person, yeah, when the story's being told.
Speaker 2:So I like it all right. What about posting every day overrated, underrated?
Speaker 1:underrated yeah like it definitely like come. I mean, I can't even count how many times we over the last five years have spent time thinking this is funny, this one like people are going to like this and we spend an hour and a half on it and then another two hours editing or whatever, and I don't edit.
Speaker 1:So they spend hours editing and it gets 10 likes, you know, or the one that we put together without even thinking. It's like, hey, we haven't posted a let's, this is good, let's throw this together. And it gets 8 million views. It's like okay. So it really is like keep your, keep your um line in the water, sure, um at bats.
Speaker 1:Yeah, get your at bats. Um, cause, you don't know, there's quite a bit of luck involved with what goes viral. What gets people going. This one's kind of similar going viral, overrated, underrated man nuance there Overrated to an extent, but if you can keep that momentum going, I think it. Um, the cool thing is a lot of our biggest days in sales for e-commerce go, or when we had a huge, a huge post go viral, the post wasn't about our products but other stuff and people saw the brand and were like wait. And in the comments they're asking well, okay then what toothpaste? Or okay then what? What do you recommend for this? Like that's where we get a ton of sales as well. So both yeah, like you can't rely on the viral posts, but um, and they don't really turn into much often. But but, um, if, if you can get lucky and be creative enough, I think I think they can.
Speaker 2:I like it. Okay, uh, building in public, meaning like documenting what you're doing, hmm, overrated, underrated.
Speaker 1:Depends how you turn that into uh, content. So like filming while you're in public, I think is great, feel like film document as much as you can, but how do you turn that into content that people are actually going to watch is the key. So, uh, I think it's underrated. Like keep the camera going, which I usually have yeah again two or three people here, yeah, filming, getting b-roll, yeah, your role is so such an easy way to create content of me out doing all these different things.
Speaker 2:And then we post like brush your teeth and put all you know like, yeah, that's why we have great. I don't know if you saw him.
Speaker 1:He was filming all right, like he came in here and just like took a couple shots, so yeah I like it uh.
Speaker 2:What about like um entrepreneur groups?
Speaker 1:great question overrated under. I'm not in any okay, um, but my partner, I think, is in all of them. Okay, uh, yeah, jeremy Neff, um, so my co-founder, um, so that's my answer.
Speaker 2:Um.
Speaker 1:I think he, I think he gets a lot of value.
Speaker 2:He would say underrated.
Speaker 1:You would maybe say I'm going to lean with him. Underrated, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:All right, I mean in the same group, in the same vein. Then networking groups a little bit different right. Entrepreneur groups are where, like, you've got a set amount of people that are all founders and they're the only ones who can be in it, whereas a networking event could be anybody.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but maybe I'll say underrated for like a specific, like entrepreneur group, and then overrated for for for networking things yeah.
Speaker 1:I think, um, we've actually like we bootstrapped our entire e-commerce company and so that's been, and now trying to sustain year over year growth three or four years in a row is like, how do we keep doing this? Just him and I, and. But I think having a group like that to lean on and to know what things to look for, you know, when we're trying to exit, or whatever maybe is has been having people that have done it, it's been helpful Cool.
Speaker 2:Cool, We'll go a couple more Company culture overrated, underrated.
Speaker 1:Underrated. Yeah, why Everything? Yeah, I mean everything is marketing. Right, like, branding is the first thing, but everything is marketing, and so if your company culture is crap, it's a reflection of you, same as your kids, sure sure you know like, and no offense to parents out there and kids, but like you know what I'm saying, that if I don't know.
Speaker 1:We know some kids are kind of their own thing, yeah right, but like, and some employees kind of do their own thing. But if you don't have that culture, where, where, like I don't know, we all have this intuition, like this feeling of of people's vibes, whatever it is energy, and it's like if the energy is off, whether you're going through their content or you're looking through their website or you walk into their brick and mortar like you.
Speaker 1:Just doubt plays a big. Like is a big factor in whether we buy or not. Like is this is this legit company, is this you know? And so yeah, that the culture is is everything. It can be comforting, it can be fun and exciting, or it can just be boring or create doubt. Yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 3:I like that because I think we talked about this the other day is everyone thinks a brand is your logo, and I think that's the start of a brand, but what your brand really is is how much trust you have.
Speaker 2:Right For whatever you're doing, what people think about you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so like if they trust you, if you've built trust around whatever you're doing, what people think about you. Yeah, so like if they trust you, if you've built trust around whatever you're doing, then you have a brand. Yep, right, like a lot of people think they have brands they don't like, you have a, you got a cool logo you have a cool logo and that's the start, right like you have to start somewhere.
Speaker 3:So we're not saying that hook like you said, you started with the hook, like you started building something, but you didn't have a brand on day one. No, but now you have a brand because you've built trust over time.
Speaker 2:Once you have people coming back, right, yeah, that's really when the brand starts and a culture is a reflection of that trust especially for a brand like yours right yeah that people are seeing on a six month basis yeah, six months.
Speaker 1:Or online, yeah, yeah, um sure, and then you like, and then you gotta have a product that that matches that culture and you have product that brings value. So totally you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like it. Okay, We'll go one more last one here, just because this is such a hot topic in the like entrepreneurial space, especially online morning routines. Overrated, underrated overrated, overrated.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, overrated, overrated.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Um no, no, 4am ice baths for you.
Speaker 1:No, that's so funny. Yeah, um, no, man, I like we're all different. Like some people are night owls, some people are morning people, and to put yourself into somebody else's box is is probably not going to work for you, um, and so I don't have morning routine. I wake up at eight o'clock and I'm seeing patients by eight 30, you know, um, that is what it is, um, but I stay up late and I I get a lot of stuff done late and you know I kind of I work out late, you know, um, so I ha, we all have routines, but I think, ultimately, having a routine is not, I think, is underrated, sure, but like, specifically, morning is, I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you don't see the hot fuss.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but if you don't have a routine, especially as an entrepreneur, I think, dennis, there was a study long time ago that have the highest suicide rate because you're you're a provider and you're an entrepreneur and you have all this training and being a provider and absolutely no training being an entrepreneur and usually people in healthcare aren't the best salespeople, um, and so there's this stress level that happens. But you guys know, similar study with with entrepreneurship is high risk factor for anxiety and depression. You know, um, adhd, all these, all these different things, mental health disorders. So having routine has saved me when I didn't have it when I started, for sure, absolutely saved me. I had to hit, go through you know some dark, you know times to try to find, okay, what, what's going to work for me, and and even from a schedule, being able to hey, let's dial this back or let's push the gas here.
Speaker 1:I think all that is so underrated at figuring that out, because it's not just money, money, money, money, margin margin, margin uh, revenue, right, you know, it's like what's going to work for us, um, and that's something we Jeremy and I my co-founder we try to figure out, and then my wife and I try to figure out for the practice, and yeah, so, awesome Long answer.
Speaker 2:I like it. Got anything else on those questions. No answer, I like it. Got anything else on those questions.
Speaker 1:No, those, those are great answers. Where can people find you? Yeah, so you can find us. You know instagram tiktok at happy tooth slc. Um, we got a shopify site with all of our clean, safe dental products for family at try happy toothcom. And then we're also on amazon and nice um, or just come down the street uh mill creek and knock on the door and we'll fix some teeth killer dude.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much appreciate it. Thank you guys for having me glad we finally got on your calendar.
Speaker 1:I don't like doing much outside of just fixing teeth, spending time with my kids, so it's always hard to get me out. I don't think this directly puts patients in my chair and I really don't care about that anymore but, I think there is. I I feel fulfilled in in the fact that, like I don't know if there's an entrepreneur out there or a dentist out there that finds any value in this thing and hang out with you guys, it's great. If there's anyone that finds value, it's, it's worth it.
Speaker 2:So they're definitely thanks for getting me out here. So we appreciate it, man Well. We appreciate it, man Well. Thank you so much. Thank you, everybody for listening and tuning in and we'll see you guys next week. Thank you so much for listening to the Unstoppable Marketer podcast. Please go rate and subscribe the podcast, whether it's good or bad. We want to hear from you, because we always want to make this podcast better. If you want to get in touch with me or give me any direct feedback, please go follow me and get in touch with me. I am at the Trevor Crump on both Instagram and TikTok. Thank you, and we will see you next week.