EP. 135 Brand Identity Crisis: Inclusivity Vs Exclusivity

Mark Goldheart and Hevor Krump dissect the aftermath of American Eagle's Sydney Sweeney ad campaign. They explore the pitfalls of chasing trends, the power of niching down in marketing, and why inclusivity isn't always the best strategy for brands. The duo delves into case studies like Lululemon and TikToker Hubs Life to illustrate the risks of expanding too broadly or changing your core audience. They argue that successful marketing often requires targeting specific demographics, even if it means excluding others.

Follow Trevor Crump on Instagram and TikTok @thetrevorcrump for more marketing insights and direct feedback.

Transcript

The Riches in the Niches

Speaker 1 0:00

So if you're a brand, I think that the point is is like niching can feel like you're being mean, but you know they say the riches are in the niches. It's just much easier to talk to people when you know who you're talking to.

Speaker 2 0:12

Yo, what's going on everybody? Welcome to the Unstoppable Marketer podcast. With me, as always, is Mark Goldheart. Mark Goldheart, how are you?

Speaker 1 0:21

Doing well Good Going on a fishing trip tomorrow.

Speaker 2 0:25

You are. I didn't know about this.

Speaker 1 0:28

You don't need to know.

Speaker 2 0:29

Yeah.

Speaker 1 0:30

I'll be working.

Speaker 2 0:31

Nice, where are you going?

Speaker 1 0:34

Manti LaSalle area. Find some dinosaurs? We'll try, we'll try. Yeah, but yeah, it's just one of my favorite little fishing holes and creeks. Nice, so I'll be working. Starlink hashtag. Starlink, yeah hashtag. Starlink, so my days won't look that different. Honestly, sure I get to walk out of the trailer, go fish in the morning.

Speaker 2 1:02

Come back work, come back work, fish later.

Speaker 1 1:04

Maybe fish during lunch a little. Come back work, come back work. Fish later, maybe fish during lunch a little. Yeah, come back work.

Speaker 2 1:07

Are you bringing the kids and the wife?

Speaker 1 1:09

No, no, this is just some buddies.

Speaker 2 1:10

Nice, very cool. Mark's always trying to get me to come with him and I have yet to come with him in his trailer on a fishing trip.

Speaker 1 1:16

And I should, you won't, I will scared a little nervous of the wilderness yeah, I don't do well. Mountain lions, yeah, um there are mountain lions in this area and people have been stalked. So you do have to yeah, you have to carry some protection and firearms.

Speaker 2 1:35

Yeah, just in case well, we got a shorty podcast today, a quickie, quickie, yep, everyone loves a quickie. So that's what I've heard. Um, let's do a quick refresher. So last week, if you listened, you taught, we talked about, we broke down the sydney sweeney ad that everyone's discussed and talked about. And so, naturally, seven days later, I have to be like, okay, what's going on with this? Like, what's the repercussions? Are we hearing? Like, is american eagle getting trashed? Are they on the up and up? What's?

Speaker 1 2:05

going on. So then, 28 days later, Are you referencing this show?

Speaker 2 2:08

Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 2:10

We don't know how the contagion effect has really impacted the environment for 28, until 28 days.

Speaker 2 2:19

Well, we're only like 10 days deep into this, so 10 days later.

Speaker 1 2:24

The virality. If you go, you go and look. You get it, though, because it's like viral like a virus yeah, I like it.

Speaker 2 2:29

I think like a zombie virus yeah, I think it's good. Um so, 10 days later, search volume is still at an all-time high, like it's dipped slightly. If you're looking at google trends and I will send this over to you so you can kind of like look at the.

Speaker 1 2:45

Google.

Speaker 2 2:46

Trend. It is peaking. It's, yeah, but it's still where's my Google? There we go, but as you can see in blue, like it's still there, Sydney, sweeney, and that's me looking at American Eagle, not Sydney Sweeney, okay.

Speaker 1 2:59

The brand.

Speaker 2 3:07

But a couple things have happened since then. Okay, american sorry Old Navy and Abercrombie have kind of responded back to this ad Okay. And they have created what is what I would deem as a more like inclusive ad from a Well what?

Sydney Sweeney Ad Follow-up

Speaker 1 3:18

I think we should take a step back though. Okay, shall we Please? Irregardless of how it was perceived, and I get it Intentions don't always matter, like you know.

Speaker 2 3:28

Sure, you can still offend somebody without intentionally doing so.

Speaker 1 3:33

What their like, what their clap backs are is simply taking what they viewed as the negative reception of the. Sydney Sweeney ad.

Speaker 2 3:43

Yes.

Speaker 1 3:43

And taking like the negative angle of how you might interpret it, yeah, and coming back with a positive spin on that, like they weren't really calling out, they were kind of calling out American Eagle, but it wasn't like super direct.

Speaker 2 3:59

No, but it for sure was intentional.

Speaker 1 4:01

Yes, but it was intentional, so just lay that out there, right, like they are basically saying okay, how can you take the american eagle ad negatively? Yeah but some people took it negatively because they felt like it was exclusive and racial right, yeah, racially driven right. So they they came because of the reference of jeans yes so clearly it's just a play on jeans or jeans.

Speaker 2 4:28

Yeah, jeans, jeans and the fact that sydney swedish is the hottest female actor. When I say hottest, I mean I don't necessarily mean physically really should we rank the female actresses? I, I mean, I bet that she is the most talked about female actress from a beauty perspective right now, at At least top three.

Speaker 1 4:46

I have no idea she is. Yeah, she's obviously the hottest name. Yeah, 100%, Like I'm trying to think of At least actress-wise.

Speaker 2 4:53

I would think Like when we were growing up.

Speaker 1 4:55

I don't even know. I would say like Alicia, what Alicia Silver something. She was a pretty hot name for a minute.

Speaker 2 5:05

Alicia Silver something. What is alicia silver something? She like she was a pretty hot name for a minute. Alicia silver jessica alba.

Speaker 1 5:10

Jessica alba when we were younger yeah, she was like the the thing.

Speaker 2 5:12

Yeah, I would think so for a couple years.

Speaker 1 5:13

They kind of come and go pretty quick, but yeah, she is the thing unless you're like a beyonce and you have kind of like this staying power because of or take.

Speaker 2 5:21

You know sure so, anyways, back to this. They create an ad that is inclusive from a diversity in, uh like, skin, skin tone color, as well as body size.

Old Navy and Abercrombie's Response

Speaker 1 5:33

Okay, okay, um so both Abba Krabi and old name, which goes back to like this idea that some people took that as a negative right, Not a negative, but like they're not being positive, body positive.

Speaker 2 5:45

Yeah, this is. What was negative about the ad is that you didn't include everybody. Yes, right, they wanted it to be inclusive. Okay, so I'm looking at Google Trends and I've just typed in American Eagle, abercrombie and Old Navy, and American Eagle over doubles Old Navy and triples the search volume for abercrombie well have has abercrombie and old navy gone up uh, abercrombie I mean barely old navy did a little bit for for like a couple days and then it's gone back to virtually about the same.

Speaker 2 6:17

Abercrombie barely went up. Oh, to be fair, though, old navy's was a lot more direct, like there was, theirs was much more focused, okay, okay, but I also, something that was also really interesting was duncan donut. Duncan donuts, they, they did the inverse and they like double down on what american eagle did like on with a hot dude, yeah like, like I don't know who the guy is. I think he's some sort of tiktok dude he looks very gen z, he's very handsome.

Speaker 1 6:40

Yeah, gen z handsome, looks like a model has the has the alpaca fluffy hair yeah you know, and they, they double down on genetic, like his genetics.

Speaker 2 6:50

And being the king of summer and it like alluded to a specific drink, so now dunkin donuts, like there, let's, let's see. Actually, if I get rid of it's hard to. If I remove, let me remove everybody and just look at dunkin donuts, because sometimes when you have like a ton of search volume and somebody else has smaller volume, it the reason, the reason why I like talking about this is because not so much to analyze the Sidney Sweeney ad and you know going down all the meta on that.

Speaker 1 7:20

This is the problem with like trying to chase trends. Okay, what is it? You're always too late if you're chasing trends, if you're always trying to hop in on a trend like the Old Navy, even if you're trying to take the other angle or whatever it is that you're trying to do, it's just like once the trend is lifted.

Speaker 1 7:41

And it's never going to be as good as what the original person did you got to come up with your own unique thing, and I don't want to. I also don't want to like lose sight of the fact that like there's a good chance that old navy and america or abercrombie didn't hit off great because they didn't hire a sydney sweeney, like you know. I mean, the part of this has like part of this is the sydney sweeney effect, so an influencer effect, totally like a recognizable face that everyone knows doing something that was supposed to be perceived, at least by some people, as funny or you know yeah, others controversial or cheeky yeah, it'd be the better way of saying that.

Speaker 2 8:19

But well, here's, I think, an interesting thing, and this conversation can get a little risque, so let's's just like, let's, let's, let's put that out there, right, right. So, american Eagle, abercrombie, hollister, back in, like the early two thousands, they were the it brands for clothing, especially for, like, younger high school college teenagers. Okay, that's a fact. 2005, 2006 that is what my wardrobe, or at least what my mom wishes my wardrobe was littered with yeah okay, my sisters, that's where they shopped.

Speaker 2 8:53

And then, over the years, abercrombie has become nothing. So what happens with a lot of these brands is you have a brand who takes off, um, and they dive into like a very specific niche group. So, for example, abercrombie, american Eagle, hollister, it's kids, it's good looking kids Like, that's just how it is. That's not me being creepy, that's what they went after.

Speaker 2 9:15

Like, if you look at Abercrombie's marketing, it was like I remember going into Las Vegas, the Abercrombie in Las Vegas, and there was like teenagers, shirtless out front of their store and people taking pictures with them, like guys with six packs taking pictures. My wife worked at abacrabi same thing. There was always a guy model, shirtless, and people were taking pictures like it's just, it's what their niche was. And then what did they do? As they got so big, they started to market to everybody oh, let's get kids, let's get adults, let's get, let's go for everybody. And what ended up happening to those guys? Like, like you said, nobody's really heard of them for for a while. Like they've kind of been done for the last 10 years and they might have been part of a cyclical thing too.

Speaker 2 10:04

Let's look at like Lululemon Okay, Lululemon, same thing. How did they get started? They got started with yoga moms.

Speaker 1 10:11

Yes, but there's a I don't know if a lot of people know what the CEO said talking about what you're talking about.

Speaker 2 10:18

What are?

Speaker 1 10:19

you.

Speaker 2 10:20

Wait, what am I talking about?

Speaker 1 10:21

Well, the CEO of Lululemon basically said there were certain kinds of body types that he did not want Totally. Yeah, but then At the beginning stages of Lululemon.

Speaker 2 10:31

But then Lululemon all of a sudden starts creating product. For who? Everyone?

Speaker 1 10:36

Men Everyone.

Brand Evolution and Inclusivity Challenges

Speaker 2 10:38

Women All sizes. Right, they start to become what the world deems as inclusive. But now is Lululemon in the discussion for the top leading athletic wear brand anymore, I mean anecdotally. Let's look at data. When was the last time you shopped at Lululemon?

Speaker 1 11:00

10 years ago.

Speaker 2 11:02

Yeah, I haven't bought something for Lululemon in forever viory right fiore is the top dog you've got, like the roans you've got a lot of people have entered into the space, like al yeah alo, but but those they've kind of gone after.

Speaker 2 11:18

So the the point I'm just trying to make right now is there is this cycle in brand behavior where you win big by going after small groups we call it just niching down and what happens is you start, brands start to feel like they're tapping out of what is deemed as their total addressable market, and so they go bigger and say, oh well, we used to just only make men's clothes, now let's make women's clothes, let's be more inclusive.

Speaker 2 11:43

Oh, we used to only make small through's clothes, now let's make women's clothes, let's be more inclusive. Oh, we, we used to only make small through extra large, now let's make extra small through triple XL, let's be more inclusive. Right, so there's this conversation about inclusivity, but oftentimes what happens from a brand perspective and from a marketing perspective okay, once, once again, I'm saying I'm not taking a stance on an inclusive versus exclusive approach to looking at life, I'm just saying from a marketing perspective there is a big trend that once a brand starts to go more inclusive from a sizing perspective and from not even from sizing talking to anyone and everyone, Well, I think, look, I think the point that people start to forget about them.

Speaker 1 12:26

Yeah, I think the point you're trying to make is like Should a motherhood brand talk to fathers too?

Speaker 2 12:31

Well, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 12:33

Right, it's exclusive, if you're not like.

Speaker 2 12:34

Involving yeah, let's take race.

Speaker 1 12:38

Let's take size out of it, right? Yeah, I like this. If you sell kids clothes and you're only advertising to dads like are you going to do as well as if you're talking to moms, the trends would say no.

Speaker 1 12:52

I mean, I just think it's obvious. No, of course you're not. And why is that? It's because dads don't even buy it. So a lot of times what happens is people try talking to people who have no interest in even buying your kind of product. Like it's okay to talk to people and be quote inclusive but at the same time, like you don't have to talk to everyone because not everyone's interested in you And's your brand ethos. Like what are you actually a part of? Like that doesn't mean you dislike or don't like certain people or whatever, but um and like. So obviously we're not talking about excluding people on terms of like. You should never exclude based off of, you know, things like race.

Speaker 1 13:29

But in marketing, you should definitely exclude based off of things like age age and gender gender skills you know personal preferences so yes, as a marketer, you're always going to exclude period yes, it's just yeah and you can do.

Speaker 1 13:46

And now you can get to the point where you're a nike and you can do more things across, like cause Nike's just huge right. Like there's such a big company that they can do women's and men's and they can do basketball and track and like everything underneath this, like athletic umbrella. But guess what? Like they also have cut things out. They cut out their golf equipment Totally and they only do golf apparel. Yeah, because, well, they've cut out their golf equipment Totally and they only do golf apparel, yeah.

Speaker 2 14:15

Because, well, they've cut out a lot of. It's not just golf equipment, they've cut out hard goods.

Speaker 1 14:19

So they cut out hard goods.

Speaker 2 14:21

Yeah.

Speaker 1 14:23

Because it became Like there's too much going on.

Speaker 2 14:26

They are an apparel shoe company.

Speaker 1 14:28

Right. So is that being? Is that exclusive?

Speaker 2 14:34

Yeah. Is that them being wrong from a world standard because they're not including everything?

Speaker 1 14:42

And the answer is, of course, no. So if you're a brand, I think that the point is is like niching can feel like you're being mean.

Speaker 2 14:51

And also feel like you're putting yourself into a box.

Speaker 1 14:53

And putting yourself into a box, but your niche is going to. They say the riches are in the niches right.

Speaker 1 15:00

It's just much easier to talk to people when you know who you're talking to Totally. So we did an audit for a gifting store and they do custom gifting for families. Like, oh, if you're a father, like we'll help curate this gift for your wife or for your kids, or mothers to fathers and kids, and there's just like all this like cross stuff, tons of skews. It was just like, but who are you talking to exactly? Are we talking to moms? Are we talking to dads? Are we talking to both? Are we? And like, why are we even talking to dads when, like, dads don't even make these decisions? Really?

Speaker 2 15:35

yeah, and just because you don't talk to them doesn't mean you're like why are you spending half? You're excluding them, right, yeah, why are?

Speaker 1 15:40

you spending half your budget talking to dads? Yeah, like they're not. Like they might be efficient from a like a monetary, but not scalable, yeah, so why are we spending 50 of our money talking to dads when, like, you're not going to grow? Talking to dads like it's going to be with women, because that's, you can talk to them, directly to them, and guess what a lot of women will nudge the dad into buying, sure, so talk to who your audience actually is and what what makes sense, but don't just like blanket, throw out there like, oh, like we're just gonna have yeah, say everyone on our because I think everyone obviously would want that yeah

Speaker 2 16:20

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The Hubs Life Cautionary Tale

Speaker 2 17:21

The other thing that I think that we haven't the direction we haven't gone down on the problem with niching and then expanding that we've seen a lot of brands really fall into is have you heard of the? There's a TikToker. His account's name is Hubs Life. Have you heard of this guy, hubs Life? Have you guys heard of Hubs Life before? No, no, so Hubs Life. Look him up. H-u-b-s dot life. He is this guy who built an entire TikTok audience around the de-glamorization of, like the hustle and bustle of entrepreneurship. So a lot of people on TikTok will show their lives and how they're entrepreneurs. And I'm getting up at 4am and I'm da-da-da-da-da-da.

Speaker 1 18:00

I'm so disciplined.

Speaker 2 18:01

Yeah, he was one of the first people to be like hey, I have a nine to five, I wake up and I clock in at nine o'clock.

Speaker 1 18:09

Is he the guy that does like the day in the life? Yeah?

Speaker 2 18:12

He does day in the life. He's like I take a 30 minute lunch, I walk to it, I get back in my Hyundai Sonata, I work from one to five, I cook dinner with my wife, I take my dog on a walk, and it was just that. And he built this awesome, awesome audience like huge, huge audience. Okay, and it was really cool because at the time you had not seen a lot of people glamorizing the nine to five. Everyone was glamorizing entrepreneurship, right, and owning your own business on TikTok.

Speaker 2 18:38

So he's this guy who just creates this audience of people who are like, oh my gosh, this is so refreshing. I mean, most people are not entrepreneurs, most people actually fit the nine to five role, but no one was creating content for him. So this guy creates this day in life content, super relatable, getting tons of fans, and guess what happens? He starts to make enough money where he doesn't need his nine to five job anymore. So he turns around, tells everybody he's kind of quitting his job, but doesn't really say he's like about to become an entrepreneur. And he becomes an entrepreneur. And he becomes an entrepreneur and starts creating content around the day in the life of an entrepreneur, thinking that, oh my gosh, I just and then he just loses audience loses everything Like he.

Speaker 2 19:28

he is more talked about. I mean now this is. This is getting to be a little bit more older news Like this is probably about two months ago that this happened.

Speaker 2 19:35

It got so bad that this guy had to turn off his comments so he doesn't put comments on, because people just trash him. Like there has been the biggest boycott against this guy because he just what happened was he changed and flipped the script on an audience. So we have this kind of thought process where it's like, okay, hey, if you start to become more inclusive to say, hey, my, my product is for everybody, my brand is for everybody, you have the chance of getting completely lost. But on the flip side, if you go from one niche to something completely different, you have the chance to completely lose something you have already built. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1 20:19

Yeah, yeah, of course it does.

Speaker 2 20:22

Are you looking him up right now?

Speaker 1 20:23

Yeah, we've seen that. Yeah, he, uh, there's a Rolling Stone article about him.

Speaker 2 20:26

Yeah, I mean every news article has picked this up Like he.

Speaker 2 20:30

I feel bad for the guy Cause the guy got absolutely worked over like people were just absolutely throttling him that's funny and creating I mean videos that are getting hundreds of thousands and millions of views on, like this is where hub's life went wrong. Right, feel super bad for the guy because, like he built something so cool that he's like I don't have to work anymore. Who wouldn't take that? You know, like all I get to do is be a content creator and edit videos, like and make double or triple what I was making, but what was the like?

Speaker 1 21:00

yeah, that's kind of funny because nobody and this is one of the things where hiring a consultant can be beneficial for people you know I know, I know everyone wants to trash on consultants. Sure, but know a good marketing consultant would have said hang on a second dude.

Speaker 2 21:15

maybe don't quit it Like hey man like your, your whole audience, your whole stick is built around the fact that you are like them.

Speaker 1 21:23

Yeah, you are like a man of the people.

Speaker 2 21:25

Yeah, the second you go, quote entrepreneur you are no longer a man of the people.

Speaker 1 21:30

You're no longer part of that. You know, like you're no longer glamorizing like the everyday man, totally like you're running a huge risk by saying hey, thanks everyone, I'm an entrepreneur now, and then everyone's like wait a second, I'm not following you for that. Yeah, I'm following you to do your nine to five yeah, totally make me feel good about myself or make me feel good about nine to five. I can't. Whatever the reason like that's the ethos and he was being you could say he's being exclusive to people who don't have nine to fives.

Niching Down vs Selling Out

Speaker 2 21:59

Yeah. So I mean, listen, let's, let's, as we wrap things up, like the two thoughts I have, I think that there has been this movement, um, that social, social media has put into the atmosphere that brands need to be inclusive and if they are not inclusive, they're, therefore they are bad. And there are some brands that fall to the mob, uh, the influence, you know, the social media mob and, um, they sure they take a stand, um and they become more inclusive, but there's a huge, huge risk that it hurts your marketing and can hurt your business, right?

Speaker 1 22:38

There's examples of this using pop culture. So like if you take rap, especially rap from the 80s and 90s, and like, let's like go down back to like NWA.

Speaker 2 22:49

Yeah.

Speaker 1 22:49

Like NWA and Ice Cube and all these guys like they weren't writing songs to appeal to white people. Yeah, right, they were writing songs specifically for their peers. Yeah, their group, sure.

Speaker 2 23:03

Their communities, the black.

Speaker 1 23:04

American. Yeah, that could relate to their experiences. Yeah, and they didn't, and they never stopped right. They used their specific kind of verbiage and language and they didn't bend it all just to appeal to the bigger audience, which would have been the white audience in America right. But, over time they became mainstream, but they didn't really change who they were right Like. They stayed pretty consistent Like Snoop Dogg. I think Snoop Dogg's kind of gone through more of like an adult evolution, like as he's gotten older.

Speaker 2 23:42

Yeah.

Speaker 1 23:42

But he's still Snoop Dogg, yeah, right. So I think sometimes you can look at artists and say, hey, like did Snoop sell out? And just like sell out to talk into his community and being who he was and where he's from, and I don't think I would say I don't think he has. He just became successful. But they stayed niche, right. And look how big that genre got. Yeah, like Kendrick Lamar isn't making music for me, right?

Speaker 1 24:08

I think that's pretty obvious If you look at me you know he's not for me, yeah, but I hear Kendrick Lamar all the time, totally.

Speaker 2 24:17

We'll say the same thing with Taylor Swift, right? Taylor Swift is not creating music for you yet.

Speaker 1 24:21

Taylor. Swift is making music for females yeah, usually younger Scooming younger females Going through emotions yeah, through heartbreaks and romance and stuff. That's who she talks to. She's not talking to a 35 year old dad of three yeah so she's not excluding me. Yeah, but like you could say, well, why don't you make?

Speaker 2 24:44

if she isn't it, yeah, yeah, I I make a song about me. I make a song about good dads, taylor I think there's probably somebody could clip this podcast and make us seem like we're yeah terribly, like you know, in social media's world, racist. What by what we're saying?

Speaker 2 24:58

or or, or sexist sexist or or not body positive, or whatever. The point we're just trying to make is often you have to be very careful, um, when it comes to the the term inclusivity in your marketing strategies, because sometimes, and most times, it's very, very important to niche down to a specific type of person right, the granola mom who only consumes natural products Like that's a niche to somebody who might want to buy. You know, we've worked with people who sell breast milk jewelry. Right, like that's the type of person who's buying those kinds of things.

Speaker 1 25:41

Yeah.

Speaker 2 25:41

But does that exclude the mom who does formula, who can't breastfeed, you know who like? Yes, it does, but does that mean that she is not an inclusive person? No Right, it just means that she's is not an inclusive person.

Speaker 1 25:55

No Right.

Speaker 2 25:55

It just means that she's narrowed down something that somebody wants. And the most important thing in marketing actually isn't the messaging, it's the audience, who then you can tailor the messaging to.

Speaker 1 26:06

Yeah, it's product market fit.

Speaker 2 26:07

Yeah.

Speaker 1 26:08

And you got to make sure your message matches the market that your product fits in Exactly A hundred percent. Market that your product fits in Exactly 100%. That's all it is, yeah.

Speaker 2 26:18

So, at the end of the day, american Eagle, I give it a massive win. It's a massive win for what they did.

Speaker 1 26:27

It's a massive marketing win Whether it's a long-term stay.

Speaker 2 26:32

No idea.

Speaker 1 26:33

It's 28 days later. We'll find out.

Speaker 2 26:35

We'll keep giving updates on this, see, if there's a long-term stay. No idea, it's 28 days later. We'll find out. Yeah, we'll keep giving updates on this.

Speaker 1 26:37

There's a zombie outbreak from it yeah, like what?

Speaker 2 26:39

what? Yeah, in an intent, it was a great marketing, marketing decision. Keyword marketing decision because they targeted their old audience. That got them to where they once were. Yes, which were people who cared about hot people wearing their clothes yeah, if you're listening to this, I'm doing quotation marks and hot because obviously that is a relative term.

Speaker 1 27:03

And I don't have any American Eagle and I will probably never own American Eagle. Yeah, but they're not talking to me.

Speaker 2 27:12

Yeah nor me, and I hope everyone understands what we're trying to say here, right Like, these are marketing wins. We're not talking about being inclusive in life and how you treat other people.

Speaker 1 27:23

We're talking about just curating your message.

Speaker 2 27:25

Yeah, we're just talking about how you, if you want to succeed and get the right attention, narrowing things down is, strategically and historically, the best way to do so.

Marketing Wins and Audience Focus

Speaker 1 27:36

Yes, but it is hard. It is hard for certain kinds of brands because it's easy to get lost in the ambiguity of a certain audience.

Speaker 2 27:44

Yeah.

Speaker 1 27:46

Which, like American Eagle, there's a lot of ambiguity in that audience. Yeah, but what did they say? They were like hey, we're targeting young people, young people all love Sydney Sweeney now.

Speaker 2 27:59

Yeah, they care about that type of stuff a lot more, right you?

Speaker 1 28:01

know like she's the it thing that everyone's looking to, so let's go after her, sure. That's kind of all they did.

Speaker 2 28:09

Yeah, I agree, yeah, I agree, yeah, it's really not rocket science with that. No, niching is powerful. Like Mark said, there's riches in the niches. There are, yeah. So if you're feeling like you probably have a lot more time to lap up before you feel like you have to introduce a new category, fair enough.

Speaker 1 28:33

Yeah, usually people are more worried about expanding before they should.

Speaker 2 28:37

Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 1 28:40

It's usually a message issue.

Speaker 2 28:42

And not saying expansion is the wrong issue. You don't do that. But it's a lot harder to expand than it is to nab a more cam For sure, thank you guys.

Speaker 2 28:54

This was short, quick. Don't clip this inappropriately either. So I'm not saying that to you, nate, I'm saying that to the rest of anyone else who listens to this. All right, we'll see you guys next week. Thank you so much for listening to the Unstoppable Marketer podcast. Please go rate and subscribe the podcast, whether it's good or bad, we want to hear from you, because we always want to make this podcast better. If you want to get in touch with me or give me any direct feedback, please go follow me and get in touch with me. I am at the Trevor Crump on both Instagram and TikTok. Thank you, and we will see you next week.