Sometimes the bonds of family and the fabric of our identities need mending, a truth that Joe Beth know all too well. On this episode of Wandering Tree Podcast, we hear their powerful journey through adoption, suicide and addiction. The conversation leads up down a path which involves unraveling the deep emotional complexities that come with Joe courageously sharing his story, from the trauma of being adopted from Japan to the solace he sought in substances; all painting a picture of the isolation and rejection he felt as an adoptee and minority. Beth, with the wisdom only a mother's heart can hold, reveals her side of their shared path — the awakening to her son's unique needs and the crucial steps taken to navigate the turbulence of his crises.
This dialogue is more than just a recounting of past struggles; it's a beacon of hope for those entangled in similar battles. Joe and Beth's raw conversation emphasizes the transformative power of vulnerability and open communication, spotlighting the potential for healing within adoptive families. By sharing their experiences, they not only reinforce the significance of acknowledging adoption trauma but also celebrate the resilience found in facing these challenges head-on.
Website: UnravelingAdoption.com
IG: https://www.instagram.com/unravelingadoption/
FB: https://www.facebook.com/UnravelingAdoption/
988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline
The 988 Lifeline provides 24/7, free and confidential support for people in distress, prevention and crisis resources for you or your loved ones, and best practices for professionals in the United States.
Find your people, cherish your people and love your people.
#adoptee #adoptees #adopteevoices #adopteestories #adopteestrong #adoptionreality #adopteejourney #adoption #wanderingtreeadoptee
Sometimes the bonds of family and the fabric of our identities need mending, a truth that Joe Beth know all too well. On this episode of Wandering Tree Podcast, we hear their powerful journey through adoption, suicide and addiction. The conversation leads up down a path which involves unraveling the deep emotional complexities that come with Joe courageously sharing his story, from the trauma of being adopted from Japan to the solace he sought in substances; all painting a picture of the isolation and rejection he felt as an adoptee and minority. Beth, with the wisdom only a mother's heart can hold, reveals her side of their shared path — the awakening to her son's unique needs and the crucial steps taken to navigate the turbulence of his crises.
This dialogue is more than just a recounting of past struggles; it's a beacon of hope for those entangled in similar battles. Joe and Beth's raw conversation emphasizes the transformative power of vulnerability and open communication, spotlighting the potential for healing within adoptive families. By sharing their experiences, they not only reinforce the significance of acknowledging adoption trauma but also celebrate the resilience found in facing these challenges head-on.
Website: UnravelingAdoption.com
IG: https://www.instagram.com/unravelingadoption/
FB: https://www.facebook.com/UnravelingAdoption/
988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline
The 988 Lifeline provides 24/7, free and confidential support for people in distress, prevention and crisis resources for you or your loved ones, and best practices for professionals in the United States.
Find your people, cherish your people and love your people.
#adoptee #adoptees #adopteevoices #adopteestories #adopteestrong #adoptionreality #adopteejourney #adoption #wanderingtreeadoptee
And you will be okay. I know it seems so hard right now if you're in that space, but if you are listening to this right now and in a hard spot, my thoughts are to you. Anyone who's being hurt or struggling, I want you to know there's someone out there that is thinking about the hurt.
Speaker 2:Hello, this is your host, lisa Anne. Today's episode covers the sensitive topic of suicide and addiction. These discussions have the potential to create strong emotions and pervasive thoughts. If you are in any need of help, please consider calling the United States National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline at 988. They provide 24 by 7, free and confidential support for people in distress, provide preventative and crisis resources for you and your loved ones. If you are listening outside of the United States and need help, please consider calling your local emergency professionals. Thank you so much for your support and the time that you will take today to listen to this very important episode between our guests, bethan and her son, joe. Thank you again. Welcome to Wandering Tree Podcast. I am your host, lisa Ann. We are an experienced-based show focused on sharing the journey of adoption, identity, life search and reunion. Let's begin today's conversation with our guests of honor, joey Nakao and Beth Syverson. Welcome you two, hi thank you.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's going to be quite the episode. I'm excited about this in a lot of different ways, and I just want to express my gratitude for having both of you here and joy for having you here. My listeners know how old I am, and so I always appreciate when I can pull in another generation, and I do want to share with you. After we were done talking in our prep call, I just felt such a connection and I was just so thankful that we were able to have that time together, so I'm looking forward to today's time as well.
Speaker 1:Thank you, yeah, me too.
Speaker 2:Well, with that said, what I'd like to do is turn it over to you and, in your words, share with us a little bit about your adoption journey.
Speaker 1:Okay, I guess from the start, which is I was seven months old when my adoptive parents I don't really know the lingo, I'm not too into the lingo, but my adoptive parents came to Japan when I was seven months old and that they got me from like a nursing home sort of thing, because my birth parents were actually like 16, I like really young. So that that's why I was giving up for adoption, because we assumed that they couldn't take care of me. And then when my adoptive parents got me, brought me back to California, I grew up really in a really nice environment. It's just until later on that I realized that adoption has affected me severely and gave me trauma and made me realize that others is a thing I didn't realize, like being other, and not just being adopted, but also a minority really doesn't click well with people for some reason, and it showed me the cruelness of the world but also gave me the opposite, which I can be the light in someone's darkness. That's how I see it.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that, I love that thought process, and I know that that's been a really big journey for you to get there and I do want to kind of just let everyone know it has not been roses for you and that's my term right and you've really experienced a side of two things you just mentioned adoption and minority that others may or may not have experienced, but it had a really strong impact on you in your formative years. And do you want to just shed a little bit of light on some of the struggles that you had in those formative years and your perspective on them please?
Speaker 1:Yes of course.
Speaker 1:So my biggest kind of like I guess it's a vice is substance abuse. I am still struggling a little bit with nicotine and alcohol, but what I gravitated toward it was because I felt safe when I'm on substances like psychedelics or marijuana. Those are such a psychoactive chemical that makes you feel for me at least at peace and wanted, even not from others, but by myself. I never felt wanted by myself. I never, never felt accepted for myself. So when I experienced substances it gave me that hit that I needed or that hug that I explained before, but it's not like it was sufficient for a long period of time.
Speaker 1:After a while it got bad and kind of ruined my life for a little bit. And then also bullying was a thing in high school, really bad because I lived in a majority white populated area and you don't see that many minorities. I mean, yes, there's minorities, but compared to the white population it's down here in orange county I can say that is astonishing. And bullying. Substance abuse I'm trying to think the adoption and was a big key part for me to understand a lot of this, because it all stemmed from that, the adoption and the traumas that I went through from that.
Speaker 2:I would. I would wonder too if you would resonate with that trauma and who you were trying to be in your own skin was enough of a challenge of life. And then you added on the bullying component. And you know you did find a coping mechanism and you chose, you know, drugs and other substances, and you're not alone, and that's, I think, important for adoptees to hear as well. It is a very common escape mechanism for adoptees to find something to help us cope through a lot of those periods of our life, and so thank you so much for sharing that as well, because that can be.
Speaker 1:You know that can be hard.
Speaker 2:It can absolutely be hard to bury your soul that way. Well, we have with us your mom, beth, and I would like, beth, for you to kind of just dive in a little bit here and share with the listeners. You know kind of where you were starting to recognize some of the challenges of an adoptee and how that impacted you from a parenting perspective as well and how you were trying to nurture your child.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you for the opportunity and I'm just super proud of Joe for being able to speak his truth and to be so honest and I'm totally in support of him and his path. And I'm on my own path over here trying to get myself pulled together too. And you know, I thought everything was really great until adolescence. And you know, at 15, joey tried to kill himself and just everything just flipped and nothing has been the same since then. But before that point I thought we did a pretty good job and I thought he was an amazing kid and he was doing so great in baseball and music and all sorts of wonderful things. And it was very startling for me.
Speaker 3:When visiting him in that first psych hospital I realized whoa, I didn't really realize it was the adoption at that moment in time, but I realized there's a whole lot of pain here I didn't understand. So looking back, I did a whole bunch of stuff kind of wrong, incorrectly, not enough that I would have done differently had I known what I know now. But it took me a little while with adoption therapist and being in the adoption community, reading the primal wound, things like that. That helped me understand adoption trauma and how I can either help my son work through it and work through whatever pain I caused, or I can make things worse. So I try the best I can to help him find resources and acknowledge the pain he's in and do whatever I can to try to make up for the mistakes I made.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I know that's very hard for you to say, and I know it's going to be hard for listeners to hear as well. Parenting is difficult, regardless of the situation. And Joe's nodding his head yes, and so that's. You know, that's an affirmation that mistakes get made all the time. I can tell you I just made one a couple of days ago and I'm like, oh, what a bonehead move and I mean it was just like literally that type of a thing, you know I just have one thing to add.
Speaker 1:Yes, you made mistakes, mom, but I want you to know, in this, like space, that I don't take them personally. Like you are human, you made mistakes. I'm probably gonna make mistakes when I have kids, like I learned from you. But I still will make mistakes. It's just part of life and I want you to understand that. Still, you're loved by me, no matter what.
Speaker 3:Oh, Joe, you're the best. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Well, I didn't want to cry, but that is just so, so precious and I appreciate hearing that and being part of that exchange. I do want to take a couple steps back, if you don't mind. So, beth, you did divulge in your dialogue that, joe, you attempted suicide and you and I talked about that pretty significantly in our prep, and so this is a major trigger warning, because I know we're going to go there and I want people to know that that we're not. We're not in a space where we want to hide the struggle, right.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:It was a really tough decision for you to try to end your life and you and I spoke about that and I have thought about that probably every moment since we had our prep conversation, had our prep conversation, and so I just want to give you a couple of moments to tell our adoptee community that may be struggling, you know kind of the things that were going through your mind and, if there's any, you know things that you would suggest for them to think about before they take that step.
Speaker 1:Oh, 100% yes. I don't know how many years ago, maybe five years ago was the first attempt. I was going through a lot with the drugs and then, as soon as I touched psychedelics, it kind of changed my chemistry in my brain, which it does, showing me the other side. It gave me this awareness that there's life after. For me it's not the all-knowing answer, but for me it gave me the sense of, yes, there's life after death. And I took it the wrong way. I wanted to be on the other side rather than live my own life. That's the scary thing about psychedelics when you don't take them as you are supposed to quote unquote, because there's ways that you can do it safely. I did. That's why I spiraled into this very dark space. It seemed dark to outsiders, I think, but in my head it was so peaceful because I wanted to just be on the other side and I was for a long time on the drugs, until that day where I tried to take my own life.
Speaker 1:That's when I realized that I don't like pain. Pain is what stopped me from succeeding in dying. That pain got me out of it, told me that my body was like yes, this isn't what it's supposed to be, because I thought it was all rainbows and butterflies basically on the other side. But you have to go through pain to get through that. That's what I learned, and pain is not what I love, uh, but what I guess I can tell others that are going through the same emotions if they're going through that like similar situation, or if they're just suicidal and or depressed.
Speaker 1:My biggest like thing to say is go talk to someone if you can. If you, if you have the opportunity to talk to someone, take the opportunity. I know it's hard, but you can't bring yourself out of that if you're that low. Someone else has to or will try if they want to, because it's nearly impossible for me. My subjective like I guess it's really difficult to get out of that spiral by yourself and ask for help. People want to help. They don't want to see you die unless it's most likely. People want to help. That's how they get joy out of themselves. So it may be out of narcissism or it could be out of true like wanting to help, but the main thing is just ask for that help, because you won't get it if you don't ask.
Speaker 2:I would agree with that, and I wonder too sometimes if there is this barrier of asking for help from those we love. Did you kind of experience that as well, joe?
Speaker 1:Yes, I fortunately was that wall or that. Like I guess that wall was broken because my parents dove deep into like researching what was going on with me and they kind of chipped away at the wall for me, so they gave me the space to come to them. That's very fortunate for me. Other people may not have that, but yes, there's definitely a wall when you don't want to hurt others by telling you're hurt because you think that's going to hurt them. But no, there's definitely a wall when you don't want to hurt others by telling you're hurt because you think that's going to hurt them. But no, they want to help. And it's a difficult place when you feel like you can't ask for help. That's a very dark place.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would agree. I'm going to insert here a little bit of information. There is a national suicide hotline, it's 988. That's going to be in my show notes and I would just highly advocate for anybody that's hurting that's a place to start. They can help you get to all of the next steps and it's intended to be exactly what you just said. They want to help, they are trained to help.
Speaker 2:They are not your parents, they're not your close friends, and so that boundary that you may have built up is different, and you know, I think that there's some commonality though, regardless of how you choose to deal with your trauma, through psychedelics or through you know this path of attempted suicide. I have been openly speaking this year about how, for myself, after I found out my biological beginnings, it was extremely difficult for a good two year period. I call it the abyss, and I'm working my way out of the abyss. It's not perfect and you know I just heard your mom say a few minutes ago she's working on her as well. So there's a lot of work to be done and there's no shame in it, and I love the fact that we're here talking about it so openly.
Speaker 1:Yes, and that's the thing. There's a stigma around this topic and it's very unfortunate. But that's what we're doing and working on is to get that word out there and know that it's not shameful to be talking about this. It's actually helpful to get it out into the world.
Speaker 2:you're almost like releasing it with your voice yeah, I am so appreciative that we're here today again to talk about this. You had a tipping point. You said you've made more than one attempt and one was too painful, one was not, not. And then you guys were, you know, in a hospital and, beth, this is where I know you had your aha moment, and could you kind of walk us a little bit through what that meant for you as a parent looking at your child that you've been nurturing? What avenues would you give other parents to also, you know, consider in this conversation?
Speaker 3:would you give other parents to also, you know, consider in this conversation. Yeah, it's really tough for adoptive parents to hit that wall and go crap. I thought I was doing a good thing, I thought the adoption was wonderful. I mean, that's what we've been told, that's what the societal you know trope is oh look, that's so beautiful. And you know trope is oh look, that's so beautiful.
Speaker 3:And obviously, well, maybe not obviously, but for me I went into this thinking, oh, I just want to be a great mom, I really want to help this child who doesn't have a parent, and I was also infertile, so it's very complicated. But to realize that, oh no, it just shatters your world and a lot of adoptive parents can't even go there, they just stay. Oh, I can't even go near that. It's so painful to realize. So I'm actually trying to help people with much younger kids try to realize this stuff a lot sooner. I think that would have been better than waiting till my kid was in crisis. I think that would have been better than waiting till my kid was in crisis. But the work that needed to be done that I'm still doing is inside my own self.
Speaker 3:Well, at first I did try to fix Joey. He didn't like that too much and it didn't work very well. But I chased him around for a while. But once I got talking to the adoption therapist and started, really, I started listening to Adoptees On. I found your podcast, lisa, and eventually reading all the books, doing all the things, and just I'm like, okay, all right, my kid's in crisis. I have no choice. There's no one more desperate to learn than a mother with a kid in crisis. So I'm like, okay, just tell me what I need to know. And so I did, and I'm very glad I did, because joy and I are still together, he's still alive and he is still in communication with me and we are both just kind of on this journey together and it feels a little bit like, oh, I don't know, we're both meant to be together or I don't know it's them both meant to be together or I don't know. It's a weird feeling, but I'm just trying to work on myself and actually also trying to help other families too.
Speaker 2:Well, I do like the conversation where you're tackling working with adoptee parents, with younger children that type of support mechanism, education and resource. It is so crucial. I think about that very regularly as well. In terms of my journey. If my parents had had maybe a more solid support mechanism, things would have been different for them and for me them things would have been different for them and for me. Yeah, I just think that is one of the areas where we have had the largest fail. If we were to line up all the adoption fails through all of the generations and centuries of adoption, then that would be one of them. Just lack of support, yeah the post-adoption support.
Speaker 3:They're like, okay, here you go, have fun. And and, yeah, don't give you any information or resources. I personally think that both the parents and the child should get therapy for life. You know, as part of the adoption package, package deal, here you go, yeah why don't you do that society?
Speaker 1:it's? It's very confusing to me on like why people don't understand because it's like a surface thing like they. Always confusing to me on like why people don't understand because it's like a surface thing, like they always want to be on the surface, like the society, I guess. And it's unfortunate, but I guess our word helps break that first layer. And well, that's how things happen. You have to speak up yeah yeah and I was.
Speaker 2:I agree, we're at the surface layer, we are absolutely at layer one and we have to keep diving deep, and I love that thought process as well. So you were going to, you were going to add a little bit more, joe, yes.
Speaker 1:Just going to my mom's point on, like we're continuously on a journey together, work continuously on a journey together, I I was like when I kind of came out of the chaos I finally realized I actually have a better relationship with my mom than I ever did before. And that's kind of what happens when you work and be honest, like truly honest, that you can have like this, no stress, no animosity, like relationship. I'm fortunate to have that with my mother, but I think communication and honest communication really helps, even with your therapist probably.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, what's really interesting about that is finding the safe place. And so what do you both believe may have prevented it from being a safe place prior to crisis? And the reason I ask that is, I'm struggling with a little bit of that in my own world, where I know I have things I need to communicate, but no matter whom I'm talking to or what I'm talking about, it's still not quite safe enough for me. Yeah Right.
Speaker 1:Actually, that's a great question. I haven't even thought about that. My mom may have a point, I just I have. I can think about it, but right now it just comes to mind actually.
Speaker 3:I can think of one thing. I did that shut a door. That didn't help. When Joey was seven or eight or so, he said, mom, we were in the car. He said, mom, I'm really sad because I feel like my mom threw me away and I know what I would say now. But back then I said oh, honey, oh, no, no, no, she didn't throw you away, she loved you and we loved you. It's all good and don't worry, don't be sad. So, oh, it just hurts, hurts to say that out loud that I did that.
Speaker 3:But what that taught joey is that, oh, I can't bring mom, my mom's not safe to talk about this part, this sadness I have inside me. It's not safe to talk to her because, look, it made her really sad and she's like paddling trying to fix it. And that's not what he needed. At that point he needed me to say, oh, that must be really sad man. What kind of support do you need around that? Or you want to talk about it, you know. But at that point I didn't understand and I didn't have the personal growth yet to be able to hold that with him. I just got kind of defensive and like, oh, but we're fine, we're good, we're fine, we're fine. I don't know if you remember that.
Speaker 1:Joey, yes, I actually do. I don't know if I was in a booster seat or something like that. I just remember sitting in the car expressing my emotions and feeling like I was so young. But I just remember feeling this emotion of like not safe, yeah, but safe at the same time, because you're my mother.
Speaker 1:But it's like this different type of safe, yeah, emotional the wall, wall that wall but I actually thought of a few ideas of why I couldn't be open on my side towards my parents is because the drugs obviously started prior to everything kind of going down and that's a big thing with, I guess, society. That is a very bad thing to do is drugs and when I started I felt safe.
Speaker 1:I felt very safe with my community and the substances but, I didn't feel safe explaining that to my closest people because I felt like it was taboo or very not good to express. But now that I can learn and stuff and went through a lot of experiences that there is no wrong question and there's no right answer, yeah, it was tough because Joey started when he was about 13.
Speaker 3:So what 13 year old is going to say hey mom, what do you think about me? I mean, that's a tough situation for anybody.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. I do strongly believe, though, that adoptees really struggle with the communication of emotion at young ages, and if you do not feel safe at a young age, it's just going to perpetuate as you continue your journey. I'll speak to my own journey. It is very hard for me to articulate to people how hard it is to not know where you were for six months of your life. So I have what I call life gap, where there's six months from birth to adoption day that I really I haven't done enough research on, because I researched fatigue as well, right, and so that period of time, as a human means, I was on the earth, but there's nothing really documenting my existence, or what is documented isn't in my possession, and so it makes me sometimes just feel awkward, and the response I get when I share that out is well, you were a baby and you wouldn't remember it anyway well sure but, you.
Speaker 2:But you know that the person that that birthed you, picked you up, fed you, coddled you, bathed you, clothed you. You know who that is. You have pictures you're one month, you're two months, you're three, right, all that stuff. It's very hard to share that out and that kind of stuff, even at my age, and not get the wall and I'm like, okay, then I know you're not safe for me to talk to about these types of things yeah yeah, you find out pretty quickly, huh yes, I was literally gonna say it's like, you know, when you can't trust someone, uh, but that's unfortunate, because you should be able to trust people in this world.
Speaker 1:But that's just how the world is, and I don't want to be grim, but that's how I feel.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it makes it a challenge for adoptees and that's the struggle that I think we work through on a regular, regular, regular.
Speaker 3:Can.
Speaker 2:I put another regular in there Basis. Of course, and that's why we're talking today. Well, this journey has had some positive outcomes. You've talked about the kind of the reunification of your guys's relationship, but are there other positive outcomes that you guys would like to share today?
Speaker 3:Well, we made a podcast. It was Joe's idea to start the podcast. It used to be called Safe Home Podcast and now it's called Unraveling Adoption. Do you want to talk about it, Joe?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think the whole idea was I'll just be brief about it we were on the freeway driving. I was like why don't we start a podcast? We were listening to a podcast or something and I said we could probably help someone if we just talked about it just openly. And I guess my mom really liked the idea.
Speaker 1:And then we jumped on it and it became a thing and after the first episode it was like our goal is to help at least one person, one person. And we have succeeded. And I think we've well far succeeded past that and I'm just very, very fortunate to be able to express my self. I don't know know why I can do it, but it's easy for me. I know it's not easy for everyone, but I know this will help someone at one point. That's why I do it, because I'm all about the nurturing and love of people and that's what people need.
Speaker 3:Joey and I are both so mission driven. We just want to help other families, you know, not go through the horrible stuff that we've gone through. If we can catch them a little sooner or give them, maybe they are going through really tough stuff and they can go. Oh, we're not the only ones. Okay, okay and also.
Speaker 1:I believe in my belief you can't change anyone's like perspective until they go through it. So I think my point of view is that if someone goes through it like the hard, they're probably going to be more knowledgeable than people that didn't go through it. That's just my personal. Just don't go through it on purpose, just to learn more.
Speaker 3:Joey has a PhD in life skills here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's something to be said for that too. I don't need to go through what you went through in order to learn from you, and I've learned a lot from you in two conversations, so that's important that we understand. Learning someone else's life lesson doesn't mean we have to live through it, but we can find the warning signs early, or the red flags, if that's what you want to call them, whatever it is and then work towards finding the right tool for ourselves to overcome that. I love the fact that you guys started a podcast with the mission. Your why was just touch one person.
Speaker 2:I have said my why is that same reason more times than I can count right now, so I love that. But I also know for both of you, this experience brought out a little bit of your creativity and it allowed you both to elevate your creative side. So, joe, tell us kind of a little bit of what you're doing, not only speaking and talking. But how are you really? You know, elevating yourself and continuing to grow, and this is a journey that's going to go on for a while.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I agree with that and I personally believe it never ends Like. That. May sound really scary, but in the end you're gonna learn new stuff every single day. And what kind of came out of me was this passion for music, and music gave me an expression, that like a voice, like a bigger voice than because I can publish, I can get things out there, because I understand most of that stuff. But music gave me a canvas, and I didn't know I had that in me until after crisis. Actually, I remember this one. I just started listening to beats and rapping over them one of my attempts. But I was in Nevada in one of these lockdown facilities and I made a beat and rapped over it and I was like, huh, this is a good way to express myself and I was talking about very hard things and my truth. That's how I get it out, and it's not just get views or whatever. It's also to let myself get it out and hear it back and learn from it. And that's what my creative expression came out.
Speaker 2:And Beth yours came out in furthering your podcast. You guys started out with the podcast was Safe Home, if I remember correctly, and you've now transitioned to be a little bit more adoption centric for adoptive parents and focusing in on some really tough subjects, but you've also become a life coach, if I remember correctly. Do you want to tell us a little bit about kind of your path forward?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I had no idea I would do any of this stuff. I've been a musician my whole life, like a classical musician, music director type person. This is totally a new wheel house for me. But I realized I need to get some sort of training and certification because I want to help other parents and not just, like you know, casually, but I really want to help them. So I got certified through the Virginia Satir Global Network Coaching and Mentoring Program, which is amazing, and I love my coaching.
Speaker 3:It's opened up a whole new world for me and I think a lot of adoptive parents just want another person that goes yeah, yep, yep, I hear you really tough. And my coaching it doesn't have a whole lot of answers for people, but I guide people to help them find their own truth, their own answers. So it's been a really big blessing to have that and I've learned so much and I'm starting to do more advocacy work out in the community and so I'm feeling very driven to do this work. I'm still doing a little bit of music, but it's mostly this now. Well, as we come to a close today, mostly this now.
Speaker 2:Well, as we come to a close today, is there anything that either of the two of you would have liked me to have asked you?
Speaker 3:Do you want to tell about our book?
Speaker 1:You can do that. I just have one statement that I want to say. It's a closing out statement, if that's okay, but you go first.
Speaker 3:Oh no, you go first.
Speaker 3:Adoptees first oh, you want to go last. Okay, adoptees get to pick. Then, okay, we are writing a book. We're self-publishing it, so we'll just put it on Amazon, and it's going to be about adoptees and suicide, suicidality, and Joe and I are writing a portion of it, and I have about over a dozen other adoptees and birth parents and adoptive parents that have submitted poems and essays, and then it has a whole section of resources. So we hope it's going to be a really useful resource for parents and for therapists and teachers and anyone that cares about adoptees. So that's kind of our current project.
Speaker 2:What is your target publish date?
Speaker 3:I'm hoping by the end of April.
Speaker 2:All right. So that's you, beth, kind of talking a little bit about this book and what a great project, and I think there will be great benefits from it as well. Joe, what about you?
Speaker 1:I just want to state something that a lot of people don't hear from either their loved ones or close people, is that, no matter what, you're loved by someone in your life and you will be okay. I know it seems so hard right now if you're in that space, but if you are listening to this right now and in a hard spot, my thoughts are to you, anyone who's being hurt or struggling. I want you to know there's someone out there that is thinking about the hurt and you are loved. I'm sorry if you weren't nurtured. Nurturing is supposed to be easy for people, but it's not and it's very difficult and I understand a lot of people don't get nurturing. But love you can give endlessly. So that's all I have to say.
Speaker 2:Well, I think you've almost rendered me speechless. That is beautiful. I am so glad you guys have been on the show and I want to say thank you. You are welcome here any, any time, and what a blessing, what a blessing. And thank you for entering my world as well. It's been a pleasure, thank you. Thank you for having us. Thank you, we appreciate it. Thank you for listening to today's episode of Wandering Tree Podcast. Please rate, review and share this out so we can experience the lived adopting journey together. Want to be a guest on our show? Check us out at wanderingtreeadoptingcom.