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Ordinary People Extraordinary Things
104. The 4% Problem: How to Actually Live as a Christ Follower with Shawna Goldstein
Do you ever wonder if Sunday church attendance is enough to build lasting faith in your children? This question lies at the heart of my conversation with Shawna Goldstein, a passionate Bible teacher and mother of three teenage boys who's on a mission to equip parents for their most important role - discipling the next generation.
Shauna shares a startling statistic that changed her perspective: while about 60% of Americans identify as Christians, only 4% are living as disciples of Jesus. This gap isn't just concerning - it's reshaping how we understand what it means to raise children in faith. "We can't just shove that job off on the church," Shawna explains. "We are the main ones responsible for the spiritual growth of our kids.”
• Finding God in everyday moments makes faith real and accessible
• Bible teaching should be age-appropriate, interactive, and engaging
• Different parenting stages require different discipleship approaches
• Praying aloud over children models the importance of prayer
• Listening well to teens creates opportunities for deeper conversations
• Everyone has a role in discipling the next generation
Whether you're a parent seeking practical tools, a grandparent wondering how to influence the next generation, or someone without children looking to make disciples, this conversation offers wisdom for bringing faith beyond Sunday morning and into everyday life. Listen now to discover how small, consistent efforts can transform not just your family's spiritual journey, but potentially an entire generation.
See the complete interview ⬇️
https://youtu.be/ikAp8evters
Buy Shawna’s 2 Bible Studies on Amazon...
📚 Raise Them in the Word: the simple way to build a foundation of faith in your kids
📚 Guide Them to Jesus: experience His life, miracles, and teachings with your kids
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Thank you for joining me. I'm Nancy Brusher, your host of Ordinary People Extraordinary Things. Our guest today, shauna Goldstein, has so many nuggets, if you're a parent or if you're not, on how to disciple the younger generation. I love summer. It's a magical time of different rhythms or no rhythms, and different obligations, which frees up some time for me to tackle a few items that continually get pushed down to the bottom of the to-do list. If your to-do list includes gathering old home videos and converting them to digital, I have a special for you. Head over to generations2generationscom. That's generations. That is plural and two is T-O. Under the home video tab, you'll see a pop-up that says digitize your home videos, preserve your memories. Buy 10 video transfers, get the 11th on us. It's a great way to relive and preserve your favorite memories for years to come. Whatever your to-do list is this summer, I'm glad you're here to hear stories of faith and hope. Let's get started.
Speaker 1:Welcome to Ordinary People Extraordinary Things. I'm here with Shauna. Shauna, thanks for being on the podcast. Thanks for having me. I'm really excited to chat. And let's just jump in. What are three words or phrases to describe yourself?
Speaker 2:Okay, so the well they all kind of go together. But first things that come to mind are that I am energetic. I bring a lot of passion to what I do, a lot of energy, and I am a teacher of many things. I love teaching the Bible, but I also teach group fitness, so that's where that energy comes in. So, no matter what I'm teaching, I want to get people up and moving and I want it to be exciting and interactive. And then also I am a lover of nature, so I feed off of sunshine. I love to be outside, go on hikes. I have so many plants inside my house so I can bring the outside in when it's winter. So yeah, that's a little about me.
Speaker 1:Oh, awesome, and you live in Cincinnati? I do. Is there a lot of hiking and nature stuff to do there?
Speaker 2:There are a ton of trails. We live really close to a bike trail that goes all the way from Cincinnati up to Cleveland, and so we can walk and bike on that trail a lot. Or there's so many different wooded areas that we can go hiking. And I have a little Malshi who thinks that he's a big dog even though he's a little dog, so he loves to go on hikes too and he just tromps through the wilderness along with me, and usually I can grab one of my sons to come with me on a hike as well.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's such special time, isn't it? Yes, yeah, and how many kids do you have?
Speaker 2:So I have three boys. They are 17, 15, and 13. So we just hit the point where they are all teenagers.
Speaker 1:Wow, wow, that's awesome and we're talking about that's such a great segue. We're talking about pouring faith into our family, pouring faith into our kids, and you have a couple of different ways that you do this, so I'm excited to hear your expertise on this.
Speaker 2:Not only are you a mom, but then you also write curriculum this Not only are you a mom, but then you also write curriculum. Yes, yeah, and that's kind of been the in my spare time and then so I actually do adult discipleship at our local church. But God has just brought me on such a progression I feel like. You know, when I was in college I knew God had called me into ministry, but I didn't know what that would look like. So I just started okay, I'm going to take a lot of classes and he clearly spoke to me go work at a Christian camp for the summer. So first summer of college I went to work at a Christian camp and I just grew a love for teaching the Bible. So I started teaching the Bible to kids. But doing it in the camp setting made me have to be creative about how do I make this fun and interactive? How do I bring my energy? Because they're outside so many things are calling to them. They want to go play. How can I make the Bible fun and exciting? So I did that my summers during college and then I ended up teaching at a Christian school right out of college and was also getting to teach Bible and chapel and all of that. So I got a lot of experience teaching kids, and so then when I had my own kids, I was like all right, here, I'm ready to pour into them.
Speaker 2:I joined mom's group, start meeting other moms and realizing, oh, they don't feel as equipped as I do to teach their kids about Jesus. They want to, but they're coming to church and thinking, okay, well, I'm going to do what I can, so I'm going to bring them to church. Well, that's not everything. That's good, but that's not everything. So in an ideal world, we are the main ones responsible for the spiritual growth of our kids. Obviously, the Lord first. We need the Holy Spirit working on his heart. But we can't just shove that job off on the church. We need to do it as parents. So that's where the curriculum writing came in. And yes, I developed a couple of Bible studies to help moms teach their kids about the Bible.
Speaker 1:That's so good. And did that pull off what you were like, you were saying at camps and what you were doing and then being a mom as well?
Speaker 2:Yes, definitely. I mean God has weaved all of my experience into it. So my work at the camps, I realized, you know, things have to be interactive and involve movement. So the Bible studies that I have written, there's actually a timeline that takes kids through. The first one is an overview of the whole Bible, and so it's a timeline that takes kids through the Bible and there are hand motions that go with it. So the kids are saying like creation fall, flood, tower of Babel, and they're moving their hands with it as they learn it. And that actually even was developed. That timeline I wrote when I was teaching in the Christian school because our Bible curriculum was really boring and the kids hated Bible time and so I was like, okay, I'm going to come up with something. And so we slowly worked through an overview of the Bible and learned that timeline and then eventually it became part of my study. Oh that's so cool.
Speaker 1:What age group. You have two of them out. Can you give me the names of them? We will link them in the show notes, but could you give me the names of them? And then is there an age range that they're both made for?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so raise them in the word and guide them to Jesus.
Speaker 2:So raise them in the word is the first one, and it's an overview of the whole Bible and then guide them to Jesus.
Speaker 2:It focuses on the life of Jesus, the life, teaching, miracles of Jesus, because I realized my overview of scripture while it's awesome, big picture, there is only one week spent on the life of Jesus and it was like no, we need to dive into this more. So the way it's written actually allows a lot of flexibility with kids. I have had moms of two-year-olds start using it with their kiddos, moms of two-year-olds start using it with their kiddos. I think the sweet spot is probably about five to 12. But, like I said, you know, I've seen the younger do it and then, now that my kids are all above 12, I actually am going back through it with them and having them do the parts that I wrote for mom also. So each study is 12 weeks and there's a part written to mom, a part written to young kids and a part written to older kids, and so you can go through and pick and choose the pieces, and so now my kids are just getting built upon what they had known before, because now they're doing the adult part too.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's such a great idea. I really like that. I really like that. That's such a great idea, I really like that, I really like that. So you are saying that there's a thought sometimes of, okay, the church does their thing on Wednesday or Sunday or whatever, and then my child will learn to love God and we are strong components of going to church every Sunday and that that's just a huge, huge part of our lives. But there is that other aspect of it has to become a part of your daily and not just, okay, I'm here and then the rest of my life. Can you kind of share a little bit more about?
Speaker 2:that Definitely. Yeah, I read a statistic recently that completely challenged me, and it was that a bunch of Americans were polled and the survey results said that 60-some percent of Americans profess to be Christian. But when you boil it down and ask more specific questions, only about 4% of Americans are living as disciples of Jesus. So only about 4% of us is our faith actually impacting how we live from day to day? And so it's much more than just hey, I went to church one hour on a Sunday and, frankly, a lot of people just go once a month, or Christmas and Easter now too, whatever right. But Jesus came not just so we could punch a ticket and say, hey, I'm going to go to heaven someday. He came to give us life, to give it to the full now and to work in us and through us to help bring his kingdom here to earth. So our lives are supposed to be transformed every moment of every day. So when our kids are real little, we have much more time to interact with them. As they get older, we start to see them less and less, as I'm learning with my teenagers, who are always off to sports and friends and whatever. But we want to teach them what does it look like to walk with Jesus every moment of every day? What does it look like when we know that His Holy Spirit's inside of us? So so we can be praying constantly, we can be talking about him constantly and teaching? That is an interesting balance, because we don't want our kids to think that we're always nagging or, you know, always studious or something like that. Right, you want to teach them that this is fun, that walking with Jesus is the best life you could ever experience.
Speaker 2:So little tricks that I've done is you know, when they were real little it was okay. Where can you find God? So you know they I have boys. They like bugs. They'd be playing outside and they'd be like, look at this awesome bug I found. And I'm like isn't that amazing? Can you think of all the different bugs that God made? He is so creative, he's so awesome. Or you see a gorgeous sky and you say, oh, the heavens declare the glory of God, the skies proclaim the work of his hand. Isn't he the best artist there is, you know? So you just come up with ways to bring God into everything.
Speaker 2:And then I found also that we can pray and we can say we're praying, but our kids don't know we're praying unless we pray out loud. And then I found also that we can pray and we can say we're praying, but our kids don't know we're praying unless we pray out loud. And a lot of people aren't comfortable praying out loud. But start practicing in front of your kids, right, like we don't have to use the right words, we just want them to know to pray. So I had to start making a conscious effort. Okay, if I'm with my kids and I'm praying, I'm going to do it out loud, so they hear me doing it. So it's modeled.
Speaker 2:And then I asked some tough questions too, like when my kids get home from school, I'll ask things like what did you pray about today? And maybe their answer is nothing, but then that helps plant the seed of oh, I should be praying during my day, you know. So I'll maybe say well, when were you anxious when you were frustrated? Okay, when were you anxious when you were frustrated? Okay, you could have prayed then. Right, let's pray about it now. Or I'll just ask like where was, where'd you get a blessing today? Where was someone kind? Where did you see God? Just little questions that will help them to think of the Lord.
Speaker 1:Oh, those are good. I really like those. You said balance. What do you mean by that? What are? Yeah, could you kind of talk a little bit? That really struck me, that word that you were saying.
Speaker 2:So well, I just know I can lean towards studious, right, like, I'm actually working on my master's of theological studies right now. I have an undergrad in biblical literature, so I can want to study deep, right. My family doesn't always want to go there with me, and that's okay. That doesn't mean that they're any less mature. They're just wired differently, right? So I need to remember hey, they're not going to always want to know this awesome thing that I just learned about the history of Judaism and how it impacts this text, right, they're not always going to want to know that. But to really work on, okay, the relationship part.
Speaker 2:And I realized when my kids were little, I was doing a really good job about bringing God in when I would discipline them. But then I realized, ooh, are they only going to think I talk about God when I discipline him? I don't want that. I don't want them thinking God's the big bad guy in the sky who's just there when they do wrong, right. And so I realized there had to be that balance of I want to make sure I'm celebrating him way more than I'm talking about. Ooh, you know, when you lied, when you were selfish, that hurt God. You know he doesn't want that from us. So, yeah, I mean, all of our lives are about balance, right. If we could find the right balance, we would be doing wonderfully.
Speaker 1:That's good. And then you said 4% of people would actually line up with the Christian disciple. That's a low, low, low, low, low number. But for someone who's listening, can you just explain what you mean by disciple?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So what's so interesting is, if you look back at the gospels, jesus never said hey, pray a prayer and you'll go to heaven, said hey, pray a prayer and you'll go to heaven. He didn't say that. He said come, follow me over and over To the 12, he said it To others. He said it. He said follow me. And he said come be my disciple.
Speaker 2:And a disciple in that day isn't really a term we have an equivalent of today, but it was kind of like an apprentice. It was someone who followed their master, who learned what he did and started to model. After it started to do it too. And so I think part of why Christianity in America is dying because it really is dying it's because not enough of us allow our relationship with Jesus to impact our lives. We say, okay, yep, I've prayed the prayer and then I'm good, I can live. However, I want the rest of the week. Well, now, christianity doesn't appeal to others, or maybe they pray the prayer too, but then they're not living like it. But what we need to do is say, okay, I'm going to spend time with Jesus, I'm going to be his disciple, so I'll spend time with him, I'll start to become like him. I want to do the things that he did.
Speaker 2:What did Jesus model? Jesus definitely modeled loving others, but he modeled prayer. He drew away often to be with his father, and you can say Jesus was fully God, fully man. Why did he even need to pray Some of it? I think he was modeling it and modeling that connection that we need to have with the Lord. So time with God, time in community, time, studying scripture you know, jesus would have memorized so much of the Old Testament as a child, and so he models these things for us that we too should model in our lives. And so it is a daily walk. It's it's an active journey. It's a lifelong journey of being transformed to live and love like Jesus.
Speaker 1:That's good. I want to ask if you could share some I'm just going to say wisdom. You could maybe call it something else or something that you thought when you're looking back. I know you're not all the way done raising your kids, but as you're looking back, maybe a wisdom or something that you're like oh, I wish I had done that better. And I might ask if we could do it for some specific groups like the like zero to preschool. Is there? Is there something right? Because each time I and each time and this is the reason I'm kind of making it smaller is because I feel like each stage has its own hardships and its own wonderful things, and so someone who has a toddler is going to be facing things obviously completely different than a middle school, high schooler, right, right. So could you give us something, from baby to before kindergarten, of something I did great or I wish I had known this?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think reflecting back is always so positive, right, like we learn things, and to do it of a way of like not regret, but like, oh, if I had known right, and I see this perspective now. So to me I know some people love the baby stage that was not my sweet spot. So the baby to toddler age exhausted me and, as I said, the ages of my kids you'll understand. Like, at one point I had age zero, two and four. I mean I had my hands full and so it was very exhausting. So I think my big piece of advice would be stress less. I know a lot of people say things like enjoy the moment, don't waste it away. They'll grow so quick. But to moms in that phase, to dads in that phase, anyone, you don't really want to hear that. Then, right, like it is, it's tough. I'm going to completely empathize and say it is tough. So my biggest thing would be just stress less right.
Speaker 2:Some of the things that seem like huge deals really aren't Like. You know, if they potty train now or in six months, it's not the end of the world Like they're. They're not going to be an adult who's needing a diaper still. Right, odds are sorry. You know, there's some, some extreme cases. So, yeah, stress less and pray more and just love on those little kiddos, like that is a special calling. I think it's so easy when you're in that stage to feel like what am I doing in the scheme of things, especially if you become a stay at home parent. But regardless, it just feels like, wow, it takes so much time doing these mundane tasks. And I would encourage stress less, pray more, find God in everything. Because if we practice the presence of God with us in everything that we're doing, that we just, you know, praise him while we're doing dishes, that we thank him for his love as we're snuggling our kiddos, it will bring us so much more joy and contentment.
Speaker 1:That was good. What about for parents that have elementary?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that is the time that kids are most open to what we have to say. That is a great sweet spot for teaching. They are sponges. Even though my kids aren't elementary, this story just happened the other day and it really illustrates what I'm thinking of right now.
Speaker 2:So my 13 year old has been struggling to read his Bible at night, like we always encourage our kid, as we used to do it with them when they were younger, and now I've got them all on their own, like, hey, you should be reading your Bible and praying every night. But my 13 year old has really been struggling with it and he's like mom, can we read together? Like I, I'm just not getting it. You know can, can we do this together? But he asked late at night when I was tired and cranky, and I was like, no, buddy, not, not tonight.
Speaker 2:And of course then afterwards I was kicking myself right Like that was a golden opportunity. Why did I say no? So then I thought about it and I thought, okay, I know why I said no. I know because, like, once it's nine o'clock, I'm spent, like that is not my sweet spot of the day. So the next day I apologized to him and I said look, I do want to read with you, but we need to pick a different time because that time is not going to work well for me, and so my advice to those of elementary age is this is the sweet spot.
Speaker 2:This is where you can plant seeds that will bear fruit for eternity. This is where you can really start to build that relationship with your child and the Lord. But pick times that work for you. Think through when are you freshest, when are you best, and then be intentional about okay, so that's when we're going to do a little, and it can be little nuggets, right, so that's one of the things, too, about the studies that I wrote it literally. Some days it's like a one minute thing, some days it's like five minutes, but it's very easy, very doable, as opposed to like, hey, I need you for an hour to do this. You know like that's, that's not going to work. So so, yeah, just be intentional to start carving that in your kids.
Speaker 1:That was good. What about middle school?
Speaker 2:Okay, can I lump middle school and high school? Yep, all right. So as I think of middle school and high school, which is where I am now, the influence that you have on your kids really starts to diminish. They don't necessarily want as much time with you, but I heard once that if you listen well, they will want to tell you more. So I try, no matter what it is they're talking to me about. I may have no interest in it at all because it's their fantasy football or it's. You know this that whatever, I try to listen well and listen intentively, so that they want to talk to me about things. So that's one, and then a twofold piece of advice is praying over them every time they leave the house.
Speaker 2:So, it can be really quick. It doesn't have to be burdensome the house. So it can be really quick, it doesn't have to be burdensome. But you know if, if they're rushing out the door, I just do a quick like Lord, help them to know that your Holy spirit is inside them and help them to walk in your fruit, you know. And then when I have more time I actually pray for the different fruits and I say all right, holy spirit, fill them with love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Today.
Speaker 2:But it's just, it's a quick little prayer on the go, but it's just kind of that little blessing to send them out the door. It shows that you care because it's so easy as they start to get more independent. You know they're even catching rides with friends now and things like. I'm not always even taking them places, so it's so easy for them to just come and go and vanish and you show you care when you're. Hey, let me pray over you quick, let me give this little blessing, and out the door and I love you, you know.
Speaker 1:So you're actually doing that out loud with them. It's not like I'm doing it in my head as they leave.
Speaker 2:Right, right, Because if you do it in your head, they don't know you're doing it right. And I want it modeled. I want them to know that I'm doing it and then hopefully eventually they know they can pray that for themselves, they can pray that for others, but it's not even something that I make them stop to do so. So this is another thing where I'm like it's balanced right. I don't want it to be a burden. I don't want them to be like man. For five minutes before I leave the house, mom makes me freeze and we have to bow our heads and blah, blah, blah, Right, Like they can be loading their backpacks as I'm praying and they're walking out the door. It's fine, that's not disrespectful to the Lord. You know, sometimes we think like we have to do all these things just so to respect the Lord. He just wants us to talk to him and he wants us to live every moment of every day with him.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it. What would you say to a grandparent, or maybe someone who is listening, who their kids are all the way grown or they don't have kids. Is there anything that you would say to them about loving on parents or loving on the younger generation, or anything like that?
Speaker 2:anything like that. Yeah, I mean really, our mission is to make disciples. Right, you know? Jesus, in the end of Matthew, before he ascends back up to heaven, says go and make disciples. And so that is all of our mission.
Speaker 2:For me, it's very easy and obvious to say the first disciples I need to make are my kids. That's obvious. They're in my home, god has given them to me. But those aren't the only disciples I need to make. And someone without kids, or with grown kids? You have a place too. And, frankly, if you're a grandparent or of age of a grandparent, maybe you're older, but you don't have kids or grandkids. You have life experience, you are seasoned, you have wisdom, you have something to give.
Speaker 2:One of the most common things I get in ministry is people who say, hey, I want someone to mentor or disciple me, but then I get about zero people who say I'm willing to be a mentor or I'm willing to disciple someone, and the reason is we quickly disqualify ourselves All the time. We think like, well, I don't know enough or I don't do this perfectly, surely that couldn't be me. Well, we all have something to give. We don't have to know all the answers. Simply by showing up, by loving people, by praying, by getting involved, by showing we care, we can make a huge difference. So, really, that mission is to all of us, and God places us each in a unique spot as well. That you know. We can take the time and say, okay, god, show me who am I going to interact with today, who do you want me to show them? Just a little bit of who Jesus is and of his love?
Speaker 1:That was so good. I have loved chatting with you, Shauna. Thank you so much. Thank you Well, as we wrap up, I always do these three questions what is your favorite Bible verse or story?
Speaker 2:Okay, so I'm going to answer a little differently by just saying a book of the Bible, because I absolutely love the book of John. I love reading any of the Gospels because they're about the life of Jesus, but John is so much more personal. John is the author of the book, but he never refers to himself by name. He always refers to himself as the one that Jesus loved, and it shows in the text. You can just see like he is in love with Jesus and he knows that Jesus loves him, and so all the stories in John just are so incredibly personal that that is a go-to favorite of mine.
Speaker 1:I like it. What are you grateful for?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, continuing to stick on the theme of family quality time is definitely one of my love languages and I'm very grateful for my family and for quality time with them. So even though when they get to be teens they don't always want to spend time with me, lately my 13 year old has taken a lot of initiative Like, mom, what can we do together? Can we go play tennis? Can we go golf? Can I help you cook something? And that has been such a blessing and I'm very thankful for that.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that. I love that. What kindness have you shown or what kindness have you received in the last week?
Speaker 2:Gosh, I'll, I'll stay with the same theme. So my 13 year old I you know you don't always expect it. This is when you're like okay, god, thank you, you're, you're working on their heart, right? Um, he came to me and just said how can I help you? You know, he saw me cooking and hurrying around the kitchen and he's like I don't know what to do, but I feel like I should help. I'm like great, then, let's get you helping. You know, and that was just so cool.
Speaker 1:That's so good. That's so good, shauna. Thank you for your wisdom. Thanks for sharing things that you have learned personally from being in ministry and then being a mom. I know that this is going to impact a lot of people, and I'm excited to share your books that you've written with people, because I think sometimes we have a good heart, we really want to do something, but we just don't know. So I'm excited to have this resource for people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that definitely was my goal. Just, you know, let's make it easy, let's make it accessible and, honestly, the hardest thing with both studies is just committing to. I'm going to open it up and start, because once you start you're like this is so easy, this is so doable, I can do it and you don't have to have all that background knowledge. It walks you through and you'll learn, and your kids will learn and, yeah, it'll be a great experience is my hope and prayer.
Speaker 1:Well, and I love that it's small, because small time commitments on it, because I think that that is something where it's if I have to do 20, 30 minutes, sometimes that's feels almost impossible, especially if like, okay, I could get a couple of these done, but then it just gets put to the back burner. So I love that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean so easy it can be done at the dinner table or, you know, breakfast or bedtime, whatever, but yeah, I love that around the dinner table.
Speaker 1:That's a great idea. Thank you for that. Well, I want to thank Holly, with the gourmets, and she's the one who put us together. And so thanks, holly, for sharing Shana with me and thank you, shana, for sharing your story. Thanks for having me, nancy, all right?
Speaker 2:On.
Speaker 1:Ordinary People, Extraordinary Things. Your story is His glory. Thank you for listening and if Shauna's story impacted, you, share it with a friend right now. And don't forget, if you have home videos that are still in an old format that you can't watch, head over to generations2generationscom for a free conversion In two weeks. I'm joined by one of my best high school friends, Muffy Cruz, and we're going to talk about simplifying your life, but simplifying may be completely different than you think. We'll see you next time.