The Imperfect Dads Podcast
A space to discuss all the ups and downs of fatherhood! Hosted by Devon. Formerly The Nashville Dads.
The Imperfect Dads Podcast
Episode 238 | Anthony Dyer author of Moon Child
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
On this episode we have on author and retired US Air Force Special Missions Aviator Anthony Dyer
We reflected on his daughter getting older, realizing how fast time goes, that every cliche has truth to it, his life after retirement, therapy, getting sober and learning to share his story.
Anthony recently wrote a book called Moon Child. It’s about his experience in the military and retiring and returning to civilian life. He discusses how he got sober and faced his demons before imploding his life. Anthony told me in this call that he wrote the book because he knew the journey of figuring out your identity after military service can be difficult and he wanted people to know they aren’t alone in their struggles.
You can find the book on amazon! Link is here
Follow us on Facebook and Instagram and TikTok YouTube. Look for new episodes of The Imperfect Dads Podcast every Monday and Thursday.
This podcast is part of the Never A Phase Network, follow them on instagram at @neveraphasenetwork and check out their podcasts like Emo Kids Anonymous Wasting Time Podcast Certified Fangirl and The Ska Mailman
Welcome to the Imperfect Dance Podcast. This is your host, Devin. We believe dads care deeply about their family and kids, but they don't always have a space to discuss what their life looks like. Our podcast is a space for dads to discuss the ups and downs of fatherhood and how they feel like they're holding it together or how they're not. Thank you for joining us for this episode. This podcast is part of the Never A Face Network. Make sure to follow him on Instagram or go to the website neverface network.com. On this episode, we have an author and retired US Air Force Special Missions aviator, Anthony Dyer. We reflected on his daughter getting older, realizing how fast time goes, that every cliche has truth to it, his life after retirement, therapy, getting sober, and learning to share a story. Anthony recently wrote a book called Moonchild. It's about his experience in the military and retiring and returning to civilian life. He discusses how he got sober and faces demons before imploding his life. Anthony told me on this call that he wrote this book because he knew the journey of figuring out your identity after military service can be difficult, and he wanted people to know they aren't alone in that struggle. And also you can find his book on Amazon. Once again, the name of the book is Moon Child by Anthony Dyer. Just like one more thing.
SPEAKER_02Dad, just start the episode.
SPEAKER_00Oh, my bad. Hey Anthony, welcome to an episode of The Imperfect Dads. I really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01Hey, thanks, Devin. It's a pleasure and honor to be here, bro.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, man. Uh normally first question I ask is pretty simple, and it's just how many kids you got, ages, all that good stuff.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, no problem. So I have uh one one daughter uh named Sullivan. Uh she's a nine years old, man. So it's a blessing to say the least, man. Best thing ever happened to me.
SPEAKER_00That's awesome. When how long until uh my oldest just turned 10 and her being a decade is to me is still kind of like, holy crap, you you've been around for a decade. I've been a dad for a decade. How does it feel to have a kid that's nine and about to enter into like double digits in the next year?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's it's pretty uh eye-opening to how fast you know t time goes by, man. Honestly, like November she'll be uh she'll be 10, you know. So she's uh she's growing the other day. I thought about it, man. I remember she used to fit in almost one hand, you know, and now she's uh almost up to my shoulder, man. So it's uh it's uh honestly an honor and pleasure just to see her grow up, you know. Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00It's I one thing I hate about parenting is how many of the cliches are accurate, you know, because it is like, oh, it goes by fast, and you're like, oh, I don't want that to be true. And then you look up and you're like, my kid's almost my height, my kid's up to my shoulder, you know, and you're like, oh boy, this this goes by real fast. Oh crap, how'd we get here already?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I was I was telling someone the other day, man, like a younger guy was like, you know, like kids don't really, you know, as an aviator, we're checklist oriented driven, right? And yes. I was like, kids don't really come with one, you know. I was like, people are gonna give you advice from from everywhere, you know, in-laws, you name it. I was like, but you have to basically just figure out what works for you and and and go with it, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yes. If someone gives me parenting advice, I mostly just remember, okay, if I encounter this, they might be a resource. But before I had kids, it was like, oh, here's what your kid is definitely gonna do, is how I always treated advice. And it's like, no, man, your kid, you don't know your kids are gonna do it. You know what you're gonna do every single day? No, you don't know. So don't put that expectation on a baby. That's not gonna turn out well. That's very true, man. What's like in the realm of parenting advice, what's like a parenting advice thing that was like, oh man, this was really helpful to learn about or or to hear from someone?
SPEAKER_01I would say early on, like uh, especially like when I was I was still active biggest stuff, was stock up on diapers, man. Like it's incredible how many of those things you go through fast, you know, from a logistical standpoint. Then the other part of that is like um, you know, you you sort of have to get used to being uh you know team midnight, you know, you're gonna have lots of uh early nights and stuff like that. And and you know, I I think a lot of it too is like as they grow, you sort of have to let them make the decisions and if uh and if it is a wrong one, you have to you have to help them see the lesson in that, you know. So don't really I mean hold them accountable, but at the same time, there there's always a lesson to be learned, you know, and everybody everybody makes a mistake, every kid.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I I remember the first time of going to change a baby's diaper and like taking the wet diaper off, having the other diaper, you know, open, ready to go to like slide in. And as you take off one diaper, they pee into the diaper you already had there, or they poop into it because like the cold air hits them, and then you said then you're like, oh, I did not I did not plan for this. So then you're trying to like somehow manage the chaos with one hand and reach for another diaper with the other hand and not get peed on or pooped on all at the same time. That's great.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's true, man. It's always a it's it's hard not to be in a line of fire when you're changing the diaper, you know.
SPEAKER_00So Well, because you have so much confidence, you're like, oh, surely they're not gonna pee on me this time. And that's it's always how it works. Always, brother. What uh what phase of life is your daughter in? If she's nine, like was she and like does she do any extracurricular activities, anything like that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, she's uh she plays basketball and uh and volleyball. We're sort of getting her getting her feet wet with that a little bit. And I honestly she's a phenomenal uh artist. You know, she can yeah, she can draw things that it just blows my mind, man. I'm like, did you trace that? And like she actually drew it, you know. That's uh she's she wants to write a book, believe it or not, man. And we're sort of you know venturing how we're gonna do that and stuff like that at such a young age, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean it's it's a thing. Uh children write children's books. It's it's a process. I mean, you wrote a book, so you should know what you're doing, right? That's how this should work out, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, to be honest, man. I still probably read on a fifth grade level, so hers will sound better than mine, man.
SPEAKER_00So you'll be sitting there being like, I didn't you'll you'll need a thesaurus for your daughter's children's book. Yeah, dude. 100%, yeah. That's awesome. That's um my I have horrible drawing skills. Like I am the worst, like with a pen, with anything with handwriting. Like, if you need a ransom note, I that's what my handwriting looks like. You know, it's like bad, like like that. And both of my I have two daughters and a son. So it goes uh daughter who's 10, daughter who's eight, and son who's four. And like I think my son is the only one who I'm better at drawing than now. Like my daughters are both completely excelled, completely passed by me in that.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, yeah. I I would I'd I told my wife the other day, I was like, she must get it from her, man, because like she's so so smart, you know, and it's yeah, it's whole it's crazy, like, you know, with I don't know, technology, all these different things these days and how they learn, you know, um yeah with you know with iPads and all that stuff, man. It's just incredible how much more she knows at her age than I did at that age, you know. It's it's eye-opening, so yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, there's so many apps now that like yeah, like uh Procreate is one in which like you can draw, you can add layers, and you can start a new. And it's so like there's like no barriers with it. Like right now, like if I wanted to draw and I wanted like different colors, different brushes, I gotta figure out how to get the money for that, pay for all that. And then as opposed to like, hey, I spent is it ten dollars for that? It's like nothing. And then you get access to all this creativity that is just freaking amazing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and and I would say with that, you know, uh I I was taught at a younger, so back in, I don't know, probably my junior senior year, I actually had a I went to a basketball camp, man, and there was this coach, he was from like Little North Ryan up the up the road, and and this guy was older, man. I swear to God, he would get there and he would shoot like a hundred free throws, right? And yeah, and he wouldn't he wouldn't miss. That was his whole thing. And the whole lesson which I get now is like he's trying to teach us uh key to success in life and anything is repetition, you know. And yeah, so I try to tell my daughter with with those two words, you know, repetition and perseverance, then you can go anywhere on the world, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yep. I I coach my middle child's soccer team, and uh it says a bunch of like eight-year-olds running around on a field. And like now as a 38-year-old, like I see all the lanes, I see all the passes you can make. And I played soccer in high school a little bit, but I still like my brain couldn't see what was ahead of me. I just reacted because you know you're an athlete on the field or whatever. And like now, as a grown-up, I'm like, why can't my body have the physical ability to actually play? Because now I get it. Now I understand how this game works.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, man. I I'm getting older, man. I go to bed store and wake up crunchy as they say, so I know the feeling, man.
SPEAKER_00So it's it sucks. It's uh I've switched over. Like uh if I go to a concert, I'm now like, can I sit down at this concert? Because if I can sit down, if I can sit down in this concert, I'm there. But if I have to stand for three hours on cement, I don't know anymore, guys.
SPEAKER_01I've had that that same exact inner dialogue, man. Yeah, that same exact question.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, you that's why you it's um luckily most of the bands I listen to are also getting older, like I am. So they know their audience needs to sit down at their shows. So they're trying to accommodate for us, and I really appreciate that. Heck yeah.
SPEAKER_01I guess f fans age with uh the musicians as well, you know.
SPEAKER_00They do, right? But no, it's true though, man. Like you whenever I I remember yeah, playing basketball soccer as a kid, and yeah, the coaches are like, hey, do this a hundred times. Like, do practice this, get into the rhythm, know yourself in this. And I was just like, I don't want to do this five times. And now yeah, now as an adult, I'm like, dude, I totally get it. This is like the best lesson you could teach them.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, and I I I think dad dads too were were creatures of habits. I like to tell people, you know, like, you know, my wife is the type of person where she could do things once or twice and she's got it, you know. Where I'm I I need that hands-on, that repetition, that muscle memory, and uh stuff like that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I had uh one guy who I had on here once told me, like, one thing he always tells us kids is like, hey, the first time will always be the worst time because you don't know what you're doing and you're figuring it out. And that one I still struggle with because I do it, like if I I'm the cook in our family, I do all the cooking and all that. And if I make the recipe bad, the first time I'm like, oh, should I come back to this recipe? And it's like, yeah, it's the first time you'd ever done it. Why would you expect it to be perfect or good, like, or like really good? Like you've never done it before. Just you'll be better next time. Just trust that.
SPEAKER_01100%. Yeah. And I and the other day, man, like uh, that was the first time. Listen, well, within the last year, I'll say that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, she's we're going down the road, man, and she's asking me sort of about friendship, and what she was asking in a in a way was like, like who to who to let in your circle, right? And you know, she's getting that nine to ten where like friendship is, you know, there's kids I've been, you know, friends with my whole life since uh you know I was ten. But I told her, you know, driving by this bank, man, the only analogy I could really compare to it, it was like, you know, I'd rather have four quarters over a hundred pennies, right? And uh, what do you mean, Dad? I was like, well, you know, if if you go on the let's go you have a dollar, right? You go get changed. I was like, are you gonna ask for four quarters or a hundred pennies? And I shouldn't answer, and uh before she could answer, I said, you know, four quarters. And she's like, Why, Dad? I was like, Well, I was like, you know, I was like, you you could they're more accountable, right? And they hold you accountable. Like they're not gonna fall out of your pocket by the time you get to your car, they're always gonna be for this this ride called life, you know. And I think she got it, man. So I'm I'm big on metaphors and teaching and stuff like that. Yeah, of course. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Nice. Well, it it's really hard also because like in living in an age of social media, like I remember being in my early 20s and being like, oh man, how many friends can I have on this app? How many friends can I have on this? And now at 38, I'm like, can I have like can I even find like three people that I can consistently hang out with that are like the same Asian face of life as me? Like, that'd be great.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's it's difficult, man. And I I I will say though, like uh with with social media now, we're all so connected, right? And the beauty of one of the good things with social media is that you know, I there's friends in like let's say in Europe or something like that, that I, you know, I haven't talked to in years. I could just shoot them a message, next thing you know, have a FaceTime or something like that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, man.
SPEAKER_01It's good. You know, growing up, we didn't we didn't have that, right? It was like Nope. I remember that the old rotary phone was you'd go, and then it was a big thing to even have a hand uh a cordless one, you know.
SPEAKER_00Oh dude.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and getting in trouble if you didn't put it back on, like the charging base. And then and then your and your parents are screaming at you like who didn't do this? And you're like, I think that was me. I think that was me.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's cool. Um, you were in you you'd served, right? You were active military for a while, is that right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that that's true. Yeah, I was a uh special missions aviator and uh the two airframes I flew on was the HT-130 gunship and then as well as the uh the Pave Hawk the Rescue Helicopters.
SPEAKER_00Cool. So I would assume then that like I I feel like people who are military have friends kind of everywhere. So you probably do have friends, I'm sure, in different countries, different areas of the country as well.
SPEAKER_01100%, yeah. Yeah, different countries. Uh just uh some that are still in, you know, so they're they're getting to that point where they uh you know are about to retire themselves. So it's good to see them uh finally hit that button and you know fly off in the sunset, as they say.
SPEAKER_00So that's awesome. That's awesome. Do you so I'm assuming you traveled quite a bit. Do you have any desire for your daughter to make sure to see the world and travel in some sense?
SPEAKER_01I do, you know, and in hindsight, I I would want her to travel the world to to do something that's um she really wants to do, you know. What that is, I don't know yet, you know. But basically what whatever her occupation or what what's going to make her happy is what I want her to chase that dream, you know. Wherever it ends up is where it ends up.
SPEAKER_00So yeah. Totally get that. I I think whenever I was a kid, we I was the youngest of three. So we didn't we if we traveled it was within like an eight mile or eight-hour drive or something like that, you know. And like the thought of um my wife and I already trying to figure out like whenever we've traveled internationally, it's been really cool to like just be like, oh man, this is how the rest of the world is. It's not just the circle that I have. So already in our heads, we're like, oh man, if we can ever figure out how to get our kids to like, if we can ever figure out a like vacation or do an overseas vacation, we're like, oh, that'd be cool because selfishly, because we know how much we learn from that experience, and we hope to teach our kids that as well, you know?
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, yeah. And I think there's you know, there's some beautiful places to see, there's some bad, right? I've met great people overseas. I've met bad, you know, and I think it all it all evens out, you know?
SPEAKER_00It does. It does. What what is your day job, or what do you what is your current like nine to five?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, so right now I'm uh I do the uh flight simulators here at Canon uh Air Force Base in New Mexico. So but basically like uh I'll I'll set up scenarios like the weather, the emergency procedures, the the threats, etc. And you know, I I do that for the AC-130 uh gunship as well as the uh MC 130s and the U-28s.
SPEAKER_00Dude. That's fascinating.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, I get to I get to I tell people I get to play uh you know multi-million dollar video game.
SPEAKER_00It's virtual reality that moves, yeah. So it's uh it's pretty fun, man. That's cool. How how long have you lived in New Mexico for?
SPEAKER_01So I was here the first time from 2010 to uh call it 2015, and that's when I flew in the uh AC130H model gunship as well as the whiskey there for a little bit. And then I went to the you know, the combat search and rescue, the Jolly Green helicopters out at uh 41st out in Moody. Did that for four or five years, then came back in um I think it was 2019, 2020 to do my sunset tour here, and I retired uh December of 21 out of a cannon here.
SPEAKER_00Nice. Congrats on retirement.
SPEAKER_01I appreciate it, man. I can't believe it's almost been five years, bro. Now the thinking about that number, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Uh well, I mean, it it is genuinely like surreal to me to be older and be like, uh we we moved from Nashville to uh Colorado uh back in 2024. And whenever we looked up, like, oh man, how long have we lived in Nashville for? We know we went to college here, all that, and we're like, we lived here for 18 years. And I'm like, wait, are you serious? We were here for eight, like because you just look up and you're like, oh, it's been five years, it's been 10 years, my kid's nine. And you're like, dude, that's not come on, I'm not that old, right? That can't be possible.
SPEAKER_01I feel old though a little bit, but it's you know, every day, man, it's a it's a blessing to still be vertical, I tell people, you know. Yeah, right, man. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00What what made you want to like fly planes or get into Air Force or get into that realm of like military service specifically?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that that's an awesome question, man. And uh so my first fixed swing flight, I'll say fixed swing, was when I joined the Air Force, was July 18th of 2000, to uh from Charlotte, North Carolina to San Antonio, Texas. And before that, when I was in third grade, man, I had a helicopter ride, one of those uh tourist type things in uh in uh somewhere near Pigeon Forge, Tennessee, that area over Gatlinburg and all that.
SPEAKER_00Yep, know exactly what you're talking about. Yep.
SPEAKER_01Y yeah, man, and one of my best friends growing up, she's you know, her dad took us on it, and uh and sh we knew at that point, I think that the aviation in some way, shape, or form would have a big part in my life, you know. Cool. And the first the first ten years in my uh career, I wasn't a gunner yet or a special missions aviator. And I was actually at home at a pizza parlor, man, and you know, I look out and I see the same cracks. I'm on leave at this point, same cracks in the road, you know, and I was like, man, those cracks have been there in my whole life, man. Like like I want to see the world, like I don't want to leave cracks, I want to leave craters, you know. I I I've always telling people like do what you really truly desire and what you want to do, you know, like like die living, you know, and like I always say there's no U-Haul behind the hearse, man. So if you have a bucket list, you know, make sure you check those boxes. Once uh, you know, I have a funny story about my first AC 130 flight ever, man. It went so bad that when that the instructor said something to the effect of like, you know, you're the you're the reason they have to uh brief seat belts on airliners and stuff like that. Oof, yeah. So we're so we're getting to the end of this flight, and he sees me licking my wounds, feeling sorry for myself, all that all that dumb stuff, right? And like he's like, hey, what's the most important word in the uh the dictionary? I was like, Man, I have no idea, you know, and he's like, Perseverance, you know, so I want you to think about that, what that word means to you, and come back next flight ready to to fight, man. And we we actually got to shoot the next flight, and the first time that 105mm went off and recoiled up to 49 inches, I was like, man, I want to do this for the rest of my life, you know. And the whole the whole uh motto, or I guess the uh the mission statement behind the AC130 gunship is to provide those close air support for those unconventional forces, your SEALs, your rangers, your green braids. And as far as being a dad goes, you know, like I looked at those letters a hundred times in the squadron, and there's one particularly like I looked at a lot different the older I got, and it's a ranger holding his baby girl. You know, he thanks the gunship and the squadron for that close air support. He was able to go home and see his baby girl. And yeah, that was my why all those years, man. And that was uh when you lose that identity when you get out, that's a hard, hard feel to swallow.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, man. Yeah. If I can ask, how do you feel like where are you mentally with that? Like you, I mean, you're in you're retired from service, from active duty, um, you're in the next phase of your life. How do you feel like you're handling that currently?
SPEAKER_01I I I think a a lot better than I was, to be honest with you. You know, I had to help there. Yeah, and I did the um, so my last year in the Air Force, man, um, you know, I went to the rescue helicopters, had a really nasty cast of back, and then I came back to gunships and I I lost the lung. All this stuff was going on my literally my last year in the Air Force. Yeah, I was like paralyzed he had hemodiaphragm and all that. And, you know, I was um what was to be honest with you, a weekend drinking habit turned into at least a pint a night, you know, with sleeping pills, all the addiction, all that stuff that comes with that, you know. And and you know, my wife basically gave me the ultimatum of like, you know, it's either the bottle or your family, you know, and I I chose my family by the grace of God.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Which in turn I started getting prolonged exposure therapy, and and part of that process is when you're talking to a psychiatrist, you you start out writing your story over and over and over until the point where you can get comfortable being uncomfortable just talking about it, sort of like we're doing now, just conversing, right? And yeah, and I didn't want to do meds at the time. And the lady, the psychiatrist, was like, you should tell your story over and over. And I said, I said no like a hundred times, man. And once I got out, man, that dust sort of, I was like, you know what, maybe she's right, maybe I can't pay it forward. And we talk about the 22 a day every day and mental health and stuff like that, right? Like, like what am I doing to make a difference? And I was like, Well, I was like, I'm gonna give this book out there, and if one person gets help, that's a blessing, that's a win for the community.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. How if I can ask how long uh how's sobriety going, or how long I I'm assuming you're sober if you gave up the bottle.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm yeah, I'm sober now, and then um, yeah, it's been uh was it February 28th? It was a Monday of 22, I believe. Yeah, that time. And there was a twice and 23 ish where I fell off the wagon and then got back on sobriety, you know, and that that's you know, to be honest with you, that happened. And that's a when you when you when you break a promise to yourself and the God, man, that that hurts worse. But in a way, it sort of, you know, forced that concrete of just like, hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna quit drinking, you know? Yeah. So it gave me something to to really uh have the desire and the willpower and that that person there is to get through it.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, man. Well, I I think like whenever I think about getting sober and sobriety, it's um I think what you're really retraining yourself on the most is like you searching for a new coping mechanism. Like there's a reason you drank, there's a reason why you felt the need to drink a pint every night, and now you're suddenly saying you can't be this person anymore. And your brain is gonna be like, cool, so where's my release come from? Like, where how do I, I still, I still want to, I still need something. So what am I gonna do? So it is to find your new way to reset yourself and to, you know, end your day in a way where you like kind of set yourself apart from whatever your day-to-day life was and kind of like recenter in some way. I I think it's easy to assume alcohol drugs of some sort will help you do that until you realize no, it's ruining you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, you know, and and going cold turkey is a very hard thing to do. And I and I've thought about it, man, because people are, you know, people would always ask, why can't you have two or three and be social? And I think in, you know, in this world, I was never a guy that could all or nothing, right? That's what I'm getting out. Yeah, I can never have two or three. And and I would what I would do is like binge drink, man. And if you've ever had that level of alcoholism where you wake up with the shakes and all that, like it's a vicious cycle you're in, man. It's it's hard so hard to get out. And but I would always wake up and be like the two questions, but who do I owe money to and who do I need to apologize to? And I I got sick of that life, man, and that feeling and just hung over every day, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And it's so like it's I I do I I think that's a pretty common thing with it, is people will be like, oh, you can just have a drink, right? And you're like, no, I'm an alcoholic. If I didn't if I if I if I knew how to do this casually, I wouldn't be here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like I I went out, this wasn't no not so uh just a uh pass, but uh I went, you know, we were eating when there's this lady at a casino, you know, and uh she's like, Hey, is it hard for you to naturally we're you know, eating beside the bar, you know, you know, ever take 15 feet. Yeah, and uh she's like, Hey, is it hard? I'm like, Man, every day it's hard. Like, yeah, every day's a struggle, you know, but there's a decision I have to make for my family every day and to choose to stay sober, you know. And it's uh it's a blessing when you finally get that, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yep. Yep. There's uh Jason Isbill's like Americana uh musician, and one of his songs about alcoholism is it gets easier, but it doesn't get easy. And I feel like that's probably the ease like the best, like it's easier to understand how to choose your family, choose yourself to not choose the drink. That doesn't mean it's easy though.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's it's it's So so hard, bro. I tell people go going turkey go turkey is one of the hardest things you could do, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And realistically, like um thanks for saying that you fell off the wagon because that that is part of the journey, is you do get you it is such a daily decision to not drink. It is such a daily decision to choose your family that there are moments where hey you you don't choose them and then you go shit and then you then you figure then you reset, you redo it, and you um it's a journey, man. And it's never just a hey, I stopped drinking and I'm done forever. It's like, no, man, the second you think that is the second you pick up a drink because you're overconfident.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and and to be honest, that when it happens, it starts out with a little lie I would tell myself, like, you know, you can have two or three, it's gonna be okay, you know. Like it's not hard drugs or something like that, you know. BS I would tell myself, you know, next thing you know, I'm plastered.
SPEAKER_00Yep. Yep. Or it's like uh I feel like the lie I have to avoid is the I'm not as bad as like, well, if I only have uh if I only get a little drunk tonight, I'm not as bad as the guy who drank three bottles of bubba. I'm like, and it's like you're still not living in your integrity, you're still not who you know you can be. So a hundred percent. What what have you found to uh like fill your time, help you reset? I mean, uh therapy I know is a huge part of a lot of this. What have you found to like fill your time, or how do you feel like you um reconnect with yourself? Or since you aren't drinking, what are you doing instead?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, I'm still doing some writing, man.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01But when I first started that journey, man, every time I would get that urge, that crave, like I started putting words to paper, you know, and a lot of times it didn't even make sense what I what I would write down, man. Or waking up in the morning and having this Charlotte's web of emotional words I threw on paper and try to make sense of that in two decades or where you name it, man. But it's uh when it all comes together and you actually got a flow of a story, it's a it's a beautiful process, man.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. It's messy though, man. It I think it's we live in a world in which we see the finished product constantly. And you might read someone's book and you don't know the six months of writing, the two months of drafting and all that that it took to get all you see is the finished product. And like, yeah, man, the first time you do something, it the what I an editor is a great thing because it just helps you it helps you organize and like find the point you're trying to make this entire time.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, yeah. And it's you know what's been overwhelming, man, is like you see this common struggle between veterans and first responders, that loss of identity and the and the alcohol. And I it's been overwhelming with the texts and emails, and you name it, I've heard it. Maybe even reviews, you know, like where people I served and flew with had the same exact loss of identity, that struggle, and uh, they chose to get help for that. And that's a that's a blessing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that that is. I hate that you had to have the moment where your wife looked at you and said, You choose us or us or you choose the bottle. I am grateful that you were able to choose your family and not the bottle.
SPEAKER_01100%. Yeah, that's the best decision I ever made, man. Yeah, I thought about all the time and the alcohol's robbed for me, you know. Like, because you know, all these years I was on all these deployments and stuff, so I'm already losing that time on my family, right? And then to get back and and to time travel being drunk, you know, like to miss out on more time, right? That's that's a sad thing, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yep. And I mean, it seems like from what I from my friends who have gotten sober and everything, it seems like their family is what they start with. Is they're like, hey, I need to be sober for my family. And as they get into it, they then change to like I actually need to be sober for myself. I because I it's not just I'm I'm also missing out on all these moments. I'm all like, and that that shift I feel like helps with um staying sober is realizing like, hey, you're also you're doing this for yourself. You're not just doing it for your loved ones. Like you yourself also deserve to be present for your family and your moment with your family.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. And you look at uh what what is the number one? I hope this is right, I'm gonna quote me on it, but the number one killer of men is like, was it heart disease or heart attacks now? You know, and you think every time you drink a drink, you're probably digging that grave a little bit. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yep. And like, I mean, personally, I want to be around for my family. So I'd rather not I'm I'm already digging the hole by existing. Let's not add a spet's not speed up that shoveling, you know?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, I feel that, man. It's uh, you know, it and when you when you finally get it, man, it's it's awesome. You know, you feel better mentally, physically, and yeah, I get to be the the best dad I could be. You know, somebody asked me the other day, man, like, what's the mission now? And who they're like, basically, what if you get to fly any aircraft and then what's the mission? Who's beside you as a co-pilot? I was like, well, it's like the mission now is being the best dad I could be and best husband I could be. And the my wife is the co-pilot because she's on this mission with me, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's awesome. Now I'm glad it's um I think that's a beautiful thing about family, is I completely can understand your identity probably was, hey, I'm in active service, I'm military, I'm a plane, I fly, and then you retire, and then you're like, well, who the hell am I now? So if like you're able to root yourself in your family as your identity, I only see that being rewarding and something you're like, hell yeah, I figured this out.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. And it's when when you start getting those exciting moments in the calm, right? And realizing to see your kid grow and the the lessons she's learned from your teachings or whatnot, you know, it it's it's an awesome sight to see, man.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it is. It is, and I feel like around nine or ten is whenever you realize your kid's actually been listening this whole time. Oh yeah, and it's great.
SPEAKER_01Kids are so honest, bro. Like I tell people kids are the most honest people in the world, like you know, there's funny moments with that, and there's some that are just heart-wrenching too with that, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yep. Yep. I think my my wife travels for work pretty regularly, and she asks like my middle child, almost like half-joking, like, Oh, do you like who do you feel like you know me or daddy more? And she was like, Well, daddy, because he's around more.
SPEAKER_02And she was like, Oh my crap. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's when you learn, like, okay, don't ask questions you don't want to know the answers to. Good to know. Oh, yeah. Yeah, man. It's uh like I said, they're so honest and but you know, so fun to be a dad. It is, it is. Tell me more about your book, or like what made you want to write it. I know you kind of already hinted at that, like some energy of like, hey, if this helps one person not feel alone, then this entire thing is worth it. So tell me about your book, what made you want to write it, all that good stuff.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no problem, man. So it it starts out in uh uh rugged Appalachia there in uh Silva, North Carolina, you know, small town. And uh, you know, it's a place where the sense of community is strong. It's one of the I look at the few places still left in the world where you know a handshake is as good a a contract, as cliche as that sounds, you know. And everybody had everybody's back, you know, and um all that sort of stuff. And sort of the roots part of my story, the roots and wings, you know, the roots being that this sort of this moral compass that was molded by my family growing up and the lessons I've learned and all kinds of stuff that are sort of appalay uh specific, you know, and then and then but still at the end of the day it's good to know where you come from, but it's more important to me, like where I'm going, you know, uh being the wings part. And that's what the Air Force definitely gave me the wings to see the world and you know, to have all these different experiences, you know, and and basically I I realized at a young age, man, that like you know, like was it Marcus Rayleigh said, what you're doing life echoes an eternity, man? So you know you start dying the moment you're born, so I wanted to get out and and make a make a living and and die a living, you know.
SPEAKER_00Nice. That's awesome. What I know you said that like, or you just said that you did a lot of therapy for kind of relearning your identity and everything. Was it hard for you to admit that you needed therapy, or was it kind of like once you decided to get sober, you're like, hey, this is how you do it. This is the path that I need to do to get to reach this goal.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, I'll be honest. I went in that office with a chip on my shoulder, bro. Like, you know, I'm I remember being like, what does this lady know about this and that? You know, and USOCOM has like basically this this uh this thing called preservation of the force and family. And in each squadron, you get a uh psychologist, you have a uh a physical trainer and a physical therapist. Usually it's for each uh unit, you know. And uh so I saw her, you know, and it's a civilian lady, and I was like, what does she know about this and that? And she gave me that cliché metaphor of like, hey, well, you wouldn't, you know, ask your dentist to fix your car, would you? And you know, maybe a smart what if my dentist fixed cars, something like that. You know, you don't know my dentist, he's very handy. So there was a very rough, rough start, man. But but she she made a lot of sense in the end, man. And I'm I'm so thankful for her. And yeah, you know, she's a for honestly the first time I told the story, I I cried, she cried, and that's what she's like, you should tell this to pay it forward, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um I think we're the culmination of like whatever you saw as a kid as being normal and whatever you became. So like you do have to unpack or unlearn some stuff from your childhood in order to move forward, to grow and to learn other stuff. And a therapist or a counselor, someone who goes, like, hey, here's a pattern I see. Do you know that this is do you know that this is a pattern? And like, who the hell is that self-aware to notice all their patterns? No one is.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, and uh, you know, it she did a lot, she tied a lot of things together for him. It's crazy how she did it, you know, and like uh like little things like uh like dude, it got so bad, man, where I would time myself getting to work, as stupid as that sounds, as weird as that sounds, I would do stuff like that. And then uh I'd freak out in a car wash, man. Uh Walmart would always drive me crazy, you know, these type of situations where I'd, you know, freak out a little bit, man. Yeah. But she uh she made sense of all that and why that was happening, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think most of my freakouts, most of my like whenever I get more um harsh is because there's some need that I don't know how to express that I don't trust is going to get met. Yeah. And to have the ability to step back and realize that of like, why am I at the gas pump waiting for someone to pump their gas faster and I'm pissed at them that they don't know how to do this faster? It's like, what who cares? Like, calm down, man. Like, who that doesn't matter. Like you it'll be fine.
SPEAKER_01Dude, I've had that same dialogue with myself, man. Like little things like, you know, like going to the gas station or a grocery store, right? And you have a handful of groceries and you're trying to pay as fast as you can because the person behind you, you think, you know, weird stuff like that, man. She made a lot of sense of, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Where I I assume that, like, yeah, that's honestly a great example. It's like, oh man, I see a line of three people. I better have my card ready, have my stuff ready, be ready to go. And it's like, yeah, it's not it's helpful. It's not a bad thing to do, but like I am attributing a hell of a lot more value to this than I need to.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think the biggest thing that that process taught me too is like to live in the moment, man. Like there's there's things that you can't change, man, that's happened right. And you could change what's what's gonna happen, right? But at the same time, just live and feel that moment, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. As far as like writing a book, was it did you ever think you'd be an author? Like, is that did it take you a little bit to like be like to grow into that identity of like, oh, hey, Anthony, you're actually an author. You can write a book. Like, this is something you can do. How did you how was it realizing that like you have that in you?
SPEAKER_01It was I I still don't believe it to be honest with you. Like that the other day the other day, uh, I had a gunner friend I used to fly with. He's like, he's like, Anthony's like, d do you realize like you you published a book, man? Like you have a published book, like how how good that is. I was like, man, like honestly, like it all happened so fast, you know, and I was like, I didn't really take a second to to realize that and accept that, you know. And but it is it is probably one of the smartest things I've ever done for myself, you know, and to help me uh see this common struggle between these, you know, these uncommon or these common men and women doing these very uncommon things, you know, whether it's military first responder, you name it, that you realize that everybody has that same struggle to an extent, you know? Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, totally. Did therapy kind of already get you in the mode of writing down your thoughts, writing down your story? So whenever it came time to write the book, you had some like uh muscle memory to work off of, like, okay, here's what I want to say, here's what I want to write about.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, 100%. Like the uh, you know, they start out, but I what I liked about prolonged exposure is like you start out writing it over and over and over, right? And then you get to the point where you're talking, and then they time you saying it. Like you get to that point where they they yeah, they they time you saying it, and then uh, you know, and there's different apps they would have too for you to do at night and stuff like that. But yeah, it would just um you get so comfortable talking about the the you know the trauma, they peel back that onion to that root cause of that. And then you expose it, you you then you talk about it to where it's not normalized, but you can you can handle it, you can deal with it, you can talk about it, you can understand it, you know. Yeah. Yeah, and it I I would say from uh pen to pad to to book in hand, it is a relatively short read, but uh it was about seven months or so, you know. It was uh crazy how it all came to be. So Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I think like uh oh, I can't think of the name of the type of therapy, like the rapid eye movement, the sensitation. I can't think of the acronym for that. It's like REM or something. Yeah, REMD, whatever. I'm not a therapist. I have ants who are therapists, and they've told me that like what you do with that is basically you learn how to be comfortable with the situation so that your nervous system doesn't react to it. So you kind of enter into the space, but like it's not like but like your nervous system isn't like fight or flight as much. So then you hopefully become objective about what you went through, so then you can talk about it, deal with it, handle it. But like until you do that work, then every time you enter into like, hey, let's talk about this moment, and you're like, nope, running away, I'm out. See you guys later every time.
SPEAKER_01That that that is the best I've ever heard that explained, Devon. Honestly, I like I'm glad you put you said that because that's exactly the process, you know.
SPEAKER_00Man, don't give me too much, don't give me too much credit.
SPEAKER_01Don't give me too much credit. But yeah, that's awesome you know about that and how that that's how it is, man. That's that's what it is, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, I mean, especially when you're a dad, like um, you having trauma, you having uh, I'm assuming some form of PTSD to deal with. Whenever you're going through day-to-day life, your nervous system literally is saying, you might die here. There's a threat here. How do I how do I handle this? And like that's that's uh I don't I don't ever make the best decisions whenever I'm in that mode. Not me neither. Realizing how to make your brain be like, hey man, that you're basically trying to figure out to tell yourself, hey, you're safe. Like you're you got this, you're good. And it it's a lot of work sometimes to get to to can to allow yourself to trust that you are safe in an environment.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and and I think uh I was able to to tie flying to it. We have we call it an EP mantra, right? Like an acronym, right? We're we're always saying like aviate, navigate, communicate, those three things are like be an athlete today. Uh you know, and and I like to break it down to like compare it to life, like aviate, you know, like like no what no matter what you're doing, first thing is to realize, hey, you're still flying, maintain aircraft control, keep keep aviating, you know. Take a second, right? And then navigate. It's good to know, okay, this happened, but but where am I going to end up? Where am I going? You know, and then communicate is the part where like you talk to a therapist, you talk to your friends, you you let people like, hey, no, like something something's not right right now, you know. Communicate that. So those three those uh three words, aviate, navigate, communicate. And my favorite, my favorite metaphor ever though, is what Henry Ford said. Like, you know, life, you're gonna have struggles, you know, you're gonna have all these different things, you're gonna have adversity, right? He's like, remember an aircraft takes off against the wind, not with it. So that's always uh really hit home for the perseverance part of that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, I think it's easy to um when things don't go your way. I think a mature or healthy version of myself goes, okay, cool, then go, I still want to end up at this goal. How do I get there now? I just hit a roadblock, how do I do? How do I get there? But a younger version of myself would have been like, Mump, hit a roadblock, I'm not meant to do this. And it's like, well, come on, man. Like, you don't know that. Like, everyone's gonna have problems. No one, no one starts off with like a perfect easy road. Or if they do, I I don't know of it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and and and and if we did, right, if if life was, you know, sunny at 75 every day in like what kind of life would that be? There's there's no scars, there's no there's no roadmap to your to your journey, man. And that's the beauty of life, man. You know, it's is getting over those storms.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it is. And you it's such a weird thing because you don't want to like I think who you are whenever you don't get your way is a fascinating way to know who you are, to know a lot of different elements of your personality. But also I don't want to have a lot of moments in which I don't like in which I have to understand that. You know, I want to create a life in which it's pretty easygoing, I can predict myself and everything. That's not how life works.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. And I if it was predictable, like if if I wrote a book about, you know, just a basic normal, like I said, Sunny and 75 life, who would want to read it at the end of the day? Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_00You gotta have some conflict, man. No story without conflict. It's hard to want to read a story without conflict.
SPEAKER_01But 100%. That's right, Devin.
SPEAKER_00Uh, before I start wrapping down everything, is there anything else from your book you want to make sure to highlight? Any other thing about it or anything like that, just before I, you know, wrap down, ask you the five questions, send out the episode.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, no problem. So I would say definitely that that there's two main reasons I wrote it is to for basically to show sort of the rest of America too, the civilians, right? Like, like this is what goes on when you're sleeping, these type of things. And then as far as the mental health part of it, man, I always put a plug in here for like if you're in these uncommon jobs, whether it's military, first responder, like, you know, we're just finishing up two decades of war and there's a lot of stuff going on right now, too, right? Like, it's okay not to be okay, but it's not okay to do nothing about it, man. So so seek help and you you'll be glad you did, you know.
SPEAKER_00Dude, that's awesome. And like, I I I really believe in that. I really believe that like um having more people realize, like, hey, if you're not okay, it's okay. And there's actually resources for you. People want to love you, people want to show you that like you're okay, is something I will always want to promote, especially for men, especially for dads, because it is easy to believe wise. It's easy to believe something that isn't true and then make some really dumb decisions.
SPEAKER_01100%, dude.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, totally. So, how I end every episode is ask every guest a series of five questions. They're pretty fun and lighthearted. First question is Did you have any backup names for your daughter? Like, did you have any names that you almost named her?
SPEAKER_01No, no, I I didn't. And I actually I have this exact moment in the book there, if I can, man. Uh so my wife is uh yeah, my wife is is Navajo, right? From Navajo uh nation up the road here. And then uh, you know, I'm I'm Scotch Irish, you know, and my grandfather's name is me Happy and stuff like that. And and I I know the old Gaelic word for uh for brown eyes or dark eyes is is celibate, you know. And I assumed yeah, our daughter would have dark eyes, so uh we named her a celibate, man. So that's what I always wanted to stick with.
SPEAKER_00That is awesome. That I love that stuff. Like I love like um whenever you can realize like what a word means, I I think names are really important. So that's that's freaking cool. And I love learning that stuff. So, dude, that's so cool. That's awesome. Thank you, bro. Okay, next question is do you have a favorite like TV or movie dad? Or one that comes to mind whenever I asked that question.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so so I I want to say Larry David, man, from Curibre Enthusiasm, but I don't know if he has but I don't know if he has kids in the show, bro.
SPEAKER_00You know, I don't think he he doesn't, but he has some very curmudgeon dad energy that is hilarious in that show.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that if you ever like the things that happen to him, like you'll you realize, like, man, that's happened, right? Like you sit beside the guy in the airliner that has on like like George Song, like really short ones or something, you know, like just random stuff like that, man.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. That show I have to be in the right mindset for it because it makes me so deeply uncomfortable. Because the entire time I just want to make Larry stop. You don't have to be this person, just stop.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I and I I think he says the loud part out loud, right? Where he like like what we all have been thinking in those moments, you know, like there's so many different scenarios that actually happen to us, right? And he he says what everybody wants to say, but he has the I guess the courage and you know he can say it, you know.
SPEAKER_00So he can script the episode around it where it does where he doesn't actually get punched in the face in real life, because that's always my fear, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Next question. Do you have a replacement curse word? Like in when instead of cursing, do you have a word you say instead, or are you still just saying the curse word around your kid?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I try to say like frickin', uh you know, every now and then I'll let the the real deal slip, you know, and it Yeah. You know, but that but it's it's cool that that she knows not to say that and right and to to realize that it's to hold me accountable, it'll be like, hey dad, like you shouldn't say that, you know. So it's awesome to see that that that moral choice she's making, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Next question, what's like your favorite activity or like favorite thing to do with your kid?
SPEAKER_01I would say fishing, man. I'm I remember the first time my daughter caught a trout, man. It just to see her eyes light up and stuff like that, you know, but to fight the fish a little bit, the trout, you know, it was awesome, man.
SPEAKER_00Dude, that's so cool. I am it's really cool whenever you have like an activity you've spent your entire life doing, and then your kid does it like once or twice, and they're like, oh my gosh, this is so cool. And that is very life-giving.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's awesome to see I'm uh the joy in that moment, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yes, definitely. Um, okay, next question or last question. What is your least favorite like kid show? Like, what's your like whenever your kid wants to watch it or something like that, you're like, oh my gosh, this is awful. What am I doing with this show?
SPEAKER_01I've seen, dude. I actually learned to love Moana. I've seen Moana like a hundred times, bro. But it it really is a good movie, you know. But by the 150th time you've seen it, you know, all right, man.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. You know? So I do. Well, also sometimes it's like, what is like if you know you're gonna have to watch the show a million times, then it you're like, okay, maybe I do like this. Maybe the show isn't that bad after all.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. And I there's a man, there's a lot of messages in Moana too, that's really good. You know, but yeah, like I said, you looking back at it, like, yeah, it was awesome to watch it and to see her her learn from that a little bit, and then but it's the same time 150 times watching something, yeah, you get sort of next one. Pretty much.
SPEAKER_00Yep, pretty much. And then um, last thing for you, Anthony, it's just a moment for self-promotion. So, like, how do we find your book? How do we follow you? Like, all that good stuff.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so if you just honestly just uh Google uh Moon Child by Anthony Dyer, you'll have it on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, wherever they sell books, and then uh my uh Instagram account is Instagram account, excuse me, is uh all lowercase marco underscore bro two one. And then um lastly, my email if you ever need me, I'll always respond. It's at anthonyp.diar at gmail.com.
SPEAKER_00Nice. Well, hey, Anthony, thanks so much for your time today. Um, I really appreciate you sharing your story. Thanks for taking some time to do a call with me, and I will catch you next time.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, Devin. I I wouldn't miss this one for the world. Thank you, bro.
SPEAKER_00Perfect. I appreciate, man. I'll see you next time. All right.
SPEAKER_01Thanks, brother.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much for listening to the episode. Make sure to follow us on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube at the Imperfect Dads Podcast. And make sure to give us five stars wherever you listen to us. Music, editing, and production is all done by me. Make sure to tune in on Mondays and most Thursdays for nepisodes. This podcast is part of the Never A Face Network. Make sure to go to NeverAffacedwork.com to learn more about 'em.