Episode 236 | Keeth Apgar from Harmonica Pocket

On this episode we have on Keeth Apgar from the band Harmonica Pocket.

We talked about life in the Pacific Northwest, connecting with nature, playing music for kids, being inspired by how kids view the world, life with his son, going from pre school teacher to musician, loving the craft of writing songs, and embracing your mistakes as a parent.

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This podcast is part of the Never A Phase Network, follow them on instagram at @neveraphasenetwork and check out their podcasts like Emo Kids Anonymous  Wasting Time Podcast Certified Fangirl and The Ska Mailman

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:03

Welcome to the Imperfect Dads Podcast. This is your host, Devin. We believe dads care deeply about their family and kids, but they don't always have a space to discuss what their life looks like. Our podcast is a space for dads to discuss the ups and downs of fatherhood and how they feel like they're holding it together or how they're not. Thank you for joining us for this episode. This podcast is part of the Never A Face Network. Make sure to follow them on Instagram or go to the website neverface network.com. On this episode, we have on Keith Apgar from the band Harmonica Pocket. We talked about life in the Pacific Northwest, connecting with nature, playing music for kids, being inspired by how kids feel the world, life with the sun, going from preschool teacher to musician, loving the craft of writing songs, and embracing your mistakes as a parent. Just like one more thing. Oh, my bad. What's it like having Keith spelled in the not quote unquote traditional way of Keith?

SPEAKER_02 1:03

Well, I answer to both. I answer to K-E-I-T-H or K-E-E-T-H. You can call me both. You know, it's funny, people change their names a lot, and I I changed my name from Keith to Keith. Okay. It's it's just a kind of a pseudonym that I use for my as a writer. Okay. So the root of of my name, Keith, is as a person who comes from the woods. It's like a man of the woods. And that's the name that they gave me, you know. And um, I'm named after my grandfather. My middle name is Monta. I'm named after my great-grandfather, too, whose name was Monta his whole life. Everyone called him Monta. After he died, we found out that wasn't actually his name, but that was after me and my dad were both named after him. His name is actually Montalian, and uh, it's an unusual name that I've never, you know, I did some, you know, snooping around. I couldn't find any other references to it. Kind of sounds like mountain lion in Italian or something, but not Italian. Um anyway, so um my here, I'm gonna I'm I'm getting I'm answering your question about my name and how to pronounce it. When I was a little kid, my dad called me Keith with the teeth because I I had like these really big kind of buck teeth, you know? And um there's some pictures of me, and it's just like, oh yeah. Sometimes I show them to kids. I'm like, hey, check me out, you know. Gets better. So he called me Keith with the teeth. When I started writing songs, that was one of the songs I wrote, just called Keith with the teeth. And it it was kind of my first kid, one of my first kids songs. I didn't know I was writing a kid song, but anyway, so in that song title, I spelled Keith like Teeth. And so that was kind of the beginning of that. And then when I started registering my music, uh the copyrights and all that stuff, I spelled my my writer's name is K-E-E-T-H. And so that's how I use that out in the public.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Nice. That's awesome. And like, yeah, I I doubt you've got much competition for that name. And like the hey, I'm gonna go promote, I'm Keith spelled this way. Like, sorry, that we already got one. I doubt is a conversation you hear very often.

SPEAKER_02 2:58

Yeah, I mean, there are there there's there's some more of us, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

That's all I think Devin, I looked it up once. It means like perfect poet or something like that. Cool. And that's a that's a lot to live up to. Like Man from the Woods, yeah, I can be that, but like you're a perfect poet. And I'm like, can you take away the word perfect? Can you just say poet, someone who enjoys words?

SPEAKER_02 3:19

Can I Well, here we are in the Imperfect Dads podcast. So, you know, you just gotta work with what they give you. You know, some things, some things we choose and a lot they give us.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Yes. That's what when my parents named me, they're like, you know what? In about 30 years, 34 years from now, there's gonna be a thing called podcasts, and he's gonna be one of right. What uh what area of the country do you live in?

SPEAKER_02 3:43

So I'm in the Pacific Northwest. I live on a tiny island that nobody's ever heard of. And I don't say that to be mysterious, but you know, not many people have heard of it. Like, even the people on the next island, which is a lot bigger, I'm like, oh yeah, I'm from I'm from Merrowstone. And they're like, Where? And I'm like, yo, we live like three miles away from each other as the crow flies. Yeah. So I live in the Pacific Northwest. It's spring out here, it's super dark, it's it's a hundred percent chance of rain today. Okay. But it's a really beautiful place, a lot of big trees and um beautiful wildlife. You know, the other day there was like six deer in my out my window and two in the fr out the front window. So it's a lot of wildlife, owls and eagles and slugs and salamanders, and it's a pretty magical place.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

That's cool. We we live out in Denver area, and like being out west and being outside just feels different. Before we lived like in Nashville, and I'm originally from Indiana, and like being outside was good, but like being out west, Pacific Northwest, like the great, like all of this feels drastically different to be. I don't know why it feels so different to me, but being out in nature out here is not the same as it was in the south or the Midwest.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

Yeah, the mountains are just bigger. You know, one thing about well, the Rockies are are pretty tall.

unknown 5:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:01

When you're when you approach them from the east, as you're as you're moving to Denver, you know, from the east, you see them rise on the horizon and you really get to sense how big and grandose they are. In the Pacific Northwest, you can look at the mountains from sea level, and so they're it's just epic, you know. Like you can look from sea level up to 14,000 feet. And so the mountains are just, you know, they're they are stunning, you know. Yeah. Yeah. So it's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

Yeah, whereas like I'm already starting at like 5,280. I forget what the mile high marker for Denver is, but like, yeah, my my start that 5,000 feet to climb is like or to look up is uh yeah, that's cool. That I wouldn't have thought of it before. That makes a lot of sense though. You gotta come out. I like love every band from like Portland and Seattle. So like I I I know I somewhat belong or would belong in the Pacific Northwest as well. So I I need to spin. I remember uh for the Decemberists, whenever they did The King Is Dead, I think that on that tour they did an audio intro in which the mayor of Portland at the time like read like a script for them about like walking through the Pacific Northwest and like set the tone for the entire show. I remember sitting there being like, I need to visit at some point. So I'm still working on doing longer visits up there. Have you always lived up there or how'd you end up in the Pacific Northwest?

SPEAKER_02 6:22

No, I I haven't. I grew up in New York. Okay. I'm kind of from the opposite, almost opposite of this place. I'm from I'm from the suburbs. So I grew up in the suburbs of New York, and the first suburb in the history of suburbs, you know, in the modern modern era, it was on Long Island. Um, and if you look at the the back cover of Billy Joel's record, who's another Long Island famous, you know, Long Island songwriter. Well, I'm not I'm not putting myself in the group of famous Long Island songwriters. I'm just saying that we're, you know, there's a lot of You're given a frame of reference. Twisted Sister, Mariah Carey, Billy Joel. But on the back of his record, Iron Curtain, I think it is, there's a picture, an aerial shot of a suburb. And I I think it's Levittown. But it's um that's where the that's like where the first suburbs are, like back after the World War II. And so I'm from that place, you know, where you, you know, it's safer to get in a car and cross the parking lot than to walk it on foot. Yep. You know, there's a lot of plants, but they're all ornamentals, you know. I never saw anybody growing growing vegetables in their garden, you know, in my neighborhoods or you know, driving around. So it's a very different place. But down from New York, and uh I moved to the Northwest because I just wanted to get I wanted to get off the East Coast.

unknown 7:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

But had a good I had a good friend who was living in Seattle. We were we were really close and he was he he kidnapped me after college and he's like, come on, you're coming out, and uh never look back.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

Yeah. That I I get that vibe for the Pacific Northwest, or it feels like we're just living out here in Denver of once you get out here, once you get like where you can actually be around nature a little bit more, it's just so different than like the big city life that it is like I feel like it's a certain it's a unique level of like centering that you can do whenever you're in nature that you just can't do whenever you're in the suburbs of a massive city like New York.

SPEAKER_02 8:14

Yeah, no, it it's true. And you know, I don't know if you ever if you go to the ocean and you look at the horizon, you know, it helps me open up my thoughts. Like I think I think differently. I and then I feel differently inside. And like, you know, being being in the trees, like walking through the trees, even on a rainy day like this, or put on some rain gear, or you know, when the sun's coming through and hitting the trunks of the trees, you know, it's magical. It, you know, I I think it does change, you know, it informs our thoughts, it informs the mute, certainly the music that that I've written and created and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

Yeah. I'll I'll do that sometimes if I go like on a walk out here at night. Like, I mean, I'm in like 10 miles south of Denver. I'm in Denver suburbs. And like, yeah, the stars are just freaking bright out here. Like, because I know for me, like I'm just physically closer and everything. But like I I'll like go on a walk at like 9 p.m. sometimes and like just look around and be like, oh, there are stars and these are beautiful and gorgeous. And I know like I've done like uh my wife and I did the Grand Canyon once, in which we stayed like in an airstream trailer like 30 miles outside the Grand Canyon, and that sky at night is like almost over it's almost like overwhelming how bright it is. And like I think one thing that's always fascinating about nature and life is whenever you find those moments where you're like, this is here constantly, like these stars are always here. Like, but I I just moved my settings and surroundings, and now I'm aware of what beauty is around me in a way that my day-to-day life makes it hard to be in tune with.

SPEAKER_02 9:38

Definitely. I know, and I wonder about the stars we can't see during the day because I'm not the scientist that really gets all the math and the geometry of this, but like, you know, I think we only see half of the sky, you know, at night or or less, you know, depending on our our level of insomnia, willingness to stay up. Like, but what are the constellations during the day that we're missing, you know? What would their names be? And what were their myths and their stories be over the center?

SPEAKER_01 10:07

Uh I I think nature has the ability to make you feel small in the way that it's healthy to feel small, you know, to be like, oh, I am this stuff is a lot bigger than me. That's good to that's good to be aware, like, and that's reality. Like, yeah, that sky is bigger than you. This amount of stars are more than you, and like just be like, oh, cool. Awesome. I am I am small in a healthy way to be small.

SPEAKER_02 10:32

Well, that you know, that reminds me of a story. The first time, so my son was born in February. And so, you know, a few days, he was born at home. We did we did a home birth. And um, so for a few days, we just were nested at home. And then I remember the first day I took him outside. He was about five days old. And um, you know, I had him in my arms, and you know, and I went out and I and he was he was awake, he's kind of pointed up at the sky, and I and I was like, Montana, that's the sky, you know. And he he like he was looking up and he just goes, It's just like it was like it seemed like it was overwhelming, you know, like he'd just been in the womb and now he's come out and he's like using his eyes, and then it was like cannot compute, you know, and he just like just shut down for a little bit and took a nap, you know. So, you know, that the sky is big, you know. It is, and we're so normalized to these things, you know. Like we've we've seen them our whole lives, you know, decades. And so we're like, yeah, it's the sky, yeah, whatever, it's the stars, uh, whatever. But like it's really magical. So when we can stop and see that beauty, right? Make the hair stand up, or and that's one cool thing about being a dad or just hanging out with kids, you know, because they're experiencing certain things for the first time, and you're with them, why witnessing this, you know, it's can be pretty, pretty moving.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

It is. It's um, I think it just makes you to me like, yeah, that stuff is always there. Like the sky's always beautiful, there's always immense detail to plant life. Like, there's so that you live in an ecosystem. So there's like there's life around you constantly. And I think like a kid just makes me realize how much life that's around me I ignore because I have an efficiency monster that lives inside me that would love to get stuff done and assumes by getting stuff done, like I'm doing like I'm doing something that's a greater good. But also it I think that balance of being mentally present to the moment you're in, but also making sure like you're getting stuff done. You've got food to like food in the fridge to make later, that you know, you have enough money to pay for your mortgage, like that balance. I think your kids are always trying to pull you into like that. But be here, be here. And you're like, I gotta go work a shift, I gotta go do something so we can eat those. So that's the that's the real tension I feel like you always hold as a parent is I want to be present for every moment, but also need to be able to provide so that these moments can happen at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

Yeah. Yeah. How uh that's it. You said it. Yeah, right. How uh how old is your son now? He just turned 15. Dude. What's it like to have a 15-year-old?

SPEAKER_02 13:09

Man, don't believe anything people say about teenagers because it might not be true.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:17

Obviously, you know, we have stereotypes, you know, sometimes for good reason. And not not gonna lie, like, hey, it's a huge you know, puberty is a huge hormonal shift for for humans, you know? And so that stuff is real and it's happening, and you know, he's on a physical level, like outgrowing pants like in three months is like, all right, well, we'll get rid of that. Last four pairs of pants we just got, you can get some more. So our friends are getting some good, some sweet hand-me-downs. But you know, it's um it's pretty cool because he's he's doing some new things. You know, one thing that that's interesting to grow, to watch your child grow and grow with them too, is that I I find that I have certain memories that come up of my own life from these different life stages, different developmental stages and stuff. So now I'm entering this whole new crop of of memories that it's almost like looking through a photo album where until you see the picture, memory is I don't have access to it. And then I go, oh yeah, you know, that kind of stuff. So this new stage of things are happening. He's starting to drive and uh, you know, just learning to drive a car. He's also, by the way, like before he's even been on the highway, on the road in a car, he's flying, he's learning to fly airplanes. So white, white, white, yeah. Yeah, I know. There's this unique program in our community. And uh, it's it's mentored, it's held really well, and it's a youth aero program. And uh they teach, they teach youth, boys and girls, how to like maintain aircraft, how to work on things, paint them, repair them, do oil change, everything. And then they also have a ground school, and so they teach them about aerodynamics and all sorts of what you need to know to navigate and and um and fly. And then they once a week they get taken up with a with a flight instructor and they they fly. They they have their hands on the controls. And so um, he's been doing that for I think two years, about maybe two or three years now.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

That's freaking cool. Like also, it just made me think you don't have a road to the island you live on. You just have a hell you have a landing pad. So that's yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:35

No, that remote. No, we got a bridge.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

No, okay, that's good. That's good. You do have internet there, so I'm assumed it wasn't that remote.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

Yeah, I mean, we definitely have an alternative little scene going on here. But but what I'll say is like, you know, when we think of a 15-year-old or even a 14-year-old, we don't think of them as mature enough to fly an airplane, right? Like that's that's a stereotype or a generalization we can make. And hey, I'm not saying it's it's for everybody, right? Like there's there's different kids, people are different. We're all different, you know. But when when people talk about, you know, teenagers and stuff, I think that I think that teenagers in general get a bad reputation. And um, and I don't think it's fair. I don't think it's fair to them. And so I work with a lot of a lot of kids, a lot of youth of different ages. And so I've met some really rad, some awesome teenagers who are doing cool stuff, musically artists, you know, people who are doing programs like this, kids who sail. You know, I live in a big sailing community.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

Yeah, that's cool.

SPEAKER_02 16:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

That's that's awesome. I think I I've never been one with any of my kids. I I have three kids. So I have a 10-year-old daughter, eight-year-old daughter, and four-year-old son. I always want to talk to them like they're adults or like that they can comprehend what I'm saying. Like, um, I think you always try to figure out to like what's their ability to comprehend. You change your messaging to like you you tell them a story, whatever, in a way in which they can conceptualize it, of course. How I talk to a 10-year-old and four-year-old is going to be different just based on brain development. But like, I think I'll be fascinated to know what I'm like whenever my kids are all teenagers because I hope I still talk to them like, hey, I know you're smart and I know that you understand this stuff. So let's talk about this, as opposed to constantly shielding, constantly hiding, and assuming that by protecting them, I'm allowing them to grow. I think that balance is also how do you protect your kid from the world, but also expose them to the world is um one that I don't know if anyone ever feels like they do correctly.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

Yeah, I mean, and that's up to your family culture. And you know, when we're when we're in this parenting role and we're fathers and, you know, in partnership or wherever, we're raising our kids, you know, we get to, we get to create that culture in our family. And so, you know, sometimes, I mean, I remember, um I remember, don't remember as a kid. I was like, I was as a teenager when I was really mad at my parents. And I was like, when I'm a parent, I'm never gonna do these whatever things. I have no idea what they are. I wish I took notes on my anger, you know.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

True, yes.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

But I remember very clearly having that thought when I was just really, really frustrated and like, you know, where my parents were probably setting limits that I didn't agree with. So yeah, we get to, we get to kind of make it up. And I don't think that there's wrong answers when, you know, any wrong way to do it. I think we're all doing our best. I mean, you know, if you're doing your best and we make mistakes, you know. I mean, I think that my son is like, he, he is probably the easiest, he is the easiest person on the planet for me to apologize to, you know, when I do make a mistake to acknowledge, because it's like I want to model what that's like. I don't want to model, well, here we are. I mean, this is this is perfect. We're on the imperfect, imperfect dads. It's like, dude, we're gonna make mistakes.

SPEAKER_03 18:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:50

And it's I don't care about the mistakes. It's like how we recover from them, how we respond to the mistakes, or if someone else, if I feel someone has done me wrong or whatever, it's like, all right, how are we gonna repair this and restore our connection rather than like I'm gonna live a perfect life or I'm gonna parent perfectly and never make a single mistake and I'll have the perfect kid and it'll be a fairy tale.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

Yeah, pretty much. And I think like to me, what that teaches your kid is a lot of humanity because I I think you will that conflict, that dissonance is something you will experience for the rest of your life of like, hey, this person didn't follow through, I didn't follow through, and now how do we repair it? I think is probably really a great way to put it. And teaching someone like, hey, people are gonna make mistakes, and community is how you guys figure out how to repair it together. It's like to that's like that's real life. That's that's better than hey, how about you double down? How about you double down on your answer? How about you double down on your anger? It's like, no, that's not gonna lead to community. And I I think it's very easy to isolate yourself, build your own world, and build your own reality. And if I can not and if I am exhibiting that from my kids, I don't that's not the type of dad I want to be of create your world, create your reality, live in it. And it's like, but other people are there too, include them, be part of community, all this stuff.

SPEAKER_02 20:05

Yeah. It's a tricky job, man. And there's no, there's no manual, there's no training, you know, there's very few models of like who's doing well. Um, you know, ask any any boy or man about their dad, and you'll you'll get you'll get some juicy story, you know. So it's a it's a pretty loaded, you know, archetypal kind of relationship um that we're in, you know.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Was it so you you you just said it is like an emphasis of yours to make sure to apologize and have that honest of a conversation with your son. What did that was that hard for you to get into that mindset? Because that's different than what like a lot of us were raised with. A lot of us were raised with dads who never apologized, said, do it my way or else and stuff like that. I think people our age are much more willing to be like that wasn't the right move, but this recalibrate. Was it natural for you to get into a stance of, oh, hey, I didn't do that right. This, let's talk about it, let's readjust.

SPEAKER_02 21:02

No, it wasn't hard because I, you know, you know, I just want to be, I just again, I just want to model but what it's like to be, you know, and I I don't want to sound like I do it right all the time, you know. But I want to be the best model I can for my son so that he grows up to be a good man, you know? That's that's like my main job right now. And so, so that's one way that I want to do that is to just, you know, try to model those things, even if if it's a little hard or it's awkward or whatever. But it's it's usually not, you know, with him. With other people, it can be, you know, it's like, well, I should do this. And so, you know, then I, you know, might have to even preload the the conversation like, like, like, what am I gonna what am I gonna acknowledge and how am I gonna do this? You know, like I have to think it rather than just feel it and be like, man, you know. Yeah. So it's a really special relationship. And I think that, you know, I we are probably I mean, just from from talking with you for, you know. 20 minutes or whatever. You know, we're part of this new generation of dads. And it's really cool to see fathers. My day job is writing and performing for kids and families. And so, you know, it's usually moms and their kids there. That's kind of the biggest group, you know. But there's a lot of dads who show up. And sometimes I call out the dads, like, hey, if you're dad, raise your hand, you know. And, you know, there's always some dads there. So seeing fathers like carrying their babies, you know, either with the baby carrier or on their shoulders or just having that physical connection between father and the child. I think that's really huge. And I think the father's role is really underrated in our in our culture, you know. Check this out. I mean, yeah, I have this. I just finished this book last night. Hopefully, my text is my camera's not reversed. Does that read okay? Or is it reverse?

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Of boys and men. Is that what it says? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

It's called Boys and Men. Is my text backwards or something? Sorry about that. No, I can read okay. It's a cool book. Um, it's called The Boys and Of Boys and Men by Richard Reeves. And he just makes the case statistically for like why it's hard for boys, you know, to grow up in today's age, you know. But I like to see that new culture and just be a part of it and shaping, like, hey, like, it doesn't have to be how it was when we were kids. And um, you know, and so yeah, like talk to a lot of, you know, young men who are who who either want to be a dad or are thinking about it or afraid to be fathers, you know. And um, you know, some of them I'm like, you should be a dad because you're you're an amazing person. And like you get to spend time with this and help shape this human and help make the world better. Sounds idealistic, but that's how it works. Yeah. Yeah. You know, culture.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Yes. I I think uh around culture also. I think like um, for the longest time, I think what was told of men was like how you show your love the best is uh what job you work, what financial gains that you can create, basically. Um also honestly, there's a lot of stability that can come from what money you have. Like there's a lot of benefit of having a lot of money. I I'm not gonna act like that's not true. I would like to think that the conversation that's being held now is what other ways can my love show itself? What other ways can my love be present, and what ways can that love be welcomed? Because even something as simple as like changing a diaper. Generations ago, men never changed diaper. Men's didn't hold their kids as much. They didn't do skin to skin. I did skin to skin with all three of my kids. Most dads I know did skin to skin with their newborns. To be like, my physical presence, my physical existence, my tone of voice is a way I can show and teach you love. And I think watching that definition be changed is one of my favorite things. To watch men realize that their love has a purpose and has and has beauty to it is like it excites me on a way that I I feel like the English language fails.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

Yeah. No, that's beautiful. I think you did say well, and it's it's changing and it's you know, it's it's a good thing. It's a good thing. Yeah, and it's it's sometimes sad, or I've been disappointed sometimes with elders. My male elders in my life when they can't open up or something like that. Of course. And then I realize, okay, well, there's like a cultural, like a historic relativity we have to consider because they were raised at a different time, you know. And like, you know, I didn't have this when I was a kid, but my dad talks about like his his parents saying things like, you know, children are to be seen and not heard, you know, things like that.

SPEAKER_00 25:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:35

Some of these old idioms and stuff that um yeah, that our fathers were raised by. And so, um, yeah. So it's there's there's some sadness there for me too, that like, you know, that they didn't get to experience some of this stuff with, you know, with their with their children and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 25:53

Yeah. And I think like for for that example, I think is a really fascinating one because like I bet your dad I'm gonna speak for him. He may have not known how to change that reality for himself, but he sure as hell made sure to change it for you. So he made sure so he made sure he opened the door for you to make sure to walk into the room in which that wasn't reality. That doesn't mean that he knew how to go through that door himself. And I find that to be a fascinating testament of love also. Of I know you, I don't, I would never want you to feel the way that I felt, but also that doesn't mean I'm not I I still he your dad still carries that though. And to watch him change that generational, whatever you want to call it, is like so cool. And I feel like should be honored or talked about, you know.

SPEAKER_02 26:33

Yeah. No, definitely. My father was he was he was he is, he's still alive, fortunately. You know, I could still call him and uh Yeah. And I do call him. I'm like, hey dad, I need to talk to you about this, you know? And uh and it's really it's really beautiful to have that at this point in my life. But he he gave me a great childhood, you know. My parents gave me a great and magical childhood, and I think that that's one reason why I um I I enjoy children. I think that, you know, our life story and our experiences um definitely inform you know our path and how our gifts unfold in our in our lives. My childhood was magical, you know. I remember so many beautiful things, magical things through, you know, through the the frosted glass of memory that you can see, not see. Um and yeah, my dad gave a lot of time. He he worked really hard for his at a job. He was um athletic director at a at a school. Cool, yeah. So he's a big sports guy, and so he was, you know, he introduced me to sports and he, you know, he drove, I didn't realize this at the time. I actually wrote my dad a letter a couple years ago, and I was just like, thank you. Yeah. I made like a you it took me a long time to write this letter, but you know, I wrote just thank you for all this stuff. And I just tried to name it, you know, try to be very specific and like uh, you know, because I just wanted I wanted him to hear that. And I I don't feel like we do that as kids. And now in my role, it's like I I try to teach my son and his friends, you know, to be like, hey, what do you say when someone gives you a ride somewhere, you know? What do you say when somebody buys you some pizza or whatever it is, you know? Yeah. Thank you. You know, I'm like, I'm not just doing it so I can be thanked. I'm like, I want you to learn this stuff, you know. Because it took me a long time to learn it. Um yeah, I think that our dad, the way that, you know, our relationship with our own dads, I don't know, does it in does it inform your the way that you are in your life, you know, how you are a dad?

SPEAKER_01 28:35

Yep. Absolutely does. Yeah. And I think like, as you were hinting at earlier, also, like there's a fascination of like your kid gets older, they do learn how to drive and stuff like that. And it does make you be like, what was my driving experience like with my dad? What was like, and then it's like another way for you to reconnect with your dad as well. And like, um, I have three kids, um, I'm the youngest three. So like there's similarities of that. If whenever I talk to my parents, it is kind of like, cause you guys did this. What was your experience? Like it, I think it can open up doors to curiosity about your parents' experience. And I hope for I hope that people have a good enough that the relationship that's healthy enough in which they can look at their parents and be like, hey, you did this too. What was it like for you? Like, devoid of like, I'm the end product of what happened. Like, what was that like for you? And like, how was how did you handle your stress? How did you handle your your life basically? Because we're we're doing a similar thing, but in very different worlds.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:30

It's a good good opportunity to to reflect and grow, change, make some changes.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

Yep. Uh, tell me about like kids music. How'd you get involved with kids' music? Or what made you, besides like, well, you kind of hinted at a little bit, what made you want to start doing kids music?

SPEAKER_02 29:45

Well, it was a true accident. When we're little kids, they're like, they ask you, what do you want to be when you grow up? You know, like that was a big thing when I was a kid in the 80s. And it was like, what do I want to be? I want to be a some of my responses. My my mom told me she's like, when when she asked me that, I said, I wanted to be a cow one day. Okay, yeah. Did you succeed? Did you ever become a cow? I love milk and cheese, but no, I'm not a cow. Another time I said I want to be a rock, which you know, I don't remember these things, but that's pretty zen answer, you know, kind of a Buddhist response for for three-year-old. But, you know, it's like astronaut, fireman, things like that. Yeah. I did not, you know, think I was gonna grow up and be a musician by any means. I always liked playing music. You know, when I was a teenager, I started playing music and haven't stopped. Um I just kind of followed my path, really. I was playing playing in the I I write songs. I love songs. That's kind of what what I've always done. When I first started playing guitar, I started writing songs, and I don't really know why. Um I think some of my friends, like I I had a still have this great group of guys that I played music with, and we we're still they're hilarious. You know, they we we keep each other laughing over a text thread these days. That's awesome. I actually had a dream about them last night. Oh my gosh. We were sitting that's fun. Yeah. We were setting up amps. One of my friends, Mike, had these huge amps. I was like, dude, these are enormous. Someone pulled out a mic stand, and it was like a big rusty tripod. Sure.

SPEAKER_03 31:19

Yeah, why not?

SPEAKER_02 31:21

Why not? Anyway, when what I'm trying to say is I've always loved songs and I wrote them, and then I I was performing them in a band and we'd do some shows. The band was the harmonica bog. It still is. But I was doing kind of grown-up music. And on this little island where I live, and we have a big garden, and so I needed to, I was getting a job done. So I walked to my neighbor's house and I asked to borrow a tool to do this job. And she said, Oh, Keith, I'm having tea with a neighbor. Come on in, you know. And I was like, in my mind, I'm going, man, I just want to get the rake. I want to go home and get this job. So I come in, I sit down. You want a cup of tea? Okay, sure. I'll have some tea. And um, I was having tea suddenly with three women, and one of them was a director of a preschool. And she said, Oh, I just had a, I hear you're a musician. I just had a cancellation. You want to come do this gig? And um she's like, I'll pay you. And I'm like, How much? Yeah, hold on. And um so it was, you know, this was in 2005, and so I came home and I with my rake, and I told my with my borrowed rake, and I told my partner, my wife, who was performing with me at the time, I said, Hey, we gotta, we got a show. We gotta go to this preschool. And so we we made this show, and um, it was a 60-minute show. We didn't know what we're doing, but we just created some cool stuff. She brought dance, hula hoop, you know, guitar. I was um I have some non-Western music, you know. So I brought like a embira, like thumb piano from from Shona Zimbabwe. I brought didri do. So we just like put together this thing, and at the end of the 60 minutes, this, you know, we said goodbye and shook hands and stuff, and the director came up. She said, That was amazing. You guys were nobody, the kids have never sat still, you know, for 60 minutes. And we were like, we were like, really? Like, we don't know what we're doing. Yeah. We're just, we're just being us and trying to create something fun and engaging. And so that's where this idea, kind of a light bulb or whatever that expression is, you know, illuminated. I'm horrible with idioms. I prefer to make up my own. But there you go. I like it. This um, we're like, oh, we could actually, this could be something. And so at that point, we started building this kid show and then needed a kids album. So I was like, all right, what songs do I have? Keith with the Teeth was one of them, you know. Um another one with Spiders in My Breakfast, which was not written intending to be a kid song, but it is. So anyway, so that's how it happened. It was an accident, you know. And then, and I love that about my life is, you know, I'm like, okay, here's what I'm gonna do. And it's like, no, that's not what's gonna happen. You know, you're gonna do something else. And so just being being able to listen to what you're being asked to do by by the world or people around you, and um, you know, and just embracing that, I think that's that's kind of been my path.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

Yeah. Yeah. And I think like honestly, that's how it normally works is like, how does anyone end up in the career they end up in? Most people, it's like someone started paying me to do this, someone thought I might be good at this, and I said yes, and now I'm here. I think like whenever I was in college, I was like, oh, here's my path, here's my career, here's what I get to. And now, like, yeah, why how do you end up my kids? And he's like, someone asked you to do it once and you thought it was fun. And then you kept saying yes to things and exploring it, and here you are now, and it's it's your career.

SPEAKER_02 34:43

Yeah, yeah. And it makes so much sense to hear you say that. I'm like, oh yeah, of course, Devin, right. Like things just happen. But like when we're kids, and you know, I believe that we are constantly learning, you know, again, people, what do you want to be when you grow up? It's like, oh yeah, well, I want to be an astronaut or whatever. Well, guess what? There's only like 10 astronauts right now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:01

Yeah. But some people do pick a path and follow it, you know, especially like where you go to these higher levels of education, you know, law and and doctoral type stuff. But I think, yeah, probably for most of us, it's like, here I am, you know, I'm in this line of work. Here's what my life looks like right now. And sometimes we can romanticize, you know, artists or musicians or people that, you know, are in the public eye, who we, you know, and it's like, we're no different. We're just people who are who have like kind of like just floated through life, and and here I am. Yep. I think hopefully you're happy with your life, you know.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

Hopefully, right, yeah, or find enjoying it. I think that was uh Justin Roberts' story also was yeah, he was like working at a pre-K, had recorded some songs that were kid focused, and one of his friends were like, Oh, you got to record these. So then he did. And now here he is 20 years later, still recording kids' music, but it's just because he was living his life, doing some stuff, being creative, being curious. And someone said, I think people would actually really love this if you shared this. And like, once again, just gonna overemphasize community and the importance of it. You need you need people in your life to look at you and be like, hey, you're doing some beautiful things here, and I want to make sure you're sharing it. And that's yeah, and that's why I think well, that's why I'm trying to emphasize to my kids so much like, hey, be around community, be around people, because you don't know how someone might see into your life in a way that then projects you into who you're supposed to be.

SPEAKER_02 36:26

Right. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's real. And I I love what Justin does. Like, yeah, I love his songs. He's one of my favorite kids songwriters. Yeah. I'm a fan. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:37

What's like something, what's what's like one of your favorite things about like performing for kids? Like that energy is so unique and so different than like performing for adults. What's one thing that like you feel like is unique to the experience of performing for children?

SPEAKER_02 36:50

I mean, kids are open and ready to have a good time.

SPEAKER_00 36:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:56

You know, if you're in more of like a 21 and up environment, like a bar, club or something like that, people are there. Usually, I mean, there's definitely venues where it's a music venue, and I I appreciate that. But people are there, they've taken time to get dressed up, you know. Some of them are there to like get phone numbers and like, you know, flirt and stuff like that, right? So there's different needs sometimes, but with kids, it's like the need is in the moment, they're very present and they're just open and ready, they're ready for a good time. If I'm like, you know, like let's everybody come into this little spot on the carpet and let's jump and try and bump our head on a cloud, you know, they're just like, man, and like, you know what I mean? Like, like they just go for it and they're like, this is great. And then you say, stop, and they just like stop. You know, and so it's like it's very playful. And so I really love stepping back into that world and being, I mean, I don't think of myself as a pie piper, but I have this, I have an instrument in my hand, and so that is something that will get attention, you know. If you ever do you play music at all? Do you play music?

SPEAKER_01 38:03

I do, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I've got, let's see, do I have the guitar back there still? Oh, yeah, I see guitar. Yeah, yeah. I have I play guitar, some mandolin, some bass, and I can fake uh piano as well.

SPEAKER_02 38:15

Nice. You read from a fake book?

SPEAKER_01 38:17

Yeah, yeah. It's uh I've just listened to a lot of Deathcap for Cutie, and they have the simplest piano parts ever. So that's mostly what I'm playing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:24

Yeah, I love I love Ben Gibbard and his songs too. Yep. But like, well, you know, like you probably you probably plucked an instrument for like one of your babies, right? And they they respond to the sound. And so when we fill the room with sound, it really perks up people's ears. Um, yesterday I was doing an unplugged, I do a monthly thing in my hometown, unplugged, and it's it's really fun. It's very improvised and loose and yeah, super, super playful. And so I was just tuning up my in I'm just tuning up my instruments, and you know, I mean, literally like plucking a two strings, like ding ding, you know. And like I see the kids look up, you know, and it's still 15 minutes before I gonna start, you know. But music fills the spaces, you know, and so people really respond. So it's just really fun to step into that world, to be playful with them and to make stuff up. You know, one thing that that I do at at some of my shows when the audience is close enough, if I'm on a stage and there's, you know, monitors and things like that going on where you're separated, it's harder to do. But I always like to be on the same level as the as the all ages audiences because we can get closer and they can see my my pedal board and what I'm doing with my loops and stuff. And some of them get curious about that. But so I like to ask questions of the kids, either ask them like ridiculous questions or just something really normal, you know, like what rhymes with four, you know? And then we just start responding and and creating in the moment, like improvising lyrics. Yesterday, my closing tune was a Beatles song. I played Yellow Submarine, and so I was like, what color should the submarine be? You know, and they're like purple. And it's like, we all live in a purple, you know. Yeah, they're just ready to go, they're primed and ready, they're they're not too cool yet, you know? So it's really fun.

SPEAKER_01 40:16

Yeah, that is. I saw I saw, I don't know if you've ever listened to Frank Turner before, but he's like he's very like when you go see him, he's very like communal, everyone sings songs and stuff. And like he did one song, and like at the it was like the first song was on court, and he was like, All right, guys, I'm gonna ask all of you to jump for this bridge. And I know some of you think you're too cool, I know some of you don't want to do it, but I've just been running around on the stage for 90 minutes, and I just want you to jump for one minute only. And you guys are gonna love it, it's gonna be great. And if you think you're too cool for it, I think the words he said were, if you think you're too cool to do this, you're at my show right now on a Wednesday night. You probably aren't that cool of a person anyway. So come on, let's start jumping, let's do it. But like you don't have to work that hard to get like I've played uh guitar for my son's like pre-K class before. And yeah, like you pulled out that guitar and everyone's just like, What is this? Like, you don't, it doesn't take much to impress. And like the simplicity of a child's interest is hard to be reminded of. Because I'm trying to think of like what's something impressive I can play. And they just want to hear, like, even a palm-muted strum. They're like, Whoa, what did you you tune your guitar? And yeah, they're like, Whoa, how do you do this? So, like to go from my mind, which is like over analytical, wants like wants purpose and meaning to everything, just to be like, ah, did you make a noise?

SPEAKER_02 41:32

That's fucking exactly. You made a noise. Wow. Yeah. And I mean, the other level of it that and I think kids' music can get a bad, a bad reputation sometimes because people who aren't familiar with it, if you haven't listened to like some newer kids' music in the last 10 or 15 years or something, you know, if if you grew up with I don't want to uh talk trash about anybody because I respect I respect my elders, you know, but it's just changed. The culture of of music has kids' music has changed, just like the culture of children's literature, you know, picture books has changed. It's like a golden era. It's literally there's something for everybody, whatever you like. If you're into rock, hip-hop, folk, whatever you're into, there's something there for you.

SPEAKER_01 42:19

I do think that like um the amount of stories that are told through children's music now is greater than it used to be. I think there's more depth to it. I think there's like, I think, yeah, because whenever I was a kid, I hated kids' music, but also I was an elitist punk and still am. Um, but like, yeah, like the the amount of like storytelling that like Justin Roberts has an easy example that he does, like on his last album, um Fire Breathing Dragon, about talking about like a two-year-old, and whenever he gets mad and doesn't get his way, his brother's like, oh, he's a fire breathing dragon. And then his mom is like, no, this is just hurt and sadness that he doesn't know how to express. So like be more kind to your brother. And like that whole story is accurate, honest, and from a child's point of view, and also shows like a response, shows a parent who's present enough to help their guide their child through what their other child is feeling. And I'm like, that's a freaking good story. Like that's a that's a solid story of existence.

SPEAKER_02 43:11

Yeah, exactly. And like, and that's the story level of it, right? The lyrical, the literal message of the story as it unfolds in a linear way, right? And then, you know, like just to use Justin Roberts as as an example, like the music, his band sounds great, you know, they have cool arrangements. He has, you know, he writes songs with bridges, he writes songs with cool endings and cool musical syncopations and stuff. And so it's it's like, you know, the um adult aesthetics, you know, applied, you know, it's like it's not just because it's kids' music, we're not gonna cut corners and just play some some junk. We're trying to I think a lot of us are trying to like like share quality music, you know, well written songs, well, well played, you know. Ensembles and stuff, you know. Like the drummer's good, you know. Yeah. Yeah. I think that that sometimes kids' music gets dismissed, you know, especially by people who haven't really stepped in and checked it out. Like there's some really cool stuff. There's some really cool artists out there. And it's super diverse, man. It's it's crazy diverse.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

Yeah. It is. How I end every episode is I ask every guest a series of five questions. So the first question is what's like, did you have any backup names for your son? Did you have any names that you almost named him?

SPEAKER_02 44:32

We were like, we thought that, well, we didn't know if we were having a boy or girl. So we we kind of kept it the old style mystery. And so like I what I remember is we had this sound, like this Z sound, zzzz, you know, and like I really liked that sound. And like I would go up to my wife's belly and these, you know, I don't know, it's kind of weird, but so like we were looking for these Z sounds like Ziggy and Azalea and things like that. And yeah, but then when he was born, he did not, he wasn't breathing right away. And so the midwife said, She said, talk to him, you know, he knows your voices. Talk to him.

SPEAKER_03 45:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:07

And so I just said, that's when I said, at that point, I had known that I had a son for about 20 seconds, you know. And so I said, Montana, Montana, you know, you gotta breathe. Wake up. I just said that name. That was one of the names that we had. Yeah. And it just came out. And I was like, okay, I just named our son. Sorry. You know, my bad. I didn't I didn't want to make that. We're cool with this, right? But he took his breath and um, and he was like, But the funny thing is, you know, his name is Montana Apgar. Monta Montana is that root of my middle name, Monta. Um, so we kind of took that route. We figured, hey, since my name and my dad's name were tweaked and not exactly so he's named after his great grandfather, but we we twisted, we twisted it again.

SPEAKER_01 45:52

That's awesome. That's so cool. Next question. Do you have like a favorite TV movie or like book dad? Or like if whenever I say that, a favorite implies that you like them. Whenever I say that, is there like a father figure that's in like culture that you think of specifically?

SPEAKER_02 46:07

Yeah. You know, I don't I don't watch a lot of television and and movies and things like that. Yeah. I do like to read, I've been reading more nonfiction recently. But you know who comes to mind is um, you know who I'm gonna go with is is Mando, Mandalorian. Yeah, totally, yeah. You know, he he like comes into caring for Baby Yoda for Grogu, you know?

SPEAKER_03 46:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:33

And he does some really beautiful things, you know. I mean, he he risks all his life and you know, multiple times. He saves he saves it multiple times in very dramatic Hollywood ways. But he also, you know, he takes he has this, so Mandalorian, he has this, this, his creed, his like religion is basically like you can't he can't show his face to another human, to not human, to another living creature. And so he doesn't do that through the whole series. But then at the end, when he's saying goodbye to shoot him, I'm the spoiler alert.

SPEAKER_01 47:08

No, how dare you feel a show that's been out for years.

SPEAKER_02 47:12

All right, thanks, dude. So he takes off his helmet to connect with with Baby Yoda before they go. And it's like a really that's a really sweet moment where he he gives up his like his philosophy and his view to connect with with this, you know, a foster child or a son. I mean, it's basically a a child, you know? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:33

And like I love I also love that in shows, whenever if they've done that type of world building where like you know what Mando's like value system is, basically. And and then to watch him basically go against what his normal is for the sake of giving is just or to um reveal himself for him to see the importance of revealing a part of himself he shuts off to the rest of the world to someone that he loves. It's like whenever you watch that journey, because like, yeah, that's like a two or three-year journey of for him to be like, you get to know this side of me. It's like that is that's beautiful, and that's good character work. Good job, guys.

SPEAKER_02 48:08

Yeah, yeah, it's pretty cool. It's a pretty cool, untraditional dad, and it's like an alternative family model, you know, which I absolutely support, you know?

SPEAKER_01 48:16

Yeah. Um, next question what's like a go-to replacement curse word for you? Like, what do you say instead of saying the bad word?

SPEAKER_02 48:25

Well, um, I guess uh out myself. Off mic, I definitely can drop some bombs. No, I'm a New Yorker, so it's pretty good. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Of our culture, you know, you know, dang is a good one. I like dang. You know, fiddlesticks is kind of funny. I think the more ridiculous you can get is the better. Yeah. You know, and making making things up, like if you put pants after anything, I think it's kind of funny, you know, like uh banana pants or yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:57

Gives the word a functional purpose, in which then you are immediately like, wait, what do a pair of waffle pants look like? Would they be edible waffle pants or would they just be in the shape of waffle pants? Would they be textured like waffles? Could I put would they come back? I'm with I I think like a good replacement curse word should break you out of your anger, should break like, should make you all everyone like reset and be like, what did you just say? Is my is my hope. But also sometimes when you're mad, you're just mad.

SPEAKER_02 49:24

Yeah. No, it comes up. And you know, like curse words have power, you know, they have those really strong consonant sounds. It's like I'm gonna scan them in my mind. But I think like the vowel sounds are short. So, like a long vowel sound, as a lyricist, you know, we think about this stuff. We're like, Yeah, yeah. What are what are like the strong syllables and things like that? Like long vowels, they're easy to rhyme and stuff, but the short vowel vowels, they they put the focus elsewhere. And so we have like these blended consonants that are really the curse words are really there's a lot of power, you know. Yeah. And then they get that other level of power because they're taboo. You know, everyone says, Oh, you can't say that. So that's another secret level. So that's right.

SPEAKER_01 50:06

It's tricky to replace them to find the appropriate replacement. Next question. What's like one of your favorite activities to do with your son or like toy, anything like that? Soccer. Yeah. I'm wearing this soccer, yeah, big soccer fan. Yeah. Yeah. What do you what jersey you got on there? I have so I lived in Nashville for 18 years, so I've got a Nashville there, MLS team. Mostly I gravitate towards either Liverpool or Germany's national team.

SPEAKER_02 50:29

All right.

SPEAKER_00 50:30

Cool. Um, I like Man City. For how long? About three years, yep.

SPEAKER_02 50:37

Come on.

SPEAKER_00 50:38

Yeah, let's do it.

SPEAKER_02 50:39

No, I haven't watched, I don't watch a lot of TV and stuff. Like, I literally live in the woods and stuff, and so you know, but yeah, I I definitely love Holland. I mean, come on, like Yeah, I mean he's insane. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 50:52

I I loved, I mean, I only hate Man City because of the season in which they got 100 points in the Premier League and Liverpool got like 97 or 99. And like both of them broke records that year, but Man City won because they broke it just a little bit more. Like, yeah, Kevin De Bruina is phenomenal, Doku is phenomenal, Pep is phenomenal. Like, it's one of those teams where you watch them and you're like, you're just so damn good, it makes me mad, is kind of how I feel.

SPEAKER_02 51:16

It's amazing to watch these guys. They're just magicians, and soccer's changed so much since I was a kid, you know. And uh, you know, like just the the footwork and even the lineups, the way the teams line up. Like, there's like, you know, I talked to, you know, you look at in the before the game and how the teams are lining up, you're like, whoa, like a three, two, one, four. You know, it's just like this thing, man. Like, so yeah, I think soccer's a great way to connect with, you know, any anybody really, but especially with with boys, like yeah, it's it's a good way to it's a good time to chat, you know, it's a good time to connect where it's like, you know, you could talk about different things, you know, you're you're passing the ball, so it's like, you know, we're gonna we're gonna connect, pass back and forth. I'm gonna like give you a good pass, or you know, sometimes we're like, oh, we're gonna put it in the in the air so we can trap the ball, so we can like work on stuff together and just and talk informally about stuff. It's a good time that that my son and I talk, and then we go up and like do some one-on-ones, you know. That's cool. And he tries to beat me, and he we have a little thing where like we just go back and forth, and like as long as you keep beating the person, you have possession, you know, and so back and forth. And um, yeah, and so it's it's really cool to grow up with a kid, and now my son's 15, you know, he he ran like a six minute something mile, you know. Like like he's he's faster than me, he's strong, he's like, you know, I'm really proud of him for like working on something like regularly and going back to it and working on improving. And yeah, and it's a really it's a really beautiful way to um to stay connected with my son and also a bunch of his friends and stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:56

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 52:57

And then last question for you what's like if you had to think of like go-to parenting advice to give someone, like what would like your go-to sentiment advice give be to tell someone?

SPEAKER_02 53:07

Yeah, well, I think with new with new dads, I would say kind of what you what you you mentioned earlier with um you call it skin to skin. I didn't I've never that's not, but when I was before I was um before my son was born, a father said that to me. He said, take your shirt off and hold the baby on your chest, you know. And he was like, you know, moms get this contact all the time, you know, just life and breastfeeding and stuff, right? And so I think that that was huge, a huge experience for me, you know.

SPEAKER_00 53:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:41

Also, to be to be honest, like a little confusing because the only time I'd really had skin to skin contact was in a romantic manner, you know.

SPEAKER_00 53:50

It's a different intimacy, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:52

Yeah, and so now it's like a very different kind of love. Yeah, but you know, so just feeling that closeness, I think that's really beautiful. So I I definitely have passed that on to other other dads. Um, you know, and then another another one that comes to mind is um what book is this from? I think it's from a book called Playful Parenting, which is a pretty cool book to look up. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I have it right. I haven't read it in a while, but the the generalization is um boys need connection, girls need empowerment. Cool, yeah. And I feel like that that's something that's it's a give and take. I mean, it goes both ways. It's not just boys need this and girls need that.

SPEAKER_00 54:36

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:36

I think kids, you know, kids need connection and empowerment, you know, and so but it's a good, it's a good way to look to kind of assess a child, like when when, you know, with with your own kids, you know, you get real close, close look at them. But when, you know, when I'm stepping into a teaching environment, like last week, two weeks ago, I was songwriting with 30 teenagers, you know. And so different kids have different needs, you know, and so some of them need like a little boost. And then some of them, you know, and and it typically tends to be the teenage boys, they just need a little bit of that uh connection, you know, like they already know like they can do something, you know. So just giving them that that connection, you know, finding ways to do that.

SPEAKER_01 55:20

Yeah, that's awesome. And then um, last thing for you is just a moment for like self-promotion. So if you want to find your music, website, Instagram, anything like that.

SPEAKER_02 55:28

Cool. Yeah, you can find uh me on the socials at harmonica pocket and I have a website. And if you want to, you know, if you're a songwriter and you wanna one thing I'm working on right now is create I created a program for songwriters to help songwriters learn music theory and help them use it to write songs. And so I'm working with guitarists and ukulele players on a one-on-one basis. And I have a pretty deep curriculum, it's called Harmony Lab. And um, yeah, so if people want to, you know, kind of explore that possibility, harmonicapocket.com slash songs. And um yeah, I'm really excited about that project. It's um yeah, it's about like writing cool, creative, yeah new work and uh and it's sparked a lot of new stuff in my own in my own writing. So that's awesome. It's working for me.

SPEAKER_01 56:17

That's cool. Sincerely, thank you for taking the time to do this. Thanks for sharing with me your shot thoughts on fatherhood and sharing your journey with me. It means a lot to me.

SPEAKER_02 56:26

Yeah, thanks. Thanks as well. Thanks for what you're doing, putting these voices out there and appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 56:31

Yeah, man, it's um thanks for being one of them. Thanks for being part of it. It sincerely means a lot, and I I take it very seriously.

SPEAKER_02 56:37

Right on. Well, same z's Devin. Nice to meet you.

SPEAKER_01 56:40

Perfect. Nice to meet you too, Keith. See you next time. Thank you so much for listening to the episode. Make sure to follow us on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube at the Imperfect Dads Podcast. And make sure to give us five stars for every listen to us. Music, editing, and production is all done by me. Make sure to tune in on Mondays and most Thursdays for episodes. This podcast is part of the Never at Phase Network. Make sure to go to Never at FaZe Network.com to learn more about it.