Episode 241 | Jon Chase Graphic Designer/Consultant

On this episode we have on artist, designer, consultant Jon Chase.
 
 We talked about his daughter getting into emo/hardcore music, going to shows with kids, going from a  corporate job to self employed, being burnt out, learning mediation rituals, realizing you’re not fun when you’re stressed, his midlife crisis moment, thrifting for books, our shared love of music, former music connections making his kids think he’s a cool dad and how he helps companies as a consultant. 

Also if you want to hook up Jon with some My Chemical Romance tickets this summer, it sounds like his daughter is eager to see them as many times as she can. 

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This podcast is part of the Never A Phase Network, follow them on instagram at @neveraphasenetwork and check out their podcasts like Emo Kids Anonymous  Wasting Time Podcast Certified Fangirl and The Ska Mailman

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:03

Welcome to the Imperfect Dance Podcast. This is your host, Devin. We believe dads care deeply about their family and kids, but they don't always have a space to discuss what their life looks like. Our podcast is a space for dads to discuss the ups and downs of fatherhood and how they feel like they're holding it together, or how they're not. Thank you for joining us for this episode. This podcast is part of the Never A Face Network. Make sure to follow him on Instagram or go to the website NeverAffacedNetwork.com. On this episode, we have on John Chase, who spent his time either doing artwork, art design, or consulting people with their businesses. We talked about his daughter getting into the emo hardcore music scene, going to shows with his kids, going from a corporate job to self-employed, being burnt out, learning meditation rituals, realizing you're not fun when you're stressed, his midlife crisis moment, thrifting for books, our shared love of music, former music connections making his kids think he's a cool dad, and how he helps companies as a consultant. Also, if you want to hook John up with some mic and local romance because this summer, it sounds like his daughter's eager to see them as many times as she can, and you'd help him look like an even cooler dad. Just like one more thing. Oh, my bad. Hey, John, welcome to an episode of The Imperfect Dads. I really appreciate it. Well, thanks for having me. Yeah, man. First, most basic question I usually ask a guest is how many kids you got, ages, all that good stuff. I got two, uh, 15-year-old, and a 13-year-old. Man.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

What's it like to have two teenagers? Uh, very difficult. So I'm a little bit I had kids later in life. All my friends had their kids like I would say, I don't want to say normal, but more traditional timeline. So all my all my friends, their kids are all grown up and they have grandkids. So yeah. So it's a little bit different. So like I I've talked to my friends and they don't remember like what it was like having teenagers because they have adult kids. Yeah. So it's cool. It's uh I'm kind of glad I decided to find the perfect person for me to be with to raise these kids and have them later in life because I don't know if I could have done it when I was younger. Yeah. I mean, I would have figured it out, but I think it would be way harder. I wouldn't have had as much patience as I have now, which is really you have to learn when you have kids. You damn stuff.

SPEAKER_02 2:31

Yeah. I I I had we had our first kid, so I have three kids. I have a 10-year-old, eight-year-old, and four-year-old. And we had our first kid whenever we were 28. And even that, like for our friend group, because we lived in the south at the time, we were late to the game to have kids. So it's always interesting to look at like your ecosystem or your friend group and be like, hey, here's whenever we were ready. And then like, yeah, I have friends whose kids are already in high school and like about to go to college. And I'm like, that's I'm glad that was your phase of life, but that was that was we were not ready at like 25. It's weird that like we got married at 25, we weren't ready to have kids, but by 28 we were, and how like three or four years here and there can make a difference.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

It just shows you where you're at in your life. So if like if you did everything you wanted to do earlier on, then settling down, understanding when you have a family, things do have to change. I mean, some people are like, nah, it's gonna be going out all the time. I'm like, yeah, that's not gonna work out real well. But anyway.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

Well, that that implies to me that you um took fatherhood seriously, or you were like, oh, I want to make sure like I've got the right my partner and I are on the same page, and I'm in a phase of life in which like I'd be willing to not go out to the bar, not go to the concert, and or have that take a pause for a little bit while I focus on family more.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

Well, to be honest, so my wife and I had like when we met, she was going to school, she's a nurse, she's been a nurse for like 19 years now, right? And like, okay, cool, do your thing, I'm doing my thing, which I didn't have a traditional, at this point, I didn't have a traditional career path. So I was the art director for a company called Famous Sergeant Straps, which is Travis Barker's company. Cool. So that's how I got started, and that's when I met her. So I was we were both doing this, and we had a lot of fun when we first got together. So by the time we decided to get married and have kids later on, we kind of did everything we wanted to do. So we kind of just like, okay, we can do this, and it's not a big deal.

SPEAKER_02 4:24

So yeah, yeah, that's cool. It is what about how old were you whenever you decided, like, oh hey, I actually do want to settle down, start a family, and all that.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

When we started having kids, I was 38. Okay, yeah. So it wasn't that bad. But when when my daughter was born, I was 40. So, and all my other friends, like, they were like, Yeah, we've already done all this. So but it wasn't that bad. It wasn't that bad. But it was it was really cool to have, I don't know. I just like it was the right time for us.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

I get it, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:58

But also I can totally relate to your friends being like, if they had teenagers and you're like, oh, do you remember Newborn Face being like, no, I don't. I don't at all.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Like, I bear I'm glad I shot a lot of photos and videos because I don't remember them now being little. I remember the dual stroller and going to like Disneyland and stuff like that and fighting with that. And then and now when I see other people do it, I'm like, don't worry, it won't last that long. Or like car seats or booster seats. But like I have to watch those meals. My wife and I watch the videos and photos all the time because like we don't remember how like little their voices were.

unknown 5:32

No.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

Now they're just in the grunting phase and just walking away and being upset and just being like, whatever, and like what's what's going on? Nothing. And then just that, okay, like, okay. And I have to remember, it was, I mean, it was a long time ago for me, but I still remember like that's just how it is. Like, don't worry, they'll come around. Like in maybe five more years, they'll come around.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

It'll be cool. You watch videos to remind yourself that your kids do know full sentences. That's basically what you do it for.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Yeah, a hundred percent. Because you just like some days you're like, dude, who who are my roommates?

SPEAKER_02 6:03

I don't remember like interviewing these people. But they've been behind on rent also for years now. They're really not pulling their weight here.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Yeah, but it's oh I mean, it's fine. It's just very interesting because I had to do a bunch of stuff when I was growing up, and then and that's just how it was. My wife's a little bit different. Like, she's just concerned about the kids doing really well in school. Yeah. Like they're doing great in school, they're all honor roll kids. Awesome. They're doing great. Like my son's doing college while he's a freshman in high school. Yeah. So he's gonna be, he's going in the medical field like his mom. So it's really cool, but that's all she focuses on. I'm just like, don't be horrible, girl. Like, don't be horrible people when you grow up. That's what we both want. But she focused more on the school. I'm more like being a nice person. Yep. Just be nice, like that too. And they're both really good at that, which is good. But it is definitely this is that moment where like, okay, they're getting older. We can go do stuff now. Yeah. So we do, but it's just we almost have guilt still at this point. We're getting past it. But yeah, it's fun.

SPEAKER_02 7:07

It is. I my I'm also in the same like uh marriage relationship scenario where like my wife did like, I mean, had like a 4.0 in grad school, very accomplished, very career focused, very like, what's the next goal? I'm gonna work, I'm gonna figure out how to get there, and I'm gonna be the best at everything. And I'm like, but were you a good hang? Were you a good vibe? Like, how was that? And she's like, so we need to have both. And I'm like, okay, yeah, cool, cool, cool. So that's good. That's good. Good to remember, good remember. I yeah, but it's but you compliment each other.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

You do, yes. Very much. Yeah, see. That's when you have to find that perfect person you can do that with where you like fit together like a puzzle, it's pretty rare because you see people like that probably ain't gonna work out real well in the long term.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

But anyways, yes, not talking about the other people, but no, of course I yeah, they're like, Oh, whenever your kids leave the house, who are you gonna be? And I'm like, Devin, you are judging the hell out of this couple. You don't know what their small intimate moments are like, calm down, man.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

Yeah, exactly. I will say I am excited about my kids being teenagers in the fact that I can share a lot of their interests and their hobbies, which I'm really kind of because I look back on my parents and they didn't. Yeah. Like my son's heavily into gaming and he's getting into a little bit of music, even though he's older, he's like 15. Yeah, he's like, so but I can because I still play games and then the music, I'm like, okay, he's like into like indie pop, bedroom pop stuff. Okay. And it's pretty rad because I'm like, oh, I like listen to my oh it's not too far off what I listen to sometimes, also. Yeah, which is cool. But my my my youngest, my daughter, is heavily into like she got into hardcore and screamo and emo. Like, yeah, she's like definitely gravitating towards. So we go to shows together. I took her to a hardcore emo, metal core show. And that's cool. And I haven't been to a show like that in I don't know, 30 years. Yeah so I had to just keep, I was all ages. I had to be the oldest person in the room. They didn't want to let me in. The kids at the door like maybe 17, didn't want to let me in. And I just had to like watch for spin kicks. Yep. And she went off to the front of the stage, which is crazy because the kids don't do anything in front of the stage, they just stand in front of the stage, but then everything happens in the middle to the back of the room, which uh maybe I just was never paying attention. But anyway, she was taking photos, enjoying it, just like just make sure you just do this, make sure you Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, don't get a black eye, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Your first show because your mom will probably get bummed if I bring it back. But it was cool, but yeah, so we go to record stores and go digging for stuff. So I that's really fun. So I having that with them is cool because my parents didn't have that with me.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

No, I think, yeah, because my parents, like, I uh I'm one of three kids. I'm the one who played like musical instruments or stuck with playing guitar and stuff. And like my parents listen to a lot of music, but they're not musical. So they more were like, hey, we'll try to get you into the spaces where you can do this, but like we don't know what we're doing here. We're like, yeah, if my kids want to go to a concert, I'm like, I've been going to concerts like consistently for like my entire life. So like if we're there, I know what etiquette is, I know what this all looks like, and I feel like I can be a guide for them and not just drop them off at the show and pick them up like an hour later.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

Which is crazy because there was a lot of kids there. That's what their parents were doing. They didn't even hang out. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure the kids didn't want their parents there. I get it. It's their they built that community. That's for them to go there, and I get it. And but I'm not leaving my 12-year-old first time.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

Not doing that, not doing that, not doing it, not doing it.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

So yeah, so I'm not doing it, but yeah, it's pretty rad. And she's picked up musical and she plays guitar, she just borrowed a bass from the neighbor. So she's exploring that whole scene, which is pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_02 10:45

Yeah, that's cool. What's uh here's a here's a question I like to ask uh married couples. What is like if there is a band that's playing in town, is there any musician or anything like that where you're like, okay, it's worth it to get the sitter, it's worth it to go see this person because you love you and your wife love seeing that artist play so much. Is there any band like that where you're always like, they're in town, we're gonna go see them?

SPEAKER_00 11:07

So my wife and I, we have very varied musical tastes. We find stuff in the middle, which is cool. Yep. Let's see. The last band we saw Crungbin. Okay. Yeah. Hollywood Bowl, real mellow. We saw Foo Fighters. Yeah. And then what else? She loves Glass Animals. I've never really listened to them, but I saw them. That's very, I guess it's European electro pop. I don't even know how to do it. I hate using labels for things, but it's it's definitely something she's into. But she listens to a lot of like top 40 stuff, if that really is the genre anymore. But you know, what would be if it was a radio, you know, that kind of stuff. I think that's pretty much it. We were gonna go see the Sacred Souls recently. I bought tickets, and we end up having the it sound like a good idea to drive to San Diego, which is like two hours away, but when it was a it was like a Thursday night, and then we got to be Thursday morning, we're like, we're like, you know what? Doesn't sound like fun right now, sit in the car. And then sold the tickets and right away, which is actually lucky. So yeah, that's there's a couple, it's a couple, but yeah, we have a lot of very like my daughter and I probably align the most in the music. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:18

Yep, yeah, which is okay. So commonly, like my wife will be like uh I'm a I'm a nighttime person. Like whenever it gets to be like eight or nine p.m. I get like a second wind and happy to stay up late. So I will commonly go to shows by myself. Because my wife is like, yeah, you're gonna go watch some punk rock, pop punk band play. I'm good. I'm gonna stay home with the kids. So you have fun doing that, I'll be over here.

SPEAKER_00 12:40

Which is fine, because there's nothing worse than forcing yourself to go to a show and you have no energy and it's a high energy environment, unless you go to a show and a bunch of like I don't want to say old heads, but older people are more mellow. And you can be like, all right, cool, this is fine.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

Like, you know. Yep. As I get older and listen to more Americana and like Dawes and Jason Isabel, I understand it's because if there's a pit, I'm like, it looks like a lot of work.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

Well, yeah, and you're like, you're also like, do I feel like being sore for the next couple days? I don't. Yeah, see, so it that's fine. That's and I'm also not mad.

unknown 13:14

Right?

SPEAKER_00 13:15

I understand. When I used to go to shows like that, I was mad. But I also would go to like golf shows and like I'll be the only guy not dressed like everybody else. I would just dress like how I normally dress and be hanging out at the shows because my friends are into that stuff. I'm like, all right, cool. So and you don't see people usually get too crazy at a golf show.

SPEAKER_02 13:30

But anyways, no, but it's no I listen to the national a lot. Like the national is my favorite, like sad dad music, and it's always funny. So like you just kind of stand in the crowd and zone out. But like you don't like, you don't like there's one time someone started to try to like move a lot, and I'm like, what are you doing here? That he's singing a song about loneliness and isolation. Like, I'm glad it connects with you, but like, come on, we're here to be sad together, okay?

SPEAKER_00 13:55

Well, I think it's good that you have that outlet where you can go somewhere and zone out because I think that's a lot of people people don't talk about is that man, everyone talks about moms, and moms have a dude, they carry kids, they there's a lot of stuff that we will never know. Correct. But man, sometimes being a dad just sucks. Yeah. It just does. I mean, there's nothing, it's it's that gig, it's like being a parent, it doesn't matter. It's that gig that you get. They don't give you a manual, you kind of have to figure it out. Sometimes other people around you won't even tell you, like help you out. They're like, eh, you just need to find out for yourself. But it's the most rewarding thing at the same time. It can be, but it's also the most soul-crushing thing in the exact same breath.

SPEAKER_02 14:36

Pretty much. What what do you do? Because I think a lot of that is like knowing the moments in which like you hopefully can step away and recenter a little bit. Do you have the ability to do that? Where like if you had a rough day, you know, you feel like you're not getting along with your kids or wife. Do you have like a do you know how to like step away, recenter, then come back refresh? Have you learned that skill yet? Because I sometimes feel like I do, sometimes I don't.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

I have that before I would work in I would have corporate gigs or yeah. I would work for companies or a super high stress and I would have a long commute, and I would use that hour and a half to two hours of driving to get back to do that. But then in the last four years, I left that world and have my own like consulting gig that I do. So I don't I have a like a a one-minute commute to my studio in my behind my garage. So I don't get that. So I have to find that moment to be that way. But I found a new ritual because I'm heavy into rituals. Yeah, that's great. Um, helped me out a lot. And I'm just gonna sidestep this tangent real quick and share this. I just went through my midlife crisis. Yeah, how is it? That was gnarly because I was so mad for like two, three months, like the end of last year, beginning of this year. I was like so just mad about everything. I just didn't know why. I was like, I just and then I just I like snapped on one of the kids over nothing. Yeah, and then we got home. My wife just like kicked me out of the car. It's like, you just need to go get tattooed, or you need to go work on one of your cars, or do whatever you need to do to figure out what's wrong with you right now. Yeah. And I just sat in here for like four hours and I just realized it. I'm like, I'm turning 53 in a couple months. There's not gonna be 53 more years. I'm on the back side of my life. What am I doing? I didn't accomplish anything, but it's crazy because I'm sitting there just going down. Like, I didn't want to get a Corvette and go wear monarchs and go get a girlfriend half my age. I was just realizing like this is it. Like, I'm on the this is the coasting down the hill, hopefully, not just crashing, but like coasting down the hill gracefully. But yeah, right, this was it for me. And I was like, dude, I have to like, and once I like realized that within four hours, after months and months of being so mad, I was like, ah, this is it. No one tells you about this one. It's always a joke. But so I after that four hours, I went and talked about, yeah, this is what's going on. She's like, okay, cool. I was like, all right, cool. So my new ritual is um I get up in the morning, I usually get up around six, and then I go outside and look at sunshine. I don't look at my phone. I like read a little bit of a book. Um, I kind of just enjoy listening to birds. And this is like within like maybe five to ten minutes of my morning, and this totally for me, yeah, had made me transform my life into being like uh just anxiety, like uh all the time. But I think I realized like okay, this is what makes me mellow, and I just try and keep that. Because it's hard when you have life and bills and just crazy stuff happening, and then kids and why like relationship and everything like so. For me now it's like starting slow in the morning and just being happy for what I have, and like when I was really beating myself up saying like I didn't accomplish anything, I got everything I wanted to do. I accomplished all the things I set out to do. I still have more goals, but I was like so down on myself, like nothing, I did nothing. Yeah. But like I have people that I want to I I brought into this world, people I want to be with. That's a huge accomplishment. Not everyone can say that, you know, and appreciate those things.

SPEAKER_02 18:10

Yeah. Do you do meditation at all or is it kind of like a daily meditation is what that sounds like.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

I still do it because I have a really like I said previously, I had a really stressful career for the last 23 years working in different spaces, and I had to learn to like do that meditation, breath work because I would be a complete nightmare basket case. So I have to do that still. But right now I feel like I just do it like, oh, I need to like just like zone in a little bit. I just do it. No, I don't do it so much like I think I'm gonna have a heart attack. Like it's like that, like changing that. Not everyone can have that I shouldn't say like it's not everyone's not in a position in their life when they can have those moments because they have to find that. You have to afford someone, you have to they have to be willing to find that space inside themselves to do that. So yeah, yeah. So yeah, I cool. I do that, I have to just because like everything could be going great, and then once one of the kids walks through the door and just like blows the whole spot up, you're like, ugh. It's just like then something else could happen, you're like this just yeah, I've I've got that under control now. It took me a long time. I'm not gonna lie. There was times when like I was horrible. I was horrible at it. I had to like literally stop to look at it and be like, okay, this you can't be just you can't be miserable your whole life. I know people who are. Me too. And it sucks. It does. And I'm not saying every day is PMA, but I try to do as best I can every day.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

Well, I I think it feels like uh as if someone just like kind of pushes a boulder down a hill and you're standing against the boulder trying to stop it, and you're just like, sometimes like that, it's a lot of inertia to stop. And yeah, like if uh working a corporate job, working a job where like you've got maybe a board of to like respond to, you've got people under you, and you've got all this stimulation constantly and these needs that you need to meet constantly. And in some of those gigs, no matter how you meet the need, no one's freaking happy with you. So if you spend eight or nine hours of your day doing that, then you go home and your kid is also like, hey, did you do this yet? You're like, I can't do anything. And you're like, calm it down. That's not truth. Take a breath, you'll be okay. Figure this out.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Yeah. But some people aren't equipped to it or they're just so gone. They're so burned. Yeah, like, yeah, the world's, it's just over. Every day's a it's the end of the day. Like it's the end of the world.

SPEAKER_02 20:31

So well, also like I know a lot of us grew up with parents where like they would work that high-level stress of a job because they want to provide for their family and they didn't have like a hobby to get lost and they didn't have a way to detach. So they would just come home and be mad because of their day. And I know lots of people where they're like, oh yeah, um, my dad was always angry because he had to deal with so much at work. When he came home, he was was still in that mode. And I'm like, oh, I never want to be that dad to my kid. So if I can avoid that in some way, then I feel like that'd be phenomenal. Yes, my dad was the same way.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

Nothing wrong with it. That's just how it was. And they learned that from their their parents. Like, yep, that's just it. You're just mad and you sit on the couch and just it's like married with children, like real life. Yeah. And I never understood why, like, when friends would come over, he would get so mad. But I guess he was just like one more one more person in this house. Yep. Yep. So and I never exactly, I never wanted to be that way, also. And I think that's why I persu went a different career path than what normally would be. Yeah. And I think that's kind of just being like, yeah, man, I don't want to like never and I'm not knocking anybody. I just never want to be. It's reality. Yeah. I never wanted to be that guy wearing a polo tucked in, like, you know, that wasn't my goal. I didn't want to sit. But that's that's everyone has a decision to make, and that's what they want to do. And there's some people like that's not they go to work to go make money to go do things, and they just shut it off. And then I kind of am jealous of those people though. They go to work, they come to Come home, they shut it off, and on the weekends they don't think about it. Like that's kind of like, wow, that's kind of rad.

SPEAKER_02 22:06

It is. I I think the assumption I have is like to live the lifestyle you want, you need to have a certain level of stress to be able to get paid enough in which you can live that lifestyle. I guess it's like the block. I don't know if it's a lie or not. It seems to be reality. Is most people I know who make good money have a stress level that makes them not be able to be mentally present to enjoy the money they just made.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

I have been in a couple positions where I'm such a zombie. Yeah. And I'm not and it's not a brag. It's just like, okay, cool. Yeah. You did the thing, and now you are just like so out of it that you're just like. So like that was a big deal. I remember the first time I left a position like that. I was like, dude, I was on the edge of like not making it through it. I was really close to ending my everything. Yeah. Just because it just was just sitting there and talking. Now my well, my girlfriend, now my wife. I'm like, money is like it's I get it. And this is my first time making this kind of stuff, but it was like, dude, I'm not happy. Like I am ready to just like, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:10

We're moving, we're changing everything. I don't care about anything. We're eating cold rice for the rest of our lives. I don't care anymore.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Well, it's funny because you're always programmed to be like, you need to do this, you need to make this, and just keep going higher and higher and getting more stuff and more stuff. And then you're just like, dude, no one is I've no one's happy. Some people are. I mean, there's some people you're like, I I always say that's my joke. When you see, like, you got this huge house and all this stuff like, but are they really happy?

SPEAKER_02 23:37

Are they happy? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

I always expect they're probably not, but they probably are, but whatever. Yeah. So yeah, I know exactly like that's the thing. So it's just making those decisions in your life to be like, this is how I want to be. And a lot of people like will frown on you or look down on you, but you're like, hmm, you know what? We're cool.

unknown 23:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:59

Everything's fine. I don't have to buy a new car.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:02

I guess. It's, I mean, I don't know if like American culture is ever like, hey, you're now satiated. Like you've had enough to eat. That like none of that is American to me. It's it's not not very Western culture thing. So you have to have the moment in which you realize that like you've been overeating or you've been like scarfing your face whenever you're like, hey, you don't need to eat like this. You don't need to be like this. Like you probably it is, I guess, getting more like zen, more of learning about like Buddhist practice, honestly, and meditation.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

Yeah, because not everyone can say that. Correct. Yes. Yeah, you're right. It's just like and I'm not knocking it. No. That's just what keeps this whole world moving. And there's so I know people, they have businesses, and that's their whole motivation is to make this much, make this much, get this thing, buy this toy. I'm like, and that's cool because that's what motivates them, because they might not be able to keep their business going if they don't have that. And that's just what that is. It's just sometimes it just makes people unhappy.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

It does yep. Well, because I think it's a all they see is deficits then. All they see is like, well, I wasn't able to do this, I wasn't able to become this. And I'm more like, but who were you able to be? How were you able to act? And can you can you let that bring you joy as opposed to who you how you weren't able to step up or something like that? Because of course, if I think of all the ways I should have done more things, I'm never gonna be happy with who I am. But what did I actually do when what changes can I make for the future?

SPEAKER_01 25:33

Yeah. I've learned for myself to be appreciate just little wins.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

Sometimes people just are like, oh, it's gotta be the big thing instead of like focusing on like, yeah, this was cool. Like it doesn't have to be some grandioso thing. It can just be like, yeah, that was that was cool. I know always looking for the next thing, the next big thing, like what's the upgrade? Instead of being like, this is cool. Like we missed the moment. Or people are so nostalgic for a certain era because when they were living in it, they didn't realize it, but they weren't living in the moment. I feel really bad for my kids for my kids right now because they're too busy. Well, actually I'm pretty good about that. I try to like show them like, hey, just be in this moment. Don't have to record it, live it, yeah. And just keep it up in here, which is such a what? Didn't happen if you didn't you didn't capture it. All right. So they're pretty good at that. They'll like take stills or something like that. Yeah. But I think just being just enjoying the moment I think is really huge right now. And I think people are really I think more people realizing it again. I think everyone's just so caught up in like going fast.

SPEAKER_02 26:48

Yeah. I I can record a song, someone playing a song, I can take a million pictures of it. But I wasn't there to actually be there for the performance and everything, it doesn't mean anything. It doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

It's interesting because you take yourself out of the moment by going looking through the back of your screen, right? Yeah. But if you watch any show except for ones where they pull phones, yes, everyone's recording it, and then I'll watch it on YouTube later on, go, oh, this, you know, like oh, this band played sick. And I'm like, oh, but I'm now I'm part of the problem because I'm watching this, but there's a good chance I may never see that band play again, or they might not come out to our mat. So so I'm kind of the problem, I guess, at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 27:24

I will record like maybe a chorus. Like I'll record like a chorus or something like that. And then if like I have a friend where it's like a shared interest or a shared moment that we've had together with the band, then I'll send it to them. But then whenever it comes like the second chorus, I'm like, Devin, stop it. Like, stop recording. Put your phone in your pocket, pay attention.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

Yeah, it's kind of wild. It's just like everyone has uh yeah, it's kind of interesting. I but I've also made the move for myself also to enjoy like, and this is such a I we went, like I never got rid of I have my own basic my own blockbuster video in my other studio. I have all my DVDs, VHS tapes, right? Yeah. And I would just go there and rent stuff out of my own stuff. But I went back with my kids now and go, eh. Because like we're all kind of fed up with streaming because like they lose a license or whatever. Yep. So we've been going through and we just went through and just did like found a bunch of record stores. The library's great also. Library's great, yeah. Yeah. And they'll have the friends of the bookstore. So a dollar, three dollar Blu-rays, like so. We're just collecting this stuff and like watch a movie like every week on a format that's not second screen, and like make everyone like no phones. Yeah, that's cool. And it's like, and you think, oh, they actually enjoyed it because they weren't zoned out on something else. But I know that's that's kind of like should everyone knows that, but I don't think a lot of people practice it. And I'm not telling people you gotta do this, but it is an interesting way to have people connect on things. We used to play, we were actually we just went on a little trip for spring break, and my wife brings out playing cards, and we play this game called 31, where you have to get 31 or whatever, with three cards only. And everywhere we went, we were playing it again, which is really cool because we weren't on our phones and parents were walking by and for funsies, I threw out like money on the table, and some parents were like, What? They're playing for money, so and then my daughter just wants money. She didn't win, but she took the money. But either way, she earned it somehow. Yeah, exactly. But like, those are the things that we're doing right now, just to like because like right now I feel like this is like my last moments before the kids start to get older and they're out the door more. Like my son, maybe not. My daughter's like rated, she's like goes out and gets adventures already at 13. But soon they'll be like, gone. I won't see them, you know, till they decide to like they need money or something happened or whatever, or they're just like I have nowhere to go or whatever, you know.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

Well, I I've heard I've heard of some people trying to figure out because like I think uh like maternity or paternity leave is always focused on of like first couple months of a newborn, you want to be physically present for it. But I think more people are now trying to figure out like, okay, I have four years of my kids being in high school. These are four very formative years, and then I'm releasing them into the world. How do I not take a step back in my career, but how do I be more physically and mentally available for them? Because these four years are really gonna matter to both of us, honestly. So I think more people are trying to figure out, like, all right, how do I make sure to be here for this? Because it's really important to know that. Because yeah, you basically are knowing that in the next five years, both your kids will probably leave the house, be off in college, and the next five years are pretty important for you.

SPEAKER_00 30:27

Yeah, because that's how it is. But I don't think a lot of people want to focus on that because it's scary. Because you're like, Yeah, it is, it is scary. Yeah. And then if you look at and I feel bad, I don't want to point fingers, but like you go places and maybe because I I'm late to having a phone. It's kind of funny saying that, but I probably had a phone for like 20 years now, 25 years. Which does doesn't sound like a like late to the game, but it kind of is, but like I don't always use it mainly because for me working with a phone was always just too much. Like I had like at one point I had three phones because I was so busy. Yeah, I had one just for texting, one just for voice, and another one just as a backup. And it was so bad.

SPEAKER_01 31:08

So bad.

SPEAKER_00 31:09

Anyways, so I kind of don't but I get bummed when I go to places and everyone is just locked in. Like you'll see the table next to you, and they're just all locked in on their phone, and like, why'd you guys even leave the house? Yep. Yep. But you know, that's how everyone kind of escapes. And it's just kind of a bummer. But I don't wanna I I don't know. I don't wanna that's if that works for them, yeah, that's great. It doesn't work for us, it doesn't work for me, and I'm the one fighting it. But yeah, enough of me on my soapbox, I will get down now.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

You're good. We actually we found out recently that our our library, you can rent uh board games there. So we do that. You can rent them for like two weeks or so, and it is awesome because I I also think like um if we can avoid screens, then we've done something right. Like, or then I assume connection has happened because it, because yeah, screen just means I get to isolate myself from everything else in the world around me. And so like we've done that in the last couple weeks. So, like, okay, we're gonna go to the library while we're there, you guys check out some books and let's see what board games we want to try out. And like it also removes the pressure of like, I just dropped 40 bucks on this board game, we better like it, which is a weird pressure that I put out there. But I definitely, if I spend 40 bucks on it, I we better play this game at least four to five times.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

Yeah. We did the we did like we've collected board games. We started using like we did Monopoly on one New Year's Eve, and my wife had like she went like hard on everybody, and that game lasted like four hours. No, and boy, my daughter, like just nope, no more monopoly in this house. Like, yes, so like we gotta be real careful with that. But yeah, we've done that too, and it's cool because like, yeah, like I said, no pressure because board games are expensive because they are they're not they're not as they have them in stores, but they don't sell as well as they used to because there's other forms of entertainment. So the price has gone up, it just kind of sucks. But yeah, going library is a great place to do it. Another thing I've found is like I've kind of broken our family of instant gratification a little bit. Like we're gonna, if you want something, we'll try and find it at a store as opposed to buying it online. Or we'll order it from the manufacturer and we'll just wait a little bit longer to get it. Or my favorite thing is my kid like don't want something. I'm like, okay, we'll just see if we can find it. Or for records and stuff like that, we're not gonna buy it online. We're gonna see if we can find it in the wild. Yeah. And that's my favorite thing because that's how I was growing up collecting. Because I was I have a collection of many different things because I don't know. I have lots of very various interests, so I'll collect a lot of different things. And that was really hard to break my youngest, but now they have found like that's cool. Like, yeah, we'll we find this in the wild, it was meant to be. Usually, like, hey, some of the stuff, people don't want it, so you get it for way less.

SPEAKER_02 33:55

Yeah, it's perfectly fine. I read a lot of books, and like um Justin Towns Earl had like a biography written about him, but it wasn't at like the local independent bookstore near us. So I was like, I'm also I went and like talked to the owner. I was like, hey, if I want to buy a book from you guys instead of Amazon, can you order it for me? And they're like, yeah. And then also like showing your kids, like, hey, if you want something, like just because it's not there, maybe you can actually like talk to the owner, develop a relationship with the owner. Like now this, now the owner of this bookstore in the future knows, like, hey, if there's another weird, obscure musician autobiography out there, this guy might want it. And then they'll talk to me about it next time we're in the in the shop.

SPEAKER_00 34:28

Yeah, I had that very similar experience with my youngest. We went to this record store not too far called Doctor Strange, and we got this guy came with the star, struck up a conversation about dub and reggae. And I'm not gonna lie, I'm not like super like a cat very casual, very surface dub reggae kind of person, right? Yeah. But he went and talked to me two hours, I think, about this in the store. And my kid was just like, what are you doing? I'm like, we're just talking to somebody about it, and they turned me out a bunch of different music, and we had I had a surface level of it, but then went and deep dove for a couple weeks on it. I'm like, oh, this is pretty rad. I'm like into it because like I never went that far. I went like a surface, never went below it. And now I'm like, oh, it's cool, and yeah, showed, like, yeah, you can that's what happens when you go to a record store. You're gonna meet somebody who's gonna like maybe corner you and talk to your ear off. Yeah, but it's cool. And if I ever see that guy Steven again at the record store, I'll be like, hey man, this is what I got into, and I actually now go look for records or CDs of this stuff, so and it's kind of rad. So that was a moment that a lot of people don't do because like I don't even talk to my neighbors really. It's just because that's just how it is in California. People are like siloed. You're just everyone's siloed. Yeah, like some people maybe like I do talk to one of the neighbors up the street because he's like he builds amps and he plays music like that. So like that's cool. And like a couple other people, but my actual immediate neighbors, barely at all. Like that's it. It's just how it is. It kind of sucks. Yeah, yeah. Because I don't know, everyone's got something going on, I guess. And some people just like, yeah, I just now, no, just close the door.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

I feel that way with like uh like second wave emo is like the genre or time period that I know way too much about, like all the Midwest, like American football, braid, all those bands. Where I'm also like, I'm almost like, all right, if someone like is in that section of a record store and like is looking at the record, like just I'm not gonna say anything to them because I'm gonna come on way too strong, way too hard to be like, oh you like oh, you interested. And I'm like, Devin, just calm it down a little bit. You don't know this person. Well, you could be best friends and do karate in the garage. You could be best friends. You could be doing karate, you could. You could it's a bold assumption that I assume just because someone picked up a record for half a second and they want to hear the whole like lore of it.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

Yeah, but there's people out there who want to learn that stuff. But here's the thing for dudes, let's just keep let's be real about it. Most dudes, your wives will take you somewhere, they think it's like a play date or something, like you're just gonna just like lock in and like have this moment with other dudes, and it doesn't happen. My wife did it. She recently took me somewhere, and there's other dads and husbands there, and we had we just stood there. We had nothing in common. I could tell dudes aren't in the cars, they don't like our they're probably not into music, they don't watch obscure films. Yeah, I don't like sports. I'm just not gonna lie, I'm just not a sports guy, never have been. That's cool. Yep. And usually if they're not into if you're not into sports, that's pretty much it. You're done. Yep. So I'm that guy, the weird dad in the corner, just hanging out by myself or hanging out with my kids. Like, hey, just like that's not me. I'm not doing it. Like, yeah. That's fine. Yeah. So I think it was pretty funny. So for adult men to make new friends is almost like winning the lottery at this point.

SPEAKER_02 37:40

I think you start a podcast. I think that's how you meet new potential friends. That's basically what I've learned. That could be it. Yeah, because then they're kind of forced to interact with you.

SPEAKER_00 37:50

Yeah. They are not really forced, but it's a voluntary interaction that you record and you be maybe offline, they'll talk later on.

SPEAKER_02 37:57

Yeah, yeah. Well, they at least signed up for this. You at least signed up for this conversation, you know? I'm not just a dad in a semicircle wearing a soccer jersey, wondering if you've ever followed a soccer game before, you know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

No, I get it.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

That's fine.

SPEAKER_02 38:12

It's crazy. What is your day job? Or uh you said you're kind of consulting, you do just kind of like everything. Is that what you kind of do?

SPEAKER_00 38:19

No, so I'm a creative. So I'm a designer, artist, a creative consultant. So I work with small to mid-size life action lifestyle brands. I've been doing it for 23 years. And then so I like work with these companies to help them get one organized. Because most of the time in action sports lifestyle, they're usually athletes who are great at what they do, but they don't understand the business, and usually for soft goods, like apparel brands. So that's what I work with. So I usually get them organized first, and then we work on design secondary. And then the whole idea is to help them realize their potential where they can get off to the next stage. Because usually when I'm done, they're moving on to something else, and usually a lot of times suits come in and acquire them, and then like the the passion gets kind of like extinguished for me, and then I move on to something else. So right now I work with a couple different brands, like Dirt Bite Kids, Freestyle Motocross brand. It's owned by Twitch Jeremy Stenberg. He's like been around for a long time in that space. X Games winner and stuff like that. Really cool dude. Reminds me a lot of early famous Starz and Shops days. And I worked at a company called Hoonigan, which was Ken Block's company. I worked with them for seven years. And then that's where I left actually to go do this. And then I work with Von Gitten Jr. Motorsports out of North Carolina. That's a he has a drift team, he's a champion, and I've known him for a long, long time, actually. So I've worked in these different spaces, so that's what I do. So I'm home, like I work four days a week. I'm like on site with one of my brands like two days. The rest of the time I'm home in this room. And that's what I do. So I do artwork, I do a lot of uh just planning, sequencing, stuff like that. So it's like I get to be creative, but help them realize what makes them who they are. Help the North Star. Because a lot of these companies like they get caught up. They just in a little vacuum. So I've been doing that 23 years. So I've worked with, like I said, it's fun.

SPEAKER_02 40:10

That's awesome. That sounds really cool. That and also it makes a ton of sense of like step one is organizing and basically being like, all right, who are you guys? Like, and what do you what do you got going on? And it's like actually put it on paper. Because I a lot of small businesses are like, why are you doing this? Someone needed to, I'm still doing it. And uh maybe we should hire. Should I hire for this? Someone else should be doing this. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

Well, yeah, because like they need to be doing their thing. And like there needs to be someone like, yeah, here's how you should probably release things and like just like build upon it. So I just like that world because I've only worked in the last 23 years, I've only worked with people who've been like, yeah, we pretty much wear shorts and t-shirts every day. Like that's it. Like that was my goal in life is to just be that guy. Yeah, man. That's it. But I mean, hey, sometimes you have to wear something like for court or a wedding, whatever. You never know. So it's fine. And maybe it's the same day, you know, which is convenient. Yeah, so you can knock two out. So that's what I do. That's what I do for, and I've and I feel like I've I mean, dude, I've worked with a lot of people in the music world too, which has been really crazy because I didn't realize it until my daughter recently like started noticing, but you did this, I worked on that one, I worked on that one, I know this person. And then it's not a brag, it's just like I worked in that in the music industry, yeah, and I met all these people and I got to work on projects, and that's some of that stuff still is floating around, so it's kind of rad. Yeah. And then to see, like, oh, and like she picked up on it and like just went, oh, this is cool. Yeah, so it's kind of rad. So it's like her discovering these things. I'm like, oh yeah, I totally forgot about that stuff because that's something I did 20 years ago. Yeah. And I just kept it moving. So it's cool. So that's what I do. And um, yeah, so I'm like drop off the kids from school, my wife's doing her shift at the hospital, I'll pick up the kids from school, and then I won't see them again till dinner because they're just gonna be doing their own thing. But yeah, so that's what I uh that's what I do. So I'm I'm happy to bear it. Because before I would be gone at nine o'clock in the morning, come home at nine o'clock at night. Oh man. Yeah. And then Hoonigan was like uh is an automotive lifestyle and has a YouTube commodity. So I would be like doing my design director job and then doing a YouTube, I'd be hosting on YouTube, I'd write story arcs, and like yeah, by the time I get home on the weekends, if we weren't gone on the road or filming, I was just a zombie. So like that was a big switch for me to not do that anymore. So like now I'm like cool. I if I work Fridays my day to work on my own projects or collab or pick up extra work, and then weekends I try to be like, okay, what are we gonna do? That's awesome. I've been but it took me a long time to design my life that way.

SPEAKER_02 42:42

Absolutely. Yeah, no, this is uh the culmination of probably lots of years of you being like, where am I this weekend? Where am I mentally this weekend? I'm not present for anything, and to figure out the path because it is, it's not none of that is simple, man. All of that is a lot of work, a lot of frustration, and a lot of time to figure out what the hell this actually looks like.

SPEAKER_00 42:59

Yeah, and I have this habit of going super hard and going right back to my old habits of like, I'm just gonna work super hard and keep saying yes to these projects. Yep. And then like, yay, I made extra money. And then I'm like super cra I just like and just fried, and my wife's like, yeah, you did it again. So like she always reminds me, like, if she can see me, I just get too far and I'll just fall off and I'm like just miserable. So I'm like, okay. So yeah, I've designed this life and I'm really happy with it, and it seems to work out well for us.

SPEAKER_02 43:26

So that's great. Well, it's it's really hard to, especially if you I'm I'm assuming you have a pretty big like entrepreneurial spirit to you, um, to say no to stuff is really hard because then especially like music creative stuff, if you say no to one thing, usually that one thing leads to the next thing, which leads to the next thing to the next thing. So you're not saying in your head, you're not saying no to that person. You're saying no to the possibilities that might come from them, also.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

Yeah, because I would work when I started working for Travis back in 2003, I would work from nine to one o'clock in the morning. I worked six days a week. Yeah. That's not good. But I was young. I was 30. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're so young. Well, no, I changed my career. I was an industrial rubber hose salesman for like really? Yeah. So here's why I'll give you a runner. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Elevator pitch me. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So when I started back in 2002, my some of my friends were like graffiti artists and they were fine artists, and they were doing soft goods. They were going into working for apparel companies, doing illustrations, stuff like that, right? I'm like, that sounds cool. I mean, I did comic books and stuff like that with my buddy, and like, I'm gonna give myself one year to try and do this. Well, my buddy Max Grimaho, he's the one who got me in. He was actually the artist at Famous Stark and Straps originally. He was an in-house. And then after six months, I got my job. I'm like, all right, cool. I didn't know how much I was gonna get paid. Yeah. I didn't know if I was gonna be there for two days or two weeks and being there for five years, but I had no idea. Okay. So I yeah, and I didn't use the computer really. I was doing Photoshop, and then I get the first day of work. I'm like, oh, we don't use Photoshop, we use Illustrator. So I teach myself Illustrator over the weekend. So I got my job and I never looked back from then. But I would work so much, that's how I opened so many doors because I met a lot of people because I worked so hard. But also, when you work for a rock star, you're around a lot of people, and he was just always on, he still is to this day, on the go constantly.

SPEAKER_01 45:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:19

So that opened a lot of doors for me. So yeah, I put on that work in the earlier part of my career to now being like, I'm just kind of tired, and I could just be like, you just gotta like let me know way in advance. Like someone just reached out to me about something, I gotta give back to them. I'm like, I just can't take it on right now because like my threshold to overload myself gets lower, and it's just like it doesn't make me happy. The work suffers, and it's just like I don't want to overpromise people. I'm just like, hey, I can't do this right now. Um, if there's still in the future, maybe if you don't get it done, if not, you know, best of luck. Maybe there's somebody I can help connect you with, or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 45:54

So yeah. Yeah. But it's learning like if you are burnt out or you're done, and then like someone's like, hey, I'm a new client, I'm really excited to work with you. And you're like, I never should have said yes to this. It's not the energy you want to bring into a relationship.

SPEAKER_00 46:08

No, especially if it's like in like that kind of like, oh, it's like it's a business thing, and you're like, yeah, you can't, it's yeah, it's hard. Especially creative stuff is like very you make yourself very vulnerable a lot of those things, and sometimes people, not everybody, there are people who prey on it, and that's another thing is like seeing younger artists, people get into this profession, just get beat up. And I'm always been like the nah. So it's yeah, I've fired clients and you guys see the look on their oh yeah, and people like you can't do that. I'm like, I just didn't why not? So it's fine, but yeah, yeah. So that's what I did. So I did that, move forward, and was able to just kind of do my thing. And it's uh for me, it's really fulfilling, and I've had a lot of um great relationships, and I've got to work with a lot of great people and projects I've been really proud about, especially ones I get reminded I did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's it's fun, it's cool. I see like you had Christopher Lee Lewis on not too long ago from the Kinnison, and I met Christopher when they first came in. I worked, I just found their it's like right over there. The I had the backup burn DVD from 2005. I found the artwork for their record they're re-releasing on vinyl for the first time. What, in the next month? Yeah, yeah. It took like months of me searching through all my backups. Yeah, yeah. And I found it, but I remember meeting them back then. So it's kind of wild. So I watched him on your podcast, and that's why we're talking right now, actually.

SPEAKER_02 47:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So well, it's also kind of cool that like I know that scene is having resurgence because yeah, like your daughter's now into it. A lot of people's kids are into it now. So now it is kind of like my parents didn't have that. Like my dad listened to a lot of David Bowie and like Billy Joel and stuff. Like, I I we never connected on like, oh hey, I'm gonna go to Billy Joel. Like, that wasn't a thing. Whereas like for our kids, it's like, oh hey, do you guys want to go down the street? They're on their 20, da da da, and you can do all that. So like it's a very different world, but it's really cool at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 48:02

No, it's awesome. That's why I'm I'm happy to be able to like, oh, I'm not so far gone that I'm like, oh, I don't know what that is. That like you can't. So it's like, yeah, I'm we're going. Me and my kid are going to the Kinison. Like, we're gonna go see we're gonna see MCR twice this year. Nice. And then like she's gonna try and go a third time. She's like trying to get her aunt to like send her to f to Texas to go see him a third. What? We like I took her into January to go see Um Mikey Way, the bass player from MCR. He had he signed his comic book, like it was two hours away. We drove there, stood in line for four hours. She got to meet him, and I got to see somebody I've never I met, I have an internet, like an Instagram friend I've known for like 15 years, but never met face to face. And we live like maybe half an hour away from each other. And I ran into him the first time there because his his daughter's into MCR, she plays guitar, they're very similar. That's cool. We go to shows sometimes together. So it's really cool that my parents would never do that.

SPEAKER_02 49:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it wasn't an option. Like, I mean, how would you even know? Like, I mean, I think message boards were a thing whenever we were teenagers.

SPEAKER_00 49:08

So, like, no, there wasn't, it wasn't a yeah, like no, because I think I was doing BBS boards early Internet. Um, that would have been like 87, maybe 88. So probably my no, my parents definitely were not doing that. No, so it's a different thing. But it is cool that like I said, the research is happening, I can be experience that again. Yeah, because I never got to see the Kinson play live. Yeah, yeah. They had a very short window. Yes, I didn't. But but my daughter does get mad at me because I was on tour with Blink 182 on Warp Tour and stuff like that. She's like, oh, and like this year, I'm like, oh yeah, I was there that year. I went like four dates. Did you see MCR? No. No, I did not. Lame. But I saw Blink and Fallout Boy every night. Yeah, like every single night. That's pretty legit. That's pretty cool. And she's like, Yeah, that's cool. It's fine, whatever. But it's it's but it is interesting to have these conversations. But she's super into the lore, she deep dives everything about the bands, which is really cool because she's very much she'll go do the research, right? I think it's really awesome because I think a lot of the kids, especially now with this nostalgia for uh bygone decades and eras, like they just look at it surface, they don't like want to know like why the things were. So it's cool to see some of these kids are like down to like why was it? Cool.

SPEAKER_02 50:23

Yeah. Has she read out like any Dan Ozzy books yet? Like sellout? Okay, so sellout is Dan Ozzy who did like Mark Hoppas' biography and uh Laura Jane Grace's biography. It's basically him going with all those bands from like the 90s and early 2000s, so like Blank, Green Day, uh Jimmy World, I think Rise Against, Against Me, all these bands who went from indie labels to major labels and what that experience was like. I think Thursday is one of the ones he talks to also. But it has all of that lore. Um there's another book called Where Are Your Boys Tonight, which also is like a huge deep dive into that scene. I can't think of who writes that. I'll message you both of them. But those both of those are two books that are very late 90s, early 2000s, that scene focused. And because it does like all the lore, talking about hanging out like in basements in New Jersey and all that stuff of um how that scene got started. And if she wants to do a deep dive, those are two books that are very easy to read and really fascinating. That would probably be good. So I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00 51:19

Okay, cool. She's not much of a reader, but we just bought a book. She just got a book this weekend. I was like, whoa, it was a big deal. So that might be perfect because there's something she'd be interested in and be great. So yeah, I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_02 51:34

I think where your voice tonight has Gerard Way on the cover of it. So that would probably also be a selling point. That's all I had to say. I think if I have to, if I could choose one of those shows to go to, it would probably be, I'm pretty sure they're playing Wembley, and that Sunday Day Real Estate is opening for them. And I think to watch, like that'd be pretty legit to watch all of that.

SPEAKER_00 51:58

That well, we're actually we're going to Petco San Diego, and then we got tickets when they announced the used. They're gonna play with the used in Hollywood Bowl, so I got those, but we had to get in, I joined the group. I was one of their fan club. Yeah, I got in there super early, and I still had to get like for Hollywood Bowl, I got seats so high up. I don't even know if we're actually inside the Hollywood Bowl at this point. But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She has plenty of time because, like, okay, here's some used CDs, like, here you go. Like, listen to some music. She's like, all right, cool. But like, yeah, man, like that would be I'm actually kind of excited to see them just because of production, and then she explains so much of the lore and like everything and MC5, MCR5 and all this stuff. Yes. So I'm like, I never it's funny because I actually had uh Sweet Revenge, right? Yeah, on my iPod because I rebuilt her mom's iPod. She uses it. I rebuilt mine like a year and a half ago. So like that's cool. We're like, she's like ripping CDs and putting them on her iPod and just doing it. It's still digital, but it's still not. But like, yeah. So I'm excited to actually see those shows because it's just I missed it, even though I could have seen them on the side on the side stage, barely cracking, but it's okay. It's okay. And they see them now their glory. It's just it's wild that she's obsessed, like she's obsessed. It's cool. Like her whole room is plastered with just the most random stuff. Like she's obsessed with jackass, too, which I think is pretty funny. Sure. Very early 2000s. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but about it. Very about it. Like that's cool. So it's cool, but yeah, anyways, I won't take any more of that time talking about that. But I'm excited about that. And then I got my son, like just through connections, like one of the bands he listens to is called Make Out Reef. And they're like a bedroom pop, right? Really small. And I was looking at numbers over the weekend. I'm like, oh, let's see who the numbers are. And it's like this guy, Liam Reese. I'm like, oh, Reese. I wonder if that's Chris's Reese's son. So Chris Reese is in Long Beach. I used to work out there. He was a drummer for Social D. He left for Lewd, he joined Social D, and then he retired. And then, like, I wonder if it's one of his kids. So I message him and he's like, Oh, yeah, that's my son. Yeah, he's playing, he's playing for make out Reef, and he plays for Couch Dog or whatever. And they just finished their tour. He's touring for both of them. And he puts both of his three of his sons through college almost simultaneously. So I think this is the one son. I'm not sure about the other two if they're playing music, but like, yeah, so it's just random. That's cool. That like, so my kids like, like, and then Chris is like, Yeah, if you ever want tickets, just let him hit me up. Yeah, yeah. That's it. So that was one of those moments where like, okay, networking, I'm not asking for free tickets, but I was just cool, like, this is this is this dude, this is his kid, and he's the music you like, and like it's cool, it's not that big of a world after all.

SPEAKER_02 54:40

So yeah. I would love for at the drive-in to do a reunion. Just because, like, just because like one, I think uh that Dan Ozzy book sell out talks about at the drive-in, and he's very much like, oh no, this band was so intense and burned so brightly that they crashed as hard as they played on stage every single night.

SPEAKER_00 54:59

Yeah, I mean, if you watch that, they had that famous performance where I think they play it on a TV show in the UK. Yeah, like Letterman or something. Yeah. Oh, they play it in the UK and they're just like, Yeah. Omar just stopped playing guitar and just broke and started playing a ukulele or something. We play the cowbell or something like that. Because like but it's so crazy. They're like so awesome. But yeah, I don't know. It's like I'm kind of bummed. I never I didn't get to see the refuse play. I I missed their and I missed seeing them play their final show, which they did stream. Yeah. And I didn't get to see that. I'm kind of bummed, but like After Drive In would be cool. I think Sparta's playing. No, Sparta just really didn't. Yeah, Jim Ward's back at it.

SPEAKER_02 55:38

Yeah, he's back at it.

SPEAKER_00 55:39

Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's cool. I After Drive In would be awesome, but I don't know if it could ever happen.

SPEAKER_02 55:45

I don't know if it could ever happen, but I would be there to stand in the crowd and like just be an amazement at that I get to watch them play. Not even like if they could have a shit performance, and I'd still be there and be like, I'm watching out the drive in. This is pretty cool. Yeah, because I don't know if they can move. No, those songs are super intense. Those like every those songs, and you can't just stand still, you don't you have to move it. Yeah, you it requires a lot of inertia to play those songs. Yeah, the energy is insane. So that would be great. All right, I'm gonna wrap up with five questions. They aren't rapid fire or anything, those kind of fun icebreakery questions. And then I'll send you on your way. First question is Did you have any backup names for your kids? Like, did you have any names that you almost named your kids? Um, oh my gosh, dude.

SPEAKER_01 56:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 56:34

It's pretty funny. So the oldest, his name is Gunner. At one point, and this sounds horrible. I know people will be really judgy about this. We were considering naming the kid Ghetto Blaster. Ghetto Blaster? Yeah. We decided not to do that, but we were seriously thinking good. That's probably good. We were seriously thinking that, but we still got heat from some of our family for naming him Gunner. Yeah. But whatever, dude. It actually came from Expendables, the movie. It's all from good's character. Whatever my wife. We had no we had we had lists of names, and we were watching Expendables when she was pregnant, and we're like, That's it. And that was it. We got it. We got it. Can't help it, nerds. What about Ghetto Blaster? Where did you get Ghetto Blaster from? I think it was just like it's like audio pilot and like Apple. There's like a per there's a certain time when people were naming their kids just the craziest names. Yep. And I think we were just on that wavelength of like, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And then you're like, no. No.

SPEAKER_02 57:37

This is a he has to be a uh an adult at some point in time. G B. What do you just abbreviate it? Like, what do you do?

SPEAKER_00 57:43

Yeah, exactly. So that was probably we we dodged that one. I mean, hey, they wrote that Johnny Cash for that song, Boy Names Stu. I mean, come on, he wrote a song about it. Actually, Shell Silverstein wrote that. Okay, see, here's the thing.

SPEAKER_02 57:54

I didn't know that. So I learned something new today, but Larry listened to it and you're like, this is totally a Shell Silverstein poem. Okay, so that was it's not even a cover. It's just like no Shell Silverstein, I'm almost positive. You can Wikipedia this later. He wrote two Johnny Cash songs. I'm pretty sure Boy Name Sue, and there's one called like 15 minutes, where a guy's counting down the time before he gets hung and dies. Okay. And those are both, I don't know if you co-wrote or full out wrote them, but they're both like Shell Silverstein songs or poems. Is he credited on like the album? I think he is. I should have Googled this before I made such a bold claim. I'm gonna call fact checkers know it.

SPEAKER_00 58:27

And I brought an most obscure, but it was definitely not in with our conversation about music. But okay. So either way, we did name so we didn't we didn't name Ghetto Blaster. Probably a great idea. I don't know people back there.

SPEAKER_02 58:41

Great idea. I'm gonna confirm that for you. I'm gonna uh give you the affirmation you're looking for there.

SPEAKER_00 58:45

And then for Penelope, she's still mad. She doesn't even like being called that name, so we just call her Penn now. Okay. It's really because my wife at that time people were naming like pretty much earlier names were being popular again with kids. Yes. So like so Penelope, I think my wife got it from the movie with Christina Ricci. Yeah. Okay. But we were gonna name her Rocket at one time. Okay. Which actually really would fit her personality right now. Yeah. So her middle name is Arwen from Lord of the Rings, which I've never watched really, but my wife is a big Lord of the Rings fan. I'm not gonna lie. I just my nerd only goes so far that it stops and I skip things and I nerd out on other things. Okay. Okay. Yep. So yes, the backup names, there was a list too. But Rocket was the one that was gonna win at one point, and we decided honestly, it would be a really good name right now.

SPEAKER_02 59:39

Did you guys were you a fan of the Guardian of Galaxy movies? Because she also could have like it could have been a resurgent. It would the name would have been okay, I feel like, because like yeah, because of Rocket Raccoon and everything.

SPEAKER_00 59:49

Yeah. No, we were we got into the Marvel thing before I got completely burned out in the Marvel thing. Yeah, that's fair. There's only like 50 of them. There's 5,000 of them at this point. Yes. And I grew up reading comic books. So to me, it was like, okay, cool. Yeah, we've probably been okay with that.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:05

And I think she really likes that. Next question. Who's like your favorite TV movie or like book dad or like father figure?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:13

Dude, that's a kind of a hard one.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:16

You can also do first one that comes to mind if that helps like narrow the scope a bit.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:20

I think I mean I talked about Al Bundy before from Married with Children. Then there's like then there's Mr. C from Happy Days. That goes way further back. Yeah, that's way further back. Yeah. I don't know. I think if I did something s more like more relevant, I would probably have to say Phil Dumfey from Modern Family. My wife really goes hard on that one. Um those are them, I guess. Like, yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:45

Yeah. Realistically, Phil Dunfey or Bandit from Bluey, so a cartoon dog. Those are the two most common answers.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:53

I've never seen Bluey.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:55

My kids are older. It's super cute. It's you shouldn't. I mean, your kids are older. It'd probably be weird if you're like, hey, honey, tonight. I know we only have an hour to watch TV. We're gonna watch, we're gonna do Bluey in canon. We're gonna do it in order. Woof.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:09

Man, uh I don't think I'm ready for that.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:11

I'm not ready for that. You're not. Do you also you shouldn't be? Next question. Did you ever have a replacement curse word? Like something you would say instead of the curse word, or did you just say the curse word?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:20

So when the kids were younger, I made it a habit to not say anything at all around them. Like in general. Like you just didn't speak to them? Yeah, yeah. No, I was it was I just I took a vow of silence. I just didn't say any of the words around him at all. Yeah. Um, I'm not knocking my wife. She definitely can talk like a pirate. Yeah. And then I would go to work and still have that mindset because the kids were younger. And now the kids are older and we don't have a real strict policy. We used to, and it kind of got more lax, and now I'm just like, man, are we in a bar right now? What's going on around here? So I I sometimes still kind of we didn't have anything. I just didn't say anything. There's some people say like, what was it? HECA. Like that's a Northern California thing instead of HEC. Like that's I never did any of that stuff. I have friends that did it. I just kind of just like, yeah, man, whatever. I just never said anything. And now it's like it's a free for all in our house. I'm sorry. We're just we're not bad parents. I'm just telling you, it's just yeah, it's the way, just the way they are.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:29

They're just like well, there's gonna be the age where like you know they're saying the words anyway. So like if anything is like, oh, just don't say this in front of like, I don't want you to get your ass beat, and I don't want you to get expelled. So just you know that, right? Like, you know when to say these words, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:44

Yeah, and I'm like, you know, just don't just run them just in a long train and just keep saying it just to say it. Like, you know, whatever. You know what I mean? Like you said, they're old enough now, they're gonna say it. I remember the first time my mom heard me say, like, yeah, hear me say shit, and she's like, I heard that. And I was like, she was downstairs in another side of the house. That's awesome. I was like, even to this day, I barely say that stuff in front of my parents. Sometimes I do, but usually I try not to.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:12

Because that moment, I'm like, oh because I'm like, oh man, she's gonna know for some reason somehow. Yeah, exactly. So did you use any uh alternative words? Or do you use um I do sound effects more. My kids are still a little bit younger because they're 10, 8, and 4. And so, like, yeah, I still I still have to. So, but no, like whenever my youngest is 12, uh, yeah. I did I told my wife this the other day. We live out in Colorado, and there's a thing called the Manitou Incline, which is literally like an incline that you walk up, and it takes like an hour or two to do it. So we made our kids do it, and then like we walked down it. And um, my middle child was like done, and I was like, hey, and like as in like my wife, son, and oldest daughter were already like almost back of the car, and we're still like have a fourth of the way to go down. And I looked at her and I was like, hey, you seem frustrated and annoyed. If I let you use curse words for the rest of this walk, can will you walk down the rest of the way? And she like got this look on her face, like, oh, and I was like, and then she didn't even say him. She's just like she like pretended, she like it energized her enough to know she could almost say it. And then we got to the bottom. I was like, we can never speak of this. It's funny to figure out what motivates your kids, and the mischief totally motivated the second child. Yeah, but that's fun though.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:21

That was funny. You have they have a memory that you both share. Yeah. That will definitely be with that child forever. Yeah. That's kind of rare. It's pretty cool. It's pretty cool. Because you'll probably forget it.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:33

No, I don't yeah, probably. I definitely will. I should not have the confidence that I will forget it, and hopefully it's a positive memory for her. I'm pretty sure it will be. I'm pretty sure it will be. It will be.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:45

Yeah. Next question, second to last question. What's like favorite activity to do with your kids? Seems like it's probably like going to concerts, music, stuff like that, but what's like favorite activity you get to do with them?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:55

Just enjoying their time. It doesn't really. I kind of broke them of like we always have to go looking for buying something. Yeah. So it can be like going to the park, walking, watching a movie, listening to music, just experience something together. Yeah. For the longest time, it was like they were on this shopping thing, like we just gotta go buy stuff.

unknown 1:05:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:14

And I just like, you know what? Yeah. And during pandemic, that's all you could do. So guess what? A lot of people just hooked into that and never want to let it go. Yep. So it's kind of those things. So, but I would say, like, if we're digging for records or my son's looking for a video game, like a physical copy, which is really hard nowadays to find stuff. But it's funny because we just went to there's a store called Book Off. They're from Japan, but they have them now in the States.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:39

And the one in San Diego is really, really good, and we went there and he decided to get some old Game Boy. Color Game Boy and Game Boy Advanced Games. Yeah. And uh I still have all my consoles. So he was playing, he's like, Oh, this is really good still. I'm like, Yeah. So he was like, cool. So that kind of stuff for him, and obviously for Penn. It's like record stores. We might not find nothing. She might be like, This place sucks. But you got to either listen to someone talk to us about something, or you met somebody, you got to see some like listen to something playing in the store. It's just kind of experiencing things. I I don't know. Before when they were younger, they would go out to the garage and like watch me or help me help me work on my cars. Because I have a bunch of old schools, like old classics. And they would do that. And like the oldest is now not really into that. And then so my daughter, like Penn, wants to like teach me about cars. So she's gonna go that way. So it's kind of cool. Nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:39

We're just any of the shared experiences, though. And I also play music, like we'll play guitar together. And then sometimes my son will just sit in his bed while he's doing something. I'll just be in his room and just like, what are you doing? Just hanging out, just getting that moment because there's gonna be a time when I won't be able to just walk in here and do this. Yeah, pretty much.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:57

Yeah, that's what it is.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:58

Yeah, that's sweet. That's cool. And then last question what is your least favorite kid show or movie? Like something your kids used to watch all the time or still watch, and you're just like, This is trash, I can't stand this show. I would say Paw Patrol was something I could not get into.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:15

They loved it for a long time. Yeah. It's so funny because we just watched Gumball again recently, and Gumball is great. And it's because it's back on. So it's like and I was like, oh, it's such a good show. But yeah, Paw Patrol is one I couldn't handle. But you just go through it, you're like, yeah, cool, man. It was fine. It's not for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:33

I think once I figured out the formula of Paw Patrol, I could tolerate it a lot more. I'm like, okay, there's gonna be some really dumb problem. They're then going to choose which pups go on that. Then, like, once I figured out the story arc, like act one, act two, act three, then I was like, okay, I can at least like for some reason that helped me. And then I could like, because it's kind of like if your kid listens to a band a million times, like I studied audio engineering stuff. So then, like, by the fifth time I've heard the song, I'm like, what's the bass in this song doing? What's the keyboard in this song doing? Like I break it down to that level. So I'm not just in the corner being like, this song sucks. So that's the only way I know how to like tolerate that or deal with that.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:10

That makes sense though. Because you you approach it from that. I would just be like, okay, they're gonna figure it out, work as a team. Great. That's fine. But it teaches them that skill. It does.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:21

So it's is it is helpful. It's it is. But I will say I do want consequences for Mayor Humdinger because he has none. There are no consequences at all. He continues to be mayor, and it's not even his town. He's coming from out of town to cause terror. So, like, that's the one lesson of Paw Patrol I want them to teach is like, where are the consequences for Mayor Humdinger?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:41

That sounds like something for the next era of their show. A show that was really cool, that I thought was really fun, that I wish they would bring back was uh oh my gosh. Aquabats. What was it? It was uh what DJ Lance Rock was.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:55

Yo Gabba Gabba?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:56

Yeah, Yogabba Gabby.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:57

Yo Gabba Gabba is back because it's on Apple Plus now.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:00

Is it new?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:00

New episodes? Oh sick. Yo Gabba Gabba is back, yeah. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:05

Yeah, I got my kids into that too for a little bit. They're like, all right. And I remember I just ran out for the randomest reason I was somewhere and DJ Lance Rock was there. And I was like, no way. And he started waving at me. I'm like, yeah, I don't really know you, dude. I know you from TV, but I'm glad you waved. Because it was really cool to see him out in his costumes like that and doing this thing. I was rad, but yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's cool. I'll check that out then.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:27

Yeah, yep. It's out there. I'm almost positive it's it's on Apple Plus because it has like it's having resurgence, and I'm almost positive it's on Apple Plus. So there you go. I mean, dude, they gotta keep Scott music going somewhere. And what a better way to do it. So much, so much scott. I remember like being in college and like I think Taking Back Sunday did a song on that called We All Love Our Pets. And I remember like YouTubing a kid's show, so I could watch a Taking Back Sunday segment and being like, this is not something I ever expected to do in my life, but here we are.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:57

But it's cool though, because it turns out those kids got turned on the music that they would not have heard.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:04

Their parents were like, oh, sick. Yeah, like, oh no, do we want to watch that again? Let's watch this episode again. That's cool. That's a good episode. Yeah, good for them, though. That's awesome. Right? And then last thing for you is just like moment for self-promotion. So, like, uh, do you have Instagram, anything like that? Want to follow you, your journey, all that good stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:21

Uh, my Instagram is JCase7452, uh, where I just pretty much when I do post, it's usually art related or project related stuff. Um, I just posted some stuff on there recently that was like my journey at famous when I first started 23 years ago. So it was early, early 2000, the style, what was going on, the people I was hanging out with. Cool, yeah. So it's pretty rad. Um my website is johnchase studios.com, J-O-N. No H. Nice. Um No H. And that's where I have my soft goods and I do art prints and stuff on there. And it's where I am also oddly enough, I'm starting to blog again, which is crazy. Cool, yeah. In the world of uh with all the generative stuff and the search bots, it's interesting that I'm doing that because it's so hard to get to people to see things, even on just in general, it's hard. Very much so. Usually I'm doing more in person, like doing like conventions, stuff like that to get connected with people. But I had to take a step back because I'm actually releasing my own shoe. I designed a shoe because I've been designing for 23 years, and I've always I learned how to do sunglasses and watches and denim and other apparel and jackets. I wanted to do shoes. So I took a class last November from a person I've met 30 years ago who got into shoe design, worked for Circa, did Muska shoe, like is still working in the shoe design world. Yeah, yeah. Taught me this stuff. My shoe's gonna be landing hopefully in a couple weeks. So I'm excited about that. So I'm uh doing more things like blogging and just trying to do more in-person activations. So that's what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:54

Are you doing it on Zenga or Live Journal? Which one? Are you making it full early 2000s? No, no, no, no, no, no. It was so funny. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:02

Because like the fun uh the Kinnyson just posted like a screenshot because I used to update their website for them when they were doing tours and stuff like that. And it was the worst you like slice with Dreamweaver and then put it up. But like the most just chaotic. Like, I totally forgot about that. And they posted I'm like, oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah, those are what it used to be.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:21

Yeah. So no, um just doing a little thing, but it's I don't know, it's just that's cool. Just sharing the my process more and like just I don't know, just doing the thing. Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:33

Nice. Sweet. So yeah. Thanks for hanging out with me. Thanks for talking about being a dad, creative stuff, and all the stuff that comes with it. It was fun. Thanks for having me. If you ever want to keep talking about it, let me know. Cool. Yeah, I appreciate it. No, genuinely. I'll um I'll send you a message, I'll like text you, or uh, I'll message you my phone number, all the good stuff. Maybe we can be real friends. We could. We could. Maybe. Awesome. Sweet. John, I really appreciate it, man. I'll talk to you next time, all right? Thank you. Cool. Thank you. Have a good one. Thank you so much for listening to the episode. Make sure to follow us on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube at the Imperfect Dance Podcast. And make sure to give us five stars wherever you listen to us. Music, editing, and production is all done by me. Make sure to tune in on Mondays and most Thursdays for an episode. This podcast is part of the Never at Face Network. Make sure to go to NeverAfface Network.com to learn more about it.