Episode 242 | Chris Jacobs and Steve Stanley of Further North

On this episode we have on Chris and Steve from the band Further North.

We talked about life on tour, how their band feels like a brotherhood, Chris’ life with twins and journey with fertility, Chris’ day job with plumbing, Steve’s PHD in Boenhoffer, a detour into peaceful protest, planning on Steve not playing a show because of family commitment, and deep conversations in the van.

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This podcast is part of the Never A Phase Network, follow them on instagram at @neveraphasenetwork and check out their podcasts like Emo Kids Anonymous  Wasting Time Podcast Certified Fangirl and The Ska Mailman

Transcript

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Welcome to the Imperfect Dance Podcast. This is your host, Devin. We believe dads go deeply about their family and kids, but they don't always have a space to discuss what their life looks like. Our podcast is a space for dads to discuss the ups and downs of fatherhood and how they feel like they're holding it together, or how they're not. Thank you for joining us for this episode. This podcast is part of the Never A Face Network. Make sure to follow them on Instagram or go to the website never face network.com. On this episode, we have Chris and Steve from the band further north. We talked about life on tour, how their band feels like a brotherhood, Krista's life with twins and his journey with fertility, Chris's day job with plumbing, Steve's PhD and Bonhoeff, a detour into peaceful protest, planning on Steve not playing a show because of family commitment, and all the ridiculous late-night talks in the van while on tour. Just like one more thing. Oh, my bad. First, since there are two of you on this podcast, I do have to like make you introduce yourselves and put, you know, like a voice to a name that way and do it now, because if I don't do it now, then in 20 minutes I'm gonna be like, oh, the audience has no frame of reference. Right. So please introduce yourself. Say your name and how many kids you got, ages, all that stuff. Awesome. I'll start. So I'm Steve, uh, and I got two kids. My son is 12 and my daughter's 13. She's about to be 14. Chris. I'm Chris. My name is Chris. I try to make it a AA thing, but it wouldn't be funny. Yeah, yeah. No. I've been fathering for six years. Yeah. I've been fathering for six years. No, I have so I have twins, uh, twin girls, nonetheless, and uh they're six. So this is my seventh year in the saddle here. It's amazing, dude. Steve, what's the age difference between your kids? So about a year and a half. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I always say, like, my son is, or my daughter is like the the the cause and solution to all my son's problems. Yeah. So like as a baby, my daughter would go take his pacifier away from him and he'd start crying. And then she'd give it back. She'd be like, here, Bubba, give it back to him and like pet him on the head. I'm like, you created that. You started. Yeah. And she'd be like, no, no, no, I'll take care of all to take care of. Like, but I fixed it. What lodgings does it? Yeah, yeah. I fixed it. I fixed it. Yeah. That's job security. That's what that is if you work a job. And Chris, what's the age difference between your kids? Maybe three minutes, maybe two? Uh two minutes to exactly actually. 958. Yeah, 9.58 and 10 a.m. on July 90th. Almost said 9. July 10th. That's awesome. Two minutes. Two minutes, dude. That's what was it like whenever you found out you're gonna have twins? Well, I mean, I guess we'll break it down. Yeah. You know, I d there's no there's no no barriers with us. We we talk about whatever. Okay, cool. But uh so me and my wife had to go through we had to have some scientific help. Yeah. And I'm not sure. I never ever say it right. I don't know if it's like IVF or like whatever. It's not the super like expensive one, I guess. It's like a step before that. Yeah. You got the great value version of the school Walmart. I did. Right. I did. Hey, you dude, it's it's hard out here for musicians, okay. I get it, I get it, I get it. It is. But no, like we uh we did that and uh they said you have a pot I didn't I'm I'm special, like I don't I wasn't catching on to the science side of it. But they told told us they're like, okay, you guys have two eggs, so you have a potential to have for them to split, and that makes four, and I was like, Oh, okay, cool. So we have like a better chance. Well, see, I didn't think, oh my god, that means we could have four kids. Yeah. Like at once. That's that would just like that's earth shattering to me. Like, I wouldn't know what to do. But so we go through everything, and everything's good. She gets pregnant, we go back, and uh, they're like, hey, so they're doing a uh sonogram. Yeah. And the nurse looks at her and looks, looks at my wife, and looks at me, and I'm like, what? Like, you know, of course, I'm like, what what what's going on? This is going, it's either it's going one way or the other, and I really pray that it's not gonna be a bad thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But so she looks at us and she goes, Well, there's baby A, and she wrote A on on the on the monitor. And I said, I stopped her and I was like, Hey, I said, There's 25 other letters in the alphabet. I was like, what are you about to tell me? And so she goes, Well, there's only two. And I said, What do you mean only two? And she's like, Well, you could have had four. Like, she kept trying to silver lining me. Yeah, she's like, Well, you could have had four. And I was like, No, no, no, no, back to the to the there's two thing. Like, what is you know, of course, like I don't know, I I graduated high school and I went on tour, so I'm not the smartest guy in the world. But I was like, what? So what does that mean? And I just kept telling her, like, what does that mean? And my wife is, yeah, it's weird, right? Because it's on the sonogram, but you can see in the sonogram, it is it is visibly bouncing because she is laughing so hard sitting in in the chair. She's like, What I don't know what we're gonna do with twins. Like, how do you even kick that off? You know, for so yeah, I'm talking to the to the sonogram tech, and I'm like, what? Like, what does that mean? Like, break it down like dummy style for me. Like, explain to me what we're talking about. She's like, Well, you're gonna have two kids. I was like, like at once, like that's crazy. So thankfully, we didn't have one to begin with, so we only we've only ever known what it's like to have two. And so everybody's like, Oh, you know, I don't I don't know how y'all did it. And we're like, dude, we didn't have an option. Like we just we just hit the ground running and figured it out. Yeah, it was not easy, I'll tell you that straight up. Like, it wasn't easy, and there's days now, you know, they're six, but there's still days now that I'm like, this is the freaking hardest thing I've ever done. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's generally something that happens, and I'm on the road with these guys or something, you know, I'm on FaceTime, and I can't be there to like physically be the dad that I should be. Yep. And I mean, sort of foreshadowing, you know, if we talk about the music side more or whatever, but this last run that we had, we were in Seattle and what the like Washington and Oregon area, PW. And it was just like for everybody in the van, it was all kind of rough. And it's like, dang, dude, like this is what everybody writes about where like you're not home when crap hits the fan, and you have to be there to like try to work it out with your partner or your kid, or in our case, like we had a uh pet that died, and no, we had we had our content creator and is Murphy, she's incredible. Her dog like passed away, and she wasn't there for it. And it's like, dude, like this sucks. Yeah, this is like the it's like Steve, Steve and I have been through a lot in the band together, and then like him and I is just like because we're business partners too. Cool, but like just outside of the band, we've also been through stuff, and he's always been the dude that's like, yo, like pick your head up, just keep going. Like, we believe in like adversity makes you stronger. Yeah, sure. Like, did that week that this whole week or that whole weekend, yeah, it was rough. It was a what was it? It was a Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and I think we all started with like two hours of sleep on Friday, and it was just we were like done, dude. My my favorite, no, you're getting my favorite Frank Turner lyric that pops in my head a lot is remember this is your past if you survive. Because I feel like people are always like, oh no, you're gonna be great, you're gonna be stronger. And it's like, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Yeah, but first it breaks your bone, then you spend a year in rehab, and then so I don't, I don't know. I understand resilience. I understand keeping my head up and stuff, but like, can we talk about the chunks of my personality this this damage in the process? Right. Like, no, no joke, dude. There's there's a part of me, and it's mostly in liquid form, aka tears, on the side of the road in Los Angeles, California, because of some stuff that happened a couple years ago with us. That was yeah, that was my first, like, oh my god, I got us on an airplane. Like I said, we're the dads. Yeah, yeah. So I'm like, I got us on an airplane the furthest we've ever been away from home together. And it's just a dumb situation. But like we couldn't get the rental car to work right away. And I'm like, no, yeah. Like, how like, oh, what do we do? Like, we're screwed. And so him and I had like this really, you know, kind of prophetic walk to a bank because we had to put cash into an account because they wouldn't take they wouldn't take multiple cards. Like it's just insane. Yeah. Which already being a parent is constant moments of, even if you're not a term musician, being like, guess I'm figuring this out today. Like I didn't want to figure this out today, but here we go. There's so much done on the fly. Yeah. And I think that's what kind of why we're good at what we do here. Yeah. A lot of times it's like parenting on the road, you know, and that's like that's the non-glamorous part about being in a band and being a dad is like you're like Chris, you know, had his like daughter who was like sobbing on the phone this past weekend. And then I had like kids that were performing, you know, like like their big choir performance and choir trip. And my son was upset that I wasn't there legitimately, you know. And so like he's sad, and I and I'm trying to figure out how do I support him and be there. And while I'm also here, you know, it's like kind of that divided attention. And, you know, when we're face to face with our kids, spend, you know, great time with very quality, intentional quality time with our kids. But also, I think the hard thing about being a dad on the road is like recognizing that to the kid, you know, to my son or my daughter, like, well, you're still dad. Like, I should be able to approach you anytime, right? So it's like we're loading into the venue or whatever, and then oh that was yeah, that was something too. Like, we're loading into the Bremerton uh venue. I don't even know if I told you this, Chris. And then my daughter was like calling me going, hey, I I think you and Angel were doing some stuff with the uh whatever, the X32. And my daughter's calling, and I answer, and she's like, you know, there's drama in her um acting class, and she's like telling me all this stuff, and I'm like, okay, I need to be here, I need to listen, I need to be here for her because this is important. But at the same time, I'm like, is this show gonna go off? Right? Are we gonna And so like checking currently? Right, right. And so it's like, how do you balance all of that? And it's a lot of times, like yo, Chris and I will be like, hey, dude, I gotta take this call. Let me, you know, like, can I get five minutes or whatever? You know, and it's like we're we're dads and we kind of know anyways, but it's it's hard, it's like emotionally uh difficult. Our band is, you know, our band and you know it there's times that I've I think I've pushed a little more than I should have, but that's just kind of the business side of me. But our time is our band is such a family first focused thing. Like Steve, like we're about to play a show in I don't know, two or two weeks or so where some friends call keep flying, and we don't I we don't want to cancel the show, but Steve can't do it. Steve just this will be the first show we've ever played where he wasn't singing. Like one of our friends is gonna step in and hell. But we've always been a family focused band, and it's always been like said out loud, so we just kind of know, like, in that sort of situation, like, hey, I've gotta go get on this FaceTime, like my kid is freaking out. Like, I gotta go talk to her. Yeah. Yeah. And everybody knows, and you know, you'll you'll see. What I guess what I'm really trying to say is like my five guys are the most family focused dudes I've ever done this with, and they understand it all. So it's way, way, way easy to be like, hey, Steve, I need you to play this guitar for a sound check or like figure this out while I go FaceTime my kid. Yeah. He'll do the same thing, like, hey, yeah, you know, here's the the wireless mic, like sound check it because I can't do it, I gotta go get on the phone. Yeah. And it's it's there's there's no, there's it's all understood. Like nobody is gonna get pissed, nobody's gonna get mad. We've we've just kind of always set that as a priority, and it helps. Like when we're home, we're home. And even when we're not home, like we're still on the phone or we're on FaceTime, or just this last year, like my daughter has an iPad, which is sort of like a love-hate thing with me. But she on Facebook Messenger, she's learned how to call me now. So she like I'll be in a work meeting here at home, and then my phone just goes nuts for like six missed calls. And it's just her being like, I just want to know what you're doing, and it's like I'm working being an adult. Yeah, hang on. Hang on, you won't have the iPad if I don't do this. Yeah, pretty much kind of situation. But no, like we've we've we've been very, very good and very intentional about family in the spin, which is yeah, is uh a huge blessing for all of us, really. Yeah, I have some friends that are in a band called The Wild Feathers based out of Nashville. And um, yeah, I don't know if they do three long week tours anymore. I I think they keep it to maybe one. Because like in their 20s, yeah, man, of course, do it all the time, do whatever. But like now, like, yeah, if they're away from home for more than for two weekends, like every member in that band is a dad. And they're like, it's not worth it. I'm not missing little league games, I'm not missing these moments with my kids. Love playing in front of people, love sharing music, love doing this life. But if I if my kid only remembers little league baseball as a thing I was never there for, no, not doing it. Yeah. So I listened to a podcast uh that was I listened to a lot of podcasts. Aaron Gillespie and Tim McTagg from Underoath. And obviously they're they're a drastic example of this, but Tim was like, dude, I have a 13-year-old daughter, and I've I think I've only been present in her life, like physically with her for like seven of those years. Yeah. And that's crazy for me to think. Like I don't, you know, I love Under Oath, and I love they've given me a lot of the spiritual side of things and and just like a lot of influence throughout my my life. But it's insane. I don't know that I could ever and we've talked about this, Steve, but like if Green Day called tomorrow and was like, Hey, we want to put you guys on the road, we're like, okay, but you're gonna have to do it for like 35 people because like everybody's family is coming. Take it my wife, take it my kids, right? Yeah, yeah. There's a bus per band member. Yep, yep. And I just it's just it's wild to me that one day you're gonna look back and be like, man, I spent half of this kid's life, not in their life, yeah, just to do to pursue something for myself, which I'm all for, like you said, in your 20s, do it until you're you know sleeps for the the dead. I get it. Yeah, but whenever you have a child, to me, all of a sudden every priority switches, and that's the focus. And it's not about you and your music and what you want to do. Like, sure, it's still fun to be able to do it. But you gotta go home, and that kid needs that kid needs needs you, you know? Yeah. And we've I mean, it's it's been a a struggle for me to balance that sometimes just because I am so I'm like a thousand miles an hour or zero miles an hour. Yep. And you know, sometimes the thousand was the band and the zero was the family, and I had to correct it as fast as I could because I don't want any of those situations. You know, I don't I'm such a sad dad that like well, that's kind of a a term that we use. Sad dad core is what we call ourselves, but like we uh I don't want to be down the road and have my kid be like, hey, you missed my birthday, you know what I mean? Like Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's crazy. Well, Cat's Cat in the Cradle is a great song. It's not supposed to be biographical, you know? Right, right, right. For sure. Supposed to be a warning, right? Yeah, your kid will move on, the world doesn't stop while you're at work and make sure to be there. If I can ask, what's uh can ask why you won't be able to play that show like in a couple of weeks? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So my my daughter has a performance, and so we this has been a weird thing for us, like, and I don't even know how to explain it unless you're a dad, you or you know, or like a mom, you you've experienced this, but like we further north books our our year, like months or sometimes a year in advance, right? Like recording, touring, yeah, buying tickets, right, playing tickets or or you know, getting on the road and stuff. And unfortunately, like we will frequent, especially the past year. It has been every it's the constant in this last year. I know you're interested, sorry. Yeah, you know, you know. And I'm not I'm not even mad about it. It's just like I don't know what to do about it. So like every weekender we've booked trip or what in including this last one, over the past, I think, probably nine months, a year or something like that. Yeah, my kids inevitably will have a performance scheduled that weekend after we've like months or weeks after we booked it. And then it's like, well, we've got money on the line, we've got and so what do we do? And you know, so this time around, it was like the show came up and it was like the perfect show for us, and some buddies of ours were like, we need to do this, but also like I've missed so much, I just can't, I can't, yeah, and I'll be in town. The crazy thing is I will be in town, you know. It's not even like we're gonna be on the but it's also like you know, we've always say uh with the band, like the family always comes first. Family always comes first. So like this is something that we just kind of talked about and we're like, I'm just gonna, I'm just not gonna play. And not in not in a mean way or anything. And I even said, hey, if there's uh if there's somebody that we know that would want to jump on stage and sing for us, I think that'd be awesome. So and and it looks like it's gonna work out that way. So I'm super stoked on that. But yeah, that's what it is. It's being a dad, of course. Yeah, yep. Well, I mean, I'm so weird about it. Like, I don't I don't want somebody else to do it, but I also don't want to let our friends down. Of course. Yeah, well, I mean, it it's gotta be a weird place to get in your career. It's like it's it's always interesting to have your priorities, know your priorities, and then to like follow through on them is such a different thing. Because like I know people who are in your guys' situation also, where they're like, I'm not touring unless it's worth it. And like that seems like such a harsh sentiment to be like, but it's like, no, no, no. Like, I've got to make sure people are gonna show up to these shows. I've got to make sure tickets are gonna sell, I've got to make sure it's financially worth it, emotionally worth it. Like, if I'm gonna skip out on this world, what I'm gonna do better be good. And like that sounds very aggressive the way I just said that, but like also know people who work full time and are dads, and they're like, If I'm gonna be away from my family for 40 hours a week, this job better be giving me something that's worth missing this time. Yeah, right. Yeah. No, we're gonna be able to do that. Yeah, there's gotta be some sort of a balance to it. You know, I think one of the things that we try to do is just be intentional about what we're booking, how often we're booking, and the beauty of the world that we live in now, like you couldn't do this 20 years ago when we were playing a lot more, is you know, we we can do weekends, you know, like we do have Spotify that can get our music to people, and we have, you know, YouTube in such a way that I don't know, like like it's much more accessible, you can get people out to shows, and so it's it's easier for us to both be dad and yeah be in a band. Whereas 20 years ago, dude, like you had to play 200 dates out of the year, you know, to to get anywhere. And that's just impossible. I mean, I guess you could do that now. I just none of us could, yeah, because of our between work and family. There's no way like I'm I'll be 40 next year, and it's just like sure. I I graduated high school and I flew to uh to Boston and I started a tour with the band called The Receiving and Sirens, and I didn't stop touring for God, what, 20 what was it, 28 when I met my wife? Yeah, yeah. And so like for the better part of 10 years now, like it's been kind of sporadic, which is it's a complete shift and it's just a totally different world. But you know, and we it's corny as it is and cheesy as it is, like I wouldn't trade I wouldn't trade that for any for what we have now for any of that. Yeah, yeah. Yep, it's crazy. And I think I I'm glad like it's always interesting me whenever having a kid doesn't or having a kid getting married doesn't change people's like habits. Because I get it should like uh that deeply concerns me about someone's ego. Because it's like, yeah, you get married, you have kids, like, oh I can't be the same. I I have to change in some way. I've got to modify some stuff, I've got to be more selfless in ways that I didn't know I needed to be selfless. And then, like, to me, like, it's just you take it a day at a time. It's like, okay, cool. Yep. Last weekend, how was it whenever you guys went on and played? Everything was awful at home? Cool. Can we space out the next run of shows a little bit so I can get more home time? And that's that's I that's I think that's the reality of how you approach it is you don't sit, you don't say like this is what we do. You go, all right, guys, let's check in. We were just gone for four days. We good? Like, how's it how's everyone feeling? And then we'll know how to step forward a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I love that, man. Like, that's something that we try to thankfully, we're we're all like an open book and we kind of share, especially like at once we get off the road, we kind of will recap like, hey, this happened at home, that happened. Yeah. And we're all open books about the family. And and so we all kind of know each other's scenario and you know, what kids we have at home and this and that, and family and stuff. So that's something that we're always touching base on. And I'm I'm asking Chris and he's asking me, Hey, is everything good? Are the kids good? And so I I value that. Like Chris said earlier, like we all value family, not just in our own families, but in each other's. And Chris will ask me frequently, like, hey, how how's your daughter? How's your son? And to me, it's like you know, like he's he's family to me, you know, like he's not just a bandmate. He cares about me and my family, and that's important to me. So I mean that's a good idea. Yeah, I I couldn't I couldn't be in a band, you know, like with somebody that just didn't care. You know what I mean? Like, especially now. Like back in the day, you're you know, yes, I don't know, 17. It doesn't matter. Yeah. Yeah. But where we are today, you know, that's important. I think when you're a teenager or like early 20s or something like that, music is like your entire existence. So you're like you can have a lot of grace. You can like, yeah, as long as you got good vibes and good tunes, you're good. Right. But then you have a family and you're I don't know, opportunity cost, whatever you want to call it, you realize what you're missing out on. And so for someone to not care or inquire about something that's a pretty massive part of your identity, it's you view them when someone doesn't ask me about like how's your family, I'm like, I'm just gonna assume you don't really give a shit about me. That's right, right? Right. Yeah. That's how it comes off, right? We uh we've we've been taking out, so our drummer who we had since COVID up until probably a year and a half ago, he just had a kid. Yeah, yeah. He has he he just had a daughter, she's a baby baby. Yeah. So he's still in like the survival mode. Uh-huh. Yeah. But uh, so we've we've we've had our friend out playing drums with us, and he is 22 years old. So it's basically like having a son in the van with us. And uh we've heard driving, yeah, literally, yeah. Like it it I think you even said, like, Jackson, you could be my son. Like you could be my son. Yeah, alternate timeline. Alternate timeline, you're my kid. You're my kid. But like, yeah, he uh he's new to the traveling and touring and all that, but he he loves it and he's eager and he's ready to do it. You know, we're just kind of the old dogs. They're like, get me to the hotel or get me to where we're staying. Yeah. But we're we were we were driving back to we have friends pretty much all over the country. So we were staying in Lacey, Washington with some uh some family. And uh we were driving back to that house after I don't remember one of the shows. And Jackson, our our drummer, our fill-in drummer was like he had he used his his uh drink tickets at the bar, I'll just say that. And I think I I'm straight edge, so he like I'm pretty sure I gave him mine too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he like do you remember this, Steve? Yeah, sure. Vaguely, yeah, vaguely. Like Jackson leaned, I'm in the middle, the middle bench of our van. Yeah. And Jackson leans up and he's he's pretty tipsy. And he goes, Man, he goes, I love doing this. And it was just like I for a split second, I saw myself 20 years ago. Right. Yeah, yeah, like good, I'm glad. You know, I want you to experience this while you can without anything really kind of no responsibilities back at home kind of thing. And uh there's a wonder year song called Passing Through the Screen Door, and in that song he talks about he's 26 in the song, I guess, and he talks about seeing all of his friends start families and have families and like have day jobs, and yeah, one of the lines is like uh you know, I do I have anybody that cares if I come home at night kind of thing, is what he says. I think I'd probably just butchered that, but he's he's basically saying, like, he's 26 and nobody cares that he's out in a van, like traveling, doing this, you know, they're back home and they have their families and they have just life going on. And Jackson leaned forward to me, he was like, I think I understand what he was talking about in that song, and I was like, You haven't gotten there yet. You're still you're still in the honeymoon. Right. Yeah. I tell him, I was like, you whenever you're laying in the back of the van and you like sort of in my you know, my situation, I was just like, I had like an epiphany, and I was like, I don't what am I supposed to be doing this? Yeah, yeah. You know, and then two years later I was married and trying to start a family. Life has a funny way of like redirecting you. I mean I don't know. We're all in our band, we're all pr I'd say I think it would be fair to say that we're all believers. And we all kind of know that there's going to be things changes, I guess. You know, like like one day he'll hopefully he'll have a family and realize like, man, that was fun, but I'm glad I get to do it then and not have to do it now, kind of thing. There's a uh another Wonder Years line, and I was like I was telling Jackson, and he was like leaned up on me. He's like, dude, I love you guys. Like just he's just like the little pup that's still like wet behind his ears kind of thing. But he was like, I said, Jackson, there's a line that says in the Wonder Years song that says, Nobody gets me except my friend, my friends in the backseat of the van. Uh-huh. Yeah. And I told him, I was like, That once once that clicks, then you'll start to know kind of what we're doing. Yeah. Yeah. He's just young, but it's it's so funny to see like the that early like eagerness to go do this stuff. Yep. No, I I've you know, that was that was us once upon a time. I I have tons of friends where like by the time they got to be 30, I went to Belmont, so I've studied like music business, had friends who are like tour managers, went on the road, all that stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like by the time they got to 30, they're like, Yeah, so this isn't really sustainable. But yeah, for like 20, 20 to 25, extremely fun, energizing. And then like three or four years of like, is this my career? Like, because this is it. This is the resume. And some people can live that life and it's good. But I have a lot of friends who are like, that's how they became like computer programmers. They did all this stuff because they're like, oh, I've been basically doing my band's website for a decade, so I actually know how to code. Oh, I actually know how to do this. How much, how much will someone pay me to code? Oh, well, that's a lot more than I'm making right now. So, like, I think around 30, and a lot of like if you're a band or now, I think around 30 or 32 is when you look up and you go, What was I building? Like, if you guys know who Richard Rohr is, like that uh Franciscan monk, he's very big on that of like, hey, you know what? You're gonna build a life, and at some point in time, you're gonna look up and be like, what wall did I put my ladder against? Like, what what did I just cut? What did I just sprint to the top of this wall for? Yeah. And then you're gonna reassess, move your ladder, move it to a different wall. And that's just part of life is no matter what you do, you're gonna need a moment to look up and be like, what am I building? And you should. You should have a moment in which you look in the mirror and go, what was I trying to build this entire time? What am I doing here? And like, do I am I able to acknowledge the ways in which I can change to a future that I want to be a part of? Or am I just gonna repeat the cycle for the rest of eternity? Right. To get a little philosophical with you, you know? Yeah, I like it. I like it. I like the philosophical. What do you guys do for like day jobs? Like, besides like weak and warrior stuff for tour stuff, what do you do for day jobs? I am in in the simplest of terms, I'm a plumber. Okay. But in the not so simple terms, I I'm a project manager that runs multi-million dollar builds of like right now. I'm doing a apartment complex, like a five-building apartment complex. But we do high rises, we do hotels and yeah, just massive things that you don't think about whenever you're using the shower in a hotel. It's all it's all kind of stuff that I've learned to do over the years. And I don't know, everybody needs to go to the bathroom and take a shower. So I feel like my job, my job is pretty AI proof. Yeah. Yeah. We are very thankful for for you and your ilk, Chris. Yes. Oh, yeah. I I talked to uh Mike Mantione, who's like the guy from the band 5.8 out of like Athens, Georgia. Nice. He's a carpenter. That's what his that's what whenever he wasn't on the road, he just did woodworking stuff and building stuff. And he's like, pretty sure AI can't take this job yet. So they can take my other gig. I like a lot more of playing music, but they haven't figured out this one yet. So I can still be in my family. That's funny. That's cool. So I uh I do budget stuff for clients. It's kind of boring. I just kind of manage budget stuff. I also have like Chris and I also co-own and run common thread records. Cool, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then I have uh I have a PhD, and so I do like academic. I know it's weird. Dr. Steve? I'm so sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So Ben so literally formally this whole time. I'm so sorry. In our group chat, it says Dr. Stanley. That's what his name is in the group chat. I did not select that. Yeah. What's your doc what's your doctorate in? My uh so my PhD is in ministerial leadership. I studied uh this dude, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who was part of the yeah, so the Valkyrie plot to kill Hitler, right? So like, yeah, so I'm very much concerned about like how do you confront government, right? Like how what's the best way to so I've studied Martin Luther King Jr., Oscar Romero, those kind of dudes. So super into that. And then so I I write a lot. I write for like a newspaper and some academic articles and stuff like that. So yep, that's kind of my how I spend my my time. So I went the sledgehammer route, he went the metaphorical sledgehammer route. I you know it works better. What I really love here is the reality that if you have a PhD in religious studies of any form, you still need a side hustle or two. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is true. Multiple side hustles, yeah. Yeah. Chris and I have talked about that. Yeah. About a month ago, I was we were sitting around having pizza, and I'm like, Chris, dude, I I did not understand how expensive this uh education thing is. Like it's it's they need to make more money. Yeah, I know. Like, yeah, so I told him the same thing, and I started another side hustle that's right taking taking it out of me again. You know, I like to I like to build things. Okay, yeah. Yep. That's I'm trying to build many companies, M-I-N-I, many companies, I guess. Mini companies. And Steve likes to discuss the purpose of said companies and what the ethical value of that is. I was gonna say, you have a heck of a world right now to talk about what you're doing, dude. Right. We're in the middle of it now. I I find myself, I think one of my favorite things about parenting with fasting is you have to constantly hold big picture and day to day constantly. And that's what I feel like, honestly, not to make it too about religion or religious studies and everything, but to me, that's what like religious studies is is like, okay, what's the big picture? Why are we here? Now, day to day, am I living out any of this at all? Right. Okay, and you have some work to do here. Yeah, what's the practical application of these philosophical concepts? Yeah, good. Yeah. It's it's funny because like as they they always say as you go through a PhD, your whole family goes through a PhD. Yep. You know, so because like you're always like whatever you're studying, you're constantly talking about. And so like my kids, I feel so bad for them. Like, you know, I'll be like, So the the audience, if you're listening, um, the guy that I studied basically confronted uh the Nazis, right? And so, and he was a pastor and a theologian. And so, you know, I'm my kids are like like 12 and 13 years old, and for whatever reason, the past you know, four or five years, most of the conversations they've had with me of the is like how to confront the Nazis. And like I'm like, I didn't even like realize just how heavy the con you know the the idea was. And then like recently my daughter said something, I don't know, about uh this dude, and and I was you know, about and and how her friends wouldn't even know who he is. And I was I was like, oh, they wouldn't? She was like, Dad, why would they? I was like, Oh, yeah, I don't know what it's like a household topic for us, you know. And I'm like, I don't know. What have I burdened my kids with, you know? Yeah, so pretty much Bonhoeffer is fascinating, and like I think um, I remember reading um I really like it. Do you know who Jamar Tisby is? No, uh okay. He did like this book called Damn it, I'll get back to music. He has this book called It's all good. The color of compromise, which basically goes through the Christian movement of churches and how it was intertwined with racism. So, like the reality of they would lynch people and then have a church service. Like that was reality. And so it's him talking about like all of that world and all of that existence. And that was the first time I'd really like got started to pay attention to like um John Lewis, peaceful protests, and all the intentionality of protests that they did. Because to me, I was just like, You go into cafeteria, you say you won't leave, and it's like, no, they were trained, they went to Mount Eagle, they were intentionally told what to do whenever things escalated and how to de-escalate or not to engage. And it's fascinating. It's fascinating, and and I've said for a while, like this is what's missing in our culture today. We have the fervency, the desire to to protest, to push back, but we don't have the intentionality, the training, and the voice, you know, like somebody guiding that. Yeah, the outrage is there, and I understand it, but we don't have like the the intentionality and the fortitude that that they had in the the civil rights era, which was actually shocking that they did. I mean, it's amazing that they had it, but I wish and you know, and I find that the connection with with punk rock, right? Because that's what Chris and I play. We play that music, and I teach this to my kids too, right? You know, we we should always be questioning authority, not not so much that we want to I'm not an anarchist, but we we should be skeptical of people in authority, you know. Um yeah, I don't know. I don't know where I was going with that. Yeah, I'm just that this very near and dear to my heart. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If anyone looks at me and says from any political side, anyone in life says, I know all the answers, I will automatically look in and say, No, you don't. And like, and I and I'm and I'm not trying to, and it is because of a punk rock influence of growing up and stuff, and being like, no, no, no. If you if you go into a room and say, I know all the answers, like, cool, you're trying to get power, you're trying to get influence, and you're trying to gain something from this room. Yeah, and that usually isn't about my best interest, my family's best interest, or anyone else's best interest that I know. It's your best interest, and I I sure that's I understand that, but I have a hard time with anyone being like, I know the answer to this, unless it's like a very mathematical, scientific. We need to put movie, I guess. We need to put this toilet here. We need gravity to flow like this. I'm like, yeah, that dude's right. Yeah, I'm gonna trust Chris if he tells me where to put the toilet. Dude, so like it's it's funny that it's funny that this is what we're talking about because in our van late night, yeah, it always, it always seriously. I it like I'm not I'm not even just saying it for content. Like it's true, it gets to this. Like we were driving through because I'm very curious, and Steve is much it's Steve's the smartest dude I know, so of course I'm like, hey, I'm gonna go to the city. Now with technology though, not with cameras. Oh no, not at all, dude. Not with anything that matters. No, whatever. I have to put his in-air pack on his butt and like slap his butt for him to go. Oh, okay, here we go. You got it. You're ready now. Like he's got to be. No, but no, like we were, I don't even know where we were. We were driving where were we when you started showing all the Nazi pictures from Germany? Gosh, dude. Like, he's like, yeah, like I was in Germany, because he we we we talked about this a little bit uh at one of the shows we played up in the PW. Steve, like got to go on a trip like to Israel and see in Germany and like see so much. And I'm a huge history nerd, so I'm jealous, very jealous of all of that. He uh he's like, Yeah, you know, over in Germany, he showed us this building, and it's a McDonald's, but it was an old like Nazi leadership building, and there's still like the crest, like the outline of the crest. Obviously, they've taken it down since but there's still like the the crest just that symbolism on the wall, and I'm like, dude, that's like I mean, you know, leave it to like the uneducated as far as like the world goes, American people who just don't travel enough to see that stuff, but like that happened, and that was real. Yeah, that was like these books aren't just like made-up history stories, like this is yeah, and it's a warning, dude. It's a warning like to us, right? Like, yeah, this isn't just something that happened you know, eighty years ago. This happened a hundred years ago, yeah. Right, like this is still and it could happen, you know, here it could happen anywhere, right? Yeah, you've gotta be cautious, you gotta keep your eyes open, you gotta be skeptical, you know. Yeah, yeah. But that's like the that's also my punk rock ethic of, you know, like I don't I don't know, man. Yeah. You know, yeah. And it always to me, punk rock is always communal, also. Like it is taking from to make this the dumbest way to sound possible. You take something from the overlords and share with the people. It's very Robin Hood, right? And so like it is about taking something and sharing it. It's not like, hey, I'm gonna go steal this from the people in power so I can have it. It's like no, because I want everyone to benefit from it. Yeah, I'm not consolidating this for myself. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Agreed. Yeah. The guys from Emery, whenever I had on Devin Shelton, he said late nights in their van also is like this, where they're sitting there like, what do you what do you really think about? And it makes them closer because they're talking about stuff that like is in their subconscious, it's in their mind all the time. But like, you don't just go up to someone and be like, hey, what do you think the ethics of but is? It's whenever you've been on the you've already played a show, you're driving, it's 2 a.m. at night, and you're like, okay, but do you think God cares about blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's literally what that's what our drives in, you know, we don't listen to music a whole lot. I say that. There'll be nights where we'll have these super highbrow talks, you know, and I love it. But then there's nights where I'm literally just in the back peeing myself laughing because I'm putting on like nickelback and ICP and I'm controlling, I'm controlling the van's rate. Yeah. And everybody's like, what is going on to this radio? Like, what is happening? I'm like, I don't know. It just keeps changing. We now Steve tells people all the time, like, we grew up watching jackass. So there's always the prank thing is is real. And we do it a ton, but we also have this like, hey Steve, explain this last hundred years of theology to me in two hours before we get to the hotel kind of thing. And like our our content, our content, or Murphy, her name is Murphy. She has a name. Her name's Murphy. She does. But uh, she like she's the passenger princess, so she always sits up front. Cool. And if she's not asleep, I'll hear her lean over and be like, Steve, and then like ask him some question that just opens the door, and then I just like pause my ear, but I'm like, all right, like here we go. Here we go. Let's see where this goes. You guys don't need a podcast. I love it. You just need to ask Steve questions. That's all you really need. Right, right, yeah. Just what does Steve say is what we'll call it, and we'll just put a mic in the middle of the van. I know. Yeah, I know. That's cool. That to me implies you guys have a good comfort level with each other, and you guys do like because it that's a cool space to have. That's a rare space to have. And even if being on the road is exhausting and tiring to be away from your family, having moments like that, as well as playing in front of people, are probably moments where like, man, this is why I'm doing this. This brotherhood, this love of each other in music is why I'm willing to deal with all the other chaos that comes with it. We've we've absolutely created short of like the outliers that there would obviously be judgment for, but like we've created such a I don't like using the word, but like such a safe space for the five or six of us in the van to be like, hey, like if you have questions, like talk to me about it. Tell me, you know, we'll I will tell you what I know, and then if I don't know it, I'll Steve will tell you what he knows, and just kind of the same thing. It's a very you said Camino earlier, but like I feel like the dudes that we do this with are absolutely like blood to me. Yeah. You know, and it's it's just kinda I don't I don't know that I could ever have some of these conversations with random dudes or like any other ego kind of guy in the van. Yeah. So I love the dynamic that this band has outside of being family, like just being five dudes who are trying to figure out what to do. I love it. It's uh it's a good it's a good time until we get super tired and get so we're what do we start fighting over in what are we fight over in Austin? Oh, the saying. Oh, that's what it was. Murphy and John and Mark are the guitar player, he's he's been driving a lot lately. They started this. I I actually lit the match and just kind of stepped back and watched it happen. But I was like, hey, is it butt of the joke or brunt of the joke? And they both just like fangs out just started going at each other. And then they ended up making their AIs talk to each other. No, and I was like, that got I was like, guys, that's not that's not gonna work at all. And their AIs argued with each other. Like yeah, like objectively, both of their AIs thought and they were both using Chat GPT. You would think, right? But yeah, no, I guess they've both learned each other's and so and they're both saying completely different things. It's such a bizarre, like and here I am sitting back in the in the bench just playing photograph like nine times in a row. I know it was. We're photograph by weezer is like a three-minute song, right? Nickelback. No! Yeah. Look at this brunt of joke. Yeah. And then that's why it's Chris, and then next time just be like, actually, I think it's bud of the joke. I think we've about completely change it. Then you become the enemy. Then you're the one who's ruined everything. I love it. Which is one of my favorite parenting techniques to do when the kids are fighting, is to be like, actually, what about this? And then you redirect all the anger towards you. Yeah. And you're just like, this is better than it was five minutes ago. I try to just shoot the anger towards my wife and just watch that happen. Okay. Yeah, yeah. No, I'm just kidding. Throw her under the bus. Yeah. Oh, we dude, her and I both are speed bumps all the time for each other. Yeah. I'll hear it from the other side of the house. Go ask your dad. I'm like, oh. Here we go. Here we go. That also, though, sounds like Chris, you and I might have been the same, in which I was never the person to get into a fight, but I was the person on the outskirts saying, I bet you won't hit him. And then just one more chaos would weapon. Dude, I yes. Right. And I do it sometimes in our in our van, just kind of being a joke. Just gonna poke. I'm just gonna poke. Yep. Just gonna like the dude that's like, you'll get out of my face, and I'm like, I'm not in your face. I'm just like in your face. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just for fun. I mean, yeah. Until they turn on me and then I get pissed. Then it might be. Okay, this okay, this isn't that fun. Now I hear it. This is not fun anymore. Now I hear it. Right. Yeah. That's funny. Okay. That's funny. In the interest of time, and so you guys can do something else with your night. Maybe actually like talk to your wives, hang out for a little bit, something like that. I'll start wrapping the episode down. So I ask five questions. You guys have to take turns, you know, answering them. They aren't rapid fire. First question is Did you have any backup names for your kids? Like, did you have anything that you almost named your children? Absolutely. Yep. And share them. That's the other part. Don't just say yes and then move on. You have to actually, you know, tell the session. My kids are actually their names are their names, I guess, would be my wife had already chosen the names. And I was like, I don't like those. And so for each, I'm in the same boat. So wait a minute. I would consider the names to be backup names. Okay. But I guess they were like the names that we didn't choose were were the names that she had already like decided in her heart years ago that she wanted. And then as we talked it out, it was like, you know what? I think. So like my son was going to be Levi Isaac, and we named him my name. So he's Stephen Matthew Stanley II. So Okay. And we and she calls him Matthew because she doesn't want to call him, you know, Steve, because there'd be two Steves. And then my daughter was going to be Catherine Elizabeth, but instead she's Rosemary Estelle Stanley. So she's she has her grandmother's names. So yeah, that's what's what the names are. Almost name your son after two tribes of Benjamin, like of Israel. My wife. Okay. My wife. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My wife. Yeah. I'm not trying to tie it into your doctorate, but you need it, you need about 10 more kids to flesh out all the tribes. To really get all of them. You know, I don't know. We could do the Chris thing where, you know, we get a couple twins and work it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Chris, I applaud your efficiency, you know? Right. You know, look, and I it's not to get not to devolve this too much, but I always make the joke that I didn't even get my wife pregnant, but I did it all at once. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I didn't even have to, and I still knocked them all out of the park at once. I don't know what that says about me. Super sperm. Anyway, Chris, backup names for your kids. What what did you almost name your kids? Or what did your wife almost name your kids? Yeah. So I'll preface this with my wife is uh an elementary school teacher. So she sees a billion names, you know, a billion names a year and spelled all different ways and you know, just combinations of names and whatever. So I knew going into the naming part of this that I had already lost. Yep. But I sure as heck stuck my foot in the door as hard as I could and tried to get, you know, get some in there. My oldest daughter, her name is Emerson Grace, and my wife's an English teacher, so the r the Emerson just naturally happened. And apparently I was told when I when I got married, I was told this. That it was already decided before we got married, before she even met me, that this kid's name was gonna be Emerson. Okay. Because of the English, the literature tie. Yeah. So I thought, okay, we have twins, so I have a sh, you know, I I get a second shot. She gets one, you get one. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. This is it's literally it's just one for one here, is what we're doing. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great parenting plot, so by the way. That wall was. And no, never, not not once has it ever backfired. But ironically, the one the baby A is what sh we called her, is a spitting image twin of my wife. And baby B is spitting image of me. Fascinating. So of course I was like, this is my kid. Like, I'm gonna name this kid. That only lasted about two seconds until I said the first name, and my wife shot it down immediately. But I wanted to name her Kennedy and I wanted to name her uh I wanted to name her McKen McKenzie and Paisley. I don't know why I like the Lee's. Yeah, yeah. Paisley, McKenzie, Kennedy. Uh, what else was there? I don't remember. It's been I've slept a lot since then. But we we landed on the first one's name is Emerson Grace. Uh and the middle names are intentional. Because like I said, we're believers, so it's everybody, you know, Grace is a big thing for us. So Emerson Grace, and then my I say it's my choice, but it wasn't even my choice. I got vetoed, and then I think she just made me think it was my choice kind of situation. You got accepted. Yes, exactly. Name septed. Is a uh we named the my other daughter Hadley Marie. Hadley is a town that I lived in when I went to college in Boston. That's awesome. So I was like, yeah, that was my idea. When in reality, it I don't think it was. I think she just kind of, yeah, you know, you know, as dads, you know what you do where you direct a kid to where you want him to think. She she absolutely she did it to me. At 28, uh 32 years old, she did it to me. So her name is Hadley Marie, and Marie is named after I thought it was always because of my mother-in-law's middle name, but apparently it was unintentional, is what my wife said. She just liked the way it sounded. I still don't believe that. But the second child's name is Hadley Marie. And uh there was a lot of names before, except for Emerson, that was already figured out. I had no shot at changing that one. Yep. So that's fair. Next question: Who's your favorite TV or movie dad? Yeah, no I gotta thank. Yeah. You can do first that comes to mind, also, you know. The first that comes to mind is Atticus Finch. Okay. That's just an easy one. Yeah. Jeez, philosophical. Well, uh, Chris, now you can say Jesus Christ or God. Yeah, come on, right. Boy, did you miss that, Steve? I'm just gonna argue listening right now. Right, right now. I was just gonna say Phil Margera. Okay. I'm just gonna say Bamsta. Dude, he's like the epitome of patience. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, he's the epitome of patience. You've seen the scene where he lights off firecrackers in his van when he's going to work. Yeah. Like, I'd be livid. That's probably set there. Hey, Bandit. Bandit, there it is. Bandit's a good one. So Bluey is such a good show. Maybe Phil is the dad that you actually are, and Bandit is the dad, and bandit's the dad you wish you were. That's what I would wear. That's a good there to go. I like that one. That's a shirt right there. Yeah. Well, I mean, bandits honestly, like, bandits are the most common answers, but every dad is like, I can't, I can't live up to bandit, though. Like, I can't. But then someone told me once, they were like, just remember, those episodes are only eight minutes. You can be a great dad for eight minutes. And I was like, I can I can be a great dad for eight minutes here. I will say, side quests. We we have watched all of the Bluey episodes, and the one where they decide to sell the house. Yeah. Killed me. I was like, dude, this is a kid's show, and I'm over here like tearing up. You know what was really great timing about that episode? Dog! Is it came out whenever we're moving from Nashville to Colorado. And at the end of that episode, they decide to stay in their home. So my kids all look at me and they're like, Are you gonna go rip the sign out of the front? And I'm like, and I'm like, thanks and we're not. This is still the plan that we want to. Oh, God. All right. Yeah. Thanks, Bandit. Thanks, Bandit. Every other aspect of this, thanks, guys. Really appreciate it. That's amazing. So I'll say that, yeah. Phil and bandit. Phil and bandit. Next question. What's your replacement curse word? What do you say instead of a curse word, or do you just say the curse word? I have this weird thing where I just don't, I don't curse. So whenever Steve says anything that's like, if he says damn, the the whole van stops and stares at him. If I'm like, if I'm quoting somebody, you know what I mean? Like, oh, so-and-so said this, I'm not afraid to say I just when I was a teenager, I heard way too many ICP songs. Not that I wanted to. Here it's this is literally, this is true. Not my choice. You didn't choose you didn't choose the juggler life with a juggle of life. It's that's terrible. I'm so sorry. So true. So ICP, anytime they cuss, which is way too much, you know. And I'm in a punk rock band, so I hear it a lot. But yeah, anytime they cuss, it sounds like a 13-year-old who just found out a cuss word. Yeah, like it sounds so awkward. Are you, it is, those are the best. And so like early on, it just always sounded so weird to me. It's not like a faith thing, although there is an element there. It's just to me, I was like, you know, I I want to be more articulate about how I feel and stuff like that. So I just don't, I it's just not a habit that I've ever fallen into. But whenever I just say dang it a lot, or like I say ga a lot. Yeah, sound effects. Gah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Blurbs. Yeah, yep. Yep, I get that. I say, I mean, I so I do sometimes, I've gotten better at it, but I do have a mouth outside of the band. Yeah, I'm a plumber. That's true. I'm very intentional when I'm home to watch what I say. Yeah, he's good. And it's funny because the two times that my child has said something bad, my wife's looked at me and I'm like, dude, it wasn't me. And then you and then you ask her, you ask her, like, where'd you hear that? And she's like, oh, this person at school, and I'm just like, right, see, told you it was not me. It was not me. I'm very intentional about it. But like, I I I think I changed mine because like lately I've been saying sheesh a whole lot. Sheesh. So I goes, yeah, I'm like, sheesh. I've been saying it a lot to the point of Hadley, Hadley, Hadley says it now. She walks down the hall and she's laundry out. She goes, Oh, sheesh. Sheesh. I love it. Pick it up, kid. Pick it up. That's awesome. Yeah. I'll say that's mine. That's awesome. Next question. What's like favorite activity or toy that you guys play with your kids? Man, that's good. Hey, so I mean, I I play video games with my kids a lot. That's fun. There's this weird, it's called like Minecraft Dungeons, which it's like an older game, but it's like a four-player game that you could just it's it's a silly kind of third-person view, I don't know, Minecraft game that you can play with kids. It's not like the normal Minecraft game. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so we we play that a lot. Video games are like big in my house. So cool. Yeah. If it connects, it connects. And honestly, it's very different than we were kids playing video games. The opportunities to play online, to have community around it is very different. I have to remind myself of that because sometimes I'm like, no, don't play video games, go outside. And I'm like, this is how kids communicate now, yeah. I'm like, okay, cool. Okay. Right. Sounds good. Yeah, this is connection. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, I gotta update my definitions. Good to know. Yeah, for sure. No, we uh we have gotten into and I played I played the Pokemon trading card game back whenever I was a kid. But now my daughters have gotten into it because they were on YouTube and they saw old episodes and then you know they just they got into it. Yeah. So now we we you know we we do something with cards pretty regularly. Um they like to wake me up at like 7 30 even though nothing's open until about nine. Yep. On the weekends. They like to wake me up and they call we just we go, you know, we go Pokemon hunting, we go to vending machines or stores or whatever. So really kind of that uh and kind of like Steve said, we I have a PlayStation 3 or 5, I don't know, something like that. Which whichever the new one is. Five. Who knows? Five, see, I don't know. Three, four, five, I don't know. You fixed up all of them together. Yes. What's that? What's Matt? Do you have a PlayStation 12? Is that what seven carry the one? Yeah, yeah. But like we'll sit here and play, and one of them loves to play like MCU kind of Marvel stuff. Yeah. And then the other one wants to play Barbie's, so I have to sit and go through both of them video game wise. So like I could tell you how to get to Barbie's dream house from the beach real easy. Nice. Yeah. It's a useful skill. Very much so. So yeah. Okay. And then last question for you is what's your least favorite kid show or movie? Like which one? Whenever your kids watch it, you're just like, oh, I despise this. This is so Caillou. Yes, it's the most common answer. So let's first talk about it. Yeah, what's the most common answer? It is the most common answer. Every dad's hilarious. It is where I will hear, I will go from like, what's your replacement curse word to which show do you hate the most? And they won't use any of the replacement curse words to describe Caillou. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I didn't, I've never really paid attention to that show. And they watched it, they they had it on like I guess their iPad. Yeah. And I heard he he's kind of a little snot. Yeah, that's the issue. He's he's whiny, but then like I was like, why we just decided that Caillou was not something that they watched. So then they started watching this thing called Coco Melon. No, I'm sorry. You just said two for two. You went two for two for what's going on. Yeah, exactly. So the songs are playing. I'm like, man, these are really catchy songs, but I can't stand this show. Yeah. And that like the dad came on, and he the dad was crying about something. I'm like, shut up. Like, what are you whining about? It's just I turned it it. That show made me mean. I was like, dude, this guy is such a pansy. Like, why is he crying? Yeah. To the point of like, yeah, we we don't do any of those shows anymore. Thank the Lord. Yep. My kid, now they're they're too old for coconut mine, but they like to watch it because of how cringy it is. Yeah, it's terrible. It's something that we all love to hate on. Yeah, yeah. It's like a bot weird bonding experience. They'll put it on for a couple minutes and we're all like crack up, and then eventually we're like, yeah, we're done with this. Let's move on. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I also like overanalyze all that stuff and then like wonder why can't I create something like that, you know? And then I'm like, don't because even like the I don't know if you guys know who Danny Goh is, but like Danny Goh has very much a formula in all of his songs, which works, and he does it perfectly. But it's like, okay, no, here's the treasure. Swim to the right. Yeah. Swim to the left. Get on the rock. And you're just like, this is a grown-ass man in a recording base. Just giving directions. That's amazing. There's another one that I I laugh about, and then I found out that they're an actual touring band. And I want to go just to say that I went, but it's just cuckoo kangaroo. But they're actual, like, they're really good musicians, and they go play these songs live, but they do them in like adult clubs. Like, it's not really a kid setting. Weird. What adult is coming out to hear about my pizza song? Like, what the heck? Yeah. Apparently, it's a thing. Once went to Lollapalooza. And Lollapalooza used to have a kid stage. I don't know if they still do. So that's like that one would make sense. Because like I remember seeing um Matt Pryor of the Get Up Kids has his side band called The Terrible Twos, which was his kids' band. And they played that set once because the New Amsterdams were playing Lollapalooza. So I remember walking by once and being like, oh my gosh, is that Matt Pryor playing two children? And I walked over and watched it. But like that's the only scenario as I, as like a kid, a kid in my 20s with no kids about to go to college, would be like, let's go to a kid focused thought like thing. Right. And not get arrested for being for being there. Not get Chris Hansen. Man. Right. Exactly. It's yeah, I don't know. It's I and I listen to these songs, and I'm just like because I think we write catchy hooks in the band that we're in now. But I listen to these songs and I'm like, it's the most simple, dumbest thing you've ever heard, but I cannot stop singing it. Yeah, it's the worst. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. That's why Baby Shark is successful. Yep. Baby Shark. Dude, just naming off people in my family. I I've been doing that for 20 years, but I didn't call it a shark, I guess. Ah, just crazy. Yeah. It's because you didn't you didn't have the dance moves with it. That's why your choreo was really lacking. Yeah. Right. It's it's going to continue to lack, let me tell you that. Now you know you guys need to have the further north TikTok dance trend for you guys, which is just you guys sitting there being like, I don't, I'd like, I'm I'm almost 40. I don't am I supposed to dance? What am I doing? So we we have a there's a and I I don't what section of the song what song is it? I know it's the bridge. Yeah. In my life today, I think. We have a song that there's a part of a song where it goes to the bridge, it's kind of this emo breakdown. This kind of thing. It's like an EDM almost kind of thing. Okay. And then, yeah, and then so like this kind of EDM beat beat hits, and there's no singing or anything, but like the moment that the EDM beat hits, we all just start doing this. Uh, what is it? I don't know, there's Squidward from Spotify. That's it, yeah. The Squidward dance. Just like they didn't tell me they were gonna do it, and I'm like, yeah. They didn't, they didn't, I got zero warning. Everybody apparently knew because our fat our our Murphy had her had the the camera up. She knew what was gonna happen. But I look over, I'm nine 99% of the time I'm stage right on our stage. I look over and I go like this. Literally, everybody's just doing this thing, and I'm just like, what are y'all doing? What I think we started that like a year ago or something, and now we just do every show, and it's so so now they've gotten me into doing it every show now. Yeah. Yeah. I'm surprised somebody hadn't got a shot of that and just been like I know that's the anti-viral, like 40-year-old weird dude thing. Dude. Just do the stinky lane. Just do like some random otts dance move that no one that only like three people will understand. Oh, he's doing the stanky leg right now. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's doing the whip, the name, he's doing the name. There you go. What the backpack kid when he was like flossing for Katie Flyota. Yep. Yeah. I that's that's talented, man. Yeah. That's awesome. And then last thing after he's just like moment for self-promotion. So, like, where do we find your music? Promote yourself, Instagram, all that good stuff. You guys got any tour dates, blah, blah, blah. Promote yourself. We actually, I mean, there's so many things in the works right now. Yeah. So Further North on Spotify, at Further North TX on Instagram and the TikTok. And everything. We finally managed everything. All one. Yeah. So at Further North TX. And then, yeah, like Chris said, we've got a lot of things in the works. I don't think we have anything that we can officially announce, but like road dates. And then we've got new, so many new songs that should be hitting. We just less than 25. 25 or 26. We're excited about. Yeah. What's like is what's the best way to find announcements for that? Do you have like email? Like, do you uh do whatever? Newsletter. That's the word. That's where I was like. Newsletter. Yeah, mail mailing list. No, we uh, I mean, we're pretty good, and Murphy's pretty good about keeping everything on Instagram and TikTok. And then Facebook is just kind of tied or linked to Instagram. We don't ever really get on that. Yeah. But same. Kind of it's it's yeah. It's kind of those three we sort of stay, try to stay relevant on. Yeah. Yep. I mean, we have like everything. We literally have like what's it called, threads that nobody's ever been on, but somehow we post on it. Yeah. If somebody's desperate for a newsletter, go to the Common Thread Records. Yeah. We have one. If you get on that, I send out newsletters anytime we release a song. I send that. But not just with Further North, any of our bands on Common Thread, we put out. But yeah, yeah. If somebody's desperate for a newsletter, go to Common Thread Records and because you know you just want one more spam. It's like one more spam, you know. Isn't it fantastic create something and be like, someone please just notice that I created this? I know. Someone I'm trying here, guys. This year we've uh well no, not this year, I guess last year. Last year was the first real end of the end of last year was the first because we've been at this for eight years now, but last year was kind of the first real swing of like us showing up and playing a show at a venue and the entire front two or three rows of people knowing every word. That's cool. Yeah, that was a good thing. Which was that's crazy. We're like, what's cool? Are you sure we're not used to that? Yeah, like you know that he doesn't even know that. Like, he doesn't even know all the words. That's how you found your backup singer for your gig. You just went to the French two rows and we're like, Can you sing? Can you sing? Can you sing? Can you sing? Travis are tomorrow. My daughter always gets mad when she shows up. She's like, How do they know these songs? I knew these songs so much. I knew them years ago. I'm like, Oh my god. Yeah, okay. Like, I like I don't know what to do with that energy. Are you mad? Like, no. Are you are you indie are you indie hipstering me right now? He totally is. It's like you you know the alternative is right, like your dad's playing to nobody. Yeah, that's yeah, even the bartenders left. Yeah, I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The bartenders quit. No one can think dad's cool. I don't like it. Now Steve has now bought the bar and is running the bar because everyone left so quickly. Yeah. It's the next business venture. Exactly. Right. But hey, that's that's all I've got for you. I really appreciate your time. Thanks for being real. Thanks for laughing about everything. And let me learn about your journeys and what your life is like. Awesome. Always let's let's do it again. Thanks for fun. Thanks for hanging out, dude. Thank you so much for listening to the episode. Make sure to follow us on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube at the Imperfect Dads Podcast. And make sure to give us five stars for every listen to us. Music, editing, and production is all done by me. Make sure to tune in on Mondays and most Thursdays for episodes. This podcast is part of the Never at Phase Network. Make sure to go to NeverAphazNetwork.com to learn more about it.