Episode 244 | Jeff Klemm Mr. Jeff/Diamond Kites/Maid Myriad

On this episode we have on musician Jeff Klemm who you may know for his kids music as Mr. Jeff or his other bands Diamon Kites or Maid Myriad.

We talked about guitar gear, songwriting,  life with 3 kids, going from touring musician in his 20s to having kids, to changing careers to pre k teacher, to writing songs for pre kids, then becoming a full time kids musician.  A lot of this discussion is talking about creativie energy and realizing the depth that exist in kids music. And the difference between playing for adults and kids.  Make sure to check out jeffklemm.com to find his music and tour dates and new music. 

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This podcast is part of the Never A Phase Network, follow them on instagram at @neveraphasenetwork and check out their podcasts like Emo Kids Anonymous  Wasting Time Podcast Certified Fangirl and The Ska Mailman

Transcript

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Welcome to the Imperfect Dads Podcast. This is your host, Devin. We believe dads care deeply about their family and kids, but they don't always have a space to discuss what their life looks like. Our podcast is a space for dads to discuss the ups and downs of fatherhood and how they feel like they're holding it together, or how they're not. Thank you for joining us for this episode. This podcast is part of the Never A Face Network. Make sure to follow him on Instagram or go to the website neverface network.com. On this episode, we have on musician Jeff Klim, who you may know from his kids' music as Mr. Jeff, or his other bands, Diamond Kites or Married Myriad. We talk about guitar gear, songwriting, life with three kids, going from touring musician in his 20s to having kids, to changing careers to pre-K teacher, to writing songs for pre-K kids, and becoming full-time kids' musician. A lot of this discussion is talking about creative energy and realizing the depth that can exist in kids' music and the difference between playing for adults and kids. Make sure to check out JeffClem.com to find his music and tour dates and new music, and you can find that link also in the show notes. Just like one more thing. Oh, my bad. Hey, Jeff, welcome to an episode of The Imperfect Dads. Thanks for being on. Thanks so much for having me, Devin. It's so good to be here. Okay, so back to talking music. So whenever I was like in college, since I went to Belmont, school in Nashville and everything, I assumed if I didn't have like a Taylor, a Martin, something like that for acoustics, then like what am I doing trying to write a song? Then I saw David Bazan, Pedro Lyon play a set, and he's playing like epiphone SGs, like not these fancy, really classy guitars, maybe like three, four hundred dollar guitars. And that's whenever I realized, like, if you have a song and you have the motivation, you can you don't need a $2,000 guitar. And honestly, I'd be terrified to play $2,000 guitar. So I don't but I think it's easy to like when you get into like you're like, oh, why can't I be creative? Why can't I focus on anything? It's like, well, it's because you haven't you haven't invested enough, you haven't bought the guitar, you haven't bought the piano, and it's like, no, you just haven't created the rhythm and the habit. So just do that first. No, I'm 100% with you. I come from punk rock, so it's always buy something that works well and isn't the worst, but is certainly not the best. Like, get what you can get and then put in your hours to make it sound good. And, you know, I mean, I bought some really nice things too. But like generally, I think my rule of thumb is to stick to that. I can get this mid-level thing and really, really dial it in and find where I want it to sound good. And that will be like that's just that's just how I always am. And especially like being a teacher, when I'm talking to parents and they're like, all right, we want to buy our kid a guitar, and I'm just like, here's the top tier. You don't need the top tier. Get middle or lower down and like just put have them put their hours in on these instruments before you go and splurge on the whatever, the big thing. Yeah. Yep. What's your okay? So uh besides wanting a Martin guitar for the longest time, I always wanted and got it uh post-college. I love semi-hollow body telecasters and like fender amps with a really clean reverb is like my go-to guitar tone. What have you what's your go-to guitar tone? We're gonna start before parenting, we're just gonna talk guitar guitar shop for a bit. I love it. And honestly, I don't get to play electric guitar out live that much anymore. So this is really exciting because it was such a huge part of my uh musical vocabulary was guitar gear. So my go-to is uh a Vox AC30 or Vox AC15. I love them. I have two, an AC30 and an AC15 for no reason. Um you never know. Well, the old one I took on tour for like, I don't know, five, ten years. So it is just it is just torn to shreds. And the AC15, I was like, it'll be easier to carry and it looks nicer. But then I'm also a huge fan of fender either tellies or strats, but with double humbuckers. So like I'm not a single coil fan. I like the double humbuckers because it like it sounds like a Gibson but plays like a Fender. That's kind of like my special guitar sound. Yeah. I keep on having, since I lived in Nashville and have like all these music friends, I have a couple people have like like uh Sadler Vaden from Jason Inspiel's band just did like a Gibson SG of his. And I'm like, Sadler, we're gonna you can gift me one, right? Like you can, he's I we don't have that type of friendship, but one day I'm gonna create a musician friendship. Well, they'll just gift me guitars and I'll share the love if I can. I love that. Yes, yes. Just pass them on down. Yeah, of course. You know how it's supposed to work out. So how long have you played music for? Or is that is music your main gig? Are you a teacher and then do music whenever it makes sense to? Yeah, so music is my first love. I started playing when I was 14. I saved up, I worked all summer to save up and buy that bass right there. It's full of stickers now, but it was obviously not full of stickers when I got it. And I put in probably around my 10,000 hours on the bass before I moved on over to guitar because it was easier to write songs. You know, uh I played bass in a band. Like basically in high school, we come from a high school where we didn't have much to do, and there was like, you know how it is with the sports, but like our sport was making bands. So we actually had a lot of bands in our high school. So that was kind of our sport was the band. It really, really taught me work ethic, like being in the room every Thursday from X to X and gigging on the weekends. So we were like, we started playing our instruments. We wrote a couple songs, we got a couple covers, and we just started gigging right away. So it really was a crash course. And then um Where'd you where'd you where'd you grow up before you uh answered the second half of the question? What what area of the country did you grow up in? Northeast Ohio. So I grew up in Ohio. Stowe, Ohio, and it was only like a 10-minute drive to Akron, which where where we where we started playing gigs in like 40 minutes to Cleveland. So there were obviously no venues in our small town, but we would we would go to Akron and Cleveland and gig all the time, playing with we we just opened up for all sorts of crazy bands in high school. Yeah. It was wild, it was really fun. That's awesome. That's cool. But anyway, day job. Sorry, interrupted you asked where you where you're from. But yeah, yeah. Um, day job now or day job then? What day job now. Let's do day job now. Yeah, so my day job now is children's music. Awesome. Um it's it's so much fun. I love it. And then my night job is I sing in a wedding band. So it's like I'm full-time in music, and they're like all different sides of the creative coin, but also playing for drunk adults, playing for toddlers. There's parts of it that are the same job, honestly. They're not totally the same, but there's parts of it that are very similar. So that's fun. That's accurate. That is very accurate. Yeah, so I mean, I I love getting to play music for kids. It was not something that I like really saw myself doing up until it actually happened, but it really is the most fun I've had playing music since high school, really. Yep. Yeah, that's for all the musicians who do kids' music that I've interviewed. That seems to be the consistent thing, is like that no one like set out to be like, you know what, I'm gonna be a children's musician. There's like, I'm randomly songs, I'm a preschool teacher, I'm such and such, and so this is what my world is. And then they kept having their friends be like, you should like, you could probably do this as a career, man. Like, this is good stuff. So it's it's interesting to see how people end up in performing children's music. Yeah, and for me, it was like my son was born and we were listening to kids' music, and uh, I had only been listening to the mainstream stuff, and I wasn't digging it, you know. It wasn't until I dug deeper and then I found the good stuff. And I think you could say that about a lot of mainstream styles of music, but it was I definitely had to dig deeper, and I'm like, all right, here's the good stuff. But yeah, I saw I I just as a songwriter, I felt like I could add something yeah special and unique to this space. And when my son was born, we were listening to music and I needed a career change, so I became a preschool teacher. Yeah, this is the fast version. Yeah, yeah. I became a preschool teacher, and then I am a musician in a preschool classroom, just makes sense to start playing for the kids. So started small, and then just more and more kids came in, more and more, and then I'm just all of a sudden playing for the whole school, like every week. And parents are like, when's your next gig? And I'm like, this doesn't leave this school. Like I only do this here because outside I'm like a real musician. Like I'm like a grown-up musician outside of this school. And they're like, nah, you should do shows like this. This is good. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's it's oh I feel like no matter what career path you have, whenever you realize like what someone's willing to pay you to do, you're like, oh, you would give me money to do this? Huh. Let me rethink my relationship with this. Because before I thought it had to be like some, like, oh, now I have to rethink how I feel about this. Cause like I I always feel like uh whenever I work jobs, like I'm phenomenal at really boring stuff, like data entry, keeping stuff accurate, spreadsheets and stuff like that. I don't want to be paid well to do that because it's very boring and numbing to me. But people were willing to pay me to do that. So I'm like, I like eating and living somewhere. So yeah, I'm gonna figure, yeah, okay, I guess I'll do this for a bit. That's the job. That's the job. Turns out people like eating and sleeping in the same place consistently. I don't know. It's a weird concept. It's good to do that. And honestly, for somebody who did not have that for many years, like it is I I I recognize the like how amazing it is to have that because I was on tour, but my my uh indie rock band was on tour like a third of the year for like I don't know, a couple years, three, four years straight, something like that. So we were on the road so much, and then we were recording and things that it was like I didn't even have an apartment. I like sold all my all my material possessions, lived in the van, lived in my studio, and then was just doing that. So when I finally like settled down, it's like this is nice. It's nice to have like a little mess over here and I gotta clean it up and I'm upset about it. But like it's great to have that. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, I feel like I've got tons of friends who like uh in their 20s, tried the gigan, tried everything. And then yeah, as they got closer to 30, we're like, you know, this isn't sustainable. Or like uh talked to some musicians where like, yeah, after the band, after seven years of doing it, didn't take off the way we thought we would, we all took a break and started families. And I'm like, yeah, if I worked the same job for seven years and didn't see growth opportunities, I'd probably be like, I should rethink what the heck I'm doing here. But like for music and creative stuff, it always has a different tone of like, but what about your passion? And it's like, I just lived on my passion for like seven years, and like I need to be able to eat more, so gonna switch it up. Right. Especially when you start having kids, then it's like it's not just about you. So you gotta you gotta make it not about you. Correct. Well, I mean, like if you are if you're married and you're on the road, that's one relationship to negotiate and figure out, and like yeah, flying your wife out to a show or something like that, that you can figure that out. Once you start having kids, that's a different thing. And like it it would feel like um creating more damage than fun, happy memories. So yeah. Yeah, the the cool thing about doing kids' music is the kids love coming because it's so fun for them being that dad's up there, but also they get to hang out with all these other kids that love it so much. Yeah. So they're like, they walk in and because they're a part of my project, yeah, they are the rock stars too. Everyone's just like, you're this one, you're that kid, you're oh my goodness. They're just like, they so they they get to feel like rock stars too, which which which might be the secret sauce if you're listening. For for like your day-to-day life, do you mostly play around like your town where you live in, or do you travel and like do uh gigs out of state that much? Mostly within like a five-hour bubble of from where I live. But I have tr I do travel frequently for this. So um like Chicago, Kansas, LA, New York, Jersey. Yeah. I mean, it's it's really fun, but I'm able to stay relatively close to home doing this, which is which is good. Yeah. That is. And I haven't even asked yet how many kids, ages, all that good stuff. Yeah, Devin, I have three kids. You have three kids, too, right? Yep, yep, yep, yep. Okay. I have three. My first Silas, the boy, he is about to be 10. Um, and my middle girl, Juni, she is about to be five. They are born on the same day, five years apart. So we're celebrating the big 10 and the big five in a month from today. So it's super soon. And then my youngest Jonah boy, he is two. Okay. Like freshly two. So I'm almost ten, almost five, and two. That's where that's where we live. What about you? Yeah, I have a 10-year-old daughter, eight-year-old daughter, and four and a half-year-old son. So we've been out at diapers for I think a year now. And I am not gonna lie, it is it is nice. It is nice to there's still some bum wiping that needs to happen from time to time just to make sure everything's clean. I'm not gonna act like that doesn't happen. But to not have like the the kid wakes up and the diaper is just like basically on the ground because it's so full of pee and god knows what. I don't do that anymore. And I am appreciative of that chapter being closed. I'm so happy for you. Feel like we're my two-year-old is like, like today, he's like, go potty, and he started pulling down his pants. I'm like, this is great. Let's go! Come on, let's do this. Because like we've tried introducing it to him, and we've got a bunch of cool books over there. Mm-hmm. And like the other ones just like were like, Okay, I'm gonna go potty now. And we're like, okay, let's help you with this. But he's just kind of like, he's just cool, chill with with us doing his diapers. So today, when he was like, and he's very independent with almost everything else. So I think it probably just hasn't like totally crossed his mind that he can do this now. So today he was like, Oh, go potty and just started pulling his pants. I'm like, Great, we're gonna do this in here now. And like yeah, that's that's where you do this, and let's keep it going. So maybe we're on the way to diaper free, but yeah, not sure yet. I we always treated it like daytime and nighttime were very different. So, like, if we didn't have accidents during the day, that's great. And we'd put like the overnight dough diaper on them before they go to bed. Because like already, man, we tried to do with one of our kids where like we'd wake them up at like 11, so then make them go pee. But like the whole process of getting your kid to finally fall asleep is so much some days. Last night, I'm not waking that kid up at 2 a.m. I'm not risking them waking back up and being ready to play. I need them to sleep so I can get a break and get my own sleep. 100%. Yeah. Overnight diaper, even though you're diaper free, put that overnight diaper on until they're like actually ready. I'm I'm so with you. So with you on that. And I think it's fine. And like, it's just because like I think a lot of parenting is realizing what moments are gonna make you annoyed and mad and avoiding them if you can't. So like if I have to wash the bed sheets three days in a row because my kid genuinely isn't big enough to like have a bladder big enough to sleep through the night, just put a just put the overnight diaper on him. Like, stop making yourself mad every morning because your kid is where they are. Stop it. Yeah, I think that's a really good advice to live by if avoiding things that are gonna make you mad if you can, you know, like I think that's great. That's definitely something to do to relieve the stress. Avoid it. Avoid well, I mean, like, and I'm not trying to influence or promote avoidant behavior, but to know yourself and to know like this is gonna piss me off if I do this or if I end up here. So, hey, how do I avoid that version of myself? Is more, you know, if I want to try to frame it where I'm not just conflict avoidant in this scenario. Right. But it's not conflict avoidant, you're also meeting them where they are and not where you want them to be. So like it is it is psychologically great in on both ends of those spectrums. So whether it's self-serving or you're standing up for the kid and where they are, yeah, yeah. Even though that's TBA. That's I'll find out in about 20 years, is what I think. Is that is that about the timeline? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Dad, you blah, blah, blah. You what? What about you never let me try this? It was like, because I was a jerk whenever you did that, and I didn't want to be a jerk to you. So I was trying to help you. I was trying to make fun memories. I was wrong, apparently. So for making kids music, what's your like okay, I know like if you're an indie rock musician of sorts, normally you release an album every two to three years, something like that. Is it a similar like cycle of create, tour, press, all that stuff, or is it different? Because I feel like kids music is a whole different creature that you deal with. Yeah, so I don't know what the exact right answer is, but I know what I've been doing, and what I've been doing is probably not sustainable, but it's just kind of pouring out of me, and I feel like I'm in a flow, so I'm gonna ride it. I've been doing, so I've been doing an I did two albums in 2024, an album in 2025, and then I've got another one that I'm wrapping up right now. So like it's it's an album a year essentially. The second one that I released is a solo, it's like a lullaby solo piano version of the first one. So like I think it counts, but also it's like if we're looking at batches of songs, it's like I did a batch of songs in 24, a batch of songs in 25, and a batch of songs in 26. And then as far as like press tour, it's pretty much the same. You build up to the release, you go out and you tour, you play the songs. The cool thing about kids' music is that it's evergreen because like the audience turns over every five years. So then you got a new group of kids, and you can play those same songs, and it's brand new to these kids and these parents. So when I'm writing, I'm trying to keep that in mind. Yeah. Can I play this 15 years from now and be happy with what it is? Because, like, I mean, I've I've seen kids' musicians that have been in the game like 30 years and they're still going back to their hit from 1986. And like, it just is a banger, you know, today. So, like, I'm I I I always keep that in mind. So it's very similar. There's like a there's a video element to kids' music that like is sort of like indie rock music. Like, you gotta have the music video, but it's really not a music video. You just have to have some type of video for the kid to see and enjoy, which is a constant internal struggle as someone who like is iffy about screen time, or at least is trying to make things that are good screen time and not brain rot. You know, like it's you really gotta focus on not making brain rot. Because I mean, you could get millions and millions of plays with brain rot, like because so many people do, but then you like lose, it's just not who I want to be. I don't want to be brain rot or AI kids' music. Like, I want to be all human, good stuff that I know that parents are like, this is cool, this is informative, this is educational and silly, and it doesn't suck. Like, yeah, that's kind of what I'm going for. Yes. Well, I mean, because yeah, I think every parent now has their own relationship with YouTube for their kids, where like you try a couple times to be like, oh, let's do YouTube, but then you're like, I think that was an all-AI video. What is this? And then as you're watching, your kid is like, I love this. And you're like, no, actually, I don't think we should watch this anymore because it's it's kind of garbage. Um, and I think it's destroying your mind with dopamine hits that you aren't ready for. So, and then so yeah, if if you're creating stuff for the kids' space, you're like, okay, how do I make this? I know kids' attention spans are not the what they used to be, so I have to make it somewhat quick pace and make it entertaining, but also not so entertain Ugh. That sounds like a lot to manage. Yeah, yeah, it is. And like my ex because I'm I edit all my own videos. My experience is coming from like a rock group making like quick cut music videos. So, like the first music video I did is like chaotic, like the song is kind of chaotic, so the video is really chaotic, quick cuts and wild, and we're running around the library, and it's like it is it is very fast paced, and I'm proud of it, but like I also bring my kids to that same library, and they're just like, sweet, we can run around because we saw you do it in the music video, and I'm like Oh, that's on me. That's on me. So yeah, that's on me. So I'm I'm constantly learning as I go at for like what I do want to put out in in the video space. It's and then like as a kids musician, like we're we still have to make content to promote it. So like I do. Yeah. Who are you who is it for? Is it for the kids? Is it for the grown-ups? Yeah. You just you're constantly you constantly have to think about who is it for? What is it meant to do? Is it good? And is it good for the world? When I was an in when I was a rock musician, it's like these are emotions I felt and I wrote a song about it, and it was cathartic for me. Yeah. And if people connect to it, that's great. But now when I'm writing a song, it's like, well, this is meant to, this is a movement song. It's stop and go. And there's the objectives here are gross motor during this section and fine motor during this section. And we're doing social emotional at this part. Yeah. And blah, blah, blah. So like there's there's really clear objectives when I'm writing songs versus like I'm sad. I mean, but so you're telling me that whenever you were an indie rock musician, you didn't chart out your songs based on emotional health and development for 20-year-olds? That wasn't your like, where's your brain development now? Isn't what your uh like ethos was of your entire band for some reason? Yeah, we weren't really doing social emotional development with uh with my rock band, you know? No, is there one that does? I don't know. I think. I went to like a punk rock show out here in Denver like a month ago or so, and like the lead singer was like, this song's about anxiety. And in my head, I was like, no one, whenever I was growing up, admitted a song was about anxiety. You just wrote about like no one said that. That wasn't a thing. These kids are gonna be so much more emotionally developed than I ever will be. This is great. It's true. It is it is great that there's a huge movement of people that are saying the things out loud and identifying and being okay with and owning it. So I love it. I think the kids are on to something with that. I do too. That's also really the children, the use. That's also really cool to know like the intentionality of your music to be like, okay, I want to focus on social emotional, I want to focus on because like I I like Justin Roberts a lot, and I feel like he does like really great storytelling with all of his stuff of like point of view from a child from the parent, and like all of that. It's very sweet and very intentional. But like most of the time, whenever I hear other types of kids songs, it's like, now we're gonna jump to the right, jump to the left, now dance. And I'm like, okay, this is a very basic song, but I don't think of it in my head of like, hey, what are they actually practicing? What are they learning by doing this? I'm just like, my kids are having fun dancing, and that's that's good. So I'm gonna focus on that instead. Right. I think when Justin Roberts was one of those artists that I found when I was first starting out, where I was like, this is what I want to, this is the lane that I want to be in because he's so thoughtful and intentional and like really, like he's so clever. He's like, he's like Beatles clever. Like he's read, I I assume, and I I'm friends with him and went to his house. So like I know Justin, great guy, but like he's so intentional with his songwriting that he wants it to be good for kids and grown-ups. It's like that's the lane that I wanted to be a part of. I'm like, this guy knows his stuff in songwriting and playing and structure and yeah, child development and all of it. So huge fan. My daughter's second birthday, or maybe it was, I think it was her second birthday was unicorn themed. So we used his unicorn song just over and over again. Yeah. Well, I always I always I always tell people like I feel like he's like if the mountain goats did like a children's like album or something like that. Because it's very like, I feel like he has a wide range, he's got very intentional lyrics, and they both have nasally singing voices. So I just always think of the mountain goats whenever I listen to him. And that's that's a compliment in my book. Totally. And like like and I think with half of my half or 75% of my stuff, I think if you weren't if you were not told explicitly it was kids' music, you would either like it for what it was or be like, nah, I'm not a fan of this, you know. But like with Justin, I feel like about 95% of his music, if you were not explicitly told this was a kids' music album, you'd be like, this is just great music, you know, which I think is a testament to his ability to speak to both grown-ups and kids. And that's something that that's a page that I, you know, that I read off of his music and many other artists like. I think it's been one of the coolest things about doing this podcast is being more connected with uh people who do children's music and just finding how much depth there is. Because in my mind, there's always like, all right, I gotta listen to a lot of Disney music, which honestly are mostly scored by people who write musical. So like that's not a bad thing. But like to realize the amount of depth and how much I can relate to the fatherhood experience through children's music is something I did not realize until like two years ago, honestly. Yeah, that's that's really interesting. I guess when I first started listening, it was like, all right, we got all the soundtracks and all the Disney, and it's like this is great, but like, are they parents? Are they just doing their magical Disney filter on something? Which they are, but also it's amazing. There's so much good Disney music, it's incredible. But yeah, I I love that you seek out human experiences by dads that are making kids music, you know? Yep. Pretty much, pretty much. So if your son is about to be 10, he's about to be 10, he's not 10 yet, right? He's about to be 10, yeah. How are you feeling about having a son who's or a kid who's been around for a decade? Have you processed that at all? Of how because my daughter turned 10 this year, and I'm still like, I've been like one, I've been a dad for 10 years. Two, you've been alive, like we've kept you alive for 10 years. This is what? What is this? Yeah, well, I guess I knew I was gonna be a dad for 10 years because, you know, but yeah, I have not processed him being 10 years old. It's it's wild. You know, we were we went to right before this taping, I went to taping. I still say taping. I actually recorded this tape. I've got a tape reel back there. Thank you. It's got a two-inch. Yeah, that's what's we're recording. And then everyone that listens to it has to put it on a VHS or a floppy disk. I guess three people listen to this. Yes, go ahead. So before the taping today, um, I was at my son's fine arts show. His school put on a fine arts show. So we went there and we're looking at all this elementary school art. And I find my son's, and he's super proud, and we're looking at it, and I'm like telling him all the things I like about it. And it's just like he was so proud and so excited. And then we just started looking at the fourth graders, the fifth graders, the sixth graders, like all like we started looking, and it was just some of the art is like really deep. Yeah. Like I couldn't even believe how deep some of the art is. So in those 10, 11, 12 years, they have really, really learned to express themselves and be via art. It's just, it's, it's unbelievable. So that's fresh on my mind. 10 years, I don't even know. I mean, in the 10 years that he's been alive, I I think I've done like a total 180 with my life personally. So it's um I I see the work and I see the numbers on like my days go up. So I and if I'm viewing it through the lens of me, it's like I've grown so much alongside him and kind of, you know, like we don't we don't have the manual on how to be a dad. I mean, if we could read what to expect, but yeah, yeah. It's like I'm learning how to do it along. So maybe it'll be better with the other kids. Yeah. But really, that's why you have two more, or you have one or two more. So you can be like, okay, didn't know what I was doing. I still don't know what I'm doing, but I more confidently don't know what I'm doing with the other two. Yeah. And and I can say that because I'm the oldest of five. So like I was the guinea pig, I got, I got all the BS, and then it was like by the time they got to to you know, the last two, it was smooth sailing. Yeah. You are you were being more the parent. In those scenarios, I feel like if it's the oldest of five, it's like I was more your mom and dad towards the end there because your parents were so checked out in those in a lot of those scenarios. You don't have to comment on that. No, you don't you're gonna I I was gonna ask you, yes. I was gonna ask you for your timeline and everything. Did you have your son, your oldest while you were still on the road and then a couple, and then like a little bit of that. Then were you like, hey, I need to get off the road, I need a career change? Is that kind of how your timeline worked out? Pretty much, yeah. So he was born very recently, very yeah, we were still touring. We were signed to a booking agency, and we were going out on like six, four to six weeks week tours. Like we our biggest one was a six-week tour. It was like 45 shows. It was wild. Damn. Yeah. And then we did some other tours. We were working on our next record, and then he came along and we did some work on the record, and then, you know, right before he turned a year old, I decided to get sober. Cool. I was like, I gotta, I gotta change. I hit my version of rock bottom, and I'm like, something has to change. I've gotta change because this is not the dad that I've always I'm not the dad that I've always wanted to be, because I've always wanted to be a dad. Now he's here and I'm messing up. I'm not not who I can be for him. So I'm like, I gotta quit drinking. And I did, and I have, and I haven't gone back. So it's been almost nine. Thank you. Thank you. It'll be actually in a little over a month, it'll be nine years of sobriety. Yeah. Crazy. Yeah. But so when I got sober, I mean, my whole life was designed to be in a bar, Devin. Like my band was on tour where we play clubs and bars. I came home, I was a sound engineer. Where was I at? Clubs and bars. My band would play. I would play out solo acoustic. I would do all these, you know, gigs at home. Where were they at? Clubs and bars. So I was always at clubs and bars. I just had to get out. I had to do something else. So the transition in a preschool teaching was so random, honestly. I decided I needed a career change. I was freshly sober. I'm like, I don't know what I'm gonna do, but I gotta do something. Like, what am I good at? Music. Okay, well, what am I gonna do? Like teach, blah, blah, blah. And then my friend, she posted some stories on her social media of her classroom and all the cool activities and the kids and things going on. And I was like, wow, that looks so fun. And she's like, Do you really think so? And I'm like, that looks like a blast. I would love to do that. And she's like, well, you should apply. And I'm like, I have no credentials. Like, I'm a dad and I'm the oldest of five and the oldest of like 20 cousins. So like I've always been around kids, like and entertain kids, and like, but like, I don't have any credentials. She's like, just apply. Come talk to them, see what happens. And they offered me a job, and I took it. And there was like a three-month waiting period from when I got the job to like when I started. So I really like honed in on learning early childhood stuff and got got a credentialed and everything. And it really just changed my life. Yeah. That's awesome. So the first like year I was there, I didn't even play music for the kids, other than like the music we sang in the classroom, because I really just wanted to focus on uh learning how to be a good preschool teacher and learning about what it takes to do that. Yeah. And also like you can manage a crowd. Like managing a crowd of people with an instrument is one thing. Managing, I've played guitar in my son's pre-K before. And yeah, sitting there in front of like 10 to 12 kids as they're kind of just staring at you in awe, and you're like, oh, I could literally just strum nothing. I could strum open for five minutes and all of you would do this. It's just a different, it's a different performance, it's a different connection. Everything about it is drastically different and really cool. But also like, I'm like the the forward isn't gonna come up and be like, actually, your word choice on the second verse didn't connect with me. You know, is that it's not that's not a conversation you're gonna have. Yeah. Yeah, then and and that's one of the things I like to say because what my my rock band, we got into like kind of the prog metal scene. So when like I think on our last couple tours, there was a lot of this. Yeah, in the back end people just I mean, we were playing odd time signatures, so they'd they'd be like trying to find the one and like this. Yeah. But with kids, I mean they're like Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So like that's why the song that you were talking about that was like jump to the left, jump to the right, like that is like a classroom banger for that age group. You could you could play that in a classroom for 40 minutes, and if they had the energy, they would follow you the whole time in that classroom. So it's it's just a matter of where their brains are. Like if they if if they could barely jump jump to the right, but they love trying to do it, they're gonna try and try and try. Yep. And the simplicity of it is so beautiful and like so lost as you get older. Because, like, yeah, in my head, I'm like, well, I don't want to just know like that I should jump to the left. I want to like, I want to have an inward experience of what my leg feels like as I jump. You know, like I'm looking for all this depth. Yeah, my four-year-old is just like, oh, the floor's lava. Hell yeah, I gotta jump. I gotta get out of here. I'm I'm about to drown in lava. Get me out of here. So it is such a different mental shift to be like, no, this is enough for this, as opposed to my own personal artistic needs, which are very needy and should not be put on anyone else. So my artistic needs are also needy. So it's constantly a battle in my brain when I'm songwriting for the kids, because it's like, because my thing is like like in the vein of Justin Roberts. Like, yeah, I know that like I love listening to him as a parent and as a songwriter. I'm like, this is great. Yeah. And my kids love listening to him because it's stories and it's fun. So like when I'm making music, I need to try to get that middle ground of I want parents like my age to be like, hey, this sounds like this sounds like stuff that I listened to when I was in high school or whatever. Yeah. And the kid to be like, this is really fun. And I've never heard this in kids' music. So like I try to marry those together as best as I can to hook the grown-up and help develop and hook the kid, you know? So it's it's it's a fine line between what my artistic brain is happiness, is is happy with and like what I believe these kids need. So I I kind of have to like pick a lane sometimes when I'm in a song. It's like, do I want this line to be silly, fun, or clever? Or easy? Which which row do I take? I I'm constantly at that fork. Yeah, yep. And then you're and then in my head, I'd be like, but I can layer strings on top of this, can't I? Like this song could use a cello and a four-string quartet, right? I do that. Oh, I definitely do that. On this, on this album, Devin, it's it's so crazy. And I don't know why I'm doing this, but like I I have a full marching band on a track. Were you listening to some okay go or something? What were you doing? Very similar, very similar to that tune. And then and then I I do have a full string quartet, honestly, on two songs on the new album. So like you said it as a joke, but I'm like, I'm swearing I'm doing that. I totally get it. I totally get it. It's well, because I listen to like all these, I listen to like the national a lot, and it's like, oh, when you add strings to this song, it's beautiful and adds depth and layers and like it's fantastic. And like I also, I mean, like, I make my kids listen to vinyl and listen to music with headphones on because I want them to understand like a sonic landscape is a beautiful thing to get lost in. And that's the thing, like, even though it's like okay, kids' music is simple. We can say that some kids' music is simple, but like the complexity within that simplicity is what makes it super beautiful. So, like, that's why that's why kids' music works so hard to make their stuff like cleverly and like cleverly complex. This is a kid's song, but there's there's a crazy synth part there that's played on like a real MOOG, you know, like in a real studio. Like, we did that because we we want it to sound good. So, like I have not taken any shortcuts with sound on my albums. I think that it's like as a producer, as somebody who produces my own self, I'm like, yeah, like take away the kids' music aspect. Like, I'm super proud of the production. Like, I think the sound is great. So I'm super proud of that. I don't think that there was any like corners cut. So I think I think that uh this new record I think will showcase some of those. And kids are gonna learn to like it. Oh my gosh, what is this? It's a quartet. Let's go to the orchestra. Great, get them to the orchestra. Like they need this this various things. Like people were like, Mr. Jeff does rock kids' music. And I'm like, yeah, I do do that, but I also do this and I also do that, and I also do more. So that's something I'm trying to showcase on this next record. And also, we no longer live in a world where like um genres matter as much. Because like I I grew up listening to like the Get Up Kids a lot, which is you know, pop punk emo, whatever. And then their lead singer did like a solo acoustic album as the New Amsterdams, and it was like, how dare he do that? And it's like he's just writing Americana tunes, like it's not that big of a deal. But like in the early 2000s, it was like, you're not allowed to do this, and now it's just kind of like, I don't know, where you listen to a lot of country music, like that's cool. Like, there's beauty to be found here, so let's go find that instead of assuming if you don't sound the way I need you to sound, this album's trash. Yeah, I really do like that people are more open-minded now because especially in an A, and I don't really want to get into like super AI stuff, but like when in a world of AI, it's like you'll take anything human. Like, especially when people I like respect as artists. There's a lot of artists that I love that I'll follow them into wherever, wherever they go, whatever direction they go. I'm here for it. So even if I don't necessarily like it, or if it's not my total cup of tea, I'm gonna follow them and be like, I love you as an artist, I'm coming with you. Yep. So um I love that fanatic in me. Like, and I assume that's with you too, where it's like, I love these artists, I'm gonna go with you. Yep. Uh the best example I'll give you is Age of Odds by um Sofion Stevens, in which he goes from writing very delicate, acoustic, indie folk pop music to this very claustrophobic, like cinematic feeling album looks like a lot of synth, a lot of like everything. And whenever an artist does that type of turn, hopefully what I normally do is just be like, oh, what'd they go through? Because clearly they went through something if like this is what they wrote. And for that one, he like had a nervous system disorder. He forgot how to write music, so he had to change everything about his writing process to do it. Now, whenever I listen to it with that in mind, I'm like, oh my gosh, you had to overcome so much to write this album, as opposed to just being like, what's this synth part doing here? You don't play synth, you're Sophia and Stevens. Yeah. I like that record that because it was it was the double album, right? That one was, I don't know if it was double or not. It is just the last song is 26 minutes long. So it has like four movements to it. So no, it is it is a journey and it is fantastic, but it is like synthy weird. There's a lot of like string parts. It feels very claustrophobic, which I always felt I always assume was intentional because he felt claustrophobic in his own body. And he like mirrored that with like string parts and like all this stuff, and it is that album with headphones is a fantastic journey. I'm gonna listen to it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I love Illinois and I mean we I love Sufyan. So yeah. I'm gonna start wrapping up the episode. So, how I how I end every episode is ask every guest a series of five questions. It's not rapid fire, so you don't have to don't you're good. If you have if you have to take time to think about it. So, first question is Did you have any backup names for your kids? Like, did you have anything that you almost named them? Yes and no. So, all three of my kids, the first name that we picked or liked is the one that we named them. So cool. It's like we it's like we we got them right away, and then we're like, wait a minute, this is too soon. So we we like got the books and we thought about it, and we're like, okay, here's a couple of backups, but we always went back. There was there was never any change for any of my kids' names. So what about you? Um okay, so our kids I'm I'm turning it back to you. You're good, you're good. We did plant names for all of them. So our first kid is Holly. We thought about naming her, I think, Harper, but we went with Holly instead. She's also a like February birthday, so very wintry. And then our second kid, we named Magnolia, which we thought Juniper also for a name for her. But we had other friends who named it. Yeah, we had other Juniper was kind of on the rise. And you know, the elitist in me was like, We can't, we can't be like all these other people. And then So we had a plant theme going. And then for the third one, when we had a son, like there aren't a lot of plants that are masculine sounding. So it was like, do we do Sage? So we went with Josh for Joshua. So and we didn't really have any backup names for him. Josh Richard, yep. And we didn't really have any like backup names for him, because like it would have been like Ash or Asher or something like that. All names that were like, I already have not common first name that's misspelled and mispronounced constantly. So I wasn't really looking for the more quirky, like, you know, first name. So I wanted something that was easier to spell. And whenever we stumbled upon Joshua, we're also massive Josh uh Josh Ritter fans. So that also was a big play into it, also. So yeah, uh Harper and Juniper. I always wanted to do Marigold and call her Mary for short, but in the R I I thought would have been an adorable playing girl name. Totally. Yeah, Marigold was definitely on our short list. Yeah. And Sage was on our short list. But yeah, we have Silas, Juniper, and Jonah. So Silas gets the S name. Yeah. And then all the rest of us are J names. My wife is Jillian. I'm Jeff, Juni, and Jonah. So there's just all these J's. Which, which my aunt and uncle did with my cousins. And I was like, wow, that's so weird that they did all J names, and then here I am, and now I have all J names. You got you gotta, you know, you gotta break the family history. You know, you gotta put a stop to it at some point in time for the for some of these habits. You know, it just makes your stock, you just whenever you go to like buy Christmas stuff and you buy like Christmas stockings, you just do a J and you just order them in bulk. And it's really it's cost efficient and cost saving. That's really why we named them. It's just cost, it's efficiency, really. That's it. Totally for all your monogramming that you do around the house. So much monogramming during the holiday season. Yeah, that's it's lots. More than the average person, probably. It might be. Next question: Who's your favorite TV or movie dad? You can do first that comes to mind, also. Uncle Phil? Yeah, that's solid. That's good. Yep. Uncle Phil from Fresh Prince. Yep. I mean, no BS, but like always heartfelt, always had those aww moments. Yep. Um I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go Uncle Phil. Yeah, Uncle Phil's good. And also, like, it's so mean because now like socials will do like the 30-second clips from shows that made you cry when you watch them in real time. So the scene of Will Smith being abandoned by his dad and Uncle Phil coming to the rescue just randomly appears on your timeline and you're like, Stop it. Not right now. Yeah, I'm about to eat lunch. Stop it. I watch it every time. Yeah, I don't know why. And it comes up it comes up so much, especially like I mean, when we were kids, like you would see that and then you wouldn't see it again for like 15 years, but like it would stick with you. It's wild. Yeah. I agree. Kind of great though. It is. Um next question. Since you do kids' music, you live in kid mental space, what's your replacement curse word? Like stub your toe. I have a bunch of them. Do you want to hear them? The famous one in my house that everyone rolls their eyes at is kreppen. Kreppen? Kreppen. Kreppen. Which replacement? It's like, well, it's uh it's a replacement for the F-word and crap and anything. Anything that happens, I'm like, ah, Kruppen. And uh that's it. That's the big one. Are you hoping to be an extra in a Charles Dickens play? Like just in the background? Kruppins. Like is that's what it sounds like to me. I think think maybe because I think it originated from um I know exactly where it originated, actually. So I played action in the uh musical West Side story, and I got to sing G Officer Krupke. And at the end, the tag is G Officer Krupke, Krupp you. So I just I just kind of adapted it, and that's my replacement. So I still swear, but I swear a little less. Yeah. Now? Yeah. Yeah. That's so hard. There are so hard not to swear. I am still interested as my kids get older. What's the age where you just give up the replacement curse word? I feel like it tends to be high school. When all your kids are in Elise High School, it seems like that's when parents are like eff it. I know you're saying these words anyway. I'm gonna try to not just drop them constantly, but we all know we're all saying these words. So let's let's remove that mask. The worst is that like my nine-year-old, he is like second or third hand hearing memes. Like he doesn't even know what he what what it means or what it is. He's just like repeating memes. Like I get and so he'll he'll just say something where I'll just be like, what did you just say? Yeah, yeah. I was like, what what do you think that means? I don't know. It's just something we say at school. And I'm like, no, no, no, like be real with me. Yeah. Do you know what that means? Or are you just repeating something dumb that everyone says? And he's like, I'm just repeating something. It's a meme. So it is strange. Nothing like the joy of being like, okay, so I'm just gonna, I'm gonna say the words back to you, but that you said to me. Now imagine your principal hears these words and I get a phone call, and your principal says these words to me because you said them. Do you think that's a positive situation or a not so happy situation? There it is. There it is. And that's the probably overly condescending tone that I use with my kids. It's like, okay, let's play this out. Let's see, let's see how this turns out, guys. And I as a parent of also younger kids, I'm just like, listen, like you could say this when it's just you and I. Like, but you cannot say this around your siblings. They're because they're gonna, you're gonna go to school and then I'm gonna have them here and they're gonna say it verbatim, like forever, over and over. So please don't do that. Please don't do that. Please don't let the rest of my day be me being like, haha, I laughed accidentally the first time because I was in shock, and my stress response was to laugh. Now, please stop. I did not mean it as positive reinforcement. We have to do something else. That's exactly it. Yes. Come on, just please dump it. Please double it. Next question is what's like one of your favorite like toys or activities that you play with your kids? We've been really into this game called Zingo lately. Okay. Yeah. Have you so it's basically it's basically bingo. Okay. But instead of just letters, it's a picture and the word of it. Yeah. So it's like, so anyone can play. Like my two-year-old can play it when he sees a hot dog. So the thing is you have to be quick. Yeah. So you spit it out. Cool. It shows two pictures. If you have it on your card, so we we're a huge, we're huge fans of game night. Yes. And there's a lot of kids games for, you know, my oldest and my middle, but for the youngest one, like Zingo is the best. That's awesome. Because he can actually play with us. And and and it's not like we're letting him win all the time. You gotta let him win, but like we're all it's also fun for everyone else. We we found that our library lets you rent board games for like two weeks at a time. And that has been fantastic because similar of like, yeah, the game my 10-year-old and eight-year-old are old enough to play, the four-year-old isn't. You know, so like to find, and I don't want to go drop 40 to 50 bucks on board games that only one kid likes, because that is not fun to me. Um, or you're then you're the dad at the table being like, we're gonna play Zingo again and you're gonna like it, is not not a good scenario. We have to play it at least four times. That's $10 a play. Then I'll then I'll give it back, okay? Um, but dude, finding that gap, even like um us having two girls and then a boy, like the what the girls want to watch is like a show at the end of the day versus my son, drastically different. My two oldest just watched Project Project Runaway Jr. And my son was like, I'm so bored, there's no cars, like the entire time. That's awesome. Yep. But he did enjoy it. He will not admit he enjoyed it, but you saw him watching that and you know getting some great fashion ideas. Okay. That is it is funny, the the reluctant watch. Yeah. Uh and then you'll see him, you hear him like quote it later. Yeah, yeah. They'll talk about it. He'll talk about it. I know it's up. And then last question for you. Um what's like go-to parenting advice? Like, if you know someone is about to be a dad, something like that, what would you tell them about like their upcoming journey? You know, um, I think everyone's go-to is like enjoy it, it goes by so fast, you know. But like, I think mine would be like try to even when you're in the thick of it and you're overwhelmed, like do your best to not show it. Yeah. Because I think some of my worst moments were when I showed my overwhelm. Showed me being overwhelmed. So just figure out how to get past that. I don't know. Yeah. Self-help. Yep. Or the the thing I've had some friends, or what I think is helpful is if you can know how to lean on your partner before you get to that point. If you can be like, hey, I know I'm about to explode. I know if I have to watch, if I have to do one more simple task today for two for a two-year-old, I'm gonna, I'm gonna lose it. And I just need to stuff, I need to go on like a 10-minute walk. And if you can do that before you get to the point of like, no, at your kid, that's better. It's avoiding the moment where you get angry at your kids for them being a child. Totally. 100%. Yep, there it is. That's that's really great advice. I'm with you. It's it's hard to learn though, man, and it takes a while because there is still like um when you run into that moment, you are like, no, I should be able to do this. I should be able to figure this out. I should still be chill and okay with stuff. And it's like, no, you're overstimulated. You've probably been going for hours and like you're mentally somewhere else. So like it's okay, but just tap out, lean on your partner, lean on family, whatever, and get out for a bit. Yeah, absolutely. It's uh it's great advice. It's definitely something to live by and work towards. It's real hard. Easier said than done. Yeah. There was just there was one of the questions that you didn't answer. Yeah, yeah. Which one? Which questions you know, which one did you not answer? I did I answer any of them. That's I mean, listen, which one do you want me to answer? Um, not other than board games, what what about the toy, the favorite toy? I magnetiles. We do a lot of magnetiles. It's pretty easy. My youngest has started getting into we bought them, we bought like a pack of Nerf guns for Christ. I mean, Santa got a pack of Nerf guns for Christmas. And then we have found that like the creativity with it, because like I don't want them to shoot each other or come anywhere close to shooting each other with the guns, but it is still fun and all the kids in the neighborhood have them and stuff. So I've started building towers with magnetiles and trying to teach them like, okay, if you shoot it here, watch how differently it falls, and trying to teach them like physics along with like aiming and focus all at the same time, is how I justify playing with nerf guns as a 38-year-old man. Love that. That's something that like like in our house, we're like, no guns at all, no blasters, no blah, blah, blah. But like, I loved Nerf guns or something. Yeah, they're awesome. They're super fun. Yeah. I might have to have a conversation. Okay. And then last thing for you is just a moment for self-promotion. So, like, how do we find your music? Do you know when your new album is coming out? All that good stuff. Um, find me at Mr. Jeff is fun everywhere, mr. Jeff is fun.com. Um, I have three original albums anywhere you stream music, Apple Music, Spotify, YouTube, etc. The YouTube channel, check it out. Search Mr. Jeff is fun. New album should be out in I'm aiming for June or July. Um, I'm so close, but you know how far it is to get that extra, that last like 8%. So, yes. We're getting there. Yeah, and and Devin, thank you so much for having me. Like, yeah, of course. Love what you do. I think it's super, super cool. And I really appreciate you inviting me on. Yeah, um, thank you. I think the whole like ethos and hope of this podcast in general is just like I know dads care a lot. Dads care a lot about this world and everything, they just rarely get asked about it. So even like um, your belief in like kids' music and knowing that like it's possible to entertain kids and adults and make it a connecting thing for everyone is like just cool to explore and cool to give you like an opportunity to talk about it because it is it exists and it's out there and there's lots of kids cool kids' music out there. So thanks for being part of it. Yeah, thank you. There's so much cool kids' music out there. So it's it's cool being part of like the children's music network where there's like a whole group of us that are just like very similar in ethos and very similar in mission. So yeah. That's awesome. It took a while to find it. But you're here now, and that's awesome. Yes, my friend. Perfect. Well, hey, go enjoy what's love. It's like 9-10 for you, right? Yep, it's 9-10. Yeah, go enjoy the hour before you fall asleep on the couch. 100%. That's exactly what's gonna. I'm gonna, I'm about to crawl into bed and maybe watch an episode of shrinking with my wife. That's probably what's gonna be. That's a solid, that's a solid next hour for you. Go enjoy that. Do you like that show? Yeah, of course. It's awesome. Yeah. So do you do you also, when you play cornhole, scream cornhole whenever you play it now? Yep, yep. That's a Brian thing. It's a Brian, it's so good. It's so good. No, I love it a lot. I think it's uh, yeah, we could, whenever we meet up in person, we'll talk about like male mental health also and watching it evolve over the years. Because I was definitely an introspective teenager who wanted to express emotions but didn't know where the safe space to do that was, besides listening to a lot of really sad music. So now watching kids do it freely and openly, I'm like, what would life have been uh what would life have been like? What would I have not replaced? Yeah, no, I I I feel that so hard because I came through punk rock because it was angry and I was mad. And sad. So like all that angry, sad music. That's why when I wrote sad songs, they were really sad. And I'm like, I don't even care if people connect to it. Yep. This is this is how I get it out. Yep. This is that this is my therapy. Yep. Pretty much I'm gonna go see Bright Eyes is gonna play Red Rocks next week or in two weeks, and they're gonna play Digital Ash and a Digital Urn start to finish. Then Ben Queller's gonna come out and play a set, and then they're gonna play I'm Wide Awake It's Morning from beginning to end. And I'm going to live all my sad boy dreams in this. What a sad boy concert. I'm a sad boy concert. Thank you. I appreciate that. You it's sad, but it's cathartic. It's cathartic and expresses things I don't have words for, so I am appreciative of it. Okay. Yeah, we're going, we're going to see uh Deathcab in a few weeks. Not as sad, but it's got some sadness going on. This is very Seattle sad. It's good. Yeah. It's solid. Like it's Seattle sad. It's totally different. It's different. You know, throwing some modest mouse and some minus. Get all the late 90s, early 2000s Seattle Mathrock sadness stuff. I'm all for it. Totally. We'll talk build to spill next time, okay? Then we'll get into that chapter. Okay. All right. All right. Go enjoy shrinking, and I'll talk to you next time, okay? Take care, Devin. Thank you so much. YouTube. Thanks, man. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the episode. Make sure to follow us on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube at the Imperfect Dads Podcast. And make sure to give us five stars where everybody listened to us. Music, editing, and production is all done by me. Make sure to tune in on Mondays and most Thursdays for episodes. This podcast is part of the Never at Face Network. Make sure to go to NeverFace Network.com to learn more about it.