Episode 251 | Chipper Harbin Tattoo Artist

On this episode we have on tattoo artist Chipper Harbin who is based out of Nashville.

We talk about Nashville’s creative scene, how he chose his style of water color tattoos, realities of being a tattoo artist, having kids that are good students, teaching empathy and kindness, being intentional when with family, touring with bands, doing tattoos on tour buses, and a staying authentic. 

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This podcast is part of the Never A Phase Network, follow them on instagram at @neveraphasenetwork and check out their podcasts like Emo Kids Anonymous  Wasting Time Podcast Certified Fangirl and The Ska Mailman

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Welcome to the Imperfect Dads Podcast. This is your host, Devin. We believe dads care deeply about their family and kids, but they don't always have a space to discuss what their life looks like. Our podcast is a space for dads to discuss the ups and downs of fatherhood and how they feel like they're holding it together or how they're not. Thank you for joining us for this episode. This podcast is part of the Never A Face Network. Make sure to follow him on Instagram or go to the website neverface network.com. On this episode, we have on tattoo artist Chipper Harbin, who's based out of Nashville. We talked about Nashville's creative scene, how we chose a style of watercolor tattoos, the realities of being a tattoo artist, having kids that are good students, teaching empathy and kindness, being intentional with family, touring with bands, doing tattoos on tour buses, and staying authentic. Just like one more thing. Oh, my bad. Yeah, so like Gallatin, Main Street, all that in East Nashville changed so much drastically in the 18 years that I lived there. Like, I remember going to Pepperfire, whenever it used to be on Gallatin Road, and like walking across the street to like a gas station, and the gas station had like pornography DVDs you could buy in the gas station and just being like, oh, that's not and that I did not expect to see that today while waiting for them to make my hot chicken.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

That pepper flap part is uh a block and a half to the left from where I'm sitting. Or what was, it's just a cover flight. It might be the last stretch here on Gallaton that's not been ginger fried so far. Pretty much, yeah. I'll finish this podcast and stuff outside, and there'll be two new tall, skinny condos built. You know what I mean? I think they build them at a cardboard. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

They do, they do, yeah, yeah. I remember so we lived next to the fairgrounds. So we were like um closer to the zoo than actually like uh the fairgrounds. And like our house was like on one lot, and we were A, and another another house was B. And we got lucky that code said they couldn't put three houses on that lot. So we had like point, we had a quarter of an acre, we had a good amount of space, but like you and I both know they were hoping to put five houses on that lot. They weren't they weren't trying to like make it more livable and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

So when I moved to Nashville 13, almost 14 years ago, I moved to a little duplex area right off of 8th Avenue, across some Zannies area. And that stretch, it was about a block and a half of really nice houses they've converted into duplex setups for apartments and whatnot. Yep. Just out and about cruising around this Christmas. I haven't been I live in deep East Nashville now, so there's no reason for me to go over to that area. You don't cross the river.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

You don't cross the river. I get it.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Yeah, you know the vibe. Um, it's awkwardly weird, but true. That being said, I was just out and about and was like, let me just cruise around and see what's different in the city. That entire block neighborhood was so totally different, I almost couldn't navigate it. Like the roads that you get in and out, and I didn't recognize anything. It was it was a little unnerving. It is, it is to see how fast things change. That's only been oh man, that's been seven, eight, eight-ish, nine-ish years. I mean, it's not been that long for that much change to have happened.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

Yeah. No, I mean, I'll always tell people like, so I went to Belmont from 2006 to 2010, and like you didn't walk 12 South back then. Like, we wouldn't walk from Belmont to Severe or like the pl the park that's over there, which is a phenomenal park, because it was it wasn't it wasn't that nice of an area. And now it's like Reese Witherspoon's flagship store is Bachelorette Party Central. I think Frothy, because I just read up on how um 12 South Tap Room is close is closing at the end of the month. And like that was the that and Frosty Monkey are the last two businesses from whenever I went to college that it still exists in 12 South. Yeah. And that's crazy to me. I mean, like, if you owned a house and were able to sell it in the past 20 years in that neighborhood, hell yeah, for you. You made bank, but like that's not an area of town I would ever go to. Whereas in college, like it was cute, like it was fascinating to walk around there. Yeah.

unknown 4:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

So I I brought up the the living situation when I moved to Nashville. I I worked at a studio that was wedged right between that Belmont, Vener Belmill, uh Edge Hill and Fenth Avenue. We were right on the corner, just above Edge Hill Cafe. So I'm sure you got several breakfast burritos at Edge Hill Cafe, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Yep, yep, yep, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Was that is that where Safe House originally was? It went from there to like Marathon, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

Technically, technically, Ian had like a little private spot that he hired another guy. Okay. That that was a location, then they lit moved literally next door. That kind of became Safe House. I moved in at that s that that version of you know Safe House, you know. And then we moved over to Marathon, and I was there for well, the entire time I've I've been working privately now for seven years, but previous to that, my entire time was at was at Safe House.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

Okay, cool. I think I did I have five tattoos. I've done them all with Eli. I think I would have done two or three, maybe two at the marathon space, and then he went to like Adventure something, and I did one over there. And then he did like his own thing for a bit, and I think I did one there, and now he's back with Safe. So like all I feel like I know about being a tattoo artist is you just you're you try to be good to everyone because you never know whenever you're gonna back out of the tattoo parlor. You start.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

Yeah, and you know burning burning bridges is tricky. I'm real thankful that uh my my you know, I go by chipper and that just worked out. That's my personality. You know, I'm always in a good, happy headspace, good mood. So I like to think that I don't make a lot of enemies in the first place. But there is an awareness of community and what might happen. I tattoo um friends of mine or clients of mine and things that I've been tattooing for 18 years back in North Carolina when I go back home on occasions, my dad, but my my kids are back in the Charlotte area, and when I'm when I go back there to spend time with them, if it's a a school week, they can they have school. I'm not just gonna sit around in an Airbnb all day. I might as well work and at least pay for the trip, you know. But very thankful that I have a clientele base from 18 years ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In reference to this story, though, what's really nice or cool is that I have homies that I tattooed with, the shop that I worked back there, all I've got to do is make a phone call, say, hey, I'm gonna be there this date. This kind of a here's the key, and I I can work. So keeping that relationship has been very important. On on whether it be the professional side or the client side. Either way, it's you know.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

I was talking to someone today about how like with raising kids, so I have three kids. I have a 10-year-old daughter, eight-year-old daughter, and four and a half-year-old son. And how like, more than like, what are they gonna achieve? What's their career gonna be? I'm s I feel like I'm we are more focused on like, are you a decent person? Like, are you just like nice to people because of stuff like that? Of like, okay, cool, if you run into someone 20 years later, like and you need help with something, like have you created a personality, uh reputation of some sort where like you help people, you get help from people, and like you're just a decent person in community is something I am just constantly focused on, which seems really dumb to say out loud, but also doesn't it takes a lot more intentionality than I think people realize.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

Yeah. I uh um in reference to what we're talking about and and and children, I have a hard time relating to my kids from a scholastic point of view or whatever one, because I I never applied myself. I I'm I was a solid B plus student without really trying. Yeah. So I just rode that wave.

SPEAKER_03 7:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

And I'm I'm I'm a smart guy and and I'm you know I'm well put together, I'm intuitive, uh, but I'm not a I'm not a test taker, I'm not a just getting these books and my reading comprehension. I usually like to read a paragraph twice to kind of gain some information. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love learning. I love connecting. I love someone, hey, show me how to do it. Let me get my hands on it. That's great. But just that, that scholastic person, not me. Both of my kids excel in that. My daughter, you know, she's on track to potentially be her, you know, her class valedictorian in an accelerated learning program. She does the the IB program at her school. Yeah. So what I'm getting at is her her her hang time after school is studying for school. I'm like, what?

SPEAKER_03 8:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

You know, and I I obviously as a parent, I'm very respectful of the you know, you and I both understand that high school is not about learning. High school is teaching you how to learn. Correct, yes. If I were to say that to my 17-year-old daughter, her head, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 8:36

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

My son is naturally gifted and doesn't care much for school, but he's he's hyper smart in that world. What I'm getting at is this relating to them on that world is not me, and that's not my life. I don't live in a corporate, black and white, analytical, the furthest thing from what I do on a daily basis. I get to live in a in a ethereal free form. I thought of this, so I made this kind of a like, well, that's a magic trick. Kind of a head in a headspace, or I work with a person and their personality and the the tension of like what this might feel like, what I feel like the ain't, the energy, whatever that might be. Humanity, people. So what I get to step into is I can't really relate to those like scholastic-based things. So that's not my role, that's not my skill set with teaching my kids to be better people. Both of my kids are unbelievably good, smart, well adjusted, healthy, all the things you want to do, dad. They they have they check all those boxes, they're great. So what I can step in and to help them grow and learn as the future you know unfolds for them is get the straight A's and get the college degree to get the my daughter wants to be in medicine, all of that. Do all of those things. That's fantastic. But I can step in and teach them how to be a good person, a caring person, someone that listens, yes, someone that actually does tap into uh uh an empath, kind of a heart space for someone, and and you apply that with the knowledge, you had a dangerous person because I don't care how smart you are, if you can't relate, then who cares? Or if you relate in a negative way, an arrogant way, then who cares? The relatability with that knowledge is so I'm trying my hardest to find a way for dad to teach them humanity and loving people, care for people, accepting things that are different from you, being aware of hey, this knowledge takes you to a place that now allows you to really make a difference in people's lives. You define you define what that different means, you know. But yep, we have an opportunity here to impact people's lives very positively, certainly with with the knowledge and the information and the people they're becoming. Yeah. So I I tap into to that.

SPEAKER_00 10:47

Yeah, dude. Totally. I I think with like school stuff, like um, because I I think it's more my kids aren't like in near high school yet or yet, but like in my head, how I want to approach is like this is the game to be played. So like uh my middle child is like, all right, I might want to be a vet. And I was like, okay, cool. Here's the grades you need to get, here's the path you need to go to get that. And like if you want to be that, here's the level you need to be at to be able to achieve that. But I try to not make it like um our identity is so much more than that. Because it is more like, how do you treat people? How are you? You can be a vet, you can know all the stuff, but if you're a jerk to every single client you have, like that I don't care. I don't care how smart you are if you're not a decent person. But yeah, I I'm sure you feel that way with your daughter, where you're like, yeah, man, like play if you want to go into medicine, you do have to have these grades. You do want to get scholarships, you want to do this. What you're doing right now is how you play the game to get all that stuff. And I'm glad you're doing it and you're you're excelling at it. Also, though, be a decent person. Like, make sure you're kind to people. Because it's you can go too hard and like, I don't know, man. I think in general in uh Western or American culture, like doing stuff in moderation isn't something people talk about. Like, it's just like you go all in, you give 150%, or or why did you even do it? And it's like, I need to be more than just one thing. Like, I'm I can tang multitudes as obnoxious as that sentiment is. So, how do you make sure to teach a kid, like, hey, balance, don't put all your eggs in one basket? Because like at no matter what you do in your life, your identity is kind of gonna crash down around you at some point in time. And you need you're gonna have some moment in your 30s in which you're like, what was I building towards? What am I doing here? Let me reassess what my values are and make sure I'm on the correct path.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Pretty much with them, it's it's fun to step back and watch because I'm like, how do you even know that? My son's 11 years old and his knowledge of like 80s music is like Yeah. What? So he'll sing a Rolling Stone song in the backseat of the truck with conviction. Like, I'm like, Where did I mean I love the stones, but but again, we're not in the truck every day listening, but something about it he tapped into it's like that little brain's working all of the time. And then with my daughter, she's so focused and so held in on the right thing the right way at the right time, which is awesome. Thankfully, in in my my life of parenting, there's been next to no real like discipline kind of issues I've had to handle. I mean, it's just mine is the relatability of like, you know, I deliver more on the mischievous kind of rebel rousing side of things. And so I'm like, man, you guys are so good. I mean, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's fun because my oldest daughter is like that too, where she's very responsible, very much like on top of it at all times. And like teaching her that she's still a kid is a really interesting thing. Is to be like, hey, by the way, you do have two parents who are paying attention and in the room. You aren't you weren't the parent to your brother and sister. We are. Thank you for wanting to help. We got this. It's like, and to not say that in a way in which you discourage them and make them feel shame is really hard sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

My mine is because we are talking a little different ages. Uh so my son's 11, my daughter's 17. Okay, yeah. But uh my my daughter Liv, I have the hard time uh because she is a part of this IB program, which means basically do you know I do. All the kids in her class would take, or her in her age group, her high school would take four classes a semester. Her IB program, they do six. Those are applied towards uh an associate's degree for college, but also she also because it's medical IB program, she will also have a CNA license once she graduates high school. Stop it. Yeah, that's like I'm like, yeah, I'm like, what no, no interested in partying or dating, just school. Which is okay. And I am there again from a dad, I'm so unbelievably thankful that that's that. But then, like, don't grow up so fast. You got time to be an adult, be a teenager. I mean, you how I'm 48, so I'm in that perfect age of like, I wake up every day thinking about how things used to be. You know what I mean? Yeah, so you don't get the used to be back.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

So her, I'm like, hey, don't fast track the the what is. Yeah, yeah. I'll be 39 in two weeks. Um, my wife did IB in high school, and um, she graduated a semester early from college because she had so many credits. She had a full semester's worth of college credits and graduated early. So I mean, like, it's I think it's really fascinating too, because like, yeah, my oldest daughter I could see being like that also, where she's motivated, she's focused, she's book smart, she wants to do this. So I want to encourage that because that's where she's naturally leaning. But also, anytime someone gets their whole identity wrapped up in, like, I have to be good at school, I have to do this, I have to do this. I'm like, no, actually, you you do not need to achieve this to be worthy of love, is my biggest fear is that someone will think if I'm not this, I'm not worthy of love, then I have failed in some way. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. There's so much more depth to you, there's so much more beauty to you than that. And trying to figure out how to communicate that. Because I think that also plays into the whole, like, just be a decent person. It's like, be a decent person and you're worthy of love. It's like, I care about that more than did you graduate college a year early because of how hard you worked at 17.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

So unfortunately, my daily connectivity with my kids is is is FaceTime and text messaging, phone calls. I try and find so that they're they're preteen and teen, so there's their attention level, you know. So I vary sometimes phone calls, sometimes text messages, sometimes it's a FaceTime. It just until I get to my my dad trip there every you know five to six weeks, I get my four or five days in North Carolina, and then we work out our week vacation, the holidays from that that's our just our dynamic. But what I'm getting at is my connective with my kids is is those FaceTimes. And my son is part of a uh a soccer, you know, a travel soccer club. She everything is is getting these testing and doing all this kind of stuff. So the the the dramatic levels of how important sports and good grades all is to an 11-year-old, to a 17-year-old, and to my children. So the conversation for me and the responsibility of the conviction for me as a dad is never once been, and I don't know that I've ever once asked in the years of them doing like her tennis, but really more the testing of things and him and soccer. He's a little he's a little soccer guy. Yeah. Um, but I've never once asked, I it did you win? I've never once had the conversation about did you win? It's always did you try hard? Did you did you try your best? Did you have fun? Yeah. Then how could you? But I know how they answer the question based on if it was a good testing or a good match or not based on how the answer is given in the first place. But that doesn't matter. It's the did you do your best? Did you have fun? You're 11, you're 17, you're fundamental, you're going somewhere with these with these skills.

unknown 17:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

This letting talk of fun. Yeah. You know, yeah, and it's it's been good to maintain that and let her know my pride has zero to do with the end result. My pride has everything to do with the fact that you're even trying and caring and being present for the the thing.

SPEAKER_00 17:53

Yeah. Yep. It's so hard. So I coach my middle child's soccer team. So they're like eight, eight-year-olds. So it's like, you know, clumping up together. Maybe they're learning spacing and passing and everything. 42 kids writing around with a ball. Yes, that's right. It's so ingrained in me, though, to coach to win. And that is so difficult if we lose a game 2-1, if we lose a game 3-1 or something like that, to focus on like, hey, actually, all the girls are enjoying each other. All the girls are building community, they're building friendships. Because it's a rec league. We're not in like some travel league. We're not, no one's from like the women, no professional scouts are at these games. You know, it's nothing like that. But like, it's so ingrained in me to be like, you play to win the game, as stupid as that quote is, that it is kind of like, no, like we lost. How do we win next time? And it's like, hey man, you are not only does it matter, but you are communicating to 10 girls basically if you you need to win for this to be worth doing. And that is a as a someone who's now coaching a team, that I've had to rethink that. What's that? You want these orange slices, yes, and you better show up for the game. That's right. And honestly, what I then like fact, what I dialed back to is like, okay, are these kids trying? Are they improving? Are they enjoying the sport? Is what I get back to. But I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna act like in the moment, whenever we give up a goal than the last minute and we lose the game. Some part of me is then like, God, we played so well. Like, absolutely, that's part of me.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Yeah, no, I get it. No, I I do have a very competitive spirit. Yeah. I also keep the balance of paying attention to what's ultimately more important. I'll give an example of this. And some of this will be uh proud dad bragging, but some of it is reality of life. My son played up a grade last year in school soccer. Teams decent. They win some, lose some, about an about an even record. He scored no less than three goals every game. Every his skill set, he's about ten steps faster than every other kid on the on the pitch. There's a lot of things to learn to grow, obviously. We're talking about 11-year-old soccer. But he played up the grade and was still scoring three goals per game. A little stud a little stud striker. I mean, doing great. This year he was playing school club school and club. The school said, Hey, you can't play both, you gotta pick one. And I have no idea what the rules or the why they won't let kids play school sports and club sports at the same time at that level. Don't know, whatever. Didn't ask. Yep. But he had the choice. Am I gonna play on this club school team? And he recognizes he's probably one of the better ones. And he respectfully framed it as, well, I'm really just kind of playing with my friends if I'm on the school team. He said, But at the club team, he said, I really get an opportunity to learn. And side note, he thinks he's I mean, he thinks he's doing the damn thing. Because there's two Spanish kids, uh, I mean, like Spanish-speaking Spanish kids on the club, a guy from a little little boy from Norway. And their coach is actually uh is on a visa for teaching uh uh youth soccer in the States from England.

SPEAKER_03 20:54

Okay, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

He thinks he's doing, you know, he's he's doing but you know, he chose that. Well, immediately after joining this club team, they move him to a midfielder. So there goes all there goes all the scoring.

SPEAKER_03 21:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

He's fat he's he that that team steps faster than everyone, it serves him better midfield on this club team than it does being a striker, kind of just standing loosely in the back waiting on the ball. He's actually hustling twice as much. Yeah, he's actually getting more involved in the game and he's using his skill set even more.

SPEAKER_03 21:26

Yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

But in his linear mind, he's kind of in this internal battle of, but I'm not scoring. So I'm not am I being successful because I'm not the one with all the channel, all the credit. So he's learning.

unknown 21:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

First of all, in and all about you. It's a team sport. You place your skill set, even if that means you don't get the shine, you still place your skill because you set a goal like this you can be. So that kind of stuff is is fun to see working this stuff out in real time and like now.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

Yeah. Well, also it matters because like um, I mean, you're a small business owner, um even with like this podcast or something like that, like you at some point. In time, have to realize like you're the one who defines what success is. Because if you aren't the one taking the time to define what does success mean, how am I a successful tattoo artist? How am I a successful podcaster? Then I'm waiting for someone else to define it for me.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

Not just a small business owner, an artist. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. How do I define what success is?

SPEAKER_03 22:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

Yeah. I make art for someone else. So how do I define what success is? Do I like it? Do they like it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Do I get paid? There's a weird triangle. Yeah, man. You're a graphic designer and your medium is flush. So you know, like it's a very unique thing for you to do.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

You know what's hilarious about you say referencing that? Because I say so. Sometimes the conversation of being a tattoo artist can be a bit performative because it's, you know, I'm the same person every day, but I'm connecting with a different person in the sort of the same way every day.

SPEAKER_03 22:47

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

Sometimes you tell a story to give me 15, 20 more minutes of pain-free work. So you're thinking about my little silly stories.

SPEAKER_03 22:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

One of the things I say often, which leads into the style of art that I actually make, is out of high school, I went to school for graphic design, commercial art. Okay. So I come up to skateboarding and pump rock music posters and stickers and merch. It's obvious. And I was that guy. So that the leaning into art art was that. But I went to school out of high school for graphic design, commercial art. And this was this was late 90s. And they were really, really pushing um digital-based work. And I I don't want to do it. I still to this day still draw everything with red vellum paper. I don't even own an iPad for Pro Creator. I like to do it the old way, the hard way. I prefer to put my soul into it, you know.

unknown 23:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

Not saying that, but that but so in this town thing that was really pushing digital art. I didn't want anything to do with it. Beyond that, though, that was also um nursing homes, inks, financial institutions. So if you're doing graphic design work for those companies, they're gonna want gray, light blue, light green, safe, simplistic taglines, safe art. I don't want to do that. I wanted even then, without any any like reference points to have the arrogance that I had, yeah. I still had an artistic arrogance of like, no, I'm not, you're not gonna tell me what to do with my art. So it's like, why am I gonna be a graphic? This is commercial art.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

It's not the crap for you then.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

So I quit. It was also in tandem on trying to chase music for you know, trying to be the tour touring guy, that that whole world. So it all worked, but the core of it was I'm not gonna let you tell me what to do with my art. Who knows how many years later, teens of years later, I ended up as a tattoo artist, and I sit down every single day and I let you guys tell me what to do with my art. I guess I could have cut out a chunk of time, you know, if I had just been a little more vigilant with my with my mindset. Which is a joke, because obviously tattooing. So I tattooed in this place of the story. I tattooed years in the central suburban Charlotte area, little town called Statesville. Walk-in shops, street shops. I would do some custom work, but by custom work, I basically meant you would bring in this image and I would change the wing pattern. Yeah. So yeah, learning, growing, getting your chops, get it all, street shop stuff, traditional work, lettering, black and gray work, whatever. But in in doing that, uh kind of lost my train of thought with it, but in doing that, getting here to be established as no, this is the thing that I do, but this is the thing that I do came from years and years and years ago of like graphic-based work. When I started having a voice, I had a I had a I had a little bit more knowledge to go with the like, you know, okay, we're gonna do this graphic design commercial art tattoo, but I'm gonna have a say in it. And I and ironically, I moved to Nashville to be that, I'm gonna say to be that arrogant, which obviously is a joke. I don't mean that at all. But to be that bold and that, hey, I don't want to make a tattoo, I want to make a piece of art for you. Oh yeah, I'm a tattoo artist, not a tattooer.

SPEAKER_03 25:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

I do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Arrogance of, no, you call me this.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

Well, I mean, but it's like I also grew up like in punk rock scenes and stuff, and there's some natural, like, um, I don't know, even like something like in the early 2000s or late 90s, it was like if a band had a song placed in a commercial, it was like, well, they're a sellout. And now as an adult, I'm like, nah, man, you got to eat that month. You probably paid your electricity bill. But like the younger version of me was like super idealistic, and like, how dare you taint your art? And I'm like, they're getting paid, man. They need to, they might need to feed a family. This might be how they do it this week. So, like, back off, man. They're fine. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

Yeah, it's it's a weird thing. It's what sell out as a I I love I love them so much I don't want them to make a living. Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

I love this bar, but if anyone else finds it, it's dead to me. Yeah, I'm loving them right into poverty. Which is what I do for the people I love and support. I make sure they're desperate for me and my approval. That's what I do.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Well, those of us, some of us out there thrive on that, so yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

Explain your explain your like tattoo style. Like you said, you tried to make it more like graphic design or more like very artistic and stuff. What does it even mean?

SPEAKER_01 26:59

So I grew up, I don't even skateboarding, punk rocks, all of the like very graphic-based, almost like collage photoshopped poster art where there's layers and layers and layers of information, but the layers kind of take on a life of themselves.

SPEAKER_03 27:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

Ish. Um I've always liked and appreciated that style of art. I've always had an interest in kind of European fine art stuff. Yeah. Painterly things. Still very much in the graphic, poster art kind of world, but more open, loose expression. When I got involved in getting tattoos in in my mid-20s, I recognized that there was a uh an area in France, and I think kind of in Sweden, it is a European thing now, which is tempting the states. This this style of art, there's trash polka or the graphic base or uh watercolor. Uh that's very much the world that people would would label me. I'm also the pretentious artist. It's like, just I'm an artist. Artiste, artiste. Yes, you it's the same as having records in a record shop. You gotta have the category to thumb through, and I would be a watercolor style, you know. That's fine. And that's fine. And here's what scares me about the uh about the term, and this is so ridiculous. When I say watercolor to someone else, the thought becomes this like no-line, floral, very over-the-top feminine kind of thing. And and I do that, you know, but then there's also this element of wild, expressive graphic that I throw spatters of color to. So I would often refer to that as like painterly. Often say to this with people, you know, with a client base or or someone I'm meeting or connected with as a you know, how about you just come and get the tattoo and while we're doing it, we'll figure out what to call it. That'll be really cool. You know, why does that matter for how cool does it look cool? Then it's a cool tattoo.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You're over you're over there being like, why do we need to put a label on this? You know, it's beautiful, it's great.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

Yeah, but the the label, the label most often is watercolor, which is fine. Okay. Yeah. But it it's it's a very European approach to the art. I approach tattoos almost every work I make as a painting on skin, like you said, or you're judging. That's very true.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

I it's the generally what it is.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

Traditional based tattoo, traditional-based tattoo would be a heavy, thick line that you bold in, and then from there, you would fill in the colors most often in like primary, just bold-based colors. I don't do any of that. I worked in all of my years, my you know, six, seven years previous to establishing myself as a style in the street shop doing traditional tattoos, lettering, bold, thick lines. So I know how to make a traditional tattoo. I know all the rules. So essentially then go and be like, okay, which one of these can I throw out the window? Which one of these can I adjust? So that's what I do now. There's no difference in applying the a watercolor style tattoo versus traditional in that like it goes on the skin, the same layer, the same depth. For me, I have to think finesse. So if you say, hey, I love purple, red, blue, whatever, I love this color for my tattoo. I never think red. I think dark red, like blood red, yeah, hot pink, soft pink. And the blend of those makes this red that I'm looking for, as opposed to just this thing. I think this thing with each color. And one of the traditional knocks about the style is oh, it didn't have any walls to support the art, so it's not gonna hold. That's not true at all. Okay. And I know that when I establish myself making it, not I'll back we'll tear Tino the situation here in a second. We'll backtrack from the start. But I do all of that like mag work, shading kind of stuff, the ethereal look, and then I go back if necessary and trim that edge with a liner, like you would a painting. Yeah, and that gives it the wall the supported walls to keep it so it all it offers a little bit more longevity as a tattoo, like a traditional piece would or a heavy black tattoo would, but you're still getting this more modern approach to color and you know expression. And I just prefer I prefer working that way better. I don't rarely preference tattoos and making tattoos. No, I'm I'm not foolish. I know what what medium I work in, and I have an Instagram and I see I appreciate and respect art. I mean, beautiful artists out there. This city is unbelievable, it's so awesome to work in. There's so many good tattooers in that's what you can see. I'm happy to get to be a part of the energy. But I don't really look at any of that to make the work that I make. When you book an appointment with me, the time and date, the financial understanding, the art is all established before we ever even meet through a form. And that form is basically this time of day, this price, this is what I want, this is the reference point for what I want. And the reference that people send me, nine times out of ten, it is my art. So I'm played driving myself almost every day. So if I've gotten way better over the years, it's because I've worked off myself and I've stayed creative. If I've not gotten any better at all in your eyes, it's because I just keep doing the same thing over and over.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

I don't know. But also, the it's if you want to relate that to music, like I'm a really big fan of um the national.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

Yeah, crabble.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

Yeah, I'm a crazy. I'm a side kid, yeah. I'm a side kid, yeah, yeah. Um, so but like they basically they have a similar sound to every single album they have. And I feel like sometimes they get criticism because they're like, oh, they aren't, you know, like they aren't pushing themselves, they aren't challenging themselves. But also, and when someone says something like, but do you know how much work it took for them to develop this sound? Do you know how much intentionality it took for them to realize what they wanted to sound like? So like I would never look at you and be like, Chipper, why aren't you challenging yourself more? It's like you already did a lot of challenging work to get to this point where you know what you want to look like, you've already done a ton of work, and to disrespect that is not actually like it's not reality.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

So I'm I moved to Nashville, like I mentioned earlier, 13-ish years, almost 14 years ago. And before I officially moved to town, I had I'd done a guest flight through somebody that I knew through touring life, and that's how I landed at Safe House was just some touring friends. Worked a week there, we really hit it off. I was offered a gig to move to Nashville to to work. They had a they had an open chair. Cool. It's a whole story of how I it was beautiful. But I headed up there, but I kind of would move to Nashville or came to Nashville, work for a week, go back to North Carolina and work for a week, come here for a week. Setting up work here, finishing work there before I committed to being here with my daughter at the time, my wife at the time, you know, so it was important to do it the right way. I had no idea what I wanted was gonna do. I just knew I wanted to apply myself to more modern, more contemporary style tattoo styles. I wanted to to have a voice, and when you see that tattoo, you know Chipper did it. That was very important to obviously, first and foremost, above all, in this conversation about me and my ego or my graphic design work, the client has asked me to make a piece of art for them forever. Right.

SPEAKER_03 33:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:51

Forever.

unknown 33:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:52

That's heavy. So that give that the intensity and the value that it deserves for sure. But when we get in here and making the art, and my assumption is the client already knows that by the time we're in here, so we're in here, we're having fun.

SPEAKER_03 34:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:03

So I approach it as a good time, I approach it as a party. My clients pick the music, it's a good vibe, all of that. So all of that comes, but that comes from a comfort level of doing the same. I found myself as a style-specific artist when I moved to Nashville 13 years ago. I didn't know what the style was going to be. It found me. Just because I was open enough to say, oh, what's I know I'm a tattoo artist. I know my heart says, Let's make something that's a little more style specific. What can that be? And a young lady came in looking for the style. I jumped on it. Roommate also wanted something with that style. And I said, Oh, there's there might be a potential for this. And it's not the floodgates open up because there was no one else doing more modern work in the city. And it's the perfect storm, absolute perfect storm of timing. Me having the I don't know if it's the arrogance or the courage or the placement just to try something new and do it. But it took seven years of working in North Carolina to get here for that to start. So it almost felt like an overnight success. I think all the time, I wonder how many people in Nashville feel that because of playing music in Oklahoma or Kentucky or New Jersey or wherever, and then they move here to cut a record and then something happens or photography.

SPEAKER_00 35:19

Yeah. The phrase that I've heard from my musician friends is overnight success, 10 years in the making is usually the reality of how that is.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

Yeah, it's it's it's fun. I could actually feel it happening. Some of it's the culture of Nashville too, and the energy of like, I'm not being shady at all towards my hometown back in West County. That's a beautiful town. It's where it's located, it's perfect for a lot of other things, but it's just not very creative. Yeah, I gotcha. So being creative in that area, you just felt empty. Like I came up playing music and all of that, but that took us you go somewhere else to play the gig, not just purely there, but tattooing. Well, you sit there, people come in. So I needed somewhere else to sit there for people to come in with a creative mindset. Yeah. I had no idea how Nashville was gonna embrace that or how I knew music from my touring, playing music andor touring with with rock bands tattooing, and Nashville's gonna be one of the obvious stops from the Charlotte area at some point. But I had no I knew I knew the music culture, obviously. But I had no idea like hot yoga and bars and coffee shops and record collect, all of the like, and then I I knew for my world of touring back in the day, I knew how that works, tour managers, guitar techs, that kind of stuff. But I didn't really gain a sense of like Nashville is based off of the backbone of the songwriters and the touring musicians and the lighting techs and the sound engineers and the studio people and the rigging guy, whatever. Everyone, I'm gonna go outside right now, and the seven people that I see immediately, five of them are in the music industry.

SPEAKER_00 36:53

Yeah, correct.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

That leads to creativity. So you think the world thinks of the guy on the stage with the microphone, all of the open door of opportunity of that is so and then also the thought of Nashville being country music. First of all, that's a joke. There's just a little bit of country music and a whole bunch of other stuff too. But even the country music world, all of these modern country music guys, every one of those guys were working work tour 10 years ago. Every single one of them were working, you know, some some pop punk gig. They want to raise their families now, but all they know is music, but they can do the music gig and still be home half the week, half the month, whatever it might be, raise your kids, see the kids, and make actually make money. Make a living, yeah. There's a dude.

SPEAKER_00 37:39

Yeah, there's a dude in my freshman dorm who we called Metal Elliot because he would just be sitting behind his door. He'd be sitting in his room just shredding, just constantly shredding at all times because he loved playing guitar, he was a big metal head. I think he was the guitar tech for like Little Big Town because Little Big Town would tour. And so like he he did he wasn't in a metal band, but he understood guitars, how they worked, how to set them up, how to tech them, and little big town, or whichever one it was, was like, hey, we'll pay you money if you come on tour with us. And it's like, well, I like eating and I love guitars, and even though I don't like listen to this genre of music, like they're still good to be fit for any genre of music, there's a best of every genre of music. And like, get over it a little bit, you know? Like they want to pay you money, they want to be good to you. Get over it.

SPEAKER_01 38:22

The the gig is not necessarily the heart space, you know. I mean, I'm so unbelievably fortunate and blessed that my heart space is making visual arts, and I love people. Yeah. Like I I'm a social dude. I would do something in sales at some point, or AR repping or tour managing or something if I wasn't catching in the first. So I love people. I am so unbelievably blessed and I have a charmed life that I get I mailed both for the career. Not everyone gets to do that, but there are still people that get to play music for a living, and that and that's amazing. They don't always get to play the music that they write or the music they want to. I'll tell you this, and we we just tiptoed into it in reference to the the growing up and and art and me growing up moving to national real life and the professional side of being an artist or artistry or what that actually means, or the I grew up, me and my four homies got in the garage and worked out these half-assed four-chord punk rock songs and jumped in the van and see less how far we can go till the van breaks down. Yeah, that was what we you know. I moved here, I'm like, oh, so there's this many songwriters for this one thing, you sell the song, which it might not even ever hear it to get played, or these produ all of this inner workings, or the tattooing and pardon the name droppy here, but I have clients in the like the pop country world, the modern like major, major players. Yeah. I have I have clients that work for Taylor Swift and her band, John Party, Thomas Rhett, Danish. I mean, none of them, none of them listen to country music. None of them. They're all metal, rock, jazz, fusion. That's the gig that they got. But if you're asking me the art that I make or I prefer playing, it's it's this thing. So it's kind of a fun. It's a fun connect. When you're sitting down talking with someone, if you're an artist at that level, there's no way we're not gonna talk about that while we're working together. Now, how would you expect this is your time and this is your day off from that. So it's not, I'm not gonna be a punisher. Yeah, but why would I not want to learn and grow in in those ways? It makes you a better person.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

You know, so yeah, it's very much like it does, yes. And it is kind of like I don't want you to get into that mental space in which you start, you know, spiraling because you're having a panic attack because you're realizing I'm about to go back on tour, I'm gonna be gone for two da-da-da. But I'm kind of intrigued, like, hey man, you seem like a metal dude and you're shredding on stage with uh I mean, like, really modern day pop country has 80s guitar solos and like almost every single song. So I'm like, how do you how did you end up here? How did you get here? And like you're still playing the type of guitar you want to play, but not the venues and the crowd you would ever expect to play them to. How's that feel with you? How are you holding that together, you know?

SPEAKER_01 40:59

Yeah. It's it's cool, it's fun to see, it's fun to talk about. It's what's I've really enjoyed coming up as a little rap drum, punk rock, get in the van, let's go for it. Tattooing and playing music gave me the opportunity to tattoo because I just needed more time for that. So it's hard to have a real job job. So this would offer it. I've juggled both till it gave me tattooing. But as I tattooed almost immediately, and I mean like really before I was legally actually allowed to tattoo steel apprenticing, I was already tattooing on rock and roll tours at the back lounge of the bus or in green rooms tattooing. So but my whole world has been like hardcore metal, punk rock, uh, warp toury, yeah, 2000, 2000 cat room and clubs. Then to move here and meet some of the folks I've worked with and meet and connect with. I'm like, oh, there's a whole what I thought was acceptable based in my little punk rock world. So, oh, there's a whole nother window of that that's like, oh wow. To now but see all of those guys have not all of those guys, but a lot of those guys have made it clear and to understand, oh, those sweet bands that we've loved, or that's not even how you make a living. You make a living writing songs for commercials or for other people. It's just Nashville has opened up. There are so many ways, so many hustles to make a living if you're willing to commit yourself to it. So it's been yeah, it's been fun to kind of participate in that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

Yeah, uh I'm friends with uh the guy who was uh Dane Poppin. He's currently playing bass for the Frey, but his journey was like he played for a static lullaby, which is like a post-hardcore metal band. Yeah, then he played for Dashboard Confessional once he moved here, and then he played for Jesse Jane Decker, you know, like the country artist, because she needed a music director. And then he got hooked up with the fray, and it's like, so his journey to get there was metal, acoustic emo, pop punk stuff to then straight up pop country to now, I mean, I indie pop indie pop, is that what you would call the fray? So, like, but what he's doing mostly is being really happy that he's playing bass and supporting his family and having a great time doing it. Sounds to me like his skill set is being a good dude and showing up for the job. Basically, and that's so much like it's so hard to explain that to people or to like drive that home. It's like, how is someone successful in music business? You just be a good hang and be good at what you do, and you'll go really far.

SPEAKER_01 43:13

What it's what's the the hard work gets you there or uh talent gets you there, hard work keeps you there. I think that that is true, but also can be applied with the attitude in which it's which it's done. Yeah, you don't stay for an hour, homie. You got twenty you got realistically, if you can escape for a while, you're still gonna have 10 hours on that bus with nine other dudes.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

That's that's when it matters.

SPEAKER_00 43:38

That's when it matters, yeah. What's it like? So I know you've told me that you kind of like you'll go out to people to like um tattoo them and stuff, like you'll travel to tattoo. Tell me what that's like. Do you like is it literally like someone's on tour and they're like, hey, can you come to me and give me a tattoo while I'm on break or something? How does that even work?

SPEAKER_01 43:54

Well, so here's how this works. So when I was playing music way back in the day, I made A handful of connections and good pop connection energy, social energy with bands that we would play with, come through town, whatever. And when I wasn't playing, like touring or playing shows, I still was the notebook guy in the Central Charlotte area. So if your band's coming through town and you need more hookup to connections, more gigs in the Carolinas, you reach out to me and I'm gonna give you pages of clubs, names, promoters, bookers, whatever. So that was my value. But I would also book shows, but in booking shows, rather than giving you an 80 door an 80 80% door cut, money for a hotel room, money for Taco Bell or whatever. Hey, let me give you 80% door cut, and you can stay at my house. I've got extra bedrooms here. You can go and wash your clothes, we can have a home cooked meal, you can take a nap, whatever. Almost all touring acts, national touring acts, you're gonna want to have a more comfortable setting for at least a little bit. So I will be able to offer that as part of my booking package. So I would meet, but my band would start, we we would tour like Norma Jean and Beloved and Under Oath and all these bands back in the day, Southeast.

SPEAKER_03 45:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:04

But instead of booking promoting tandemly with the tattooing, and because I already knew like the Under Oath guys. Yeah. I mentioned earlier the I had probably five apprenticeship tattoos on Gillespie. That's cool. They're getting air on the back of the bus before I was legally able to tattoo. They're not good, but they're there. They're still there. Yeah. My connection with him, he's like, dude, rock and roll and and tattoos is kind of a hand in a glove. Come on. Yes. And you're part of that world on some level. You've at least been to a rock show. So you understand that for every headline band, there's two or three, hopefully two, supporting bands. Not a third. That's way too many. Yeah, that's too much. So do the math on this. There's five bands, five guys per band, plus text, plus sound guys, plus merch guys, whatever. So a three-band tour, there's 40 people on that tour doing nothing all day long. I mean, you got your sound check from if you're a headline band, you finish your sound check at one in the afternoon. You're not going to go on stage until 1.40 or 9.45. You're not doing anything all day long. So why don't I swoop in and make some tattoo work? But because I've known a good portion of these guys on a personal level from my years of playing music, thankfully, I think consider I'm a good hang, it all worked out. We go hit the road. I'd go out under oath on meet taking back Sunday, go that take my Sunday, meet the Us, bought the Us, meet Thursday, and it just became a web of guys. And next thing you notice I have this, I've cultivated this kind of community of bands to make a phone call and say, hey, who you got a junk bunk open the next weekend? I don't I wouldn't do a full tour because I have work at home and I want you know like life at home. But if I can get four or five days out of it, a weekend, whatever, give me the you know, you got a junk uh just kind of a just catch-all bunk on the bus. Hey, give me that bunk to sleep in for the couple of days. I'm gonna work out of the back lounge of the bus because you know the sketchiness is the is the back lounge or the the green room of the club. Bus is home space for everyone, and it's yeah, everyone is behaves for the most part on the bus. So it's safer and better for me to work.

unknown 47:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:03

But I've done that damn near my whole career. Like I said, from starting as an apprentice with working with different bands. And so I've I've it's not uh it's not a I go specifically to them, I'll do a a couple of days of touring. Gotcha. And I would normally meet them at the Charlotte venue, ride the bus to like New York City or Austin or wherever, and then fly home from there, kind of make a little extra money by flying out. But it's you know, it's fun, a good deal. That's cool. Cool friends, some fun stories. I think I've tattooed in almost every state in the country. I mean, every house of Bruce Park a lot looks exactly the same. But I've been doing it, right? Some good guys. It's a fun what's fun for me in that world is I connect, I connect deeper with musicians than I do visual artists for whatever, and I and I that's a choice I've made. But able to connect with that art or that lifestyle really has given me an appreciation for because I was chasing that for years. But stepping away from that and realizing, oh, but I still kind of get to make art the way I want to make art on a daily basis, and I'm gonna sleep in my bed tonight beside my wife with space and a shower, you know, real life, not the tour, the the not on a bust in anyone's bubble that's that's hearing. And again, I'm a guy that just jumps off from time to time, not a dude that lives all the time on a bus. Like the slick of that war off within a couple of bits. But it's I've met some good friends, and and I wasn't saying that negatively and dispersing. I was saying it to say what I've learned from some of my of my touring homies is how to be satisfied with a little. We can make fun with a kickball in this open parking lot tonight because there's nothing else to do. We're in the middle of nowhere, Houston, Texas, at you know, an amphitheater parking lot. Well, this is what we're gonna do. We're gonna grill out, we're gonna play kickball, or we're gonna tattoo. You you learn to be satisfied with just what's right here and what's around you and appreciate things. So I've gained that sense of like, yeah, it's it's this is it's it's it's cool. Yeah, pretty much. Or to like the carottery, the Yes.

SPEAKER_00 49:10

Yeah, you focus on how uh the relationship that you're there with and the reality of like we're doing this together. And it's not so much like, how do we go to a theme park? How do we go to the this place? How do we experience something? It's like, well, this is the experience. You and I together, bored out of our damn minds in a parking lot, is where is what we're gonna remember 10 years from now. We're not gonna remember. I mean, sure, it's nice to go to shows, it's nice to go to movies, it's nice to be entertained. But the reality is, is I'm going to remember the quiet moments I spend with my kids and my friends more than the big moments we had together.

SPEAKER_01 49:40

Can I tell you something that I get too? Is I have a tendency to wake up way earlier than anyone else on that bus, and the machine gets moving early in the day for that rock show that people show up for at night. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:51

Take for granted how that happens.

SPEAKER_01 49:53

Yeah. It is fun to sit in the back of an auditorium or a theater or a club or I don't really, I've not done anything in like stadium-based things, but like an amphitheater, things of that nature, and just sit in the back, do my morning coffee, check emails, do whatever, but then watch, just watch the thing come together by the time that the band's on stage to play. I mean, it's amazing to see the effort and the work that goes into that that no one thinks about.

unknown 50:20

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 50:20

That was an open room.

unknown 50:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:23

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 50:24

Yeah, it's cool. I I went backstage for a show out here at Mission Ballroom and like was going back to like meetup of the band afterwards, and like walked backstage, and like you've you know, we've got like people like in the hard hats, you've got people like with all the rigs and stuff, and you're just like, oh, this is like this is like a work job. This is like I'm on a construction site for for the rig that they had set up in this venue for one for two hours, three hours. Like, that's all the work I went into for two to three hours of a show.

SPEAKER_01 50:49

The load-in, load out of a of a setup in New York City is absolutely amazing. It's unions like you better not touch anything. You better get out of it. Nothing. But they'll have a wave of people, like a parade in and out. You're like, they unloaded and got all of that in in I think 12 minutes. What just happened? Because space is a commodity, time is of the essence. I mean it's it's amazing to see people that just proficiency.

SPEAKER_03 51:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:19

And just generally, you know, proficient musicians, workers, it's just it's all I like process in general, and that's a that's a huge process all coming together.

SPEAKER_00 51:28

Yep, yep. And it makes, I mean, yeah, some I just respect because I'm like, I know this took so much more communicating than I will ever understand. This took so many people being on the same page, or when someone's on the same page, making sure like, hey, ran it back in. Let's get it like this is what we need to be doing right now, and keeping it all going. And like, yeah, as I get older, watching that humanity is fascinating to me, you know?

SPEAKER_01 51:49

Yep.

unknown 51:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:51

But again, bringing in the parental understanding is these are conversations I get to have with my children about less than obvious, less than standard jobs.

unknown 52:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:00

Hey, you know, there are people out there that make a living setting up the sound for this concert you're gonna go to tonight with your homegirls and have a good time. There are people that can draw pictures for a living and somehow have found a way to make that happen. There are people, yeah, so giving them the opportunity to see a little bit behind the curtain of options. It's been rewardingly fun.

SPEAKER_00 52:20

And it's like, you know how this venue wasn't disgusting, and whenever you walked around, it wasn't sticky and there wasn't trash everywhere? That's because people are actually taking the time to clean, make sure like they have an actual process to reset this entire venue so it doesn't get disgusting. So, how I end every episode is ask every guest a series of five questions. Learn rapid fire, so you got some time to think about them. So the first question is Did you have any backup names for your kids? Like, is there any names that you almost named your two kids?

SPEAKER_01 52:48

Yes. So my daughter's name is Olivia Karas. We call her Liv, L-I-V. And because of my life of skateboarding growing up, well, there I mean, I still there's a skateboard in my truck now. Uh how smart is that? I meant my living with my wrist, right? You can't get rid of stupid, right? You don't age out of it. Yeah, it's embedded. But we contemplated potentially naming her Ollie. Maybe Cash was an idea. Okay. And then they and then we we pitched around the idea of the name Ebon for all. Not Evan, but Evan. But my last name's Harbin. So Evan Harbin, it's like Ebben Harbin. So we live in a state of speech impediment. So she will. We landed on Olivia Karras uh and live became a nickname. My son's name is uh Bowman Dean, and that's a reverse of my my grandfather on my mom's side. His name is Dean Bowman. Cool. So uh Dean Bowen, Bowman Dean, we we flipped the script on it. And I was laying in bed one night thinking. So it's so funny that so Chip andor Chipper are both nicknames. Neither one are my actual name. Yeah. My mother calls me Bodie. My my I call my son Bodie. So I was laying in bed one night. B O from Bowman, D E from Dean. Bodie. And the reference connectivity was because my mother would call me Bodie when I was a small child, struggling with, you know, with my speech. I couldn't say, but mom, I'm just a little boy trying to get out of trouble. But I'm just a little Bodie. So that's where Bodie takes in. But mine attaches a bit more purpose. But his was locked in pretty, pretty early, just out of hardened nonsense. And then it's a cool. I like the name. Uh but then it's that's a weird. And school and all of his friends call him Bowman. Family calls him Bodie. I call him Bodie Bean, Boogie, Bodhisattva. Yeah. Got a million little names. But like I said, Liv. So his was set. Liv was maybe Ollie. Okay. Maybe Evan, maybe Cash, but Liv's what it is.

SPEAKER_00 54:40

That's awesome. My four and a half-year-old son, whenever he wants something, we'll go, please, and put his hands like to the side of his face and do a big lip. And I'm like, who taught you this? I'm gonna say a no to that. Whatever it is you want, I'm buying two of them. That's right. That's fine. This is yeah, whatever. Who'd you murder? Like, what do I need where's the body? Where do I hide it? That's awesome. Um, next question. Who's your like favorite TV or movie dad?

SPEAKER_01 55:05

All right. So I don't watch a lot of television, but I do have strong references from Bundy seems like is the like the consummate, like the go-to dad of my generation, I think. Yeah, totally. Yeah. You know who I'm going to though is Dr. Evil in Mini Me. But let me tell you what's hilarious about Dr. Evil in Mini Me.

unknown 55:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:27

Because he actually has a son, Scott Evil.

SPEAKER_03 55:30

Yes.

unknown 55:31

You're right.

SPEAKER_01 55:33

So get you get the double the double connection there, is we're not even talking about it, son, we're talking about the kid he made. Yeah, correct. And that might be offensive because it is a kid. I'm not, I don't think that's fair to refer to Minnie Me as a kid. It's true. He's a clone, but he's the father figure to his clone. Yeah, this 2026. Who are we to determine what family means?

unknown 55:54

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 55:54

We're waiting for the answer.

SPEAKER_00 55:56

You're right. He does Seth Green is absolutely 100% his son, and he hates his son, but gives all of his love to his personality.

SPEAKER_01 56:05

So I mean, clearly great parenting.

SPEAKER_00 56:08

Great parenting. I think Married with Children, I was too young for whenever it came out. But doing this podcast, I am realizing how much more of a cultural moment it was. Because it to me it was like it was the Simpsons when by the time I was like coming of age and everything, and Homer Simpson had kind of taken Al Bundy's spot. But I can play I don't even like I'm also one that like I haven't really watched Married with Children as an adult because it no one like not that many people talk about it, but I know it was definitely a cultural moment that everyone watched, understood, and loved.

SPEAKER_01 56:36

Yeah, it was still it was rebellious television.

SPEAKER_00 56:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:40

I don't know what this is, and I don't I don't think this is why I don't watch a lot of television because I don't take myself this seriously. But I absolutely hate in sitcom formatted television, the dad is always the apple.

SPEAKER_00 56:54

Yeah, he's always an idiot.

SPEAKER_01 56:54

Why is the dad always the jerk? The the idiot, the clown, the buffoon, the like wow. Yeah. And maybe I'm yeah, salty. I'm like, oh no, no. It's actually like he's under control, and that's the start, that's what's the problem.

SPEAKER_00 57:07

Yep. Yeah. It's actually been talked a lot about a lot on here. It's like I think in the 2010s is whenever you had more sitcoms, more shows where the dad is more like a good community member, someone who knows his kids' names, you know, like stuff like that. But like yeah, in the 80s and 70s, it was just like he's there to discipline or ruin the mood, and that's his entire job.

SPEAKER_01 57:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He only comes into frame to for them to get the Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 57:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, like, cause even like Friday Night Lights, the dad figure in that is great. Modern Family is one of like the best TV dads of all time. But like, yeah, that wasn't until the 2010s. Well, yeah, it's gotten better. It's gotten better, trust me. It's but also like I like movies. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 57:52

Like, I'm I'm not against the screen. I just I don't watch 30-minute formatted television almost ever. I like I like.

unknown 57:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:00

Yeah. Give me something to dig into, you know.

SPEAKER_00 58:03

That works. Someone the other did say their favorite dad was uh the dude from the Big Lebowski, because he is technically a father at the end of the movie. He gets Julianne Moore pregnant. He never, I don't know if he ever meets his son, but you know, maybe he would turn into a great dad.

SPEAKER_01 58:18

I've always wanted to have a dog on I have a dog with a new dog, so I could like legally papers name it Jeffrey Lebowski. But when I introduced the dog to people, I'm thinking he's calling the dude because he's not into brevity.

SPEAKER_00 58:30

Yeah, yeah. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 58:31

See how many people don't get the joke?

SPEAKER_00 58:34

Pretty much. My favorite obscure line. There's a lot of favorite obscure lines from that. He's annihilated. He's like, oh, that must be exhausting. Yeah.

unknown 58:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:43

It's so there's something wrong.

SPEAKER_01 58:45

I didn't I didn't take the I didn't take the dog bowling. I didn't buy the dog's shoes or rent the dog's shoes. That's another podcast.

SPEAKER_00 58:52

Of just random obscure quotes with no frame of reference. It's so good. Next question. Do you have a replacement curse word? Do you have like uh, you know, you're around the kids, you don't want to curse, but you need to curse. Or do you say the curse word? That's the most common answer.

SPEAKER_01 59:06

No, I don't swear in front of I swear a lot. Uh yeah. More than I more than I should. But I grew up, my mother, my dad is uh is a Southern Baptist pastor. Okay, yeah. So I grew up in a pretty they were really, really hip for whatever you were just thinking I said. They were cooler than that. Yeah but a very conservative, a very conservative household.

SPEAKER_03 59:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 59:28

And I grew up in the world that I grew up in, and there again, this is not a faith-based thing. This is we're talking language. And if we're gonna tiptoe into that, I don't think that a God that, if I'm gonna understand a God that saved my soul for eternity and loves me the way he does, I don't think he's that concerned over the word shit. I just don't think I don't think he cares so much. No, no. But I was raised in a in a household of respect.

SPEAKER_00 59:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 59:51

Because my mother was my it's funny enough, my dad's not as concerned about that kind of stuff as my mom. My mom is far more concerned with like the social norms and you know, she's concerned about me being attached to her, all that. Absolutely, yeah. She's she's not a fan of swearing. So I grew up trying to curb that in the house. Yeah. So I think maybe that's subconsciously, and uh my daughter's hyper involved in FCA and her church youth program, and they they're faithful to their church on every Sunday. Which again, I'm not there's not a single thing about that I'm against. But there's a dynamic that's different from sitting down with a 17-year-old young Christian and explaining, you know, you know, God, the God of the universe, and and can you know, understanding these what what is God really concerned with the action or the intent or the Yeah, yeah. We'll get there. Right now, it's best that I just be respectful and not swear around my kids because one, it's just being a better dad. Pretty much it. But before that sort of their backstory, I automatically respect it even further. Um, and it's just it's kind of come natural to not swear around them much because I automatically and it's just guarding I'm not quite I'm not really double lives or anything, but like it's respect. I want to be better at being respectful with my language in here working with people on a daily basis.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:04

Yes. Yeah. Not everyone's you're showing, I mean, like, if I was like, hey Chip, and if it would hurt my feelings if you said this, and then you say that word for the next hour in front of my face. Yeah, it's like I I like you know it's gonna hurt your mom. You know your mom is going to bristle if you curse around to her. You know your daughter's gonna be like, Dad, come on, if you're curse around her. So why would why why give an opportunity for disconnection? Why not just not say the damn word? And you'll be fine.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:28

My kids both go to public school.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:30

They're not they're not immune to it, they're not shy from it. That doesn't mean they have to hear it from me. So I can you can set a standard that goes over and above yourself. Yeah. Again, I have zero convictions at all about language or any of that. It's total heart space.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:44

But again, explaining that to an 11-year-old and a seventh year old, why am I doing that? Just teach them to be good people and conviction sets in, and then you learn and grow and shake from that. Yeah, pretty much. So no, I don't have any replacement work. I'm sure I do. I have it processed. Okay. I don't have goaty words. I just typically don't.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:01

You just avoid it in general. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:03

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:04

That works.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:05

I'm not an angry guy anyway, so I don't do I'm not like sure. Well, that's messed up with it.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:10

Yeah. You're not usually amped up to a space where you're really because yeah, most of the time if I'm eager to curse, it's because I'm bristled, I'm ready to I'm like, oh, what's going on? I'm like everything. So if you're not in that mental space on a consistent basis, then it's like, oh, well, it takes more if it takes also more effort for you to then start cursing, it's like, oh, well, just try not to get in a place in which you're eager to curse and be angry at everyone, and it's actually not a bad way to live.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:35

That if I'm on a tour bus with the homies or at a show or out, well then yeah, sailor mouth, here we go. Probably the environment.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:44

My wife, maybe a touch more respectful, even though she wouldn't care. Uh I'm just kind of sailor mouth. But then, like my kids, well, you just naturally there's there's levels to it. What do you even talk about? So that's obvious though.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:57

Yeah, pretty much. Yep. Which also is not a bad thing to teach your kids because that's reality. It's like, yeah, how you talk to your friends versus your boss versus the owner of your company or something like that. All different word choice. All different word choice for all of one of those people. Absolutely. Okay, next question is what's like one of your favorite activities to do with your kids? Like toy, activity, something you do with them.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:18

My son, there's a dope skate park in my tongue, my my kids' hometown. So my son and I will go uh and and skate a bit there. He's like I said he's a soccer kid, so we'll we'll we'll kick them. If we need to talk, like have some sort of a let's get into it. I have learned as a dad that the best way for both of my kids to communicate is if we're doing an activity while that's happening. They don't even realize. So soccer ball. My my daughter is on her school tennis team, so I'll go out and like lob up balls or or do enough to we can get out and and and work out some stuff for her to, you know, work out some surf, work out some volleys, or you know, I'm skilled enough that I can get out there and do that for her. I can I'm not the I'm never gonna be the dad that takes them to do the thing. I'm gonna be the dad that takes them and we do the thing. Like I'm not taking my son to the skate park. We are skating together.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:05

Yeah, gotcha, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:06

So we have that. We have a family tradition that I don't know that my kids have fully processed, but every time my mom is around, usually the the key week vacations, we play Chinese checkers. There's a Chinese checkers table or game set up on the table, and some version of two people seems to always be playing while I work together. It just seems to happen. Both my kids or me and my son, or me and my dad, or my mom and my dad, my mom and my wife, my my wife and my daughter. It's just uh that's always there. That's kind of become kind of the one of the biggest traditions of of the Harbins family. That's cool. Chinese checkers. Yeah, yeah. That's cool. That's awesome. So my parents live just outside DC. My kids live in suburban Charlotte. Now I'm here in Nashville, so we refer to that as the tricky triangle. Uh, and it's it's brutal for us to be able to get together. But when we do, we move that time. That's there's no phones, there's we lock in as a family, and there's no Trump talk, there's no no one's no one's talking about the new idols record. I mean, we're just it's family things, and it's it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:09

Yeah, and honestly, I think that's important because it is, I mean, you gotta remember that you love each other, and you gotta focus on that sometimes. It's it's it's very easy to think of reasons why I cannot connect with someone. And why not, I mean, within reason, remember like, hey, here's why we love each other, here's how we're family. So let's try to focus on that more than the things we know we're gonna fight about.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:29

Absolutely. And we're in a situation where the our family dynamic is is is uniquely different in in reference to most, but we get the allowance to define what that means, yeah, you know, each step of the way. So it's yeah, it's journey, it's not easy. It's I mean, dude, my kids get that far away. My family being it's brutal. I I I cry over that distance from my kids at least once a week.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:52

But they're not gonna miss a FaceTime or a phone call or a text from their dad every day.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:58

Every day. It doesn't matter if I'm in Iceland probably. in Hawaii, if I'm Chicago, if I'm on a bus, if I'm on a they're they're getting they're I'm connecting because I'm I've committed myself to that and I don't know any other way to do it. So that's awesome. But then you know that's how my family raised me. So then when I'm able to get with my mom and dad and my kids and we're all together it's just it's amaz it's it's rad. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:18

We got that coming up soon. Oh that's awesome. That's great. And then last question is what's like as you think about your kids like getting older and everything, what's like a moment of their life where you're really excited for them to like enter into that phase of life? Is there anything for like your daughter or son like, oh man, I can't wait until like you start to experience this aspect of like being alive basically.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:39

Yeah well it's gonna be fun to see um how my daughter takes all of this knowledge and book learning and and scholastic education. It's gonna be fun to see her take that into the real world and humanize these opportunities. Certainly if it's medicine because she's got a I mean profoundly profoundly changing people's lives and connecting and she has a strong interest towards pediatrics children. Cool yeah so a whole I mean not only are you benefiting the child but the family I mean it's just a good opportunity of I'm so I'm really looking forward to seeing how she can take take what little bit of of knowledge I can in Pete and her and and you know loving people, care for people creatively with this like just core you know not skill set. It's gonna it's gonna be fun. My son, well I mean we'll see he he's an 11 year old boy that's just all about soccer and and I mean just that and so not exactly sure what where his where his mind's at fully yet but have to go we'll see. He is a bit more of me than she is in terms of like his you know he's not mischievous but he'll push his limits.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:48

Yeah yeah from my experience the firstborn seems to be especially if it's a daughter is very rules following what's the order what's the pattern everything. And the secondborn no matter gender no matter what is just a unique blend of chaos just to keep you in trust to keep things interesting and keep you on your toes at all times. Get in contact with you how do we do that?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:16

Well I got some stuff out there. Let's see there's my website it's just my name just Chipper Harbin to C-H-I-P-P-E-R H A R B Bob I N dot com my website is exactly the same as Chipper Harbin search Chipper Harbin Tattoos it's gonna come up with me uh you could find uh I mean I got some stuff on YouTube. I started a YouTube channel years ago and I think I posted three things about it and just never did it again. But other people have done stuff for me out there so you can you can find my work on the internet if you try hard enough. Yeah yeah if you want to connect with me after said finding my website has my email address uh Instagram has my website address it's chipperharber at yahoo.com but uh I I follow through a forum it makes it easier for the both of us if I'm too expensive for you then sweet we never have to talk to each other so I'm not gonna offend you you're not gonna offend me cool and I mean that cool there are 200 tattoo shops in Davidson County. You're gonna find corn to tattoo you it doesn't have to be me. I'm very thankful that you chose me but it's highly important that we're on the same page as it works and we're just not you're not gonna align yourself with everyone so I'm thankful I get to do that but all of that is handled through the website and I would love to work with whoever wants to to make a tattoo but this is a fun conversation man. It's a cool I don't I I do podcasts but they're almost or not live I do some but they're almost always about art. They're almost never about being a dad.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:42

Yeah in that's what it's to me well I mean it is like it matters it's like because I think your art and how you it's it's all intertwined and like it we're never as segmented as we'd like to think. You know you're never just a it's you're an artist you're creative it's you hold all these identities at once. You wear all these hats at once. And so to thank you for being one to because I never do like a very strong structure episode it just blends throughout everything it's like I mean so let's talk about music let's talk about artist talk about kids because it all it all matters and it's all intertwined.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:10

Sure. So yeah I mean it I think everything we've talked about is me on some level.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:14

So yeah yeah pretty much yeah and it's all part of like your identity and reality is like no matter what type of dad you are if you're creative if you're not you hopefully you're trying to sh prove you're trying to show your kids who you are as a whole person. I think is like one of the hardest things as a parent and as a human is for the people you love letting them know so many different aspects of who you are is like hard to being being flawed being willing to be yeah allow your kids to see that you are flawed is is tricky.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:44

Like there's learning in that and that's the point.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:46

For both of you for both of you there's like okay cool I don't want to be back in this place but what lesson can I what lesson can I help teach in this moment and honestly I'm probably teaching myself let's be real here. Yeah to preach preach dude right so sweet man appreciate your time chipper enjoy the rest of your day thank you so much for listening to the episode make sure to follow us on Instagram TikTok and YouTube at the Imperfect Dads Podcast and make sure to give us five stars for every listen to us. Music, editing and production is all done by me. Make sure to tune in on Mondays and most Thursdays for episodes this podcast is part of the Never at FaZe Network. Make sure to go to Never at FaZe Network dot com to learn more about 'em