Episode 253 | Cameron Conrad, Your Elder Emo Mom

On this episode of The Imperfect Dads Podcast, Devon is joined by Cameron Conrad, better known online as Your Elder Emo Mom. Cameron is a creator in the Never A Phase Network, where she shares her love of emo, pop-punk, concerts, nostalgia, and the music that continues to shape generations of fans.

While Cameron is known for her music content, this conversation focuses on something even more personal: motherhood and the lasting impact of growing up with a father in recovery.

Devon has spoken with many dads about sobriety and the decision to get sober, but this is the first conversation from the perspective of a child who experienced life with a parent in recovery. Cameron shares how her dad's commitment to sobriety shaped her childhood, influenced her family, and continues to impact her life today. It's an encouraging reminder that recovery doesn't just transform one person—it can change an entire family for generations.

They also talk about raising two daughters with very different personalities, supporting kids through dance, continuing to attend concerts after becoming parents, finding a school that feels like the right fit, and how Cameron built a community through TikTok and Instagram by celebrating emo culture and motherhood.

Whether you're a parent, someone in recovery, an emo or pop-punk fan, or simply looking for an honest conversation about family, healing, and raising kids, this episode is for you.

In this episode:

• Growing up with a dad in recovery
• How sobriety impacts the entire family
• Motherhood and raising two daughters
• Parenting children with different personalities
• Supporting kids in dance and extracurricular activities
• Continuing to go to concerts after having children
• Emo and pop-punk culture
• The Never A Phase Network
• Building an audience on TikTok and Instagram
• Balancing content creation with family life

If you enjoyed this episode, follow The Imperfect Dads Podcast, leave a rating and review, and share it with another parent, someone in recovery, or an emo fan who would appreciate this conversation.

Follow us on Facebook and Instagram and TikTok YouTube. Look for new episodes of The Imperfect Dads Podcast every Monday and Thursday.

This podcast is part of the Never A Phase Network, follow them on instagram at @neveraphasenetwork and check out their podcasts like Emo Kids Anonymous  Wasting Time Podcast Certified Fangirl and The Ska Mailman

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:03

Welcome to the Imperfect Dads Podcast. This is your host, Devin. We believe dads care deeply about their family and kids, but they don't always have a space to discuss what their life looks like. Our podcast is a space for dads to discuss the ups and downs of fatherhood and how they feel like they're holding it together or how they're not. Thank you for joining us for this episode. This podcast is part of the Never A Face Network. Make sure to follow them on Instagram or go to the website neverface network.com. On this episode, we have on Cameron Conrad, also known as your elder emo mom. Cameron and I are both part of the Never A Face Network, where people talk about music, nostalgia, concerts, and keeping up with all the emo pop-punk music seen of the past and current. Cameron wanted to do an episode to discuss her life as a mom with two daughters, but also talk about growing up with a dad in recovery and how that shaped her life. I've talked to lots of dads about getting sober and being sober, but never to someone who has a child and watch their dad go through that process. The hope of that part of this conversation is to remind you if you're in recovery, how much it can change your family and your family inertia. And a lot of dads on here talk about legacy and wanting to leave a good legacy. If you can figure out how to get sober and stay sober, it really does change everything for your family line. Besides that, we talked about how her daughters are doing dance, how different their personalities are, still going to shows when you have kids, loving the school her kids go to, and how she started doing content on TikTok and Instagram. Just like one more thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Dad, just start the episode.

SPEAKER_03 1:27

Oh, my bad. Hey, so I always have this problem or issue, mental thing in my head. When I have a mom on the podcast, like it's the imperfect dad. So like, should I create a graphic in which I change it to imperfect parents, imperfect dad plus mom, but that would imply that you and I are mom and dad together, and that's not the story here. So hey, Cameron, welcome to a parenting podcast about imperfections.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:55

Um, so I will give a preface for the episode, just so if you're listening to it, because in the show notes, I'll put the purpose of the episode, but we're not going to start with the purpose of the episode. Um messaged me to say, like, hey, I know you've talked to a lot of dads about going through recovery and getting sober. My dad did that. Would you ever want to talk to a child of someone who did that? And I was like, heck yeah, let's do that, but let's learn about your life first. So, hey, Cameron, tell me like kids, ages, all that good stuff.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Hi, Devin. Yeah. I have two little girls. They are four and seven. Um, and they could not be more different as two humans on the planet, which is an interesting challenge, but it's fun. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 2:36

What's the okay? So, my I have two daughters also and a son. Um, and my daughters are 10 and 8, so they're like 23 months apart. And like, yeah, their personality difference is like fascinating. What have you noticed is different between your daughters so far?

SPEAKER_00 2:52

So my oldest, and this has been true like since they were born. My oldest is like super analytical and like really thoughtful and observant. Like you can just see her eyes. She's always watching everything. And she is like, she lives for a routine. This child wants to know what to expect every moment of the day. Which was really good for me as a new mom because prior to her being born, I was not an organized person at all. I was a chaotic mess. And I had to learn how to be organized for her, which helped me a lot to success like to survive parenthood. But then also just kind of generally in like successful adult life. It's been a useful skill.

SPEAKER_02 3:31

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

But then my youngest finds routines to be hilarious. She has no interest in having an expectation to be met. And if you try to tell her what we're gonna do, she's just gonna choose to do something different. She knows no limits, she does not think before she acts ever. And she's properly unhinged, is my favorite way to describe her.

SPEAKER_03 3:55

Yeah. Which one is more like your personality? So you and your natural state probably a little messy, but you've learned to be more organized. So which like which kid do you find yourself not siding with, but like being like their natural characteristics more like?

SPEAKER_00 4:10

You know, interestingly, I think still my oldest, um, because I tend to be very analytical and pretty careful, organized not so much, but my youngest, the way she just like moves through the world without like without a care still astounds me. I don't understand how she operates that way. It's incredible.

SPEAKER_03 4:28

Yeah, that's so funny because like my oldest is like that, also, where she'll like sit there, like she's fine to sit on the sidelines and observe everything and then step in to do something. And yeah, uh Middle Child is much more like makes new friends at every playground she goes to, but doesn't learn anyone's name, like very big personality and all that. Um, so yeah, it's always funny to me whenever like that pattern still exists, is uh I find myself more analytical. I'm more like someone who sits on the sidelines and feels out the vibe of the group before I start talking. So I feel like I relate to my olders, older kid, but also know my middle child's probably watched me talk to strangers because I talk to anyone that's near me. So that's probably how so it's just it's fascinating to be like, where did you learn this? What did I teach you this? Because that's interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Yeah, it's fascinating.

SPEAKER_03 5:14

Yeah, it is. Okay, so I have to make you talk about Disney a little bit. What makes you love Disney so much? Did you did you choose the Disney life or like was it? I mean, like you've got two daughters, so I get it. But like, were you already a Disney fan before having daughters?

SPEAKER_00 5:28

Yeah, funny enough, I actually have I found this to be a recurring pattern in my life. I didn't realize I was a Disney adult or like a Disney fan until it started to become a thing that I could observe in other people. So the first CD I had in my first car was called Disney Hero Songs. And it was like all of the hero songs from all of the like news renaissance movies.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

And I was obsessed and I knew every single word to every single song. It never registered to me that that was like a thing. Like that there was something unique about being into Disney. And then I went to Disney World once as an adult without kids. Yeah. And I my mind was blown. I've kind of been just like full-on hooked ever since.

SPEAKER_03 6:14

Yeah. What's your okay? So I love Pixar more than I love Disney. Like, whenever I think of stuff my kids watch, whenever the new Pixar thing comes out, I'm very excited about it. And like we're gonna go see us in theaters. Do you have a preference of like the more Disney versus more Pixar films?

SPEAKER_00 6:28

Generally, I lean hard into Disney animation. Okay. But my favorite movie of like recent decades is Monsters University.

SPEAKER_03 6:36

Okay. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

You can't top it.

SPEAKER_03 6:39

Now, listen, I'm not gonna argue this with you because I know you probably already have like a five-point essay of like what I have to. No, I mean, I mean, I love Monsters University also. I think it's great. It's just that like as a sad person, like I just I Inside Out One and Two, I mean, and Kanto makes me weep like every time I watch it. I think the whole concept of like the end of that movie being that like she's felt isolated from her family, and at the end she finally feels welcomed by her family and understands her role is such like a relatable, like finding a purpose in family is such a common story. They illustrated it perfectly, but everyone also working towards their own gifts. So, as someone who is looking for depth in every small detail of life, that's what's wrong with me. So that's all that's the side tangent. That's the side tangent for that.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

So it's fair.

SPEAKER_03 7:25

Yeah, yeah. When did you start accepting that like your love of emo pop punk music is like a big part of your personality? When did that start to become a thing for you?

SPEAKER_00 7:35

So interestingly, same pattern.

SPEAKER_03 7:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:39

As a kid, I was very into sort of the emo punk punk scene, but I was, I guess, afraid of like having my own opinions. So I didn't seek out any music on my own. I just kind of listened to whatever was put in front of me that I liked. And I did sort of dress the part. Uh, even though my hair is dark brown, I had it box-dyed black for all high school, pin straight hair, spikes and jeans and black wife beaters, like the whole shebang.

SPEAKER_02 8:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Didn't recognize that that was like an identity until I sort of fell out of it coming into adulthood. And then really just about a year ago, really, kind of came back into it and started allowing myself to like do the things that felt good. And I was like, oh, okay, actually, this is like part of who I am, and this is like part of my identity. So that's been really fun to experience and kind of grow into.

SPEAKER_03 8:31

Yeah. Well, I I think it also helps that like in the past couple of years, like all those albums are like 20 or 25 years old. So like all these bands are like, hey, we're gonna go play this album from start to finish. So then you end up in a room full of people who are also we're in the same spot of like stepped away from the music and now coming back to it. And they're like, hey, does this mean a lot to you? And everyone's like, Oh yeah, this meant everything to me. And so it's like reconnecting with that younger version of yourself. So it's kind of cool. Yeah, definitely. Which uh, which concert of like, I'm assuming you've gone to some of those type of shows where it's like 20, 25 years since the album came out. Have you gone to many shows like that?

SPEAKER_00 9:06

No, I don't not specifically.

SPEAKER_03 9:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

Not that we're like, you know, targeted around celebrating an anniversary.

SPEAKER_02 9:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

Certainly I've seen a lot of my favorite bands from back then. I've seen Newfound Glory a couple of times, Simple Plan, Blink Alkaline Trio.

SPEAKER_02 9:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

And that always feels really good, particularly, you know, they say like your 30s is like being a teenager but with grown-up money. And it's so great to be able to go and like get the pit passes and buy the merch and like really have the whole experience. That's very gratifying.

SPEAKER_03 9:36

It is. It is. Well, yeah, because like whenever you're like a teenager, it was like I remember going to Best Buy and hoping that like a CD would be like $10 and like not knowing how I could afford a $10 CD. And yet now almost 40 buying like $30 vinyls. Like, yeah, this is fine, this is normal. And I'm like, yeah, 12, 18-year-old me would have not been able to afford any of this stuff at all. No, yeah. I still I can't really do concert merch though, because I am so tall that like I wear it once and I wash and it shrinks, and then I'm just annoyed that I'm such a tall person, you know?

SPEAKER_00 10:07

The the one disadvantage that you have one you can't rock the concert merch.

SPEAKER_03 10:11

Exactly. No, no, no, unless it's a hoodie, but those hoodies are always like 60 bucks, and like that's that's too much in my mind.

unknown 10:16

They are.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Oh, they're worth it though. I've got a couple of um alkaline trio hoodies in particular that are just like so well made. I live in them. They're the best.

SPEAKER_03 10:27

It's good to be cozy, you know? Let's just say coziness is kind of the goal of everyday life.

SPEAKER_00 10:32

Elite, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 10:34

It is. What what phase of life are your daughters in? I know you've told me before that like they do dance stuff where like dance is a part of their life. How's like how's that going?

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Uh really good. So we just had a recital this past weekend.

SPEAKER_03 10:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

For my four-year-old, it was her first time on stage ever. It was super exciting. I was a little worried that she might like get the stage fright thing. Yeah. Or she can be very clingy to me. So I was afraid she wasn't gonna let me like watch away and wal walk away and watch. But she did such a good job. She was like grinning. Her face was just one giant smile the whole time she was on stage. It was so precious. So that was really special. And then for my oldest, this was her first time having more than one dance in a show. So she had like a costume change. Cool. And then she had to like stay for the final curtain call. So it was like a big thing for her. It was a little more draining on her. And actually, two of her teachers were graduating seniors, and she didn't realize that until after the last show, and they like came and gave their final hugs goodbye, and then she was like a weepy mess for the rest of the day, which was really sad. Um, but they're really loving it. Uh, and we found a really nice studio that feels very like supportive and positive. It's not super competitive. Um, and there's no like pressure to like look a certain way or be a certain way. So I feel really good about where we are. I've just loved watching them kind of go through the experiences. It's really special.

SPEAKER_03 11:56

That's so awesome. And like finding a dance studio where you vibe with them is so like crucial and so important. I'm so glad. Cause like, yeah, you don't want to cause like lifelong trauma because you send them to a dance studio where they were very big perfectionists just because you wanted your kid to do dance.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

Yeah, no, actually, I so I grew up training pre-professional ballet. And the studio where I trained is actually the state ballet of Virginia. They're currently facing like three lawsuits from people in like my class from like like social and physical abuse. So I knew I've always known I wasn't gonna put them there.

SPEAKER_02 12:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

Um, and then competitive dance is really popular, but that freaks me out. I don't, I don't understand like pitting kids against each other. It weirded me out. So I'm really happy we found a place that we found. None of that.

SPEAKER_03 12:44

I understand. Well, like, so having three kids, like everything is about how do we do this together. Like whenever I'm at home with three kids during the summer, it's like, how do we do this together? How do we work to our strengths? So, like, yeah, being in a hyper competitive, like, go be better than that kid is like all of my worst instincts. I know how to try to be better than people. I'm I know how to be elitist as hell. And I'm like, I don't, I don't want to live in this mental space because I'm not a good person whenever I'm here. So this, I don't want to do that to my kids either.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

Yeah, yeah. It's such a tricky thing to figure out like how to push them and put them into things to help them grow, but without like pushing them over the edge.

SPEAKER_03 13:18

Correct. And I'm sure you've dealt with this also, is like, I don't want to make this your entire identity because at some point in time you won't be able to live up to the standard that you think you should be at. And then you're gonna have an identity crisis. So, how do I make you how do I make you take this seriously with the full knowledge that you are also much more than this, but also take it seriously is like freaking hard.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Yes. Yes, near impossible. We'll figure it out.

SPEAKER_03 13:42

Because it is. That's cool. So my oldest daughter, whenever she tries to do anything with performance, gets inside her own head constantly because she has some very perfectionist tendencies. Does your eldest daughter do that also?

SPEAKER_00 13:53

She does. She's kind of gotten out of it a little bit this year. The other thing that's really nice about our studio is it is attached to a like small local professional company. Cool. So the kids that are in the like formal training program get to do the professional ballets. So she did the Nutcracker and then she did their spring ballet, was the Wizard of Oz. So she's actually had three shows this year.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

Cool.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

And I think the frequency has helped. Like she's getting more comfortable. She didn't really have any nerves at all this time, which was the first time I've seen that.

SPEAKER_03 14:22

That's also really cool. Yeah. It's really cool. It's yeah, it's so cool when you can put your kid into something and like actually watch their growth, watch them have like a not a breakdown, but be really nervous about something, and then like familiarize it and which they know that they can handle it and do it, is like makes you feel like you've done something right as a parent, which is always nice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

Yeah, it's really cool. That's actually, and I meant to mention this to you. I almost think this could be its own episode.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

That's part of the reason my kids are in the particular school that they're at. We go to an Acton Academy affiliate school, which leans really hard into allowing kids to try and fail and like learn through failure. So it's a very like hands-off approach. And that is a game changer because once you learn to put your kids in a situation and like trust them to figure it out and then just kind of be there to help them if they need support afterwards. It's amazing. It's so cool to watch. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 15:15

Yeah, that's really cool. That's really cool. Because I I think as a parent or as a family unit, my hope is to create an environment where they can explore and like see hook how they naturally are in a situation and then ha know what their safety net is. And it's very easy to get focused on like I don't know, something as dumb as like, I how many people do you know? Because I know a lot, where like they still have the trauma of loading the dishwasher and their parents screaming at them for loading the dishwasher. And it's like, hey, just ask your kid. I just spend so much time explaining stuff to my kids. Like, oh, how do you naturally do this? Okay, cool. Hey, when you do it like this, here's another angle to think about it, here's another angle. Think about it. The way you did it, let's see what happens when that when we do that, and then we know what potentially could happen next, as opposed to you're just wrong. And why don't you trust your instincts? It's like you just told me all my instincts are wrong constantly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:05

So that's cool. I didn't know schools like existed like that, where it's more like, hey, let's figure out where your natural instinct is and like this what let's problem solve with it. Let's work through it together.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

It's really incredible. I I could talk about it for hours, so I I won't go on too long, but it's a really cool model. They lean into like Socratic learning. So they're always telling kids to ask questions and inquire. Yeah. Um, and the kids are kind of encouraged to support each other and also to hold each other accountable. It's that's so cool.

SPEAKER_03 16:35

I don't know. No, genuinely. Like it's because to me, like um what's really fascinating and like the um tension that exists with the parent is I think you know you've done it successfully, is if your kids don't really need you whenever they're an adult. It means you've set them up to know how to handle the world, how to process the world, and not like be completely overwhelmed by the world. It's like what my definition of like, have I done been successful successful as a parent. If my kids can do that in their 20s and 30s, then I feel like, oh, I must have helped you regulate your nervous system, helped you figure out how to like work systems, how to process stuff in a way in which you know you've got this no matter what you face, is like that would make me feel like I've done something right.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

Yeah. Yep, that's the goal. And it is, I also think just from like a day-to-day parenting perspective, it's really nice to take that approach where like you're not responsible for teaching them how to execute perfectly. Yeah. So that like if they have a failure, it's not like you're not a failure as a parent. You're just giving them the room to learn for themselves. Then you don't have to be so deeply involved in every single single thing that they do. And you can kind of be your own independent person and have your own reasonable expectations for yourself. I think it makes for a much healthier and like more comfortable parenting experience, which is great.

SPEAKER_03 17:48

Yep. Well, because there might be like a moment where like I remember in college, I didn't take a class or two seriously, and I got an F on a test or two. And my parents are just like, cool, so we're like go talk to the professor. Like, uh, we're not fixing this for you. I'm like, figure it out. Why would why would I expect you to? But like that then taught me like, hey man, whenever you met whenever you take a step that was a misstep, there are actually steps you can do to get back on the right path. And that is like, I don't know, it's very easy to do something quote unquote wrong and then think that your missed step is your whole identity. And it's like, oh no, that's just you just had a bad day. So like, hey, you can you can figure this out. You can always get back it, yeah, you can always figure it out. So you got this.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

Yeah. Yeah. I know adults who still haven't learned that lesson.

SPEAKER_03 18:27

Yep. Yep. It's I don't know. I could talk for hours about identity and being in tune with your identity and how much that affects your day-to-day choices and decisions and just being aware of what validation you hope for in every room you walk into. So okay. Before we talk about like fun stuff like addiction and stuff, hey, so I know you exist because we're both part of the Never a Phase Network and everything. So how'd you how'd you even start like an account for like talking about email music and going to concerts and stuff? Tell me that lore, and then we'll talk into more serious stuff.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

So that is kind of a fun story. I actually started because my day job had gotten kind of slow and boring. I'd been used to working in a really like fast-paced environment, and then everything just kind of like slowed down to where I really didn't have any like deadlines or any kind of pressure, and I was bored out of my mind. So I was looking for a side gig and I decided initially that I was gonna be a Disney travel agent. So I went and I got my travel agent certification and started posting Disney TikToks to try and like, you know, do the thing. I learned pretty quickly that I am a terrible salesperson. I never successfully sold to anyone other than myself. I did earn one commission from myself, which was great.

SPEAKER_03 19:40

Fantastic. Well done.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

Yeah, yeah. I feel very accomplished.

SPEAKER_03 19:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

But I also found that like making the Disney content, even though it was something I loved, felt really like laborious and I was having a hard time like keeping up with it. So then I was just sort of like scrolling casually through TikTok. I had never used TikTok before. I was like 37 before I got my account.

SPEAKER_02 20:02

Same, same.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Amazing. And I started to just like come across people who were like doing lip syncing videos to these songs that I loved when I was a kid. And I was like, this is cool. And so I kind of got more and more into it. My algorithm ended up, you know, being flooded. Came across people like Rob La Foon and Swemo and C Z B. And I was like, okay, this is fun. So I decided to kind of play around with it. Honestly, it was just like a break from making the Disney content. And gradually it became something that I like really wanted to do. And I had this moment where I realized like this is supposed to be fun. If the Disney stuff feels painful, but the music stuff feels effortless, like maybe that's where I'm supposed to be. Yeah, of course. And so I kind of followed that, um, started to lean into it. And then right around that time was actually when Napnet came together and I kind of watched it happen because I was connected with some of them independently. And then I reached out to Rob and I was like, Hey, you guys are doing something really cool. Do you need another teammate?

SPEAKER_02 21:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

And they let me guest contribute for a while and then invited me on. Uh and it's been such an incredible experience. I've made some very cool friends and met some really cool bands. And now what I do mostly is get to know like emerging artists who are coming up in the scene. And that's been really special because I get to actually get to know them and build relationships, and those people who are like so passionate about what they do. It's just it's the most fun I think I've ever had, honestly.

SPEAKER_03 21:37

That's so cool. And like, yeah, I feel like if uh I don't know, so much of life is already doing stuff that kind of takes energy and doesn't always give you energy back. So if you're able to acknowledge that of like, oh, this Disney stuff, while I love it, it's part of me, it drains me every time I deal with this, versus like, yeah, discovering new music is always exciting. Discovering new music is always like interesting and like yeah, it can give so much energy. So, like, yeah, if people People are then like, hey, I want to talk to you about the new music I make. It's like, oh, cool. I love discussing this. Let's do this. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Please, please, absolutely. I'll spend an hour talking to you about the single that you make.

SPEAKER_03 22:11

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

And yeah, it's so fun.

SPEAKER_03 22:13

Nice. That's so cool. Um, what do you feel like from doing it? Like, what's like the most fun about it? Is it just talking to new artists, talking to new musicians, or like, how do you feel about the community that's being built by you posting stuff about it?

SPEAKER_00 22:24

It's incredible. I think really like all of it, whether it's participating in Napnet or the broader sort of like Napnet fan community that we're building, the artists, the folks that are following me, it's all about relationships. And sort of like so many of us are coming back to this sort of identity that we found as kids, and we're all leaning into authenticity, which I think is something that the world is really craving right now. And it just feels really good to be surrounded in a virtual sense with people who are just seeking the same kind of joy through authenticity and friendship and like honesty. I it yeah, it's the people, really. All the people, all of them.

SPEAKER_03 23:03

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, I think there's like this thing about like with music that you listen to back then, especially for that scene, where like, yeah, in southern Indiana, like I was usually the one telling people to listen to the music, like and all that. So, like when you find someone who actually knows like the same band as you, like if I find someone who like has listened to any Saddle Creek Omaha based band, I'm like, cool. So we are now best friends. You don't know it yet. And I'm gonna try to not come on too intensely. But you said you said you kind of like this band, and I know way too much about this band. So this figure out our friendship because it'll be awesome. So that's a great connection point.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

Yeah, it's incredible.

SPEAKER_03 23:37

Do you still okay? So I feel like you go to shows pretty regularly. Um, do you like have family in town? Like, does your sister come over and watch the kids while you go to shows? Like, how are you still going to shows when you got two kids?

SPEAKER_00 23:47

Yeah, so I am really lucky to have a massive family and also a massive sort of chosen family around me. I'm the oldest of five. My the some my eldest younger sister, Mandy, she's the one who usually tags along with me to the shows. She has two girls who are about the same age as mine. So often her husband will keep the kids for us when we go out together.

SPEAKER_03 24:11

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

Yeah. Otherwise, I've got, you know, sisters, sisters-in-law, friends, they all kind of rotate. And luckily, my kids really like spending time with all these people. So they never like complain about it, which is really nice because it is kind of a hard balance to strike, you know. Like, I want to be the parent who's like modeling being a whole human and sort of like pursuing my own goals and doing things that make me happy. But I don't want to make my kids sacrifice for that.

SPEAKER_02 24:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

So it's it's challenging to figure out. I'm not gonna claim that I like execute on it perfectly, but you know, the the goal is to be able to continue to do this in a way that feels fulfilling, but isn't taking away from my time with them.

SPEAKER_03 24:51

Yep. Totally get it. Yep. Nope. We uh my wife was out of town this past weekend for like a trip with her sisters, and American football is playing on Friday. And so, like, yeah, I had like a neighborhood kid, like watch them, basically watch a movie with them and put them to bed. But yeah, there's always that balance in my head of like, well, like do it this weekend, but like if they're like maybe next weekend, don't because you want, yeah, balance because like you want your kids to know like you have your own personality, you have your own life, but also you don't want them to think that your own personality in life is more important than how you feel about them.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

Exactly. Yeah, it's so difficult.

SPEAKER_03 25:26

So nope, and it honestly, I think one thing I always tell parents is like, by the way, it'll change like next time. Like this time it might have gone great. You might have gotten the sitter, you left, and everything was great. And the next time you do it, your youngest is clinging you for dear life, screaming, crying that you're leaving. And you're like, Cool, I I'm a monster. That's how I feel this time. So you just keep trying and over-communicating to your kids. It's the only thing I know to do.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

Yeah, yeah, that tends to work most of the time. Sometimes I find if I give my kids too much notice, it goes backwards.

SPEAKER_03 25:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

And then they, you know, they kind of get in their head about it.

SPEAKER_03 25:59

God, yes.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

Or they start trying to negotiate with me. They're like, oh, well, if you're doing something you want to do, then I'm only okay with it if you let me do this. Oh, yeah, my kids are very strategic.

SPEAKER_03 26:10

I respect that so much, though. Like the argumentative aspect of my personality, who's very literal and legalistic, is like respect. Respect. Yeah, yeah, this negotiate this, let's do this. Um, yeah. I also have had that moment, especially with my oldest daughter, where it's like, hey, do you want to do a play date with these friends? And we're like, Yeah, we'll do it tomorrow. And then like the entire day is like, but what time is it at? How many hours is it? And you're just like, I don't know. Like, I can't make time go faster. And they aren't home until 3 p.m. Like, I can't, I can't like it's like then I'm like, well, we're going to the library. Cool. How long are we going to spend in the library? Like, however long it takes for you to stop asking me these questions.

SPEAKER_00 26:46

Yes. Yeah. I I live that all the time. Well, what do you mean? What time? What's it gonna be like? How who's gonna be there? How about how long are we gonna be there? I've started defaulting too. I understand that that's important information to you, but I don't have an answer for you right now. And you can continue to ask me, but I'm not gonna have an answer. It's not gonna change.

SPEAKER_03 27:04

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

It doesn't always work, but it doesn't.

SPEAKER_03 27:07

It doesn't. But also I have things I get excited about also where it's like, oh man, I can't wait to go to that show. Well, what's it gonna be like? I don't know. I won't know until I get there. It's like, cool. Well, you're not leaving the house until like 7 p.m. Okay, cool. What time is it now? 8 a.m. Okay, cool, man. Go distract, like, go distract yourself. So yeah, felt understood. Okay, Cameron, now to transition. I'm a very literal person whenever I do this. Some people have like smooth transitions and segues. I don't. Hey, Cameron, you were raised by a dad who got sober, got in recovery, and did all of that, and you wanted to share your story about that. Um, I'm not sure the best starting point for you, but hey, I know that's a story that you wanted to tell and you want to share that experience because I have had on a lot of dads who talk about getting sober, but I have never talked to a child who's like, hey, here's what it was like watching my dad get sober, get clean, go to meetings, and have that be normalized in your life. So I'm not sure how you want to start the story, but hey, Cameron, please tell and share your story.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

Hey, Devin. Yes, that's me.

SPEAKER_03 28:04

Hi.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

So yeah, I think when I was thinking about how to get into this, I the most interesting thing to me is to say, I think you you had framed it this way, like I'm a child of an addict. But, and that is true, but I never knew my dad as an addict. I've always known him my whole life as someone in recovery, which I think is really unique. I've just never known my dad without that as part of his identity. And that comes from the fact that my earliest memories, like pre-kindergarten, are of going to NA and AA meetings with him and just sort of being a part of that world and listening to the conversations and the goings-on in that space. And it took me until adulthood to realize that that's a really like unique experience most people don't have. That I came up understanding the language of recovery and addiction before I could even read. I knew what like it was to be using, to be clean, sober, all of that. It's a very empowering place to come from, I think, because I've never not known what addiction was. I've also never not known that recovery was possible.

SPEAKER_02 29:19

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

So that's kind of that's the summary.

SPEAKER_02 29:23

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:25

I mean, have you ever read like, um, have you read the book like Adult Children of Alcoholics? Have you read that book?

SPEAKER_00 29:32

I have not. No.

SPEAKER_03 29:33

Okay, I'll send you the link to it later. Yeah, it's just about like um, because it is a thing of like focusing more on um, or that there needs to be community for kids as well who have grown up in that environment and stuff. And like also massive kudos to your dad for that. Because I mean, if you're the oldest of five, like to um get help, uh, to figure out how to get sober, that is not freaking easy. So heck yeah to your dad for figuring that out.

SPEAKER_00 29:59

Yeah, he is really incredible. Um, and he's also not shy about talking about it, which I think um is one of the most impressive things to me. I have a really distinct memory. I was probably like 13. He so initially he came up through the NAA world and then he ended up finding stability in the church. Um, and that's been a really like durable life framework for him. And I have this really like crystallizing moment of seeing him stand up in front of the church and sort of give his testimony for the first time.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

I was it was early teen years. I actually had a friend with me who had come because we were, it was one of these like casual Saturday night churches, and she was kind of curious about it because she went to like a very orthodox church. And I remember watching him, and you know, from my perspective, just being really like impressed and honestly proud of him for standing up there and talking in front of this massive congregation of people and seeing all the different reactions around like the people we know who we're close with, and seeing like the sort of the joy and the love from them, and the people who didn't know us who maybe could relate to the story. You could see that on the faces. Um, and then the people who clearly were still in it and maybe needed to hear the story and kind of watching it land with them was incredible. Then my friend was sitting beside me, and I remember the look on her face. She was like stunned. She couldn't believe that like her friend's dad was just up here talking about like drinking and using drugs and partying. And I remember looking at her and thinking, like, that's a weird reaction. This isn't a big deal. Like, why you don't know people like this?

SPEAKER_03 31:34

Yeah. Yeah, like, oh, your dad doesn't do lines, didn't do lines of coke before you were born. Yeah, like that's not that normal thing.

SPEAKER_00 31:40

You've never heard a conversation like this before. Like, this is my entire life.

SPEAKER_03 31:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

So that was really that was probably the first time I realized that my experience was different from from other people's. But I am, I'm really proud of my dad. And even like recovery aside, I think he's probably the most incredible person I've ever known. But it is really impressive and it motivates me a lot to sort of like want to do good in the world and live authentically, honestly, and sort of do whatever I can to just contribute to the world in general. So that's been that's been a really big gift. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:13

Yeah. Uh my friends I know who are in recovery, yeah, they're, I mean, guy, I talked to a guy who is uh, it comes out like this there's actually, it's a guy who was in military service. Uh, he was like Air Force and he's retired now. And after quitting, he had like identity completely changed everything. He realized he had a drinking problem and he got sober. And like that was a whole journey. But he told me that um in therapy, his therapist was like, you just have to get more comfortable telling your story. Because once you start telling your story over and over again, then you have like not power over your story, but then like you have the ability to tell your story. And like whenever you can talk about the darkest moments of your life comfortably, they lose some power over you. So it's this really fascinating comfort level with um who you a part of your chapter, a part of what your existence has been. And it's it's a lot of bravery and a lot of courage.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

Yeah, it really is. Actually, I noticed kind of leading up to today, I've been talking to a couple of friends about planning to come to talk to you. And even though like I am not an addict, I've actually like never had any inclination to use any substances. Occasionally I'll drink.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:16

But that's like that's not part of my identity personally.

SPEAKER_02 33:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

And when I'm talking about it, I'm talking about my dad who's like a really successful, recovered person. Yeah. It's still really awkward to talk about. Like it's a scary conversation to enter into, like one-on-one. But I've also noticed that every person I brought it up to has their own story. Either it was a parent or friends or family, or even they themselves have experienced it. It's everywhere. And I think we just don't know because we're all so uncomfortable talking about it.

SPEAKER_03 33:48

Yep. Well, I mean, because it's like a, in my opinion, from what I can tell, is um you get an addiction of some sort because you needed a coping mechanism to life and what life has done to you. And then the coping mechanism becomes your entire life. And so, like, the reality is like we all have coping mechanisms. We just some of us haven't gone off the deep end yet. So, like, it's a very relatable story or reality of like, hey, one drink easily becomes two, two drinks easily becomes three, and you look up and you drink drank a six-pack after work every day for a week. And you're like, oh, that's what your mind is able to tell you is normal can be very fascinating in some realms of life.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

Yeah. Um, although I I will have to say, Devin, a six-pack, that's that's not alcoholic territory. No, I understand. I understand.

SPEAKER_03 34:31

Yeah, yeah. But like it's I I think what the the element of the of an alcoholic or someone uses story is that I do think that's how it graduates. It's either people I feel like go from I know people who are in recovery where they're like, I only knew how to do eight drinks. I didn't know how to do one. I only know how to do something at 10, like eight drinks and a bottle of jack. And I'm like, how are you still alive?

SPEAKER_00 34:54

That's so much. So yeah, it's stunning. And I think the other really insidious thing about it with alcohol in particular, although I think this is true for most substance addictions, is um you don't know it's a problem until it's already correct really a problem. It's not the kind of thing that you can typically like catch on your way down. You're like using casually and just sort of being a social person, living life, and then all of a sudden you are in it and you can't find a way out.

SPEAKER_03 35:22

Correct. Yeah. Yep. I remember one of my friends who's sober now. Um, we went and watched like a basketball game together during March Madness. And I think I had a beer and he had three cocktails on the time it took me to drink one beer. And I, and then like a year later, when it was like, by the way, I got sober. I was like, oh, okay, that makes sense. I just didn't know, like, I was like, oh, you're drinking a like my first thought was like, Oh, are you okay? Like, are you having a hard time or you're having a bad day or something like that? I was like, No, I was having a drink or two. And I'm like, okay, um, that's not my normal, but maybe it's your normal. And then later it was like, Yeah, I got sober. I was like, okay, I could see how that was a yeah, no, that makes sense. Okay, yeah, that's cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:56

Yeah. That's maybe even like the trickiest part about alcohol in particular is that it is so socially acceptable. Like people can use it right in front of you. And it might seem a little odd. You might think, like, oh, you're you're indulging a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 36:08

But it takes a lot before it's like evidently problematic. It's really easy to kind of get by.

SPEAKER_03 36:14

Yeah. It is. Well, because people aren't like, yeah, I wasn't there whenever like I got home to his wife, and his wife was like, Why have you drank so much? You're like, I'm not there for those moments. So I don't know, like the other side of the equation is like we I we've all gone out with friends who have taken the Uber home because I've drank too much. So then in my head, and now I'm like, so when you got home, how'd your wife treat you? Was your wife like, God, not again? Like, was it cool? Was it not? And like there's so many quiet moments because it's such a it's so easy to hide drinking that it's very easy to hide that you're doing it, but not hide it's very hard to hide like the after effects of like being drunk, being hung over the next day. So it's a lot of intimate moments that can come from addiction. Yeah. Okay, so one thing I want to make sure to ask you was how do you feel like your dad getting sober and being so comfortable with all this? How does that affect your belief like in humanity and people's ability to change? Because you've already kind of hinted at it a little bit that you believe in a lot. But like, how do you think that set you up to believe that, like, hey, you might be in darkness now, but there's actually light that you can come into?

SPEAKER_00 37:13

Yeah, I think I do have this like deeply ingrained sense of optimism and belief that nothing is ever like the end, right? That there's there's always a next step. There's always an an and. Cool.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

And a lot of that comes from seeing people live through their darkest moments and then seeing not just people recovering, but like the incredible lives that they're able to build and the joy that they're able to experience when they come out of it. It's almost in some places, seems like greater, like they have a greater capacity for joy and for sort of living a fulfilling life once they've experienced what it's like to not have that. So it is very encouraging. Now, it is also true that the addict, the alcoholic, has to choose it for themselves. So it's it's sort of a double-edged sword. Like I know anyone can come through anything, but I also know there's nothing I or anyone else can do to make that happen for someone.

SPEAKER_02 38:12

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 38:13

They have to go after it on their own. And that is a really difficult choice to make. So it's you know it's mostly optimistic. And then there's some pragmatism there, which also I think is helpful because you can look at a situation and say, like, this is really difficult for me. I wish I could change it, but I know I can't. So I'm going to relieve myself of that responsibility.

SPEAKER_03 38:33

Yep. I've I've had some friends when they get sober, they started with um doing it for their wife and kids. And at some point in time, that had to switch to getting sober for themselves. And I think it's like, uh, I forget if I remember talking to someone and we're like, whatever your motivation is to get sober, get sober. And like if you need to tweak the motivation, you you might need to tweak it later on to stay sober. But like, yeah, if uh you know what if thinking doing it for your wife and kids keeps you sober, keep doing it. Because getting sober is the goal. So, but I do think at some point in time you have to realize, like, hey, I actually deserve a better version of myself for myself. And but that's uh that's a lot. That takes a lot of work, that takes a lot of therapy, that takes a lot to get there.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

It does, yeah. You have to get to the place where you feel like you're worth it.

SPEAKER_03 39:17

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 39:18

Which is again a disgusting lie that addiction will tell you that you're not good enough. You don't deserve anything better.

SPEAKER_03 39:25

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 39:26

Uh I think that's part of what makes it so difficult to go after sobriety.

SPEAKER_03 39:30

It is. Yep. Yep. And I also have an inherent belief in myself or a belief in humanity of like, do you exist? Then like there's parts of you that are worthy of love. Like, and you are worth loving. And like, I what how do I, with the full knowledge that I cannot, I'm not responsible for it, but I want you to believe that you're worthy of love. How do I communicate to you this to you in a way in which like you maybe start to open that door instead of open that door?

SPEAKER_00 39:52

Yeah. Yeah. That's tricky.

SPEAKER_03 39:55

That's real tricky. It's listen, it's uh I'm glad there are people who do it for a living and are trained therapists and know more tools than I personally know.

SPEAKER_01 40:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 40:04

Try and think of final questions before wrapping up and you can actually get back to your day job. So, since I normally talk to like so many dads who are getting sober and everything, what like message or advice would you give to them as someone who has been the child in that scenario? Like, what advice would you give to them to be like, no, seriously, do this. This is so good for your family. Like, do you have any like thing in that realm that you can think of?

SPEAKER_00 40:24

Yeah, absolutely. I uh I'm kicking myself because I didn't look up the statistics I meant to, but I know that kids who grew up in homes with active addiction are like exponentially more likely to suffer from addiction themselves. It becomes a generational curse. But the incredible thing is if parents are able to get sober in front of their kids, and it's not, you don't even have to talk about it explicitly. I never had the drug talk with my dad. He just he just did it. Yeah. And I was there while he did it.

SPEAKER_02 40:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:55

Not only did he save his own life, but now he's like out in the world and he participates in ministry. He's participates in all kinds of recovery programs. That's great. He also protected me because, like I mentioned before, I've I've never used anything other than alcohol, even weed. And I know people will look at me sideways and either that they don't believe me or they think I'm approved.

SPEAKER_02 41:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:18

I just have no interest. I've seen what can come of it. I've seen the whole story play out, and I've just never, never cared to go down that road. So um he protected me. He also protected my kids because now I'm not an active addict in front of them. So that's several generations of protection that he was able to give us just by taking care of himself. So there's a lot of hope there, and there's a lot of good and a lot of power in doing the work.

SPEAKER_03 41:46

Yeah. That's awesome. And like, I don't know, I think like, while I'm not this type of man, I think a lot of men are very focused and worried about their legacy and what legacy they're leaving behind. And like, hey, if your legacy is like you corrected a um, I think whenever you become a parent, you always try to tweak and be a little bit different or improve things with how you were raised. So if one of those is not repeating patterns of addiction and substance abuse, that changes family lines. So like hell yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:15

Yeah. Yeah, it's huge.

SPEAKER_03 42:18

Yeah. It is, it is like literally like I love the moments in life where the answer is that simple. Like, hey, if you get sober, you're not just making your life better, your kids' life better. You are like making generational changes. And like, I think every parent I know is like, how do I make a generational change while I've got this responsibility? Get sober. See if you can see if you can do it. It'd be great.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

It's that easy.

SPEAKER_03 42:38

Yeah, yeah. Um very simple answer with a very complex plan to work it. Um, so Cameron, to wrap up the episode, how I wrap up is I ask every guest a series of five questions. So their icebreakery. We'll see what your answers are. First question is do you remember if you had any backup names for your daughters? Like, did you have anything you almost named them?

SPEAKER_00 43:00

So with Scarlett, actually, it's a funny story.

SPEAKER_03 43:03

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:04

Initially, her name was going to be Charlotte. But she was born a year or two after the royal like princess Charlotte was born.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

And I remember thinking like that's gonna be a really popular name. So we'll go with Scarlett instead because it's a little different. That ended up being one of the top five names for the year that she was born. So by trying to avoid one of the more popular names, I ended up sticking her. You know, she's she's never the only Scarlet in the room.

SPEAKER_03 43:33

My gosh. Never. I didn't realize well, you also, I feel like East Coast South is different than like middle of the South. So um, I knew a couple of Scarlets in like Nashville and Alabama, but not that many, like only one or two. I didn't know it was that popular.

SPEAKER_00 43:48

Everywhere we go. Everywhere. And her middle name is Marie, and that there's also a lot of Scarlet Marie's around here.

SPEAKER_03 43:54

Yeah. Marie is my uh one of my favorite dumb jokes to do is to make up middle names for people if I'm jokingly. Mad at them. And Marie is usually the go-to. Like Cameron Marie. And it's like, well, that is actually your middle name.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

Well, that is actually, yeah, my middle name. That's like 50% of the women in my family. Just the same name.

SPEAKER_03 44:10

Throw out throughout a Marie. You might be right.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:13

What about what about for your second kid? Do you remember, or for your other kid? Do you remember any backup names for her?

SPEAKER_00 44:19

I wouldn't say it's a backup name on the like on the journey to get to Lily. And because we're in the South, middle names are a big deal. So her name is Lily Lily Page. And before Lily, I was thinking about Brooke. And then I said it out loud one day.

SPEAKER_02 44:35

Lily Brooke?

SPEAKER_00 44:36

Brooke Page. Brooke Page. Sounds a lot like Book Page. So I opted out of that. And then it turns out my postpartum nurse, that was her name. Wait, Lily? Yeah, my middle name's Paige too. My name's Brooke. And I was like, What?

SPEAKER_03 44:50

No. That's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_00 44:54

Yeah, that was really that was Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:56

That's fun. I love like we we did for our first two kids, we did uh flower or plants, then a month, and then our last name. And for our middle child, we almost did April, but then her initials would have been man. And we're like, we can't, we can't do that to her. We can't make her initials man. She'd probably giggle about it and have fun about it, but then there'd be the one day where she's like, I hate that you did this to me. So yeah. We did not. We did not. Strong choice. Strong choice.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

Still appreciate that.

SPEAKER_03 45:22

Next question. Do you have a favorite TV or movie mom?

SPEAKER_02 45:27

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_03 45:29

What about a book or something? What about like literary characters? Just so you know, character of a mom. Or that comes to mind first.

SPEAKER_00 45:39

I have so I have one, but I'm hesitant to say it out loud because the franchise gets so much political hate. But you can choose to edit this out or not. I did grow up. Um Harry Potter books were really big in my family growing up. Um I actually have covered in symbolic tattoos. Yeah. Um, that's actually a tribute to my stepdad because he used to read them to us all the time.

SPEAKER_03 46:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:08

But Molly Weasley.

SPEAKER_03 46:10

Molly Weasley's a great answer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:12

Yeah. She's like the archetype, right? For the mom everyone wants to be.

SPEAKER_03 46:16

Yeah. Yeah. Now, we'll I'll trust me, I'll keep it in. Molly Weasley has been an answer. It is also Bill Cosby's been an answer where someone's like, I can't say Bill Cosby, but like for a TV dad, Bill Cosby was a great dad until we realized he wasn't a great person. So it's we're separating art from person in this episode.

SPEAKER_00 46:35

I love it on camera. I love it. Excellent.

SPEAKER_03 46:37

Um, yeah, Molly Weasley has like all these characteristics of like being warm. She's like everyone's mom. She's like willing to be a mom to like everyone, and like that's cool.

SPEAKER_00 46:46

Yeah, she's also like delightfully irreverent, which I think you have to be, right? Like you have to have a sense of humor and you have to be a little bit stubborn as a mom. So I do. I I love that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:55

Nice. Okay. Next question. What's your replacement curse word? What do you say instead of the curse word? Or do you just curse? Which, so you know, is the most common answer.

SPEAKER_00 47:05

I do not curse. Um, although my kids hear it all the time, and we have like a whole conversation about that. But um, I often go with fluff.

SPEAKER_03 47:16

Oh, fluffin. Yeah, fluffin's good.

SPEAKER_00 47:19

Yeah. Or or I'll just say F. I'll just say about the F.

SPEAKER_03 47:22

What day F.

SPEAKER_00 47:23

Uh yeah. With the really thick Virginia accent.

SPEAKER_03 47:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:28

Um, yeah, that's my go-to.

SPEAKER_03 47:30

Okay. Okay. I think fluffin is fun also to make, oh, this fluffin' sucks. And they're like, what'd you say? And you're like, talking about marshmallows. What do you think I'm talking about? Just some fluffin here. Um, what next question? What is like your favorite activity or toy to do with your daughters?

SPEAKER_00 47:50

Hmm, we have a lot. Um, I think though my like my favorite thing with both of them since they were little is actually playing in the rain. Yeah. They love it. They love a puddle. Um, we usually go out in like full rain gear and then end up losing all of it by the time you know we're done. They're like drenched from head to toe. They love getting muddy. And I don't actually care for getting rained on, but I love watching them play in it so much that like it's I will I'll drop everything to go outside and play in the rain with them.

SPEAKER_03 48:21

Okay. Okay. That one, I'm definitely the parent who's like, no, now your pants are wet. Now they're like it's raining here today, and my son was like jumping in the puddles. I'm like, you can do that. I just don't have I didn't put backup pants in your backpack because I didn't think you were gonna jump in a puddle. So that as long as I have like the backup stuff for the wetness and the mess, then I'm good. But whenever I can just play out like the they're gonna cry and scream because their pants are wet, then I'm like, well, I don't have a solution for this. And now I feel like a bad parent. So just don't jump in the rain.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

Yeah, I mean it's contextually dependent. Like I we don't jump in puddles on the way into school. On the way home, fine. Okay, yeah, but not on the way into school.

SPEAKER_03 49:00

That's good. I'm just like, you've got to have some because it is the moment where the four-year-old jumps in the puddle and then like, why is everything wet? And you're like, jump to you've jumped in a fluffing puddle. Yeah. And then you're and then you're problem solved, and then you're driving home, grabbing back, and you're like, just don't jump in the puddle. And you're like, you're killing whimsy, Devin, stop it.

SPEAKER_00 49:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:22

Okay. And then last question for you. Um what is your least favorite kid show or movie?

SPEAKER_00 49:32

Um, everyone says Caillou, so I'm not gonna play.

SPEAKER_03 49:35

Yeah, don't say Caillou. Go, different one.

SPEAKER_00 49:37

Um, but I'm gonna I'm gonna cheat a little bit and I'm gonna say all of these YouTube kid shows that are actually like parents filming their kids pretending to play. Because one, my kids are obsessed with it. And I'm like, why are you watching someone play when you could actually be playing? Two, I think it's gross when people um take advantage of their kids that way. Like it's really gross. And three, it's also just grating to watch. I I don't understand.

SPEAKER_03 50:08

Bad content.

SPEAKER_00 50:09

Yeah, it's awful. Come on.

SPEAKER_03 50:12

Yeah, yeah. Uh so as someone who does a parenting podcast, I know you've got elder emo, mom, and your thing. Like, I also rarely use my kids in any of my videos or any of my content because it does it creates like a dissonance inside myself. I'm like, this feels wrong to do. Like, I feel like you rarely post anything with your kids in it, but clearly being a parent is part of like who you are. So I'm with you. Just like uh every once in a while, but like for the most part, no, they I don't I don't like doing that to them.

SPEAKER_00 50:38

Yeah, no, I do have a hard rule against putting their faces on the public internet. I will, I'll share with like, you know, close friends um sometimes fun moments. But yeah, I I can't get behind putting my kids on the internet, particularly for personal gain.

SPEAKER_02 50:53

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 50:54

Um, but it's just you, we know so much now about what happens when you put yourself on the internet. And um I just I'm good. I can't get my head head around like being okay with that.

SPEAKER_03 51:06

You know, I can't I can't either. Um clearly some people can. And I do my best just to not judge them as I am very much judging them at the same time. Yeah, pretty much.

SPEAKER_00 51:17

Some people deserve to be judged.

SPEAKER_03 51:19

That's right. Um, and then last thing for you is just like moment for self-promotion. If we want to follow like uh your Instagram, TikTok, anything like that. Do some self-promotion.

SPEAKER_00 51:29

Oh man, yeah. I'm your elder emo mom on TikTok and Instagram, but there's a period in between each word um because I'm difficult. Yeah, and I love punctuation. Um yeah, and I love to talk about mostly new music, a little bit of old music. Uh, and I'm gonna be going to Warp Tour DC soon.

SPEAKER_02 51:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:51

We'll be covering that on assignment for NAPNET, which is incredible. So strongly encourage people to follow along for that. I think it's gonna be a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_03 52:00

Yeah, it will be. Hey, Cameron, thank you for taking the time to do an episode with me. I really appreciate it. And um, I'll talk to you next time.

SPEAKER_00 52:08

Sounds good. Thanks, Devin.

SPEAKER_03 52:09

Perfect. Thanks, Cameron. See ya.

SPEAKER_00 52:10

Bye.

SPEAKER_03 52:11

Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the episode. Make sure to follow us on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube at the Imperfect Dads Podcast. And make sure to give us five stars for everybody to listen to us. Music, editing, and production is all done by me. Make sure to tune in on Mondays and most Thursdays for episodes. This podcast is part of the Never at Phase Network. Make sure to go to Never at FaZe Network.com to learn more about it.