The Leader Learner Podcast

S02E02 The Let's Talk About Shame Baby Episode

September 26, 2022 Theresa Destrebecq & Vincent Musolino Season 2 Episode 2
The Leader Learner Podcast
S02E02 The Let's Talk About Shame Baby Episode
Show Notes

Check-In Question:

  • What website do you visit multiple times a day?

Big Ideas:

  • What gets in the way of great leadership?
    • Imposing my perspective/values on other people
    • Imposter syndrome leading to self-doubt
    • When we don't address our own emotions
  • Shame getting in the way of leadership
  • The less we talk about emotions the more we feel
  • Not talking about shame at work -- frustrations, fear
  • Difference between shame (I am a failure) versus guilt (I failed at this project)
  • Is shame a cohesion mechanism?
  • Fault and mistake -- how are they different?
  • Guilt can have a powerful impact when we see the gap between our values/intentions between our behavior
  • One incidence can lead to either guilt or shame
  • What do we say to ourselves when we make a mistake?
  • How much are leaders using shame as a tool in leadership? Weaponizing shame
  • The opposite of shame - empathy and compassion, vulnerability
  • Fear of being a bad leader, leads us to not be vulnerable
  • Shame drives so much of our behavior in the background
  • "Should" is a sign that there is something wrong with the relationship
  • Shame Shields -- move away, move toward, move against (Freeze, fight, flee)
  • Offloading shame on others - trying to hurt other people back
  • 4 Steps to Working Through Shame
    1. Understand the shame triggers
    2. Reality check the messages around perfection
    3. Reach out to share our stories with people we trust
    4. Use the word shame - use the words gives you power
  • Giving names to our shame shields/defense mechanisms or using symbols or personalities to states of mind, gives us control to them
  • Being a better leader starts with awareness


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