The Leader Learner Podcast

S02E12 The Upstream And Downstream Episode

February 20, 2023 Theresa Destrebecq & Vincent Musolino Season 2 Episode 12
The Leader Learner Podcast
S02E12 The Upstream And Downstream Episode
Show Notes


  • Describe a time when you helped a stranger.

Big Ideas:

  • sense of ownership
  • autonomy as a cop-out for organizational responsibility
  • not about changing the fish, but about changing the environment
  • When we invite people into our organizations, are we hoping they will be 'unbreakable'?
  • the challenge of changing the whole organization
  • teaching fish to swim in the toxic water, or changing the water
  • Is the entire system toxic? 
  • lower toxicity with caring and listening
  • leadership, history impact how toxic the environment
  • treating the symptom rather than the cause
  • duty to support the individuals and the leadership
  • Is resilience a lever like leadership, or like psychological safety? Is it a result?
  • Can we directly impact resilience?
  • Resilience as it relates to personal struggle
  • Asking "Why me?" versus "What now?" 
  • The questions we ask determine how resilient we are
  • Resilience as a learned experience, not a theoretical one
  • Relationship supportive of our resilience
  • Causality is difficult to determine
  • What? So what? Now what? 
  • Time spent looking for why - does it matter?
  • Does the category help find the solution? 
  • Do you need to know what is in the ocean to clean it?
  • How resources impact how/where we spent our time?
  • Where are the resources most impactful?
  • If you can clean it, why worry about dirtying it in the first place?
  • Apply resources where the leverage is highest
  • System and people are complex
  • Yes for the system, AND yes for the individual
  • How often do we rely on the system to take care of us? 
  • Moving out of the either/or choices 
  • Binary bias - when there is no middle ground, we have to choose one or the other
  • multiple layers of action - I, We, They
  • not looking for reasons, but looking for meaning and actions
  • when point 1 finger outward, there are 3 fingers pointing backward


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