Episode #9 - "Willing To Support"

This week, Angela is joined by Christopher Scott, the Co-Founder and Executive Director of Sun Scholars, and Victor Sims, the Founder/CEO of Guiding Hope and a Management Consultant at Public Knowledge.

Welcome to INNOVATE! In Season One, host Angela Tucker highlights 20 REFCA Champions who are inspiring a Re-Envisioning of Foster Care in America. These visionary leaders are using their wisdom, expertise and lived experiences in foster care to transform the foster care narrative from Alaska to New York, California to Missouri, the Pacific Northwest to New England.

To learn more about INNOVATE!, the Re-Envisioning Foster Care in America (REFCA) Movement and the Treehouse Foundation, go to treehousefoundation.net. As always, be sure to like and subscribe to the podcast to be notified when new episodes are released.

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ABOUT THE HOST:

INNOVATE! host, Angela Tucker, is a REFCA Champion and a nationally recognized mentor, entrepreneur, educator and consultant. Angela is a transracial adoptee who, having been adopted from foster care by a white family, grew up in a city that was demographically just 1% Black.

She is the Founder of The Adopted Life, a child-welfare consulting business where she strives to center adoptee stories and bring clarity and truth to narratives about race, class and identity.

Angela has produced The Adopted Life 3-part web series where she interviews transracially adopted youth. She is the host of The Adoptee Next Door podcast 

where she amplifies adult adoptee voices to showcase the wide spectrum of experiences. Her own adoption experience searching for and reuniting with her birth family is the subject of the documentary CLOSURE. 

Angela's first book is scheduled for publication in spring 2023 (Beacon Press).

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Angela Tucker - Host & Producer

Nicholas Ramsey - Editor & Producer

Judy Cockerton - Executive Producer

Distributed by smallhand.us

Transcript

Angela: 0:01

From the Treehouse Foundation, welcome to"Innovate", a podcast that features the voices of the Re-Envisioning Foster Care in America(REFCA) champions, folks who are working diligently to change the foster care narrative across the country.

Victor: 0:18

Under COVID 19, there have been less children removed, and that that's been something like every state is like surprised by and I'm sitting there. I'm like, well, because like children may not have never, ever needed to be removed. But what we also know is like under COVID there have been more supports. We've been sending out stimulus checks, organizations that have typically not have offered free therapy or free counseling offering. We have all these hypothesis and COVID 19, in my opinion, has taught us that like, you know what families can handle it. We just gotta be willing to support them

Chris: 0:48

Somehow, you know, through a lot of self injury. Like there's no, there's no romanticization of this. There was a lot of, a lot of pain to get to where I am today. And I wanna remove that from others. I would love for a world where we look at the child welfare system and we don't think of like, oh, only 67% graduate high school. It's like, no, these are some people that have been dealt, not the best hand, but they still played the game and they won and we helped them cuz we coached them how to play cards. I believe we can change those statistics because policy drives the current numbers that we see today and policy can change. And then we can also just, you know, improve the system and make sure that we have people like, you know, honestly like ourselves with lived experience with, with, on the heart, with skills like, you know, and allies with heart and skills

Angela: 1:32

In 2010, the Treehouse Foundation launched a movement to Re-Envision Foster Care in America. And in addition to hosting eight national conferences, Treehouse also honors foster care alumni who are inspiring a"re-envisioning of foster care" through awarding them with this honor for their outstanding leadership and innovation. My name is Angela Tucker. I am a transracial adoptee, and I spend a lot of my time mentoring youth adopted from foster care. I am honored to be named a REFCA champion, and I am your host. Today, I will be speaking to Christopher Scott and Victor Sims. Christopher is the executive director of Sun Scholars, a nonprofit in Connecticut that is committed to improving educational equity through college graduation rates and career outcomes for those who have been adopted or experienced foster care. And he also spent eight years in foster care before being adopted. Victor was the recipient of the 2020 Casey Excellence in Children's award and was named a Reunification Hero in 2019 by the American bar association. He spent 11 years in Florida's foster care system. And I know personally from talking to him that his goal is to become the secretary of the department of children and families in Florida. Welcome to the show.

Victor: 2:57

Thank you.

Chris: 2:57

Thank you.

Angela: 2:58

Chris, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and specifically regarding foster care?

Chris: 3:04

I entered foster care around the age of eight or nine. DCF was involved in my life. Uh, plenty of years prior to that, my biological mom who, um, has since passed away, she lost her battle to drugs and you know, she overdosed, she, uh, was really struggling with housing. You know, we really, we were homeless. We were sleeping in cars. So my dad was deported, um, to Iran when I was about a year old and conditions of that are a little crazy. And so she, uh, she called the police, you know, they were fighting and said, Hey, my boyfriend is making bombs. He's Iranian. This is right in the crises of, you know, escalation between our country and theirs. And so of course there was no bombs found, but they realized he was undocumented, and so they deported him. Come to find out, he was actually a refugee here. So he was on asylum and his asylum had expired to me. I loved my mom. I had a really positive relationship with her. I can also realize that most of the people surrounding her, um, probably did not perceive her in that sense. Uh, she didn't make good decisions to the people around her.

Angela: 4:06

Wow. There is a lot to unpack there, Chris. I'm, I'm really curious about how your upbringing has impacted the work that you're doing now, but Victor, I think I wanna shift to you. Can you share a little bit about your life in foster care?

Victor: 4:21

I went into foster care in 1996. My job was born in 1995. Um, so November of 1995, I was born by March of 1996. The department of children and families had removed me from, um, my mom and my dad and, um, my biological dad, um, attempted to kill my biological mother. There was domestic violence that was going on, um, prior to my birth. So I have two older siblings. So the apartment was already familiar with my family prior to be being born. The difference was how egregious the domestic abuse was to where my mom, um, became a resident of, uh, a hospital. And my dad, uh, became a resident of the prison. Uh, I often struggled with, you know, what actually went on, obviously one before, like actually being told, like what happened? You create your own reason, uh, for how you ended up in the system of care. And a funny story is when I was in kindergarten, actually, like I actually didn't realize like everybody wasn't on, um, this journey to find them forever family. Um, so I was talking to the kindergarten class. It was the third school I went to and I remember it so well. Um, and obviously the teacher asked, you know, why, why I changed schools, all this kind of great stuff, where it came from. And so I was like, well, you know that wasn't my forever family. And you know, we're all just waiting to find that forever family, um, you know, anytime we can all be picked up because you know, this, this may not be our forever family. I go back, I looked at that story and you know, all the way until like I was in kindergarten, like I thought it was normal, uh, for me to change families and all of that. So, um, until I found out that that wasn't the traditional experience, that's all I knew. And so I could still see the kids crying and like I'm telling them they're gonna, like, they can be picked up by a social worker any day. Um, and they're not gonna go back home. Like they may not even get to go home today. I was telling my truth and I thought my truth was the world's truth.

Angela: 6:26

I know that for you and for me too, people kind of congratulate us for being adopted. Uh, how do you feel when people say that to you?

Victor: 6:41

The first thing people will say is like, congratulations. And I sit there and I'm like, oh, I, I don't know, because like it was 12 years. Um, and that wasn't, that wasn't oh yes. What a great kid or it wasn't oh, how amazing it was now, I'm at a store and I'm picking out a child and this child doesn't fit my like criteria. Um, and I mean, I was looking at like, even like, there was just no better words to say, but the advertisement, not me, like, and like looking at how they like explained me and I'm like, oh my gosh, like, it's like, I dunno how to say it. Like without saying it. But like, to me, I was like, this is like human trafficking, me.

Angela: 7:26

I kinda wanna back up a little just for folks who don't know, you know, about what you're alluding to, which is that in that all of us in foster care have writeups on us essentially. And some kids now have videos that we are kind of performing and trying to get a family. So in the writeups it might say, you know, Victor loves whatever it is,

Victor: 7:52

Basketball

Angela: 7:53

<laugh>. Yeah. Victor loves basketball. He would do great with a sibling or

Victor: 7:57

Well, and really what they should have just put with, like, Victor will adapt to whatever family, like he goes into, because like, that's literally like what was happening. Like families weren't adapting to me. I was adapting to them and why when I didn't meet their, um, expectations fast enough, um, the answer was to move. Um, and next child, or like, like the way I see it, like, and I can't like explain any better than like, as if like, you know what, like I've got buyers remorse and I want to return this before. Like I no longer can get a refund. Um<laugh> and there, like, like the, the amount of circumstances that I had to go through to get to adoption. Like, I mean, I even like my girlfriend, I explained to her was like, you know, like my adoption didn't while it is congratulatory, I was like, and while it is an amazing day, like I got adopted by probably the greatest family I could have gotten adopted by, um, the process to get there is not forgotten. So like my adoption isn't like, like it, it doesn't symbolize like my, my trauma left. It just like, said like the system can no longer do trauma to me. And that's what I thought. Um, however, like the system, like in my pain continually like continue to do trauma. Um, you know, like not having adequate post adoption services, like impacted the way I loved my family. It impacted the way I interacted with other people.

Angela: 9:22

So yeah, you've described before, like you had a case worker for all those years in foster care and then my whole life, your whole life, and then you get adopted and you don't have that anymore.

Victor: 9:35

Like, who am I? I tell people's like, when I think of like my adoption day, the first thing that comes to mind, isn't like, oh, like my parents adopted me it's oh my gosh. I went through hell to get where I got. Um, I mean, people biting my toenails, um, like racism in a home. Like, I mean, I was like, I played basketball and hated basketball, but the funny thing is like, that is like, that is the thing people said, like I like doing, I was like, no, I didn't like doing that. Like I had a pre-adoptive father who wanted to adopt a son that played basketball because he was the coach. So I learned to deal with basketball, you know? Like, and so I was like, just like, thinking about all this stuff. And I'm like, like who, who is actually Victor without like everybody else, like trying to find him like, who is like, what does Victor actually like doing? Like when people ask me like what my favorite color is, I'm like, I actually don't know because like my favorite color happened to be like around whatever. Like my, my free adoptive parent wanted it to be like, I was like, oh, if yours is green, then like mine is green. Like if yours is purple, but mine is purple.

Angela: 10:41

The word resiliency is, is really a big one that I wanna actually talk about for both of you. I, I think I'm still trying to determine my beliefs around that word specifically with regards to folks like us, who've gone through different traumas, but I'm thinking about you, Chris, getting your masters at Harvard. When we know that about 67% of foster youth graduate high school, and 3% of those go on to undergrad. Does this mean that you have bucked the trend? Are you more resilient than others? How does it feel? I'm sure people say you beat the odds. All of that feels a little cringy and irksome, but at the same time here you are

Chris: 11:28

The same notion of like, wow, you must be like, um, you beat the odds or like, you must be really smart or like, um, it's the same notion of like, like, oh, I would've adopted you. If I had known you it's like that same kind of patronization, it deflects a greater issue. And it is that this, um, I do not perceive myself as, um, an exception. I perceive myself as someone who, Hey, I had to very self or injurious climb and I would like to remove the conditions of self injury. Um, I believe that anybody can pursue the best life that they choose for themselves. For me, that was perceiving, uh, or pursuing higher education. It was pursuing nonprofit work for others. It means pursuing becoming a welder or an electrician. And there's barriers between, uh, the beginning of their journey and where they would like to be. And to me, I wanna remove those barriers. And so that's where I, I really funneled my experience into my work, honestly, because to me, sun is all about, Hey, let's improve college graduation, let's improve trade school graduation. The way we get there with my organization is not, Hey, let's sit down and crack open a textbook and study it's. We are going to look at this as a Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Where are you struggling right now? And how can we remove that? Because if you're not sleeping somewhere safe, you're probably not gonna pass your classes somehow, you know, through a lot of self injury, like there's no, there's no romanticization of this. There was a lot of, a lot of pain to get to where I am today. Um, and I wanna remove that from others. And so, you know, I am not gifted. Um, I just, you know, really, really set my mind to, um, having a good education. And that was something that for me, made sense of my journey. It's not the same for everybody else, but with my students, with my youth, I wanna look at this and say, Hey, if you wanna be a welder, let's make sure you have food stamps. Let's make sure you, um, can feed yourself, include yourself and have an apartment that is safe and secure. Let's make sure that you can double down on your studies and then boom, you're gonna have that your version of your own best life as well. And, uh, probably make a lot more as a welder than you will as a nonprofit director, to be honest, uh, which is OK. Uh, that's, that's part of the game, right. You know, we entered the nonprofit world. We, we live comfortably, but, uh, it's always funny to kind of joke around about it. Um, but no, it's, it's, um, it's definitely one of those things. I, I do not perceive myself, um, as an exception, maybe as currently stands, you know, we are have exceptions to the current statistics. I believe we can change those statistics because policy drives the current numbers that we see today and policy can change. And then we can also just, you know, improve the system and make sure that we have people like, you know, honestly like ourselves with lived experience with, with, um, heart, with skills like, you know, and allies with heart and skills fighting at the front lines at the policy lines and whatnot to, to make sure that, you know, Hey, uh, I would love for a world where we look at the child welfare system and we don't think of like, oh, only 67% graduate high school. It's like, no, these are some people that have been dealt, not the best hand, but they still played the game and they won and we helped them cuz we coached them how to play cards,

Angela: 14:33

Thinking about actually the family first act and how a big piece of that legislation is about. Let's try to prevent children from entering care. I'm curious, Chris, if you have any experience with that, I think you may have served on this governance committee, but what is it looking like and are the services being utilized like in Connecticut?

Chris: 14:55

So what Connecticut did was very unique. What they did was we established five working groups that tackled different factions of the bill, such as how are we gonna define a family first candidate? We're gonna talk about, um, kinship care. We're gonna talk about, um, the budget, how we're gonna pay for this, that type of stuff. And then over what oversees the five working groups is a governor's council. Um, and then actually adjacent to all this is the state advisory council I'm appointed by the governor to be on the state advisory council. And then I served on the kinship, um, transit guardianship, uh, working group. And I also was on the governor's council that oversaw the five working groups or at least evaluated the work that the five working groups did. So I really got be a part of a little bit of everything, which is really special and, and, you know, family first is a huge step in the right direction when we get adopted. Right? All so many supports dissolve our society probably probably justified, right. Um, adoption has been a huge goal. Trans guardianship kinship care has been a huge goal, but we do zero tracking on the outcomes of either of those. We have no idea what the statistics of adopted youth are compared to their peers and their, and all, we don't know how many adoption stayed together. We don't know the graduation rates of college. We don't know the income rates. We know all of the above for the extended care population, but even though we've put all this money and all of this policy saying, Hey, let's, let's fight for adoption. Um, which I am here for, right? Like I, I am here for adoption, but we haven't tracked it.

Angela: 16:31

It is so maddening to realize that we just don't track that really important information, but going back a little bit, can you tell us a little bit more about that act

Chris: 16:43

FFP S a really, um, in a sense builds upon and on does a lot of what adoption say families did. However, um, and I think what it, what it really does, what I've noticed at the, at the biggest level, in my involvement here in Connecticut, it has led to more than just a policy shift of saying, yeah, let's, let's focus on reunification. Let's focus on family preservation. And then, you know, if, if, uh, all laws fails, let's go to kinship first before foster care. Um, I think that's a good path to do. We are really starting to stay. Alright, let's have a child centered, uh, uh, foster care, um, agencies let's have individuals with lived experience. We lift it up. I, I really feel that sun, you know, we, we have state funding. That's where, where over 90% of our funds come in is through state contracts. And my whole agency is, um, we're all staffed by foster youth. So all of my employees are all lived experience. It's about to say like, Hey, we're here as a community for one 11, we're gonna lift each other up. And, and you're our future colleagues. And, and we know your mountains cuz we've been through some of those mountains. I think one of the reasons we were funded is, is part of the culture that F FP S a is brought to the let's lift alum, lift alumni voices. Let's, um, make sure that we have representation of diversity of experience. Um, and that's so important. Um, race, ethnicity, gender identity, whatnot, you know, we're finally at like, we're, I think child welfare is reaching this precipice of saying we need representation, Places where I'm feeling first can go a little further. And, um, culture just can go a little further. I think we can go further upstream in prevention services, you know, before we ever identify somebody as a candidate for F of PSA, there's probably some work that we can do. Um, with those families that, you know, are struggling with opioids or drugs or, um, individuals, you know, if they're homeless, you know, there's, there's probably work. We can do prior to them becoming entered, even, even, um, peripherally in, in a child welfare agency. One of my biggest places that I'm positioning myself, at least as a, as a voice is we really, really need to expand post permanency supports, um, kinship care, living with relatives, I think is the right step, but it's kind of like this, right? Um, first, any day of the week, if I can do, if I can plus a redo button, I would've loved to have been actually found by my uncle and raised by them, everything that I lived through, I wouldn't have had to live through. I would've been loved my whole life. Um, and that's something I, I have not experienced. I think of kinship as this, right? It is a well paved road. It is a really good highway. Imagine like we've seen bad highways imagine a good highway, right? It's it's fast. Traffic is taken care of. Um, you know, you're not really getting backed up. It's it's mitigates itself for accidents. The lanes are, are far apart, but you wouldn't have somebody ride a bicycle on a good highway, uh, right. You want them in a good car and on a good highway, I think sometimes kinship families, you know, once you are adopted through kinship care, you have a trans of guardianship, almost all post permanency supports are dissolved unless they have a kinship at 16, they receive no Chaffy funding for college, unless they, um, you know, sometimes the family retains a stipend, but you don't actually get anything for the youth in Connecticut. There's no post-college funding for youth who are kinship adopted. That's where we wanna pivot ourselves for and individuals who have kinship. They have trauma, the trauma does not dissolve just because of the way you exit foster care. And I think that's something that we really need to focus on as a society, as policy makers. And that is, that is my biggest criticism of our, our system today. Cause a lot of families that are transfer of guardianship and kinship, you know, um, it's a really scary moment, but it's like, imagine you're a grandma or a grandpa. Right? All of a sudden, you know, you, um, you know, you're ready to maybe you've, you've lived lower middle income, uh, right. You know, you've had your struggles, uh, there's generational poverty, right? There's generational trauma. You're about to settle down and all of a sudden, you're, you're 50 years old and you have two kids in your house. Again, you didn't financially plan for that. You weren't ready for kids at that life stage. Um, you're ready to take it on. Cause you got a big heart. We need to make sure that those people with the hearts have the services to make sure that their hearts don't give out. And that is where we really need to focus on child welfares,

Angela: 21:01

Family, integrity, and justice work in Arkansas and New Jersey. What is that? What are you doing there?

Victor: 21:08

It focuses on not like changing the system or improving the system, but actually replacing the current child welfare system. As we know it today, it looks at racial injustices as an African American human being, um, like myself. Like I think about, you know, like I've read through a lot of my file. And as a, as a child, I probably would've argued a little bit more as a teenager, I've argued a little more as a social worker. I would've said like, there was no reason why I could not have been placed with my grandmother. Like no reason outside of like, it's not a white picket fence with two cars outside of like all our own like own prejudices. Like I could have found permanency maybe 10 years prior to when I found it. Um, and so like looking at that, I tell people like all these cool names that everybody's coming up with now in the season of change is all great and dandy. I said, but what I'm asking for is true restorative justice, like I'm asking one, like, let's apologize for what we've done. We have broken up families for, for decades. Um, based off the idea that like your family doesn't look like mine, um, we have continued to, to, to remove children. Um, and under the skies of like, you know what, like we can't fund it. Um, if you're not removed, um, like, like we have continually like done this. And like, even though we found a better way, we're not saying like, oh, I'm sorry that we've done it wrong. We're saying, well, this is how we're doing it going forward. And those are two different things to me. Like I look at like Arkansas and New Jersey with powerful families, powerful communities, like New Jersey. Like if you look at like what they're doing right now, like commissioner buyer has been, um, unapologetically, um, redesigning the system. Like I'm not even saying like improving it, like completely redesigning it. Like shifting funds to an organization called powerful families, powerful communities saying like, you know what, maybe this like responsibility, you know what? Like our families are already powerful. Our communities are already powerful. Why do they need the governor's office to have a department of children and families, commissioner to say like, how do you get help? Like maybe it's the fact that, you know, we're not approachable now because like, all people think is like, I'm like, I call the cops because this man is beating me up. My child may get removed from me. And instead like maybe I need to call powerful families, powerful communities. And they'll like, connect me with a resource. That'll actually like, say like, my family is powerful. I have a coworker named Lamar Smith from day one. He's always said that family is sacred. It may not be your biological family. It may be like your, your, your family that you've had to create. It may be the family that you're adopted into. It may be the family that you just still have never had. And it just may be the ones that you're working with family integrity. Like we've gotta honor, you know, we've gotta like, believe that when we're not looking that the family looks like it is actually function like under COVID 19. Like, we let's be real. Like we've we, every state has talked about the reduction of children being removed. Those, those things has actually like stated that more, more, um, deaths have happened. Nobody has stated that like, um, more abuse has happened. They've said like there have been less children removed and that that's been something like every state is like surprised about. And I'm sitting there. I'm like, well, because like children may not have never, ever needed to be removed. But what we also know is like under COVID there have been more supports, you know, we've been sending out stimulus checks, organizations that have typically not have offered free therapy or free counseling are offering it. Like, I mean, we're seeing like two community support saying like, you know, forget the money right now. Like we've got a community that just needs to step up and offer services. So like we have all these hypothesis and COVID 19 has taught us that like, you know what, families can handle it. We just gotta be willing to support them. Is it me saying like, you know what, like, don't worry about your daycare costs because you know what, like the government will send me a check to cover your child now. Like, like how amazing is that? We talk about all this data. Well, what are we going to do about it? All the people who've received this amazing prestigious award it's because like, we've asked that question. What are we going to do about it?

Angela: 25:21

I wanna wrap every, uh, podcast episode with the RFCA champions with them finishing this sentence. The future of foster care is

Chris: 25:32

The future of foster care is hopeful. I say it's hopeful because I wouldn't have always said it was hopeful. Um, I think that when I was younger, I did not see a hopeful life or, uh, you know, I was always optimistic, but I was very bogged on by the system today. I feel that our voices as alumni and as I I'll I'll use the word change agents is more heard than it's ever been before. It can be more heard, right? So I'm not definitely don't wanna mitigate the deaf ears that still exist, but it is more heard than it has ever been before. And I feel like our voices are stories and our suggestions on change are actually being acknowledged, um, by, um, people who, um, you know, currently hold the seats of power and maybe one day we'll hold those seats of power. Uh, but as, as the people who are knocking on the doors, hoping that others will open them. I do feel that more doors are being open today than they have in the past. We want all doors open and maybe one to even have us be the ones opening them. Hope is a really important, important element of my life. Because when you see, you know, one, when you think about the lives we've lived, but then as people who are on the front lines and you hear these stories or every day, you know, we're working with students, you know, or youth in the system, uh, as a present, you know, it's, it's very easy to, to crush under the weight. And instead I say, okay, there's hope and there's change. And I know that, you know, we can, uh, build a consistently better future.

Victor: 27:12

The future of foster care will switch from being informed to being engaged. I have done a lot of thinking since the creation of guiding hope in regards to like, what are we really doing? That's not working. You know, we talk about trauma, inform care and trauma informed this and all this kind of great stuff we know about the data and we're informed about the data, but we haven't shifted the way we engage in a drastic way. Family first prevention can be all amazing, but it, it, it won't sit a safe, long term place. If we don't change the way we're engaging, whether it's the way we're engaging with families, whether it's the way we're engaging with youth, whether it's the way we're engaging with providers. That's what we'll be able to say. Like we've created something better is when we've said we've also engaged in a different way. And I say that because my mom she's been fostering for over 20 years now. And you know, she's adopted seven kids, amazing woman, like the most pure hearted woman I've ever met in my life. And one thing that she's told me is like, you know, like these classes teach you about trauma informed care, but they don't talk about feeling centered engagement. And she's like, it's cool to know about this stuff. But if you don't show how we engage differently, all we can do is just be like, Hey, I know that like what you went through and I know that this is bad and I know this, but like, if we don't engage as like people have changed, like I'm gonna go, you know, to what I know, like as an African American person, you know, when I look at George Floyd and Brian Taylor, like, it's cool that everybody's been informed of the wrongdoings that have been happening for long before those incidents have happened, but how are we gonna change the way we engaged? You know? And if we're not changing that, then like, all it is is, well, we are informed that there is police brutality, but if we listen to those cries, what, what people were really crying on was like, can you engage with people that look like me differently? You know? And that's the same thing in the foster care system. Can you engage with people who experience things like mine differently? And if you can then, like, you've done better.

Angela: 29:11

Thank you both. This was absolutely incredible. I'm so honored to have the time to, to speak with you. And I absolutely wanna congratulate both of you again on this award and it is so well deserved. And, and thank you so much for the great work you're doing for foster youth and, and others as well. To learn more about the REFCA champions and the Treehouse Foundation's Re-Envisioning Foster Care in America movement, please go to Treehousefoundation.net, and I hope you'll join me next week for another episode of the"Innovate" podcast.