Speaker 1 0:19

I'm out . Green thumbs are high

Welcome to Life to the Max

Speaker 1 0:30

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Speaker 3 0:30

Welcome back to another episode of Life to the Max . I'm your host with the most , max Gross . Today I have one of my best friends here with me , the guy who's faced adversity and has persevered so much in life before his accident and after his accident .

Speaker 4 0:52

Well , hello , welcome back for official third time , but second time on camera . And to correct what you said your only best friend , so yeah , all that was good though .

Speaker 3 1:04

Well , brother , it was .

Speaker 4 1:05

Well , brother , it was a good introduction , pretty solid there's two more episodes of joke .

Speaker 3 1:11

One is just us screwing around talking about funny stories and another one is this uh , actual story , but it's only on audio only like I commend you because I don't know , like how I could grow up in a house like I grew up as a foster kid , which got adopted yeah , which got adopted by a foster family that's still fosters to this day and they're old and still foster they still foster me . Yeah , it's crazy . Are you still cool with ?

Speaker 4 1:43

them . Yeah , I ,

Growing Up in the Foster System

Speaker 4 1:44

uh , I am . I probably did have a little hardship when I first got injured with them . Uh , probably hence the reason I met you . But , um , I'd say , you know , everything happens for a reason the best way to put it .

Speaker 3 1:58

So how was growing up ? Like well , I mean you got .

Speaker 4 2:03

You gotta think of random abandoned kids , or even you know kids that just didn't get the love by their parents . All get thrown into a house . You get bumps and bruises every now and then , but it's not . It's not like any other type of brotherhood you know , like you're , you're gonna fight and then you're gonna eat along . That's brotherhood in general . So we've had a lot of brothers , a lot , yeah , a lot .

Speaker 3 2:29

At this point , at this point , we're probably a partial gang so you grew up in foster , like how are your teenage years ?

Speaker 4 2:38

so we , we kind of lived . At first she lived , uh , in a smaller house and then moved out to kind of a suburb area called Forest Hill . Just listen to the name , forest Hills , you can imagine it's a hilly area with trees . So it was good , honestly , you know , as far as staying in shape , walking up hills , riding bikes up hills , stayed in shape . So that's probably why I got the athletic end of you know , maybe football or even joining the military . I think that's probably why I got the athletic end of you know , maybe football or even joining the military . I think that's probably why ?

Speaker 3 3:09

so we'll lead up to that . So you

Military Service and Deployment

Speaker 3 3:11

uh joined the military ? What year ?

Speaker 4 3:13

oh nine . Yeah , because it was a year after I graduated . It wasn't initially right away , so I graduated . Oh , eight june . That's when I went to Fort Knox .

Speaker 3 3:24

I thought you went to 08 . You're not an infantry .

Speaker 4 3:29

No , I'm a fister . You know , you're a fister . Elbows deep , bro , elbows deep .

Speaker 3 3:34

Well , what was the culture shock ? When you got to the military ? I was already adjusted . You know why ?

Speaker 4 3:40

Why , Because I went through a foster system where you're always around them Different random people at different times . Sometimes they're going to stick around longer , sometimes they're not going to be in that foster home anymore . So it was kind of like I was already programmed for the military . It's like the CIA knew what they were doing .

Speaker 3 3:58

I'm just kidding .

Speaker 4 4:07

So would you say , basic screening was like a culture shock at all . Yeah , yeah , just from the aspect of not talking back you know , yeah , you gotta shut the fuck up and do what you're told . Yeah , because sometimes you get a chip on your shoulder , especially over dumb shit , and then you're like , damn it , I just need to shut the fuck up before I make it worse .

Speaker 3 4:22

Did you ever get beat up in basic training ?

Speaker 4 4:24

No , no , I got choked out actually by my drill sergeant .

Speaker 3 4:29

Oh yeah , I didn't get choked out , I did .

Speaker 4 4:33

But we were doing combatives and I was dominating somebody else and he just came behind me , ripped me up , so didn't see it coming . And then then I tapped , but he still didn't do it , because probably I wasn't being , did you ? Uh ?

Speaker 3 4:50

easy . Did you shoot a weapon before like you went ?

Speaker 4 4:54

uh , not a real rifle , not before the military . Uh , my dad had like these little pellet bb guns every once in a while that doesn't count .

Speaker 3 5:03

A bb gun are you really comparing an m4 to a bb gun ?

Speaker 4 5:07

no , no , no , I'm not even lying . So all I shot before I went in the military was a bb gun and played call of duty and then went into the army and was an expert fucking shooter with an m16 or m4 . Had no rifleman experience before going in the military , so you could just probably say I had a good act for it when you graduated base victorian , did you like feel really good about yourself ?

Speaker 4 5:35

like I accomplished something that I didn't think I was gonna make it through . Probably the first couple weeks I was definitely doubting it . Like fuck this .

Speaker 3 5:44

This is .

Speaker 4 5:45

Yeah , this is stupid . I gotta fucking , especially when you get punished for somebody else's shit . You know that pisses you off . Yeah , somebody that ends up doing shit to fucking fuck the whole platoon . That's when you really get mad .

Speaker 3 6:02

That's when you want to beat up the kid .

Speaker 4 6:04

Yeah .

Speaker 3 6:10

They still do that shit . That's what happened to me . Blanket parties , certainly . That's what , no , you did . No , yeah , dude , I swear , yeah , I , um , I , uh . There was a drill sergeant . He was short as hell . He was trying to brim me for , for , like , people listening , brimming is like putting , like is putting his drill sergeant hat on my forehead . He couldn't reach me . I said what's the problem , drill sergeant ? He stepped stool . He said everybody do push-ups besides 216 , which was my roster number . I was like oh shit .

Speaker 4 6:47

Yeah , it's even worse when they're all working out and you got it , laxie daisy then you know you got eyes just waiting for you to slip up , yeah , so we were doing laundry .

Speaker 3 6:55

One day , and they were all just in there and they all just gave me a good beat down and like the next morning , the drill sergeant looks at me . He's like what happened to you and I was like I fell , what am I going to do ? He's like oh , my battle buddies beat me up . No , no , no .

Speaker 4 7:16

Then you get made fun of the rest of your military career .

Speaker 3 7:18

So when you went to your first duty station , of course it was the 101st Airborne Division .

Speaker 4 7:24

Yeah , that's how that's how I ended up up . You know it's crazy , though most people will get to their unit and they'll have some extensive training before they deploy , like most soldiers airmen all of them do . I went straight from four knocks to fort sill for my ait fire support training and then , right after that , went to 101st . Two weeks after I got to 101st I got placed in the rocket sans .

Speaker 3 8:01

Two weeks after that deployed did you get smoked during those two weeks ?

Speaker 4 8:06

oh for sure , yeah , because they gotta break this in like e4 mafia yeah , they gotta feel like they're yeah badasses , and they probably maybe have done a deployment , maybe not , yeah what was your thought process when you're like , holy crap , man , I'm going to afghanistan , like , like I mean , initially I was nervous as fuck because we're going to a country that we shouldn't even really have been in , but I get why we were there initially yeah but not for the extensive time that we were .

Speaker 4 8:41

Yeah , no , it was . It was nerve-wracking , uh , but at the same time I I'm glad I went yeah , because I didn't get to deploy .

Speaker 3 8:49

I felt like I was training for like a football game but I didn't get to see . That's what I'm saying like you .

Speaker 4 8:55

You were doing the training for it , like I did my initial training , but I didn't do any extensive training after basic and ait . Before I deployed it was just right out the chute . So first day is where you get shoved on some sort of fob in the middle of the middle east what's a fob ford ?

Speaker 3 9:17

can't think of the acronym on the base you're wearing a freaking military cap and you , I know bro hey , so .

Speaker 4 9:25

So , since I've been in the military , about 15 years ago , it's forward observer base .

Speaker 3 9:29

right , yeah , yeah .

Speaker 4 9:31

Forward . It's an observation . Yeah , you're right , okay , carry on . A little weird to get adjusted to because you seen not just the us military but multiple nato

The Life-Changing Accident

Speaker 4 9:49

foreign countries on this huge base in the middle of the middle east . And it was different because I'd go into the bathroom to shower see girls just walking in ass naked showering right beside me . It's like with other countries other countries .

Speaker 4 10:05

Yeah , like it was like I don't know if they were russian , but they were pretty close to russian , if not some other middle eastern type countries that had their military there and they had different bases for showers , but over in most of the european and Eastern countries the guys and girls shower together in the military . In the military ? I didn't know that man .

Speaker 4 10:30

Yeah , it's definitely a little different , because it threw me off guard when I first seen it , because I thought I was in a female and then I looked next to me and there's another dude and I'm like what the fuck's going on ? This girl's brave as fuck or something .

Speaker 3 10:44

But yeah , it was a little weird I remember you told me like , basically like that you went to like a cop , which is like yeah , what the fight .

Speaker 4 10:52

my final um destination was cop dicey um , which is right near the pact uh border of Afghanistan and Pakistan , so it was a little bit of a show .

Speaker 3 11:06

Did you guys have running water ?

Speaker 4 11:09

Not exactly running water , but yeah , we had a big fucking cylinder dome above our bathroom and the gravity just anti , fed down . Not anti fed , but fed down .

Speaker 3 11:20

Back then you told me that this was like a really dangerous area .

Speaker 4 11:30

Yeah , the uh KGP KG fed down back then you told me that this was like a really dangerous area . Yeah , the uh kgp kg pass . Uh is known for fucking ied and ambush sites all throughout uh that area , so anytime anybody rode through there they were getting contact , probably almost daily yeah and like keep in mind , this is 2009 . This is like this is probably right before bin laden was actually killed , like right before .

Speaker 3 11:53

I was just about to say that the hunt has been long , yeah so .

Speaker 4 11:57

But even even after he was killed , we were still there for a little while , like I mean , that was the whole point right , that was the whole point of us going there and we for being such a young kid going to the military and seeing this culture well , um , I pissed myself once from a vast amount of small arms fire , with explosions very close , yeah , but I guess I was still programmed a little bit to be able to make it through .

Speaker 3 12:29

That , I should say because I had the right people next to me you know , when you got home from the deployment and you had your patch , obviously the left arm . Yeah , you had a patch on the left arm . Did you get respect ?

Speaker 4 12:46

yeah , because then you don't have to feel like the guy that didn't deploy . Yeah , because somebody might bark at you with attitude . Some people like fuck you , you didn't even deploy . Somebody could say that like and don't , don't do that shit to lieutenants and shit too . Overseas Swear to God If somebody's already had a deployment under their belt . They treat the young officers like shit . Sometimes that's funny , though , like fuck you , butterbar , you don't know shit .

Speaker 3 13:16

Dude , I didn't salute Butterbars .

Speaker 4 13:19

Hey , max . Yeah , you used to salute your officers . What did you say ?

Speaker 3 13:24

Good morning , good afternoon .

Speaker 4 13:27

That's it At 101st . That's what you used to say .

Speaker 3 13:30

No , no , Actually , I would just say sir .

Speaker 4 13:33

Sir . Yeah , sir , you didn't address them another way . What way Air assault .

Speaker 3 13:37

Air assault oh yeah , yeah . Yeah , we did address air assault . Yeah air address . Yeah , so when you said it to any officer , that wasn't air assault , did they ?

Speaker 4 13:50

ever get mad if they didn't have wings . Yeah , now , a couple times they would adjust me like stop fucking saying that in order to say that , sir , I'd get back , get a little sass into it after you get out of the military , what's your choice of career ?

Speaker 4 14:05

Well , I started doing a little construction literally right before my accident happened . It wasn't even that long , it was probably a couple months and , yeah , my accident happened to fortunately and unfortunately lead me to you along the way . But the accident itself was pretty much quick summary Vacation with one of my buddies considering I just got back from fucking Afghanistan . I just got back from fucking Afghanistan . I by all right need to fucking explore , let off steam , not give a fuck about civilization and work at that moment , even though I was already working . But I needed to get away . So we went down to his family's property in South Carolina where we were partying for a couple days , woke up

Recovery and Hospital Challenges

Speaker 4 15:05

in the morning , started riding four wheelers around his property and we rode probably for like 30 minutes , not far , and then took a break , started shooting some guns Nothing crazy , just like a couple of nine millimeters , a 12 gauge shotgun . There might've been an .

Speaker 4 15:25

M4 that we shot a couple times , but nothing crazy . His uncle was gonna go get a , uh , a barrett 50 caliber sniper rifle but he had to go dig it out while we rode around with four wheelers , yeah . And then , uh , I was trying to keep up with my buddy because he knew the property I didn't , so he fucking took off on the four-wheeler . I'm trying to catch up . I'm probably going like 50 , 55 miles per hour , hot on his ass and gaining on him . And then I hear a boom , because a .50 cal has a very distinct sound that not a lot of rifles

Speaker 4 16:03

do . So when I first heard it , I stopped paying attention initially to what I was doing , even though I was still doing it . I was still flooring it , but I was not looking forward per se . I was looking for where the gunshot might have came from , because that's our training distance direction , distance direction . As soon as you , as soon as you hear a gunshot and you're not located , how far away do you think it is ? What direction ? So that's , alertly , what I did . Then I heard again and then the second one sounded like it was way closer because you hear a

Speaker 4 16:43

snap . So then I'm freaking out , not even looking forward at all . I'm standing up on the four-wheeler , still flooring it , trying to use my peripheral vision to look straight , while looking to the side and behind me , and then didn't look forward until I felt my body go weightless like a fucking feather . That's when I looked forward and had enough time to say , oh , before the shit , and that fucking , probably 50 , 60-year-old tree smacked the fuck out of me . Four-wheeler kept going down a steep hill . It was like a steep I wouldn't say it was a cliff , but a steep fault that went into a tree line . Nothing but trees . Smacked the tree . Four-wheeler kept flipping down the hill , flipped over the tree branch , hit one , hit another , about 15 , 20 feet in the air , came down on my head and that is the short story uh , so a little , a little extensive actually before

Speaker 4 17:55

yeah , before before , actually before I that my buddy was at the top of the hill because he had initially tried to stop me from chasing him , but I wasn't paying attention . I was pulled over on the side of the road because it was hidden with some tall , probably two-foot field grass . It was pretty tall , but I didn't't see that was a sharp turn right into a tree line . Um , he said he seen me trying to get up on all fours and I was like trying to drag my leg up to stand up , but my head was just into my chest , basically so , and he didn't know what to do . Because what the fuck do you do when you see that ? So , he said , he immediately took off running , jumping downhill because it was dirt and trees , but it was a steep grade incline decline .

Speaker 4 18:59

I should say uh , and he said he ran . He ran and jumped on me , uh , to hold me down , to prevent me from getting up , because he could tell that I was fucked up . I didn't even wake up till I heard the choppers in the background so you got airlifted oh , yeah , um , I honestly thought I was back in afghanistan when I did gain consciousness .

Speaker 4 19:27

Uh , because I just heard , and you hear , that all the time in afghanistan , all the time , choppers are like the biggest transportation to get you to the cops , which is a smaller observing point with only one , maybe two platoons . Fobs got thousands of soldiers . So if you're on a FOB , you're very well protected overseas , but when you're on a small little cop , that's when your asshole needs to be puckered almost daily . Yeah , because this is non-stop .

Speaker 3 20:06

It's chaos so you feel like you're in afghanistan when you're in the helicopter .

Speaker 4 20:11

You said you woke up just just from the initial wake up , because I heard a guy tell me don't move , don't move , you're injured right now . Don't move at all't move , you're injured right now , don't move at all . And then , like alertly , I'm just like oh my God , I got hit . I thought the Humvee got hit or something , I don't know . Initially , that's just what I was thinking . It was like because I haven't heard a fucking chopper sound since Afghanistan , which was about five months prior to the accident .

Speaker 3 20:46

That's literally what I was about to ask you . I was going to ask you like do you think ?

Speaker 4 20:48

like you had post-traumatic stress disorder , then I think the gun is definitely what well gun . I think the gun was what triggered me not to pay attention . So yeah , ptsd .

Speaker 3 20:58

You got to look where . You got to keep your head on swivel .

Speaker 4 21:02

That's what they always , that's what they train you to do so that you're vigilantly very quick , reacting to whatever sound that you hear , so that you can run forward , not backward , right so you get airlifted to a hospital and , uh , they , they can't treat you right .

Speaker 4 21:21

The hospital , yeah , the first , the first hospital didn't have the technology to perform this procedure , which was a spinal fusion for a internal decapitated quad . Um , I completely severed my c6 between my c6 and c7 and uh , seven my c6 between my c6 and c7 and uh , you were decapitated . The the outcome of that , if anybody doesn't know what happens to the body when it is decapitated , is it swells from two to three , even four times its regular body weight to prevent um the blood from escaping . Now , considering mine was still attached , it just swore my face up and neck as well from all the damage to the spinal cord . So my sister , when they were trying to get somebody to identify me , swore up and down . It wasn't me . For about 10 minutes she said she had to stare into my face and then just bust it out in tears because she couldn't believe that was me . She just seen me like a few days ago before that and uh , she's like how the fuck is he that big ? You know ?

Speaker 3 22:35

it's crazy how life could change in like split second or literally a split second I was was about 80 and she said I looked like I weighed 400 pounds . Holy crap .

Speaker 4 22:45

Just like a big fucking Michelin man .

Speaker 3 22:48

So when they performed the procedure , where did you go ?

Speaker 4 22:53

They flew me to another . I'm wanting to say it was Charleston . They did the . This is how they woke me up , because I flatlined a couple of times . They woke me up on the operation table and told me you had a spinal cord injury and explained it very blunt , very clear . You need to have a surgery right now , called a spinal fusion . If you don't do this right now , you probably won't live . That's how they described it . So I'm already fucked up , barely fucking alert to what's going on , just woke right back up . I don't even know how they woke me up . Yeah , I was like fucking do it and then back out again . Then woke up , all fucked up even more Because I swear before the procedure , the initial helicopter ride . When I was alert on the helicopter , I remember wiping my tears and I remember having like full hand function , but it is C6 , c7 boundary . So who knows , maybe that was just from the extra damage that was happening from me getting up .

Speaker 3 24:04

I don't know I can kind of relate with my car accident because I remember like possibly moving my hands and like tapping my friend to call the police or to call an ambulance . So I get what you're saying . It's like this extraterrestrial world we don't know if it's real or fake .

Speaker 4 24:27

And then you fucking wake up and it's just like fuck .

Speaker 3 24:32

Why am I still here ?

Speaker 4 24:33

Yeah , that's always the first initial yeah , yeah and you probably felt that oh yeah , it's always like why god , why the fuck , what the fuck did I do wrong ?

Speaker 3 24:45

what was your journey ? Like with therapy and like getting uh back to it was , I'd say , lifestyle , I'd say it was up and down .

Speaker 4 24:55

So , like when I first got hurt , it wasn't really a want to get back together , because as soon as I realized what limitations I had , I think it pissed me off like I don't want to do shit . Fuck this dumb ass shit . I want to do nothing . I want to sit in a fucking room , dark ass room , and listen to fucking music till my ears bleed . I think that was my initial first thought .

Speaker 3 25:19

They told me you were a dick to nurses . Yeah , me too .

Speaker 4 25:24

Yeah , it was . I mean you're young something catastrophic happens .

Speaker 3 25:29

How old were ?

Speaker 4 25:30

you , I was 21 .

Speaker 3 25:31

21 ? I was 20 when it happened .

Speaker 4 25:34

So you're just mad . So the slightest little thing that could dissatisfy you ruthless do you know which one got me the turning ?

Speaker 3 25:46

when you would have to turn in the hospital with the motherfuckers , they would come in . Okay , mr gross , it's time to turn , it's time to roll you on your other side it's like fuck you bitch . I am feeling great right now . I'm finally in the middle of this movie and now you have to turn it . There's no pausing because there's no streaming fucking hospitals . And then she turns me anyways . She's like okay , well , looks like everything is good , I gotta do a job you had a ventilator as well , right ?

Speaker 4 26:22

yeah , twice . Well , I'd say for the first initial , when I first got hurt , it was I didn't get off the vent initially , probably about three months , because it took so much training , basically because I fucking passed out probably half a dozen times trying to breathe on my own . Then they had to fucking open it back up , put it right back in again , do it all over again . I'm like fuck , it was just scary , it was scary .

Speaker 3 26:52

It is scary . I was explaining it the other day . It's like a paradox . Your whole life is flipped upside down and you don't know .

Speaker 4 27:02

Like Stranger things or something .

Speaker 3 27:03

You're on the other dark side of it you don't , you don't know like what to do . There's there's no like when you want to get better at something , you keep doing it . There's no like answer , which , which is one of the things I hate , I , I hate and I still that there's no like definite resolution .

Speaker 4 27:23

Yeah , yeah , yeah , like to where you can just be up and at it again like you were younger or something how long were you in this like emo phase type ? Emo phase . That's a good way to put it , because it was very dark rooms and hard drugs . Yeah , yeah , um , I'd say a solid on and off six years , about half my half my , half my injury , life for sure .

Speaker 3 27:49

Well , like , what about your journey with therapy ? To like , get out of the hospital or did you stay in the hospital ?

Speaker 4 27:57

Max , you know me , I stayed in the hospital cause the girls that were there until I fucking met you and you kind of like dude , you want to move out of the hospital and then , after like sitting there for four , years , so you stayed there just for the girls . Well , yeah , dude , there's nurses that are younger , caregivers that are younger , and then you're surrounded by old guys . So you got a good chance . You got a really good chance of maybe you know flinging up a little conversation but when did you like ?

Speaker 3 28:27

I remember you explaining that you had to like work hard just to like eat on your own again , and so , like initially , they even move my arms yeah , uh , the best way to describe it .

Speaker 4 28:39

It literally felt , felt like somebody ripping my skin off just to move my hands and arms , because the nerve line from my damage of my spinal cord is literally right on that line . Swelling back down I shouldn't say swelling down , stop swelling and then retreating my hands and feet scabbed up with scabs . That's why I got a bunch of little slits all in my hands , all on the bottom of my feet . They had to wrap my feet in vinegar towels to try to get the scabs to go away . That was a miracle to be alive Miracle , by the way , like the initial accident . They put me on the stick unit . That was like slightly above ICU for critical condition people . You know , severe injuries and I was the only one that lived out of a room full of six people Maybe four , no , it was four . Two of them were gunshot victims , one was motorcycle and I was a four-wheeler . I was the only one that lived , uh , and they had like preachers in their praying for us and stuff .

Speaker 3 29:51

So I'm a little bit of a miracle so god is good those guys when I was pissed like I was pissed for a good three months because I couldn't eat . But I had my girlfriend at the time . I've told you this before . I had my girlfriend at the time . She was like my rock and then when she left , everything fell apart . So the one thing I wanted to focus on was therapy . So I did just a shit ton of therapy because I wanted to get out of that hospital .

Speaker 4 30:24

yeah , like that was so was was it like more motivational in a way for the therapy since she left , she was the crutch .

Speaker 3 30:32

She was a crutch for sure I think and I think , uh , if we were in different positions and I was like the man and she she , she was , she was like injured , like , and I'm 20 years old and I'm dating her , I probably would have loved to just because I'm not young , my first , my first relationship when my accident happened .

Speaker 4 30:56

I literally offered the ultimatum like fucking leave . Like I'm not going to be the same soldier you knew before , like somebody else is gonna be able to make you much happier .

Speaker 3 31:09

I tried to offer that ultimatum and but when did you start getting that mindset back that you are a soldier ? You're doing a great job ?

Speaker 4 31:17

I just recently , man , honestly , the past few years Just getting into , I think , a sport that is healthy and allows me to work through my thoughts .

Speaker 3 31:30

So I met you in 2016 . That was seven years after your accident .

Speaker 4 31:35

Yeah . So I'd say , initially you probably motivated me to get the fuck out of the hospital . Initially , you probably motivated me to get the fuck out of the hospital Because that was where my stopping grounds were for years , because I didn't have no projection . I didn't want to do nothing , I was emo , like you said , and it was poor me . You know what was it like when we first met .

Speaker 4 32:07

What was it like Like met ? What was it like ? Oh my god . Oh , all right . So yeah , this is how it goes down . I , I am a seasoned veteran at the va and

Meeting and Friendship Development

Speaker 4 32:13

, uh , I've been around the block for a few years and I was kind of the go-to guy when I talked to some of the newly injured veterans . And there's a nurse that comes to me like chuck , chuck , you gotta go talk to this young soldier that just got hurt . I swear , I think you'll . You guys will hit it off , but he's really depressed , he's really sad , and I think you can go in there and cheer him up just by telling him that you're army veteran too , and I'm like yeah sure I'll go over there if I can stroll over to the other side of the hospital .

Speaker 4 32:50

It was a long track too yeah , the heinz va is a big campus . Yeah , I jive over there and , uh , I get over . I'm like like where's Max Gross ? And they point at one of the rooms , right by the desk , and as soon as I even not even get all the way to the door , your windows open a little bit . I see a girl in your bed feeding you food while you were smiling . And then I get in there at the time I'm not dating you . I'm like this motherfucker ain't depressed . It's a fucking girl feeding him . I don't have no girl feeding me , fuck this guy . No , I didn't really say that part , but uh , and then when I found out you were in the fucking hundred and first two . I'm like that is so fucking ironic , you know well , I live by the spade .

Speaker 3 33:42

I'm not rakasan yeah yeah rakasan's rule .

Speaker 4 33:47

If you guys don't know , third brigade rules .

Speaker 3 33:51

Yeah , we rule the brigade does rule . And that's where we uh like had a moment , like when we first said , oh , we're 101st , like , okay , we're 101st , there's a lot of dude , there's a lot of , like you know , brigades Well , not brigades , there's a lot of battalions and stuff . And then you're like , oh , I was 3rd Brigade . I was like I was 3rd Brigade too , and then we just got into a bunch of hijinks .

Speaker 4 34:25

This man is the reason why I was able to get high the first time . Ah , they make it sound like I'm just a bad influence .

Speaker 3 34:31

Now this guy's got the stuff . Dude , I was like . I was like this is my man , okay , this motherfucker , is a daredevil and doesn't give a fuck .

Speaker 4 34:37

I mean because at the beginning of your injury you don't , you don't give no fucks Because you're like fuck , what are they going to do ?

Speaker 4 34:44

But this motherfucker played that to the T and I was scared . He still does . I'm in my injury some years now and I'm like , dude , we're going to get fucking busted . Fuck them , what are they going to do ? Put me in handcuffs . I'm like , no , but I'm thinking of something . Man , they're going to think of something . Put us in a fucking padded room and take our chairs from us . I don't know . Yeah .

Speaker 3 35:06

And then we like I know I always bring this up , it's such a good story Like we were just chilling in my room and , dude , like honestly , I want to say thank you for like coming to my room all the time , cause I would have been depressed . I didn't have a brother , like you know . I mean like I . I mean I had my friends that were able-bodied and I didn't have , like a person that was in a wheelchair that I like really gravitated towards , because everyone else like bitched and moaned and they were all old , because we were out of VA .

Speaker 4 35:40

God works in mysterious ways , Max .

Speaker 3 35:43

Yeah .

Speaker 4 35:44

Ironically , we were both in the fucking 101st too , which is crazy yeah .

Speaker 3 35:48

Yeah , and then I lost . So we find this place . And this is 2016, . Okay , so you can't deliver alcohol . We find this place .

Speaker 4 36:02

To a federal facility . You get that . No , you can't deliver alcohol . We find this place To a federal facility , you get that .

Speaker 3 36:05

No , you can't deliver alcohol at all .

Speaker 4 36:08

You can't nowadays . That's what Grubhub's for . You can get booze picked up .

Speaker 3 36:11

I'm saying nowadays , yeah , nowadays , back then yeah , no , it really was . So we were like let's get Mexican food , so we go to the Mexican and then let's go down the list and like margaritas they got margaritas you can get .

Speaker 4 36:26

Don't fucking way To-go cups , extra large 40-gallon cups .

Speaker 3 36:30

So we're like you know what , you know what ? Fuck it , let's give it a try , let's see if it's true . And then the food gets here . I like let me get some more .

Speaker 4 36:39

I'm fucking holding the cup over the edge of the bed . He's acting like I don't know , like he just needed a drink and he was sucking it down , and then he's like let's get another one . Yeah , I was like they might catch on if they smell booze all on your breath .

Speaker 3 37:00

We had really cool nerves when he was cool , when he really cool nerves when he was cool when she was cool .

Speaker 4 37:05

When he was cool yeah . She didn't ever try to bust our good time .

Speaker 3 37:14

One of your favorite stories is when we were in the rec room and we just got stoned .

Speaker 4 37:19

After you had that edible too .

Speaker 3 37:21

Yeah .

Speaker 4 37:26

Yeah , you were with me I can't I can't remember her name . Yeah , oh yeah . When you were in there you kept hearing the baby cry . And then he's like looking around like where the fuck is there a baby ? You hear fucking crying and then there's this little tiny fucking tv that's on a movie . I'm like max is from the tv and then then he was like what the fuck ?

Speaker 3 37:52

one of the hard parts is is when you're young , you're stupid and I uh , let this one get away , jimmy , if you're out there listening .

Speaker 3 38:01

Yeah , no , I'm just kidding , you were living , and it's crazy , though , is because when they made it sound like you needed a desperate friend and when I first met you , I was like this motherfucker is not sad , he's doing good , like I see him smiling a lot , I didn't smile at all , but I think it's because you had good company that was bumping and a good support system and you know what , like the mental fortitude to go through it , the position , obviously like I was still figuring out things , but like it is so difficult Because you go , it's like a roller coaster you have your ups and downs , your ups and downs , but then soon it's like a roller coaster you have your ups and downs , your ups and downs , but then soon it starts like stopping . You know , like maybe like the roller coaster is going to start again , but like it starts stopping . And , like you said , you found , like you've literally found peace in the last year or so , a few years , not like the .

Speaker 4 38:57

The wheelchair rugby has opened up a door that I never had there before , because I myself has been slacking in all physical fitness for almost a decade at least , and now it's making me want to stay healthy , basically Because I see older men , I see women in the sport kick fucking ass . So it pisses the younger me off like how you gonna let a fucking girl get out here and hit harder than you .

Speaker 4 39:31

So it's reawakened the fire in my soul , like your fat ass your fat ass needs to be pushing more , because if this girl is making you look like you're a little wimp , something's wrong with this team .

Speaker 3 39:46

Hey , whatever works , if spite works , whatever works .

Speaker 4 39:48

I'm just saying I'm not used to women being in a physical , very physical sport . I don't see them actually playing rugby that much . I'm sorry . How does wheelchair rugby work ? If it's a contact sport .

Speaker 4 40:01

So it's these chairs that look like little chariots . Um , they're like fortified with heavy uh contact steel that you push a chair virtually really hard to possibly make the other person more crippled . Yeah , you just hit them real hard and then they get a more of a point reduction in rugby . But no , all seriousness , it is a very good exercise because you're constantly moving . It's like soccer you're just running the whole time , but with your arms , obviously , you just keep pushing . Um , it's on a basketball court . At the end there's two cones that make a goal . You got to make it through there without getting hit into the cone , basically , and you got to keep the ball on you . So you pass it around forward , backwards and then somebody can hit you to try to knock it out of your lap or , uh , just hit you in general , even if you ain't got the ball well , this is like a new love .

Speaker 4 41:02

The wheelchair , because you you've been doing wheelchair games for the past , like five , five years now five years or two-time national right no , not national national champion , not an olympian I have never played on the usa team , but I would like to have that chance one day right hopefully hopefully before the 2028 la olympics wink , wink you know that'd be cool .

Speaker 3 41:30

Yeah , you keep pushing me . You're like you need to do bocce ball , ramp , ramp , bocce .

Speaker 4 41:35

Bro , I'm telling you when you start playing it at first couple times , you're like all right , this is pretty fun , especially if you're kicking the shit out of somebody . It feels good . And then on top of it , if you can make the committee select you on the USA team , you can travel the fucking world and get paid for it . And if you medal you get bonuses , but they pay for all your traveling . Yeah , for bocce , but he'd have to practice quite a bit . I've seen like , because there's bocce , I'm good at bocce , but I'm not like that good . I have won two national titles . I am playing again this year in Alabama for my third . I've only competed four times in the nationals , so well , this will be my fourth . So two out of three ain't bad . Considering the first one , I got hospitalized , so I didn't , I didn't , I didn't get to even compete for that medal , so it's like I'm two for two in a way .

Speaker 3 42:33

Was it related ? Was it a bocce ?

Speaker 4 42:35

No , no , no , it had nothing to do with bocce , that's right . No , no , it was a dumb nurse is what

Finding Purpose Through Wheelchair Rugby

Speaker 4 42:43

it was . That's why I was hospitalized . Yeah , they went to go change my catheter and blew my urethra , jesus , because he inflated the balloon of the indwelling catheter while it wasn't all the way in my bladder and busted my urethra line .

Speaker 3 42:55

Oh my God , I almost bled out because he took it out and then blood . People don't know half of it . They don't Like , like , like , yeah , you know A lot of people with like catheters and all this . Fuck catheters , all of it .

Speaker 4 43:13

I remember like you were telling me about you have super pubic catheter and just completely ruined you for like for a solid year of torturous hell and it was performed at the heinz vaa , probably by the liola doctors . But uh , yeah , the funny part is , after the whole year of agony , instead of them suggesting at that moment like hey , do you want to do the procedure over again ? No , they waited for me to take it out , saying no , I'm putting the indwelling back in because my blood pressure just never wanted to come down they were like we think we might have took the wrong approach at the surgery . But if you let us do it again , we'll get it better this time . I'm like what ? You want me to take a chance again ? I'm like I don't , I , I just can't , because I went through hell like that sucks what year was that ?

Speaker 4 44:08

probably the year right before I met you .

Speaker 3 44:13

That was probably 2015 so you're in the hospital . You met me , I get out of the hospital . We have like Thanksgiving with our family together . We have Christmas with our family together . We watch the fucking Cubs win the World Series together on a pizza box like fucking TV .

Speaker 4 44:34

A small little 12-inch TV we're like what ?

Speaker 3 44:37

No fucking way .

Speaker 4 44:38

It was lit , though for a 12-inch TV , I was cheering pretty loud , it was lit .

Speaker 3 44:42

I don't know if I had more . I think it was just you and me .

Speaker 4 44:45

Yeah , so if anybody doesn't know , I'm from Ohio , so I'm a big supporter of my home Cincinnati Reds and Buckeyes .

Speaker 4 44:55

But when I did live in Chicago for eight years , I'd never been to a professional ballpark until I went to the Cubs . And then I ended up going to another Cubs game and another Cubs game . And then I met Max and then found out he was a Cubs fan . So I was like , oh shit , this is pretty cool . I met max and then found out he was a cubs fan , so I was like , oh shit , this is pretty cool .

Speaker 4 45:12

And then the cubs kind of won me over a little bit when they , when they won the world series , considering I'd never been to a professional ballpark before then , but after a dozen games and then watching some with max when the world series , I was like the cubs are pretty good . And then the very next year they let every fucking fucking player . It was good Bye . I was like that's fucking stupid . I'm a Reds fan again .

Speaker 3 45:37

Well , I kept nagging you . I'm like , bro , I have this house , come and live with me , come and live with me . The funny part is I used .

Speaker 4 45:50

I used that nursing home to pick up women but it sucked , because I would sometimes have an old man as my roommate and I'm like , dude , ain't no girl want to come chill in this hospital bedroom with some old guy next door listening to everything I do , old guy next door listening to everything I do . And then when you suggest that I'm like that is the problem to all or that is the answer to all my problems right now , I got max telling me he's got this nice place and then when I look it up , I'm like , oh , dude , every girl's gonna want to come here now .

Speaker 3 46:24

It's like all my , all my problems are gone right now and when we got here it took a little bit to catch your bearings . Then your brother started coming and helped you . You ended up moving out and moving back to your hometown .

Speaker 4 46:43

Yeah , all over , some girl , that fucking . I shouldn't even wasted my time .

Speaker 3 46:49

She wasn't very lucky , she was not very lucky at all . Uh , she wishes to be this lucky , uh , but uh , I'm glad that did not work out for all the right reasons so something , uh , something that I kind of want to bounce off of was is uh , I'm kind of at that same way where , like I'm , I have like a schedule . I used to like sleep till like five and a half . You know , go out partying . You know this , we did this , you know like I would just do , I would live life the wrong way .

Speaker 3 47:24

And now I'm like at a point where , like I'm like , okay , I have to do this , I have to accomplish this , I have to accomplish this . And then , like , waking up early in the morning , now like it's just , uh , like I said , the roller coaster goes up and down , up and down . Right now , it's right . Right now it's like straight , it's going straight , that's not . It's not up or down , and it's been like that for like a good six months I get what you're saying .

Speaker 4 47:50

When , when I feel like there's not , I guess , a full production of me utilizing days , I could feel like that utilizing days . But when I feel good , when I when I do feel good about something that I do , then I feel like my day is up if that makes sense . So like when you're starting to about something that I do , then I feel like my day is up if that makes sense . So like when you're starting to read all that much , you don't feel good that you just fucking killed

Living Life to the Max

Speaker 4 48:16

like half of a phone book or something the rise and fall .

Speaker 4 48:23

Yeah , dude that thing is huge . When you show me that on the video , I'm like that's a pretty thick ass book . Yeah , that's the book site . Or like child size , like probably 120 pages .

Speaker 3 48:34

I feel accomplished . I don't know like . I feel like , you see , you know how you see , when you're working out for rugby , like you're able to move your arms and work out , like I feel accomplished because , like , I'm like working out my brain in a way , like , and it feels like I'm doing reps . It feels like I'm on the bench press doing reps yeah , I get it and learning the knowledge and learning about my quote fucking ancestors , yeah it's funny .

Speaker 3 49:00

It's funny though the one thing that you told me that really , uh , keeps me going which I think is cool about each other is that you say I motivate you when you're upset because you're like well , max has pain in his throat , max paralyzed it's from the aspect of me shouldn't be able to bitch , considering I have more than someone else .

Speaker 4 49:25

So , yeah , uh , when when I do hit some of them , stalemate moments in my life where I'm like fuck , everything's fucked , then I have to kind of recollect and you are the motivation that's pretty much got me back into life in general , because I was emo before I met you and then I've blossomed into emo plus and then I have blossomed into emo plus .

Speaker 3 49:51

So you're like , you're not emo . Plus , bro , you're traveling the country , you're going to all these wheelchair games . You're doing all these things and I promise , I promise you , we're on a podcast , you're going to have evidence . I will go to a wheelchair game next year which is in Detroit . You said .

Speaker 4 50:09

Detroit , michigan , you should have went this year .

Speaker 3 50:17

I mean dude , I should have .

Speaker 4 50:18

Minneapolis . Minnesota is where it's going down this year .

Speaker 3 50:34

And since he is opting out of this one , he has sworn on this cameras that he will be in Detroit , I will be in detroit next year .

Speaker 4 50:37

it's like june or june , it's july , probably july maybe , sometimes beginning of august , maybe okay , but it's in detroit , so it's not as hot as new orleans , which where it was last year . That shit was fucking bacon down there every day .

Speaker 3 50:49

It was like hundreds what's your , what's your fondest memory of ? Like the wheelchair games , like what ? What gave you ? Like made you like say like okay , this is my purpose , this is what I like to do I'd say .

Speaker 4 51:01

At first it was bouncing into other people that smoked weed while trying wheelchair sports and and I was like , all right , these people ain't such fucking douchebags and tools . I guess I'll stick around . And then I met some pretty badass and cool people along the way .

Speaker 3 51:19

Chuck , you did something that I want to do , but none of my nurses will sign up for it . You jumped out of a fucking airplane last year .

Speaker 4 51:31

Perfectly good airplane .

Speaker 3 51:32

There's no such thing as a perfectly good airplane .

Speaker 4 51:34

Yeah , dude , we didn't need to fucking jump . We were just like what else are we going to do on this nice sunny , windy it's partially windy day it wasn't too windy and we're like you know what Oscar Mike's like we'll pay for the ticket . I'm like , fuck it , I'm doing it then I ain't got no excuse . Now , my biggest fear you want to know what my biggest fear was Breaking your neck . No , no , shitting myself .

Speaker 3 51:57

Yeah , just like the airport . You want to explain that real quick .

Speaker 4 52:04

So I always tell Max like my biggest fear when I'm on any plane , let alone fucking jumping out of a perfectly good one , is shitting myself on the plane . The reason is because if you're fucking a quad , you got to get transferred in and out of your seat with some assistance , and if you were to defecate on the plane and then had to get somebody to transfer you to an aisle chair to get off the plane , you're just going to have shit dripping from the plane all the way down the tunnel , all the way out the gate and then transfer into your actual chair so that you can go clean yourself up , tracking more shit all throughout the airport . So if that was to happen , just tell the pilot it's okay to send this one down kamikaze . Nobody needs to know about this . Don't want to live through it now . Yeah . Yeah it is my joke , but I'm kind of serious I would be terrified of that too .

Speaker 3 53:02

Like fuck , like , I'm just like a looking guy everybody else .

Speaker 4 53:07

They got a fucking bathroom they can go to on the damn airplane , but not somebody that can't fucking walk to the damn bathroom .

Speaker 3 53:13

Can you imagine the guy working that day just like ?

Speaker 4 53:17

fuck my wife dude God damn .

Speaker 3 53:19

There's a lot of fucking shit all over the damn plane and I have to pick him up because the liability it's going to get on my sleeves .

Speaker 4 53:27

They probably would . Honestly . They probably would just close the plane down , like we're going to have to move planes because it's going to take too long to fucking clean up You'd probably play a big dick in our business .

Speaker 3 53:38

Can you imagine the smell ? Yeah , that's what I was saying they probably would like .

Speaker 4 53:48

No , we can't do it because somebody's going to get on here like dude .

Speaker 3 53:49

I'm not riding in a plane that smells like shit and go ask for their fucking refund . It seems like you're living life to the max and that's what I wanted to get you on , because you have that motto .

Speaker 4 54:00

Now I can live it . Living life to the max .

Speaker 3 54:03

Yeah , and you're doing it . Like I said , you're traveling and you found a purpose , which is good .

Speaker 4 54:14

Besides smoking weed , because I know that's your favorite thing to do . I mean it's the best medicine out there . I mean I can say I take a lot of pharmaceuticals . They don't take care of most of my problems , but Mary Jane does .

Speaker 3 54:25

They want to eat this event . When it comes out , I'll smoke weed all day .

Speaker 4 54:30

I'm going to hold you to that .

Speaker 3 54:31

Hold you I can't do it right now . It hurts too much I don't blame you .

Speaker 3 54:35

That's the worst , but we have different , uh difficulties in our lives but we still have like different strengths as well . Like you're , you're like you give me strength , I give you strength . That's why we're like best friends and I wanted to get you on the podcast one on one with me . I just wanted to get people to get a background definitely your like your background growing up in a foster , foster system , like I couldn't imagine doing that . I almost had to grow up in a foster system , which I was very scared of . I did . I did foster system , which I was very scared of .

Speaker 3 55:11

I didn't , it's okay , and I was infantry and you were .

Speaker 4 55:15

That's cavalry . That's better . Cavalry sneaks around infantry or just dumb brutes right . Smarter right .

Speaker 3 55:28

It was great having you on . I'm happy that you decided to stay . I'm sorry Evie killed you .

Speaker 4 55:35

I'm sorry , I'm so sorry . That was planned , wasn't it ? Oh no , let's see if this motherfucker thinks he's fatter . I seriously thought I broke the bed . I'm like holy shit , dude . I've been working out how the fuck I put the box spring upside down in the guest room and fell .

Speaker 3 55:54

She went to art school .

Speaker 4 55:55

I went to art school .

Speaker 3 55:56

She went to art school .

Speaker 4 55:57

She doesn't know how boxes work . She knows how to draw them . Well . Max , I'm sorry , chuck . You're good , Max . It's always a pleasure seeing you , bro , you're the one that helped me get out of my shell , so I can only try to help push some of that energy you gave me back on you every now and then .

Speaker 3 56:17

My house is always open to you . Hopefully one day we'll get a house together like we talk about . I'm pretty sure we'll do that one day . Tennessee , yes , tennessee , tennessee , yes , tennessee , yes , tennessee . I don't know about .

Speaker 4 56:38

Nashville , because Nashville is so expatriate .

Speaker 3 56:40

It used to be nice .

Speaker 4 56:41

Even though Nashville is nice . But I wouldn't want to live right by Nashville .

Speaker 3 56:45

Like Smoky Mountains Backside of a mountain .

Speaker 4 56:49

I don't know if I want to be all the way at the top , just somewhere near or close to a mountain .

Speaker 3 56:53

Well , yeah , because you don't want your wheelchair to roll off .

Speaker 4 56:56

Yeah , because you got to make sure you got good brakes . Do you have anything to say to the people . Live every day like it's your last and live life to the max .

Speaker 3 57:09

It's beautiful . Well , for anybody that is listening , we are going to be at the Abilities Expo on June 20th to the 22nd of 2025 , if you're listening to this , like three years later , it's 2025 . It's a good point 're gonna be at the expo and have a booth and everything . You guys can share your story as well , and if you enjoyed this content , please like and subscribe . Go check out our instagram and fucking live life to the max , like this guy said .

Speaker 4 57:47

Subscribe and action oh're gonna do that soon . And action , and cut , oh and cut . Yeah , I do it with one of those words .