Female Probiotic Use from Pre-conception to Menopause

In this episode I welcome back Yuwa from Activated Probiotics to discuss specific probiotic use at various stages of a woman's life. In particular we talk about how specific probiotic strains can help with pre-conceptual health, iron status and in particular mood and bone health especially when in peri and menopause.

Not to be missed if you're a female.

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Transcript

Female Probiotic Use from Pre-conception to MenopauseTue, Nov 28, 2023 2:29PM 52:59SUMMARY KEYWORDSiron, bacteria, women, product, strains, terms, probiotics, vaginal microbiome, oestrogen, absorbed, bone, shown, work, cells, health, research, point, impact, probiotic, lactobacillusSPEAKERSPeter Williams, Yuwa Astor 

Peter Williams 00:03
Good afternoon, everyone. It is functional medicine bite size. Yet again, weather's pretty dull in London. But it's it's pretty good in Portugal, because we're speaking to Yuwa Aghedo do who is our sort of go to expert from the probiotic company Activated Probiotics a company we use quite a lot. We like their technology, their products are very much research based, which is great. And I've sort of, Yuwa's our sort of resident expert. So we've we've already done, we've only done one haven't we, I think the one podcast didn't do. We have Yes, we kind of did a general overview of probiotics Yeah. So, you know, there's a real sort of groundswell for using probiotics, but the sort of world's changing very quickly. So it's not just probiotics these days. It's prebiotics. And it's post biotics. So if you go back and listen to that podcast, you're gonna get a really good, deep dive into the difference. And I suppose you are what I'll get us to do, because we're really going to your company has done a really good job hasn't it of sort of almost tracking, because it's really sort of a woman's sort of microbe probiotic podcast today. So if you're a woman in particular, it's a woman and you're 40 pluses. This is absolutely a podcast for you. And because we're going to sort of talk about how bacterial products so probiotics are incredibly helpful in most of your life course journey, and Yuwa you're going to pick up a few points on that with regards to some specifics. But look, I know we've done a big deep on deep dive on that on the last podcast, but can I just give you a scenario so that you can lay the lay the sort of story before we go on and you can sort of jump in? And that is imagine I've got no idea of probiotics? Imagine that I've sort of heard that they might be good to take, but I've got no idea. And I'm sort of thinking of going up to the local health store to grab some, am I am I doing essentially a good thing? Or is that is that a pretty silly thing for me to do?

Yuwa Astor 02:17
Well, it's not silly, but really where because as you said, we are as a company, really heavily based on research and the research is a foundation and myself as a practitioner. And like yourself, we what we do is informed by what the research states. So really, what the research is showing is that we want to be moving away from this sort of general shotgun approach of like, oh, I need a probiotic to actually looking at specific bacteria do specific things. So do I need that thing. And it's exactly the same way that we'd utilise a nutrient. And the same way that we'd utilise a herb is that we look at what does that nutrient do? does that person do I need that thing. And so we've been operating in that way for nutrition and herbal therapeutics for a long time. But when it comes to bacteria, we've just had this really very broad approach. So if you just went to your health food store, perhaps it would be what you needed. And perhaps you would have an effect, but perhaps also not. So really, where we're wanting to what we're, well, what my role is, as an educator is to inform practitioners laypeople alike, that we really want to be having as much as possible, more specifically informed selection of what strains of bacteria do we need, or what even if we don't, as a, as a layperson, we might not want to know the individual strains that's a little bit nerdy, isn't it, but maybe we're recognising that there are particular scenarios that we will need bacteria for and then opting for it that way. So if we wanted to have like a general health effect of supporting the microbiome, then perhaps looking at, you know, the diverse fibres that we have in our diet. So the prebiotics and looking at bringing in fermented foods, all of those are incredibly therapeutic just to generally support microbial health. But if we're going for a supplement, a live bacteria supplement, then it's useful, I would consider it more useful and perhaps more ethical in terms of financial cost and all of that kind of thing to get something that's going to do the job that we need.

Peter Williams 04:34

So in effect, what we're doing it's the Ronseal Advert, isn't it you need, what you're trying to do is get a strain specific or a group of strains that do this specific job that you need to them do and is recognised, recognised in the science.

Yuwa Astor 04:49

exactly, precisely. And I think that you know, when the way I inform students or lay people who I'm talking to, is that really what we're in this point where we know that all of the things that we do nutritionally naturopathically, from a functional medicine perspective, to support human cells, we do apply a very, you know, personalised approach to that. So it's really the same thing that we're doing for microbial cells is what we do for human cells.

Peter Williams 05:19

And I think the most important thing about that is, as I say, to, I've got a conference speech I'm going do on Saturday, but one of the slides is, given that we're more bacterial cells than human cells, a lot of the time people stay sick is because we don't treat the microbes. Maybe it's their microbes that are certainly unhappy. And if they're unhappy, then you will be unhappy. Absolutely. So okay, so we've got that we've got that clarified. Let's move on now. Because obviously, your company has done that, as you say, it's almost like a life course journey with regards to recommending products that may be helpful for for women as they go through their life course. So I jump in. And let's hear the story.

Yuwa Astor 06:07

So based on this premise, that we really as practitioners, and as laypeople who are really supporting our health, we're going to be doing stuff nutritionally, to support human cells, and also microbial cells, then there are general well products that could be for men and women alike. So we have products to support, gut health, gut integrity, immune support, but within that, I think AP are proudly representing and supporting women's health and are championing women's health and also research into women's health. And from that, we have focused on a few of the product formulations that are really targeting some of the most common ailments that women face. So if we're going through the life course, we can see things like, you know, from a from a girl, actually, I'm talking about women, but even a girl just starting menstruating. And we know that things like iron and iron insufficiency is, iron insufficiency and deficiency is incredibly common. Globally, it's one of the most worldwide the most common nutritional deficiencies, but even in developed nations, in the UK, in Europe, we see iron insufficiency across the board in children more so but also really highlighting girls as they start to menstruate. And then of course, around that time we'd be considering. I know that that was when I became a vegetarian in my in my mid teens, actually. So lots of you know, it's around about the same age where you'd be perhaps being a little bit more conscious about what it is that you're eating the ethics around food and animal welfare, and perhaps maybe even thinking about body composition. So it's a time when girls perhaps are altering their diet and actually looking at Iron considering that it has such an incredible impact systemically but you know, we'd maybe consider cognitive function, particularly in that developmental stage it's incredibly important. So throughout from iron status in, in in adolescence, we'd be looking, then the next category would be pregnancy. So preconception care and pregnancy would be another time when we'd really want to optimise iron status, because of course, there's a new baby being developed, there's a lot more vasculature that's, that's happening. So it's an incredibly common time for women to become iron insufficient, or overtly deficient typically, that's supplemented, certainly in the UK, you know, most pregnant women I've worked with would, would have been supplemented ie generally by the GP or would have been told at some point in their pregnancy that they're iron deficient and supplemented with an with the elemental iron, but we know that there's lots of issues with actual just taking iron lots of digestive issues, lots of reasons why people just don't complete it,

Peter Williams 09:07

I was gonna say on that is that that's consistently what we see in practice is that there's a lot of people who generally and I would think about the sort of the heavy menstruators as well, you know, it's almost like the transiently anaemic on a on a monthly basis. And over time, they become more and more at risk from that and then they're given a ferrous sulphate, generally from from the GP, I'd certainly not the GP's fault, but it's not a particularly well absorbed iron and tends to cause a lot of GI upset. So the majority of the people on that that I see just stop because it's just too much for you. It really messes their digestion up.

Yuwa Astor 09:50 
Exactly, exactly.

Peter Williams 09:53

Tip Oh, God, we're butting in, go for it

Yuwa Astor 09:55

On that point, so it messes subjectively the individual feels that their digestive system is messed up from taking the iron supplement. But we also know that actually, the microbiome is disrupted from taking an iron supplement because if it isn't being absorbed and it is really one of the triggers for dysbiosis, so it's actually compounding the problem and exactly as you said, in terms of heavy menstruators so if we're looking at even the journey of iron through a women's like we'd be looking at premenstrual, pregnancy and then something like fibroids, for example, the most common benign tumour for women, particularly around that perimenopause, or period, so one of the classic signs been metrorrhagia so heavy menstrual heavy blood loss. And so throughout a woman's life, we'd be really considering what throughout pre men, pre menopausal woman's life, we'd be really wanting to hone in on.

Peter Williams 10:56

And it's not just, I know we're going off track here. But it's just another classic example of give something to try and support one aspect that might not be working so well to cause another issue with with the iron. And I mean, again, that's that's the conundrum of medicine at the moment. So how does it work then? So we've got these specific bacterial strains. Do you want to just sort of brief us the simplicity of the mechanisms of how how these bacteria helpers with regards to helping, you know, iron deficient females or women? How does that how does it work.

Yuwa Astor 11:30

So in the product that we have, it's actually just a single strain of bacteria. It's one strain of the bacteria called Lactobacillus plantarus 299v. And you know how we spoke in that first podcast episode about the importance of strains. And perhaps use the example that in the activated probiotics range, we use several different versions of lactobacillus plantarum. And as we're talking about women's health, there'll be different strains of plantrum that are coming across and they do have different functions. So this strain, LP 299V, lactobacillus plantarum 299V is, is incredibly well studied plantarum strain with about I think around about 30 years of clinical evidence, and it is a really important strain just for digestive health. So we actually have it in another product that's for IBS. So really, things around pain and discomfort and irritation around the GI tract, this strain is supportive of so with what we've just been talking about from all of that digestive discomfort from taking iron supplementation, already, we can consider that that perhaps has a role in appeasing some of that. But additionally, this strain it really supports specifically in terms of its its role in iron absorption is that it's absorbed higher up in the GI tract. So in the duodenum so where iron is absorbed, and it does a number of different things, but iron more than all of the other minerals has a slightly more convoluted way that it actually enters into the bloodstream. So because iron has, I'm trying to think of doing it the most simplistic way, but I incomes in 2 different states. So we have an iron element that has, well we call it an FE three plus or an FE two plus, and it's constantly transitioning in its state, but only one form of that is absorbed into the body. So the FE two plus, or what we call the ferrous iron, is what's absorbed into the body. So to facilitate the transition from the that ferric iron, which we have in the diet, to the ferrous iron that's actually absorbed, easily absorbed into the body,we need a good acid environment. And so this particular strain of plantarum really supports the promotion of well supports the lowering of the pH in the in the digestive tract and supporting this shift in status to the more easily absorbable iron. So that's one thing that it does. Hopefully that was clear. And then the other thing that it does is that there are a few mechanisms that the body has, that well the cells within the GI tract have in terms of being able to take an iron and the reason for this is that it is actually although we need it, an excess amount of iron for the body is really quite damaging. It's what we call a pro oxidant. So there are quite a few different sort of checks and balances in place to make sure that the body just doesn't get a big wash of iron. So one of the things is basically there's a gatekeeper to the cell. And that allows Iron to enter from the digestive tract which even though when we take things in our mouth, actually the digestive tract is a tube. So nutrients in the tube of the digestive tract are still not officially in the body. So it has to enter into the cell of the digestive epithelium, the digestive tract, and then it has to enter out of the digestive cell into the bloodstream. And so the second function of LP299V, so the first function is that it promotes the most promotes iron being in the most absorbable state. The second function is that it basically facilitates the entry of iron from the what we call the intestinal lumen and from the tube part of the digestive tract and into the actual cells so that it can be transported into the bloodstream.

Peter Williams 15:47 
How cool is that

Yuwa Astor 15:49
Yeah, it is like it's really is kind of wild when you just like it's,

Peter Williams 15:55

I mean, I haven't had a chance to have a patient yet on this. But what makes sense to me is that, I mean, regardless of the, I mean, you'll see iron deficient anaemia a lot. So I see it quite a lot. I suppose the thing I think about I also regardless of the quality of the iron that you give you and I tend to, I'll tend to give them like a bisglycinate because it tends to be the most gentle and well absorbed. But even with that at reasonably high dosages you can get a few minor side effects. So what this immediately says to me is that you could probably even lower that dose again, because you've got another mechanism of action to help you absorb the iron. So I think that's

Yuwa Astor 16:34

precisely Yeah. And there's a really good body of evidence to use to suggest that high dose iron really isn't actually absorbed. What so one of the things I'm constantly saying to people is just because something is on the label of a product, just because you even put it in your mouth doesn't mean that it's actually in your body. It's not in the in the bloodstream, it's not going to the cells. And because iron has this very the body's really wary of access. And then of course, lots of different microorganisms use iron's, excess iron could be promoting problematic pathogenic bacteria overgrowth. So, with there's lots of research, even before looking at this biome iron product, there was lots of research suggesting that low dose, maybe even intermittent iron supplementation is much better than consistent high dose iron supplementation. So this product has just around four milligramme, just over four milligrammes of iron in it, and so that in and of itself as a complete product has been done, has been studied in trials on pregnancy, so shown to increase iron status in pregnant women. Another area that would be of interest for use also with athletes as well. So, you know, if there's endurance athletes, there can be some sort of microvascular tears and some microscopic blood loss. And so this has also been shown to support iron status there as well.

Peter Williams 17:58

Yeah, the athletes one's interesting because, particularly that I would probably say that more the endurance athletes, particularly runners, you can see, foot shock hemolysis, where basically because they're striking the ground ground so many times with their feet, they actually basically squash out all of the red blood cells in the foot and can get anaemic from it. Yeah. So I mean, that's just super cool, because I think what we're doing there it's very much a systems approach, isn't it is that you're reducing the risk of iron and just to be clear, again, it's like everything in life is that too little is no good. And too much is definitely no good. And look, I've got, I've got two sisters, Ali and Dawn how are you doing and hopefully you're listening. And they've both in the last few years, and our Ali is what our Ali is 58, I think, and our Dawn just turned 53. And in the last couple of years, they were both diagnosed with hereditary hemochromatosis. So we've got a major iron overload more so, our Dawn who's who's homozygous. And she's having it's a terrible time trying to get rid ofthe excess iron and, and as you said too much and just basically, you know, rusts you from inside out, it's basically what happens.So hang on there kids. Yeah, we'll get the levels down eventually. And we'll all feel a bit better. So that I mean, that's super cool, isn't it? As you say, I haven't had a chance to use the product yet. But it what it's done for me is that means I have a I have a what feels like a more systems based protocol. But also, there's almost like an added safety net in because you're always worried about giving someone iron. Yeah. Because as I said to you, you there's a sort of the goal they like well, with most things is the Goldilocks effect. And you know, particularly if the more dysbiotic particularly as there's other stuff there that you think, should I shouldn't I kind of cool that you can sort of sort of be able to integrate that. So that's cool. So we'll like that. And of course, the the key on this isn't it is that it's not guesswork, because it's been, it's been proven in studies to actually have have some beneficial effects. I think that's the other thing for everyone to consider is that many supplements just don't have the research on them from a point of view of scientific validity. So I just want to be clear on that. Is that Yeah, so, you know, I can think of several companies where they haven't actually validated their products in, in clinical trials. So and I think that's, that's where the nutraceutical world is moving to, which I think is great. But it's not that many companies out there that say, our product has been through trials, this is what it's telling us. We know it works. And here's all the research that goes with it.

Yuwa Astor 20:51

Exactly, exactly. And I think it's a really good standard in terms of with an industry like ours Pete, you know, we've both been well, I know you've been in the industry longer, but I've been in the industry long enough to see lots see just to see how big the growth is. And you see so many more and more and more products coming on the markets, often quite confusing. And that's one of the things I hear people remarking is like, oh, my gosh, I don't know what to take, there's this. And then there's this. And I always say to them, you have to check the company. It's not about just like, oh, this nutrient I've heard is really great. This herb is really great. This bacteria is really great. You have to check the company and check what the company is doing. There are so many steps in the manufacturing process that, again, what you have on the label may or may not actually be effective. So it is a big reason for me to be recommending or I just feel happy to be recommending a product that has so much scientific robustness.

Peter Williams 21:51

Yeah, I think you mentioned another point on that, which I comment to everyone who comes to see us is that is that it sort of digestion is a is an interesting thing, because I think most people think, regardless of the, well, I mean, a good diet, therefore I should, I should get everything out of my diet. And the reality is that your diet needs to be as good as you can make it. And then you've got to make the assumption that your digestion, absorption and assimilation is good, because most people's aren't. So regardless of the quality of the food that they're eating, you know, what you put in your mouth isn't what gets to the cells. And so I mean, when we see that time and time and time again, and and people are like, Well, why have I got to take all these supplements, because I go like that, because here's the test results that tell you you just not getting it from foods. So not only have we got to work on your digestion, we probably need to fill the gaps in for a period of time, well, we get try and get that better with with additional supplementation. So off track, of course there. So let's get back on to let's get back on to the newer products that you're doing. So again, we've covered we've covered the iron one, which I think is super cool, I think that'll get used a lot, I think it's got it, it's just got that real sort of safety aspect to it, where you might be able to sort of bring the iron dosages down. And so you can sort of mitigate risk on that. I love the idea of that. So what else are you are you clever people doing?

Yuwa Astor 23:16

So and keeping in theme with this women's health and women's health through the life course. And there's another product that I think is important to mention. And it's also been quite a big area of research. For the last few years, it's really looking at the vaginal microbiome and so specifically a female health product. And we Oh, it's just it's pretty mind blowing. It's really mind blowing the research in this area. Because I remember when I was studying, we were told, for example, that in utero, babies are sterile. And then now perhaps this is not really the case, we were told that so many different, you know, pockets and areas within the body were really, you know, there was no bacteria there. And then there was pretty much no information coming out about actually the vaginal microbiome. And I was also how I remember also being told that in terms of the urinary tract, there was also that there was no bacteria there as well. And now, as technology advances and research advances, and our knowledge is constantly expanding, we recognise that none of that, well It's no longer thought to be true because we have bacteria all over the place. So when the when we're thinking about the vaginal microbiome, and it really is quite impactful in terms of both vaginal health in terms of managing common common conditions, common infections, namely, Candida and BV, bacterial vaginosis, but also, the pattern and the balance of microorganisms vaginally in the female reproductive system really have quite a pronounced impact on conception and fertility and pregnancy outcomes and also the outcomes of the newborn. So it's a really beautiful, wonderful area to work with. And so we have a couple of products in this

Peter Williams 25:08

It's just multiple areas of improvement, aren't we? I mean, again, you know, even, you know, your your baby's immune system essentially starts coming through that vaginal canal. So the better the health of that the better potentially the health of baby literally kicking off their immune system. Exactly,

Yuwa Astor 25:26

exactly. And it's always been one of these areas I feel so passionate about working with with my clients is preconception care. So how is it that we're managing not just nutritional status before pregnancy, but also microbial status, because again, based on the research, we know that maternal health impacts not just the offspring, but for another word, again, when I was learning, it was for another two generations now we're at the point where it's perhaps even three generations. So it's an area with just humongous scope, just simply by you know, doing a few tweaks. And so we have this product called Biome Her, which has a what it has a few bits, not a solar bacteria screen, back to your product has a few different strains of bacteria. But the one that I'd say to what I guess, a couple to highlight, one is certainly lactobacillus crispatus. And Crispatus to us is, you know, thinking about talking about vaginal microbiome, then this is the one that the researchers have really explored in quite a lot of detail. And this is this, this is the bacteria species that's been shown to be most associated. So the presence of lactobacillus crispatus is most associated with good vaginal health as in lower rates of all sorts of infections actually, even some, you know, there's some studies around lowered sexually transmitted diseases by just a really good composition of this microorganism, which I when I first read it, I was just like, that completely blows my mind. And, but it makes sense, because when we're thinking about, say, the immune system, for example, the immune system is really about protecting our body, ourselves from any potential threat. And where the immune system is located is the first line of defence of the immune system is skin, and what we call the mucous membranes, or the mucous membranes of the digestive tract, which we're all really familiar with. But also the vaginal tract is a mucous membrane. And so one of the things when we think about mucous membrane health, it's like the integrity of the cell. So how closely connected are the cells but also specifically within the vagina, one of the protective mechanisms is it's a slightly acidic environment, which is why most girls or hopefully most will certainly in in terms of a communication that I'm aware of, were told not to wash with soap in the reproduct, in the in the vaginal area, because soap, of course, is just naturally it's not use of regular soap, because soap, by its nature is alkaline, and that's going to impact the acidity, the natural acidity of the vaginal tract. So a bacteria like lactobacillus crispatus is really associated with positive, positive vaginal health, because it really promotes good integrity of this mucous membrane. It promotes that as said, at that acidic environment, it kills other potential pathogens, lots of other things that it does.

Peter Williams 28:32
So to just reiterate, is because again, a lot of the women that come into our clinic, you know, so to just reiterate, is because again, a lot of the women that come into our clinic, you know, we see them they're sick, generally. And it's pretty obvious that microbiomes not doing as well, because they, you know, they've got gastrointestinal issues, IBS, they have BV, or they've got thrush, or they have persistent UTIs. And it's sort of giving you that, you know, certainly if you're if that sounds like you, and you're listening to this podcast, then I do think that's maybe a point of call to think about, is it the bacterial species that that I have in certain places that are maybe not performing as well as I would like? And

Yuwa Astor 29:14

I'll make a comment on that as well. Because of course, that there is already treatment for Candida BV UTIs, urine, urinary tract infections, there's treatments out there and there were cheap, cheap treatments, available treatments. But the thing that tends to happen with all of these conditions, and I've certainly seen it clinically, particularly with Candida and with urinary tract infections, is that there's this pattern of having been treated getting an infection, having the treatment is cleared, and then it comes back and then you get the treatment and then it's cleared and it comes back and women are just kept in this cycle of recurrent infection recurrent UTIs recurrently, the recurrent vulvovaginal candidiasis and so the naturopathic and functional or approach and it's particularly incorporating these bacteria is really one of the things that the research has shown us is that it actually just breaks that cycle because we're working really at the root to address address this dysbiotic. State. Yeah,

Peter Williams 30:16

no, I get, I mean, as I said to you, they get into a vicious cycle that never works, you know, it's a little bit, it's a little bit like treating IBS with antibiotics. And don't get me wrong, the antibiotics may really do a good job, but three to six months later, you're back in the same position. And almost sort of the longer you do that, the more difficult it is, because the more and more things are getting out of line. So it's classical root root cause I suppose the only downside to it. It's not a downside. It's just that it takes a while to repopulate and get get get everything organised. And so I think you've got to make it really clear to people to say, look, you know, this is absolutely the way we do root cause. But it's because it's not a medication, when we're either absolutely just killing the hell out of everything. It's, it's subtle. It'll take time to build up. But you know, but if we never do that we're always going to be in this vicious cycle.

Yuwa Astor 31:11

Yeah, yeah. But I think also the one of the benefits of probiotic supplementation, and this refers back to your first question, when we started this conversation, when you said, Oh, if I just went to the health food shop and bought a product, because the probiotic supplements and not all the live bacteria supplements from from activated probiotics, probiotics perspective, we don't believe that these live bacterial strains are directly repopulating our own bacteria or you know, our own microbiota. So what takes time is yes, those shifts because of where we're changing the diet, we're changing our lifestyle, we're having more sleep, all of those things that are really going to start shifting our commensal bacteria. But whilst we're doing that, we actually see that we can have pretty quick symptomatic relief simply by taking these live bacteria supplements because they're working to address the issue, there whilst everything else Is happening, as well. So I think it's really nice to know that, yes, root cause medicine takes longer, but there are things that we can do in the meantime, to actually bring quite quick symptomatic relief. And

Peter Williams 32:21

I think this is a really important point, because probiotics do not repopulate your own microbiome there almost there. As I say, it's like you've just brought in a whole army of police women to to clear up trouble in the area that you want it to clear up whilst you're all trying to help yourself less stressed, you know, maybe just eating the right foods, etc. better sleep so that your own microbiome can can sort of go to work to get itself better without any intrusion. Really. So yeah. So it's a crucial point. Because again, as far as I remember the literature, we're looking at maybe about two weeks for a probiotic to hang around before you're pooping out.

Yuwa Astor 33:08

Yeah, so it varies, depending on strains it does there is and that's why, again, when we're focused on strains, because some of them some of the research, we can see that there still affects several weeks after cessation of the product and others, it's actually after a few days. So it does depend on the strain but yes, we know that, that the live bacteria supplements, they're transient, so they're always gonna be transient. And that's why when we're going for a product and we're buying it, it really just makes more sense to know what we want it for what job we want it to do. We there's a colleague of mine that mentions it like this, that almost like the live bacteria, almost like renovators, we invite into the house, do this job, I need the kitchen, you know, this area fixed. And then you they come in, they fix it, and then they clear out. But if we kind of like don't know what in our house needs fixing and when we just kind of go outside and go like go I need some kind of like labourer for some kind of I don't know what sort of job that's kind of like the vagueness that when we're just going randomly for for, you know, general probiotics. So we really do want to be more specific with that.

Peter Williams 34:18

And that doesn't mean to say the probiotic you get randomly isn't going to do a good job, but the chances are, it's less likely to do the job that you want it to do unless you've got the strain specifics. Okay, so if I was a woman and listening to this, I'd be pretty chuffed I think ok so we've got a we've got I've got some big things here again, I see a lot of a lot of anaemic women, and particularly people, those unfortunate ladies who really do have a heavy cycle and bleed quite heavily. So you know, again, it's almost like a transient transient anaemia for some of them, bless them, and you know, they're literally in that cycle for years on end. And then we've just say we've we've sort of covered the vaginal microbiome and we've got Understanding that generally the lactobacillus group and in particular crispatus is sort of one of the key microbes that keeps the pH down. And you know, as I say, it sort of really drops the pH because dropping the pH kills pretty much all pathogens in that side and generally keeps everything healthy there. What's next?

Yuwa Astor 35:21

So this where if we're continuing through the life course when we get to that sort of well not perimenopause, but early menopause or stage and early to mid menopause or stage, and then we would be thinking about bone health. And I was hesitant to say, then we'd be thinking about bone health, because actually, we want to be thinking about bone health. You know, right from the start, we want to be thinking about bone health all of our lives,definately not just when we get to that postmenopausal phase. So hopefully, we've got good musculature and good bone health, but we know that oestrogen has a protective effect all over the body. Because we have oestrogen receptors all over the body. We have oestrogen receptors in the brain, we have oestrogen receptors in our skin and our cardiovascular system, and also within our digestive system. And so under the influence of diminished oestrogen in the state of being postmenopausal, there are changes that happen within the GI microbiome that basically through without getting too technical impact, the balance of bone been being built up and broken down. So bone isn't static. It is, you know, it is a living tissue. So it's constantly throughout our life being built up and broken down. But we know that a natural age associated decline happens anyway, you know, post 40, for male and female, but around about 50. So 51, being the the average age for menopause, it can be quite a steep decline for women in terms of their bone mineral density, so they can lose quite a lot of bone. And if they haven't, if a woman hasn't already been a pretty high peak levels of bone density when it comes to being to the menopause. And under the influence of less oestrogen, this steep dive in steep reduction in bone mineral density can lead to osteopenia. And then of course, osteoporosis and all the complications that we see around that in terms of fracture risk. And then in terms of morbidity and mortality actually associated with that, which I think when we just look at some of those, some of that's the research around all the statistics around mortality associated with fracture risk, like it really, it's incredibly shocking.

Peter Williams 37:46

I think it's, I think over 60, I think falls are the lead one of the leading causes of death. So it's an sort of my Instagram posts are all about, all about giving you exercise to try and keep you try and keep that sort of flexibility, mobility and strengthen those legs and bones. And, you know, essentially, that's why I do things in different angles and different positions, because those bones are very dynamic. And they need to be twisted and turned and have stresses put on them all the time just to try and hold them together. Because if you don't, I mean, I think if we've learned anything from the astronaut research, you take gravity away, you don't load your bones, they they start to crumble very quickly.

Yuwa Astor 38:30

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So this is a big, it is a big thing, when we look at the statistics, and I'd invite anyone that's listening. If you're not, you know, convinced by just just have a little Google search about some of the stats in the UK or wherever it is that you're listening from. And it is genuinely, I think it's a really big concern. And so, ideally, we want to be thinking about it all through our lives, so that we are in peak bone, bone and muscle density actually, throughout our lives. But if whatever stage we find ourselves in, we have seen that there are, well there's basically research around three particular strains of bacteria, which it was a long term study, it's a multicenter study, you know, serve three different three different research centres. And over the course of the year, this particular formulation, so we activated Probiotics have the product called Biome Osteo. So osteo related to bone that contains these three specific strains of bacteria. So two different two different strains of lactobacillus
called HEAL9, HEAL19 and a lactobacillus paracasei 870:2 particular strain. So three strains of bacteria were shown over the course of the year to reduce the amount of bone mineral density loss in close to 300 women and I just find that incredibly shocking. I find that wow, how who knew I do So

Peter Williams 40:00

I think I think this is it, isn't it? I think the key on this is that you just get this idea of just how influential but to your bacteria are, from a point of view, there's nothing that they don't touch. We're just not aware of a lot of it at the moment. We're just, we're just on catch up. I mean, how the hell can three strains of bacteria do that? I mean, so what's the mechanism for that?

Yuwa Astor 40:23

Well, the mechanism, the proposed mechanism is because of the oestrogen receptors, as I mentioned, at the start, we have them all over the body to brain skin, also within the GI tract. So that shift in oestrogen within that, that within the GI tract, or the oestrogen reception within the GI tract, creates a state of dysbiosis. So an imbalance in the gut bacteria. And then this more pro inflammatory in pro inflammatory status triggers the promotion of osteo class and osteo class that those cells that break down bone. So by bringing in these three strains, it's been shown to in the proposed mechanism, so it's not very clearly elucidated. So it is a proposed mechanism, because as you said, or so much of this is really, really very new research. So all the researchers can do is have the hypothesis as to what's happening, but that's where it's considered to be the actual point of intervention is that it's modifying? I, I'm trying not to use more technical terms, but there are and I can tell you about it afterwards Pete but there are particular mediators that have been or particular compounds that mediate bone mineral density loss that are directly impacted by the micro organisms.

Peter Williams 41:39
Okay. But kind of cool.

Yuwa Astor 41:42

Yeak, I think this is one that really just blew my mind, because I was like, how on earth like, I really wouldn't have made that intuitive jump. And what's also been amazing is that I've heard quite a lot of feedback from several different practitioners who have shown who've told me that they've seen osteoporosis actually reversed in their clients. So there's one in mind, she said that she saw that reversed in three of her clients, I personally have seen had a client that was diagnosed with osteopenia. So with, she had a heel fracture, diagnosed with osteopenia. And then so which is the stage before you get to be overtly osteoporotic. And this was reversed. So after the two years with a second DEXA scan, then that she was no longer osteopenic. And of course, the beauty of it is that we're not really recommending. So with bone health, only take a Mascia. Of course, that's not the way we as practitioners, we're looking at a whole range of different things. And of course, we're looking at nutrient status and vitamin D, and physical activity and all of those things. And that's certainly what the approach I took to this clients, I'm not claiming that just this product helped to reduce osteopenia in my client, but this is definitely part of the part of the overall

Peter Williams 43:00

Well it's part of the jigsaw isn't it? I think this is the point you know, it's, you know, what, what techniques can we have that we can utilise that that may be beneficial for us and, you know, have a bit of robust science for us to say, Yeah, this is worth a go. I mean, I think anything in this industry, it's like, you can't know for sure. But if the science is there, and it makes sense, then you don't have anything to lose from it.

Yuwa Astor 43:25

Yeah, absolutely. So sorry, go ahead. No go on, you say. So no, I was just about to say, I think in the same way that when I do education for other healthcare practitioners, so at the moment, I'm doing a lot of work with osteopaths and, you know, their their modalities about physical manipulation, predominantly, but I mentioned that in every human endeavour, whether we're focused on mental health or physical health or whatever, if we're not exploring nutrition, then there's a component that we're missing that because human beings respond to nutrition, we're built on nutrition. And similarly though, if we are nutritionists, if we're not exploring the microbiome, there's definitely on we're not manipulating them that we're missing something there because every part of our human experience, mental health, physical health, every aspect of our physical health and well being the micro organisms are being shown to play a part in that

Peter Williams 44:19
totally agree with that. Yeah. You're not going to tell there's anymore is there?

Yuwa Astor 44:25
um, well, in terms of the overt women's health products, like those are the ones and then we also have one called Biome prenatal that specific around. So

Peter Williams 44:35

let's do that. Because, you know, as I say, it's a it's a woman's episode. And, you know, I think anyone who's listening to this, it's like, wow, this is kind of cool. I mean, how can you? I mean, it just goes to show the power of them and but you know what, they've been around for billions of years. So nothing surprises me with regards to bacteria. They're so damn clever and so cool as well if you get them on your side, so let's have this last one.

Yuwa Astor 45:01

I like that statement. They're so cool. If you get them on your side, I love that. So Biome Prenatal is a formulation is for preconception and that perinatal period. So preconception conception into early postpartum period. And just there's a couple of strains in there that I think are really quite interesting. But again, we have the Crispatus, as we mentioned, so around pregnancy, some women, we can see changes in terms of their vaginal microbiome and perhaps more susceptible to infections. And as I mentioned about crispatus, supporting conception in an opt in, so even in some ivy centre, IVF centres they've been inoculating the needle with crispartum showing that actually, they see much better outcomes in terms of viability. So in that formulation, though, we have in addition to the strains I already mentioned, we have Lactobacillus rhamnosus, GG, which, again, has been really well studied it's considered to be the most well studied probiotics in and we have it in quite a few different products. But prenatally, it's been shown to, particularly in that latter part of pregnancy has been shown to reduce the risk of infants being born and having hypersensitive reactions. So we know that things like eczema and asthma and incredibly common for, for in infancy and in childhood, and for the baby, there are different strains that can modify that immune response to reduce eczema and asthma. But prenatally, particularly for if a if a woman knows in my I have or in my family in my bloodline, those hypersensitivity, so there are allergies or in your in the male line in the partners line, or if it's same sex couples in that sort of from the sperm donor line, but there's allergies, then actually it can be useful to explore using this product and help modify the chances that the baby would be would have hypersensitive reactions. And also, there's a couple of strains in here that really just support nutritional status for the mother and support her metabolic health as well. So that's Biome prenatal, just a quick and mentioning just because I know we're running out of time, those are the overt products in the range for women's health. But there's one that personally that I use quite a lot in my practice, which is focused on women's health. And that's Biome Lift. And I use that a lot in the peri menopausal and many menopausal range, because this is a product that's working on the gut brain axis. And it's a product's been shown to promote sleep support, sleep and mood and various different effects. And so I've definitely seen for quite a few women in that perimenopause or transition where emotions are going or, you know, there's a lot of variation in terms of emotions and variations in sleep quality as well. That's been improved, quite significant.

Peter Williams 48:12
And how does that work? Is that is that because the bacterial strains that you give in

communicating with the gut, but also communicating up towards the brain? How does it work?

Yuwa Astor 48:23

Yes. So it is a gut brain, it's via the gut brain axis in terms of again, it's one of those areas where it's proposed mechanisms. So there are a couple of different proposals in terms of maybe it's working through the serotonin pathway to improve that, but it's certainly it's, the focus is on. Yeah, via the gut, it's impacting the nervous system. And when we're thinking about just the other day, I was listening to a neurosurgeon, just talking about a lot of the cognitive and also affective emotional shifts that happen with women, postmenopausally can be associated with the, with the with poor sleep quality. And so if we are doing something to actually support sleep, and this is why this you know, in this case, it's a via the, the vagus nerve and the gut brain access with these bacteria. But if we can support sleep, then we're supporting both the impact and the benefits of of slow wave sleep, lightweight, light sleep at the start of the evening. And then REM sleep, which is really promoting all of the kind of cognitive restorative components. So it was interesting for me when I was listening to listening to this and doing a little bit more reading, and as I yeah, I can further understand why Biome Lift actually, for this population would actually be would have some utility. So the latter part was my own personal reading the actual Yeah, the actual study On biome Lift was was done not specifically on postmenopausal women, which is why I kind of framed it that way. That's what I use. So the study was done on a mixed population. So it's, it's, you know, it's would be a product that you'd use for, you could use it for teens, you could use it for men, you could use it across the board, and specifically, was shown to improve them sleep outcomes, moods, specifically things like anger, as well, and actually were interested and stress as well.

Peter Williams 50:31

All right, wow. What will what will we find out next? You know, this is I think this is the, it, I like doing these podcasts, because actually, you know, you realise just how little you do know, and how complicated it is. And if you're not dealing with someone's bacterial communities, you're missing more than half of the picture. And I think all of this research is really showing the power of just some incredibly tiny little things, but they have the capacity to change a lot. And they've been around much longer than we have. So they've had plenty of time to jump and learn and grow. And I think it's, it's kind of cool. All

Yuwa Astor 51:16

right, we evolved, we have, you know, we as human beings, we have evolved with this bacteria. And so, in the same way that you know, so many, so many components of us, as human beings actually hasn't changed in millennia, brain and neural circuits haven't changed in millennia, our gene pathways, you know, an area that I know, you're very much involved in, hasn't changed in, you know, an, you know, in millennia, or whatever period of time. And so, this is just part of this kind of move as naturopathic and functional medicine practitioners to just really come back to that, that ethos of we are connected with nature. And, you know, we have the science now that really shows what the tradition has always been. So it

Peter Williams 52:03

really does, because, you know, a lot of the I mean, I suppose the the floss stuff that you care a lot actually gets more and more validated in the science and yeah, you know, like, okay, all right, well, let's just say I'm happy if there's a paper there that shows it and yeah, there is. So yeah. So listen to granny a bit more, I think, on all of this, you absolute pleasure. I think, as I say, I think most of the people who are listening to to my stuff is predominantly females of a predominant it's usually 40 to 70. So I think they will be scribbling a lot of this off this podcast. So thanks so much that were just on the hour. So really appreciate that. I'm going to stop recording and hey, I will have you on soon as well. I'm sure there's some other brilliant stuff that you've got some information on, that'd be really helpful.

Yuwa Astor 52:52
And of course to that, thank you so much for the invite Pete and thank you all for listening.

Y

And of course to that, thank you so much for the invite Pete and thank you all for listening.

Cheers Yuwa..