From Omega‑6 Myths to Gut–Brain Science: Using Fats Therapeutically

In this episode of  Functional Medicine Bite Sized, I sat down with Kayla Butera, International Educator for Body Bio, to explore the often-misunderstood world of fats, fatty acids, and targeted nutraceuticals—without getting overwhelmingly technical.

There was lot's to cover and some of they key points we discussed were:

• Why both linoleic acid (omega‑6) and ALA (omega‑3) are essential
• How fatty acid quality, oxidation, and processing affect mitochondrial and cardiovascular health
• What “liposomal” should mean, why it’s often misused, and when liposomal delivery is worth the extra cost
• Why short‑chain fatty acid butyrate is a key “gift” from a healthy microbiome

Download to listen in and hear all of this and more. 

Links mentioned in this episode:

https://bodybio.co.uk/

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Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Fatty acids, omega threes, omega sixes, linoleic acid, alpha linoleic acid, balance oil, phospholipids, cell membrane, inflammation, neurodegeneration, butyrate, gut health, liposomal delivery, detoxification, cognitive support.

SPEAKERS

Peter Williams, Speaker 1, Kayla Butera

Peter Williams  00:03

So welcome everyone to new function medicine, bite sized we're going to be talking to Kayla Butera today. She is the International educator for, actually, one of the product companies that we use, called body bio, these really nice products, particularly around the fats. And really, that's what the subject is going to be about today. It's sort of like an overview of fatty acids and some specialized fats as well, but we're going to try and do it, Kayla, please, without too much technical to it, because it can get a bit mind blowing. So welcome.

Kayla Butera  00:41

Thank you so much for having me

Peter Williams  00:43

in functional medicine associates Kayla's one of our favorites at the moment, because she did take us out for lunch a couple of weeks ago. So me, Dede and Sue were treated to a really lovely lunch in the central central London restaurant. So thank you for that. That was really generous. So before we start, we always, it's always nice to hear the story behind the person that we're chatting to. So can you want to brief? Because how old are you? I mean, I'm 24 right? You're really young, aren't you? Oh, my God, young. You're not to be my daughter. There you go. Why don't you just give us a brief? Because you're, you're quite a bright cookie. Clearly, when we have conversations, you know what you're talking about. So why don't you give us your background? Yeah, sure. So you ended up here in London.

Kayla Butera  01:29

Oh, it's, it's a really long story. I feel like I have to go back to my my own health struggles when I was growing up. I had stomach aches, and I finally went to an integrative medicine doctor who considered all aspects of my health, you know, beyond the physical, looking at emotional relationship, academic. And he had such a big impact on my life that I knew that for me, it was integrative medicine or bust, and that's really just looking at all different types of modalities at all different levels. So at university, I studied biology and nutrition. I was dead set on becoming a medical doctor, but I had my own revelations. I studied Qigong, I became an instructor. I collected all of these different tools in my toolkit, and the way that I landed at body bio was actually while I was working as a medical assistant at an integrative medicine practice. My us boss had come at the time, and she was talking about PC and eLIGHT and some of these products. And my mom was suffering from chronic fatigue and pots symptoms, and so I was always on the lookout for her. And I was like, maybe you might want to look into look into PC, and you might want to look into this. And those alongside cranial sacral therapy just transformed her life. So then, when I decided, quite interestingly, like, two weeks before graduate, my graduate program was going to begin, I decided to withdraw, and the first place that popped into my head was body bio, and so I reached out. Two weeks later, I was on the phone with the CEO, and it just kind of unfolded this way, and eventually I got asked to be moved to London. But that's, that's my, my story in a snippet,

Peter Williams  03:21

sort of, we've, we've been using your products now for about five or six years, I would say, if you've been a sort of, you know, quite you're quite a specialist company, aren't you? So that's what we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk about, you specialize in in fats, and some fats that we're probably not aware of. So, and obviously, we use your products quite a lot. You've got a very famous product, the PC one that we'll talk about, that we use quite a lot. You've actually got some really nice, what we call short chain fatty acid products as well. So I will talk about those today, because I think again, expanding that for the general public. Can we just start with basics? So can we go because the if you listen to social media, it's all about omega three fatty acids. And whilst they're crucially important, we can talk about the steps that we go through, through from that perspective. And sometimes we miss out on both, if you like, the top of the fatty acid cascades, which, you know, fatty acids sort of almost like birth of a. Fatty Acids Don't be from the top, and they do this through enzymes that allow them to happen. And we have the CO factors like B vitamins and magnesium that all help this flow down. But it really starts at the top, and on the Omega threes, it starts with linoleic acid, and on the Omega sixes, it starts with alpha linoleic acid. And you do a you do a sorry, alpha linoleic acid for the Omega threes, or linoleic acid for the Omega sixes, and you do a compact one of your strongest products is the combined alpha linoleic and linoleic. Acid, there's a lot of sort of inappropriate, I think, talk particularly on on the sixes, but can we talk about both of those, particularly with regards to maybe chronic disease risk, and particularly, probably most of the work that I do, which is the cardiovascular aspects, because they tend to get pushed down more for the fish oils, but they both have really good cardiovascular properties to them. So can you just briefly talk about why you combine a product and what it's all about in layman's terms? If we can?

Kayla Butera  05:36

Yeah, absolutely. So the product that you're talking about is our balance oil. And what that is is a four to one ratio of linoleic acid to alpha linolenic acid, so six and three. And the reason why that ratio was established was because there's this group of scientists, and all they did was look at these essential fatty acids and playing around with the ratio. So when you hear the term essential fatty acid, what that means is fatty acids that we don't synthesize ourselves, that we have to obtain from our diets. And so ALA and linoleic acid, la are essential fatty acids. So anyways, these groups of scientists, what they found was that the four to one ratio was optimal for improving memory, improving learning tasks, increasing seizure thresholds, improving thermo regulation, pain thresholds, all of these different variations. And so when it came to creating our product, we follow this four to one ratio and we're sourcing the fats from two really pure sources of flax seeds and safflower seeds, and we're using a cold press method. We're not filling it with hexanes or miscellaneous solvents. We're just really keeping it very clean. And I think a lot of the backlash that omega sixes get is because the form in which most people are consuming, it is through these rancid, oxidized seed oils that you encounter at fast food restaurants, and honestly, restaurants in general, that have deleterious effects.

Peter Williams  07:21

Okay, can we just go back? Because these are plant sources, aren't they? This is the interesting thing, as well as the alpha linoleic acid, predominantly flax and walnuts would be a really good example of that. What would be the best sources on omega sixes? And again, I think the Omega six story is particularly blown out from a point of view, it's all the question of the quality of the oils that you choose, rather than a blanket choice on that, that would be correct,

Kayla Butera  07:47

wouldn't it? Yes, absolutely. And I think that goes across many different food groups beyond even fats. But when you're looking at omega six, that linoleic acid in particular, the richest and most saturated source of that is safflower but you can also find it in hemp seeds. And a lot of foods that already occur have the ALA, naturally occurring, like walnuts, also have linoleic acid. It's just at a lower level than ALA.

Peter Williams  08:15

So and with a four to one ratio, you have a product that is encouraging Omega six intake, which, again, if you believed everything on social media would be completely the wrong thing to do, but I can clarify, certainly, over the last 10 years, I do a lot of fatty acid panel testing, and it's literally the consistent picture that I see is that people seem to be supplementing on omega threes, and yet, when we look at the whole pathway on omega sixes, they're just not getting enough, and that has problematic effects for that whole fatty acid balance. So I think what we're saying on here is that don't ignore them, try and get them from good sources, from that

Kayla Butera  08:58

exactly, and a really interesting aspect of linoleic acid, in particular, that I think gets skipped over is when we zoom into the mitochondria, which everybody knows as the powerhouse of the cell, the main phospholipids in one of its inner membranes is, sorry, the main fatty acids in one of its inner membranes is actually linoleic acid. So that omega six. So when you're completely avoiding Omega sixes or getting the wrong types, you're really compromising the integrity of the mitochondria and therefore its capacity to improve energy. Yeah, and great point. Yeah. In regards to heart health, absolutely, cardiac tissue is one of the most mitochondrial rich tissues there is. So it's really important all the way down to that little level.

Peter Williams  09:48

Yeah, so and again, backs on what we see. So when we're looking at fatty acid panels, we literally see the same thing, not enough linoleic at the top. And then, of course, it can't burst down into all the other. And all the other intermediates, like dgla, which is incredibly anti inflammatory as well. So we're sort of missing a bit with that. And hopefully this sort of product and this sort of conversation will change people around. Can we move to omega threes? Can we talk about, obviously, there are plant sources that come from alpha linoleic acid. Where do they come from? But we know as we age, that the sort of pathway doesn't work as well. Hence the reason why a lot of the advice is start taking fish oil. So can you just define that a bit more?

Kayla Butera  10:31

Yeah, sure. So if you can imagine, you have ala at the top, and then the arrow, there's two arrows going down. One of them goes to EPA, the other goes to DHA. And EPA and DHA are what is in that fish oil category. Now, the conversion rate down though, from ALA to EPA is quite low. It's about five to 10% from ALA to DHA, it's anywhere from less than 1% to 5% so the conversion rate is quite low, and that's why it's in why it's important to supplement or eat at both that ala level and EPA and DHA level. So it's not a question of one over the other, but it's really about both.

Peter Williams  11:16

So best sources probably flax, walnuts, nuts nuts and seeds are always good on that side

Kayla Butera  11:22

exactly, and then on the EPA and DH side, DHA side, going for that fatty mackerel, that that salmon, like you know, your sockeye salmon caviar, if possible, And those really rich sources of EPA and

Peter Williams  11:42

DHA, don't we use the don't we use smash as the thing to do? Salmon, anchovy, sardines. What's the other one?

Kayla Butera  11:53

Sardines? And is it herrings?

Peter Williams  11:59

Yeah, but a lot of that again. So we also know there are some ratios that are associated with cardiovascular health with regards to fatty acids, don't we? And we often, certainly with the work that I do, because omega threes are incredibly anti inflammatory. We want to make sure that they are always at the level they would want, and we do what we call an Omega three index. So we're looking at the concentration of omega threes within the sample that you've taken. And we're really optimizing that at eight to 12 grams. That's where we think the optimal level is, particularly for cardiovascular disease. But it's not that easy to get people to that from eating that from foods I've never seen it, and so we additionally supplement with again, can you talk about because obviously, your products aren't cheap, but this is, again, comes back to one of the best arguments for high quality nutraceuticals, is They're not cheap, because you have to have an incredibly pure source, and then you have to have a a large what's the words I'm looking for? Manufacturing sort of strategy that means that you're being delivered with what you think you should be getting, and there's nothing added. So can you talk about that process a bit more, because it will give people a better understanding of why you have to pay twice as much for a certain product than something else. Yeah.

Kayla Butera  13:30

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, working at a medical clinic, I definitely had my fair exposure to different companies and different methods of making things so and I saw also all the hard work that patients put in right in making their lifestyle amendments. And when you're taking supplements, you want to make sure that it's not from a company that cuts corners.

Peter Williams  13:55

Yeah, let me. Let me just come in on that, because I think this is one of the most important things, is a lot of the time supplementation doesn't work, and you're gonna have patients spending a lot of money on supplementation, and it doesn't work because the quality is not good enough. So you know, they could be spending 200 quid a month on supplements, and it's just not working for them, and that is because the quality is just not good enough. So unfortunately, again, is that? Number one, they are not magic bullets. But number two, there's always a chance that they're just not going to work with you, even though you're paying out for decent products. So can you just give us an example of how your company develops the purity, if you like?

Speaker 1  14:38

Yeah, sure. So we could take resolvin, for example. So resolving is our EPA and DHA source. So we're still a family owned and operated company. Most of our products are still made in house in New Jersey. In fact, when I was living there, I could literally leave my office and see how our phospholipid complex was made. But the. Jess, who's the granddaughter of the founder, and Brad, Is this her husband and CEO, they will personally visit the facilities to understand, okay, is this up to our level of standards? And so that was the case with resolve in which is sourced from herring row in Norway. There's no flash freezing involved. The processing plant is literally right next door to where they cultivate the fish or the roe, and our resolvent is in a particular ratio, three to one ratio of DHA to EPA. So we're preserving it in its naturally occurring form, which is a phospholipid what you might find in other fish oils, particularly ones that have higher EPA than DHA, is that the fish oil has been chemically manipulated to go from its naturally occurring form into a triglyceride or other different formats that make it harder for the body to metabolize and actually use these ingredients. So what could have started off as a great, you know idea of providing EPA and DHA, or providing these important fatty acids in the processing and in the cultivation of it can actually lead to a product that's rancid, oxidized, and not only not working, but potentially doing harm.

Peter Williams  16:23

So can we go over that again? Because, again, I think, with regards to the supplement fatty acid industry, these can you explain the properties in a way that we understand that they can be damaged quite quickly? So, you know, we're trying to offset that at all stages. So can you just go into that? Because that is really an important figure, from buying a really cheap brand to buying a really expensive brand, yeah,

Kayla Butera  16:54

so particularly when we're talking about EPA and DHA, these are poly unsaturated fat. So they have all these kinks that make them really prone to damage. And so when these kinks get exposed to chemical solvents or heating, which oftentimes they do, they can become damaged and rancid. And so they're still going to slot into your cell membranes, just as functional ones would, but they're going to be acting radically different. So by preserving these fatty acids in its naturally occurring form, also having practices, not only with manufacturing, but also transportation and trusted distributors and trusted storages of all of these products is really important for its end efficacy.

Peter Williams  17:49

So in many ways, you're probably making a product that's twice as expensive. It's probably, it's probably costing you all of that in all of those processes to to deliver it. Yeah. So look, I think there's a really important point, from a point of view of you do fundamentally pay for what you get. So unfortunately, high quality supplementation is expensive. I mean, there's, there's no point. There's not suggesting that it isn't, but what you're likely to get is what it should be saying on the tin. And for a lot of a lot of supplementation, that's just not what you're getting. Yeah, can I can I go on? We even say something?

Kayla Butera  18:25

Kyla, I was going to say something, yeah, because something that I've come across quite a bit is, you know, when you look at the term liposomal, it's actually an unregulated term, so a lot of companies can be saying that they're liposomal, but it's not actually the case. And when I say liposomal, what that should mean is that whatever substance you're saying like liposomal vitamin C, it should be encapsulated in these things called phospholipids. And phospholipids are really important for our cell membrane and incorporating and delivering these nutrients. So other, you know, it's an unregulated term, so that's also something to be mindful of, is that not everything is what it's it says to be, and unfortunately, a lot of consumers do have to do their own independent due diligence and almost get a science degree to figure this out.

Peter Williams  19:20

So you're just coming up with too many things that are important for us. So not all supplement delivery is the same. So, and we think probably the highest efficacy of delivery is liposomal delivery, if it's proper liposomal So can you just explain the difference between that and the difference between sometimes? So we will give patients who have gut issues more likely to give them liposomal supplements. They may cost a little bit more. But we're what we're trying to do by that is give them a better chance of the liposomal delivering what we need to deliver, rather than having them to go through the GI tract. So can you just expand on that a little bit more? Because it's a really

Kayla Butera  20:15

important point. Sure. So again, when we think of the word liposome or liposomal it basically means that nutrient or substance supplement is encapsulated in these phospholipids. And actually encapsulation in true phospholipids should also protect the substance from heat, also the body's heat. When you when a liposomal product works correctly. It actually bypasses the gut, so it's not going to be broken down into the gut. When let's just take vitamin C, for example, we'll compare like normal vitamin C to A liposomal vitamin C. A normal vitamin C will get broken down into the gut, and at higher levels, can actually cause gastric distress. You know, once you go past that three, four, you know, gram threshold with a liposomal vitamin C, though, it's actually going to be absorbed by a little bit farther down in the gut, in the small intestine. And with that type of delivery, you can actually go up to 10 grams of vitamin C. So in situations of you know, where you need that acute help, a liposomal technology could be really helpful. This is not going to wear and tear on the gut. I also like to think of liposomal delivery, as you mentioned, for those people that do have those gut sensitivities, but also anyone who's at an energy deficit, because when something gets broken down in the gut, it sometimes is up to the body to reconstitute it into what the end goal was, right? So like, for example, with phosphatidyl choline, which is a phospholipid, if it's not in a liposomal form, it's going to get broken down in the gut right away, into all of its like ingredients. It's almost as if, you know, you take a cake and then in the gut it goes back into flour, sugar, eggs, but what you really wanted was the cake at the end. Yeah, yeah. It's a way of also meeting your body, maybe where it's at. Yeah, those are some of the examples in which you can think of

Peter Williams  22:27

so ultimately, liposomal is probably better delivery, but it is a unregulated term. So again, usually price point is where you're going to be, and liposomal can be really expensive, so be careful what we're doing and hopefully get the right stuff for the right job, which in general is why having having advice from a well qualified individual therapist is is really where you go, because you end up probably saving quite a bit of money from that. Okay, so you did mention some specific terms. So it's called, it's SRMS, okay, which is select, my getting this right, selective resolving mediators. Is that right?

Kayla Butera  23:15

SPMs, specialized. Sorry, it's okay. There's a lot of acronyms in this world.

Peter Williams  23:24

SPN, sorry, not SRMS. It's been a long day already. And what this is, isn't it, is that we found within omega threes, there seems to be these almost a sort of another group of specialized acids that are even more good at really resolving inflammation, that's, that's, what are their roles? So can we specifically talk about that? Because obviously this is one of your products. It's probably that we use, and we tend to use this product when we're trying to get people over infections at the end. And we want really just a bit of a push, a little bit more of an anti inflammatory push. Can you explain it? Can you explain it in more in more detail? Sure.

Kayla Butera  24:04

So, like you said, these SPMs are basically metabolites shooting from EPA and DHA, actually mainly from that DHA side. And I like to think of them as inflammation Quenchers. So when our body has inflammation, it sends all of these different types of molecules to the site and tries to help resolve that inflammation. And so one of these SPMs is resolve in which is why our DHA is called that. But there's also different types of SPMs within our product and within, you know your oily fish that you're eating, like your your smash and so these will help calm that inflammation. They'll also help clear cellular debris without being immunosuppressive. So it's actually going to still support your immune system. It's not going to quiet it or numb it. But just help it actively resolve. And so like you mentioned, it's really helpful at the end of or like in these acute situations, some people like to use it for migraines. It's SPMs have actually been shown to be really beneficial for wound healing. So a lot of people will use it post op. There's so many different variations in which you can use SPMs or eat them, yeah.

Peter Williams  25:27

So what we're suggesting there is that we there is a sort of a group of metabolites that come from these omega threes that have a very specific role of trying to resolve that's why they get their name the inflammation or the inside. And we use that, again, not not cheap to buy, but generally seem to be quite effective. So something that, you know, in acute infection or towards the end, and we just need that little bit more sort of help to quench the fire of inflammation. We find these highly productive in something to take. What would you recommend? On, on, on dosage and duration of use on those?

Kayla Butera  26:11

Yeah, it really varies. So it depends on the person as all all things do, but within two soft gels, you get 450 milligrams of EPA and DHA combined. So in situations of inflammation or low EPA and DHA, you might consider doing six to eight capsules for two to three months and then switching to a maintenance dose of two to four capsules. But some other things, is there

Peter Williams  26:44

any, is there any developing evidence on specific conditions where SBM, SBM, seem to be doing a really good job?

Kayla Butera  26:52

Yeah, definitely. So I would say in autoimmune conditions, is one of the buckets that I'm reading a lot of interesting research, I mean, in ways that you wouldn't even think of so I mentioned earlier. It helps with wound healing, and that's not only externally, but internally as well. When you're considering situations like ulcerative colitis, right where there's some wear and tear in the gut lining, they also help tight junction assembly, which are basically these proteins that help seal your gut to make sure that the good things are staying in and the bad things are staying out. So autoimmunity is a really important category in which we see it helpful skin conditions like psoriasis, particularly with the higher ratio of DHA to EPA. And then thirdly, I would say in neuro degenerative just

Peter Williams  27:50

about to say that what are we seeing there? Because obviously DHEA is probably more important than EPA with regards to brain health. And given that neurodegeneration is very strongly inflammatory lead. What do we know with regards to SPMs on that side?

Kayla Butera  28:11

Yeah, so like you highlighted, DHA is actually the primary fatty acid found in your brain, but when you're talking about or thinking about SPMs, in particular, it helps with the removal of apoptotic cells or dead cells. So in cases of neuro inflammation and neurodegeneration, there's an aggregation of these apoptotic cells. It's SPMs are also going to be really important for modulate or lowering down the levels of some neurotoxic like glial cells and astrocytes. These are basically other types of brain cells that can, in cases of neurodegeneration, be compromised. And another facet, just like I like to zoom in to an area and then zoom out and think of other systems so SPMs even can improve insulin sensitivity, which we know is connected to brain health. There's all these different angles that you can look at because, and that's, I think, like the beauty of our bodies too, and nutrients in general, is that even though we like to associate one thing with another, like butyrate, just for gut health, the truth is, our bodies are so intelligent and can use these different nutrients in various ways.

Peter Williams  29:35

Okay, so that's probably, probably new to most people and the SPMs. Can we talk about PC, because this is, again, one of your products that you're noted for, yeah. Can we talk about what it is? Can we talk about its role in the body on a very basic level, and just dive down a little bit more from there?

Kayla Butera  29:57

Yeah, sure. So a little bit of story, though. On PC is that our founder was a biochemist at Kane, and he suffered from chronic fatigue 30 years ago before it was really a term. And so he actually started PC because

Peter Williams  30:13

of and what's its what's its full term? What's its full name?

Kayla Butera  30:17

Full term is phospholipid complex. Okay, so when we think of the cell, it has this border all around it, and that border is the membrane, and it's made up of this double layer of phospholipids, and our complex is Phosphatidyl coin, which is that outer layer, and then two other phospholipids, phosphatidyl choline, sorry, fossil fuel, et et al, Amin and Phosphatidyl and acetal that are found on the inner layer. So you're getting this spectrum of phospholipids with our complex and our membranes, I feel like oftentimes get overlooked, but they're really important for keeping the good in and getting rid of the bad. And as one of my favorite scientists, Bruce Lipton, says that they're actually the brain of the cell. So they're more than just this fence, but they're also this really smart network of deciding how things move inner cell to cell communication, intracellular communication in various aspects. And ultimately, you know, we're made up of 37 trillion cells, so 37 trillion and so they all deserve some support at that membrane level.

Peter Williams  31:39

Okay, so where would we get it, normally, from foods. What would be the most natural sources?

Kayla Butera  31:45

Yeah, some sources of food, sorry, some sources of phospholipids would be eggs, particularly in your egg yolks. You can also find them in soybeans and so these are and sunflower seeds have some Phosphatidylserine in them, which is another type of phospholipid. And our PC, our phospholipid complex, is derived from soy. The reason being, though, is because the phospholipid breakdown in soy is most similar to that which we find in our cell membranes. So it's kind of again, meeting the body where it's at.

Peter Williams  32:30

So where is it dominant applicability, basically from an overall health to a chronic disease. What have you guys learned as far as your product and where you are with the research on it? Yeah.

Kayla Butera  32:44

So interest on the research side, we are actually starting our own clinical clinical study looking at PC, so that's in the works. And we actually just have a study that recently came out finding that it had a high zeta potential, so basically supported the battery charge of the cell, the energy's own energy. But the ways in which we see PC really be applicable is is widespread. Again, when we think about our cell membrane, it's in contact with a lot of environmental stressors that can cause tears, can cause oxidation. And so if we have this fence, and now, all of a sudden, there's some breakages in that fence, again, things that are aren't meant to be coming in or coming in, and things that aren't meant to be going out are going out. And so our complex works by basically replacing those damaged phospholipids helping to maintain that cellular resilience and integrity. So the way in which we see these this mechanism then manifest at a physical level is, I would say, primarily with energy. And so many people will write and tell me about how they have less brain fog, more clarity. And again, it's about supporting that membrane, not only on the outside, but all of these other little organelles, or little parts of our cells that also contribute to overall energy production. So there's that. I mean, even

Peter Williams  34:20

can, I ask question on that? So when we're delivering fatty acids to people, so I'm going to use sort of omega threes for this. They take a while to be incorporated into cellular structures. So what I usually say to people is, look, I'm going to give you a dose, but we're not going to test for six months, because, you know, it takes quite a long time. It's not like a water soluble vitamin that will be in in an hour or so once it's been digested. This is something that takes a long time to be incorporated. So where do we stand with your PC? What? With those phospholipids? Is it a similar sort of pattern to see that? You're gonna have to take it for a while?

Kayla Butera  35:07

Yeah, so it's interesting, because sometimes when I'm at conferences, people will come back and say, I only tried your PC, and I feel like my my light switch was turned on in my brain within the day, right? But in general, we like to account for about six weeks to start noticing a difference. It is a slow burn, I like to say, because, again, when we're thinking about the fact that we have 37 trillion cells, right, it's a slow overturning process of supporting and slotting into the cell membranes, first and foremost. So it does take a little bit of patience, but we hear great results.

Peter Williams  35:52

So is that you sort of, how do you how do you judge how well it's working? Then, are you just going anecdotally, we feel good, or is there a way that it can be measured clinically to see that you've got more coming. There's more there. How would you Where are we with that?

Kayla Butera  36:09

Yeah, so there is a red blood cell fatty acid test that's done in the United States by the Kennedy Krieger lab with Johns Hopkins. The only downside to that is that there is a 24 hour turnaround with getting the bloods for it. So unfortunately for our people across seas like us, it's harder. Otherwise it's more. It could be symptomatic, and if people don't notice a difference by six weeks, what I sometimes recommend is stopping to take it and notice a difference. That's actually what I did with my mom. She was like, I don't know if I should continue. And I was like, stop taking it. Then at at the six week mark, she did, and she noticed a difference after a day of not taking it, and people will notice that difference. I find once they they stop.

Peter Williams  37:08

Can we talk about so it's probably going to be justified in chronic fatigue syndrome and probably long covid Is that? Where do you where do you get in its most use? What are people using it for? Do you think?

Kayla Butera  37:25

Yeah, I would say that cognitive and Energy Support. The other aspect that I would say it's really helpful for is actually detoxification. So all of these environmental stressors that we find, like our heavy metals even mold, they will plant themselves into our cell membrane. And so one of the ways in which we could support their removal is through these phospholipids, which will basically engulf these fat soluble toxins and incorporate it into bile, which then goes into our feces and then gets eliminated. So we have, like in our detoxification clinical reference guide, a whole wealth of research. I mean, phospholipids have even been used for Gulf War veterans who've encountered, you know, lots of toxic load, and have been shown to actually improve, not only their fatigue, but also their pain, their sleep, all these different levels and systems. So I would definitely highlight detoxification as well.

Peter Williams  38:39

Okay, we covered everything on fats, haven't we, because I actually want to move on to one of your couple of other products, which I really like, and I've got some downstairs. And as you can guess here, I'm probably sniffing for a few freebies on this side. But can we talk about because there's one more. As I said to you, you are, you are you have a very small group of products that you use, because obviously you concentrate around just a few products. But can we talk about your butyrate products? Can we talk about why butyrate products are now being produced based on what we understand about the microbiome. And then we can talk about your products that have two we have a sodium butyrate. We have a calcium magnesium butyrate. So can we talk about that? Because most people aren't going to know what these are.

Kayla Butera  39:33

Yeah, sure. So butyrate is a short chain fatty acid. It's a postbiotic. So you may have heard of prebiotics, you may have heard of probiotics. So those two combined make a postbiotic. And butyrate is primarily made through the fermentation of resistant starches, like your cooked and cooled potatoes. You're cooked and cooled. Rice.

Peter Williams  40:00

So before, before you carry on, can you can you understand? Can you tell? Because obviously we give this advice out the time. Can you tell the people listening what happens to cooled and cooked potatoes that makes them maybe more beneficial to certain individuals?

Kayla Butera  40:17

Yeah, to certain individuals. So it will reduce the glycemic index, so basically, the spike of blood sugar that it could otherwise cause when it's hot, and it'll allow for the food to create its own form of dietary fiber in the form of resistant starch. So you're actually bolstering that quality of

Peter Williams  40:42

you almost essentially making a bit more fiber. Aren't you, in a way by doing that. So it's kind of cool that we can do that. Okay, sorry if you go on.

Kayla Butera  40:52

So basically, we can make butyrate by our good gut bacteria munching and fermenting on these cooked and cooled potatoes, the green plantains, the cooked in cold rice and so butyrate is actually one of the main energy sources for your colonocytes, or the cells that are in your colon, which is part of your digestive system. So it's really important for gut health.

Peter Williams  41:19

So can I just take a couple of steps back on that? Because what all I want to do is just do is just interject here. So I think it's really important point is that as I tell, as I tell the people who come to see me, is that butyrate is in short chain fatty acid production is usually the sign of how happy and healthy your microbiome is when it's happy and healthy and diverse and it's been exposed to lots of plant foods that have prebiotic and fibers. They tend to feel as though they're living in a really wonderful world. And when they, when you give them that, they are going to give you back lots of gifts. And the main gift is butyrate. Because butyrate you're going to explain, does quite a lot of sort of really interesting things. So let's have it.

Kayla Butera  42:05

Yeah, no, I love that. It is, it is a gift. It is a gift. Butyrate does a lot, so it's really well known for its gut health benefits. It's going to support bowel movements. It's going to seal your gut, it's also going to decrease bloating. Those are some of the aspects that we see in regards to gut health, but it's really so much more than that, even when we're looking at it through a metabolic lens. You may have heard the audience all the rage about these GLP ones. Butyrate will actually support GLP, one secretion, so it's going to be important for managing your blood glucose levels. So I always recommend to take it with your largest meal if you're going to if you're going to embark on the butyrate journey. So that's it in the metabolic side. And then we touched upon, you know, neuroflammation earlier. Butyrate is so small that it can actually cross the blood brain barrier. So it's been shown to actually decrease neuro inflammation and support brain health, even in regards to ADH.

Peter Williams  43:15

Before you go on, sorry to interject again is that we know that the brain essentially is hidden behind what we call a blood brain barrier, and our bodies have these really important barriers. The skin is one, the gastro intestinal tract is two, but that we also have this barrier that protects the brain from the outside world and from circulation as well. So you might have heard the story, or you know, you know, the brain needs a load of cholesterol, therefore we want to see loads of cholesterol in the blood. The brain makes all its own. It has no influence from the systemic circulation at all. So because it has this barrier, because it's trying to make sure that it's only bringing in what it absolutely needs, and it's a pretty tight border. So it's very, very selective with regards to the molecules. And generally they are super, super small that are allowed to cross over. So oils, yeah,

Speaker 1  44:12

exactly, exactly. And interestingly, not only can butyrate cross that barrier, but it actually can support the integrity of that barrier, because, again, we don't want some things that aren't meant to be going to the brain, going to the brain. So there's so many ways in which you can look at butyrate, but I'm finding that that the cognitive side is really fascinating.

Peter Williams  44:39

Yeah, and just a note on that, obviously, there are specific genotypes who are more at risk from a blood brain barrier being compromised, and that's part and parcel of the neurodegenerative risk. So the APOE4 genotypes in particular, we I use butyrate with them almost consistently because of that risk and because. Only does it help to try and seal the gut gut barrier, it really, sort of actually, sort of manages to get up to the to the blood brain barrier and do some work there as well. So it's a pretty, pretty cool fatty acid, really, isn't it? I mean, it's pretty amazing, really, when you think how all of this works,

Kayla Butera  45:16

it's fascinating. And you know, to go back to the mitochondria again, butyrate will actually feed into the mitochondria as energy production. So it's been shown to actually support ATP levels and the creation of new mitochondria as well.

Peter Williams  45:32

So let me ask you a question. Let me get your expertise on this. Yes, butyrate is generally let's assume we're not giving external butyrate, as in, we'll talk about your your supplement, your supplements. But let's assume that we want butyrate, I think we'd all agree is a pretty important fatty acid, short chain so it has a much smaller structure to it. It's not as long as like saturated fats. It would mean that you would probably need to always be eating a certain diet, because you need all of those plants and all of those prebiotics and all of those poly phenolic compounds that come from fruits and vegetables, etc. And does that mean, then, that if we were talking about brain health from this perspective and gut health, it gives an argument that low plant based diets probably aren't a smart thing.

Kayla Butera  46:30

Yeah, I would agree. I would agree, because

Peter Williams  46:33

there's a there's a lot of sort of diet talk out that doesn't make a lot of sense, but maybe very short term for specific reasons. It's certainly not long term on that side.

Kayla Butera  46:43

Yes, I mean, plants are incredibly important source of that resistant starch, though you could find butyric acid, which is a form of butyrate in ghee and butter. Okay, so that's another form in which you can get it directly, but it's still important to support with the resistant starches and your good gut bacteria munching on that and fermenting it.

Peter Williams  47:12

Okay. So can we just talk about, can we also talk about how butyrate may be involved with this sort of gut brain axis and how it may influence mood as well.

Kayla Butera  47:25

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So over I believe it's 80% of our serotonin is made in our gut, so it's integrity is vitally important to our mood, and that's one of the ways in which butyrate works right is by optimizing the health and happiness, like you said, of the gut, and therefore influencing levels of not only serotonin, which is the feel good hormone, but also dopamine and other neurotransmitters. Another fascinating aspect to butyrate, though, is that it acts on our genetics. So it's been actually shown to modulate some of the genetics in our brains, so in our prefrontal cortex, which is associated with a lot of you know, decision making and attention so Peter, it's being used at the clinical level for things like ADHD and focus issues, Attention all of these different aspects.

Peter Williams  48:28

Okay, really interesting. So why did your company feel as though that was a product that you wanted to develop? And obviously, you've got two products, haven't you? Can we just talk about those? Because it's slightly different from other companies on that.

Kayla Butera  48:44

Yeah. So we can start off with that. So we have a sodium butyrate and a calcium magnesium butyrate. So in the sodium magnesium, so sodium butyrate, that is the endogenous form that our bodies produce. So when we're eating that resistant starch, and our bacteria is munching on that and fermenting it, we're creating sodium butyrate, and that's what a bulk of the research studies will use in their own in their own methods. Now we also created a calcium magnesium butyrate, and the reasoning behind that is, we wanted to create something that was friendly for those who have hypertension or that are sodium sensitive. The reason being is our sodium butyrate has 300 milligrams of sodium per two capsules, and if somebody is on a higher dose, it might be too much sodium in the context of their diet already. So that's the distinguishing factor between the sodium versus the calcium magnesium. And as for why we included sodium or butyrate in our portfolio, is we do. Have a small line. It's about like 15 to 20 supplements, including our individual minerals, but everything was really curated for cellular health and cellular membrane support. So you'll notice that we don't really have that many blends. It's just kind of these single ingredients. And to go back to your argument earlier about these high quality supplements at a higher price point, I do find that sometimes when you are going at that higher level, you don't necessarily need as many things. It's just these really important raw materials and letting your body do what it knows how to do.

Peter Williams  50:42

Okay, let's summarize up on this. What would be your what would be your information that you would give out, from a point of view of someone who's trying to take care of their health maybe want to supplement or not? So we're talking about General Foods, lifestyle and potentially supplementation. With regards to fats. What would be your overall sort of, here's the things that I would recommend to do on a basic level, and then what would be the next steps? Yeah, I

Kayla Butera  51:18

think at a basic level, consuming high quality fats in a variety of them, so consuming your walnuts raw, ideally not toasted, because you don't want to oxidize those oils when you're cooking. Cook over. Here's a

Peter Williams  51:37

question for you. I know, God, I'm trying to summarize, but again, every time you say something that question comes up, you think a lot of nuts that we get in seeds are already rancid with the oils

Kayla Butera  51:47

I would venture Yes, particularly have already been roasted. Yes. Okay, so making sure that hopefully you have a good nut supplier, a place that has a nice overturning of nuts. Is good, unfortunately.

Peter Williams  52:05

So I can remember, we were in our Summer holiday. Last year was Imperial Southern Italy, and the villa we were in had an orchard of almond trees. So every morning we would go and just pick them. So, you know, I knew we're getting omega 3s, but that's almost impossible to do in the UK. Of course, there's no almond trees in your backyard. No, I'm afraid not. No, yeah, we're not gonna or no walnuts, neither as well. Yeah. So keep going. What would be your conclusions?

Kayla Butera  52:35

So then even when you're thinking about cooking and you want to do, maybe more water based cooking, and then finishing off with these cold expeller pressed oils, high with high polyphenols in the form of an extra virgin olive oil, or even our balance oil is available in a liquid. So as long as you pour it on top of cooled foods, you're good in terms of keeping its integrity. So those are some of the things that I would think about. Think about source and think about cooking method and variety. Source, cooking method and variety.

Peter Williams  53:16

Okay, let's finish that. Kyla, thank you so much for your time. That was really informative. We'll put the company's details on the show notes, and again, we'll thank you for your time, for coming on nice one.

Kayla Butera  53:31

Thank you so much for having me. Pleasure. Bye.