Missouri vs. Missourah with Tony Michaels
Tony Michaels of the Jess podcast, how are you? I'm doing fantastic. I'm doing fantastic. How are you? My friend? I'm great. First off. Thanks for being here. A listener. Should know, I had the great good privilege, it being on the Tony Michaels podcast in December, and we had a blast, we shot the shit, which we're going to do today. We took American history quizzes. We joshed around with Gabe Sanchez. All the yes. Yes. My co-host, Gabe, Sanchez. We always have fun. We always like playing trivia. And we had fun playing American history trivia with you that now that was great. I loved having you guys. But Tony, you know, you're one of my favorite political provocateur is these days because you really. Yeah, because you pull no punches and you get out there and you speak your mind and you speak it in a real way. You know what I mean? It's not just, it's it goes without saying that it's an intelligent analysis, but it's not, it's not verbiage drenched and bullshit or it is much as you might
have a point of view, it never feels. So partisan, it just feels from the gut and I want to first thing I want to go back to is who is Tony Michael's. How does the world get to know you? Like we do, like you have us take us back to the beginning. So I guess the beginning of what the, the interwebs know of Tony Michaels is that, that, you know, the pandemic happened, right? And I decided that I would try the same thing that everyone was trying. I watch Tiger King, right? I had to do. That I did too. And then I took this Tick Tock app that I had downloaded and put my hand on the Tony Michaels, which I had a handle from YouTube, from some silly-ass drive through videos, fast food, drive-thru videos that I did a couple years before, never really touched it since then, but I had this handle. So I used this handle. I opened up my Tic Tac and I started do the stupid Dance videos in the dream videos, and I've set it down that summer of 2020 and the election started to happen. And then Donald Trump
got his ass kicked by Joe Biden. Amen. Whoo. He just wouldn't let it the fuck go that he that he wouldn't let it go that he lost and he kept perpetuating this big lie, and I would go on a walk everyday at the time. I walked about three miles in the morning. And so I just started to yell into Tick-Tock about this mango Mussolini Jesus, this Cheeto dust mop stir. This Grandpa poopy pants. That is the The former guy Donald Trump and I really didn't mean to, you know, put a, you know Corner the market on the phrase, fuck them, but I would say it at the end of my videos and it kind of caught on pretty quick and I noticed over time that people liked my commentary, they would say things like normally someone who looks like you and talks like you doesn't say these things, right? Right. Did the end. And so I noticed that, that was happening, and then people wanted longer content. So I decided, Well, I guess in today's world podcast is where it's at. It's easy to do. It's easy to to start talking
into a microphone. So that's what I started doing. And, you know, I had this idea of talk radio, Okay, and then in the, if you go back to the Tony michaels.com and you go to like either YouTube or you go to the the the directories like apple or Spotify and you go to my early episodes. It's just like an hour of me talking like about what that week was because originally, I did it one time a week on Wednesdays and it was worried about it during the lockdown day. Well, no, this was after. This was this, my first show. If you go watch episode number one, they they were voting in the house to impeach. Donald Trump for the second time for what happened on. January 6th. I didn't plan it that way. Just how it happened. So that was my very first broadcast was episode number one. When they were voting on the house, floor to impeach him for what had happened. On January 6. Again. I didn't really plan it that way. Just happened that way, right? And that was episode one. We just got done. I just got
done recording episode 103. So, now we do it every single weekday. Two hours a day. We bring on a great interviews, like, we had you on. We've had a nice care, Meucci on ice. Oh, yeah, the music. That's good music that we've had the my zealous brothers from Midas Touch. Yeah, and so many other guests that, you know, that I'm forgetting about right off the top of my head but it really is, we tried to harken back to, you know, right. Wing talk radio, but left-wing if that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's an interesting point in before we get go back even further to that. I guess the young man from Jefferson City, Missouri. Aren't you in Jefferson's? Well, I am and Jeff. I'm from the Lake of the Ozarks. Oh, you're from the. If you know, if you know, the Netflix series Ozark, I do I grew up on a farm like 15 minutes from where it set. So and I actually grew up in the lake is what I say. Because my grandparents owned a resort and we go to the lake often during the summer. So I would swim
in the lake like all day long. So I grew up in the Lake of the Ozarks. And and is he is that part of, Missouri? Missouri. Or is it Missouri? So in that part of the state, you would more than likely call it Missouri, especially if you were a politician you knew you were going to go speak at like a Community Hall or something. You would definitely say mosura. You wouldn't say Missouri. I love it. I love it. And is that part of the state also, correct me if I'm wrong. It's not terribly far from Springfield. Right? Isn't that kind of well, so it is soap Springfield, Branson areas more of the what you think of like the Ozark Mountains. Like that's it's more North at well, Northeast of of Springfield, but the thing that draws to the Lake of the Ozarks and and you see it, they do portray it. So well on the Netflix series Ozark is that it's one of the biggest private managed likes. Most lakes in the country are managed by the Army Corps of Engineers. Sure. This one is not, it is, it is a privately
managed Lake by what used to be you. Onion electric now is Ameren UE or Ameren? There's a dam there to hydroelectric. Dam that. It's a man-made lake and they built that Dam in 1929. During during the Great Depression. They built that they built that Dam. So that Lakes been there for a long time, but it has the largest private Shoreline in the country and you can buy right up to the lake. So it there's a lot of it's different than some other leaks that you go. To because it can you can on private property, light it right up to the lake shore. So you're born in Missouri. This is interesting. We're going to get into your life and the, by the politics of Missouri have certainly changed. How did you, you came of age doing? What were you always a guy in a rural area? Fascinated by this country? Loving the country. Did you care? Where you something, which is, you're not care? Then I mean, how did you get to the place? I know understand when you started it because you have such a great voice. And
I think that you said earlier is true. I think people love the idea. You know, that somebody, you know, from rural America, technically, red America, the Missouri used to be purple, you know, it would be a voice for common sense, for decency and not, not for trumpism. So, give us a little background on there. So I think a lot of my influence came from several different places. Number one. My mom is a Was a government worker. She's retired now, so and she worked in the office of an Administration, not as she was a bureaucrat. She didn't work for a governor. She worked for all of his medical equipment of the Civil Service in d.c. Correct? Exactly. Exactly. She was a bureaucrat. So I grew up listening to what the government was doing, because she was right in the heart of all of it. She worked in an office that would score the bills. That would come to the Missouri legislator. So she would see, not just one of them but all those Bills and who would sponsor them and how many were copied sponsors
and she actually to tell you a quick story. She tells the story about how Eric greitens our our our once, great governor who has disgraced by a story that will maybe get into here. Did you want to talk about Missouri politics? I do. So just to tell a quick story. She actually knew of Mike Parsons because she would ride the elevators. They would write the same. Later a lot. And she's like, oh he'll when greitens was disgraced and he resigned, she like, oh, Mike Parsons will make a great Giver. Now. She says, I had no idea that that person. The other would be such a shit box, you know, like he seemed like such a decent human being in the elevator and he's done such a great disservice to the state of Missouri by being such a spineless coward. So there's so. So I I got that influence from her, but I also I also go to, I watched a lot. A lot of George Carlin returning. My God. Absolutely. We got H. We got a satellite dish and had HBO. When I was, I don't know. I was like 12 and I would stay
up at night. You know, you hear all the stories about how you'd, you know, sneak sneak comedy from your parents, especially like Carlin or something like that, but I would, I watched like Eddie Murphy Raw, but I watched a lot of Carlin, a lot of cartilage. Yeah. Did you ever see him live? I've actually got to see more. I did not, I did not get to see George live. I've watched not just his specials but I watched a lot of interviews and the other thing I was going to say the other influence is that when I was a kid in a farmhouse, we had one TV, right? It was in the living room and Dad pretty much controlled it unless he was asleep or at work. Right. And but later on I got a black and white TV from a garage sale and I said it up in my room and I had bunny ears. So I only got like 12 channels, but the two shows that I remember while three that I remember watching the most was Nightline. I'm with Ted Koppel, which was the best, right? And then and then I would watch Politically Incorrect with
Bill Maher. Another one of my face. I still love Bill and then and then signed belt, right? So those so that's probably those three things between my, mom, being in government and caring about it because it was her life. And then also some of the comedy and that I would consume, like, through Carlin. And then also shows like Ted Koppel. I mean, you know, I'm not 13 year old kid, doin my homework late at night watching. Kapil and Bill Maher and Politically Incorrect, it's kind of weird, but that's not really political influence came from and then I was a young dad. I was in sales. I would drive around and sales. So I would listen to a lot of talk radio. So I listen to a lot of Rush Limbaugh. Now, I be a melee disagree with the guy and I would be screaming at the radio the entire time that I was driving. Like if you if you watch someone drove past me like this psycho. He's like screaming in the car at the radio. Well, it's interesting when you talk about Talk radio, being on the left. I mean,
I think that, you know, I consider myself dead center, dirty moderate. But but obviously with a lot of positions that I would I would say might appear on the left or on the left rushed, you know, this whole corrosive, disgusting divide drench people in hate fear racism fascism, you know, people always point to Fox News as they should, I appeared sure year on Fox News as I liberal antagonist. Of course. I'm a communist compared to Fox News. You're not matter it on, Fox News called me, a liberal, even. But anyway, you know, again, I was hiding the Trump here. I don't know how you could be anything. But, but what's interesting is the beginning of this, of this, of this vehement. So, you know, this this, this robust there is another, there is a vey, you're losing. They're taking from you. Your world is shrinking Rush Limbaugh. Conservative talk, radio proceeded, Fox news by several years and and And did their very best and still do you know to Rally the rabble into fits of rage? And to the
point that I've known many people who go on that political whatever, I'm not liberal or conservative and they'll tell me they listen to Rush Limbaugh on the way. We're did know or listening Hannity and they're like, yeah, but I'm like there is no way that if you are formless in your opinions, or don't know what you believe, or maybe you do believe that in, don't realize it that that shit can infiltrate your brain and lead you to start. Whirring that somebody who's trans gendered is going to break in your home and steal your child and eat your baby and, you know, all the crap that they sell America used to be great. But now we have to share it with everybody else. So it's not as great because it's too brown or it's too gay or it's to female or whatever the hell, whatever the crap they're spilling. Right? Well, I love the idea and I know it's not been tried all that successfully in the talk radio, age member are America kind of didn't work out. But in a podcast, Cast age you with Gabe and
the Midas boys and all you guys but you especially can literally be. You know, the The Barn Burning provocateur that I think is needed but speaking the truth to it and and though I don't think politics should be this binary, but you're in where your world, you know, your amaz Okapi, you know, you're not you're not is suing forth from some New York City Apartment, you know, or some West Hollywood Bungalow, you know, you're talking from a place of Bartlett and I That lets people understand how more and more nuanced. We are. What a big country. We are a lot of things, get lost in translation. And to this point. I wanted to read you this. I looked this up for I today, I wanted to see the 2020 vote in Missouri. And I some of this I'm saying this for a reason Trump wins the state with fifty six point, eight percent of the vote. Okay, 1.78 1.7, 18 million bucks. Okay, Biden gets forty one point four percent of the vote. Okay, the and I point this out. So let's just say roughly 15 Point difference.
The point being is 41%, So 4 in 10 voters. Basically, in your state, still opted for Joe Biden said, they didn't want trumpism. You know, this wasn't a T20. Now. I know that's a little bit of a lopsided margin, but I think it's important that people remember that in all these red States and I hate to divide, but I'm going to use it for this purpose has an exam. Sure. There are people in there who aren't voting for The Josh Holly's, obviously, and who aren't voting for, Lindsey Graham's and aren't voting for The Ted Cruz's. And that don't want these people in power and it's interesting that there can be a tendency. I think among people, you don't do this, which is why your voice is so important to forget that, you know, it's not everybody in blue States versus everybody in that states. Not just, you know, what do you think about that in the, you know, the whole kit and caboodle of Missouri these days? Well, I've got a lot of thoughts on the blue dots and red States as some people call them.
Okay? You know, you said, the vote was 41 to Biden and a lot of it. I don't actually think, even that 41% was probably like all enthused about biting. There was probably a large percentage of the population in that vote. That was like, hmm, not I don't care who the Democrat is. I'm not gonna do the whole Trump thing. But a lot of people in the state did, you know, it is a tough margin to beat. But what do y'all tonight to understand? Is that we had a vote here recently in Missouri for Medicare for Medicaid Medicare expansion, right? Missouri was one of the holdouts from the ACA for many many years and by why they did it. I have no idea the state was losing their own money. That was awarded to them by the ACA. I mean, basically just to shit. The shit on Obama's Legacy is what they wanted to do. The Republicans that is in control of the state because that's really what We have now in Missouri is the legislator, the executive branch. I mean, almost the entire government, besides some of the
appointees that were made by some Democrats prior like on the courts are pretty much Republican. But this we finally got on the ballot. We get Medicaid expansion and even medical marijuana and they passed. And everyone said, oh, it's because of the big city st. Louis and Kansas City. That's all bullshit. If you go look at the numbers from those votes. There are rule County. Yes, it wasn't a majority vote. But there was 40 over forty percent that voted for Medicaid or Medicare expansion of the ACA Obamacare in those counties. And the reason why Adam is because that Medicare expansion was going to help keep rule hospitals, open what it does. Oh God. I mean the money that was going to be given and awarded that Missouri was missing out on 44. Almost a fucking decade. That the reason why those people in those rural communities were voting for that, Medicare expansion and nothing to do with politics and then have to do a trump. It was because they were going, there was the threat because they've
seen so many rural hospitals go away in Missouri, which is crazy right before 2020, when we can talk about that. But to see to know that, if we don't vote for this, the hospital administrators in some of these rural hospitals, saying look, if you don't vote for this, we're not going to survive the next 45 years. You won't have Hospital here in this County, you will have a county hospital. Now. These hospitals are big but they're crucial and critical to those people in those counties. And so to say that the Missouri is red. It's tough to say that it used to be more purple than it is. Now. It is more red than it than it ever has been. But I think that's because Trump gave permission to a lot of racist and a lot of bigots to be outright racist and bigoted sand to start. Assuming the racist and bigoted content that is, you know, the the the covid stuff, the Mast of the Mandate stuff, the queue and on stuff am, I've had some family members fall to q and on and I think that's really what makes
it more fascist than red than anything. But you can call fascism in Missouri read to, I guess. Yeah. I mean, you know, member of the used to be as Missouri goes. So goes the nation. They voted with every winter. I've been so I think we talked about this on your program people. Wanting believe it, that Bill Clinton carried the state twice and that was, you know, sort of it was a state that he was able to pull in the Democratic, common starting with w--, bush, a change, Obama nearly got it. You know, it with a McCain he almost like like just with I mean, like, I think it was less than a point. I think, that's right. Yeah, and I remember even one thing that then and then since 08 I've not thought that. But his little, the political geek and electoral geek and I am, I thought, oh, Well, Obama's going to win, you know, he's going to pull in Virginia Colorado for the first he did in the North Carolina and I was wrong. I said, you know, he's going to squeeze out Missouri. It's going to end up
going back in the blue column and I remember thinking that night. Wow, if Obama on this nice caring, Indiana, North Carolina and every state is different, but still, if you can't pull Missouri, which had been Bill Clinton State, and the past had been a, you know, a Humphrey stage. Truman said all those things. Obviously, Harry Truman. I'm how, you know, is this state? On and I and I do think you're right. I think the origins of a culture War, you know that you're seeing now which is certainly about race but it's about fear and it's about paranoia and it's about everything else that comes with with, with divisiveness, you know, culture War. Sadly Rick Wilson talks about this all the time and Lincoln project. They work. The Republicans use this stuff because it's a simple way to operate emotionally and fear-based with people and that shit. It works one. Fortunately, you know, being wise or talking about the details of why Medicaid is needed in a state. Like Missouri with its opioid addiction
is rural counties that don't have enough hospitals. That take your people, no matter who you are or what you thing to do is a much, it should be, everybody should go. Oh, wow, that makes sense. But in America, right with the Advent of cable news talk radio and all and social media has made so much as contributed, some a disinformation, but you see You hear the way that people go? Well, you know, this is you can't believe what's happened is critical race theory in school. Oh God, damn it. I'm voting out the Democrat, you know, instead of saying, wait a second, Is that real? What is it? What does that mean? Who cares? You know what I mean? And then the priorities get shifted and I think because fear and culture is such a big motivator. I think it keeps the Democrats on the back foot. I don't always think the Democrats run with their strengths. I think as you know, I think that the bread-and-butter campaign is always the way to beat the Republicans. Because you're not going to win on their
Turf. You know what I mean? You never going to be enough. Jesus, enough anti-lgbt. No, no, no. No, I mean, not right now, but what you got can do, when I give Bernie Sanders credit for this on, not a Bernie guy, speak about how class and in a quality is bringing the country down. So that's so that's that fear in that culture. Because if you go back to 2008 and you look at that, Missouri vote, the one thing that pulled John McCain over that over that threshold. Shoulder of, so goes Missouri. Goes, the nation are apparel past Sarah Palin. And it was that fear culture-based and because when she came on the scene that she such a buffoon and she was so not just unqualified to be the vice president of the United States. But to even be considered as a nominee, really in the, in the realm of, you know, and we can beat up Steve Schmidt and all that all day long. For some of those decisions that were made. But the point being is that Sarah Palin when she Came on the scene. We talked about Rush Limbaugh
and Sean Hannity earlier. She was the darling of them. And the reason why is because they saw her as the avenue to what was what we know now is trumpism. Like that was the, that's the beautiful that God wanted, right? All right, stay wanted that vehicle where she spoke to, you know, the soccer moms and all this shit. This this this simple language to not to not talk down to someone tonight. Try to throw statistics and facts at One just to speak to them. You know, that they always say Donald Trump. He tells it like it is, which is all bullshit. He tells it like it is, which he's a fucking liar, doesn't tell it like it is. No, he fucking lies, but I mean the way he says it the way he presents it in as few words as possible. That's them saying. Tell it like it is. And I think if the left maybe not Democrats, but the left in general because I don't think it's just like this tent of the left like in the small d. The Democratic party like the pro-democracy people in this country. Yeah, you know,
like this. It's a really big tent. Like the Lincoln project. You never earned a right. We're all in it together. We have two liens against against the authoritarian moving this country. I don't care. Absolutely Aldi democratically. That's exactly right. That's exactly where I am. And by no means of because I have my issues with one party or the other. Would I not be in this fight with you? I'm with y'all. Well, I mean, if that Mission can actually tap into and I believe this wholeheartedly and I talked to Rachel bit golfer who's a strategic political strategist as she's with strike back and she's comes on our show all the time, but I talked to her about messaging a lot on and off the show and what did the small D, big tent, pro-democracy people. Some like you said Rick Wilson gets it but they don't get is this culture War fear-based thing wins elections now. It's not very good at legislating. We can see that with the Republicans. They're horrible at legislating because they know nothing
more than the lies in the hatred and the fear. And the problem isn't the - it's a - politics in the sense that they absolutely don't stand for anything. We stand against things, right? When they come in and this is what depresses me to. And you make a good point, not having a two-part. If you're going to be a two-party country and having one party that, that is normal, but dysfunctional. But then having another one that are a bunch of authoritarian lunatics in All to cheat on fuck face or whatever you want called, but durable poopy Grandpa poopy, a poopy play think about that. You you Republican. I always say there is this honorable tradition of limited government free markets and I say, okay you do not agree with the green New Deal. Okay, that's fine. We let's say, we all agree that climate change is real. We're not going to play you Laura England's games. Okay, great. Well, if you believe that, do you have a solution for the environment? That is not the green new deal because I don't
love the green new deal either, but I always say, I'd like to have a, an alternative. There should be an alternative, just a conservative alternative, but there could be an alternate. The problem is the Republicans just demonize climate change and then they don't have the answer for you. Well, that's because their leader, their leader, the, the Jesus mango Mussolini, he says things, like, when you're asking about Ukraine, he says things like well, windmills kill birds and they, you know, and, and that that perpetuates the Stupidity. So, but what I think on the, again, the left, but it's not really the lead. It's you're talking about working. New me right up, right? Exactly. Exactly. People who aren't who are anti-fascist or antifa. If you want to say that the people who get paid by George Soros, which I'm still waiting on my Jack, but I haven't me to. Where's my check, right? I don't know. I don't know. But, but anyways, the folks that are paid by Soros. If they just got their messaging
down, because I think there's there's two different things. Things at play. And I think Republicans have always done this. Really. Well, there's politics right for elections and then there's governing, right? And they know that Republicans not just the politicians, but also the voters know that those are two separate things. Those things are not the same. Those are two different than government and politics are two different things. Now they kind of play with each other, right? But they're two different things. Democrats do not do that. They'll run on a campaign and they'll be like line by line item in a build that doesn't even fucking exist. What are you doing? You're not you're not going to win with a message of a line item on a bill. That doesn't exist. Try, try making sure that your constituents know that what they're doing to people to children who are gay children, who are trans women in the state of Texas. Women in the state of Missouri. They want to take their fucking Liberty away.
Mike Braun a sitting senator in Indiana said, on a fucking interview. When Asked about racial interracial marriage, rather. It should be left to say. That fucking scumbag said, yes. We're in a position where the Republican Party the fascist because that's what they are. They are hell-bent on taking us, not back. Everyone's like, oh make America great. Again. That's the 1960s. I'm like try again. Try again. Go back further. These son of a bitches want to take us back to the late. The late 18th century. Is where they want to take us. I mean, this is I mean, they really do want it. Harken back all the way back there, and they're, they're hell-bent on it. And not only are they going to not only going to do it in their politics. They're going to try to legislate it. They're going to try to force you. They're going to try to make sure that there's laws in the states that they want, because this is the Cheeto Confederacy, right? That's their idea. That's there that they're horny. They're getting
boners over this stuff about this Cheeto Confederacy stuff because they really We do want to have to America's that's what they want. The neo-nazis have said it for year. The white nationalist have said it for years, the alt-right with Spencer when they did the rally and Charlottesville that group of folks, the Patriot front, the Adam Waffen. They want to America's. And they want to send, they want to send liberals, which is anyone who has fucking common sense at this point, which is crazy. That anyone would come. And since that realizes that, you know, you shouldn't fucking put a bounty on a on a woman's uterus. You shouldn't, you shouldn't pass a bill that makes it to where the state can execute a woman because she's got to get a medical procedure. You shouldn't fucking pass bills. That make it a felony to leave a state that you can't get a medical procedure in like Missouri who doesn't have clinics here anymore because of the Republican fascist have done that to women. They have to go
to like, Illinois. So now it's a felony. If you go to Illinois to get a medical procedure, ER, I mean, they don't want you to say gay. I mean, they don't, they don't, I mean, literally literally they are the Putin type fascist that they want to be that they desire to be and they want to take power just for Powers sake. And if and if we can use that, the reason why I say all this, if we can use that us pro-democracy, people can use that messaging and to make sure that people understand what's at stake here. That people you're gay people, like you will not be able to have your relationship that you want to have. You will not be able to do it. They won't allow it. Not only will they not allow their ostracised you from their ostracize, you from society, which is absolutely ridiculous. They've lost all humanity and if people don't understand that, it's not about taxes. It's not about deficits. No, it's not about even abortion anymore. Now, this is way far beyond that. If we can use that in the
messaging, I think pro-democracy. I see people can win. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, you know, I mean, there's always you see, people do it a all of us on our side poked a little bit. I mean Lincoln project pokes at I poke it Bill kristol a poke in, you know, you'll show up. They'll be a tweet from some Trumper about something and you find out that they're sort of an upper-middle-class professional with a grievance who went to January 6 to score in the capital. What happened to all this? I thought was all this economic anxiety. I thought it nothing to do with race and gender and sexuality and culture right there. Just been left behind the Factory closed in Youngstown, Ohio, and I'm pissed. I'm going to vote for Trump. That's all bullshit. That's all bullshit. That's not what it was. See ya, you're the factory did close and that is a bad thing. And there have been bad, trade deals and all that stuff. But you're just you're being told by Fox News that somebody of a different color or a different
ilk or different sexual is taking, or that teacher is teaching how well, they're not teaching about Good Old the American, Heartland. Anymore, they're teaching why trans kids have rights. I mean as if a which is not true, but be as if those things are bad or or somehow mutually, exclusive from, you know, miracle workers feel dislocated in Lost in a in a very tough time, as not capitalism. But but the corruption has failed them, you know, or crony capitalism, you might say, so that's happened. But then, you've got this, this, this flag faith and guns, God. Gays crap that they've been doing forever. That's your the bejesus out of people. But in you made a good point, they're doing this and they're trying to do it for power that because they're a shrinking minority of people. They're trying to pass as many laws as they try to rap, you know, rally the base, which is what you saw with the disgraceful performance, by the GOP, white Kabuki crowd, who this week. Tried, to make all those very unsuccessful
against judge Jackson, and you see them trying to do it because they know that Things are changing and they can't stop of what they can do. Is they can pass Draconian laws, that allow them to cling to power, why? Because they have fervent supporters. You know, we in the Big Ten that were in, we all rallied in 2027 that million, more of us overall. This country got rid of that asshole. But but in most cases we got midterms coming up, you know, but for some exceptions, you know our tent doesn't get his exuberant, you know, because we're not, you know, we don't get boners. Because we can go out and buy an old machine gun or something. What if you want, if you want to tap into the mind of a white rule person? The reason why it's so easy to stoke. Some of these culture wars, is because in in Rural America, white rule America, specifically, which I'm from, and I know. And I know these people, I know how they think. I know what they say II was one, Andy is one. I guess you'd say. But the reason
the reason why Why they're so easily scared by, you know, gay marriage or are transgender people. These people really believe like, transgenderism just started yesterday. Right? Like, this is just a fad these people, which is number one. On his face, is really fucking weird. That people are concerned about other people's genitalia. When they go in the bathroom or the or that homosexuality or bisexuality or any of these things were some like liberal creation. I've been around thousands of years and right every species and you know, I mean my God It's like ridiculous. You believe the Democratic party is trying to make us all gay. It's like, okay. Well, no, they're not. But anyway, go on. But here's the here's the thing though. And rule in rural, Missouri, but in Rural America, these things are not a are not accepted. So if someone if someone discovers that, they're that they're gay, right? Because I don't think some, I don't think that it's a choice or whatever. I think people have a certain
identity, right? And sometimes they choose to, they choose to accept that identity and put it, extrovert lie, right? And some people internalize it for their entire life, but in rule in Rural America, your only option is to internalize that a lot of times right now or to go to another part of the country that wear it, you are accepted or people welcome you with open arms with Humanity, right? Like decency and Humanity like It only makes sense. And the reason why it's so easy to scare people in, in Rural America is because they really do think that this, that this bathroom thing, the genitalia the transgenderism, you know, they think that it's just started, and it's like, no, you actually unbeknownst to you. When, when Johnny, who moved from wherever to your to your rule Town, her name used to be Susan, you didn't know that. That you didn't know. The reason why they move their, you didn't understand that that person was a transgender person. You had no clue. You grew up all that time. Not
knowing. And the reason why is because those people couldn't say who they were really because you would ostracize them and you would cast them out into society in your town and your community. And they don't understand that. This is not a new thing. No, it's not new. This is not new, but that the Session with it. Is this fear based where they have climbed down this rabbit hole? And a lot of this we seen Josh Holly speaking of contain G Brown Jackson, Josh Holly and and even Tom Cotton this week. They are obsessed with child porn. And the reason why, well, there could be a number of reasons why. But I think the reason why is they're they're they're, they're sending a megaphone to the queue and honors out there. Oh, yeah, that could contain G Brown Jackson is is part of the Cabal, right. She's a black woman. She has a funny name. Adam, and by God, she's soft on pedophiles. That means she's part of the cabal. And that's and that's this. This thing that they've done to us is they've they've
created this situation where it's the Us and Them thing, instead of just saying we're all humans, right? We're all humans. Yes, we disagree. Like, I'm sure because you're a moderate. There's a lot of things, me, and you will disagree, disagree, on on policy, but it does Make us any less human, right? But to them, it does. Right? And also, you know, the the beauty of America, and I do love America, and we may disagree with may not disagree on most, I mean, have to go line by line. But guess what? It's okay for us to have policy differences. As a matter of fact, that's the foundation of this country. That's right. You know, the Constitution was nearly not ratified, you know, it could have been the Anti-Federalists. I mean it was close, but my point was since we have been Founded its course, a healthy debate on what we are as a country who we are, what size of government, we should have, what's a good idea? Not practically pragmatically, call it whatever you want. Has been so Central to the
to our Evolution as a country and to our end, to the way. We relate as human beings. And what I hate now about it, is you talk about these people is that you literally are, might not mind but you are their enemy. If you are. You know, you could be, you could be voting on many many fiscal. You could be very fiscally conservative. Let's say you saying this doesn't exist very much, but you could be incredibly conservative and economic issues maybe even on Foreign Affairs, but you're also happen to believe the government should regulate woman's right to choose. Or, you know, you didn't like Trump or your frail G BT Q rights, then you are an enemy. You're just not a republican. You are an enemy where your Liz Cheney, and to some degree, right? That's it. Some degree and, you know, I mean least, Janie's. Liz Cheney is, is, is not an opposition of gay marriage, yet. She voted 99% of the time with Trump, but because she's she's willing to tell the truth about about the election. She's, she's the
enemy. She's the, she's she's a Democrat, which she is not at all. She's nothing like a Democrat. Listen Liz. This to the right of me. I have a lot of respect for Liz Cheney for other reasons, but certainly speaking out right Houston and speaking out against policy, differences was the Hallmark. That's what we did. That's how That long, that's what we do. You know, that's how people relate. Now, policy differences are secondary to You have to own the libs. They will be. Whether that means supportive group, right? Whether that means acknowledging the January. So it's just me and believing rather. The January 6 is this is not a big deal. And meanwhile, Biden is not legitimate. If, you know, we are in a very crazy and I know we talked about people talk about all the time, but only people realize that it's not about the fact that we're always disagreeing that is healthy, that is in the DNA of the American experiment. It Is that we believe that those with whom we disagree are not Americans,
right? Well, not even human, even human. Yeah, not even human and they don't be long. And that is one of the seedlings of in men. There are many here of how a country can drift from a democracy or a republic, or a Democratic Republic to certainly an oligarchy, which we're seeing a little bit. And then essentially, to tyranny Plato wrote about that, right? Well, fascist fascist State, fascist State authoritarian. Regime, I mean, it could be a lot of things. I don't think people that I spent a lot of time on authoritarianism, don't even understand that because they think that it takes going to roll through the street. I'm like, no. No, you don't get it. It won't be free and fair elections. Everything will be rigged. People will be in power like Republicans passing bills that the majority don't want and the rich will get tax cuts and everybody else will just be there and you're lucky, if you're on your own that's an autocratic government. That was like Latin America. Yummy, yummy, piss off.
Some Bernie Bruce here on the dirty monitor because I wear you can always Yes, so I think I think another reason why our country has has. So so desired authoritarianism because I believe there's a lot of people out there and, maybe I should, or shouldn't say, their names here is, you know, but whatever. But but Bernie Bernie supporters were very authoritarian. They wanted Bernie Sanders with the stroke of a pen to get rid of this, do this, do that, which is authoritarian one person doing doing the job of what we the people. People want to do is authoritarian now, rather, now rather that's right, or wrong, or indifferent, right? Because we can argue the merits on line by line on. Should the president had the power, which I actually believe seeing what Donald Trump did. We actually should strip away. A lot of powers from the president. I don't care who it is. Joe Biden. Brock, Brock, Obama George w--, Bush, or Donald Trump. Well, that's that conception Tony your. Your you are so singing.
My song that the presidency in the United States was not this sin. We'll figure this Crown figure really until 20th century largely because of the depression and then the Cold War prior to they'll go the 19th century was really Congress. Had the same Congress has the right to declare war, not the president. And then this use of executive orders, which many of them of all use and Trump used too much, but Obama use them. I don't know when you're right, when the left comes along and says, well now we're in power and yes, we hated those other people, but we're not going to. If we don't get our way we're going to be Robespierre and send everybody. The guillotine. Well, that is authoritarianism. Here's a I'm example is and and I like Don Winslow's, I like the videos that he does, but he put in the last several months. He's promoted authoritarianism. I say that, the president United States has the power, are the government has the power to come in and just prosecute anyone anywhere any debt right
now? In this moment because we want them prosecuted and we want heads on Pikes. That's authoritarian. It doesn't matter how you fucking shape. It. It doesn't matter who's doing it, what they're doing it for. Do you think it's right or wrong, or indifferent? Or it's to save the country or save democracy, its authoritarian. Now, the reason why I think that that corrodes it are our fucking institutions, rather, it comes from the right of the left is because we are a democracy. Now, we are, as you said, a Democratic Republic, but we are a democracy and as you questioned those institutions, especially pro-democracy, which some are supposed to be, if you question those from the right or the left and you take an authoritarian, Stan's it. Erodes at that democracy, whether you like it or not, whether you believe in democracy, or you don't believe in democracy, it? Erodes at it. If I can erodes at it. Here's a prime example. Yeah, of this of this in Texas. They're trying to pass the anti-transgender.
Well, the transgender stuff, they're doing in a lot of States but there's a guy named Jeff younger who is running for a seat in Texas, and his daughter is a transgender daughter. He tried to prevent It his daughter from becoming transgender. He did not win that battle. The mother won custody. His daughter is now. Is it is his trans daughter. Very upsetting. He's a fascist. He doesn't think that his kid should be transgender nor other kids. He went to Denton Texas, the University of North Texas to give a to give a fascist speech about how he hates transgender people. And he wants to legislate that, those people should not be in society and There is a video of the students protest, protesting, Jeff younger and there's screaming. Fuck the fascist. I posted this video on till. All right, all the students were. Yeah, their task. It's a fantastic video. I posted the video on Tick-Tock and I think it's got like almost six million views now not too. So that's just the one pose that I made. So I'm
sure there's tens of millions of users around the internet. But the point is this is that the number one comment that I get from from the fascist in the Is they say, oh, they're saying, fuck the fascist and they don't know that, they're the fascism that they're putting on Jeff younger is they don't want to hear anyone else's opinion. And here's the problem that we have right now in this country with the left and the right on this authoritarian stuff. It stops being your opinion. It stopped being your opinion when you become a legislator and you start putting it into law. It's no longer your opinion. It's that it's you can have an opinion on rather. People can be transgender or not. You can have that opinion as soon as you become a legislator and you pass laws for people not to be transgender. And you Oster Versa, or you ostracize those people from society. It is no longer your fucking opinion. That is all bogus. That's bullshit. That's bunk. It is not your opinion anymore. And that's the
crossroad that we're at because it's even it's even coming from the left because I know there's a lot of things that you probably don't agree with with Bernie Sanders and you said that in the past, but when you start legislating those things and you start legislating. Things that's how authoritarian starts to leak in. Well, I come at it, from two ways, as a student of politics. I don't agree. I don't believe in Utopias. So I don't believe you can perfect human nature. That doesn't mean government doesn't have a role to play, but I you mean, you mean us, humans aren't perfect. But then Tony talked to some of your pals in the lead, but he think if we passed the green New Deal to build back better Bill and Joe, I didn't cancel every ounce of student debt. Everything goes away. Everything's fine. It's not right, right. And it's not Also, not necessarily good policy, but I want to get one. I want to want to stay, right? My point of saying that about and to bring it back to Bernie. Is that so
you have this view that that if we just got our way on the left then it would be great. Okay, but I go step further Trump was so bad for the country, worst thing. I think that's probably ever happening but he did make and not just the lip of the Democrats. Love everybody. So nuts, that in many cases, they did a bandit. Our belief or faith and institutions or constitutional government or the role of President should play. Because they were so angry at whoops. Like I'm back. Sorry. I was saying they, a lot of people became their own little tyrants, not necessarily in law. But what I mean, is Trump made everybody crazy, so it became Prosecuting prosecute everybody take everybody down, doesn't matter. Now, A present come in and correct. Everything Trump did even though we spend four years saying, Presidents aren't Kings. Our President, should be a kid, right? And then, and then, to be fair, to be fair. The Democrats have behaved abhorrently in the past with Republicans, Supreme Court nominees.
Now, they have done so justifiably in certain time because Anita Hill was right and Clarence, Thomas is a scumbag. And Brett Kavanaugh was the one that brought this to Bear, but he also done. So, in cases where there's been people who they just don't like and they want to tear down. Hmm, that Being said that does not excuse, you know, the blatant racism condescension and total disgraceful Behavior. They showed judge Jackson, but my point is, everything is so politicized and every side thinks their way as they think their end result is, right. So they think their means are unimpeachable. They think their means are okay, and they're like, well, we're doing it for the right, for the right reasons. Well, you know, the French Revolution was for the right reasons, a lot of people, you know, yeah, it was good to get rid of the aristocracy and then in Power the church, but you know, they sent a lot of innocent people to their death so that you know, stalinism did to Mao one. So we're going to create
a perfect Society with the Great Leap Forward. We're gonna murder millions of people. So I'm not saying it with the left America's doing, but I'm saying authoritarian Tendencies to your point. They do that, they do that and the democratic-republican party. And I know people who are just all they want, is Trump prosecute everybody thrown in jail and whatever. Whether that's right or wrong. Of course, I hate Trump, whatever you say. I only want things done. That is to the letter of the law because what Trump did that was so disgraceful was shit and tarnish and and and make people lose Faith fundamentally in that the rule of law, which we have all believed for 240. Plus years is bedrock. You feel open. Follow me. I do. And speaking to the Supreme Court nominees. I know I've said this all week, if you want to start difference because I, you know, I get this shit a lot to that. Both parties are the same, you know, it comes from I don't think you're saying that you're not saying about and because
I get that a lot. I guess, you know, a lot of people say that shit because they're giving excuses for the Republicans like, oh well, Democrats are exact same. I don't think that's what you're saying. But but to give you a very Stark difference in an example and a rebuttal to someone who says that kind of shit, what you can do is you can point to the questions that they were asking Judge Brown Jackson this week versus what they had to ask Brett Kavanaugh because it's Lindsey Graham went on this big fucking tired. How it's so unfair, how they treated? Brett, Kavanaugh and the white, the white dude got treated. So unfairly because he had sexual assault allegations and he's a fucking scumbag, and they had to ask him about the sexual assault allegations, and he's a scumbag. Well, yeah, they had to ask him that because he was accused of that. Judge Brown Jackson is not being accused of sexual assault, or side by Brett Kavanaugh. This is Clarence. Thomas was listen. I'll tell you, I'll tell you
where I am. Very aware. What I'm trying to say would be. Be in practice. I believe this the President appoints extreme Court Justice. The second job is to advise and consent. Okay. Now I love that Ruth. Bader Ginsburg was confirmed. 97 two, three. I let not, cuz I'll every pit against her but she was, I love that Antonin. Scalia was 100 to 0. I don't like Scalia, but my point, but my point is, I do believe it. John Roberts is a good example. He would have been a nominee. Republican nominee. I would have voted yes to confirm despite my Agreements and he's proven himself to be. Okay. The point is I think that each president has a right to appoint the person of their choosing and that person so long as they're qualified should never be dragged through the mud. What has happened is is the Republicans have treated Democratic nominees who are scandal-free and eminently qualified, like dirt, but if they're Sonia Sotomayor, they were horrible. And they do. You bismal abhorrent and unforgivably.
So to judge Jackson, but I mean the way they Did Merrick Garland by not even giving him a mean I can get a thing but but for example, cavan on Thomas, we're baggage. They had major character flaws of whether they went to Yale and studied hard. Both in both different ways were really scummy human beings are but then again Ronald Reagan appointed Anthony Kennedy when the bork nomination failed and Anthony Kennedy, wrote the opera Phil decision on gay marriage, you know, David. Souter was appointed by h.w. Bush. He turned out to be pretty much a liberal famously Dwight. Our appointed, then Governor Earl Warren of California, Davis Warren court because he thought he was getting Eisenhower when he met conservative, but still thought he was getting a conservative and the Warren Court did everything from Brown V Board of Education, expanded civil rights due process, freedom of religion, all that stuff. You know, I said, I were famous. I was the worst mistake I ever made. There is a tradition of
people who are qualified to become a real judge, has no matter what party you belong to, or whoever nominates you ruling by the letter of the law and Robert does. I've been made me entirely happy because of the Voting Rights thing but in the last 10 years or so or five years, he's really been a central voice of decency and a modicum of I think, institutional Integrity. Because I think he believes in that though. I disagree with. And so my point in saying this is to point to the toxicity and politics every time we saw point a supreme court nominee. And this this the racism is is unforgivable. I'm not excusing. Yeah, it's great. You have to say it was terrible. She's so brilliant that she's so overqualified away. You know, we're going to be so lucky that, right. They are lucky. She's probably, she's probably one of the most qualified nominees that we've ever had. She's gonna be. I tweeted today. Judge Jackson did not deserve what she got, but she's going to give our democracy so much better
than it ever has ever by being here. But what I'm saying is I would like to have a era and we've had it many times in our history and even recent history, where every Supreme Court nominee is not a World, Wrestling Federation, drag them down, destroy the country moment because it is not good is not healthy for democracy and it speaks very ill of our society that we don't seem to understand or the Republicans on the Judiciary Committee. John cornyn, particularly doesn't seem to understand the separation of powers. Why judges are there to interpret the law? Do you know what I mean? If there's a lot of good people who are good, if you get appointed and do a very good job. Look at all those horrible judges. But not many of whom we would have liked it. W bush, and Trump appointed even. But W, bush a point. A lot of people and you know, what? A lot of them have ruled against Trump. A lot of them have ruled for gay marriage. A lot of them have ruled in favor woman's right to choose because they're
their judges. They're following the law. They're not a collection, you know, would they have been people? I would have chosen? No, because I'm social issues. I am left and I don't want those people. But, but if they have integrity, right, I'm not trying to be like beer and sexually assault people, or put pubic hair on a can of Coke. Or something, you know, you know there is a case to be made for their confirmation. Lot of people don't agree with this because the Supreme Court hangs by such a balance. To the point of like, oh my God, we have nine people doing it are legislator and I'm coming back to a point here. Tony, what you made? Not the president. Okay, and not the court, our legislature makes the laws and it should be Central to the way we do business to the point that if we actually had abortion into law and gay marriage into law, on a lot of things that law, the court. Appointments, the existence of what happens. Every conversation vacancy doesn't have to become a four-alarm fire.
It's not healthy for a court, right? Not about right or left to be the Last, Vestige of Hope between, or between hope and hel well, you know, the bulwark, I mean, that's just not healthy at all. My God. Ah, we won that decision. Oh, we lost our. Oh, uh, now we that that is not what the court should be doing. But are we have a dysfunctional system? Now, where our legislator, our Slater and our Congress folk and our Center can't getting done. Long-winded way of making your point but still I think. So. I'll give you some optimism here. Usually people here. My the the rhetoric for me to be pessimistic or fear-based because I believe a lot of times that does move votes, but I'll give you some optimism here because if you look at history and world history and whenever fascism rare, you know, Roars its head and here it is. Comes out of the comes out. The, the closet that it's in and spin to sleep in for a long time. There is a period in the world. That is like, maybe we shouldn't do that again.
And I think we're coming up on that period, especially worldwide, as we see fascism popping up around the world all over the place, probably because of the internet but there might be other reasons, but we're headed to a time in our world where we're going to go back to you simple ideas. Right? And I think I think the optimism ISM here is that we can get the era we can get gay rights. We can get abortion solidified into the legislator. I believe all that stuff as possible, because here's why I think that I think there's actually room. Maybe, not the Republican party, but a conservative quote, unquote conservative party to be pro-gay marriage to be pro-choice. If you believe the government should not be expanded, right? Roll. And I do because I worry, that people don't realize that a government. Too big. A government can become too scary. Right? A state can become the last thing. It should be doing is taking away my right to fucking Mary, get the hell out of anything. That's what it shouldn't
be doing. The debate should be yet, should be negotiating for lower prescription drugs. So people can afford their in someone else's government there to do. And if you're not there to go, do it in government, get the fuck out of government guys. Exactly. So I think there's an optimism here, even Even in our two-party system because at one time in our country, our two-party system conservative, Oohs and liberals lived in the same party because it wasn't conservatives and liberals that divided us. It was Federalist and Anti-Federalist that divided us. And I think, I think we're the optimism here, might be that, we're headed back to that part of our history, just in a new age, right? Where we look at, we look at issues through a different Periscope through a different lens and maybe maybe the parties are Federalist and Anti-Federalist as opposed to conservative liberal because when we get in this conservative liberal thing, that's where the autocracy really starts to. Oh my God, it's starting
to get it. Starting to get hairy. And as always, I love talking to you. We have to wrap up in two minutes here, but I love talking you. Because when you did the American history question me, and everyone should go back and listen that episode, you know, you know your shit, you know, your history. What you are saying is so true, the founders and I want everybody in the Federalist Papers, really, America's most significant work of political Theory. They were worried about what they called factions Federalist number 10, which meant parties, they knew that if we fended parties. Began shortly thereafter, but that if we if we all coalesced into parties and two factions into groups. This would become a mechanism by which the country would devour itself and the wisdom of those men, those Enlightenment influence men, you know, in 1789, you know, yeah, they were flawed. Yes, laborers in the country, a lot of bad stuff, but they understood political philosophy, and we are living out some of that tragedy
now, but but We go toilet area. Here's what I want to know. Did two big questions. Number one. What's going to happen in the midterms? And then number two? Are you optimistic about America answer? No particular. I think I think my optimism is is there as I showed in the last statement that I made and the reason why is because I think a lot of people don't understand America at this point. And that's the one little maybe glimmer of hope that Donald Trump gave us is more. People paid attention to what America is, what Civics are what democracy Is when they were worried about the groceries and they were worried about soccer practice. And and what was on TV in this reality show and who's going to win this competition here and who's going to win this football game. I think more people are paying attention to what our democracy is and what it isn't. And I think that gives me good optimism. I think more people, more people, pay attention. They will be that way. As far as the midterms, same thing.
I think more and more people are going to pay more and more attention as this ticks on. The only question that I have for the midterms rather, whether it goes in the way that Joe Biden needs it to go. And what I mean by that is for him to keep passing his agenda and and keeping fascism at Bay it because I think we're past some of this covid stuff, but I think I think that's going to depend on how many people get energized and on the pro-democracy side, with a lot of this pro-putin style fascism that is happening. Some of the, some of the stuff that they've done. I mean, they gave us soundbite racist, sound bite after racist sound bite. They've given us all the laws of why you why they're going to come after you and you should protect you and your children and your family. So I believe that that optimism is long as the Democrats can get that messaging there and they could do the old. Like you said Rick Wilson Republican style where they used the fear base to get people to understand why,
it's why? The boat is so important and what's at stake. I think there's good optimism for them. For Democrats to keep the house and actually get a bigger majority in the Senate where they can get rid of things, like the filibuster for voting rights. So, I think the optimism's there. Well, listen, Tony, I know that you are committed to this country to politics. You are a true patriot, but you really are a provocateur in the best sense. I tried. I don't know. And I've loved having you here. Thank you for joining me. Ladies, dumb and Tony Michaels, the 20, Michaels podcast, come back and see us anytime. Oh, thanks Adam. Thanks for. And you come on our show. Anytime you want buddy. I will see you soon.