How to Build Real Wealth as a Woman in Business (Not Just Revenue)

What does it really take to build wealth as a woman, not just revenue, not just “six-figure launches,” but actual sovereignty, power, and long-term financial freedom?

In this unapologetically raw and electrifying episode of The Tarryn Reeves Show, I sit down with the brilliant Natalie Bullen, Wealth Identity & Authority Coach, founder of Unapologetic Wealth, and the woman high-earning entrepreneurs trust when it’s time to go from busy… to wealthy.

Natalie doesn’t just teach money.
She teaches identity, who you must become to hold wealth, not just make it.

Together, we dive deep into:

✨ Why your “wealth identity” matters more than your revenue
 ✨ How subconscious beliefs, family conditioning, and nervous system patterns shape your bank account
 ✨ Why middle-class thinking is the ultimate wealth killer
 ✨ How entrepreneurs sabotage themselves through overspending, over-hiring, and over-consuming
 ✨ The number one reason launches fail and how to stop relying on them
 ✨ Why women must stop apologising for wanting to be rich (and why people will hate you when you get there)
 ✨ Why paying yourself is non-negotiable and what your P&L really says about your self-worth
✨ Bootstrapping essentials: how to stay solvent, scrappy, and strategic in your first 5–10 years of business
✨ The myth of work-life balance  and how to build wealth even when real life is messy
✨ The truth about high-ticket clients, hiring, and investing wisely as you scale
✨ The exact identity shift required to move from “making money” to “staying wealthy”

Natalie does not hold back.
This episode is fire, packed with mic-drop moments, uncomfortable truths, and the kind of calling-forward that will shift your entire relationship with money and power.

If you're a woman entrepreneur building first-generation wealth, this conversation is required listening.

This episode will remind you of one thing:
Wealth is not just a number.
It’s an identity you step into, unapologetically.

Connect with Natalie at unapologeticwealth.com

Transcript

0:39

Welcome back to another episode of the Taryn Reeves Show. Today, I'm joined by the fabulous Natalie Bullen, who is a wealth identity and authority coach for high earning entrepreneurs and affluent professionals. As the founder of Unapologetic Wealth, she helps ambitious women move beyond revenue milestones into true wealth, influence and power. Her work challenges outdated financial narratives and equips first generation wealth builders to think, decide and live like the wealthy woman they are becoming. Natalie, welcome to the Taryn Reeves Show. oh Thank you so much for having me. It is an absolute pleasure. I'm a member of your fabulous Facebook group. And I think that what you're building is truly incredible. And I can't wait to dive in and chat to you about it. Right now you call yourself a wealth identity coach. What exactly does that mean? And why is it so much deeper than just hitting a revenue goal in business? You know, this is what I've settled on. But when I come up with a better term, I'll use it. Right? It's always an iteration. But I used to be a licensed financial advisor. And if you say wealth coach, people think this is someone who's going to manage my investments. So hence the identity part. I also feel like there's an intersection because I can't speak for you, but I grew up middle class. Mm-hmm. grow up rich. I did not have a trust fund. No one has ever passed away and left me millions and millions of dollars. I bootstrapped this company with my own money. And so people think it's tactics that's going to get them rich. They're going to buy real estate. They're going to have a six figure launch. But if you don't know how to hold on to money, like how to manage it, how to prepare it, how to save it, how to protect it with insurance, if your brain tells you to consume and buy, or you're fearful of money, doesn't matter how much you have, you will make bad decisions with it. Lottery winners prove that for us all the time. We have live case studies on what happens when people jump tax brackets all of a sudden. So I think for me it's been huge because anybody can make money. You can sell anything. Anything can be sold. I've seen things that were sold that were outrageous and I'm sure you have as well. And someone bought them. But if you want to actually have what you claim you wanted when you started your business, which for most people is freedom, more time, flexible schedule, um, to be able to take good care of their kids and their spouse, then you have to get out of just, we're going to make money and move into I'm the sort of person with whom money is safe. I'm the type of person with whom money can depend on. I'm the sort of person who can delay gratification to have something more substantial later. than something temporary now. So hence how we've settled on wealth identity. Mmm, that's so interesting. And there's a few things that I can hear in that kind of explanation that you just gave me is that this is really work around your subconscious beliefs about money, your nervous system around money, your social and family conditioning around money. Like this is deep work, right? So how most people are walking around like zombies, little sheep in the grand system of society that has us ticking along. And they're very unaware of even their most basic thoughts really. They just, they're kind of consuming, they don't feel good. So they're to go out and, I don't know, drop $200 on their hair, which no judging if you've got that, you know, but if you don't have that and you're just doing it for that brief kind of flash in the brain that goes, oh, endorphins, I feel good now for five minutes until you watch the next TV ad or hear the next podcast ad or whatever it is. How does one even become aware of their current relationship with money? I most people have to hit rock bottom somewhere. So if you've gotten to where you have zero dollars in your business bank account, you've probably sorted. You've probably recognized, but I think at least Americans are slowly kind of waking up to the idea of, have a house full of crap, but I don't own anything. And I'm always having to buy things. And I am no psychologist, but I did read a study where the dopamine hit from buying something new is getting shorter over time. So where our grandparents might've been able to buy a new car and be happy and proud and content for five years, right? We buy a sweater that's $3,000 from Dolce and Gabbana and wear it one time and are already over it. And you see it in children too. They'll buy, get a toy. They'll play with it one time and want another toy. That's not common. My mom grew up in the 1940s and 1950s. She had the same toy 10 years. She was contented with it. So society has also pushed that, that hamster wheel of purchasing. You can never get off it now. You used to be able to get on, buy something, get off. And now you have to stay on it. And I think it's catching up to people. The debt. the lack of savings. think people are waking up thinking, maybe I should do something different, you know? And if you've ever seen your parents fight about money, if you've ever made a lot of money and not know what happened to it, it's one thing to spend. It's another to be surprised at your bank account. I don't go online and think I've got $10,000 and then I look and it's 2000. That never happens to me. But I, people report that to me so often. Yeah. thought they had more money left. And it's because they weren't even cognizant as they were spending it. So, you know, journaling is a really good place to start. um I use this company called 750 Words. It's free. And you can just go to 750words.com and you write 750 words a day and it gamifies it and nudges you and reminds you and you win little prizes and stuff. But every single day, what did you choose for yourself? And even that takes some level of self actualization because I think a lot of us aren't really even aware of what we want for us. We're living out someone else's vision that society has pushed on us. I'm not really all that keen on society. You know what? Society has never paid any of my bills. Isn't that weird? They're always around and they always have this really loud voice. I've never actually gotten a check from society. I must be missing something. You know, I must be the only person in the world that's like, not directly getting paid by the expectations of society. And so as long as my check is lost in the mail, I feel like I should just forget what society wants and do what I want. I think you also have to ask yourself if what you want is uncommon. If the average American can't even put their hands on a thousand dollars in savings and you want to be a multimillionaire, well, that's uncommon, right? So I would expect to have to do something different if I wanted an uncommon result. Yeah, I feel like we should just drop the mic right there. Like I love this. 100%. Yeah. Like society is not paying your bills. Your friend's opinion is not paying your bills. And I think that entrepreneurship is one of these things that is so tricky to navigate when it comes to money because of opinions. Because if you are surrounded by a family that is not entrepreneurial, or a partner or friends that are not entrepreneurial or running their own businesses and are used to the standard model of earning money of you go to work nine to five, you get two weeks off a year and then you retire at 70 and then you die. Basically, uh they're sitting there going, what are you doing? Why are you doing this? This makes no sense. And they have a lot of opinions around how we as entrepreneurs earn money, uh what we should and shouldn't say online. What's your opinion? yeah. Yeah, the, the... I think when you go into business for yourself, you've got to draw the line in the sand with what you will and won't accept. And I'm not telling you that this is going to be easy or that it's going to come naturally to you or that you're going to wake up with this epiphany and know exactly where to draw it. I think as people interact with you, you will learn where your line is. You know, I have a wonderful Christian God fearing mother who loves God, doesn't curse, doesn't drink, loves the Lord. Mm. I put the word damn on the internet, my mother is like, you really didn't have to use foul language to get your point across. Right? She doesn't want me to post anything political. She doesn't want me to post anything that's anti-marriage or anti-partnership, even to the degree of telling single women that singlehood is a gift. Like even saying that my mother feels like is anti-marriage. And that I should not say on the internet because that makes it seem as though God and his views of marriage are wrong. Right? Like, I mean, any little thing that I put on the internet, but I'm online as a thought leader and leaders have to lead. Leaders can't be worried about what the followers are. That's not how this works. You're in the front with a megaphone. So if that's your brand and maybe it's not your brand, right? My next company will be mostly faceless. I'm going to offer bookkeeping and light CFO services. My prayer is that you never know that I own it, but this business People know me and they know that I will say what needs to be said. And so I'm more involved in saying what needs to be said than does my mother like it? Does my dad like it? Does my church like it? Do my college friends like it? Do my past clients like it? Is everyone going to be in alignment? Because if everybody in the world agrees, baby, it's not thought leadership. It's not even a thought. It's a societal belief. And we all already have that soundtrack. That's You remember when you too put, when iPhone put U2's CD on everybody's iPhone. It was a big thing in the U S U2 had a CD that just came out and I guess they, I don't know, slept with someone at Apple. was very strange and they downloaded the CD and it came preloaded on every iPhone ship that shipped that year. And it was insane. And we all had to delete. It was a horrible CD. U2 was having like a comeback or something. It was crazy. Yep. That's what societal beliefs are. They're literally already downloaded on our hard drive. We don't, we don't need new ones. I think you've got to ask yourself, am I more worried about people's opinions or am I more worried about getting paid? Now I am breadwinner. Okay. My husband works, but I earn significantly more than he does. And if I don't earn what I earn, then we won't live where we live. We might not live anywhere. And so I just can't see myself letting someone else's opinion. anybody's eclipse paying my mortgage. And that's really what it comes down to. Now, if your business is a hobby and it ain't got to make money and you can frolic in the sunlight and all of your bills get paid through osmosis, baby, I wish you the best and more power to you. Nothing I say is going to feel very relevant, but if your check is what keeps your lights on, I just don't know how you can, I just don't know how you can care. Mm, yeah, 100. to care. Maybe I want to care. I just don't have the luxury to care. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Natalie, I love the fact that you have pointed out the very basic line that nobody talks about about thought leadership because everyone else on social media with a personal brand going, I'm a thought leader in this, I'm a thought leader in this, but they're, excuse my language, pussy footing around what actually needs to be said. How did you, like, were you born this way? Have you always been an out... opinion at all. Absolutely not unfortunately. I love it. I'm insane. that I have the DNA of feather ruffling. Yeah, you know, I've always, when I was a child, I would ask adults to read me a story. And if I didn't like how they read it, would snatch the book away and read it myself. Like I was a menace. oh It's crazy when I hear the stories from my brothers and my mom, just like, why didn't y'all discipline me? I was off the chain. And they were like, You were gifted. You made straight A's. You didn't get in trouble. We didn't think it was wrong. We just wondered if you'd ever make friends. Here's my belief system. I believe that what's done in the dark comes to light. And I believe that the truth is always going to, it's like oil and vinegar, the truth will always separate. So I could pretend to be normal and coddle people whose businesses don't make any money and tell them it's okay. And I could pretend like the US economy is really strong and that we're not drowning in debt. I could pretend like our current administration is really looking out for the people and then I could do that stuff, but like eventually it's all gonna come out, right? Like it's all going to be illuminated what is true. And I would rather be on the right side of the schism if the schism ever occurs. I also really don't like the statistics that exist. Did you know that black wealth is set to hit zero by the year 2053? My goodness, that's horrifying. net worth of the collective black population in an entire country, a first world country, let us tell it, is going to hit $0 and zero set in our lifetime in 28 years. Now, what would me downplaying the dire urgency of that, not helping people achieve wealth, pretending like There's nothing we can do. What would it really serve? You know? And I think that comes back to being really self-aware. I feel like every human was put here for a purpose. Even if you don't believe in God, I hope you believe that you have a purpose, right? The listener. And so whatever your purpose is, it's to be a change agent. Something, homelessness or domestic violence or poverty. I would hope that there's some cause that you feel strongly called to solve. you're not going to solve it pretending like it doesn't exist. That is not how problems get solved. And so I think eventually you just get to a point where you're know what? Everyone's not going to like me for this. And that is okay. There are people who think it's unethical to have profit in your business. Good Lord. What do do with that? And, and I know it sounds mean, but why would I argue with someone who's going to go out of business anyway? If you have no problem, you're going to go out of business. So there's really no point in me even letting myself get ruffled with you, right? Like, Hey, more power to you, you and your profitless business. Mmm. Mmm. that's where most people get stuck, especially women. They want to save and rescue everyone. Yeah, I don't have that. I don't have that trait. Maybe because I'm not a mom. I'm actually not the nurturing, lovey type. Like if you want to fail, fail. There's too many people who want to succeed for me to spend all of my time arguing on the internet with people who don't want profit, don't want money, think all rich people are bad. Like I don't believe that those are narratives worth trying to debunk. If you really want to believe that stuff, nothing I say is going to change your mind anyway. And I think living in accordance with my beliefs is probably the strongest thing I could do to change people. Maybe when people meet me, when I'm really, really, really rich and they recognize that I'm still a really good, decent person, that would probably shift their belief a lot faster than the alternative, right? Arguing and factoids. Nobody cares about that. Until I'm rich, no one will care. So my goal is to just get really rich and kind of prove to people what that can look like. Yep, and that right there is the essence of leadership, right? You lead by example, not by, you know, beating people over the ear with, should do this, you should do this. You just go, that's cool, you do you, good luck, love you still. Now I'm gonna go do my thing. Let's talk purpose. Is your purpose teaching people how to build generational wealth? Um, you know, I think my purpose is probably showing people that wealth is even possible. Like, ideally, yes, we want people to have generational wealth, but let's be honest, you've got to have personal wealth first. And that is something most of us have not achieved. And before you can have personal wealth, you're going to have to have financial solvency, which many people do not have. Many people are insolvent. They're only still afloat by the use of credit. Now you can have $100,000 in credit card debt and as long as you make your minimum payments, the world says you're successful, right? I would say that person is insolvent, especially if they don't have enough cash to pay the debt off. I don't care what you can pay monthly. If you can't pay it off, there's an issue. So I think for me, it's more how do people step into having personal wealth? Generational wealth is always the goal. But you got to have it first. And that seems to be the big hurdle. People are more likely to do for their kids than they are to do for themselves. And that's backwards. How can you leave a lineage to your children if you have nothing? This is why I get frustrated when parents will take out loans for college. They want to take on all the debt. Kids don't take any debt. They take all the debt. There's no loans for retirement. I'd rather the debt be on the child than on the adult. But the adults are like, no, I'd rather... give my all, I'd rather deplete my savings. I'm going to give them all my cash. Why? That's hustling backwards. That moves the wealth out of the elders hands and into the younger generation's hands while the elders are still living. So definitely showcasing to people that they can break from middle classness for sure. Middle class is a curse. People think being impoverished is the worst, but most countries have social safety nets for people who are truly poor. There's not any kind of social safety net for the middle class that I've ever heard of or read. And as a longstanding member of the upper class for most of my life, let me tell I never got any benefit. And so how do you decide I want to break from this tax bracket and do something else? That's what I want to do for people. Brilliant. And what is the first step for the person who is listening, whose business is insolvent, who knows that they have the potential and is self-aware enough to want to move out of the middle-class bracket, the hamster wheel that they find themselves on? Where do they start? Look at your numbers. Like get really honest, really honest. Pull your P and L for the last three months and assess was there profit or was there a loss? If there was a loss, was it because your revenue was too low or was it because your expenses were too high? If your expenses are too high, what can you cut? And most of us have too much team, but if your revenue is low, why do you need lot of team? Hmm. You wonder why big companies have seasonal hires. That's why when they have really big seasonal revenue, they hire up. And then when they have regular revenue, they scale down. It might be that your revenue is low. Okay. So what's not working in your marketing and in your sales? Why is your revenue low? And I think that's a shame spiral for people that have low revenue. They don't know what to do about it. They overspend hiring. maybe the wrong coaching program or um trying to do their own ads, right? They're spending money, maybe not in the right buckets, but business is about a value transfer. You have to be able to show where you can transfer value to a buyer. If buyers don't see the value, that is a problem. You've got to fix that problem before you spend any more money on anything. So I would tell that person, what can you cut expense wise, even if it's temporary? um especially software, you know, I've had software that I would use for two months and then wouldn't use for six months. Cut it off. You can always come back. Those SaaS companies would love to have you back as a client. They're not going to ban you for the rest of your life because you shut off the service for a little while. And then look at how you can increase revenue. You know, most people are in one vertical and when that vertical stops working, they don't move. So if you're a coach or consultant, And it's been slow to get private coaching clients. People think, well, there's nothing I can do because no one's interested. Could you license your IP? Could you get a digital product strategy? Could you write a book and use that to get you on stages? Could you be a speaker or a trainer? Is there not some past client that maybe works for a corporation that would pay to have you come in and speak? What could you do to bring up money? I think a lot of times when we're low in cashflow, We get dejected and we just kind of accept our fate and just kind of wait for the train to run us over instead of saying, what, how can I get curious? How can I get really curious about what exactly is going on and why the money is not in alignment with my divine gift? I have a gift. The money's not here. Where is the disconnect? But most people don't even know these things because they're not looking at their books. They're not looking at their taxes. They're not looking at their cashflow. you have to decide that you are going to look at money and not being good with numbers or not being good with money is a terrible excuse. That's like having a baby and saying, I'm not good at parenting. I'm just going to like, I'm just going to neglect my baby because I'm just not all that. I'm not, not really good with babies. Well, you had a baby, so you're to have to get good with babies, right? Like that's just what's going to happen. So if you have a business, you're going to have to get good at the main parts of business. And finance is, unfortunately for a lot of people, it is the key component of running the business. So step one, look at your numbers. If you don't have P &L, Bookkeeper, QuickBooks, you got to get that resolved because you can't make good decisions without financial data. Yep, 100%. And as someone who is in the trenches, I am the sole breadwinner in my family. I've got two little kiddies uh You know, when things happen in your personal life as well that as an entrepreneur, I'm sorry, your business is not separate to your personal life. There's none of this bull crap work life balance. It doesn't happen. Sometimes you're more in your business. Sometimes you're more in your personal life. And sometimes one derails the other. That's just the way it is. It's true. that stuff happens, yes, your spreadsheets are not sexy. Like I hate numbers. I hate maths. I don't like it. Right. But like you said, I chose to have a baby in the form of a business, which means that I have to do... So I hired a bookkeeper because I don't know how to use Xero, which is the accounting software that I use. I'm like, I don't actually want to... spend the time learning because you have it's a choice. You can spend the time learning or you spend the money for someone else who has already done it. It's the age-old entrepreneurship. You either spend the time learning or you spend the money learning. That's the baseline, right? So I do my spreadsheet every Monday. It's really ugly, but I have funned it up. I've got little colored charts. I've got little charts in there to make it visually nicer for me. And I have my accountant. And then you are right about your, um, your softwares and things. I love jumping on startups that you pay a lifetime fee for and you never pay the accounting thing again. My tech stack, and I used to own a virtual assistance and web development company before I moved into publishing. Um, so I'm all about the systems and the shiny new tech that comes out and yeah, it's fun to play with, but the smart move is to go, how can I make this as streamlined? possible so that I'm not bleeding money every single month or week or whatever it is for these subscriptions. And I mean, it's powerful to be able to route that money. And what I tell people all the time, business and personal finances should be separate, but for most people they aren't. And so if you're not paying yourself what you want, every extra dollar that you spend in the business is money that could have gone into your pay. That's something that even I had to come to terms with. Like, you know, if I want to buy this $30,000 thing for my business. Well, that's $30,000 that could have been a distribution for Natalie, right? That could have helped Natalie build wealth and retire faster and buy real estate or buy a chateau or whatever. So everything that is happening in the business, I always have to inquire internally, is this the best use of this money? It's not free money because it's in your business. And I think we've kind of been taught that there's been a very big push online that the more you spend, the more empowered you are. uh of us are coming down off of a spending hangover that's been going on several years and we're waking up going, wait, why am I paying my team more than I pay myself? Why do I have all these high priced people on my roster? Why am I in set? I met a woman in six coaching programs simultaneously, all at the same time. And she had booked a sales call with me and I was like, now what could I possibly add? Right? What could I possibly contribute to a business that's already got six different mentor, coach, consultant, advisor type people. where is she even finding the time to action those six different strategies? I didn't take her as a client because I'm like, there's no way you have space for integration. And I find that we are more powerful internally than we think. This is actually part of that wealth identity work. You know, when you are afraid of money, when you have been taught that money is bad, um, when you have an aversion to having a lot of money or numbers, et cetera, you get rid of it. So I'll notice people who have bad relationships with money. will overspend. They'll have these six figure launches, seven figure launches, hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's gone in two weekends. They spend it on this mastermind. They spend it on a retreat. They spend it on energy work. They spend it on a whole bunch of team. They pay out tons of affiliates. They pay for all the software and they're left with peanuts in the end because it felt safer for that money to not be in their bank account. And so at some point you have to see You are the gift. I'm the best thing that unapologetic wealth has going for it. Not the ads that we run, not, you know, I mean, my team's phenomenal. Don't get me wrong, but my wisdom and my vision is the best thing. That is the competitive advantage. The more money I spend away from that, hiring a whole bunch of people, going in too many different directions, having too many initiatives. The worse off we are, the best thing I did for my company was to take a hiatus and actually hear my own voice again and move forward with the vision that I felt like God gave me. And that is not nearly as expensive as the running that most of us are doing. Running from success, running from greatness, running from having to be the one responsible for having too much money. Why do you think that we seem to be hardwired to do that? Consumerism, capitalism, consumerism. Capitalism on its face is not bad. It's the reason I'm in business. Don't get me wrong. But I don't know. um I'm only 37. It's not like I'm an old person. But when I was a child, greeting cards were a really small business. You got greeting cards for Mother's Day, Father's Day, Christmas. There was a big push around Easter. That's about it. When I was a child, that's all I remember. Valentine's day was big, but in general, there were only five to six card buying holidays. Now there are hundreds. I went to Target last week to buy a greeting card and there was seven aisles of greeting cards. I mean, they were back to back, but still like it was down the back, down the aisle back, down the aisle back and down the aisle again. Seven. of greeting cards. They had greeting cards for Easter, for graduation, for Halloween, for just because, for baby shower, for you just got married, you just got engaged, grandparents day, uncles day, aunts day. It was shocking to me. It was so hard. It was so many options. I thought I was in the Hallmark store. I was flabbergasted at the greeting card business. So now the greeting card companies have just found a way. to get us buying greeting cards all the time. There's a reason two, three times a month now to buy greeting cards when that didn't used to be the case. So you have to keep creating demand. I was looking for some laundry detergent in uh Walmart and I get in the aisle and I see this like sanitizing stuff that you put in the wash and I was like, Is this soap? Is this detergent? And I'm looking at it and I'm turning it over. And then there's this stuff you sprinkle in some kind of downy, like, like light seasoning, like actual like scent beads for the laundry. I asked the associate, said, where's just detergent? She said, these are laundry, like accessories, the detergents on another aisle. They have a whole aisle of non detergent additives that you can put with the detergent. to make the laundry either smell a certain way or be sanitized, et cetera. When I was growing up, the only thing you did was put laundry in there. didn't laundry and laundry detergent. That's it. was one, and it wasn't even fabric softener, it one product. Now there's six different products that you can put and all of those things create gunk and buildup. So now you can buy laundry like a washing machine cleaner to clean all the residue from all the additional products that you're putting to clean the laundry. This is what happens. machine because they're not designed to last that long at all. I have a really old washing machine, so it's built to last. It's like one of those before the planned obsolescence, but it's by design. It's how companies make more money. They just create new products and then they convince us that the way that we've been was not sufficient, that we need these new products to be happy. So we're always on this hamster wheel. This is why it's important for you to recognize how much money do you have? What is your budget? What do you need? and accept that you can't buy everything all at one time. There are so many programs, products, retreats that I want to join, but I am overextended and I'm overextended for free. I have my own conference. I have private clients. I do 30 podcasts, recordings a year. I'm nuts, right? So I am just, and that's just the stuff I can remember. I'm writing a book. I'm launching a public podcast. I have another private podcast coming out. have a phenomenal community that is in a category that doesn't really exist. So it's taking a lot of push and marketing to kind of get people to wrap their mind around a community that's not a mastermind, it's not coaching, it's not a social club. What is it, right? So I got way too much going on to willingly buy other things, but I think... Sometimes when we're sad, when we're lonely, when we don't feel good about the business, when we don't feel good about ourselves and our dark little moments, pull out the credit card, buy something to make ourselves feel better. And in business, that manifests into quite the expensive habit. So really being accountable financially to somebody, my bookkeeper is a shark. Okay, she... she will fuss at me. Like she will watch the transactions and be like, I'm sorry, what is this? What did you buy? Why did you buy it? Does it have a look period? Can you return it? Like what's going on? So knowing that there's someone over my shoulder watching to make sure that the money that we said was going to be spent in the forecast is actually what got spent has been useful. Maybe folks need that. You know, there's no shame in my game. I've I've been in almost every bad financial situation you can think of. So you can't shame me. I have no money shame. And I'm willing to do whatever it takes to build an empire and have a business that actually makes me rich. Because otherwise I just had a job, a really hard job that I had to build from scratch. And that doesn't sound fun at all, right? Like I could probably go find a six figure job and work, I don't know, 20 % as much. So that's what I'm excited about. How can I funnel more of this money into my pocket since I'm the one that's making the sacrifice instead of everyone else's pocket? Yeah, and that in itself is a mindset shift that I find so many entrepreneurs need to make because 90 % of them are not paying themselves anything and having to live. And it makes me so sad. If you're listening to this and you don't pay yourself anything, start, I don't care if it's $500 a month, you have to retrain your subconscious that you are important and see, you cannot be important to the business if you're not a line item on the P and L. Everything that's important to the business is a line item, either on the P and L or the balance sheet. So if you don't have numbers on either of those documents, you're actually telling your brain, that you're not important to this business at all, that you don't matter to this operation, that software is more important. You pay $100 a month for QuickBooks. QuickBooks is more important than you, right? Like you have to really get into the mechanics. You're not volunteering for your company. You are leading the company. You're a visionary. And maybe this is just me, but I'd be damned if I treat myself worse than an employer would have. Hmm. How many of us quit jobs because they didn't pay enough and they have no work life balance? So many people are being abused by their own companies and using the excuse that they own it as the reason. Well, at least I own my company. You own something that loses money and can't pay you anything. That's sad. That is, that is sad. Like you deserve to be compensated because when you don't compensate yourself, you harm yourself. In the United States, we get social security. Your social security is based on your 40 highest earning quarters or your 10 highest earning years. So if you go into business, cash out your retirement from your job to start the business and work for free for years and years, your social security is going to be nothing. Your retirement is going to be nothing because your retirement is based on your income. If you don't have an income, you cannot contribute to an IRA. You cannot contribute to a 401k. It is all based on income. So when you opt out of having income, you are saying, I'm okay with being a poor 75 year old person. And I've met poor 75 year old people. It is the saddest thing watching elderly people not have the money for groceries, not have money for pharmaceutical interventions, not have $10 for prescriptions. I've had to pay $10, $20 for people's prescriptions in the line because they had to choose between which one they were going to buy. Yeah, I see. sign up for that. But when we don't, when we aren't educated about wealth, we don't know. So people think, well, just for a few years, I'm going to make this sacrifice. But is it ever really a year or two? No. And it also harms the spouse that's paying all the bills because you're taking time away from your kids and your family to work full time in a business that can't pay you full time wage. So to me, I'm only willing to work full time in my business if my business can pay me. a full time wage. It doesn't have to be lavish, but it needs to be comparable to a job that I could go out and get with my skillset for sure. 100%. Now, Natalie, you've bootstrapped your company. I've bootstrapped mine. Let's talk bootstrapping very briefly. How does one get out of, because when you first start, you are bootstrapping, right? And you, when we say pay yourself first, but there comes a time where it's like, oh, you know, I, I've got this tiny little bit and maybe my wage goes down to $5, whatever it is, um, that week. And I'm doing this, you know, outlaying this money because I don't have the skill set to edit this video or I don't know, set up this course platform, whatever it is that you have the skill set to do, you have to outlay money. And then you perhaps like do all the invest money in a launch, right? And it doesn't go as planned. Overcome these challenges when we're bootstrapping our companies. Give us some practical tips. I think it's important before you embark in any kind of spend to recognize that everything is an experiment. So often when I meet people whose launches have had issues and it caused them to not be able to make payroll or pay themselves, it's because they were hinging on that launch being successful. And I think that is a mistake. I don't care how many times you've launched anything, you cannot be 100 % certain. that this conversion event is actually going to be profitable. So I always tell people have some kind of cash cushion. If clients are paying you money, setting aside even 5 % of what they're paying you is so important. Now I'm team high ticket. I don't run a low ticket business mostly because volume freaks me out. So I'm used to having people pay me 1000, 2500, 5000, sometimes even 10 or 15,000 in one big lump sum. So it can feel easier for me to save because I'm saving right off the top. I usually encourage people get to a savings of one X, the most expensive thing that you sell as a benchmark, because that will relieve some of this pressure of what happens if my launch doesn't work? What happens if I have to pay someone to run my YouTube channel? What happens? What happens? What happens? So I'm going to say, go back to... saving. And if you can't save five or 10 % of what people are paying you, you might not be charging enough, right? There might not be enough margin in the offer because every single offer should have profit. So you should be able to slice some profit right off the top and put into a savings. If that's not the case, there's probably not enough profit in the offer because when people don't pay themselves, they don't put their pay. and compute it into the price of the service. The price of the service is sans any payment to them, which is incorrect because they're spending their time delivering the service. So even if you aren't paying yourself, if you don't price for paying yourself, you can never afford to pay yourself. You're going to have to raise the price to where it could pay you in order to pay you. um Two, I think that OPM is overlooked. I had a Stripe loan. probably six months into my business. And I knew that I could pay it back because I had the sales. So I think if you've got the cashflow, if you've got sales coming in, don't be afraid to say in order for us to hire this person we need or in order for us to pay for marketing, right? We need some cash. Where can we get it? People don't apply for grants nearly as much as they should. So I think make... having enough money to run the business be your full-time job. There's only two problems in business. There's either not enough money or not enough time. All problems in business fall into one of those two buckets, every single one. So if sales are slow, you don't have enough money. And if you don't have enough money, that should mean you have time. Right? So your full-time job when you don't have clients is How can I lower costs? How can I streamline operations? How can I increase demand? How can I get leads? How can I close them? When you don't have money, you should have time. Take the time to make the money. Inversely, if you have money, lots of clients, things are busy, but you're strapped on time, that's when you can look at how can I make my system simpler? How can I make my business easier? How can I hire people to offload some of the work I'm doing? And Stop hiring overpriced help. This is the biggest thing I've probably learned in the last few years. If you need a person on a consistent basis working 20, 30, 40 hours, it's probably cheaper to get an employee. And don't try to convert an online OBM VA type person. Go on LinkedIn, go on Glassdoor, write a job posting, interview people who want to be employees. Mmm. those people are going to accept an hourly wage that's not equivalent to their big retainer. Right? You know, I'll see people paying five, $6,000 a month for 40 or 50 hours of support from these really high level strategic people, but then they have no one to write an email. And I'm like, if you had a person who wanted to work a job and who was willing to work an hourly rate and you interviewed them, you gave them a test project and you brought them in as an employee, your costs over time will be so much lower. I tens of thousands of dollars trying to hire consultant type, coach type, OBM type people who would say, Oh, I don't mind getting in the weeds. I don't mind doing the work. The work is not something they really ever wanted to do. They really only want to do the strategy and you're paying top dollar for that strategy. When you really need somebody whose hands are on the keyboard doing the work every day. And if you're paying 50, 60, 70, 80, $100 an hour for someone to write your emails or build your funnels, you're way overpaying. And people are like, no one's paying $100 an hour. A lot of people are bundled into these retainers that they've never really, they're not selling it in an hourly rate and you've never done the math. So really being careful about what do I need in this season? Do I need someone to hold me accountable and help me hit my goal? That's a coach. Do I need someone to uh assess what I've got going on and make recommendations? That's a consultant. Do I need somebody to bounce ideas off of because I don't really know which way to go? That's a thought partner. Or do I need someone to assess my marketing ecosystem and spearhead the launch? Might be a marketing coordinator. So knowing what you need and hiring an appropriate fit at a reasonable cost, that's how you stay in business long enough to bootstrap. That's how you make it. Right? But as long as you're overpaying everybody but yourself, you won't make it. Yep, and I find this so funny. I think I have made pretty much every single one of those mistakes that you just shared. These are life learned mistakes. Let me tell you, the only mistake I didn't make maybe was I got funding early on. So when I meet people who are like, I've been in business five years and I've never taken a loan. I'm like, yeah, I can't relate to that. I had a loan year one, but other than that, I've made every mistake. Yeah, and when you do get into those weeds in those mistakes and you're going, shit, like what do I do now? You do have to think outside the box and you do have to maybe get a little bit scrappy and that is what makes a difference, I believe, for a business that truly succeeds is when the leader can think outside the box and they can get scrappy and they make a plan versus the ones who just get further and further and further into debt and still refuse to wave the white flag. Yeah, you got to do something. mean, even if it's minor, you'd be surprised. You know, if you've got someone on a $2,500 a month retainer, they'd probably let you pay them $2,000, obviously do a little bit less work, but that's $500 bank. You can audit all of your software. You can look at any and all expenses. You know, I've had really high years where we paid a ton of money in financial management and changed with S-Corp and had to do some really interesting tax maneuvers. But on a regular year, we don't need to be paying $1,500 a month for financial management. like being willing to partner with people and say, this is the level of support I need right now. How much would it cost? And not letting yourself get caught up in ego. That's the real issue. People's ego won't let them admit that they can't afford something anymore. So they keep trying to pay it to their own detriment. I've met people in masterminds and coaching programs. They're three, four, five months behind in payments. They don't even have to stay in it, but people knowing that they couldn't afford it or people thinking they couldn't afford it pushes them to stay in these programs longer than they ought to. When money is tight, you got to make it work. like often people just aren't strong enough in sales. They're pretty passive. You know, I'll meet people who tell me that they're strapped for cash and I'm like, okay, what's your pipeline look like? I don't have a pipeline. I don't have a CRM. I don't have any leads. You don't have any leads? What's the point of being in business if you don't have any leads? That's like the scariest sentence in business. I don't have any leads. What did you, when you built the program, who did you have in mind? no, it's just a program I wanted to do. You know, and so that's what I mean. And so like, you know, I think, and to the other end, making sure you're serving people who are going to stay in business. I do not serve early, early stage entrepreneurs one-on-one. I do have a sales challenge every quarter. and you could be making two or three or five K a month and get in it. It's a thousand dollars and it's going to help you sell and message better. It's the appropriate offer. But in general, all of my offers are for people who either have at least six figure revenue and some of them are for a six figure personal income because I do not have a bandwidth or the appropriate program to try to save somebody's business that's losing money every month that has no clients, has no leads, has no marketing. That's not being mean. It's me saying, I don't have a skillset I'm the wrong coach to hire. If you are in a place where it's too expensive, why would you pay me $3,000 a month that you don't even have for me to give you advice that you probably can't even take because you have no implementers on the team? You see what I mean? Like, I feel like you should put the right people in the right offer. And the smartest thing I did for my cashflow was sell to people with money. Sell people with money who've got enough space to implement and enough team to do the work and enough going for themselves in terms of momentum where I can just tweak and refine. And yes, you can do this with your lead magnet or yes, I would change that on the website. Instead of someone you've got to try to pull to success that you pray to God is going to be able to pay your invoice. I'm not in a position where I can afford for people to not pay my invoices. I don't know if I'll ever be in that position, but I'm damn sure not in that position now. So why would I sell to people that I already see are in duress? And we see it all the time. People build whole business models around people who aren't really in the best place to do the work. And I find that in the beginning, we have to protect ourselves. So what can you do to stay afloat the first five to 10 years when most businesses go under? And the answer is selling to people who have the financial means and the space and readiness and the company need. for your services. That's how you stay in business. Almost every cashflow problem I talk to people, it's usually offer audience mismatch. It's trying to get group A to buy product B when they don't have the money or the understanding or the interest in whatever offer B is. And the CEO is so enamored with the offer, they cannot accept that people don't want to buy it. Sometimes you just got to kill it. Yep, you've got to kill your darlings. So you do work with high earning entrepreneurs. Is that the biggest myth about money that you see that they like, what is the most common myth about money that you see these these women kind of being challenged with? women with high revenue businesses usually either think I make a lot. So that gives me the liberty to spend a lot or it's I earn a lot and I'm going to hoard it in case the other shoe falls. So it's either YOLO lifestyle or super cautious. I'm terrified. And so like, if you, if you think I can make money, I'm going to spend money. What happens when you can't make it? So many people had huge businesses in 2020, 2021, money was raining out the sky. Everybody bought everything. You didn't need positioning, you didn't need ads, you didn't need a Facebook group. You just went out, you made one post and people bought it. I lived that life. For most people that has changed and things have gotten back to normal. And now you have to have a real funnel and a real system and you have to nurture people for a considerable amount of time to be able to get them to pay you money. And so a lot of people who've been in that kind of you only live once thing, they're used to spend a check and get it right back and now they can't get it right back. Um, I think true high earning entrepreneurs have moved off of business altogether. and are thinking to themselves, what's next? I already have a business that makes money. I have a funnel that's a well machine. I have employees. So what is my next step? And that's being able to have true community. You I can say personally that I'm tired of being in transactional communities where people only invite me in because they either think I have money and I'm going to buy their stuff or they're looking for me to mentor or coach or lead or contribute in some way. to this community, right? So I get in there and they're like, great, Nat's here. Nat, tell everybody that thing that you told us about the economic changes in China. And I'm like... Yeah. I didn't know I was on. I didn't know that's what we were doing here. that's what I'm seeing a big push for people who have earned the money. They're now looking, how can I rest more? You know, I'm seeing a huge shift from professional development to personal development, rest coaches, sex coaches, retreats, communities like my cashmere club where people can just be and they don't have to be expected to be on or facilitate conversations. They can just have dialogue about the things that are of interest to them with other people who get it. They won't be jealous of their money. So I think that's what we're going to see is a resurgence of the non-business coach because for years, everybody tried to shoehorn everything they did and call it business coaching. You're a sales coach, business coach. You are ad strategist, business coach. You are marriage, whatever, business coach. Mm-hmm see everybody try to tie it. didn't matter what they do. They could be an alopecia specialist. They say, I'm going to make you a wig. So when you go out on stage in your business, I mean, matter what people saw it could be a gut health strategist. They're like, did you know when your gut is off that your entrepreneurial revenue drops 10%? mean, it was obscene. There was no niche that was safe. None of them, the perimenopausal people were calling themselves business hormonal strategists. mean, it was terrible. And so I think we're going to get back to a normal vernacular where people are not just choosing abstract, crazy words that somehow meant business. And I think we're going to recognize if you sell a non-business item, it has to come out of people's personal income. And you're going to have to sell to a much higher qualified person than you used to. That's the biggest shift that has happened. And I've run into this issue. You know, I used to coach people who were lower revenue businesses because I didn't know they were lower revenue businesses because they were paying my fee and my fee was expensive. Right. And so now we've kind of had a resurgence of, I think things have become more balanced. And so I think the business owners who need to make more money are waking up and recognizing if I don't get my sales together. and get in a program where I learn how to market and sell and position my stuff, I need to do something else. I think the people who are used to overspending are waking up and realizing this is incredibly risky and I need to have a cash reserve. Unapologetic Wealth has six figure cash reserves. So I'm not terrified if a launch doesn't work, I can make payroll on the first. It's not a problem. We have time to retool, try again, try again, try again. It's not a dire urgency. um And I think people who are making money are going to get away from these heavy-handed pushy business communities altogether and start seeking out refuge um to create social wealth and emotional wealth and mental wealth and relational wealth, not just financial wealth because they've already achieved that. Mm. Yep. So true. Nat, what does it mean to build wealth unapologetically in a world that often tells us women that we must stay small? not giving a damn about other people's opinions. People are not going to like me when I get rich. And I'm not saying that in jest. I mean it. Taryn, people are going to turn on me. All these wonderful comments that you see on my page. We love Natalie. You've never seen the derogatory comment on my page. It's not because I delete them. It's because they don't happen. You've never, you follow me on, you've never seen a person go, I hate her. her page is so this and that you'll never see it. When I get rich to the level that people determine is too much, all of that will turn all of it. You just have to accept it. And so I think being unapologetic is saying I want to be really rich and I'm not going to tell you I'm sorry about it. I'm not going to justify it with philanthropic efforts. That's what they want rich people to do, right? That's what people want. People want me to say, I want to be a, I want to have a net worth of $100 million so that I can oh end homelessness so that I can end hunger so that I can give to the children in Africa so I can start 12 nonprofits so I can give it all away. That's what people want me to say. If I say I want to get really rich so I can live like the Kardashians, get my face full of Botox and fillers, get a BBL, travel to Monaco to see the races, get custom made beautiful clothes by the most famous Italian designers drive around in expensive luxury cars, have a home on every continent and eat lavish food. I want to have a butler and a maid and a chef and a chauffeur. The comments would be so hate-filled. We would have to turn them off. So you, kind of got to accept that there's a point where people going to stop liking you. And that's the point that they feel like you doing better than them. Yeah, I got my first hater last week on TikTok and I was like, huh? And I was like, should I be upset about this? And I think I was upset for about five minutes and then I was like, actually, I was like, you haven't even read my book. I can tell you haven't even read my book. Anyway, I didn't say what I wanted to say back. I just gracefully let it go because I probably would have made them cry if I'd wanted to say what I said back. I don't have that skill. Here's my thing too, especially being Black, people expect Black women to be poor. And I don't say this in a shady way. Listeners don't take this shady. Black women are expected to only make content that serves the lower income masses. When Black women's covers on the face of a money book, what's it about? Budgeting, saving. credit repair. Think about it. When black women have a platform about money, it is almost always financial literacy. It's almost always helping people with very low incomes to start trying to scrape by almost always. And I've done financial literacy. I've done the work. Okay. For y'all come from me. I've done way more free financial literacy presentations than anybody who's ever hated on me. But you never see black women talk about hedge funds, private equity. wreaths, syndication deals. As soon as you start talking about that, then all of a sudden it's an issue, right? My cashmere club, you have to have at least 150,000 personal income. The women in there usually make between 150 and 500 K. Personal income, that's payment to them. That's not revenue. And I have already started getting quiet backlash of, well, other women need a space. Middle-class women need a space. They absolutely do. And they probably already exist because the middle class is huge. Right? But don't wealthy people or emerging affluent women, don't they deserve a space too? Why do we decide that people with money suddenly aren't human anymore and they have way less problems and way less need for community? I've never felt lonelier than when I made more money. Let me tell you, when I was poor, I had so many social connections. would all commiserate together about how poor We were, we would celebrate on payday because we were so happy to get paid and we'd order pizza and we'd be full for the first time in three or four days. Okay. We'd work overtime together. had love and friendship. My friendships have halved and halved and halved again since I've been more successful. So it's completely ludicrous that a person with money stops being a human. And I'm telling you, if I was outward going, I'm trying to budget. have my envelope system. I'm only spending $42 a day. That content will be viral. People would love it. But as soon as you come out and say, this is how we're building wealth. This is how we're, we're moving forward. This is how we're, you know, breaking, you know, I watch like Instagram influencers when they have like custom homes or when they get like the platelets, you know, like the, the injections in their face, the comments are always. very shocking. And it's almost always a color line because when white people come out and say, I want to be rich, there's not nearly the level of hatred, especially white men. White men spend money on cigars, yachts, 30 year olds when they're 95. mean, and no one complains. I've never seen a post complaining about how expensive cigars are. Something you literally smoke to ash. Why do you care if I buy a $20,000 Birkin bag when there's a guy literally smoking $20,000 worth of cigars on a yacht into ash? At least I have a purse to show for it. All he's going to have is cancer. You're never going to see that. so like you, when being unapologetic means you accept upfront that people are going to hate on you and that you just going to do it anyway. I love that. And Nat, you have a book coming out, I believe. I have heard on the grapevine. Give us a sneak peek. What are you doing? Oh man, I finally had to accept that I have to write more than one book. Thank God for my book coach, Lauren Marie Fleming, because I was trying to put all this goodness into one book and she was like, you're insane. That's just not going to work out. That's just not what's going to happen. So I'm going to write three. And the first one is, um, salesy or broke. We've truncated it from you can be salesy or you can be broke. I felt like that was too long for a title. So yeah, so we're doing salesy or broke with a cute little tagline, but in short it's, hey, salesy is actually a compliment. What have you decided that selling people your solution, your belief system, right? In the time we've been on this podcast, I've sold people on two distinct beliefs. One, that it is possible for them to make more money in the business they already have. And two, that being wealthy does not have to be shitty. It can actually be really exciting and it's totally possible for them, even if they do not fit the norm or the mold of what wealth means. Right? That's what I want in this book. And so it, the manuscript is 95 % there. It's got 30 something thousand odd words and it just needs a little polish before it gets green lit. And then it can start going through the editors or you have hybrid publisher them working with. So. I'm super excited. And then the next book will be a money book, probably move like money loves you. Ooh, nice title. cause I feel like that's really what you want to do because I've been middle-class most of my life and I've had the mindset that I'm going to be rich regardless. My current circumstance has never made a bearing on me deciding what I get to have. Most people look at their bank account and go, have $2,000. I'm never going to be rich. I have $200. I'm never going to be rich. have $50,000 in credit card. I don't care what my current situation is. That actually doesn't matter to me at all. Because it has nothing to do with my end goal. And my end goal is that I am going to be incredibly wealthy and be able to do so much good for myself and for others. It's ordained. It's destined. Wealth is my birthright. So I'm not really all that concerned about what I have now because God can do anything, anytime, anywhere for anybody. Like time means nothing to the universe. Our lives are just like a grain of sand in the desert of the infinite wonder. of the world. So I feel like that book is going to like change lives, but sales are broke, so it's to be huge. And it's going to keep me from having to fuss at people about sales anymore. Because now when people ask me ridiculous questions on Facebook, like, Natalie, how can I sell without being salesy? The answer is you can't. Anyway, I won't have to answer that anymore. I can just send them a link to the book so I can solve the 10 hours a month that I spend fussing at people about sales. which is a fundamental task in every business. So I'm not really sure why people try to negotiate it. I've never figured out why people try to like sidestep. They're like, well, I'm going to stay in business, but what if I didn't sell? How would, how could that work? It's like, it can't. So I'll keep you all posted. I fought against having a sales book because I'm like, well, I'm a wealth person, but I really think sales is a wealth practice. I really think getting into the mindset that more people need to know about your genius. and that you have a moral obligation as an expert to make offers that change people's lives. I actually do think it's a wealth practice. So I feel good about it. I feel aligned. Yep, amazing. can't wait for those to come out. I have been checking the group going, is this out yet? Wait, I'm not crying out. happening. The book, I went on a writing retreat, I wrote the book. It's happening, happening, happening. It's been years in the making. And it wouldn't have taken so long if I would have stopped being stubborn, but stubborn's in my DNA. So there you have it. why we get along so well, I think. Now, speaking of books, we have a tradition on this podcast Nat called the Book Drop. What book has impacted you, either personally or professionally, that you would recommend to everyone? It's unusual, but I'm gonna go with the Alchemist. brilliant book. Yep. going to go with the Alchemist, especially if you are not woo. So if you are not woo or spiritual in any way, I want to highly encourage you. If you're a pragmatic, practical, everything happens because of a, everything happens because of a result of our hard work type person, you need to read it because it affirms that Wealth is personal, not just financial. Like Santiago, the protagonist, and his version of wealth has nothing to do with just making money, right? And he also makes like a break from his lineage. Like there was a life laid out for our protagonist that he was supposed to have, a humble, planned, safe, comfortable life. And he left it. to go on this journey to get something else. Is that not what every first generation wealth builder is doing? Is that not the exact tension that we're having? We left good paying jobs with benefits to break free on a journey to possibly get something else. We had something guaranteed. The human brain hates risk and it hates loss and it would do anything to avoid it. Do you know what kind of resilient? champion, courageous, badass person you have to be to leave a certain amount of money in a trek, a journey of maybe possibly finding a treasure somewhere in the desert. And that's what all of us have done. So I just, feel like it is a testament to what we are all going through. And there's so many lessons in it, but get the audio book. The gentleman who narrates it just gives me chills. He's the exact right person and he has the right accent for this desert kind of landscape, right? It's Middle Eastern set, but it's something I read or listen to every single year in January as a refresh to remind myself that there's so much there that maybe we don't see right now, but just because I don't see it right now doesn't mean that I won't have it or that it isn't real, you know? yep. It is a brilliant book and you make such valid points with it. I haven't actually thought about it like that before. So thank you for sharing a fresh perspective on pretty much everything during our conversation. It has been an absolute pleasure. I feel like we need like part two and three. Maybe when your book comes out, we'll have to try again. that will incentivize me because I need to do a book tour. I'm just going to tell you right now, I need like 500 pre-order copies. So trust, I'm going to be tapping everybody. I need y'all to book order. mean, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'll share it with my community and if you someone to book tour you here in Australia, I got your back. That's what I'm saying. like, don't you worry when this book comes out. Trust me. I need everybody. I'm calling every favor I've ever had because you, with books, have to prove that people want to read it. You know, like there's a really big, you know, there's a, there's, if you can't get the pre-orders, the fate of the book is probably not the fate that you want. Yep. Or it's to think a book is just a product of your business. It's a business asset. You have to market it just like you have to get salesy. It's that's have to get salesy and I think people are like, well if someone reads it, they were no no damn it. Y'all are gonna read the book. I gave it a in a book funnel and you put that as your front end offer. Like, come on. right. Everyone's gonna see the book. It's when they go to the site, it's a pop-up. You can't buy anything else. Wait, before you go, don't you want my book? Like I just, I'm... fastest way to turn cold leads into warm leads like that. Build those relationships. That's what I have heard. So I'm really excited about the idea. I've never had a book. And so this is very new territory for me, but I am scare sighted. Well, I'm excited for you. Natalie, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with us today. You are welcome.