Why Your Elevator Pitch Is Killing Your Brand

What actually makes people choose you in a world full of lookalike businesses?

In this episode of The Tarryn Reeves Show, Tarryn sits down with Brandy Whalen, co-founder of Kitcaster, to unpack why founder-led marketing wins and how the right story can cut through the noise, build trust fast, and even quieten imposter syndrome.

From a memorable “podcast picnic” that helped a highly technical founder drop the jargon and finally sound human, to the subtle difference between “talking to be understood” vs. “talking to be known,” Brandy shares a powerful approach to story craft that’s equal parts practical and deeply personal.

If you’re a founder, entrepreneur, or thought leader who knows you should be visible but struggles to communicate your message without sounding robotic, this conversation will help you find your voice and own your story with confidence.

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In This Episode, You’ll Learn

• Why storytelling is human biology (and why it’s still the best marketing tool you have)
  
  
• What founder-led marketing really looks like when it’s done well
  
  
• How to move beyond stiff elevator pitches and sound more like a real person
  
  
• Brandy’s simple method to help “non-storytellers” unlock meaningful stories (starting with childhood)
  
  
• How podcasting creates strategic authority not just “exposure”
  
  
• The underrated shift that changes everything: talking to be known, not just understood
  
  
• Why the best marketing hits the thing your audience is too scared to say out loud
  
  
• How stories help reduce imposter syndrome and build self-trust as visibility grows
  
  
• Why podcasting remains one of the most powerful mediums for authentic brand communication in an AI-heavy world

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Key Moments & Takeaways

1) The moment Brandy knew podcasting was different

Brandy shares the story of a highly technical founder she couldn’t “break out of jargon”… until a simple change of environment (a picnic-style podcast recording by the lake) helped him finally relax and speak like himself.

Takeaway: Sometimes the story isn’t missing you just need the right space and the right questions to access it.

2) Founder-led marketing works because people buy connection

Brandy explains that in crowded markets, the differentiator isn’t the offer, it’s the founder’s vision, sacrifice, and lived experience. People want to attach themselves to something real.

Takeaway: Your founder story isn’t a “nice to have.” It’s a competitive advantage.

3) Start personal, then go professional

For founders who don’t feel like “natural storytellers,” Brandy starts with what’s familiar:

• childhood memories
• the dinner table
• what their room looked like
• what they were curious about before they ever had a job title

Takeaway: The fastest path to authenticity is not trying to sound impressive.

4) The mistake most founders make when communicating

Brandy drops a line you’ll want to steal:

“Founders talk to be understood instead of talking to be known.”

You don’t need everyone to get you you need the right people to recognise themselves in what you’re saying.

Takeaway: Clarity isn’t for everyone. It’s for your people.

5) Storytelling is how you fight imposter syndrome

Imposter syndrome doesn’t dis

Connect with Tarryn

Transcript

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What connects us all? It's stories. Whether it's a flickering Netflix scene, a dog-eared book or a conversation over coffee, stories are the threads that binds us. And today's guest knows this better than most. Brandy Whalen is a storyteller at heart and a champion of human connection. She's the co-founder of Kitcaster, a podcast booking agency that matches powerful voices with platforms ready to amplify them. Brandy has a gift for turning life's messy moments those quirks, pivots and plot twists into narratives that captivate and connect. Part wordsmith, part magic maker, she believes that even the most ordinary experiences can become extraordinary when told with heart. Through her work, she helps entrepreneurs, thought leaders and visionaries find the story behind their story and share it with the world. Get ready for a conversation that celebrates the beauty of imperfection and the power of owning your journey. Welcome to the show, Brandy. Thank you, Tarryn I'm excited to be here. My absolute pleasure. I'm excited to have you. And storytelling is obviously something that I'm super passionate about for those of you who are watching and listening and following along. I own the publishing company. You help people get on podcasts. Obviously, I have a podcast. So I'm super excited for this. So let's talk about your story first. And what led you to, I believe, co-found Kitcaster. Yeah. How did storytelling and podcasting become such a central pillar of your work? Yeah, I have always loved stories. I think growing up an only child until I was 11, I survived boredom through stories. whether it be reading stories, watching stories, listening to stories, creating stories, I would create narratives and worlds in my own little world of creativity. So it was really, I think, a source of survival for me growing up. And then into adulthood, just seeing how impactful it is for everyone to have a story, to feel connected to what they're doing. Every single one of us wants to be driven by a purpose. I truly do believe that. And sometimes people don't really know, like they think they're just kind of doing this thing. Like I work this job, I do this thing every day. really figuring out what is like lying below that surface is important to me and should be important to everyone. So when I co-founded Kitcaster with Ryan Estes, he actually had a podcast for years. Mm-hmm. all centered around business founders. So I had a small boutique PR agency and I would get a lot of my clients on his podcast to talk about their story, their founder story, their business journey. And it was this, it was really interesting because I had this client and he was an engineer. had a, uh a company that was really high tech and he was very, you know, very buttoned up and had, I just had a really hard time kind of breaking him down, getting him out of the jargon that he liked to use and lean on and getting him to seem, just to humanize him. And so I had reached out to my co-founder, Ryan. We weren't working together at the time. It was purely just me pitching him a particular guest and he was like, yeah, I would love to interview your client. And he was like, in fact, I've been trying this new thing where I take my mobile audio kit and we go and have a picnic. And I was like, What? And he's like, yes. He's like, so bring your client. We're going to sit on a picnic blanket on this lake. We live in the States. We live in Denver, Colorado, and there's this park called Sloan's Lake. And so he's like, I'm going to set up a picnic blanket. We're going to have croissants. We're going to have coffee. And we're going to have conversation. And when I told my client that, he was like, wait a second. What? Like, we're going to be at a park. We're having a picnic in the morning. What is this? that. But Tarryn it was the first time that I ever saw him, like just let his guard down and talk. And it was amazing. And his story is actually really incredible. And I had worked with him for probably a year and a half, never was able to break him down like that. And that's when I knew like this medium, this work, there's something there and we needed to, we needed to start Kitcaster so that we could have more experiences just like that. Mm, that's beautiful. sometimes all it takes is that change of scenery for some people, because I think we're quite conditioned to, you you're this way at home, you're this way at the office, you're this way on holiday, you're this way as a parent, you're this way as a friend. And we can really kind of box ourselves in like that. But when you give yourself permission to just own your story, and be vulnerable and be brave and tell it like it is. There's such beauty in that and I really believe healing. Yes, yeah, incredibly healing. I mean, I have actually seen that and you probably have seen this just in interviewing people. When you get to that moment, you may ask them this question that they might not have been asked before and you just watch the transformation happen. Like you can just see it. It's like this lift. They say the thing and then all of a sudden you can just tell that they've been waiting for a very long time to uncover that. Yeah, yeah, it's like that letting go and that expansion into that next level. I see it all the time with the book writing as well, you know, when we tell stories in written form. um I think that speaking and I hate speaking like I'm a speaker. I hate speaking. I get so like sweaty and gross and nervous every time, but I do it because it helps me keep expanding. It helps me keep growing. um I that that's beautiful. do you Kitcaster right? I assume not all of your podcasts are picnic blankets by the lake, which sounds amazing by the way. uh I assume it's your traditional podcasting as well. Yeah. Yeah. So actually there hasn't been a podcast picnic blanket situation since that day, which is very sad. I know he does have a great podcast. It's actually AI for founders and we need to get that picnic blanket back. But so what we do with our clients now is we look for opportunities for them to tell their story and usually connecting with audiences that matter to them. Yeah. And matter to them in ways, whether it be they have an important founder journey that they need to share. Perhaps it's getting in front of their ICP in a very meaningful way of sharing. You know I think when we're thinking about how we market our brand and ourselves, we have these kind of very rigid guidelines to how we market and we forget about the human side. And there's so much there that you can do in podcasting, speaking to the people that matter, that could potentially be your clients in a way that's, that lets them know that you understand what is happening in their world. Yeah, I love that. that is what we do. So we work to actually facilitate conversations. So we less production and podcast production and more facilitation. I love that. I love that you made the distinction, especially coming from a PR background, because we have a whole PR and media department for the publishing company that I founded. uh There is such a huge distinction about getting PR and getting exposure and marketing and actually getting it in the uh right places where your ideal client is hanging out. Because I've seen and I've been on the receiving end of many a lovely PR agency that are like, we're going to land you a feature in this, that, and the next thing. Hollywood Digest, for example, and I'm like, my ideal client isn't reading Hollywood Digest, but thank you. That makes my ego feel really nice. You know, and I love that you made that distinction. So let's dive a little bit more into storytelling and founder led marketing. Hmm? Why do you believe that storytelling is one of the most underrated tools in a founder's marketing toolkit? I believe that storytelling is human biology. We, as humans, love stories. That is how we connect. That's how we connect. That's how we learn. It's how we, everything, like anything that you absorb and truly absorb usually comes through a form of a story. So it is so incredibly important to... be able to tell your story as a founder. I think that it is oftentimes overlooked and really hard for founders to do. I feel like everyone's been trained to almost this elevator pitch. Like what's your elevator pitch? Your boiler plates, you know, these like little snippets that are so mechanical and just well-tuned and just feel so not authentic or interesting a lot of times. And it's just take all that away. And this founder led marketing is just showing people like you're a person, you have these real human experiences, you care deeply about this audience that you're serving. And here are the reasons why you care deeply for them. And I think there's so much competition out there. There's many people doing the same thing that you're doing. You as in everyone. You know, you have a company, there's likely 10 to 20 companies just similar to yours out there. So what is going to make somebody choose you? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it's that connection. It's just, it's that human connection. And I think that that can only come from a founder, honestly. I mean, it's like, it's your vision. This company was started because of your vision and it is an important vision to share. And nobody cares about your business as much as you do. Yeah, and nobody can tell the story like you can. right. Yeah, you have that connection. You're the one who loses sleep at night. You're the one who maybe didn't collect a paycheck for a year or two to get this company lifted off the ground. Like those are the things that people will attach to. Yeah. Yeah. So for the founders out there who like your engineering friend, who feel like they're not natural storytellers who are kind of boxed into that very rigid persona where they're professional, where do you recommend they start when they are trying to build a personal brand? Because this is what we're really talking about. It's the personal brand behind the business. Yes, yes, exactly. And it is hard. It's really hard to get people out of that mindset. As I mentioned about my engineering friend, it took me a year and a half. It was that moment that we were in a different environment, asking different questions to get him to take a step back and just understand the 10 layers below what he had been talking about. And that is for, I think, a lot of people. it's hard to get there, especially for those folks who are not natural storytellers. And that's most everyone, honestly, em especially in the spaces that we tend to work in, which is in innovation. But I always like to start with what's known to them. Like when I'm working with clients and trying to uncover some stories, I like to just peel it back from like, tell me a funny story from childhood. Mm. did your dinner table look like growing up? What kind of food did you eat? Like, just like want to like, I want to understand, I want them to be able to paint a picture with something that they're very familiar with. Like nothing to do with their business. This is very personal to them. I wanna know, I wanna understand what did your bedroom look like growing up? Did you have rock posters on the wall? Did you have a desk? Did you have like this giant computer set up? because you have been engineering and coding since you were five. Like what did, I want to hear those things. And once you get people talking about that, that shift to then what they're doing today and how they frame up those narratives becomes easier. Hmm. Yeah. I'm wondering what's your opinion on because I believe storytelling is one of the most one of the oldest forms of communication. It's how we pass down laws. It's how we learned. It's how we connected. It's how we survived um from way back when. And it has endured. The format may have changed, but it's now twenty twenty five at the time of recording. And it has endured. We now have ebooks and all of the things, which is great. I'm wondering, I believe we're born natural storytellers. And I think that it's only through our exposure to tech and marketing and societal expectations of who you should and shouldn't be that we lose that ability to connect truly with others. Yeah, I would agree with that. And it's interesting because I've observed children and I don't know, and this has been talked about, so I'm not making some observation that hasn't been observed by others, but there is this time, like when kids are young and they're wild in their storytelling, right? Like sometimes their imaginations are just all over the place and you can't even follow them, but they're excited to tell the story. And then you're right. Like something happens when they start to gain this awareness that people are judging them or that there's, there's outside input that's coming into their world and kind of destroying that, that like creative, the imagination. And I've seen it happen around like age, it's like very sad. I feel like it happens around like age eight or nine, like where they start to like get self-conscious, they start to think about what they're saying, they really care about how they're showing up with their peers. it is what society, it's what's being fed to them via. all the things and some people are resistant to it and they don't care and they're like, I'm going to be who I am always and ever. But I think it's really rare. It is rare. I'm sitting, my daughter's eight at the moment, she's almost nine, and I'm seeing that at the moment. And the way that you just put that into the words, like really hit me because I've been putting up with the tantrums and the, hate yous for asking me to get dressed, you know, that sort of thing. And I can really see this push and this change in her. And it is, it is sad that that many of us lose that. But I also think that today's generations are different. And I had to laugh at the beginning of our conversation because you said I survived boredom through stories. And we did because we didn't have iPads. We didn't have iPhones. We didn't have iPods back in our generation. I'm showing my age now, but it's true. We were forced to experience boredom. There wasn't any. And I see this real entitlement in children now to, it is your job to entertain me. And I cannot have anything to do for longer than 15 minutes. Otherwise, I'm going to have a tantrum. It's this constant need for stimulation. But whereas when we were growing up, I I grew up in Africa, which I think is quite a different upbringing to the US. But I expected to be bored. And so I built forts. I learned how to make rope out of tree bark. I went horse riding. I flew kites. I colored in. I wrote books. I read books. I was the nerd at the party and I still am who brings a book. I seriously do. I am that person. Like, no, I can talk to you for 10 minutes, but then I'm going to read my book, OK? And I think it is sad how our younger generations are losing that ability to not even just tell stories, but to communicate with other humans face to face because now they have a screen in the way. And so your customer service areas are breaking down. Your ability to brainstorm at a work table in person is breaking down. And honestly, I'm concerned. Yeah, I think we should be, I think there's lots of reasons to be concerned. And I think it also is infiltrating adults as well. I mean, you look at, it all kind of stems from us, right? And I lose sight all the time of how much I, I was actually talking to a client about this today. You know how people are always like, I had this amazing idea in the shower and they were like, call it shower ideas. And I'm like, no, it's just like the one time in the day that you're not distracted. It's, there's nothing magical about the shower besides the fact that you're not looking at a phone or you're not doing anything else, but just being. So we need more of that. And we, as adults forget about that time when we were young and bored out of our minds, but not bored out of our minds. Like I was actually, I had a great time by myself. Yeah, me too. I still have a great time by myself. Like I'll take myself to the movies and they're like, how can you do that? I'm like, because it's nice and peaceful. That's why. And I have like told, and I know like even just thinking about imposter syndrome, right? Like I have told myself these stories, like I've put myself in situations I probably shouldn't have been in. Like on paper, I probably did not belong in certain rooms just because I didn't have the qualifications. But I told myself I belonged there and I did it and it was great and it was fine. But that's a part of it too, is like you have to push yourself. And a lot of times we push ourselves through the stories that we tell to ourselves or not tell. exactly. I mean our reality really is just a story that we're telling ourselves based on past experiences, our present view on things and our current expectations. Like your reality is literally a mythical story that you are telling yourself. Yes. And you have this reality and somebody else has a completely different reality, but you could be living in the same house. I know. And that to me just blows my mind. That is wild. But there's such power there. There is such power there because if you are sitting in the middle of your story and you're like, I'm really not having fun, I do not like this, you can change it. If you're brave enough, if you're willing to get a little bit uncomfortable. I mean, you're already uncomfortable if you're not happy. So I mean, it's a little bit, you know. How uncomfortable are you willing to get? And I think it's Tony Robbins who has that quote who's something I'm going to butcher the hell out of this, but it's something like um people will only change when the pain of what their experience becomes greater than the pain of changing. Yeah, yes, I've heard that. Yes, and I love that. And it is so true. It is so true. So true. All right. We had a little segue there, but let's get back on track. It's all relevant. It all makes sense. But I want to understand what are some of the mistakes that you see founders and entrepreneurs making when they're trying to communicate their message and how can they work to, I was going to say fix it, but I don't think fix is the right word. How can they work to become more authentic in their storytelling? Yeah. I mean, I think that a lot of times founders will talk to be understood instead of talking to be known. And those are two very different things. You don't need everyone to understand you. You just need the right people to recognize themselves in what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that is what happens so many times, you know, and it's just like that. You just need the, the right people to understand and connect to your message. And I, and I think that that's a, that's a huge disconnect that a lot of, a lot of founders make in communicating. Yeah, I mean storytelling really is if we want to be kind of businessy about it, storytelling is marketing and you cannot market to everybody. You can sell to everybody, but you cannot market to everybody. So let's talk about owning your story then, because stories really are a source of strength. um And if we want to get businessy, there are strength in your marketing arsenal to help you stand out from everybody on Facebook and Instagram. They're your strength when you're on a podcast because your ideal client is sitting out there and they hear something that you say or a story that you shared from childhood or an opinion that you have. And they go, I recognize this person. It happens subconsciously. uh This is my person. I like this person or the opposite, which is just as beautiful. May I say it? You your haters and I call it self-weeding. They're self-weeding themselves out of your ecosystem like, oh, I hated the sound of her voice. She's so annoying. I don't believe that same thing. She doesn't know what she's talking about. Good. Because then you're not wasting your time hopping on sales calls or trying to write pieces of copy in your sales funnels for that person because they're not your person. Then there's the imposter syndrome thing. And like I said, I don't... I hate speaking, I still do it, but I also don't think that there's any founder ever, no matter how successful they are, who still doesn't experience imposter syndrome or the little self-critic in their head that says they're not doing well enough, even when they're turning over trillions, um that, I could have done that better. Why are you so stupid? It's that little nasty voice. How can storytelling act as a tool? for overcoming imposter syndrome, for owning our strength, especially when we're stepping into more visible roles. Yeah, well, and I think it's being authentic in your storytelling. I think that that's number one. And that kind of hits on a point that you made. It's connecting with people. They're either going to connect with you or they're not. But finding that authentic voice that's true to you, that's really true. I mean, I think that a lot of people will adopt a voice that's not true to them for the sake of like trying to be all the things to everyone. um but that's just not, that's never how you should look at it. And I think once you own that and you understand that this is my story, this is the story, this is why I do what I do, this is why I get out of bed every morning, and this is why this work is important. It's, and then realizing that you're not gonna be for everyone and be okay with that. And I think that's the first step to overcoming that. But like, let's not kid ourselves. Like you said, everybody has imposter syndrome at some level. Even at the highest level of people who are in, we could look at them and say that they're the most successful people that we've ever known or seen. Everyone has imposter syndrome. And I think the more that you're able to like, really know who you are and what you're doing and why you're doing it and having the correct story that feels good to you and authentic to you, I think the less you have of that. Yeah, absolutely. Let's talk about strategic brand building then, because podcasting really is a part of strategic brand building. There's very few people who do it just for fun. There are people who do do it just for fun. uh But it is part of strategic brand building. How does storytelling tie into building a brand strategically? Yeah, you know, I think it's interesting because... You like storytelling is just, it's such an important piece of your brand. And you think about some of the most powerful brands that you feel like you're personally connected with. And I don't know if you've watched the Dove ads, for example, uh Dove, the soap brand, but they have like definitely gone in hard to like social issues and they give you kind of like their branding is through storytelling that gives you kind of all the feels. Like when you're watching it, you're like, this is making me somewhat uncomfortable. I don't really know what this is about until you get to the end and you're like, whoa. Mmm. that was wild. I didn't, I did not see that coming. I did not realize that that was going to be a soap brand that was delivering me that message, but that felt, you know, that just, it hits in a place. And I think that that is what is important with brand building and storytelling. It's like getting people to emotionally connect with something and something that like in your wildest dreams could Do you think that you could emotionally connect with a soap brand? Mm. Yeah. Look, I took my daughter to Lilo and Stitch the other day. And you know how at the beginning of movies you have adverts? I cried in an advert for an insurance company because of the story that they were telling. And my daughter's looking at me, she goes, mommy, what's wrong? The movie hasn't even started because I'm a crier. Anyway, she's like, it's the insurance ad, mom. I'm like, I know. But the story and they had so masterfuly done it. And honestly, I sit, I have background in marketing as well. And a lot of the marketing that's coming out now is absolute garbage. I'm sorry. It's garbage. makes no sense. It's just, it's terrible. But every now and again, you get this ad that kind of shines through and you just go, holy moly. First of all, my business brain goes, I want to talk to the person who created this ad because they're a genius. And then I'm like, that's amazing. I wonder if anyone else is experiencing this or if it's just me because of my perspective on the world. And it can create such a connection. And you're absolutely right. It's when you're able to do things like that, that people start thinking differently about your brand. Because that insurance company has just been a list in the 50 plus insurance companies, for example, that I see every year when I go to renew my insurance for my car or my home. Now I'm gonna go, ooh, like I'm gonna have a special affinity with that brand because they made me feel something. Yes, yeah. And it's not easy to do and it's tricky, right? Because there is that place where like something can feel too overdone. It can feel like it's disconnected, like it doesn't make any sense. if that insurance, I don't know what that commercial was, the advertisement was, but yeah, I would love to see it. I would love to see it. I love all of that. mean, I, do you know Burt's Bees? They're the yeah. Yeah. and honey and all of their wellbeing and body products. Yeah, and the founder is just like a total goofball. they'll like, have this whole like commercial series, like who's Bert, you know, and he's just a, he's a wild guy. And it's just so fun. Like I'm like, every time I see Bert's bees, like I don't even know if I necessarily like love Bert's bees, but I buy it because I'm like, Bert seems really cool. Like, like Bert doesn't care about anything. Bert, Bert likes bees. He's a hippie. He's like, whatever happens happens, you know, and I can get down with that. So um I just think it's really important to just have that connection. I, and that, and not everyone's gonna love Burt, but I do. yeah. Well, I mean, that's their loss because I think Bert sounds like a cool guy. But everything that we're just talking about, know, these are the things that make you stand out in a saturated media space, not your regurgitated elevator pitch, not your business card, not any of those things. And it takes courage to tell your story. And you said that some of the techniques that you use are getting people to talk about their childhood. and what their rooms look like and things like that. So getting in touch with those parts of yourself that you may have sidelined for a while can be really helpful. oh you know, I think part of the storytelling too, that I like to encourage my clients to use during podcast conversations, because a lot of times they are talking to audiences in their particular niche. So they want to be sharing some, like what they do, like what their company does. It's just in podcasting, you kind of bounce between personal and professional, which is also interesting. in a medium and for them to be able to like paint the picture, like you're talking to your ideal client. What is their, what is their current situation look like? What does this look like for them? How are they currently doing things and like really paint the picture? Like what, what is, what does their day look like? What is, what is their pain? What are they going home worrying about? Because that's oftentimes when people Like what keeps them up at night or what they think about when they should be eating dinner with their family and paying attention to what their kids are saying, but they're off in another planet worrying about something. Hit that. Talk about that. when we're working with our ideal client, because obviously we tell stories in books. um I specifically work with entrepreneurs to tell stories in books that generate leads and grow their business. One of the key things that I say is you need to hit the point that they, what they're feeling or worrying about that they're too scared to say out loud. Yes. oh When you're able to nail that and give them the understanding that you get it and you have the solution or the pathway to solve that problem, it's gold. Absolutely. I 100 % agree with you. And that is exactly what I try to tell people. it's sometimes not, I mean, it's just, everyone always thinks that it's like ROI or the money, right? But it's like, it's the emotion. emotion. At the end of the day, yes, of course, like they have to be, it has to fall within their budget. But you've got to hit a place that they don't even know. And once you've done that really well, even if it is a little bit outside their budget, they usually find a way to work with you because they know that you are their person. And then you've built that relationship. And then what does that do? That gives you referral marketing, which is the best marketing that you can possibly have. So it's well worthwhile doing this storytelling stuff. know, if you're sitting there with your engineering background or your science background or you're just, you know, a little bit of a meeker personality, that is totally okay. You can learn the skill set. I know somebody, her name's Brandy, go check her out. it's not even, it's actually everyone. I feel like everyone kind of struggles a bit with this. And especially when you're talking about yourself and trying to kind of create a narrative. And a lot of times people, and you may have experienced this with all the work that you've done with your clients and people you've had on your podcast, but sometimes people will say, I've had like five different careers that. Like I started here and then I moved over here and then I went here and none of them make any sense. And then when they start talking, you're like, no, all of it makes sense. It all makes sense. Do you understand what that is? Like you just said that thing. Every time that you mentioned something that you did in your career, it had this common element. Mm-hmm. Yep. And you just said that out loud five times in different, but in a different context. And then they're like, Oh, Whoa. They're like, I thought I was just lost and I didn't know. you like a forever career changer and had all these, you know, it was just misguided. And it's like, no, you, this is your thing. And you've done that every single time you've moved to a different role. you're not lost. You're on a grand adventure. It's amazing. Yeah. beautiful. It's beautiful. Yeah. And that's the empowering part too. And that, cause that those words, when somebody says that they've, you know, they've, they're misguided or, you know, they've a lot of times they speak about these career shifts in a negative way. And you can tell that there's some underlying feelings around that. And then once they understand, then you, again, what you mentioned earlier, everything is a little lighter. They're like, That's great. So do we believe that storytelling is now reshaping public relations and marketing for business leaders moving forward? Yeah, I mean, I think it absolutely should have always been a part of how people, brands are communicating to the world. It should have, it should always be through stories. And I think even more so now when we're being fed so much and so much that's generated by non-human voices and it's hard to know what's real, what's not real anymore. But what we But what we do know, what we can hold true is hearing a story from somebody, from a representative of a particular brand that shows like true care, vision, compassion, enthusiasm. That's, it has to be more present than ever because it's just, I feel like we're so disconnected. So where do you see podcasting as a particular medium fitting into the future of authentic brand communication? And I think it's crucial to authentic brand communication. I feel like it's a very, it's one of the few mediums that I think you can tell stories and like low barrier to entry, right? Tell stories. um So yeah, I mean, I feel like it's interesting because people will say there's too many podcasts, there's so much content out there, it's overwhelming, but There's a place for everyone. And yes, you may have some shared experiences, but your experience is unique. Every single individual has a unique experience. Yep, that's beautiful. Brandy, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with us on the show today. But before I let you run away and tell more stories on other platforms, we want to know what book has impacted you either personally or professionally. Yes. Okay. So Joan Didion, the Year of Magical Thinking. Good one. Yeah. It is the most beautiful book I have ever read and I could read it over and over again. Why do you think she did such a good job? I feel like she uncovered grief in such a beautiful way that I just don't think anybody has ever, ever done before. And a grief is a, is a, is a human experience that we all have had and will have and continue to have. Yeah. Amazing. All right, for those of you who want to connect with Brandy and get booked on some awesome podcasts like this one, then reach out to her via the links in the show notes. And Brandy, thank you so much. Thank you, this was so wonderful.