Will the settlement between report hosts and Spectora shake the foundations of the inspection industry? Get ready to find out with Nick Gromicko and Nathan Thornberry.
We explore Spectora’s decision to settle and what it means for the larger inspection industry. We also examine the powerful dynamics that led to this settlement, and question if this was the only route to survival for Spectora. Delve into the potential for legal action by Nick and InterNACHI, the steps to obtain an injunction, and more.
As we wrap up our virtual sojourn, we consider the potential impact of a software company acquisition on the industry. It's a roller-coaster episode, replete with insights, courtrooms, and the possibility of turbulence in the industry as the fallout from the settlement continues. Buckle up for an episode that promises to unravel the complexities of the inspection industry's current scenario. Join us!
Check out our home inspection app at www.inspectortoolbelt.com
Need a home inspection website? See samples of our website at www.inspectortoolbelt.com/home-inspection-websites
*The views and opinions expressed in this podcast, and the guests on it, do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Inspector Toolbelt and its associates.
Will the settlement between report hosts and Spectora shake the foundations of the inspection industry? Get ready to find out with Nick Gromicko and Nathan Thornberry.
We explore Spectora’s decision to settle and what it means for the larger inspection industry. We also examine the powerful dynamics that led to this settlement, and question if this was the only route to survival for Spectora. Delve into the potential for legal action by Nick and InterNACHI, the steps to obtain an injunction, and more.
As we wrap up our virtual sojourn, we consider the potential impact of a software company acquisition on the industry. It's a roller-coaster episode, replete with insights, courtrooms, and the possibility of turbulence in the industry as the fallout from the settlement continues. Buckle up for an episode that promises to unravel the complexities of the inspection industry's current scenario. Join us!
Check out our home inspection app at www.inspectortoolbelt.com
Need a home inspection website? See samples of our website at www.inspectortoolbelt.com/home-inspection-websites
*The views and opinions expressed in this podcast, and the guests on it, do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Inspector Toolbelt and its associates.
Welcome back to everyone to Inspector Tool Belt Talk and I'm going to call this episode. I'm going to preemptively call it the conversation that got away from me Because we have the infamous Nick Rameco and Nathan Thornberry on today. Yep, this is being recorded and released fairly quickly because there's been a lot going on. We've had report hosts going after spectora for a while and then just yesterday the message boards and Facebook and everywhere else blew up with a whole bunch of stuff. And correct me if I'm wrong, guys, and I'll let you swing here. Basically, it comes down to report hosts, as they own comments that are used in spectora reports. So spectora is settled and they're going to have people change their templates, but then they're also going to erase inspection reports In some cases thousands of them that have used those comments that report hosts says that they own. Is that correct?
Nathan Thornberry:I'm not sure you're 100% accurate there. You're not far off. I've heard from users that got in touch with the folks at spectora and asked directly on that question that they weren't deleting, they were eliminating access online access to historical reports and that any reports needed in the future, for whatever reason, could be requested by the client from spectora or by the user from spectora. But otherwise you got it all correct pretty much, I think.
Ian Robertson:It's a big issue with a little one sentence or two sentence summary that I did there.
Nick Gromicko:We already got a reply. They're already on it. We have a libel suit because they are saying with their actions that Kenton and me and my brother and internet, she stole their stuff, that it to the wrong people. They said it to the entire inspection industry. So we got libel suit. Now I thought the attorney can figure out anything.
Ian Robertson:So that's your attorney.
Nathan Thornberry:Well, I don't think that's correct, nick. I don't think that's somebody conjuring a legal position. I think it's a great legal position and also an obvious one, and I think that the users of spectora, as much as spectora, might get in the mix here, because they were the ones that agreed to a settlement statement. I think everybody needs to be looking here at report host or report host as I go. Why exactly do you make settlements that you know harm the end user or the inspector? It's like, why would you even agree to that?
Nick Gromicko:That doesn't make any sense to me. I want to answer without using the cuss word that we're not supposed to use. They're weak. Who's weak? They're weak. You know what I mean? Ok, spectora, a bunch of weaklings. Somebody tells me to lead a bunch of international member stuff. Immediately. I'm going to tell them to go, you know what? Yeah, but that's the most amazing.
Nathan Thornberry:You have the money to fight it, nick. That's not fair, you know, we both know, the spectora doesn't, so the spectora doesn't 99.99% of business owners, and even the higher percentage of that of people, cannot afford to fight it.
Nick Gromicko:I always learn a lot from you and look at you. You quickly put your domain name behind you. Well, all I have behind me is the laundry in my garage where I wash the rags that I clean my car with.
Nathan Thornberry:Well, that's also a form of marketing.
Nick Gromicko:We are not on the same level. I aspire to act as quickly as you. Oh, you're too kind. We think similarly. You're just always a little bit ahead of me. Look at that.
Nathan Thornberry:Well, I mean, look, I think clearly You're promoting all the contriers.
Nick Gromicko:You're promoting the show.
Nathan Thornberry:I just have sympathy for spectora. I mean, I've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars defending things where I was blatantly right, and not everybody has the luxury of being able to do that. I'm not saying that it wasn't a well-earned luxury, but still it's just. It's not for the content.
Nick Gromicko:OK, let's go the other way. What do you think this costs them? It's always easy to look at things out of pocket. What are your costs out of pocket in defending something? You've got to lower your business and stuff, but what do you think it costs them to take customers? Piss them all off, delete reports. Libel Kenton, shepherd, libel Internazzi, get me all fired up, have a bunch of bad press and then open, basically reveal the mystery to the world that you're just a little you know what sitting there and will do whatever anybody says. If they send you a nasty letter from an attorney, I mean, what does?
Nathan Thornberry:that cost. And no, I think there was a balancing act here, though, Nick, and the balancing act was that human need to survive. If they go through an expensive lawsuit and are found liable for damages in the short term, they lose everything. So it's a binary. We're at zero now going down this path. If they don't have the money to fight it or they think that there's a potential for a downside which there always is there's no guarantees, and so they decided to play the long-term play and say well, we know that there's all these consequences, but we'll figure out a way to make up for it. And they were given a giant gift by you and I, noticing and pointing largely to the guilty party. So I don't know. I think that they just went with the survival mode, and basically they were in the movie of Saw. How old is your?
Ian Robertson:daughter, by the way, she's 13.
Nathan Thornberry:I want to, she's 13. All right, no, no, no, I don't know.
Ian Robertson:I'm a weakling when it comes to that stuff. I don't.
Nathan Thornberry:Well then, I'll make a minor, minor illusion to the Saw series and say that spectora chose to live and not to die.
Nick Gromicko:Well, maybe spectora should have your 13-year-old daughter to handle their legal strategies. You know what? Maybe not because she's 13. She's too old. It'd have been a great job for her at age 11. Because they're acting like an 11-year-old girl over there.
Nathan Thornberry:Maybe so I think there's a dual party case to be had with largely the target on report hosts. But you have to connect them and establish standing. So spectora ends up getting wrapped into it and maybe their chess geniuses and Saw this move potential where multiple inspectors would cancel the settlement. Maybe they knew that they didn't have the standing to sign it and their attorney said, hey, sign this anyway. Make one of your competitors even more hated than you're going to be.
Nick Gromicko:Not everyone has your brain, just like not everyone has my money. Maybe the two of us ought to step in and handle everything.
Nathan Thornberry:Well and also they have a big problem. Spectora has not been quiet about their business acumen. They've often particularly growing in, mostly in the realm of these coaching and consulting groups that tend to have the larger multi-inspector firms in the industry and talk on a business level. They've been pretty open and honest and transparent, to their credit, about their intention to eventually have something we're selling, which is fine. But if you destroy the thing now, they might think that there's a much bigger number that they were negotiating on Nick and who knows whether report hosts attorneys who apparently are good at getting money out of people, Saw that potential and were leveraging here's something that a user brought up.
Ian Robertson:They asked do you think that Spectora did this? Because they have venture capital or a purchaser on the sidelines and they wanted this to go away with minimal damage, and then maybe the damage happened afterwards.
Nick Gromicko:Yeah, it's often difficult to sell something while you're in the midst of some big crazy lawsuit that appears from the outside to be maybe something that could take you down right. Everyone has risk averse, so that's not a bad argument.
Nathan Thornberry:It's not a bad argument and that really just leads to who's making the call? Right? I mean, you're looking at either an outside investor currently Nick took that to mean the new investor, the one that might be walking in the door and either party could say, yeah, this is really not worth the risk, let's get the heck out, pull the shoot. But I think there's another investor that is my argument. That likely happened. It's Spectora, the owners that we know of. They made that call like an investor, I have to say. If they don't have the millions of dollars cash position to justify taking a risk bet on this, then they made a pretty savvy decision.
Nick Gromicko:Is it possible they actually didn't make the decision that they already sold in our own by somebody else who made it? Yes, that's a possibility.
Ian Robertson:So as part of their terms of service. I looked it up not long ago and maybe it's changed, but they said they would disclose any purchase of Spectora. Do you think somebody purchased in a way that they didn't have to disclose it?
Nick Gromicko:So saying that you're going to do something is not an agreement.
Nathan Thornberry:Well, and saying they've been purchased is one word that, if you get into the world of investment banking and M&A, doesn't actually get uttered until long after the deal's negotiated Agreements are done, original signing is done, first payments done and ongoing payments are done.
Nick Gromicko:So all you have to do is submit to. I'm reminded to be purchased and invested too, I mean somebody can invest millions of dollars in your company have 99% of the stock and say that it's not a purchase. And it's interesting.
Ian Robertson:I'm not accusing Spectora of this, but it does make me wonder, because we've had multiple venture capital firms approach us and what they want to talk about is how are we like Spectora? And I'm like, oh, that's interesting. So it's not like there's not venture capital out there and smaller and larger firms that have not done a ridiculous amount of research on our industry.
Nick Gromicko:It also might be that they have a bank loan too, or they're factoring something. So, and under their agreement, they can't get the factoring for future money if they're in the midst of, if they are defended in a lawsuit.
Nathan Thornberry:Well, I'll give you a worse Nick. We know they have personally guaranteed debt and we know I should say we know it's very, very, very likely that they have personally guaranteed debt, because who doesn't from these government loans during COVID?
Nick Gromicko:Well, talk about COVID. You know the ERC money that got stopped by the IRS because there was so much fraud with this. What does ERC stand for? I can't remember right now. Employee retention credit. Employee retention credit. So the government stopped it because there was so much fraud. So a new industry popped up, which is where they factor the money based on your applications. If you file the application and they can see the filing of the application, they'll factor your money for 15% or something like that. They'll say look, we'll wait the 18 months that the IRS is waiting to cut you your check. We'll give you your money now, but we're taking 15 or 20%. All that is very likely dependent on you not being a defendant in a lawsuit.
Nathan Thornberry:Yeah, that's true, although and I'll take the lead a little bit on this one being that we file on behalf of clients ERC applications. We have a program for that and we've worked with several inspectors as a matter of fact. So well, be happy to do anybody's, just send me an email, nathantv. But the reality is that that is a debatable point. I'm being told by some pretty inside people there that they were just overwhelmed with volume and didn't have the committed staff. So it's really easy to say, oh, there's fraud, we need to tap the brakes. But really it was an employment issue that the less the government says that even they have a problem getting staff, the better. So the Illuminati know for sure.
Nathan Thornberry:We're just outsiders guessing, but I think it could be a little bit of both. That being said, we are processing applications right now. We're doing those docs and we do it at an incredibly low rate, but we're basically preparing them for the January 1 or thereabouts launch. Again at this point and it should come screaming back there's been no indication of that and this was all passed by Congress, so I'm not too concerned. I have never suggested to any of our clients to factor that. That's insane.
Nick Gromicko:But if they want to ask me, Well, if they have to wait 18 months, which is what I hear, then some people can't want their money in there.
Ian Robertson:You know what?
Nathan Thornberry:We'll get it in less than 18 months. But going back to the issue at hand, it's pretty clear that Internati is considering strongly a libel suit. But what do users do now to get that injunction, so that they don't have to have this huge inconvenience of coming up with new comments and deleting old reports and only having access?
Ian Robertson:to a phone call, if I could just before.
Nick Gromicko:So before I came on the air I was talking live with the law firm and they're working on trying to get an injunction or some other strategy to see what they can do to help Internati. So, if I could, I'd like for our listeners I can go the other way for the whole industry. I'm only. I only have standing to file an injunction on behalf of Internati members. I don't an Internati stuff, I don't. I can't say if I could.
Ian Robertson:I'd like the audience to know what an injunction is and what that means, because some people didn't seem to understand that in some of the groups. But first of all I would like to say my personal opinion of the WAC staffs. I think they're awesome. I'm going to assume that this came from what Nathan said. Maybe it's business acumen, and I'm not saying that if they have investors or something that it's a bad thing. I actually really like the WAC staffs and I think they're honorable.
Nick Gromicko:Okay, you gave the answer in your sense. You said it in the first part of the set, so you just said you could play this and everyone wants to play because I can listen and you said at the end of your little talk just now that they're likable, likeable people. You know and me and Nathan are probably not likable people. Often Likeable people don't go to war easily. They try to. They try to appease everyone, settle and go away gently. It's just in their nature. So you answered your own question. They're likable. That's a problem. That's a problem sometimes in business.
Ian Robertson:Sometimes in business you have to turn it and I'm probably a little bit more towards that Not likable, but a little bit more towards the okay, let's make peace kind of situation and that's probably a disadvantage I have in business. But I would like to talk about the injunction. What does that mean? Nick or Nathan, you can do.
Nick Gromicko:Oh, I'm sorry, the court order that over rolls a previous agreement. So if you may turn an agreement on Monday and a court order comes in on Tuesday that says you can't do what you agreed to, you can do what you agreed to.
Nathan Thornberry:It's great. Well, I'll give a slightly different opinion on that one. So someone can be, you know, somewhat in line with contractual obligations, but be doing something that causes the other party irreparable harm, that in this case, sure, sure, which causes indirectly the irreparable harm to the party, was standing, of course, which is, you know, kind of one in the same.
Nathan Thornberry:But it's basically like you know, if, if let's just say that this is very is a ridiculous scenario. But let's just say that your neighbor, you know, put up a fence that made it so that the fire department couldn't get to your house and your house was on fire, well, that would be a pretty good reason to take action, maybe even without a court, but if the fire was real slow burning, I suppose you could get an emergency injunction so, you know, to make sure that they did not put up the rest of that fence or whatever. That's the business equivalent of it, and I think it, I think every inspector that is losing something here or having to work on behalf of someone else for free, by force, has a justification for an injunction to say whoa, whoa, whoa, pump the brakes here.
Nathan Thornberry:This settlement involved us. We weren't willing parties to it and we don't know what it says. We have no idea what the, what other consequences might come from it. So this thing needs to be stopped right now. We need to determine whether the parties that negotiated the settlement even had a right to on our behalf because we would argue that they did not. Okay, I do not. All right, so we can make whatever. The settlement agreement is null and void, expose report, host for what they are and make it so that this money stream stops?
Ian Robertson:I do. I've heard two things a liable suit and an injunction. I think both of those are. Personally, I think it's warranted against report host, because this is ridiculous, and I mentioned on the message board. Actually to one of your comments, nathan, is that this does not set a legal precedent, because there was no. There's not like an open court case that says the judge decided this, so there's very little legal precedent that can be taken from it. But it does embolden people and embolden's report host, or report hose as you call them. What do you guys think of that opinion? Yes or no?
Nathan Thornberry:And, by the way, for your daughter, that is a garden tool.
Ian Robertson:Yeah, the guys are teasing me because I blamed it on my daughter that I don't allow swearing on our show, but it's actually for me. I'm just weak-willed and I don't like the big bad words.
Nathan Thornberry:So, that was not the interest of the court.
Nick Gromicko:I've been counting for 30 years and I've authored a lot of stuff for this industry over that 30 years and every now and then I try to author something for him that he could use in something he's working on, a narrative or an article or whatever. This guy changes every word. He never happy with nothing. The idea that Kent and Shepard would go to report, host and steal their stuff and use it is ridiculous. I mean, this is one guy that just doesn't. That would never take a single sentence and let you keep it. He would change every word in it.
Nathan Thornberry:Oh, totally. And he's not the only one in this industry that have been coming up with these comments forever. Let's give credit to Mike Casey and Alan Carson and then all the original old school Ashi guys that, like my father, that put their comments into the box and shared it with everybody in the congregation. So these comments they're all, for most comments are about 90% of the most common issues. They're written slightly differently, I'll give you that, but they're more or less plagiarisms and shares from each other for the last 30 to 40 years in this industry, and so it's like down to a guy who originally thought to explain that a water heater is leaking.
Nathan Thornberry:I don't see how report host would be in front of a judge on these claims, and I'm not sure they ever have been. We need to check, but I haven't found any evidence that they have been. I can't imagine that a willful and strong moneyed party couldn't win this once and for all and just show them Well you know, I kind of relate it to this too, because the comments that I've seen for the most part are simplistic.
Ian Robertson:So it's kind of like and these are private transactions for home inspectors. I'm dealing with one person, so I use the illustration. The other day, explain to somebody if I send an email and I say thank you for your business in my signature line, now a big corporation says we've been using that for 20 years, you can't use that. I'm like okay, I sent a private email to this person with that line. That's a pretty common line that everybody uses. How, how are you going to take those few short words? It's not like a novel.
Nick Gromicko:There are a bunch of hypocrites. Even the name of their company, which is trademarks, you know, is descriptive report house. It hosts reports, right? So maybe I, maybe my Pat and attorney and trademark attorneys, you know, should go start, start the process to have their trademark cancelled next On the same grounds. Right, that report host are words that I've used when I was a teenager when I was thinking about hosting reports Somewhere. So I mean, I think that's what we're gonna do. They're just as guilty. Just in their own name. They didn't use in word like Xerox or something that is unique. They used to descriptive Two words out of the English language Well, I'm winder their trademark now.
Nathan Thornberry:Nick, I think you have two enormous challenges there. One is that, yes, it's purely descriptive, just mix the words around but plenty of trademarks have been established in the same way. And two, you know, inspection software over time has been, you know, morphing into more than just reporting, as we know, and certainly more than just hosting Reports, their report host, but they actually have an interface to make a report. So they would have, they would have a challenge to that. That would would supersede your argument.
Nick Gromicko:No, no, you missed the point. All of the stuff. Actions like this Basically end up in part, in the big part mostly as a game, and the game is let's see who runs out of money first, and I want to play that game with report host.
Nathan Thornberry:It's just not a game I generally like to play. That's all. I mean. I'm too nice and I'm known as Mr I'm the ring.
Nick Gromicko:It's a. I will slaughter this piddly Dragon wannabe. Let give me somebody. Get me in here.
Nathan Thornberry:I just can't recall ever Going after someone with that strategy. I don't my. My strategy legally is if you're right, then feel, then have the will to take it to gavel, unless there is a Damn good reason, or darn good reason, not you so let me ask you a question.
Nick Gromicko:If you're in a battle with someone and they decide they want to have a duel with you and they get to choose the weapons and they actually choose, let's say, to choose a sword or a pistol, right, and they come at you with that weapon, isn't it reasonable that you can defend yourself with that weapon and and and attack with that weapon? They are. They came after spectora With the following argument we're gonna cost you money, do something stupid to all your customers.
Nathan Thornberry:No, I that that is.
Nick Gromicko:Is there any shame in me using the same, the same sword that they chose? They chose the weapons when going after them, saying you're gonna run out of money, going up against Nick or make it. It's not shame.
Nathan Thornberry:You get full credit for winning that battle, but they might be aiming at winning the war. So I'm sorry. Running away might be the best strategy that day, even if it means that some of the or like you're trying to win the war.
Nick Gromicko:Yes report. Yes, yes, yeah, I think they're just. I think I think there the analysis of profit here today is correct that they are nice guys, having known them for years. They're my corporate neighbors here in Colorado, um.
Ian Robertson:I think they're honorable too, yeah.
Nick Gromicko:I think that, I Think, I think so, and that might also be. Um, I'd have to check a problem at times, right, because Piddly dragon wannabes have no honor. Yeah, and that's what report host is report house.
Nathan Thornberry:I'd have to check, but they're so chill, so nice. I think they might even be clients of our, you know, blue moon hemp companies. You know drugs oh.
Ian Robertson:Hey, hang on, I'm starting a big distribution pen company right from my desk. There you go.
Nathan Thornberry:My god.
Nick Gromicko:I did this on a flat in realize what my background is. Now all my members know that I'm like so OCD that I wash my towels, that I used to wipe my car off and then I actually iron this before I put them away.
Nathan Thornberry:Well, nick, the next time, the next time you have to do something like that, you want to make it go fast, and if you're also addicted to opiates, we have our state of the art. Great, I'm deep, your day.
Nick Gromicko:Well, I think this big members learned a lot. A little bit about me, but they learned a lot about spectora. That's the problem. You know, how, yep, you never want to make yourself. I mean, maybe I am too, and you never want to make yourself. You never want to publicly Display your weaknesses. If you have them, it's not to your advantage to tell potential enemies. You know where the holes in the fort are, and Spec spectora did just that. I think in this, yeah, I.
Ian Robertson:Have to say though. There, I think there's a measure of that, but I also think there's a measure of what Nathan is saying too. I Mean I'm trying to put myself in their position and then in a position of, ultimately, the end user as the home inspector, in the position of spectora you know what I make a different decision. I don't know enough the details to know, but I can see where they came from. If I were in the position of the user, I'd be hopping mad at both report host and spectora.
Nick Gromicko:Yeah, let me ask you a question why do you think that they were not only just weak, in my opinion in this case, but not so smart that? Is a good question they see along a long three decade history of People calling me and receiving immediately immediate aggressive help to defend them. We're right down the street from me. Why don't they call me? Say, hey, we have. Some can ask you.
Ian Robertson:So there's a post from what is a year or two ago maybe three years ago, when this started, and that you had you had posted on the message board. Did you want them to call you, or how did that? What were your thoughts at the time?
Nick Gromicko:Yeah, post on a message board. You know I mean it's good thing I don't drink, or I'd be, you know, guilty of Pui posting under the influence.
Ian Robertson:Well, you can try some in Nathan's hemp and then maybe.
Nick Gromicko:But I don't know what I said. But basically I tried to settle this with reporters long ago and they went after one of our members.
Ian Robertson:Yeah, I remember that part money.
Nick Gromicko:What do you want? You know, just give it. You get it out of the way. One right.
Ian Robertson:Why do you think, though? So I?
Nick Gromicko:Was. I'm not shows, I'm not completely, you know, you know refusing to Enter into a settlement agreement to help somebody. So this, but on this, I think spectora, you know, has reputation to defend and and it has its customer base to defend and they well, I kind of wondered about that.
Ian Robertson:Maybe this discussion is kind of clearing it up for me a bit, but I wondered why, when you offered to settle this with report host, I'm like why are they basically saying no to Nick? And I'm like I'd rather just get this dealt with.
Nick Gromicko:A couple. I offered up their damages, which is what yeah, well, I understand what.
Ian Robertson:They didn't take that one.
Nick Gromicko:But I think they're wacky.
Ian Robertson:This is Nathan's point that one of the one inspectors paid, paid. How much, nathan, did you say Personally, that's yeah, geez.
Nathan Thornberry:Yes.
Ian Robertson:I mean, how does that even happen?
Nathan Thornberry:This is their business model, folks. This is it. They don't have a report system that is, you know, functional or popular. And let me tell you, I know that because we run the largest, to this day, the largest environmental lab and environmental products in our industry. We talk, we're dealing with everybody Priority lab and breeze, you know, we give a large swath of the home inspection community Throughout the country, throughout Canada, and I can count on one finger I use this finger though, ian, one finger.
Nathan Thornberry:How many people have ever asked me for an integration with report host? And I get asked about everybody's software.
Nick Gromicko:Nathan. Nathan, yes, you know, I like in branding, I like a color in the name and I like an object you can hold in your hand like blue frog. If tomorrow, after someone hears this interview, they asked me what did, what brand didn't it come up with as an example Yesterday, they're gonna say blue frog, because they can imagine holding in your hand Breeze is a tough brand to brand and so I want to know why you're not on this interview Holding up my little fan, my little personal fan, battery operated and letting your beautiful hair blow in the breeze as part of your promotion today well, because I know that that brands don't matter unless you're freaking Coca-Cola and anyone that pays for branding or spends a lot of time on branding.
Nathan Thornberry:They're idiots. Nothing, nothing of mine has ever been. I mean, it's been better branded than most, but it's not like we focus on that. Or you know, there's companies that spend millions of dollars on a single logo and a concept with these, with these agencies to do this, and they don't get a return on investment.
Nick Gromicko:There are also associations that use their members money to brand themselves and there are associations that use their association to brand their members and promote their members. It's completely their opposite, their opposite philosophies. And if you look at the inspection industry association world, you will note that one works and one strategy doesn't.
Nathan Thornberry:Well, and it's publicly public knowledge because it's a, you know, it's not for profit associations. So you can see the sort of the results of those branding efforts, and there's been a number of Groups that thought that they were a marketing agency for their members and it never came to pass. I mean, try as they might and yet you got to give them credit for trying, you know, but that's about where the credit should stop.
Nick Gromicko:Yeah, let's just be glad that they're all suffering from rigor mortis at this point. Let's not even to Ashi bashing, let's move on.
Nathan Thornberry:We know how to identify an Ashi member. You just look for somebody dying in old age. You know yeah, okay, we get in there and take your money and branding, All right so I have a question.
Ian Robertson:This is amazing, but I have a question. I have a question.
Nathan Thornberry:These are not my views. These are not my views, but I think of the biggest insult ever from nigger me goes like yeah, ashi and Nahi and all these guys, they're like the shakers of home inspection.
Nick Gromicko:The shakers was a religious group out in Ohio and they had this funny thing, which is probably going to kill them, which is that they're not allowed to breed. They kept women and women in separate buildings and they couldn't have kids.
Nathan Thornberry:So they're actually in northeast, I think, massachusetts. Last I knew there were three of them left and they were on a Property. Living for free, I should have complained about.
Nick Gromicko:I can't complain about the shakers. I'll tell you. They taught me something in business a long time ago and I've done it even to this day, even this morning, and which is they? I read something, I read a book on shakers and they, you know, they used to make things simple, you know.
Nick Gromicko:I mean sort of like form follows function kind of design, and I was looking at one of the chairs they made. It was just so beautifully simple, you know, and I read about it and they said we do everything to the grace of God and I'm not a religious person or anything. So don't no, I'm not quoting, you know, I'm the last religious person on earth. But when I read that you know, we do things to the grace of God, I'd started doing that and everything I do, when I try to do something, I do it to the grace of God. I try to do as cleanly and neatly and as beautifully and as well as I possibly can. So, as much as I laugh, the shakers strategy, which is Not far from the ashy strategy, I must, I must give some credit to the shakers for actually changing my the way I think about something.
Nathan Thornberry:Well, hold on. I have I have.
Nick Gromicko:What am I If you give me a hoe and ask me to hoe a garden?
Ian Robertson:How about a report hoe?
Nick Gromicko:Yeah, I will do it to the grace. I will do it to the grace of God. I will try to do it as nicely, straightening, as beautifully as I possibly can. I think it's why I'm here on earth.
Nathan Thornberry:Okay. So I'm really sorry to ashy members. You're all my friends, you're my family. You've been seeing me since I was a little kid. But I have to add in one more thing.
Nick Gromicko:International cheese staff is desperately working on getting a discount on geritol.
Nathan Thornberry:We'd like to extend a free membership offer to all members of the american shakers of home inspection.
Ian Robertson:So as a.
Nick Gromicko:What about? I mean, I ended up in an industry, you know, with another association. You know just a bunch of so.
Ian Robertson:Remember when I introduced this episode and I said the conversation that got away from me. This is, this is awesome. I do have a question for you guys, though. Going back to the, this has been great. You're going back to the impact on the industry as a whole, though. I've been asked a lot over the past few days about our software and other software. They're like what stops them from suing you? And they give me scenarios what if somebody has a spectora template?
Nick Gromicko:Well, the answer. There's just to stop them right off the bat. You nip it in the bud. That was the answer. We should, we should nip this in the bud right now.
Ian Robertson:That's that's that's what you agree with, anything.
Nathan Thornberry:And that's why this is an industry issue and that's why we care, even Even if, if you know, I don't have merely the position in the industry that nick does at this point, but it still would affect me to have a software company that imposes a cost on industry participants, including inspectors directly and Software companies like yours, because they will come after you, that's clear and add an expense from your side that gets passed on to the inspector, add an expense directly to them and we didn't add anything to the customer experience. We added nothing to the value of what we do, we just added expense and that results in less success in the industry period end of story.
Ian Robertson:That's exactly what I was thinking of. If there's going to be that kind of litigation or that kind of worry of litigation, you're going to have to have companies like mine that are going to think do we need to keep an attorney on staff? Do we need to have a cash of cash, so to speak, to have on hand for when this happens or if it happens.
Nathan Thornberry:So let me tell you the biggest cost, though, because this is the biggest cost, and then nick can try to find a more expensive thing than this. I challenge him, and he had. The number one cost of coveted was human life in minutes. So you won that round. Nick, let me give you this round.
Nick Gromicko:And I did that long before if they aim a popular philosophy or theory, so so, so, let me give you that. I analyzed how many deaths are going to be caused because of the shutdown. Yes, in and, and that was a lot of. I did a calculation it's a long calculation in loss of life expectancy what the shutdown is going, how many people are going to be slaughtered because of this shutdown. So Two years later, I was right.
Nathan Thornberry:I have an equivalent to you in this report host stuff, okay so so let's say that somebody were looking at Buying an inspection software company and this is totally hypothetical.
Nathan Thornberry:But let's say that they were went after spectora as a target to purchase.
Nathan Thornberry:Well, if that transaction goes well, that increases the benefit to innovators, people that program these kind of things, to participate in the industry and invest in the advancement of what we do as an industry, which has, you know, a value that is not even calculable.
Nathan Thornberry:But right now, because of this issue, uh, and how public it is, if I were a buyer of spectora and I knew what I was doing, I would be asking for the results of Uh, this database update, so that I could identify exactly how many users are using, and I would ask for for them to identify all of the you know the Incursions on somebody else's copy written material, and I'd look at it. It would be you know a lot and and that could scare somebody off or at least diminish the value some, and that's not okay. We need to overturn this thing, for, as much as it might seem like I'm helping the brothers makes some money here, make more money than they would otherwise it's really about the industry because I want the next innovator that's even bigger Um to, to be well rewarded for making this industry even.
Ian Robertson:Let me take that to the next level, nathan, because I I agree with you. There's a cost that we don't see, um, but what about companies like uh? Did you guys see what porch closed that yesterday? I mean, if they don't get their stuff together by march, they're going to be enlisted from nasdaq. They went from 60 so much cents down to like low 50s. Otherwise yeah but that 50s if, if I were an investor, which actually the other day I uh people.
Ian Robertson:Yeah they're sitting on a lot of cash. But if you're an investor, they're going to have to do a stock split here at some point. They're going to need to get it above a dollar at some point.
Nathan Thornberry:But which?
Ian Robertson:yeah, no, nothing, by the way but what are people going to be doing? Looking at this like okay, so now there's a lot of turmoil in the industry that, in an industry that you're relying heavily on for your information, your products, your software that you own. Do you think that it was connected that they went down almost 10, I think it was almost 10 cents yesterday, maybe eight or nine cents.
Nathan Thornberry:I don't think anyone pays that enough attention to this industry because of its size and scale that this would affect any mindsets of any participants at all. I don't think anyone's going to make quite the connection that they could so easily make with Spectora directly on this that, oh gosh, this is a porch group. They own two or three report software writers, actually four, I think it's four.
Ian Robertson:Yeah, hip ISN as a report writer POMTEC.
Nick Gromicko:And still run as independent operations. Instead of doing what you do when you buy four or something, put them all together under one management. I don't get that at all, but I think that stock price and everything else is all dependent on pending themselves. As long as we're only doing 3.5 million homes a year in this country, anything related to real estate transactions is going to be down.
Nathan Thornberry:And let's look at what would really affect porch's stock price tomorrow. Because, believe it or not, I think in our little bubble in the industry we tend to look at them and say, well, you've heard what people say. But if you look at them from a standpoint of cash on hand, ability to deal with issues like that Texas Department of.
Nathan Thornberry:Insurance right away. Right, just stroking a $50 million check. If you look at the actual number of transactions, their overheads, the things that they're doing, that would impress you as a stockholder. They've done relatively well all things considered, much better than how a home inspector views them, and I'm one of the largest shareholders of porch, so I'm happy about that. I have no problem with where their stock price is today. That's arbitrary. But what we'll really.
Nathan Thornberry:Right. What we'll drive that up are three things actually. Nick got the very first one. They can play in the market and that's all. The stock price is driven off of the fact that real estate's going well. Number two when interest rates and bond levels level out or do something other than taking all the money out of the market and just right into bonds.
Nick Gromicko:And other banks.
Nathan Thornberry:Yeah, exactly, that has a far-reaching effect that they need a little bit of. And then I think the third thing is tech stocks. Unless you're an AI chipmaker which isn't a real thing, by the way unless you're one of those guys and you're in tech, you've been punished by a good double digits over the last nine months, and so they don't have tech to brag about, they don't have real estate to brag about, and people are moving money out of the stock market. Well, a group like Porch is going to be ignored in the markets under that circumstance.
Ian Robertson:Okay. So you think, if I gather what you're saying there, you think that Porch is really kind of unaffected as a whole. But to be honest with you, I'm kind of picturing a Nick posted a picture of Ampham's hand quarters and we have Porch. I don't think Report Host is going to be like hey, out of my garage, I'm going to see if I can attack Porch. I don't think that's. I think they went for the target that they thought they could work.
Nick Gromicko:Unless you're selling stock prices. Just noise yeah.
Ian Robertson:I would agree with that.
Nick Gromicko:He bought them. Matt bought like tons of them.
Ian Robertson:I saw that like tons in like five different sessions, right yeah.
Nick Gromicko:I mean at 50 cents. No one's going to deny that it's a buy.
Nathan Thornberry:Yeah, I think it's a huge confidence booster that Matt has so much of his own money tied up. I mean, his family's future is very much dependent on this.
Nick Gromicko:Sister too.
Nathan Thornberry:Yeah Well, and I kind of have like a big brother, little brother relationship with Matt in some senses. You know like it's okay if I mess with him, somebody else does, I'm going to beat him up, but Matt has this stubbornness when it comes to failure and it's amazing. He doesn't not accomplish what he sets out to accomplish and for him to be putting in a lot of money. You can see the big insider trading deals from this year last year when I was technically an insider and you'll see a month where he bought a million and I bought a million too. That was neither were obligatory, just we're good, we want to own more and more of this thing and between him and I, nagel and the other let's call it top 10 owners, we own a substantial part of that company and we're not worried about stock price on the daily.
Ian Robertson:So Spectora, as of I don't know, like a year ago or something, they said that they were the largest home inspection software provider in the inspection industry. So they have the potential to affect a large portion of the industry. Report host would affect a large portion of the industry by going after Spectora, Do you think that? I don't know, I kind of feel like report host kind of. When you're going down anyways, you go around swinging and calling people names and throwing a fit, Is that it? I?
Nathan Thornberry:don't know, I get some money out of this too.
Nick Gromicko:Because I don't see the point in making someone change a couple of words around on some report. Who cares? Where is the financial benefit in harassing everybody?
Ian Robertson:But that's what I'm getting at, though, like the settlement. Like if they were just after money, wouldn't they have just taken the settlement, because I've heard that word settlement happen. Instead, they kind of stuck it to the users.
Nathan Thornberry:it feels like the report has said, like they did, but you said it best earlier there's no legal precedent set here, but there kind of is. Most precedents set are not set in a courtroom, by the way, and legal precedent set in a courtroom are just kind of books meant to be rewritten someday. But when it comes to this, I have not seen them go after anybody, or at least I have not heard them go after anybody with the hey, just change some words and we're good. To Nick's point they were after cash and they very likely got it. I'd be blown away if they didn't get some cash too, but I think they purposely made this part of it. I think they took less cash than they could have maybe got in order to do this and make sure that every software company and home inspector in the world knew that they had to write a receipt.
Ian Robertson:I guess that's what I'm getting at. That's the way I kind of feel as a software company.
Nick Gromicko:That's a pretty good strategy. You take out the big dude right In a dramatic way where spectator has to announce and tell everybody and change all their and take down templates and fix narratives, and all that right Now, once you've established that nobody even can think about the legal strategy in detail. All I know is, look, these guys took out spector and made them grovel. Now they're coming after a little me and my home inspection company.
Ian Robertson:Yeah, and I think you guys are hitting the nail right on the head because you come after and this is what we're doing about now. It's why we got to take them out now.
Nick Gromicko:Get in a ring. Get in a ring, yeah.
Ian Robertson:Because this is affecting and will affect the international members and home inspectors all over. But you don't come after an inspector tool belt, a fraction of the size of spectora, and say, hey look, we took them, the inspector tool belt, knee in. They'll be like okay, and so they're going to go after the big kid on the playground, kick him in the face, fight dirty, kick him in the groin, and then everybody else is going to be like oh man.
Nick Gromicko:Think about the statement that they're making. If they're saying that internet was stole all their stuff, why didn't they?
Ian Robertson:come after me, I'm here.
Nick Gromicko:Why are they going after a platform that has their stolen stuff on it? Why don't they come after me? I'm here.
Ian Robertson:Because you, your washer dryer and iron are going to fight tooth and nail.
Nick Gromicko:Yeah, that's why. So they did an analysis. They said we need a bunch of publicity, we need to knock out someone who's big but willing to go down for us. So now we have that.
Ian Robertson:Now we can go after them. Do you think Report Host was that smart to do that, or do you think they threw a fit when they started to lose all their users?
Nick Gromicko:It's smart enough to not sue the person they say that is actually stole their stuff, yeah. Right, if this is an issue of ethics understanding the ground because someone took my stuff and I'm going to defend myself why don't they go after the guy?
Ian Robertson:They say they say I don't understand it fundamentally. I don't understand the platform. That's like going after WordPress because somebody built a website that stole your content. How does that even work?
Nick Gromicko:Yes, it was a little bit more than a platform though right.
Nathan Thornberry:Well, hold on, guys. We have speaking of precedent. We have plenty of precedents for going after platform owners, now including all of Europe with.
Nathan Thornberry:Meta and X. I mean they're holding them responsible for posts that are an actual video just posted at a different time. If you can be held responsible for that, if WordPress were actually involved in the hosting process, which I don't know if they are we host a lot of websites, ultimate website creator and economicaldomainscom. If somebody was hosting something on my platform and I had a reasonable way to know what it was and know that it was criminal, I do have an obligation to take it down these days.
Nick Gromicko:Yes, what was the name of the domains site you have?
Nathan Thornberry:I have ultimate website, ultimate website creatorcom Economicaldomainscom.
Nick Gromicko:What.
Nathan Thornberry:Economicaldomainscom. What Calm?
Nick Gromicko:Okay, I'm just telling you, I'm telling you, I'm leaving.
Nathan Thornberry:But we're huge in India. I shall be.
Nick Gromicko:What's the name of the market? I fall in line and help you out.
Nathan Thornberry:I appreciate it, but yeah, we're huge in India. That's what we call most of our URLs no joke, okay, yeah.
Ian Robertson:So that's interesting, though, that I never really thought about it that way. Nathan, you kind of gave me a new opening in my line of thought because I was using that WordPress thing, but it's more of a CRM than a hosting platform. But any hosting platform, you know they, you know you're gonna use host gate or a to hosting. I guess that's a bad analogy because, you're right, they have gone at countries, countries have gone after Facebook for having Stuff on their platform and they're like we didn't put that there. They're like well, you should have a way to control that. It's like okay.
Nick Gromicko:Yep, I'm the only person who successfully sued all three credit agencies Um you and went right around the consumer, the, the credit fair, fair credit act or whatever which is was written by them so that you can't sue them. So the way I did it is I went after him for libel. I said listen, you can, you can say my score anything you want. You can say all kind of bad things you want, you just can't say to anybody you can. You can score me all you like, you just can't tell anybody. I'm suing you for telling other people and I want on all three. All three credit agencies had to take everything.
Ian Robertson:So is that? So is it official your liable suit and your injunction? Because injunctions have to go quick, right, the liable suit can take time.
Nick Gromicko:Oh, the injunction you have to do quick, which will be against spectora right, and then the liable suit would be against report hose for saying for, for, for taking action and not correcting it. That implies the outright says basically to the, to my industry, that internet, she stole their stuff, we did not.
Nathan Thornberry:I think your liable strategy is spot-on, I think, on the injunction and an action from users, which is the affected party, so they're the ones with standing that need to take the action. I suppose you could try relating it to to your complaint, but I think I think you need at least three to Three users in order to create a mass action Seeking an immediate injunction, and I would seek it against the entirety of the settlement agreement, which includes both both report host and spectora. I don't think this is purely a spectora issue. I think both parties had full knowledge that the the party paying the bill wasn't at the table.
Ian Robertson:Okay right. The party. So the injunction would be against both spectora and report host, but the liable suit would be against report host. I I do think I'm not an attorney and I don't pretend to be one, but what I know about liable suits, that seems reasonable.
Nick Gromicko:I.
Ian Robertson:Because you're suing somebody saying these are stolen comments and they're very obviously, you know, from international.
Nathan Thornberry:Probably 990 out of a thousand attorneys haven't been to court as often as Nick or I have been in a single year, so we probably have a pretty good, pretty good reason we're agreeing and I've I've not been to court, so I'm thinking you guys are probably more spot on than I could be, so yeah, you know Well and I've heard from I think it was one of the attorneys, that I don't know if he still works with international Mark Cohen.
Ian Robertson:I remember him telling me one time I was just talking with him he's like I've seen Nick in a courtroom multiple times, hand handle himself better and, you know, say things that are spot on. I don't know, and he put it really eloquently. I'm not, but that just shows your guys is both of your experience in courtrooms.
Nick Gromicko:So hey, you know I gotta say Thanks to Ashley, who sued me, I think, nine times and lost all nine.
Ian Robertson:I've got a lot of experience and definitely actually did a lookup of all the all the times, your names, your name Nick in particular. I haven't done one on you yet, nathan, that your name has come up in court records, and I was going through the list I'm like, oh wow, long list, yeah, so yeah but I Like it.
Nick Gromicko:I mean, you know, I understand how, for the average person that you know it's you know it it makes your stomach sick. Not, you know?
Nick Gromicko:in fact, probably getting sued is only second worst to being threatened by a lawsuit, because when you're threatened by a lot, of you have nothing to do, you have to just sit there and kind of wait right to get served and it's enough to make your average home inspector average internet. You remember vomit in a toilet, and so I really sympathize with um. You know the Kevin and that if they, if that was what was happening to them physically and emotionally, you know I just I'm not ball Nathan's an oddball, I love it. I would prefer. I played Full contact football for four decades, probably more than anybody you have ever met. But I would much rather be a defendant in a lawsuit.
Nathan Thornberry:I think there's a difference of scale here, nick. I don't think we're that as odd as we seem. I think that you know, like when you're, when you're 16, and you get pulled over, lit up by the cops, like you freak out and then either learn that there were the lesson, that there the consequences are not that bad unless you did something really really horribly wrong, or, you know, you try to avoid it in the future. For me, you know, I've been pulled over some 27 times and I just say hello, you know, and I think it's the same kind of thing when it comes to legal issues. You know, yeah, you eventually realize that it's like. It's like getting pulled over. Were you doing something wrong? Did you have a reason? What's the real consequence? And you start weighing that.
Nick Gromicko:Yeah, I mean, I can't. I can't tell you how many times that an internet you remember called me and said I'm getting sued. Yeah it turns out that they're not.
Ian Robertson:So I've never actually been sued.
Nick Gromicko:There's nothing for you to do right now. I'm sorry, compartmentalize.
Ian Robertson:I've never been sued. I've been in a home inspection industry now for just under 20 years, but I've been threatened several times and they're like I'm gonna sue you. I said, okay. They're like, ah, even attorneys will start to yell and get upset. I'm like, well, do it or don't. I mean I can't stop you. And when I learned like you, you guys said, once you learn that, you're like Okay. And they always went away because then they looked at in there like it's a juice really worth the squeeze. You know I really don't have anything.
Nick Gromicko:Yeah, I. I Once paid my entire law firm to stay up all night. This is a true story. Some guy you know I got I actually got emotionally angry. Some guy you know we are as an argument and he goes oh yeah, sue me, wrong thing to say to me. So I paid my law firm extra to stay up all night. We got the suit drafted by about 7 am. We got it to a sheriff by 9 am. I served him by 11 am the next day. Yeah, I mean, this stuff is is better than any Super Bowl to me. I Would rather be a defendant in a lawsuit Than to watch any ball across the line or go through a hoop.
Ian Robertson:Well, I'm glad then you guys are on the side of Home inspectors, because the guys that I'm talking to are nervous, especially knowing that that one guy paid out seven grand and some of them.
Nick Gromicko:We're not Homie. Don't do that. Please don't spend any money, don't give them any bank, a single pen, yeah.
Ian Robertson:and interestingly enough, these comments I have heard through the grapevine that guys are finding these quote-unquote comments and they've never had anything to do with report. Oh, so somebody shared a template with them once or they worded something Kind of like report host worded something or supposedly allegedly and they're just finding them. So this is gonna crop up more and more and guys are worried. What do I do? How do I know?
Nathan Thornberry:I Think if you're at home and you're an inspector and you want to take not a Nick or Nathan sized Step in the right direction on this, but you want to take a you size step, here's the two things you can do today. Number one if you're a report host client or considering report host, go to spectra. Why not Already? And he hasn't been sued there?
Nathan Thornberry:you go first, but the other thing is that you should do is and this, this would be an incredibly cool thing to do.
Nathan Thornberry:If you want to spend ten dollars making somebody's life hell.
Nathan Thornberry:Here's how you do it Get somebody to look up the home addresses I don't know who that might be of all the participants in report host and post it publicly and Then have everyone in the industry that is up for it today Write three certified letters to the place of their business and the place of their home and the other place of their home I think there's two of them, but I could be wrong and it should say in this here's a certified letter telling you that of exactly my sources, of all of my comments, I've gotten them exclusively from Internazhi and other industry participants, and I've never heard of your completely in irrelevant software company.
Nathan Thornberry:But if you would have a concern or have a Comment that you claim rights to, please send it back to me in the form of an Excel spreadsheet so that I can look and be not subjected to your frivolous Exploitations and and and just pummel them. If we pummel them with, with mail, and let them know that they, they are done, and Everybody that gets a notice from them everyone that gets a legal request. I'm not giving you this legal advice, but gosh, I mean, how are they going to stand up and and tell their attorneys yeah, we're gonna spend 10 to 15 grand on every single one of these little inspectors. They can't.
Nick Gromicko:I already called them yesterday. I called report hose yesterday. You get a voicemail. Some woman's Voice answers it very nice and polite, and I left them a message. I said if you sue an Internazhi member, I'm gonna view it as you sue me. So I know it's not like the Cuban missile crisis, but that's basically what we got going on here.
Nathan Thornberry:You know, a missile launch that a member is a missile launch, that that Nick Rameco's children Well, I think Nick Rameco should do what I just said, except for on his certified letter he should say please remove any mention or marks of mine from your website. I think that would be a good certified for them to.
Ian Robertson:We're running out of time here, guys, but I honestly I really can't thank you both enough for being on the show.
Nick Gromicko:This is a big yeah, I love here for Nathan, though, despite Nathan dot TV, lucky knows it's coming. I, despite Nathan dot TV, nathan, wait, wait.
Ian Robertson:What was that, Nick?
Nick Gromicko:Are there any other?
Ian Robertson:was in Nathan dot TV.
Nick Gromicko:Well, I just think yeah, I mean, the guess should be the day should be be rewarded, and that's the best I can do. Besides Nathan dot TV, are there any other URLs that you can promote today that we can help you with?
Nathan Thornberry:I think if you were to go to discover Breeze comm, you'd solve all of your environmental testing concerns. I'll probably make more money. And if you want to celebrate, just go to blue moon hemp calm, where we sell products that are not to be abused.
Nick Gromicko:And let me help with the branding with breeze.
Ian Robertson:If you guys can't see this if you listen to the audio version. Nick's hair is blowing in the wind and it and I think we have our new, our new logo and mascot for the for the breeze. Thank you, guys, you've been awesome.
Nathan Thornberry:Thank you.