Hustle Grind Shine & Reignite: Episode 5 with Raquel Willis

As a transgender, Black and queer woman - being the first is nothing new for Raquel Willis. As an award-winning writer, activist, media strategist and leader in this current human rights movement transforming the world, Ms. Willis has always harnessed the power of storytelling to share her truth and elevate the voices others. In this first episode of a two-part series, we start with her beginnings of growing up Black and Catholic in the Deep South, we learn about her struggles with self-identity and discovery at a time when there were minimal (and oftentimes harmful) representations of queer and trans people in media and entertainment, and how her outrage at the lack of awareness and action for the safety and security of Black and Brown trans people galvanized her activism. 

In this first episode we cover:

• The importance of finding community no matter where you are and the powerful impact that can have on your growth journey
• The triumphs and challenges in being “the first” and breaking so many barriers before the age of 30
• Why living your truth and standing in your power sometimes means taking a leap of faith, even when the odds are against you

About Raquel Willis

Raquel Willis is an award-winning writer, activist, and media strategist dedicated to Black transgender liberation. She has held groundbreaking roles throughout her career including director of communications for Ms. Foundation for Women, executive editor of Out magazine, and national organizer for Transgender Law Center.

As a thought leader on gender, race and intersectionality, her writing has been published in numerous publications, books and anthologies. Her writing has been published in Black Futures by Kimberly Drew and Jenna Wortham, Bulgari Magnifica: The Power Women Hold edited by Tina Leung, The Echoing Ida Collection edited by Kemi Alabi, Cynthia R. Greenlee, and Janna A. Zinzi, and Four Hundred Souls: A Community History of African America, 1619-2019 edited by Ibram X. Kendi and Keisha Blain. She has also written for Essence, Bitch, VICE, Buzzfeed, The Cut, and Vogue. During her time at Out, she published the GLAAD Media Award-winning “Trans Obituaries Project.” In 2023, she will release her debut memoir, I Believe in Our Power, about her coming of identity and activism with St. Martin’s Press. 

In 2020, Raquel was named to the Forbes 30 Under 30 and The Root 100 for a second time.  In 2021, Raquel was named to the University of Georgia’s 40 Under 40 and Fast Company’s Queer 50.

Transcript

Jessica Hartley: 0:01

Welcome to the hustle grind shine and reignite podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Hartley. Join me on another journey with amazing and talented professionals of color. We laugh and cry and take notes. But most of all be inspired all of this and more on our next episode of hustle, grind, shine. And let's go

Raquel Willis: 0:33

Hello and welcome to another episode of hustle grind, shine and reignite. I am your host, Jessica Hartley, and it is a pleasure to welcome you to our new show. I am so excited to welcome our guests today. Her name is Raquel Willis. She's an activist and advocate, a writer and author to be and also a media strategist. She's also in all transparency. Amazing. And my sister. So Raquel, I'm so excited to welcome you to the show. Welcome says thank you. I'm so excited to be on. Oh yes, I'm so excited. And I know a lot of your journey and your story, as a woman, as a trans woman, as a journalist, as a writer, as a model all of these things that you are, which is just so amazing. I'm so so proud of you. But I'm excited to share a little bit of your career journey and your story with our audience and our listeners. So I'm going to take me back, I'm going to take you back back into time. And let's go all the way back to childhood and talk a little bit about what it was like growing up in the Willis household. And what did you want to be? And do you see some elements of what you wanted to be as a kid reflected in some of the things that you do now? Yeah. Oh, Lord, here we go. traveling back to Augusta, Georgia. I think growing up in our household, we knew that we had to do something once. From high school. Well, we knew college that was just a given we had to do it. And there was no question no question, none. You know, it's a blessing. You know, I don't say that. It's like it's a burden. i It's definitely a blessing to have folks. And not just our immediate family, but our extended family, our grandparents, our audience, folks pushing us to be like, eventually having careers that could sustain us and be self so we can be self sufficient. Obviously, well, obvious to you, I guess I think the initial kind of thoughts around a career was being a pediatrician that was kind of instilled in me as a kid by our grandmother, grandma. Wrestle rest in power. Girl I knew as a force to be reckoned with. Yes, she was for sure. And so that was kind of big. And I mean, I don't know, really, where that concept of a career for me came from for her. But it was just drilled into me. That was what you were going to be early on, you know, you'd say baby doctor, because what five year old? Thank you. I remember that. I don't know where that came from. I always, you know, our grandmother was a pharmacist assistant when she was a physician's assistant and also a pharmacy technician. And yeah, I don't know, I just remember that. Was it like you taking care of kids and babies? And yes, being a baby doctor, I remember us talking about that. But I don't know where that came from. And I mean, it was also one of those things that was just like, it sticks, right? I mean, the same was like, you know, nicknames and things like that stick when you're a child, I felt like you being a pediatrician and a baby doctor was just there. It was just there. And, you know, I think that there are a few different things. I mean, I was the youngest, I think, you know, and and I also there are such a gap between us and and so, this kind of idea of like, well, you do these things that we have made up in our minds for you these expectations. We've made up in our minds for you, because you're the youngest person to be in the Munch after a while and so yeah, you know, all those ideas of like, be a doctor be a lawyer. I think one of the doctor ideas just was attached to me. Yeah. And I do remember having a sense of like, well, I do like the idea. There was like something very noble about doing something that would help other folks. Right. And so I definitely latched on to that we grew up in a family where volunteers What's so important? Yeah, that's those tenants of stewardship from church are kind of echoed in our head. And I think even just the the kind of smaller town, or at least medium sized town idea of like community was important for us. And so I really think that eventually that laid the foundation for my activism work. But of course, like they're also had some kind of like a practical idea. And I think when I got to high school, I was figuring out myself around that time, I came out as gay at that point, because I had no idea about what it meant to be trans or gender identity and the difference between that and sexual orientation. But I found a yearbook staff. And so I was a yearbook nerd, you know, going around taking pictures of classmates all all the time, I still have so many of those photos. And you know, people would be like, go away, like, why, like, whatever. But then of course, they'd like ham it up, because this was like, right before we all had like smart phones. And so, you know, people were hammered up for the camera, because it was still cool to be asked, you know, to have your phone to take a picture. Yeah, that was a really big deal. Yeah. So I remember journalism as a word came into my lexicon because I, obviously the yearbook? Well, I mean, maybe not obvious to folks. But yearbook class, was a class. So one thing that we worked on out, outside, I mean, we did work on it outside of school, but it wasn't, but it wasn't like a club after school that you just kind of join, it was actually built into the curriculum. And I mean, I think it's probably important to share here. I mean, you didn't go to just the old regular high school, right, having what is ever regular. You know, I went to a, what we call magnet schools here in the south, and in Georgia, I went to a magnet school and you went to the school that I went to, and I obviously went on to a different school, but you went to a fine arts, you know, an art school that allowed for all of those things. So that was also a tremendous opportunity as well. Yeah, you know, and I think when I was thinking about going to that school, I think part of it for me was I needed a safe haven as a queer kid because I have been bullied in school for a long time. And that was something that I actually was very good at, compartmentalizing and like keeping out of the purview of our family. Like none of our family. You know, Mom, Dad, you are broke. I had no idea. I knew I was bullying. I think for me, it was like I had to save face. I didn't want anyone else to know that I was being bullied at school, because then I knew the inevitable idea would be okay, well, what are you doing? What what are you going to know different? Because we don't see it? We don't understand. So you got to be doing something different outside of the house. You know, it doesn't have to make sense. Because at that time, you know, our language culturally and socially about queerness was still so devolved. And even as a queer person, it was. So yes, I mean, your book was my safe haven. And I loved it, but on the door to the yearbook class and said journalism, it doesn't entirely make sense, but that's how they coded the course. And I was like, Okay, well, I guess maybe journalism makes sense as a major. And maybe working in publications makes sense, because I did watch like ugly baddie did watch like The Devil Wears Prada. I remember those characters. And I obviously didn't want to be like a villain like a Miranda Priestly or a Willamina Slater from those shows or respectively. But I did love the idea that like, they were some badass women. And I know in my head, I was like, that's cool. I love writing. I also had a secret life wanting to be a songwriter. I don't think I knew that either. But I started my writing in writing songs. I still have like, some of the notebooks that are like tattered now, but it was almost like poetry. So at least like family knew I wrote poetry to an extent because I write like, poems and stuff during like holidays or family reunions. But I you know, and I was nurtured in that to an extent like, I would create things for school, but there was never kind of this idea of oh, you can be a writer. It but it was something that was nurtured to an extent like and people would notice Yeah, I would have to do recitations for different things. And, and I always did well in language arts classes, and grammar classes and stuff like that. So I think that paves the way for me to eventually study journalism. And how did you make the decision to? You're like, Okay, your book journalism, pediatrician is now out the door, med school that have a, how did you make the decision about where you were going to go to school? And I guess finding a place that was going to be that place that was going to be your home for, you know, three or four years? Yeah, well, the interesting thing was when I was choosing schools and my college search, it really wasn't as much about this specific program or that specific program. I mean, to an extent, I narrowed the list down of schools that did have journalism programs that were like solid, so I only applied to schools that had solid journalism programs. But I also applied based on location because I felt like the only way for me to to start to kind of live fully in my queerness was to move out of the south to move out of Georgia, and particularly to a bigger metropolitan area. And so the only one in that lineup that I really knew I was New York, I mean, Marley, because pretty much all the media of like, the 90s, for the most part, everything was based in New York. I mean, you think about like the Cosby Show, we're not going down that road, based in New York. Based in New York, you know, yeah, the shows are like San Francisco. But the idea of moving to the west at that point was so foreign. So yeah, so I really wanted to go to New York University. You know, this, and I do I know, I was there. I mean, I was living in New York at the time, right? So we can say, what would your life had been? Like? Had you been able to go to NYU, but here you are. So you know, in spite of all of those things, but I mean, you know, the same thing that I struggled with when I went to school is, with all the privilege that we had growing up, and we had a lot of it in nurturing and capable parents. I mean, I couldn't afford NYU. I couldn't afford, you know, we went to Purdue couldn't I mean, that loans? Still Still I think I finally just paid off my undergraduate. Right. So yeah, it was tough, tough to make those decisions. But yeah, I mean, and to that point, I mean, I obviously was very inspired by you having gone off and left Georgia. You know, I was like, Okay, well, that is possible. It is possible. It was I had this kind of idea, I think, within all of that privilege, so all I had to do was name it, and claim it. And then it would happen as almost everything else in life for me up until that point had, right. Yeah, but that didn't happen. And so literally, my last choice was the University of Georgia. So it was in the lineup. I think someone had to I don't even maybe it was you. But someone had said, Well, you should at least apply to at least one school. That probably was me, because that's what I mean, I cut from the same cloth. I was like, I gotta get out. And so I applied to one school in Georgia. I was like, I'm not going to UGA amazing school, great, great things. And all the ways mom got her a tour heard or at least he had her doctorate from UGA. So we were familiar with University of Georgia familiar with Athens and all of that. I didn't apply to UGA. I was like, I don't want to go here. And I applied to Clark Atlanta, wanted, I was like, Well, let me throw an HBCU in the mix, and apply to Clark Atlanta. But you know, very much like you wanted to needed to get out and wanted to get out. I also think about and this crossed my mind. I feel like we've talked about this at some point, though, that because I was the first because I got out that impacted you not being able to get out because they had paid. I had my loans, but then they were still paying parental loans. And so I also think that that again, you know, life turns out to be what it is, and we will keep going on this amazing journey that you have. But I definitely feel and no, I mean, I can only imagine that my experience and me getting out which was great. And I did sort of pave the way for us to leave if you want it to leave, but the financial impact of what that was and we didn't know what we were doing at the time subsidized loans, unsubsidized loans. I got to Small scholarship, but that had an impact and a dent on our parents finances, too. So I can imagine they were still paying those loans. And they were like no way we can layer on a whole nother set of loans for that. So well, you know, I think also in hindsight, and just knowing more politically when I graduated from high school in 2009, and it literally was in the midst of the fallout from the economic recession. So, which is something we definitely didn't realize I didn't even think about that. When you say it like that. I'm like, Oh, my goodness, yes. Because I was 2008, I was working at an agency, the bottom fell out, a bunch of people got laid off living in New York, and that was definitely a tough time. need to think about that. Yeah. So I mean, I knew that like, well, I know now at least, right, that impacted things. And then of course, that wouldn't impact the industry that my peers, and I wouldn't hear it in journalism, because a few years down the road, you know, I'm coming into the start of a career where there aren't as many resources, there aren't as many opportunities, people aren't taking as many chances in terms of hiring. I mean, you literally had somebody in New York, right. And because I wasn't in New York, it limited my opportunity, I almost would not have even been able to work in journalism, if I hadn't had some type of, you know, persistence or stubbornness to say, No, I'm going to use this degree, I just spent all these years studying, and actually figure out what was going to happen. So I had to also take on some flexibility. But I think the other part of this too, was that storytelling was shifting the way that people were connecting with shifting, because social media. Mm hmm. Loaded while I was in college, so it's started just before with like, in high school, you know, I was a part of that, that initial group of folks and on MySpace, right. And as Facebook kind of built out into something that wasn't just in a northeastern college sphere, right. But I was taking courses in journalism, that these were, oh, geez, of course, who had all of these kinds of bona fides, in terms of journalism, but they weren't taking the digital space seriously, still, even after like, a decade of lead time, you know, we're going into the 2010s. And it's still, we're going to teach you all of these kind of outdated ways of communicating that don't take into consideration that in a few years, you'll probably have to get your start writing friggin BuzzFeed, listicles, to even start making a splash because those traditional jobs weren't really there. Now, I was lucky. So my first job out of college, I worked at the Watson Tribune, a newspaper and was in County, Georgia. So I'm still in Georgia at this point. But I will say, you know, even though it wasn't where I wanted to be, it was a traditional newspaper reporter job. And so there were so many things that I was able to kind of work out skills wise, and storytelling, and listening for the real story, in that experience. So I loved the work of gathering these stories, talking to unlikely characters in this kind of local context. And having this kind of mission to document this place. And take this place seriously. That may be for most of the folks who live there. They never felt like it was taken seriously because that, you know, that's an wound, or a trauma in a sense, not in like a nomadic way. But that I think a lot of folks who don't grow up in metropolitan bubbles carry around, we know what it feels like to not feel like our stories matter, because of Nord in New York, if you're not in the big city in your state. And then if you're not having this kind of traditional, professional trajectory, your story often is not considered relevant or sexy enough for the masses to think about and consume. So I think, in some ways, being forced by so many different forces to stay put and for a lot longer to cook low, longer and slow cooker, I love bacon bacon. It, it solidified the fact that, to me, actually the most important stories are not the ones that happen in these kind of big metropolitan places. And we've seen that now especially politically right. Part of the reason we're so divided is because everyone I mean, I writ large on both sides feels like their stories are not seen as important, right? Or the stories that are marginalized are not often censored enough. Or when they are censored. The corners are cut off, they're diluted down to fit and to these kind of old, you know, Zeitgeist The wave of talking about them. I hope that makes sense. No, that makes sense. I mean, they're it, they're all sort of repackaged into, I mean, a dying framework, a dying narrative, that is still like, even as progressive as a lot of things have gotten are still wrapped in patriarchy, still wrapped in racism still wrapped in homophobia and queer folk. I mean, they're still all through a lens, right? Because even when we think about new narratives, and storytelling and messaging, that we're trying to tell, oftentimes, when I, you know, coming from marketing in the world of advertising, we are still trying to reframe new things in a way that people can understand them, which means you are changing, versus just presenting it the way it is. I mean, that's why, you know, when you think about storytelling, and media, and movies and TV, it's like, okay, well, I'm not trying to translate my story for you, I want you to understand my story as it needs to be told. So that resonates a lot with me. So talk to me about the jump the leap from Walton, and small town, Georgia. So you I mean, you went from Augusta, to Athens to really, really small town, Georgia. And then that was I mean, to your point, I think a bit of a catalyst for you. Yeah, right. I mean, there was an ongoing tension as well, because, you know, I had that first job. But I also went into the closet. So I was not out to in general to folks as being trans or queer, in that first job, because I honestly did not believe I would be hired if I was that candid, and authentic, or that I would be able to keep my job being an openly trans queer woman. And so that was weird. So there's the tension of having less college where virtually everyone I went to school with knew that I was trans because they had witnessed the transition throughout, at least socially, and aesthetically, through my college years. And then now within this job that was literally in a town that was like, several miles away, not even that far, but it was its own little enclave, when there wasn't enough of a distance that I could be stealth, which is when you're not out as being trans. And that was the dream. I mean, almost 10 years ago, you know, the holy grail for a lot of trans people was, if you are blessed enough to start your transition early enough, and pass so to speak, and that you can kind of move through the world undetected as a trans person, like people wouldn't think that you are, then that was the route for survival. And now that felt like the only way I would ever even have a chance to have a career. So I was there. And it started to be difficult being stealth, but it still just felt like something I had to do. But I still wanted to get out of this space because I at least wanted different community. So I didn't have a lot of black queer folks in my life just by the virtue of the area that I was in being very conservative, but also being very quiet. So most of the people I knew at that time were white trans people. And so I started to look for new job because I just knew I needed to go to Atlanta. Now the other piece of it though, I will say the final straw for me and deciding to move to Atlanta and try and find a new job was I had been given this project to start the first like local Women's mag, it was still basically like a newspaper, mag kind of situation, it wasn't gonna be like super long or super glossy. But it was gonna be like a quarterly publication that was elevating women's voices. And I would be like, essentially the the lead on it like to edit all these different things I could curate and choose the content, the contributors, all of that, you know, that hearken back to the yearbook experience, it gave me a little bit of that, like, Okay, this is something I could live for a little bit in my career. And then, I think, within the week of, we're about to have our casting call for the first cover of it. I was gonna be called flights. I love it. And it was so cute. Like, I was so excited. I was like, outside of the weekly cop opinion columns that I got to write work, I would try and insert my social justice leanings. And sometimes I got hate mail for it. To be honest, I was really excited about that we got a brand new publisher. So out with this kind of, you know, very stereotypical white and blonde lady who never saw it for me until this project came on her radar. And she was like, Oh, you're perfect for it. This is gonna be great. And then it was like, Oh, I'm a real person in the room. Because let's be real, we know how some of these white women in the professional space can be where, you know, they know you're there. But it's like a weird, like, they see you as competition. And also they don't see you as anything, as all Yeah. And so there was that invisible tension. But at least there was at that point, we could connect on like, oh, womanhood, whatever, like, let, we're doing it for the girls. She was out. And then we got in this whites, this straight man who was very stereotypically masculine, he basically scrapped the entire magazine project, wow, and use the energy around that to be FIP sports reporting. So it was kind of like, it was like a TV show. I was gonna say, it's just like a TV show or movie just like, Okay, we're doing that now. Wow. And I will say, you know, I really appreciated that my first boss, so the woman was the publisher, but my immediate boss was my editor, the editor of the team. And I will say, you know, he was very supportive of me. I mean, obviously, I wasn't out but he, he knew that I was like, you know, this little liberal girl who just graduated from college and bright eyed, like, has all these kind of stereotypically like, young idea of pushing the envelope, and he supported it as much as he could. And also cautioned me, he was like, you know, you write this, you write that you're going to get this. Our audiences leans conservative, like, he was very candid about those things. But in general, he did in censure me. So I have to say that, like, I was lucky in that first job when I was learning those skills that to an extent he was very supportive. But I had to get out of there. I was like, Okay, I don't want to stay any longer. I have been there for over a year at this point. And I wasn't making any money. To be clear as a newspaper reporter in this small town. Like I said, that's why I didn't go into I mean, that's why I didn't I mean, I, yeah, yeah. So I got a new job at this company called HowStuffWorks. It now has a podcast empire. But wow. And a lot of people don't remember like it was, was Wikipedia around even though I mean, maybe so but it was like, it was the step by step like house stuff, where it's just I did while you're taking me back. It was like, you know, you had those sites that were Yeah, essentially like a Wikipedia in a sense. It was a little bit more editorial. But it was essentially like, we're going to break down these different things, you know, whatever you could think of. So they had articles about it. So it was very Wikipedia. Like it was very, like about.com. That was a thing. I know, it probably still is a thing, but you know, so I went there, but I was not writing. So I was actually producing content in this job. That's how much I wanted to get out of that environment. I chose a job Where I was a digital publisher was the role but essentially, I was doing like SEO optimization, and some editing some light editing. But it was it less, in some ways less fulfilling job. And it's probably more more like that content management. Yep. type of role versus to your point that the content creation piece was where you shine and thrive, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, that and that felt fulfilling this felt like I was, you know, just the peg in the festival, essentially, it wasn't for lack of trying to put myself out there. I mean, I wrote, I think I wrote at least one or two articles. I was a guest on some of the pre existing podcasts. But of course, that didn't happen until after I came out. So within like, a month or so of being in this new role, because I had kind of come to that job. I was like, Okay, well, I'm not going to have these hard and fast rules about staying in the closet, like if the opportunity arose, and I had to come out, I will just take the leap, because I didn't want to feel like I had to hide who I was, or was this led me just lie by omission, essential or hide by omission. And you're using the word hide, and I want people to understand that this is literally about safety and security. It is not about purposeful deception to get over it is about safety, and survival. Right. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's so interesting to think even for me, but this was 2014. So what that was seven years ago about in this time frame, so much has shifted around the concept of trans folks, you know, like, it's not easy by any means. I think actually, in some ways, it's become even more difficult to be openly trans for a lot of people. But at this time, most folks really had no understanding about trans people. You know, like it was, I mean, literally, you would tell someone, and it was almost like, they look at you like you're an alien, like, at least now, right? They still might do a little bit of that, but it's not as foreign. I have an idea how many strides invisibility. Now the other thing too, is I'm only 30. And the thing is, is that people have this idea that I am a part of a group of folks who have trans folks who kind of came into ourselves within this visibility era, but honestly, I didn't like the the bulk of my early transition in college happened just before the visibility wave started. Literally the week that I took my first interviews for a job after graduating from undergrad was the week that oranges and new black premiered. Which Wow obviously featured Laverne Cox. So that which is considered the start of this visibility era. Like if you're gonna think of any particular star is Laverne Cox starring in Orange is the New Black. And then that week as well, was when the George Zimmerman trial and so that is considered by the creators of Black Lives Matter as like an inciting incident for the start of the Black Lives Matter movement. So as I was coming into my professional life, the terrain was shifting on so many different fronts, for me, identity wise, and the only reason I have all of this awareness now is because I'm working on a memoir, and I've had to work to kind of figure out okay, what is my origin story as an actor, right. So and so that's wild to think about, but I literally within the same sort of time frame so it's, it's interesting to be where I am as I'm 12 years older than you and experience it from a you know, a different vantage point also being a parent, but just experiencing it in that way. And in the connection of those things. And what the connection of though, you know, because for me, I wouldn't have connected the George Zimmerman thing which very much was poignant for us as black Americans, but like I wouldn't have connected that with the debut of Orange is the New Black and Laverne Cox but obviously, those things coming together for someone like you and others in the community. Wow. I mean, those are pretty powerful things to also have the balance, the excitement, and have the visibility of being seen or just having more people see the humanity in the realness, but also, that no matter what of all those things are happening, and that are great and awesome and wonderful, still living in a system and in a society that doesn't see any of us as human in a lot of ways, right. So wow, powerful connections there. Yeah, I mean, you know, I think the other thing, I've also realized, as I'm kind of working on this book is, within a month of even those incidents, was the first case that I I really was kind of shook and paid deeper attention to around the black trans woman being murdered, named Alon nettles. So that happened in New York, I guess it was August 2013. This was also just before I got this job at this newspaper. So I was becoming very aware of the consequences of being known as trans in everyday life. And this was a kind of isolated education I was happening because when I was in college, I didn't know another black trans woman in person. I didn't know another black trans woman until I moved to Atlanta and found black trans community. I knew why trans people, I knew a few trans folks of color, mostly trans masculine people. But I didn't know another openly black trans person in my everyday life. Like I knew people who like the Janet Mock our initial article that kind of told her story had come out on Marie Claire, when I was still in college, obviously started to know about Laverne Cox, there was an athlete named chi alums who I hadn't met who came to give a talk. There was Courtney Ziegler, who was a black trans masculine scholar, who had come to speak at our college, but in everyday life, I didn't know another black trans person. So there were there were so much distance as well. So yeah, so when I was in Atlanta, and the inciting incident for me to come out, at the second job, was the suicide of a young trans girl named Lila Alcorn. And so she had published her suicide letter to post on Tumblr after committing the act. This was December 2014. And I remember reading that story. I remember reading her suicide ladder, and essentially baked into it was a call to action. So she had been ostracized by peers, by school officials, and by their religious family, and had actually been isolated, and tried, you know, they tried to do essentially, like a conversion therapy experience on her, and it drove her to commit suicide. And so in the suicide letter, one of the lines that stuck out to me was fake Society, please, huh. And I took that personally, because I was like, you know, Well, damn, you know, I am contributing to this idea that we have to stay in the closet and silent about who we are. And I consider myself a storyteller, a writer, journalist, all these different things. And yeah, you know, I'm kind of writing about these issues. Tangentially. But I'm not even being authentic about who I am. So that pushed me I was just overcome with emotion. And I have stacked I was like, I don't know what to do. But I stacked up these books on my little rinky dink coffee table, and put my laptop top up and I was like, I'm gonna make a video and maybe I'll post it on YouTube. I do this video, and I really didn't have a desire to be a YouTube tuber or anything like that. But I posted the video where I'm like, ugly crying, but essentially saying, you know, like, I'm a black trans woman in this society. And this is not right. We've got to do better by trans youth. They deserve to be who they are. And I think I got about like 4000 views which I mean, it was like, Oh, God, like back then that was a big deal. And I don't even know. Did you? I don't think I knew that you did you share the video with us at the time. I don't think you did share it with family. I just posted it, I think on my Facebook. Right? And and on Twitter. But I, yeah, I wasn't. But I wasn't necessarily trying to be seen like it was very different time. Like now so much of what we do on social media is about getting the eyes on the looks. And then it genuinely was not about being visible or being seen in that way. It was about being visible to an extent of like, adding a story and a face here, and also acknowledging that this had affected me. I couldn't obviously say that to Leila, but I could at least like express it in some way. And it got some views. And then next thing I knew, like, I think the next day or so, the BBC contacted me and was like, Well, will you do an interview? We saw your video, oh, wait.

Jessica Hartley: 41:18

Maybe see cross cross support? Yes. Really?

Raquel Willis: 41:27

Why that happens. I was like, I'm not even out at work out at work. You know, that was how naive my or maybe not even naive, because I had an understanding, obviously, of how social media work and that anyone could access it. But I but still back then it wasn't everything wasn't so interconnected. I wasn't like, everyone now has a brand and a persona. Even if that media isn't their work. Then it was like, well, the folks who I'm friends with on Facebook weren't necessarily I like I wasn't friends with folks that I worked with, or any of that. Yeah, there was a lot of separation of church and state, a lot of separation of family, friends, all that kind of stuff back then. Yeah. And so the BBC called so that was, that was the first right like that was really the first big media opportunity, also for you to not be representing other people's story, but to be representing your story in your narrative to the world. Right. So that that would really I would say, be kind of the activist origin story. But I was not so into myself that, you know, that I thought of myself as an activist off of that. But I remember doing that. And then actually, I had a conversation with you. I was like, Oh, the BBC reached out. And you were like, well, what do you say? And I was like, Yeah, I said, I would do it. I mean, I'm nervous. Then you're like, Okay, so when are you coming out at work? And then I was like, I said that to you? I was like, do I have to? And you're like, Yeah, you work. And I did. Yeah. Shout out to all the big sisters of big siblings giving sage advice. And also a sister who has worked in media marketing and everything, too. So I did, I came out of work. And I mean, I was nervous, for sure. But it was a much more open environment. I mean, it was also Atlanta, you know, so my immediate boss was like, That's great. I'll just have to talk to our big big boss. She talked to him. He was like a sad, dude. So I was like, oh, Lord, but he actually was even seemingly even more supportive than her. Because he was from the Pacific Northwest, you know, so I think that played a role in it, but they were supportive. They were like, do it, you should do it if you want to do it. And then I did it. And it was called World have your say, and I was on BBC, you know, so people heard it. And that was it. I do believe though also that they found me on Twitter after I reshared it from you too. And so that was interesting, too, because that that became the time where you were reached out to sources on social media. So that blew everything open. And I think after that, I was like, Okay, I'm out. Even though I'm working in this role that doesn't fulfill my need for like community or to be speaking truth to power, I can now start to merge some of these parts of my life, these disparate parts of my life. So I can be trans and my job. In everyday life, I started going to community organizing events, and meeting people getting closer to folks in the particularly in the queer and trans, like social justice Atlanta scene. And that led me to, in some ways, kind of feeling like I had this like, dual job. I mean, all of my organizing and stuff was unpaid. But it was so fulfilling that it didn't matter. Right. And, you know, I think it was, it might have been interesting to some of my peers that, you know, I had this very professional life as a black trans woman. And also I was doing this kind of organizing and community work. And those were things that I wanted to continue to bring the whole way. But there was a point where about a year and a half, and I was I had wanted to integrate these parts of my life more. And so I was like, Okay, well, I'm doing all this stuff outside of work. I'm doing interviews every now and then and stuff and writing freelance for other publications. Mm hmm. I was like, I pitched a podcast idea that was on kind of the emergence of the movement for black lives, which an amazing idea, like it wasn't very much ahead of the curve, but maybe too, ahead of the curve. Because the people I work my immediate boss was like, No, we need you to do basically, this SEO stuff, like, we need you to do. You're not one of the podcasters they have different podcasts. They had no podcasters of color, won, essentially, like a roster of at least seven or eight podcasts. And they had a feminist podcast. So they were like, Well, we already got the gender thing covered. But it was two white women, they weren't even clear. Neither one of them were even clear, you know, to whites, straight woman. And I, you know, and I don't mean that to be shady to them. Because they did good work. They actually brought me on as a guest for a couple of their themselves. So they did see me. So it wasn't that they were being roadblocks. In fact, they were actually platform me. So I have to give them kudos for that. But I, I had, you know, these immediate bosses now who were not. So yeah, in terms of the workpiece have what I wanted to create. And so that pushed me to kind of figure out okay, well, what am I going to do? And I realized, Okay, well, I Well, there was another incident where there was another murder of a black cisgender straight man. I mean, during that time, there was somebody, it felt like almost every other week, because we were just starting to pay more and more attention to these national dynamics around police brutality in particular. And I remember everyone on the timeline on Black Twitter, you know, we were all in mourning, like everyone was talking about how much this day sucks. I can't remember if it was we had learned more information about someone who had been murdered by police. Or if a murder to come down that did something happen, right? It was I remember that timeframe. I don't remember who it was. But there were so many. But I remember going into work that day. My spirit was the good, like, I didn't talk to anybody, or anything. And it was business as usual. Yeah. You know, these most moving for ignoring donate not didn't even register with? No, I mean, that's the other thing too, you know, wasn't the like George Floyd where you knew everyone knew that it literally was like that, you know, kind of double consciousness that WEB DuBois talked about, of like, black American living in a completely different world. Were paying attention to this case of police brutality, but my mostly white co workers work and we were having completely different day. Yeah. And I was just like, I can't be a pagan to this in the system anymore. Like, I can't be putting my energy into a company where there isn't an awareness around what is happening. Yeah. And so that started my foray. And so nonprofits and me trying to figure out okay, well, I guess I'll work in nonprofits, because there was the assumption that all the values aligned. And then so I was sure there are lots of nonprofit folks out there that are chuckling or maybe crying a little bit, right? Because the nonprofit space can be as challenging, sometimes corrupt, or dealing with the same I mean, all rooted in in systemic racism and patriarchy as well. Right? Yeah. So you went. So that is sort of catalysts, you're like, I'm, I'm at a place, I need something that's gonna bring me together. And then you moved into nonprofit. And so let's talk a little bit about that. But I mean, I feel like for you, you know, as your sister being along this, the ride with you, and then I'll say, the backseat maybe cheering you on is sort of meteoric in terms of just like there and then moving back into media, and then kind of getting to where you are now. Yeah, I mean, you know, everything was still practical, in a sense, like I knew, whatever new role I took, it had to have something that would improve my quality of life. If it wasn't going to be PE, then it had to be something. And I did, I was made going to make a little bit more in this next role that I ended up taking a Transgender Law Center, I was going to be working in communications, so it was still in the realm of like storytelling. I mean, I had an idea of like, okay, well, I can make this role be what I need it to be. I always felt that to an extent after a certain point, because the role that I had before I did not have that flexibility. So I again, thought that I would have that flexibility going into this role. But this job actually require me to move from Atlanta, to Oakland, California, and the place that, you know, when you were in high school, and college felt so boring, and here you are, you know, finally about to leave Georgia for the first time at like, 25. I had just turned 25 You know, so, so let's be clear, I will be thoroughly southern for my entire life, because that's about a quarter of a century. Not a quarter on somebody can ever be like, Oh, you left Georgia, whatever, whatever. No, honey. I was thinking of that phrase that growing up. I remember I it was one of my favorite things. I had a t shirt from Cracker Barrel, and it was pink, and say grits girls raised in the south. And I was thinking about that this weekend. And I was like, Yeah, even though I went to school in Indiana, I lived in New York for 14 years have lived now I lived in Portland for a couple of years of ZiL grits. Still Reverend grits out. I mean, a quarter of a century look, hey, don't don't talk to me. Sorry. But, um, but going to Oakland. I mean, I was sad to leave the community I found in Atlanta, black, queer trans folks in particular for the first time. But I was excited to be somewhere different. I had an assumption, it might be a little easier. Whatever that meant. It wasn't New York. But it was it was something else. It was close to San Francisco. So I had all these ideas. So when I went to work at trans Law Center, trying to think of like the immediate differences. I mean, it this sense of like, family did feel stronger in this space, because for the first time, I was working at a place that was mostly trans people. You know, it was very, it was just still an anomaly even now, right. 2021 still an anomaly for, you know, entire organizations to be represented in that way. Yeah, I mean, interestingly, now especially if you're in nonprofits, and you're wanting to work in organizing. I mean, there's just a vast network of trans led organizations and initiatives, which a lot of people don't know about. So it is more even more possible now to work at somewhere that was led by a trans person and mostly has trans folks on staff. Now, most of those staffs are small, but it's still possible, then, I mean, that was rare. And I became very close to a lot of people they are, and I learned so much more about kind of the national context of our community, the history of our community. A lot more of the social justice history, particularly from a trans perspective is documented in Oakland, California, documented in the bay. Similar to like New York, the thing about Georgia, in Atlanta is like, there's always been trans people they are, and I met many of those trans elders while they were there, but it's not as documented. So you have to do the digging, so and the work and have the conversations to know that. So it was interesting being in a place where that was well documented. Obviously, Oakland is like home to the Black Panthers lower of the past. And so there was that social justice history. Right. So yeah, I mean, I, it was an interesting experience. And when I was there, I mean, I was doing more work that was connected to community because, you know, our audiences on social media, I was largely in charge of like, the digital kind of presence was our community mostly and wasn't as much allies at that point. And so But I continue to kind of build in independent presence, from that work and from the organization. Because I just had been in that mode from my last job where everything was so separated, so I think, even though it felt like things that completely merged together, professionally, that wasn't true. Like I still always had an independent hustle.

Jessica Hartley: 57:38

Thank you for listening to another episode of hustle, grind, shine and reignite. If you liked this episode, like, subscribe and share on all your favorite podcasts. I hope you'll tune in to the next episode featuring another amazing and talented, professional color. In the meantime, shine bright