#131 - Why Training Mechanics Aren't Enough

You can have the fanciest training plan in the world—but if you skip the “soft” skills, you’re building on shaky ground. This week, Allie and Emily dive into the four soft skills that make everything else work: observation, curiosity, flexibility, and empathy. Along the way, you’ll hear about Oso’s epic garden-bed heists, why boob pillows aren’t just for people, and the heartbreaking moment Miley met a bonsai. It’s equal parts practical advice and “oh-my-gosh-same” moments you’ll want to share with every pet person you know.

TLDL (too long, didn’t listen): 

1️⃣ Observation – Go beyond surface-level body language and look for subtle environmental and behavioral patterns that tell a deeper story.

2️⃣ Curiosity – Ask “why” with openness, make hypotheses, and be okay with being wrong—it’s how you get to the real answers.

3️⃣ Flexibility & Empathy – Be willing to pivot, simplify, and view the situation from your learner’s perspective so everyone’s needs get met.

For the full episode show notes, including the resources mentioned in this episode, go here.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Allie: you have to have curiosity and. Before we get into like what that can, can look like as far as observing our learners, I want to make it really clear that curiosity doesn't just mean like asking like, why is this happening or Uhhuh, that's interesting. I want to know more. It also means understanding that you are making. Hypotheses you are making guesses and that you are going to be wrong and it's okay to be wrong. I think that's a really important part of that curiosity skillset or that curiosity soft skill is being okay with being wrong, or else you don't go far enough. Down the curiosity rabbit hole as it were.

Welcome to Enrichment for the Real World, the podcast devoted to improving the quality of life of pets and their people through enrichment. We are your hosts, Allie Bender...

[00:01:06] Emily: ...and I'm Emily Strong...

[00:01:07] Allie: ...and we are here to challenge and expand your view of what enrichment is, what enrichment can be and what enrichment can do for you and the animals in your lives. Let's get started.

Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Enrichment for the Real World, and I want to thank you for rating, reviewing, and subscribing wherever you listen to podcasts.

In this episode, you're going to hear Emily and I talk about Emily is really good at language, but also words are hard. Also making his own boob pillow. Emily's Wildlife, PSA, the behavior that I've been battling for years and Miley making Emily cry. Alright, let's get into it.

[00:01:49] Emily: A lot of dog people, both pet parents and behavior professionals, really focus on training mechanics and protocols and completing things. And those things can be important, but I think both dogs and people would be better off if we placed less emphasis on the hard skills and placed more emphasis on The soft skills that don't get discussed that often. So I guess before we start talking about the skills themselves, uh, let's talk about why we're calling them hard and soft skills. What does that even mean? heck, if I know, I guess, um. Hard skills are more active and therefore more easily operationalizable, operationalizable. That's a hard word to say. I'm gonna try that again, Ellen. We're gonna get this right on the third time. Third time's the charm. Here we go. And therefore, more easily operationalizable, whereas soft skills are more passive and therefore harder to operationalize or teach. Or maybe even articulate.

I don't know. I think I just made that up. Uh, Allie, what are your thoughts? Do you have a better way to distinguish between hard and soft skills?

[00:03:02] Allie: I don't have a better way to distinguish, and, and I don't think you made that up. I feel like that's, that, like that's a definition that flies in society.

[00:03:14] Emily: I mean, I'm not, I didn't make up hard skills and soft skills. I just have never seen a definition for them. So I'm kind of trying to define them like by the seat of my pants and I, I. I'm probably not nailing it, but, uh, but anyway, let's just dive in to these skills that we're calling soft skills in this episode.

And then, you know, if anybody wants to argue their designation as soft skills, that's cool. We can leave that discussion for later. Right? Uh, so let's just keep going with our working definition, no matter how crappy that definition may be, and roll with it. 'cause that's what we do. We roll with the, the weirdness of. Everything of life. I'm fine, y'all. Everything's fine. It's fine. We've got this. We know how to do things on this podcast. Look at us. Go. For those of you who can't see, Ali's dying right now. She's dying, she's laughing at me because apparently defining hard and soft skills is not my strong suit.

[00:04:07] Allie: I, the thing that's hilarious to me is we just had this entire discussion about how language is so important to you and how you choose your words so carefully, and then I sat through, that definition, explanation.

[00:04:26] Emily: Okay. Wow. Attacking me on the podcast. I see. That's cool. That's cool. Um, it's fine. You know what words are hard. Words are important, but they're also hard, so it's fine. It's fine. We're gonna go with it. We're gonna go with it. We're gonna roll with it. All right. Here we go. So these are the four soft skills that we think should be the main emphasis, and then the hard skills are like.

What you build on. So like, okay. Okay. The soft skills are the foundation. You need a really strong foundation, and then you can like plop the hard skills on top of it and make yourself a little building. Okay. That's, that's how we're gonna define these or differentiate them. I'm getting an approving nod from Allie, so there we go.

We've got it. All right. The first one is observation. I know if you have been listening to this podcast for any amount of time, you're going to be absolutely shocked to hear that. We think being able to read body language is really important. I know, I know. Take a moment to get over the shock of that revelation.

But yeah. Uh. Being able to effectively communicate with your learners. To me kind of a big deal. And body language is like any other language that you can know it on. A Rudi Rudi? Nope. Rudimentary is not a word. On a rudimentary level, like you can ask like, where's the bathroom? You can maybe order food on a menu.

Right? And, and I think a lot of people who have lived with pets for any amount of time have that level of, of body language skill. And then there's the, you know, I've been studying this language in college for a few years. I've got it all in my head. I know the theory. I can kind of sorta have conversations in practice, but all the native speakers are like, aren't you cute?

Your use of this language is so stilted, right? And I think that's where like, we stop as behavior professionals. We're like, we learned it, we learned the language. And that's where we stop. I think we should all be aiming for fluency. We should all be able to have really, um, detailed and nuanced conversations with our learners, listening to their detail and their nuance of their body language and what they're communicating.

And also, we should be highly aware of our own body language and what it is saying to our learners and how it's impacting them.

[00:06:50] Allie: And I wanna take that a step further. I was thinking about this this morning actually, as I was working on a presentation, I. Of we have, um, so a lot of times when we talk about observation, we're talking about body language, we're talking about the behavior that the animal is performing, and I think good observation I think it takes into account much more subtleness subtleties, more subtleties, whatever the correct grammar is here. Um. Then people realize. And so I was thinking about this with, uh, one of Osos behaviors that I was using as, as an example for this presentation and the behavior, which I've talked about on this podcast so frequently is digging in my raised garden beds, which y'all knock on wood.

I think I have finally found a system that keeps. Everything out there is only one thing that I don't understand, and that is what happened to my di

[00:07:55] Emily: That is awesome. Congratulations. That's quite the feat. I'm very proud of you. And also, sometimes plants just. Disappear. Like they just get absorbed into the environment. 

[00:08:08] Allie: No, it was very clearly bitten by something. Yeah, but like maybe bugs. 'cause I'm not gonna keep bugs out obviously,

[00:08:17] Emily: Yeah. And those little caterpillars can decimate a plant. They just eat everything. Yeah.

[00:08:22] Allie: right.

Yeah. So I'm, I'm not sure, but it's, it's not, it's not dill anymore. It's just this one sad little dying stick in the ground at this point. Any les? So. I was thinking about this behavior and I have thought, a disproportionate amount of the, about this behavior. In relation to the wellbeing and welfare of both mine and osos life. There are a lot of other things that I could be thinking about that would probably be better for me to be thinking about.

And also, I don't know, this is the one that my brain is stuck on, I think probably because I've been trying to solve it for five years. So there we go. Um, but one of the things that I, I realized. Is when we're looking at reasons behind behavior and trying to use our observations to correctly interpret a behavior or as correctly as we can possibly get.

I don't get to ask Oso, which is true. I think we ignore the, the subtleties a lot and so. There are two primary reasons that I think he digs in my raised garden bed, knock on wood, not anymore. He does dig in other areas of the yard and that's fine with me. Just don't destroy my vegetables. Uh, but one is that I think it's a cooler space for him.

The second is it could be a comfier space for him. And let's be real. It could be both. I don't know. Again, I don't actually get to ask him, but as I'm looking for solutions, I have to look at. Comfort versus temperature, especially when we're looking at outdoor options. A lot of times it's a versus instead of an an and question because big comfy things that he chooses inside are really, really hot outside. And one of the things that I've noticed is I've been paying attention to. How he lies in the hole and very specifically, he will, he will dig this part that's a little bit deeper and put his chest in that little deeper part, and then there's like a little mound above that that he can rest his head on. And I've been watching this again for years, and so I, I have a pretty good understanding of the behavior. It's pretty common that he will dig a very specific hole and lay in it so that his chest is in the deepest part, and then his head is resting on like a little mound of dirt. And so that, and, and as then I look at other things, I'm like, oh, when he bunches up his blanket. Also, his chest is in a little bit of a, of a depression and his, his head is up. And y'all. He is a very deep chested boy, and so I'm like, I think part of this is actually a comfort thing instead of of coolness, which also explains why he's more likely to dig in very loose, fluffy dirt. I don't have this problem in the more compacted dirt areas of my yard.

He does not do this behavior in any of those areas. Only in the fluffy dirt areas. And that's something that, um, again, very, very subtle and gives me a really big insight to the behavior. So as Emily was talking about, like the environment and how it's impacting the learners and, and all of that, it's not just about their body language, their behavior, our body language, it's also what are the similarities or differences in the environment that might be contributing to this behavior? Like I said, fluffy dirt versus compact dirt makes a huge difference in osos digging and lying in a shallow pit behavior. and. A, I think a lot of times we miss those subtleties in the, about the environment. We think of the big environment things.

[00:12:26] Emily: Yeah, hard agree. first of all, I just need to say that. Also is making his own boob pillows. And that's the cutest thing of my whole life because I also needed something for spinal and neck alignment when I sleep, because I often end up on my tummy when I'm sleeping. And I have biggins and I discovered these boob pillows that are made for people with bigs and I, and it's like the same thing, like the pillow has a depression for your boobs and then like this raised part to support your neck. So like it is for real, like osos making himself a boob pillow and that's amazing. And I am so proud of him for paying attention to his spinal and neck alignment.

I mean, the neck is part of the spine for his spinal alignment and um, that's so cute and I love it and I'm here for it. So making his own boob pillows amazing. But secondly, yes, absolutely hard agree with you. Like, a lot of times when we only focus on the animal's body language, that can lead us to looking for the explanation for the behavior in the learner.

Instead of looking for the explanation for the behavior and the interaction between the learner and their environment. So good observation skills isn't just fluency at the language of the species that you're working with. Good observation skills also includes being able to look at that behavior and context and understand.

What's going on in the environment that is contributing to the behavior. 'cause behavior is a conversation, it's a conversation between two learners. It's a conversation between a learner and an environment. So all of that is included. You get that call in response effect, not just from each other, but also from the environment.

And I, I can't tell you how important that is and also how underutilized that is because. There have been so many times when even with behavior professionals, I'll be asking them like, what's causing this behavior? And people are looking for this like in external or, sorry, no internal explanation from the learner.

And it's like, no, dude, look at what the environment is doing. They're responding to their environment, their behavior makes sense in context. Right. and I think that is, uh. Really important thing when we're thinking about not just our pets, but also like other people and also wildlife. Like, I think a lot of us think that like a lot of wild animals are just mindless killing machines.

And I'm not saying go try to be BFFs with a bear. You're not snow white. Don't do it. but the reason I'm, I'm saying that is because a lot of us, our. Knee jerk response to wild animals is violence because we assume that they are violent. So the best defense is a good offense and that can get us and our environment and the animals in it into more trouble than if we just understand that they're all learners and they're all responding to their environment.

That's my little PSA about wildlife. We can move on. We don't need to make this episode about wild animals. I just had to say it.

[00:15:32] Allie: I think this brings us to our next soft skill because I think to really and truly have great observation skills, you first have to have curiosity. I suppose we could have flipped those, but it's fine. We've already, uh, established words are hard. Um,

you have to have curiosity and. Before we get into like what that can, can look like as far as observing our learners, I want to make it really clear that curiosity doesn't just mean like asking like, why is this happening or Uhhuh, that's interesting. I want to know more. It also means understanding that you are making. Hypotheses you are making guesses and that you are going to be wrong and it's okay to be wrong. I think that's a really important part of that curiosity skillset or that curiosity soft skill is being okay with being wrong, or else you don't go far enough. Down the curiosity rabbit hole as it were. 

So that's my PSA. Um, so what could this look like? We, it can look like asking questions like first just why is my learner behaving in this way and what is their behavior communicating? Emily just talked about behavior is communication, so we can look at what does it actually communicate and understanding that all behavior is. is. a form of communication, and so it's not that. The answer is not just because there is a reason behind it, whether or not we get to observe what the reason is is a different story, but there is a reason behind it. And so first getting curious of just like, huh, that's weird. Why? Why, Oso? Will you only dig in my raised garden beds and not the dirt right next to it, which I don't care about. The answer is compaction. It's almost like you have raised garden bed so that you have fluffy non-comp, compacted soil, but then your dog is like, awesome. Thank you for making this really nice bedding space for me five years y'all?

[00:17:48] Emily: Are you saying it took five years to figure out how to protect the raised beds from Oso? Okay. Uh, question. So do you provide him with fluffy soil outside of the raised beds so he can still do his thing? Or is there another part of your yard that also has fluffy soil? How does that, where does he dig now that he can't dig in the raised beds?

[00:18:09] Allie: next to the compost bins, there is a, there is a good oso hole that is just hanging out there. It's less compacted. Um, he also. The original oso hole before the raised beds even existed is next to the house, which this poor lavender plant is just trying to live. And oso is like breath. No. The hard thing with that is he chooses that oso hole when it's raining because there's rain cover, and that is much harder to replicate in my current. Spaces. So most of the is not Oso approved except for those two places.

[00:18:51] Emily: But he's got spaces to, to make his little boob pillow, so he's good.

[00:18:55] Allie: he has spaces and also I'm working in the raised beds and he likes to be where I am. So like there's also a social element to it. Like I said, I've thought a lot about this behavior. 

[00:19:10] Emily: I'm, I'm curious. Because I'm sure somebody else listening to this will be like, oh my gosh, how did you do that? So I'm asking on behalf of people who might be listening and being like, I also need my dog to get outta my raised beds. You can, you can help others.

[00:19:25] Allie: Yeah, I, um, I, I took a thing that I've seen in agriculture for pest control, and I added a. Opposable thumbs element to it. So I built these big, uh, PVC structures that I put bird netting over. And because the bird netting wasn't the right thing, I had to weave it together with fishing line as a whole thing. Um, and so that's really common for like keeping birds out and, and, uh. No, that's really common for keeping birds out of things. And also they were the least problematic for my raised beds. They're problematic elsewhere and also it's fine. What was I saying? Oh, and then at the bottom I installed Velcro so that the netting velcros to the wood of the bed itself, and you need thumbs to open that. Now I will say that the Velcro, okay, let me, before I say this. Let me remind y'all. I have a 90 pound dog. I have a 90 pound dog who I have taught over the years how to problem solve, how to forage. How to do all of the things that he needs to do to figure out how to get into my raised beds, regardless of what I tried. So the reason it's taken so many years is because I would try a thing for a season, it would not, I, we would figure out how it failed and then I would get to try again the next season. Uh, and I wouldn't know how it would fail until I would see how Oso interacted with it, because. I taught my dog problem solving skills. And, um, this is not, this is not to say, don't do that. This is, just understand what you're doing by doing that. he did get into one of the beds. I think I fixed the pro and the way he did it, he's such a jerk. He pushed hard enough against the netting that the Velcro. Tore off of the wood I added a lot more screws to the Velcro and washers and uh, and I'm, and that seems to have worked so far. I am, I'm hedging my bets, y'all because tomato, it's not tomato season yet, and the biggest reason that Oso likes to go into the raised beds, aside from digging his little holes is eating the tomatoes.

So there is so far not something that is super, super enticing. That will cause him to go in. He did, I think, rip a hole in the netting because he tried to grab a cabbage leaf through the netting and like tore a hole as he was like trying to get the cabbage leaf. But I stitched that up.

[00:22:33] Emily: So thank you for sharing that for our listeners. but I'm also gonna like read between the lines here because like you did a lot of problem solving for how to protect the. Garden from Oso. Kind of also sidebar, I have to say that like to your point, I used to tell clients when I worked with clients privately, like teaching your animals how to be good problem solvers doesn't create more problems for you.

It just changes what problems you're gonna have to solve yourself. even though we're talking about the ways in which Oso being an excellent problem solver, has, has required Allie to be also an excellent problem solver. I just wanna underscore what Allie said about like, we still advocate for that because not giving your animals problem solving skills. Creates a whole different set of problems. It's not, it's not more labor, it's just different kinds of labor. So, okay. That was my sidebar. I'm coming back to focus. The thing that I think is really important is not just that you were trying to figure out a management strategy to protect your garden from Oso, but also you had already identified other ways that Oso can meet his boob pillow needs.

So. That's another key component. And that goes really into both the observation and the curiosity because you were, you didn't internalize like Osos just, I mean, you did call him a jerk, but we, we all know that that's a term of endearment because he is a jerk and so is Miley. And most animals are jerks and most people are jerks.

And that's a term of endearment. We like jerks here at Pet Harmony. Um, you're not internalizing the behavior like Osos just stubborn, and he's really trying to get into my garden because he wants to eat all my food before me. You identified that there were multiple reinforcers for him for that behavior, and you're making sure that he has alternative ways to get that reinforcement and to meet his, um, temperature needs.

You're making sure that he's got access to those reinforcers and those ways to meet his temperature needs. And obviously making sure he has lots of forging opportunities, which the boy does trust me all. Um, and I think that that really, uh, what, what you were just talking about with oso embodies both the observational skills of, of acknowledging his.

How the environment, is impacting his behavior. If it's hot, he's going to want to dig to cool down, right? And also that curiosity of, what is he getting out of this? How is he getting what he wants from this exchange, this interaction, these, these set of behaviors and what can we do to prevent the behaviors from happening here in the context of my race beds, but make sure they can happen somewhere else where he can still get all the things that he wants to get right.

So I think that is. the, a really good, like beautiful demonstration of those first two soft skills that we were talking about. And also I think that also really, kind of beautifully segues into the third soft skill, which is flexibility because you were able to say, okay, ideally he wouldn't be digging at all.

But I'm gonna sacrifice this LA Lavender plant. Like it's okay for him. I can pivot and I can let him, um. Do what he needs to do in this part of my yard because it's minimal impact for me. This is something that I can act, I'm okay with. I've got other lavender plants. Um, I have an entire purple bed, which is amazing and killer 'cause I'm an amazing gardener and my yard is literal paradise.

so it's okay for. Also to, to designate this one small part of my yard as his cooling down boob pillow place, right? so flexibility. When we're talking about flexibility, we're really talking about the ability to set aside your own agenda and your own goals to better meet the needs of your learners.

And that does not mean sacrificing your needs and your goals. Ally still met her own needs and met her own goals, but she set aside her need to do that in the exact way that she had initially envisioned it. So I guess set aside isn't maybe the best way to put that, but, um, reroute your own needs and your own goals and your own agendas, to make sure that everybody's needs are being met, not just yours.

Right. So that's part of what we mean when we're talking about flexibility. Is the ability to pivot based on what you are observing and based on the, um, your like, curiosity, exploration of what's going on with this learner in this environment and how can we help them, and. You're able to go, okay, so plan A is not a viable strategy for meeting everybody's needs.

I can see now that it's o that in this, in this plan, it's a zero sum game. Like either he wins or I win. so instead of one of us have to having to lose everything, let's pivot to plan B where we both get to win, where it's a non-zero sum game and everybody's needs can be met. That involves, uh, an a willingness and an ability to do trial and eval instead of being like, well, I tried that, it didn't work, or this didn't work, so I'm a failure, or, this didn't work, so my animal is a monster.

Um, or This didn't work so clearly. My pet needs, more aversives, more corrections, more control. I need to like remove their agency or their freedom. what it means is, uh, we need to pivot to find another strategy that works for all of us, right? And I think it also means the, uh, that's not, that's not the direction I wanted to go with that sentence.

And I think flexibility also implies the ability to simplify and pair down. Based on learner feedback, because in my head, when you were talking about how he's like really fixated on getting into your raised bets.

In my mind, I was like, oh, you can make Oso his own raised bed. And that certainly would have been an option, but you were like, or I can just let him dig in this part of the yard where he is already digging and it doesn't impact me as much. And I'm like, that's a way simpler strategy than building an entirely separate raised bed for Oso.

Right. So like. That, that flexibility of like, why would I co construct this entire new solution when a solution already exists in the environment? That I think is part of flexibility too. I mean, fight me, like, tell me if you think I'm wrong, but I think that that's part of it.

[00:28:55] Allie: No, I do think that's part of it is, is I think flexibility and creativity have to go hand in hand. If you don't have creativity, it'll be hard for you to come up with ideas, to be flexible, even if you want to be flexible. So I, I think that is absolutely true. And to your point, we have, he has the one area that I am okay with him. And his little sir hole is what we call them, because he is Vaser is his nickname. 'cause nicknames and real names never over or rarely overlap for most people in my experience with their pets. Um, there is one situation in which, or no, there are two situations in which that particular sur hole doesn't meet all of the needs. And so. For that particular situation, I could go back to the drawing board. It's not gonna look like building him an entirely new raised bed for him, for logistical reasons more than anything else. Uh, but. I did discover that hay is a suitable replacement for him, for his fluffy dirt needs. And so we are going to be looking more into that. Uh, right now we're trialing a cooling mat for him and he likes his cooling mat.

[00:30:15] Emily: Yeah, I love those like trial and eval processes of does, does hay work for you? Does a cooling mat work for you? And I think I wanna say something about creativity because. I can guarantee you that there are some people listening to this who are like, I'm not a creative person, and I wanna say that's not true.

Creativity is. A, a natural state for humans. And that said, creativity in particular contexts comes from a depth of knowledge and experience in that context. And so if you feel like you're not creative enough to come up with a solution like that. don't internalize that. Recognize that it's the interplay between you and your environment and that you this, in this context, you don't have enough information and learning history to come up with new options.

And that's what behavior professionals are for. Because we're literally here to lend you our creativity, our our knowledge and experience. where we are able to be creative 'cause we have more, More of learning history in this context, right? But also, if you're really good at observation, you can hack your way through a lot of creativity because for example.

Ally didn't have to come up with a creative solution for osos uh, digging needs. She just observed that he was already digging in a place that was acceptable for her. So, there it's a little bit of a balancing act of like recognize when you don't have the knowledge and experience to be creative in this particular context.

And you need professional help for that. And also, uh, really good observational skills. Can help you bypass some of that knowledge and experience by just observing what your learner's already doing and being like, that works. That's a thing. Right? so, so I just had to say that because I, I know, I know how many people I know because people tell me how many people listen to us and they're like, I can't do that.

And I'm like, I know it's okay. It, I don't expect you to be a behavior professional because you're not. Just like I don't expect myself to be really smart at medical troubleshooting because I am not a doctor. same Z for you. Right. So that's the thing I have to say that.

[00:32:25] Allie: And if you're like, but I am a behavior professional. Remember we've said a million times on this podcast only a slight hyperbole with that number that you can't be your own behavior consultant. So I have talked to Emily about O'S behavior of digging in the past, and she is one of the people who is like, it sounds like Fluffy dirt is where it's at.

And I was like, Hmm, it is. Okay. So that brings us to our last soft skill that we're going to talk about today, and that is empathy and again, Shock Shock and awe that we included empathy in one of these soft skills. And this might be one where you're like, is empathy actually a skill?

I, maybe, I thought it was a character trait or something like that. Um, I think this one is, is a really interesting one because yes, empathy is a skill that can be learned. I have a personal learning history that says that I am able to learn and grow and, uh, create empathy for certain situations that I did not have empathy in previously. And I also want to acknowledge that like there is an actual brain mechanism thing in there. And I, and that, that is literally the extent of my knowledge about that. That like there are people who are, uh, born not feeling, not being able to feel empathy, and that's like a brain thing and not a skill thing. So. 

[00:33:59] Emily: Yeah, that's the level at which we're qualified to talk about that. It's, it's a brain, brain mechanism thing.

[00:34:04] Allie: Right. so I do wanna acknowledge that, that like kernels of truth there of like, character trait versus skill. Okay. But we are talking about empathy as a skill because the vast majority of people are born with the capability to feel empathy and therefore are able to. Grow that skill. Okay. I think one of the things that we all, maybe not we all, maybe those of us in the United States going through a public school system, at least learn. As children is the golden rule of treat others as you would like to be treated. I actually want to amend this because I think empathy is really more about treat others the way that they would like to be treated more than it is about the way that you would like to be treated. Uh, there are things that I super don't care about and also can recognize that somebody else really cares about it. And it's like, sure, I can, I can show caring for you for that particular thing, even if it doesn't, even if I have different feelings about it. That was a very vague way of putting it, but that's the extent I'm willing to put. Out in the world. and that lends itself to a discussion, a, about intellectual humility and realizing that you have no idea what someone else's experience feels like and what they're going through. And that can be true, even if it seems like you might have a similar experience. You are not that individual.

You do not have their same body chemistry, learning, history, environment, experience as they do in that particular moment, which means that you truly don't know what somebody is going through. And that for me. Helps a lot with that empathy piece on the human side of things, I, I think like many animal people, it's easier to have empathy for our non-human animals than our human animals. Uh, we hold one species at, uh, more rigorous expectation than another species. Um, but that for me really helps of like, yeah, I actually don't know what that person is going through. And so let's treat them with kindness and compassion and empathy. And that doesn't mean not holding boundaries. Those are completely separate things.

You can treat somebody with kindness, compassion, and empathy, and hold boundaries, injuries. Just have to say that 

[00:36:42] Emily: Yeah, and I think one thing we talk a lot about with our clients is that.

If you, if this is true for humans, that you have no idea what they're experiencing, what they're feeling, what their life has been like, what they're going through that is amplified for non-humans because they're entirely different species with entirely different sensory, experiences and entirely different, natural histories, right?

And so I think. That intellectual humility and being aware that like you don't know what their experience like is amplified when we're working with other species. and so part of that is asking yourself like, do you actually know what you're expecting of your learners? On one hand that can look like, have you gone through it?

Have you lived it? Is it even reasonable? And I think those questions are really important to ask yourself for clients like, I think everybody who works with maladaptive behaviors should live with animals with maladaptive behaviors so that you know what it's like to have an animal like that in your home.

And you know, whether or not what you're asking a client to do is something that. You would yourself be willing to do. And also that said, like Allie was talking about some people like and are capable of and want to do more than you can. So it's not about you. But if at a baseline, if you know that you're asking somebody to do something that you wouldn't do, make really super sure that your client is actually cool with it, is actually good.

So like I had a client who, when I worked with them, when I met them. They were spending 10 hours a day taking care of their dog, and we were able to get that down to four hours a day, which. I would never spend four hours a day training my dogs, any of my animals. That would not happen. Um, that is super unrealistic for me.

But for them, not only were they willing to do it, they were relieved because it was six hours less than what they had been doing. So, um, it's not all about you, but you can just at a baseline start with Yellow flag. If I'm asking a client to do something that I would hate. Then I need to make extra, extra sure that they're okay with it.

But then also we can a little bit apply that to animals as well. Um, so I wanna say that like, um, this does not mean, you know. People have, there's those memes on the internet. They're like, if you're cold, they're cold, let them in. That's just not true. Like that's not what empathy looks like. Huskies love spending time in the snow.

Good luck trying to get them to come inside. So, so things like that. It's not about mapping your needs and your preferences onto a different species. But it is about, if I were in this situation where I was living with discomfort, would I seek comfort? And the answer is yes. Right? So that's the level at which, um, we're talking about empathy being a useful thing.

It's not about trying to map your own experiences onto another learner. It's about. Understanding the position that they're in and figuring out what they need to, um, have their needs met and be better supported. Right. And I'm gonna give you an example. I'm going to out myself. Um, for the first time ever, Miley made me cry this weekend and I.

I knew that it was gonna happen at some point because I knew that I was bringing a puppy into my home and I was bringing a baji puppy into my home, and I was bringing a baji puppy into my home that I had watched since birth be a wrecking ball, which is why her name is Miley. So I knew it was coming and I knew that her puppy hood had been way too easy up to this point. And then over the weekend I walked outside. I discovered that she had destroyed my Dawn Redwood Bonsai and I cried hot tears of grief and rage, and I believe I called her a monster.

I believe I might have actually said FU you little monster. I was devastated that she destroyed my Bonsai. Um. And I was so mad. I was so mad. And then I was like, okay, woo. This moment needs empathy because she's six months old and from her perspective, she's allowed to dig in our yard and she likes to, I give her wood to chew.

Like some of her chewies are driftwood and coffee wood. So from her little puppy logic perspective. It was just another chewy in soft dirt that she could dig up and I leave things around the house for her to find and explore and destroy. And so, um, from her point of view, she was following all the rules and she was just.

Living her best life. And that was my bad for having my bonsai on the ground in bags of loose dirt and expecting her to be able to differentiate between the sticks that really mattered to me and the sticks that I intentionally wanted her to chew up. And as soon as I was able to do that little empathy exercise, I shook it off.

I was like, okay, I can start over. I can buy another Don Redwood Sapling for like $8. It's not that big of a deal. And now I need know that I need to keep my other bonsai up off the ground. I'm gonna get a little table and put it in the backyard and put my other bonsai on the table. And I am gonna let her keep the bag that the Don Redwood had been in.

And I'm, I broke off a bunch of sticks from one of our trees is very, very old and it has like a dead part of it and we can't do anything about it. 'cause technically the tree is on the neighbor's side of the fence. So I was like, cool, I'm just gonna break off several of the, the dead branches or dead little sticks, the twigs from the tree.

I'm going to bury them in. The soil of the tree bag that the Don Redwood had been in. I'll leave this one on the ground for her so she can dig up sticks and chew on them. And I'm going to just get a new Redwood baby and put it on the table. I'll have a bon's eye table. And so like it helped me work through, um, my very real grief and rage that she ate my Dawn Redwood Bonsai.

Um. And, and it gave me empathy for her and I was able to come up with a solution for her pretty quickly. Um, that didn't involve anything really complicated. I just worked with what I had in the yard and um, and then I felt okay about it and we were able to like, move on with our day and I was immediately able to find joy in my adorable little puppy again.

So. Um, so that's an example of how empathy is a really important soft skill because nobody's a saint. We're not expecting anybody to live with another sentient being and never get frustrated or disappointed or tired or mad. Um, but empathy helps both us and them because it helps us work through it and come out the other side in a way that supports everybody's needs.

Um, instead of. Um, deteriorating the relationship, holding a lot of resentment, um, getting into this kind of combative cycle of like having a relationship dynamic that's basically a war of the wills, all of that stuff that can happen in situations like that.

[00:44:34] Allie: I am so sorry about your Bonsai. That's really sad.

[00:44:37] Emily: Thanks. Yeah. My Don Redwood was so beautiful. All my bonds are beautiful, but I, the Don Redwood was my favorite, so of course that's the one she destroyed. But I'll get a new sapling. They're only $8. It'll be fine. I'll just start over. 

[00:44:48] Allie: Such is life. Such as life. All right. I think that's our episode today. There are likely other soft skills. Again, whatever that definition means, it's unclear. There are likely other soft skills, but these are the ones that we use pretty much every single day with every single case, including our own dogs, clearly. And uh, and again, those are. Observation, curiosity, flexibility, and empathy.

 I hope you enjoy today's episode and if there's someone in your life who also needs to hear this, be sure to text it to them right now. If you're a pet parent looking for more tips on enrichment, behavior modification, and finding harmony with your pet, you can find us on Facebook and Instagram at Pet Harmony training. If you're a behavior or training professional dedicated to enrichment for yourself, your clients, and their pets, check us out on TikTok and Instagram at Pet Harmony Pro.

As always, links to everything we discussed in this episode are in the show notes. Thank you to Ellen Yoakum for editing this episode and making us sound good. Our intro music is from Penguin Music on Pixa Bay. Please rate, review, and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. That helps more pet lovers and professionals find us so they can bring enrichment into their world too.

Thank you for listening, and here's to harmony.

Here's a little bonus enrichment tip to thank you for listening to this episode, y'all, you heard me mention it. Cooling mats are a thing and they are awesome. I found one that changes colors when it gets hotter, and the cool thing about that is then I can tell like, okay, it's, it's taking osos heat. I this morning he was standing on it and then he got off and his four little footy prints were there in a different color, which is super, super cute. But the really nice thing about that is it tells me when it's too hot to use it outside when it hits about 90 degrees. The cooling mat doesn't work any anymore, and it tells me that because it's not the color that it should be.